Show notes

00:02 Sounds from the film Where is Anne Frank?

00:15 Shaina Hammerman

01:16 Amir Eshel

This week we mark two historical occasions. Three days ago, January 27th, we marked the 80th anniversary of the entrance of the Russian army into Auschwitz-Birkenau, the liberation of Auschwitz-Birkenau, 80 years ago. And today, January 30th, today, 92 years ago, Hitler took over power in Berlin. Another anniversary. Both fall on this week.

Let's start with the premise of the book, Thomas, a biography of the diary. Let's take this seriously for a moment, this premise. And maybe we'll start by you telling us a little bit about the birth moment of this diary. How did it come to be? How was the child born?

03:29 Thomas Sparr

Thank you first, dear Amir, ladies and gentlemen. I'm very grateful to be again in Stanford. It's my fourth or fifth time to be here and it's a real privilege.

Anne had been the daughter of a German Jewish family. And the whole family, father, mother, and her sister, Margot, she, they escaped from the deportation. They got already the order to come to a certain place and she went to this place, to this hidden place. And Anne continued to write. She wrote every day. Every day, every moment. And she described the whole life, the whole life of hidden people. Hidden people means they couldn't go out. There'd be no escape, no fresh air. They could open sometimes the window in the night. And then they were joined by other people. Eight people lived in a very, very small room. You can right now see in New York a reproduction of this hidden place of this annex, one-to-one. It's extremely small. [She] continued to write and the others remarked it. And she was taught, she got lessons. She lived her own life, a life of fantasy.

And, in August, 44, this annex, this hidden place was discovered by the SS, by the Gestapo. And the Germans came and arrested the whole family and the other hidden people. And they tried to find hidden things, you know, money or treasures. And they discovered only papers. So they throw the papers all over the apartment, the small apartment, and they deported the people, the eight people. And in the same evening, Miep van Gies, one of the helpers, as we have to say, those who helped the family to get hidden, she came to this apartment, to this hidden place, and she collected the papers because she knew that this was something which belonged to the girl, to Anne, so much. And the only treasure was saved by a chance that she collected it. And as you probably know, the family got deported to Auschwitz via Westerbork and only the father survived.

And when the father came, Otto Frank, came back to Amsterdam in summer of He knew that his wife had been already murdered, but he didn't know about the two girls. It came out after weeks that also the girls were killed or found dead in Bergen-Belsen and another concentration camp.

9:51 Eshel

So when the diary first appears in print, is it immediately recognized for what it later became, what it is today?

10:01 Sparr

totally destroyed country, but not only physically destroyed, but also morally, intellectually. There had been 12 years of missing subjects, discussions, sciences, humanities, not developing. After this interruption, this founding of the publishing house, this only publishing house is so interesting, came out that was the right place.

On the other hand, we have to say that Otto Frank the father, who I think had been the hero of the whole publication story, a real hero, he had been a master of public relation. When the Dutch edition came out, he sent the book to the old queen Wilhelmina, to her daughter Juliana, and to the crown princess Beatrice, the ancient queen. And he knew that by this sending, offering the book, that this is a process of getting attention, drawing attention to the book.

And until now, the Dutch kings and queens are in a certain way obliged to take care of Anne Frank's diary, which is very interesting. Later, he contacted Eleanor Roosevelt. He asked for a foreword. He contacted the German president Theodor Heuss. So he had really been a master of public relation in a very interesting way.

13:59 Eshel

In your judgment, Thomas, and you studied the materials very extensively, you sat in the archive and had access to all the materials. So in your assessment, was it Otto Frank's PR genius that made the diary what it is? Or were there other factors in play that made this document to what it became later, an international...

