Transcripts
TA Ep. 166 Leigh Ann & Kelly - Navigating New Beginnings: Starting a PhD in Depth Psychology
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Leigh Ann: [: t into some of that a little [:Kelly Schmidt: start of the program. And what is the program, Leigh Ann? What are we doing?
Leigh Ann: This is why Kelly's here, guys, because I would just go right in to telling you my whole experience and you all would be like, what is she even talking about? So. I, I've mentioned a couple of times on the podcast that I am starting, have started a PhD program in depth psychology and depth psychology is literally the study of the unconscious mind.
our years now, Since probably: I think it's [:I kind of found myself resigned to be like, okay, well, I'm not going to do a program just to do it, just to have letters behind my name. I also know that just wouldn't be sustainable. There's no way I could do a five year program. Um, if I didn't absolutely love the material.
So I hadn't looked in a while. And the funny thing about this though, is that the subconscious mind has, you know, been the foundation of my practice from day one, what's going on in the subconscious. And yet somehow I had literally never heard of this term depth psychology. And so when I, I kid you not, I saw an ad on
Instagram,
from Pacifica, the Institute I'm going to for their program.
his integrative perspective. [:Is this real life? This feels too good to be true. and that kind of started the whole process. And that was back in like March and April
Kelly Schmidt: of this
Leigh Ann: of this year.
Kelly Schmidt: Okay. You hustled to make that happen.
Leigh Ann: Yes.
And I think that's also. Maybe part of sort of like the wobbliness of a big
Kelly Schmidt: Mm. that
Leigh Ann: that I've only had a few months of kind of anticipation leading up to this and to prepare for it.
Um, but here we are, we started end of September, almost a month in.
Kelly Schmidt: You're doing it. Does it, does it still feel wobbly or was that more anticipatory?
Leigh Ann: I think the anticipation is always more, I think maybe we've talked about this where it's just like that, that in between that almost kind of holding of the breath of like, okay,
I've made all the changes I need to make.
I've done everything I [:Kelly Schmidt: we're doing it. Okay.
Leigh Ann: it. And then that kind of on top of this big office move I'm doing, which also is still kind of in that waiting period, probably by the time this releases, I will have already moved offices.
So it's so much transition in a year, you know, ending a relationship, moving into a new place. PhD, moving offices. It's just so, so
Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, so much disruption. Yeah. How are you staying steady?
I was saying, Oh, we need to [:So we had like eight hours of class Saturday and then four hours of class Sunday. And the first hour was all orientation. And I found myself just having to hold back tears the whole time. And even in the moment I was able to identify, there's so much resonance here. There were just a knowing of, This is where I'm supposed to be.
Um, but as I was reflecting on it deeper, so I told you that I was like, Oh, we need to talk about this is
Kelly Schmidt: Yeah. You were
Leigh Ann: I was like, this is, this is going to be a moment when I look back on, I think years and years from now where I go, that was a moment of massive change and up level in my life. Like, I think so much is going to point
Kelly Schmidt: Yeah. Or it kind of like started you on this new path.
ere on a new path until much [:Leigh Ann: Whereas now, yes, completely. And so I was journaling on it Sunday afterwards, but it was so profound and I, this is gonna be kind of wordy, so I apologize everyone, but it was so profound for a number of reasons.
The first being. My entire life, entire life, even as like a six, seven, eight year old, there's been this urgency within me of like,
there's
something I'm supposed to do here in this realm, on this planet. And I need to get to it. It just always this underlying urgency and not anxiety. I think there's, there's a big difference, at least in how I perceive them and how it felt, because it didn't feel like anxiety.
t way that I can describe it [:I could tell this is because I feel like there's something big I'm supposed to do. And I feel like I'm looking for something or pursuing
Kelly Schmidt: for it, yeah.
Leigh Ann: and hoping, hoping that this feeling I have, that I have a big purpose and have something to do is real and not just like made up in my head. And so you kind of have that hope, right?
But you're also not totally sure. You're like, I could feel this way the rest of my
Kelly Schmidt: life. And so,
at your end destination, but [:point.
And, and that was so, I think there was first of all, like such a relief in it.
I'm
like, Okay,
I don't have to feel this urgency.
Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, well, it's two decades of urgency. I mean, that would be a massive, not wait necessarily, but just sort of like a, Oh, it was, it was true and there was a point to this. There was a point to the urgent feelings and there was a point to the looking and the searching.
And it's this. I found
Leigh Ann: Yeah. Yeah. The analogy, cause you know, I always have to come up with an analogy. It was like, It was sort of like everything in my life up till this point has been, um, conditioning hikes or training hikes, if you will, where they were important. There was a lot to learn and gain from them. They were so necessary.
