In this episode of "Push to Be More," host Matt Edmundson engages with Arshad Hisham, a dynamic entrepreneur and CEO of inGen Dynamics. Arshad shares his journey from overcoming a catastrophic business failure to building a successful company with an $80 million revenue pipeline. The conversation explores the rapid evolution of AI and robotics, highlighting both the exciting potential and the societal challenges they present. Arshad discusses the importance of resilience, risk-taking, and reframing failure as a learning opportunity. He also emphasises the value of gratitude and introspection in maintaining contentment and purpose. This insightful dialogue offers a blend of personal anecdotes and professional insights, making it a must-listen for aspiring entrepreneurs and tech enthusiasts.

Key Takeaways:

1. Embrace Failure as a Learning Opportunity: Arshad highlights the importance of viewing failures not as personal shortcomings but as character-building experiences. He stresses that setbacks are often due to external factors beyond one's control and advises detaching oneself from the failure to learn and grow from it. This perspective helps in maintaining resilience and continuing to pursue one's goals despite challenges.

2. Cultivate Mental Resilience and Adaptability: Arshad discusses the significance of mental exercises, such as meditation and introspection, to build resilience. He suggests that just as physical exercise is essential for the body, mental exercises are crucial for the mind. This includes reframing situations positively and understanding that personal growth often comes from overcoming adversity.

3. Live with Gratitude and Without Expectations: Arshad advocates for starting each day with gratitude, acknowledging the positive aspects of life rather than focusing on what is lacking. He also advises against having expectations from others, as this can lead to disappointment and negative emotions. By doing so, one can maintain a sense of freedom and contentment, focusing on personal growth and contribution rather than external validation.

If this episode of Push to be More piqued your interest make sure to keep up to date with everything we do here on the Push to be More Podcast.

Well, hello and welcome back to Push to Be More. My name is Matt Edmondson and it is great to be with you as we jump into another journey and look at what really fuels life. So today I'm excited to be chatting with Arshad his from Engine Dynamics. We're going to be diving into his unique life experiences, the hurdles he's had to push through, the way he recharges his batteries, and what does more look like? Push to be and more. That's what we're getting into now. Don't forget, you can find all the detailed show notes. The complete transcript of our conversation are available on our website@pushtobemore.com push to be more.com all one word. You'll find us there. But before we get into the conversation, let me just give a quick shout out to Pod Junction, who sponsor this show. Now, if you're a regular to the show, you'll know this because Pod Junction has sponsored every episode of this podcast so far. But basically, Pod Junction is all about helping you set up and run your own podcast. Why would you want to do that? Well, if I'm totally frank and honest with you, my own personal marketing experience, podcasting is sensational. It really is. It's like nothing else I've seen. There's paid ads, there's paid media we use, there's a lot in E commerce, there's email marketing. There's all these things which are true and tried and tested and wonderful. But podcasting is something else, let me tell you. So if you want to understand more, if you want to find out more about why you should host a podcast, if you're in business, if you're a leader, if you're an entrepreneur, I really recommend you look into it genuinely because it's going to open doors, it's going to create networks, it's going to introduce you to people that you've never met before and you'll have some phenomenal conversations along the way. So check out more about that@podjunction.com if you want to know more about that. I even host a podcast with Sadaf, who heads up podjunction. She produces this show. Shaddaff and I do this podcast called Pod Junction, ironically, where we talk about how to use podcasting to grow your business. So if you've not had enough of my voice, check out that podcast as well. Podjunction. It's a great intro into it all. So do find us on there. Love to see you. Now, let's talk about Arshat. He is a powerhouse entrepreneur and CEO who turns big ideas into multimillion dollar ventures and even sells them to billion dollar giants. Love this. He's got a background spanning business engineering and an MBA. He founded InGen Dynamics, building an $80 million revenue pipeline and earning a silver Edison Award along the way. From advising fast rising AI startups to designing cutting edge robotics, Arshad's impact is felt globally with features in Fortune, mit, IEE and asm. And I mean, there's lots going on, isn't there? Ashad, welcome to the show, man. Great to. Sorry, Ashad. Arshad, it's great to have you on the show, man. How are we doing today?

All good, Matt. Pleasure to be on the show and you know, all good and happy to dive into the show headlong. So look forward and thank you for the. Thank you for the kind words.

Well, it's all true. So they're kind words, but true. Ayesha, listen, let me ask you a question, right, let's jump straight into it because I always like to ask this of every guest we have on the show. I think it's a really great question. I genuinely do. This show is sponsored by Pod Junction. It gets, you know, up and running with podcast. So if you did have your own podcast and you could have a guest on your show, you know, you're going to chat to them like we're going to chat and you could have anybody on from your past or the present throughout the whole space of time history. Does someone that's had a really big influence on your life. Who would be your guest and why?