14:27 Sparr

First of all, I would say it was less the book than the figure of Anne Frank, who became the icon until today. We think about the young girl and then we think of the diary. He kept on that we have to read the diary. He always mentioned read, read, read and don't have fantasies about my daughter. But the people had fantasies. And so I think that he was a bit skeptic about the development of this icon. But this book became famous by chances. It wasn't structured. No success of a book is ever structured that you can foresee, that you can plan. This is what we can learn with the diary of Anne Frank. We can understand it like Kierkegaard says, we are publishing forwards, but we are understanding backwards. “Wir leben vorwärts,aber wir verstehen das Leben rückwarts.” And so I think it came out that this diary doesn't become famous only as a book, but by the means of a play. And the play took place at the Broadway in October of ‘55 the Colt Theatre. There had been a play, Diary of Anne Frank. And suddenly people were interested. They saw it and it was an enormous success in the United States and one year later in Europe and Germany as well. And then the people were enthusiastic about the book. They wanted to read it. And by chance at that time, 55, 56, 57, there had been a huge process in the publication of pocketbooks. They became faster. And that supported the effect of the reception. Then people read it more and more and millions of readers found it. And then there had been an international reception, which is totally unknown for the 50s, of a Dutch book or a European book. I couldn't tell you any other book which had such a success in the 50s. Later, that is different. And especially, a key role is playing in the United States, the reception in the United States, but all over the world. It was read in Japan. We have a unique reception in Japan. We have an enormous reception also in South Africa in the later years, in the 90s.

Because Nelson Mandela read the book at Robben Island in his isolation. It was read by the 17 prisoners who were there. And then he is a great fighter for this book, for this diary. So the diary, there had been also claims that it was a forgery, that it was false, and huge debates, especially in Germany. But as a book, I would say it became a unique significance by the understanding, by their perception as a historical document. And I'm skeptical if it's really a historical document, but if it isn't, rather literature.

18:08 Eshel

So say more about this, Thomas, because the diary brings together both events and occurrences of daily life. It records daily life. It presents life as it was in hiding. But at the same time, it has elements also of literature, invented, created elements that become a part of it.

18:34 Sparr

When the father read for the first time the diary of his daughter, he was shocked about her description of himself, of his wife, Edith, her mother, of the sister, Margot, and of the other hidden people. And he tried to understand and he kept parts of the diary away because he didn't want to insult people or that those who didn't survive would be insulted or could feel insulted. So there is a lot of fantasy in this diary she is describing all day's life, the dangers, the pleasures, becoming of a young woman.

And at the same time she is thinking more, describing more. For instance, I wrote a chapter about her sister Margot. And Margot, she's describing, oh, it's not that interesting as a girl and she wants to become a nurse in Palestine and she's a bit boring, mother's darling, and so on. As sisters sometimes described the other sister. And it came out that Margot was totally different. She invented Margot.

And she invented also other figures. So we have to take into account that there is also a lot of fantasy. It is not a description one to one. Don't expect that. And that could explain, I'm not a specialist for theater, why the play was so significant. Because the play, the theater play, allows probably other aspects and this play, the real play. And she played also, ein ernster spielen. It's a sincere play.

20:46 Eshel

Going back Thomas to the role the father played, you describe beautifully in the book that we have actually four versions of the diary, four different versions or four steps. So maybe you say a little bit something about this.

21:05 Sparr

I mean when I wrote it down to tell you the truth, I got myself confused by that, but I'll do it. There is a version A that means what she what Anne wrote day by day. And then there is a version B when she wrote it again, when she transposed it and composed it newly. Then there is a version C. The version C is the edited version of the year 47. The first, you remember, in the Dutch publishing house…parts of which were taken away, a rather censored version. And that was the third version and that was re-edited. There had been so much accusations that the Dutch authorities decided that they have to make a state edition. So like an official state edition, bringing the versions together.

And then there came out a fourth version, is the version, D. A, B, C, D. And D means a newly composed, definitive version about everything Anne Frank wrote for the diary. Nothing was left. And it came out that this was a third longer this version had been a third longer.

I think Anne Frank had a certain self-apperception, she knew about her talent, she knew that she was a very gifted girl, and she wanted to leave something to work on that. Therefore, the version A and B. That is explainable by the fact that like each writer, she wrote several versions, at least two. And therefore, I think she felt a mission. But she had this, not only the self-apperception, but she is describing her life, her later life, unlived life, the future life as a writer, as a mother, as a wife, but especially as a writer.

25:54 Eshel

Thomas, say more about the hero, because, you know, there were over the years, various voices regarding Otto Frank. People accused him of editing out important parts of the diary, of using the diary sometimes even to become himself famous, even rich, things like that where he was accused of, he was accused straightforwardly of forgery…

26:28 Sparr

..of making money with that. This had been totally wrong and today we know that it's totally wrong. The book was sold, I don't know how many millions of copies. I think we have something like 40 or 30 million sold books. Sold books doesn't mean that it's only read. You know what I mean. And so he could have been a rich man, but he renounced and he kept the money. He called it the iron money. And he lived a very modest life.