I had to do those little hikes first to get prepared for the big trek.
Kelly Schmidt: Okay.
Leigh Ann: And [:I've arrived. And then also knowing, and now there's a whole journey from here.
But there's a lot of relief [:And what a gift.
Leigh Ann: and just this feeling of, again, out of this and not even, not even just the PhD, but I really do think out of this.
So much of what I'm meant to do and put into the world is going to come.
Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.
Leigh Ann: And,
and that's what's so exciting too.
Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, even the other tangential paths, like other paths will come as well, right?
You'll, you'll walk down other kind of, yeah, I
Leigh Ann: the side trails that only exist on
Kelly Schmidt: because of that. Exactly. Yes.
Leigh Ann: Mm hmm.
Mm
Kelly Schmidt: Perfectly said. Yeah.
ly shit. This is almost like [:Okay. I knew this existed. So it just, it did kind of blow me off my feet for that weekend of, Whoa. Okay. This is so much bigger and more important even than I thought
Kelly Schmidt: Right, right, okay. And how has it been in the weeks since?
What have you been surprised by, challenged by?
Leigh Ann: nothing but amazing. Literally. It's so cool. I mean, what kind of program starts off? The whole thing, like the whole year with, uh, like community wide meditation. That was literally the first thing we did. We all got on the zoom call. There's like 60 plus people across all the years and the professors guide us in a meditation.
And you're like, Oh yeah, this is where I'm
Kelly Schmidt: this is it.
This is it
Ann: And just all of my, the [:You get that this singular kind of conventional conscious based approach to healing is effective, but only to a point. And we need to go deeper and we need to look at the being as a whole being. And even as I've started reading some of the texts, Um, Jung, who is young, who's the kind of one of the big founders of depth psychology, one of his whole premises is this idea of the wounded healer.
doing work on yourself. It's [:Yeah. And to him, it was like absolutely foundational. If you cannot sit with yourself and look at yourself and try to understand yourself and maybe not without help, but if you can't do that, you're not going to be able to do that for others nearly as well. And so that it's just like everything I'm reading is like, Oh my God, yes, this, this is what I've been doing.
l trauma, indigenous trauma, [:that I'm about. So
Kelly Schmidt: pretty magical, honestly.
Leigh Ann: it's been amazing. It's been obviously an, you know, an adjustment with the reading and we're recording this maybe.
Only a week before I go on campus for the first time for a full
Kelly Schmidt: Oh, that's going to be a whole new
Leigh Ann: So that'll be a whole, there'll be like a whole new update that comes after that. Cause that's going to be amazing. I think to just all be in person together, but literally to that point, it's like they have someone on campus who leads sound baths and you can signed up for a sound bath.
And if any, if any of us students. You know, likes to guide meditation or guide breath work. You know, we're, we're encouraged to set up sessions that we all can attend.
king care of the mind, body, [:Leigh Ann: you learn and
the research you contribute into the world. As who you become as a person in this. And that is just so, so cool because I think that really is the foundation yes. Smart people have impact. Sure. I think it's healed. People, authentic people have impact as well and sometimes bigger. So that was really beautiful and special and it's just been amazing and it's been kind of fun to get into a different groove of now.
s well. And it always gets a [:And then this is a completely different where it's like, I Everything I'm doing, whether it's writing an essay, reading a text, taking notes on a text, engaging in a discussion board, I know is ultimately going to serve
Kelly Schmidt: It sounds like activities and readings and like even the discussion board, it sounds like stuff you'd want to do anyway. Like, regardless of being in a program or not, you would be deeply interested in reading these texts.
Leigh Ann: Oh my gosh,
Kelly Schmidt: So you might as well get credit and get a Ph. D. out
of it, Leigh Ann
Leigh Ann: and I am paying a lot for it, that's the difference, but it will
Kelly Schmidt: getting nice meditations and
Leigh Ann: Yes, yes, no, it will be completely worth it and all of that is renewable.
Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, very true. Very, very, very true.
Leigh Ann: that's, I mean, that's really the, you know, The biggest updates, I guess with that.
[:And you all are a huge part of it. I think I was thinking this the other day that every patient and client I've had before I get my PhD, they're going to be like the
Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.
Leigh Ann: know, the ones who were there before,
Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.
little office and quiet Dana [:Kelly Schmidt: Right. Well, I'm sure we'll all be benefiting greatly from everything you learn over the next three years in coursework.
And I'm already going to start taking bets on what your dissertation is going to be about. And it's, it's going to be a great ride.