I think it would be Isaac Asimo, who has been a major influence on me since I was growing up. So it would be Isaac Asimov and I would be asking him questions regarding the direction in which the whole science, AI, automation, robotics, the whole world is headed because he kind of saw all this on paper almost a century back and I think, you know, surprisingly predicted almost 30% of it accurately. So it would be very fascinating to dig deeper given what's happening now. I'd love to ask him some questions about the next hundred years.

We would all love that insight. Where's it all going? We just don't know. But yeah, I mean, you're obviously into AI, you're into robotics. I mean, this, you know, proper science stuff here. Where do you think it's all going? I mean, have you got a. And I mean, I appreciate I'm asking the million dollar question here, but if you did have a crystal ball, where would you predict it's going to go? Knowing what you know Now I think.

As with all technologies, technology has driven societal progress and the human evolution throughout the centuries. And if you look at how we have evolved as humans, it has always been tool driven, starting from the wheel, the fire, the industrial revolution, the steam engine has been tools at the center of it, then the computers. So I think AI is the next tool and it's going to be a hyper evolution this time because unlike anything else you've seen in our history, this is the first tool that can actually reason itself, which is kind of very, very special if you think about it. Right. So what are we kind of building? So I think we are in for a sort of big ride. And we don't need to wait 100 years, we just need to wait five years in my opinion, to see most of the impact. And this could go all the way to bioengineering, this could go all the way to improving quality of life, this could go all the way to increasing the lifespan. And we can see all this happening in the next five years. So that's what is special about this revolution, is that the speed at which it's accelerating is so fast and we are in for a ride. At the same time, as with every new technology, there's been, there's been downside, there's been containment. You know, there have been issues when new technology comes out of the box. So I think we need to look out for instances where this could potentially cause problem. How can we contain it? And if you see the history, not all of it has been great. I think if you look at the nuclear bomb, it has been largely contained. It is a major invention in the 40s, right. It's been almost like 80 years back, but it's been largely contained. I mean, there has been a consensus globally how to contain it. So maybe some part of this that comes out that is not pleasant or not ideal could be contained. So, but overall I think it's very, it's a very promising and optimistic future. We're going to see a lot of progress in all the sciences. We're going to see a lot of free time, the quality of life is going to improve. And again, I'm an entrepreneur, I'm an optimist, so that's how I usually think.

So I love, I'm the same way, but I'm the same way and very optimistic in life. But can I ask you, I mean you obviously, you know a lot about this side of things and where it's all going. You can see the technology. Does it scare you in any way?

Oh yeah. Absolutely. It does scare me from a lot of perspective and seeing the pace at which it is developing. I think what we're creating is so powerful that we could be looking at in five to 10 years engineering atoms, we could be engineering new biological organisms. And this could all be available as kits in every home in five to 10 years time. So we could, we'll have a material fabricators. It's like 3D printing. With the way things are developing, in five to ten years you could, you could 3D print literally anything at home. You won't need to purchase anything from the grocery store. So I think the impact is going to have on society the way we used to living is massive. And most of the governments, and this is what is really worrying me is most of the governments are not ready, are not fully prepared. They're playing a reactive game. They're waiting for everything to hit, to kind of respond. And I don't think that's the right strategy for this wave because every previous wave, like the industrial evolution, the computers, Internet, there's been time for government organizations to adapt, create rules, reskill labor. This time there's no time. So I think we need to be more proactive, come up with mechanisms, incorporate all the tools in labor. From that perspective, definitely it's very scary. I don't think the world is fully prepared for what's coming. And from a second perspective, this could create so many side waves that nobody can predict what are the side effects which could create, and this is very hard, nobody can predict what are the societal effects? What fragmentation can it create? You're going to have a small group of 10 people who are going to be super powerful, as powerful as a Nation now in 5 to 10 years time. How are you going to contain that? What do you have in place now to do that? And if you look at nations, I think one of the things with nations is that there is an implicit contract that you've given security from a nation, from a democratic nation to a citizens. So if smaller groups can get to this state with like 20 people with all these tools, what, what then happens to the contract between the nation and the citizens? So I think there are a lot of bigger questions in play here. This is really scary. And I think we're gonna, we're gonna see all that play out in the next five to 10 years.

Wow. And it's really interesting, isn't it? You talk about it from that side of things because everybody talks about it from the, from the terminator point of view. You know, the robots get smart and they kill all the humans because humans are a virus and you know, the Matrix, all the sci fi movies, isn't it really? And in fact, you're a bit of a sci fi fan yourself, I understand. Is that correct?