There had been a lot of fights with him and the juridical accusations and a very ugly story, but it brought to the world the question, does the diary of Anne Frank…is a Jewish book or a non-Jewish book?

I wrote a chapter about the generation Anne Frank in the book. And it's very interesting that for a whole generation girls 16 years old who read 57, 58, the book. And I had a lot of conversations with older people. I went to a center for older people where my mother lived and then I asked them about their experience. And normally it had been their first experience with becoming known of German crimes and having no concept. I don't have to tell you this.

There had been no notion, no word for that. Shoah, Holocaust, it didn't exist. That made this book unique. When you are asking for the Gestalt of Jewishness, I would say the Jewishness of Anne Frank in a certain way, it's her fate. I would say it's the fate. Now that belongs to the Jews or to the non-Jews, which is a strange question. But Meyer Levin asked it. Cynthia Ozick asked it again. Philip Roth wrote a whole book about that. dealing with this question, The Ghostwriter, fantastic novel. When you have any chance, read it.

And so I think this Otto Frank, he had the authority of the father, he had the rights, but to have the rights doesn't mean that you are right. It's a difference. And he said, oh, it belongs, it's a book of the mankind. And all the money which came in from the honorarium, the sold copies, were brought to an Anne Frank Fond, which exists until today, based in Basel, where he lived for the last years of his life. They are fighting…this Fond, is fighting against antisemitism, racism, and each kind of violation of mankind human rights.

34:03 Eshel

Thomas, I want to ask you about your experience with a diary and with writing this book. You were born in Germany, grew up in Lübeck, became a literary critic, wrote several books. And how was it for you working on this particular book? What touched you, surprised you? How was it for you personally?

34:29 Sparr

It was a new experience, but because it was the first book which I wrote in charge. I mean, I was charged with it. I didn't choose it. You can choose to be charged, you know, I chose the charge and [Eshel interjects “commissioned”] commissioned. You say, but I felt charged. And then the Anne Frank Fond asked me to write it. And that was a new experience because when you are writing something and you are commissioned by such a firm or by a university whatsoever, you have to fulfill the expectations of others and not your own, not only your own. There is always, that means there are some conflicts which do not happen if you are writing your own book, if you are discovering, you're discovering your own subject. And that was a new and a good experience.

35:38 Eshel

Good in which way? If I may push you on this, as we say, you know, in America, if I can push you on this.

35:50 Sparr

I was well paid. Really, that was an experience. I got invitations to discuss with people in Germany, also in other countries. I went to school classes and that was also new experience. How do children of 13, 14, 15 years now judge this book? To learn as an older man something from younger people, that was also a wonderful experience which I made. And this is also connected, you know [that] she was a very gifted girl. But she was gifted as a writer. She saw herself very early as a writer, but she didn't get the chance to become a writer, but she got the chance and that was fulfilled by the father and by all the readers, I would say. I think this is enough of experience. A lot. A lot. A lot.

37:16 Eshel

So as a part of this podcast series of the Taube Center for Jewish Studies, we ask our guests to offer a quote from a Jewish source, a Jewish writer or a Jewish source you're familiar with, something for us to take with us from your work and from this event. What would your quote be?

37:40 Sparr

I was prepared. If you would allow me to say it first in German. It's from Paul Celan, the great Jewish poet. “Das Jüdische ist eine Gestalt des Menschlichen." Jewishness is a form of humanity, humankind. You have lot of possibilities to translate it accurately.

38:13 Eshel

And it goes back to the question, is Anne Frank Jewish or is the diary a Jewish book?

38:18 Sparr

Exactly that. That's exactly the answer. Es ist eine Gestalt, das jüdische Mädchen ist eine Gestal, des Menschlichen.

38:28 Eshel

So the diary you see as an expression of being Jewish, as being a part of humanity.

38:36 Sparr

Yeah, I would say so. She's keeping lessons for everyone, for each of us.

38:47 Eshel

Wonderful. Thank you for that. Let's please thank Thomas Sparr for this fascinating discussion.

38:58 Hammerman

Today's episode was produced by me, Shaina Hammerman, along with Iva Klemm and Nilodar Saraj. Sound designed by Romi Chicorean. Original music is by Jeremiah Lockwood. Cite and Sound is a production of the Taube Center for Jewish Studies at Stanford.