Leigh Ann: know. I know.
Kelly Schmidt: Oh my gosh. Okay. So. Your day to day has changed. How are you managing that? Mentally, emotionally, with clients, you know, you're putting on a student hat, but it's not like you can't be full time.
You're, you're juggling a lot of full time hats really, you know, student, but also business owner, friend, sister, all the things.
lly. I felt just absolutely, [:Or should I do 30 minutes in the sauna?
Um, or should I make a big meal? And that's very unusual for me to get stuck in that. And I. I do think on the one hand, a part of that is, and I see this often too with clients, getting way too, that's when I'm like a hundred percent in the
Kelly Schmidt: the
Leigh Ann: There's no sensing, feeling, intuiting happening.
Kelly Schmidt: Right.
the sentiment beneath this? [:The sentiment beneath it is, there is one right option and you better choose it or you've wasted that time. And that's, that is super anxiety
Kelly Schmidt: Oh
yeah. Where does that come
Leigh Ann: Where does it
Kelly Schmidt: Like, where does the belief, like, there's one right answer about what to do with the next 30 minutes.
Like, who, in my mind as I'm thinking that through, like, who would have that answer if not me? But, you know, for myself, right? But where does the belief come from?
Leigh Ann: like, who would have that if not but, you know, for myself, right?
ike, there is one right way. [:good. I'll feel safe. I'll feel at peace.
Kelly Schmidt: Or
even stave off something from happening, almost, you know? Like, I'll just, I'll keep other things at bay because it will have been the right
Leigh Ann: Yeah.
And I think that's, At least that's one angle of it that I think we just need to check ourselves with sometimes of, okay, my, it's just a pattern. I see it so often that the brain does want to do that when things are out of control externally, it tries to create or exert control.
Oftentimes a faux sense of
Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.
Leigh Ann: over all these things. And I think that's what it was more for me is like, There's so many things I'm waiting for. I don't know what's going to happen with this. I don't know where this is going. So let me like, you know, grab, you know, my fists around all these things and just hyper control everything I
Kelly Schmidt: That you, that you're able to,
Leigh Ann: [:I felt, I felt almost a little shaken and insecure of what is going on with me. Why can't I figure out what I want to do in this
Kelly Schmidt: Right, right. Or I start trying to do all the things, which, which isn't, I'm like, I can't decide. So I'm gonna, you know, I'm sure for you, it's like sit on the sauna blanket while also like reading a book while also drinking like an herbal that like all the things I'm trying to cram them into that one hour so that I won't have to make that decision.
I'll, I'll leave nothing out. I'll figure out a way to do it all. And at the end of an hour, I am so rattled. Yeah. From having run around doing all the things.
Leigh Ann: We don't, we feel worse.
Kelly Schmidt: I feel worse. It's
Leigh Ann: Yeah. So I think, and I think this is maybe a little bit of our personality differences is because freeze is such my go to state.
what
en maybe like just scroll on [:Kelly Schmidt: for an hour instead.
Leigh Ann: And then, and then you still feel awful because you're like, so now I did
Kelly Schmidt: so now
Leigh Ann: Um, or it's some type, some form of collapse when I'm in those states.
Kelly Schmidt: Yeah. Been there myself as
Leigh Ann: Yeah. And then maybe what you're expressing is more of that fight flight where it's just like, okay, well let's lean in even more and see how much we can cram
Kelly Schmidt: So true. Do you see any patterns around the circumstances where this pops up for you? Is it like a time of day? Is it a day of the week? Is it when everything is just built up to a breaking point?
What does that kind of look like?
Leigh Ann: like? I think it is when there's a lot of unknowns, honestly, when there's just a lot of unknowns in my life, the brain wants to make as much known as possible.
more and more and more into [:There is a right way. There is a right thing to do and a wrong thing to do. A best and a worst. And in some ways, maybe that's true, but if we shake that out a little bit, it's kind of like, you know what? If I do a 30 minute walk or 30 minutes of yoga, It's really not, the weightiness of that decision is nowhere near as intense as it feels,
Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.
Leigh Ann: but my brain is making it into this thing.
And so
they, they almost feel like. [:Kelly Schmidt: sense.
Sure. Sure. Sometimes I feel like when I'm particularly emotionally overwhelmed or overburdened, it's hard for me to get into a felt sense. For example, this is so funny that you brought this, um, question to the table today around our shoulds and, and how to manage, like, our time in these, Moments and how we make up almost this like faux pressure.