Absolutely, absolutely. But one thing I hate is a Terminator style depiction because that's probably the most unlikely scenario that's going to happen. I think what's going to happen is a standard classic example. They call it the paperclip maximizer, which is really interesting. You create an AI or a robot and give it a task to make paper clips and these things become very intelligent, very efficient and it converts the whole world into a giant mass of paper clips and it destroys everybody in the process. So that's the kind of scenario we need to be worried about. We're going to trigger an unintended fatal consequence through a general purpose specific AI. So that's how I think we should be worried. I mean something turning sentient and this is great for movies, but I think it's highly unlikely that will play out in real life.

Yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it? And I, but it has, I think AI is one of those things, like it's got people excited, but it's also got people a little bit twitchy. And I, I'm intrigued because there seems to also be a generational thing that seems to be occurring. So there's a lot of people going, AI is exciting, it's scary, but I am not keeping up to date, I am sort of way out of it. And then there's a generation of people which are sort of fully embracing it, if you like. And I'm curious to see where it all goes, you know, and the impact on the economy, on jobs, on people's lives. I mean, I suppose where I'm more excited to see the impact is going to be in things like healthcare, you know, and medicine and those kind of things where actually we can use machine learning and we can use AI to help us, you know, cured some of the most horrific diseases known to man. And you kind of think that's kind of interesting. Things like chatgpt, I suppose are a bit fun. You know, they, they kind of help you create a LinkedIn post. But it's, it's one of those, the sort of, where it's all going over the next five or ten years I think is like you say, it's both very exciting and sort of a little bit, a little bit, as we say in England, a little bit squeaky bum time, you know, a little Bit scary.

Yeah. And I think, yeah, that's, that's an interesting analogy. And I think if you look back at all the previous generation, I think if you look at calculus and calculation, which is done by paper three, four generations back, and then we had calculators and everybody said using the calculator is not good. And then came the scientific calculators, then came computers, and now it's AI and we are telling our kids that don't use AI. That's not the right thing to do. So if you look back, it's the same thing. It's a new tool and we are just discouraging our kids from using it because that's going to be the standard. This is a new computer. Right. So you can't, you can't. The cat is out of the box. You can put it back now.

Yeah, yeah. Interesting, interesting. Well, listen, Arshad, you've had a fairly interesting journey yourself. You know, sort of reading through the information here. You moved around a lot as a kid. Your dad was involved in banking, I think it was, and that caused you to move around a little bit. You've got involved in robotics and AI and serve an entrepreneur along the way. Let me ask, what is perhaps the biggest challenge that you face so far in your, in your life that you sort of come through?

I think it has to be my second company where we went through, we went through a massive failure. It was catastrophic, you know, and that's my second company that didn't kind of come out and we had to kind of wind it down. So I just, it was a very character building exercise. Yeah, to be honest. And I think, you know, it put me grounded and also made me realize that sometimes things happen not as a consequence of you not putting in enough effort, you not being honest. Sometimes things doesn't work out and there's nothing you can do about it and it's not your fault. Right. And how do you kind of, how do you kind of come out of it? So I think it's moments like that, circumstances like that, I, I think it actually builds your character and I think you kind of understand what kind of person you are. Right. Because I think it's easy when you're successful, things are going your way, you will have a lot of supporters, everybody wants to be on the same boat. And I've seen that in my first company and the third and fourth companies. But things doesn't go your way. Everything is collapsing around you. And then you realize, how do you kind of come out of it? How do you keep you know, how do you remain a sincere, good person? You know, and how do you remain true to your purpose? So this kind of tests you and I think that's. That was very, very intense. It put me through a lot of stress from a family perspective.

Yeah.

Finances and you know, a lot of self doubt. And so it was, it was kind of the hardest thing I had to go through. Without a doubt.

If you don't mind me asking, when was this?

This was in around 2012, 2013. It's probably around my second venture.

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. There's something about that time of the year or the time of the century. Should I say 2012, 2013? There's a lot of people I know went through quite hard times. I don't know, maybe that was just something or maybe it's just a coincidence, I don't know. But it's interesting you talk about how sometimes things just happen that are outside of your control. Because I think when things do go wrong and we face things like what you call a catastrophic failure, knowing there is a lot of self doubt. You mentioned, you know, there's a lot of that introspection, isn't it? What have I done wrong? How did you wrestle with that? How did you deal? Did it take you a long time? Were you quite matter of fact about it early on or was it a bit of a dark space for a while?

I think, yeah, I think I did have to work on me a lot. So I think, you know, just like, you know, this is what I tell people that just like you do physical exercise for the body, you need exercise for the mind. So you need, you need mechanisms, you need to exercise your mind, you need tools to kind of look inwards, you need to kind of look at you as a person, detached and you know, and see how you react to different situations. And I think it took a lot of. And also understand that you need to live in the present, give your best and don't worry about the outcome. Right. This is how I think you should, you should drive it, don't worry about the outcome and give it your best and understand that things are outside your control. And in fact I started reading a lot of the stoic philosophies around that time, which is kind of very interesting. And I did find a lot of analogies over there, you know, which was, which is useful and even fact. Many of the religions and philosophies have similar threads. These are like used to train your mind. So I definitely, I did struggle very, very deeply and then I had to look into all these tools. I started taking care of my health, I started meditating, I started taking a break. I had all these mental frameworks. I started looking at the decisions I'm making from a very, very pragmatic perspective. So I had to work a lot on myself. And this is very different. You know, I came in as a fairly accomplished person and I graduated top of the class, top of the engine degree, contracted IBM, went into tier one mba, worked in great companies. So I was intellectually fairly capable, but I was not emotionally and socially ready for the huge challenges. So that kind of taught me that this is also important and you need to kind of train yourselves how to come back and also see all these failures as a step back, detach yourself from the failure. I mean, the failure is a consequence of a lot of external factors. It doesn't reflect you as a person. So don't connect yourself with a company and connect yourself with a particular initiative. You need to detach from that and I think innovate. It also means that you need to detach your ego from the process. You need to have a healthy ego because a healthy is essential, especially for an entrepreneur, because otherwise you're not going to get anything done. But at the same time, you need to detach yourself from the negative side of it. So this is what, you know, kind of I understood at the time. So, yeah, I mean, I did do a lot of introspection training and this is something else. I also advise a lot of new entrepreneurs professionals. I helped navigate these challenges because I can understand how difficult it can get. So I think, and this is one of the reason I was also attracted to the topics that you are covering on this flat. You know, I thought it'd be a great way to keep back the community, some of my experiences.

Yeah, fantastic. It's an interesting one, isn't it? You know, we go through these things, don't we, Arshad? And we, we sort of face them and at the time they're painful and they're hard and you wouldn't choose them. It's not like you just, you sit and go, I just want my company to go under there. That'd be great. Thanks very much, Ellis. To do that, you're not looking for it, but it happens. And I think several years later, once you've come through it quite often my observation is, as humans, we have the ability to look back and go, I wouldn't have chose it. But I'm actually quite grateful that I came through it because had I have not done that, I Wouldn't. And you can see the path that you're on now because of, because of where it went wrong. Is that true for you? Would that be a fair comment?

Absolutely, absolutely. And I think it did, you know, and I think it's one of the reasons that people say take a lot of risk early on in your life, which I think should be followed. It's an advice that followed on because you can make a lot of mistakes and come back in your 20s and 30s.

Right.

So you should. Because usually we do the opposite. We actually encourage the new generation to take into steady, safe jobs. Don't take any risk, which I think should be reversed. I think the first 10 years you take crazy amount of risk staying so many times.

Yeah.

And you know, it's not, it's not good to hear, but actually, if you think about it, that's the right advice you should be giving. So, yeah, I mean, I would definitely. And this is something like even Nvidia's Jensen Huang in a recent interview mentioned, you know, I mean, he didn't mention what's. Somebody asked him what's the character traitor of a good entrepreneur. And he mentioned in a very, very interesting way, he said that to be a good entrepreneur, I wish to you wish upon you great suffering for an extended period of time. That's the only way you'll build the skill set. And it's actually very true. If you think about all this experience everybody's gone through, there is no way you can get learn this in the textbooks. No way. Even I can coach a lot of people, but they're not going to understand it until. Unless they go through it. So you need to literally go through the process, as you mentioned. So I guess it's very right. You have to go through this process to get forged and you know, it kind of sets you up for future success.

Yeah, absolutely. There's a great phrase, you know, there's no testimony without a test. And I think there's. When you're going through these things, yes, you work hard to get out of them because you're not choosing them. But I think there's something about embracing it as you go through it and going, right, what can I learn here? What, what, what? So it's not a wasted thing. I think that's the other thing that I see. So, you know, with entrepreneurs is sometimes I'll go through something, it's bad and it causes them to quit, full stop. You know, they've, they've kind of, they've got burnt. That's it. I'm out. And, and that's actually quite, I think, quite sad because you're like, now what have I learned here? Let's not let this thing defeat me. What have I learned? What can I get out of this so that next time I come out just a little bit wiser, a little bit stronger. It's, you know, let's not waste a good opportunity. So I liked your quote there. I wish upon you great suffering. It's quite, quite a fascinating idea. What do you, what does a risk look like to you then? So, you know, we should tell people to take more risks when they're younger. And the reason I'm asking this, I just read a really interesting study about, about kids growing up in homes without fathers. So fatherless houses, fatherless households, or households with absence dads, depending on how you pronounce it. One of the things that they understand that is missing from households where dad's not there is the kids don't learn to take as much risk on average. Now, I'm not being stereotypical, I'm just looking at the data and just seeing what it says. But there's something about dads teaching risk to their kids. I don't know if there's something you learned from your dad. I mean, you moved around a lot when you were kid. I don't know if that taught you risk or what, but, or adaptability probably is a good trait. But that kind of, I'm curious, what does risk look like for you? How do we take more risk? What is it?