I could not decide yesterday What sort of physical activity I should do that would be nurturing and so Because I couldn't decide and I had limited time I was like i'll pick something in my kitchen that will make the decision for me So I went over and got some three different sized grape tomatoes, put them in a bowl, shook them around, named each one a different exercise and picked out one because I could not pick.
ow I decided. That may sound [:Um, and maybe we're not capable of sitting with them in that moment. We just need to go take a walk or do a yoga, but we can't choose.
Leigh Ann: Hey, you know what? Not a bad idea. Not a bad
Kelly Schmidt: a great potato. Oh, so funny.
Leigh Ann: I might use that at some point.
Kelly Schmidt: you go.
Leigh Ann: no, but it's, uh, I, I don't know. Uh, this is just what I experienced that when I am 100 percent the logic side of my brain, I actually can't make a decision because the, the funny part about that is You almost could make anything logically make sense.
was just thinking. You could [:Leigh Ann: Which is why I think I end up going in circles because I'm like, well, the walk would be good because I'm getting
sunshine and I'm moving my body and I'm supporting my limb system. But, but yoga would be good because I'm stretching and I'm calming my nervous system and I'm whatever.
And,
and ultimately again, it's kind of like, look, it's all beneficial, but I honestly feel like. What is going to be most beneficial is, this is going to sound maybe not helpful at all, like just what feels best, not what logically makes sense. What feels best for me right now, but that's hard because we do have to tune
Kelly Schmidt: tune in
Leigh Ann: and I think it's harder to tune in, in those moments specifically, because there already is a discomfort we're running from.
Kelly Schmidt: Right. Oh, that's so true.
we ran over to our rational [:Kelly Schmidt: Totally.
Leigh Ann: Um, and so if I tune into the felt sense, I also have to tune into that emotion that I was trying to avoid in the first place, but I don't know it.
I make so many decisions from. The felt sense. A lot of my decisions, obviously this isn't like straightforward advice, you know, everyone take it with a grain of salt,
Kelly Schmidt: Well, I think we should differentiate, like, it's not feelings, you're not allowing your feelings to decide for you, it's felt sense and that's different.
Leigh Ann: More of that intuition and exactly.
second to close my eyes and [:Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.
Leigh Ann: and see how it just physically feels in my body.
And oftentimes it's just whichever one in that moment feels better to my body. And this is more talking about, um, you know, some of these like day to day things, but I even did that like recently with this office move to Ascent
in a lot of ways there again, coming back to that, like you could rationalize anything I could rationalize making this move.
I could rationalize not and staying out on my own and doing my own thing. And in many ways, there were some parts of it that maybe don't make sense or didn't make sense from a strictly business perspective.
And yet,
like when I tuned into that, it was like, this is what feels so right in my body and my intuition.
And go with that.
Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.
gh, too. But I think there's [:Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.
but how to get out of that back over to the felt sun side, you know I think it's it's hard when you're you've already kind of run away from and are actively trying to escape You It's difficult to run back over.
Leigh Ann: I think in some ways, in some ways, you know, as always. Inner dialogues that we can have. And I think part of that inner dialogue is, okay, part of my brain right now thinks there is one right option. Can I start to believe that's not That in the grand scheme of things, if I do this or this today, it's really not going to make that big of a difference.
I give myself permission to [:Um, I think that's a part of it, having a little inner dialogue like that. But I also think sometimes a good tweak is also
get,
do something physical, movement based to get us out of that rational brain,
Kelly Schmidt: Yep. Back into the
Leigh Ann: back into the body, a walk, some dancing, singing, even to just kind of help, help shake us out and get into more of that feeling
self.
Kelly Schmidt: even just a few, like, really deep, slow breaths, I think, can sometimes get me back into like, Whoa, what was I doing? Why was I so whacked out over this? Okay, let's just, alright, it's not that serious.
Leigh Ann: Yes! Yes!
Kelly Schmidt: yes.
It's
Leigh Ann: almost like you, you float above your body, and you see yourself down at the table.
Almost like with, you know, you know in the funny cartoons where the, you know, Finance guy always has the little like beads he's pushing up and down.
now what that probably has a [:Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, but I agree it does come up for me because I also feel right now like there's a plenty of unknowns that are so irksome and weigh on me.
And I know you feel that way about yourself. What are some of the unknowns that you feel like are kind of swimming around in your brain these days that, you know, maybe contribute to some of these moments of
went away and I had started [:But, um, once I started the program, there just was this sense of like, Oh yeah, I can do what feels good. Um, obviously, obviously there's, I have responsibilities. I have things I need to do and get done each day, but outside of those things, a month ago, it was like, I want to watch a movie
Every night.