I think, yeah, you did. It's a nice analogy of Putin. I think usually in, and again, not the stereotype, but in every, every family it's usually the dads who kind of push the kids beyond the comfort zone little by little and you know, make, make them do rest and this is how the training has been. I think risk is kind of being outside your comfort zone, being okay to fail, being okay to be embarrassed publicly in front of your siblings, in front of your family, and coming back again knowing that it's okay. Right. So that's what's most important.

Yeah.

So if somebody's gonna do that, are you gonna give support to that person? And are you gonna, if, if you have hypothetically a 20 year old son or a daughter who's taking a risk and doing it, are you gonna support them? Then they come back and fail? Are we gonna say it's okay, then do again? It's absolutely fine. Which is something that I think generationally didn't exist a lot. 20, 30 years back. I Think it was. Again, these are like different generations. I think, you know, our parents and, you know, they're different generations, but I think that's what's more important. So we should encourage people to take risks, but we should also give them a safe space to take risk. There should not be any character assassination. There should not be any judgment for taking the risk. There should not be any finger pointing or. You wasted your, your early 20 years. So this is what needs to be. And this is not from an entrepreneur perspective. This is like generalized skills, right?

Yeah.

Whatever you want to do. If you go through that phase where you have experimented a lot and did all this, you turn out to be a better person. Right. I think you're more empathetic. You understand the highs and lows, you connect with people. Excuse me, better. So I think it's not just from an entrepreneur perspective. It builds good character, taking all this risk early on. And I think the role for the society, mentors, colleges, students, parents, is to give a safe space for people to take that risk and not associate and failure with their identity. Right. They should have the space to come back and, you know, with a new identity. So this is, I think, what's more important.

That's such a powerful, such a powerful insight. And I think, I think you're exactly right. I love, in listening to what you had to say and this identity that goes alongside failure and, and how. I don't know if it's the same in your part of the world. I don't know if it. But certainly when I grew up, failure was associated with shame. You know, you felt ashamed because you go to school. I have failed. That's not a good thing. Right. We're using this grading system to tell you how good or bad you are compared to somebody. Oh, turns out you're rubbish. Oh, thanks very much. And so there's this sort of innate shame that I think comes with failure. And I think one of the things that entrepreneurs seem to be quite good at is reframing failure. So it's not shameful, sure, it's not pleasant, but it's not necessarily. It doesn't define who I am. And actually it's a learning experience. And that intrigues me. You know, that's something that I think I've noticed over the years is how different people respond or frame failure when something goes wrong in their head. How do they frame that? And you can see that, how that impacts their lives going forward.

Yeah, I think there's a great point and I think you ticked on a very, very Powerful tool, which I use a lot is I use a lot of these reframing situations to move forward. This is a very powerful tool mentally, and I would recommend this to a lot of people. This is also required when you don't have a lot of support around you. You need to reframe yourself too. And this is very powerful. And this is something that. And I was reading a TED talk, I was listening to a TED talk about resilience. And in fact, it says that the most successful predictor, the most powerful predictor of success is resilience, not social intelligence or emotional or raw intelligence. Right. And they also talk about many successful people having something. They are. They're called haha and it's called High Achiever. High adaptability. It's a combination of both.

Love that. Yep.

Yeah, it's called haha. So this is what they call it. And you know, so this is kind of very, very important. And reframing your situation, seeing it from a new perspective is a very, very healthy thing to do is a great way to kind of. And I would highly recommend to people listening it look into this process, understand how you can look into every setback and reframe and, you know, rephrase and then kind of move forward. It's very powerful. Right. And I couldn't stress more, Matt. I think you hit upon a very, very powerful tool which I've used personally, and I would recommend a lot to people who are trying to push the boundaries. And in fact, when you feel that there's nobody who's supporting you, nobody who understands you, nobody is kind of with you, you need to be face. And I think that's a challenge with doing not only entrepreneurship. If you're doing something new and people around you doesn't understand, you need to be ready to be misunderstood for extended period of time.

Yeah.

So you need tools like this to kind of cope.

Yeah, that's so true. I was just. This lunchtime, I sat down with somebody, a very close friend of ours, live in London. Property prices in London are just, you know, scary, astronomically big. And she was telling us about the landlord to the flat she's currently renting is thinking about selling up. And so the question is, well, could you buy it? And the instant answer is to dismiss it and go, well, no, because it's crazy money. So I said, well, let's refra. You know, how do you reframe this? So think about how could you do that rather than just assume that you can't. Is there a way to sort of reframe this. And it's a really interesting discussion because you're right, I think it affects every area of life, doesn't it, how you see things? And this. I wonder, I don't know if you're. I'm a big fan of gratitude journaling because gratitude journaling reframes everything. It doesn't. It doesn't. I think people misunderstand it sometimes because it's like, well, if I've got to be grateful, I've got to deny the pain or the aggravation or whatever that I'm going through, which I don't think is actually true. I think both can exist in tension. But gratitude journaling, for me, being grateful every day I think is probably one of the biggest things that's had a biggest, the biggest impact on my life. You know, it's easy to be negative, especially in England because, you know, we're brilliant at being negative in England. But being grateful, I think takes effort and it takes work.

Absolutely, absolutely. And this is another tool I use. And in fact, one thing I do every day, morning, I wake up and I do a prayer in the morning and I meditate and I have a. And this is. I tell this to a lot of people when they pray to God. You pray for things that you want. Why don't you just switch and pray for things that you are happy that you've got? So that's your gratitude journal for people who are religious. Right. And use meditation and you know, and in the morning I meditate for 30 minutes. And one of the things is a gratitude. I list down the things that I've had. I mean, the fortunate things that I've had, experience. And it kind of balances my day out. I start my day out in a very positive manner. So this is what I do first thing earlier in the morning. And I think it's again, very, very powerful because end of the day you shouldn't start. I mean, this is a never ending cycle. Right. There is somebody with more money, more achievements. So this is never ending. So you're not going to find happiness chasing. And it's not just money, this is reputation, even philanthropy. I mean, when people are competitive, even in philanthropy. Right. I mean, if you think about it, there are people who are kind of doing good, but even that has a yardstick. They measure how good you're doing. Right. So I think having this gratitude. Yeah. I. You don't. I don't have a journal, but I have a meditation in the morning where I kind of list down and I kind of list down Every. And this is very, very important. And also stop comparing yourself to anybody else because your journey is your journey. It doesn't matter if the guy next door has a million bucks. He has two cars, three cars. He's way ahead of. Doesn't matter. He may have had a fantastic personal life. Your personal life was failed. It doesn't matter. So I think, you know, you're on your own journey. You need to be grateful, you know, and as Marcus Aurelius says, you know, when you wake up in the morning, it's a great feeling to be alive. That's, that's number one, right? That's, that's, that's the thing with gratitude. And I think, and I've read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. It's a great book. So I would recommend a lot of the old Stoic books, Letters from Seneca, Marcus. These are like great books and way, way more powerful than a lot of the self help books. Now that I can go back. A lot of this stress on gratitude and even a lot of religious texts and prayers for some gratitude. So I think, you know, this is kind of a very, very powerful tool in turn will keep you grounded. So. Absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, very true, very true. It's an intriguing one, isn't it? You know, I, listening to you talk, you know, you've obviously gone through the mill, but you sort of got these foundations in life, Arshad, that you sort of, you know, you impermuse with your prayers, your meditations, your gratitude, your introspection when it's needed, and so on and so forth. Can I ask, do you feel content? Are you content in life?

I would say yes. I mean I'm at least in the last five years. So this is a test. I do, Matt, you know, I always start the day and I think if I'm going to drop dead, end of the day, would I be okay? And I guess I am. On most days I'm fine. So if I kind of, God forbid, you know, my life ends end of the day, I'm okay. I think I'm content with not what I've achieved as a person. I'm content with the journey I've taken, the risk I've taken and you know, so I'm very, very content. Absolutely. And I think, but that doesn't prevent me from. So this is for me, like I'm detached from the, the glory and the ego. But I'm pursuing this journey as a ritual rather. Right. So. But I'm not attached to it. So tomorrow, if it all collapses, I'll come out of it unscathed. I'll start again from zero. I'll lose all my money, I lose all my provincial credentials. I'll be very happy and I'll start again. And that's my superpower back.

Such a good superpower.

Yeah.