That feels good. And so I just let myself watch a movie every night. And I would have a moment of being like, is this the best use of your time? I don't know. Maybe you should be reading other books. Maybe you should be starting a new program, whatever it was. And just telling myself, first of all, I trust that this isn't going to be me forever.
ozy. Just me, myself, and I, [:Kelly Schmidt: what a beautiful reminder to like we are continually evolving just because you do something for a period of time doesn't mean you're going to do it forever. Or if you lean into something a little bit extra and you kind of feel like, Oh, well, I need this support right now. What does that mean? Like, it's not going to be you for a time and all eternity.
You're an evolving creature. So if you need to watch a movie every night for a month, then. How about it?
Leigh Ann: yes. It's not a, you know,
cause then the ego wants to come up and be like, Well, I want to be the type of person who journals every night and reads her books and wakes up and meditates every morning. And
Kelly Schmidt: proving that to?
Leigh Ann: Completely.
Kelly Schmidt: no tribunal. Like, no one's
Leigh Ann: the funny thing is, is like, I think we think we would want to prove that to the outside world.
Really. It's, we want to prove it to ourselves.
Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.
rt of that shift is knowing, [:And, and when I remind myself of all that, it's like, oh, okay, yeah, I can be all those things and Do this,
Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, yeah, completely.
Leigh Ann: Um, but back to your question, what are, what, what are some of the unknowns? I think of course, before the program started, it I mean, there were so many unknowns this year, which probably is why I experienced this to the degree that I've never experienced before, where I just felt paralyzed and it just started to feel so awful.
to start this program and be [:Am I actually going to need to like close my practice? Because I'm not going to be able to, uh, work and do this program. And I think those were some really big questions that at the start of the program, so much peace came in with, and then still unknowns of what's it going to be like when we move office spaces and
wanting to keep launching bioenergetic testing.
And what's that going to look like now that we're in with Ascent, um, you know, are people going to come? Are we going to do events? Just so many things. And I think kind of similar to the PhD program, there's a feeling of this move is important. It's going to open the door for so many things, things, some things I might already be aware of and other things that I might have no idea, can't even anticipate are coming.
Um, [:look
Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, what's happening
Leigh Ann: How's it going to be? How can I prepare myself better for this transition? Um, but I really do think at least for me at this time, the PhD was the biggest thing. And like I said, once that started, just such a calmness
Kelly Schmidt: So glad. Yeah. And you're doing it. I mean, you're doing it one, one week at a time. It's coming together. And I think you are always such a great, um, encourager of your clients and friends of like, you've proven to yourself over and over again that you can trust yourself to have your back. And a reminder to you, Leigh Ann, you can trust yourself.
Leigh Ann: Oof.
Kelly Schmidt: Um, and so, um, Can all of us, you know, we've come this far, wherever we're hearing this today, um, you know, we've come this far and we've had our back. So we'll find a way.
unny that you're saying that [:And the first, I'd say, like, two years when I launched my practice, I did so much EVOX on myself around that topic of You No, Leigh Ann, I don't trust you.
No, I don't trust that if you get busy, you're not gonna sabotage. No, I don't trust that if you make more money, you're not gonna sabotage all these things. And so I do feel like some there's an inkling, but it's so small now, of Okay, you're stepping into more, bigger, higher, better, whatever, things than you ever have before.
ou if this had been me three [:I probably would have just like metaphorically jumped ship.
Cause it was all just too overwhelming.
Kelly Schmidt: Well, look at you go!
Leigh Ann: I know, and that's like the fun of growth is as new things come up being like, whoa, past me would have responded very differently.
Kelly Schmidt: Yeah. And also
I think sometimes it can be sort of surprising, like I didn't even realize I grew out of that or I didn't notice that I, that all that work kind of really did shift something in me. I don't know. Just a reminder that sometimes the work or the payoff of the work that we're doing doesn't always show up until just maybe a little bit down the road and you're like, you're able to look back and say, holy crap, I am a totally different person because that person would never have been able to do this.
Leigh Ann: to do this.
Uh huh. Completely. Completely. And it's such a good feeling. So, that's where we're at.
Kelly Schmidt: [:Leigh Ann: I know, I know. I kind of want to, I'm excited to share a little post here and there, probably on Instagram of just,
you
know, fun little tidbits, of how it's going.
And I'm really excited about the research part. And what I'll get to explore. thank you. This was so fun. I hope, I hope you guys enjoyed it, enjoyed it. Like I said, it's for me more than anything, it's kind of welcoming you all into this and feeling like you're a part of it, wanting you to be a part of it.
So if you did listen to this one, thank
you so much for tuning in
and more updates to come.
Kelly Schmidt: come. Cheers.