What it is for me, it's tied into a higher purpose then, isn't it? So my, you know, if my purpose is to be a successful E commerce entrepreneur and it all fades tomorrow, then I've lost my sense of purpose. And that, I think is very dangerous, especially for men. I think men without purpose are very dangerous. But you, if your purpose is higher than that. So if my purpose is, you know, to be, for example, a loving husband, irrespective of what happens with my E commerce business, I can do that. And so I love hearing what you've got to say because I do think it stems to understanding that there is something beyond the work. There is something beyond this sort of realm. I operate in night and day and go, no, there's something higher. And as long as I tie into that sense of purpose that for me, I'd call it the eternal purpose, you know, that sort of sense of the divine, I suppose, without getting too religious. But if I connect into that, then yes, I, I think I can face anything because I've got that high sense of purpose. Does that make sense?

Absolutely. And I think, I think another powerful tool that I use is that I stop expecting things or outcomes from people or situations. So I don't expect, you know, even if my love, my kids, my wife, I do something for my dad, for my colleague, I expect nothing in return. And that kind of frees you. And that's a prison we all get trapped into, right?

Yeah.

You expect, you expect people to behave with you in a different manner. You expect people to reciprocate. But if you take that out and you do your, your part as a duty and you take the same approach to your work and stop expecting somebody to applaud you and, you know, say that you're great people and even if people come out of the woodwork and criticize you, you're fine. So I think expectation is your person, right? That's. It imprisons you because you are expecting. And then you become a slave to somebody else. You're letting somebody else and some other emotion control you, right? And then you become unhappy and then you get into all this negative emotions like jealousy, revenge, anger. So I think, you know, if you, if you cut out expectations and you give unconditional support to anybody People, business, you're a free man.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a really interesting one, isn't it? How does that work then, in relation? Because I get that in the sense that a lot of, I suppose a lot of disappointment is just because of unmatched, unmet expectations. Right. I'm disappointed you didn't do dot, dot, dot. And I've either not communicated or you've just not done it. And that expectation is not there. And so I get that. How does that work with your staff, though, or your team? Because obviously I think as a business leader, as an entrepreneur, I have expectations of performance from my team and I have standards which I try and achieve myself, I suppose, and hold myself accountable. I have expectations of myself. How do you balance the two things?

This is a great question, you know, because on one hand, I mean, I'm, as you can imagine, Matt, I'm a very, very demanding leader. This is, in other words, I can't get anything done. What I'm doing is. So I'm pretty tough to work with. But the key thing here is that none of my demands are personal and my ego is detached from the whole process. So this is just a process that people can reciprocate. If somebody doesn't measure up, we figure out a way. But there's no way that I get angry on the person. There's no way that he gets upset. We try to move somebody to a different role. So it's a process. And I don't see that as somebody else's fault. I don't see as somebody as let me down. So I think you have detached yourself from the process. But at the same time, again, this goes back to applying your. This is what I do in my calling is to be this entrepreneur, do this day in and day out and not expecting an outcome, but do my best and let people perform at their best. And sometimes people are going through their own struggles. So you need to kind of really understand many times people fail not because they are kind of want to intentionally fail. They're going through a lot of stuff. They're not well suited. So there are multiple number of reasons. So I do tend to apply this. But the key thing is that because the way I'm thinking, it is not personal. It is very, very methodical. So I think, you know, we go through separate steps and there is always plan abcde. So there's always, you know, we move people to that. But at the same time, me as a person, I keep moving the company forward. So that's where I mean for me Matt, all this mental tools that I'm talking about is not an option. It is a necessity for me to do the things I'm doing with limited capital and everything. This is what I need to be. This is what my job demands me to be. Right. So, yeah. So I think the balance is there. So this doesn't mean that as a CEO, I kind of let people do whatever they want and let it slide. You know, that obviously doesn't work. But at the same time, Keating, is detach yourself from the process. Take your ego out from the process and then relook at the scenarios. Have plan ABCDE and support people when they, when you need them to support. Be empathetic. But if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

Yeah, right.

And that's, that's kind of a 2 cents. And this is a, this is a great question. You know, this is a lot of people, when they, when they see the business side of me, they see how strong and pushy I am to get things done because, you know, I need to be. Because you can't, you can't run a company like what I'm running if you're not clearly defined on your objectives and KPs and everything. Right. But that's a very different thing. So you should not confuse. It's like what they say, right? I mean, you can be a very, very calm, pleasant person, but you can get a lot of things get done professionally. Well, yeah, you can be a very rude, serious person, but professionally you can be so backward. So this need not be connected. Right. We don't need to have a correlation between this. So it can be, you can be conversely very effective without being rude, without being pushy. So these are like that. I think the trick is to kind of find that balance of how you detach yourself from the process.

It's really interesting. It's a really interesting tension, isn't it? And figuring that out and that comes down, I guess, to personal leadership style as well. You know, like you run your company the way you run that because actually that's who you are. And if you try and lead a company like I lead a company, I don't think that would work for you because we're a different person, we're a different style with different way of approaching life, and that's okay. And I'm okay with that. And I can learn things from you and I can adapt them. But if I try and mirror you, I'm on a road heading south real quick. And so again, this is part of the journey, isn't it? It's understanding what works for me and how I best function in this entrepreneurial system. Have I got it all right? No, not at all. Am I enjoying the journey? Absolutely. I'm enjoying the journey and I'm learning lots every day. It's been a fascinating thing. Arshad, listen, let me ask you, I'm aware of time, so let me ask you this. The question for Matt, this is a new thing we've started doing on the shows where I ask my guest for a question, I'm going to take the question, I'm going to throw it out there on social media and answer that question. So what's your question for me?

I would like to ask you, Matt, in all the people who you have interviewed, which answer and all the questions you've asked, which answer surprised you the most and why?

Right. That's a big old question. I love that question though. So if you want to hear me answer that question, just follow me on social media, both on Instagram and LinkedIn and I will post a video there at some point after I've scratched my head. That's gone. This is a really big, tough question, but thank you for that. Oh, Shadow, I appreciate that. Listen, how do people reach you? How do they connect with you if they want to do that, what's the best way to. To maybe just have a chat?

Yeah, I have my own personal site@aishwarycham.com and there is a contact me form and usually one thing I do, a lot of people find it really surprising that I tend to personally respond to most messages coming in. So I try to respond in two to three days time. So if you reach out for anything, I'm happy to connect, set up a call, talk with you and especially if you need advice, if you want me to connect, I'm very happy to do that. And if you want to look at the company, it's engine dynamics.com and we are on LinkedIn. So that's on the company. Again, I'm happy to respond if you go to my personal website, put in your details on the form. Glad to respond to any questions coming.

Fantastic. We will of course link to that said form and to the company and the LinkedIn pages in the show notes as well. So if you just listen to this on your favorite podcast app or if you're watching on, just scroll down in the description in the show notes you'll find the links. Hit the links and go say, how's it? Because it's always nice actually when people just go and say Hi. I just heard you on the show. It's great. I really enjoyed it. This is what I got out of it. And just connect with people. This is what we do as business leaders, isn't it? We network, we connect with people. So go say how's it to Arshad. Arshad, listen, in closing, I guess one final question for you. What does more look like, you know, in five years time, what does more look like for you? Where will you be?

I think, I think, you know, there is a very good Ralph Emerson quote, right, which says that if you manage to get the respect of intelligent people, if kids can listen to your story and be fascinated, and if your family and friends love what you're doing, you are successful. So that's my art stick. I mean, and I would like to get there measure by measure, not by measuring anything I've done, but on a daily progress and a better version of me every day I'm competing with myself. But that's my art stick. You know, if I can, if I can achieve that any day, I think that's success for me and that's fantastic.

Yeah, I love that. That is a great place to end. I love that. Arshad, listen, thanks for coming on the show, man. Really, really do appreciate that. I love these kind of chats because it's just good to shoot the breeze with other business leaders, with other entrepreneurs, see what they think and just feel refreshed and recharged and so thank you for coming on. Thank you for doing that, thank you for sharing your wisdom. It's much appreciated and it's lovely to meet you.

I cosmetic. Thank you for having me. Enjoy the conversation and really look forward to connecting in the future.

Fantastic. Yeah, absolutely, no doubt we will definitely stay in touch. Well, as I said, we will link to Arshad's info in the show notes which you can get for free along with the transcript@push2bemore.com but that's it, that's a wrap on another great conversation. Let me do this actually. Hang on my sound desk. Hang on. There we go. There we go. Love that. A massive round of applause, there we go for Arshad for joining us today, my little cheesy cheering on the old sound desk, which I've got now. But huge thanks again for coming on. Also huge thanks to today's championship sponsor, Pod Junction. For you change makers out there contemplating podcasting as your new marketing tool. Definitely check out what's going on@podjunction.com you're really going to enjoy. Actually, the show's great. The podcast is great. What they do is great. Sad. Everyone's great. Just go check it out. Now remember, keep pushing to be more. Don't forget to follow the show wherever you get your podcasts from, because we've got some more great conversations coming up and I don't want you to miss any of them. And in case no one has told you yet today, let me be the first. You, my friend, are awesome. Yes, you are created awesome. It's just a burden you have to bear. Arshad has to bear it. I've got to bear it. You've got to bear it as well. Now push to Be More, as I said, is produced by Podjunction. For transcripts or show notes, swing to the website pushtobemore.com Big shout out to Josh Edmondson who wrote this theme music, but from Arshad and from myself. Thank you so much for joining us. Have an awesome week wherever you are in the world. I'll catch you on the flip side. But until then, keep pushing and bye for now.