In the latest weekly news and podcast after-show (sponsored by YouGov), we discuss an HP report confirming that PCs will always be better than mobile gaming, analysts saying a "Netflix of games" isn't likely, PlayStation releasing a new service to compete with Xbox's Game Pass, Kappa Bar acquiring Meltdown Bars, Bifrost unveiling its new gaming desk, Romain Grosjean partnering with Motorsport Games, Mike Frazzini stepping down as the head of Amazon Games, Amazon introducing Amazon Web Services for games, EA Sports rebranding its soccer video game series, Ninjas in Pyjamas creating a line of pajamas, and so much more!

From the keyboard to the boardroom, this is the business of esports.

As the profit of esports I rely on trustworthy and meaningful data every day. Data from a research

partner YouGov offers the most complete view of esports fans and gamers in the world, providing

context to who they are, what they think the brands they buy, and things they do. You guvs

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maximize ROI and are telling compelling stories with data. visit you gov.com/gaming-esports To

learn more, from the keyboard to the boardroom. This is the business of esports weekly news show

slash post podcast live stream. I am Paul the profit that will lead me I'm joined today by my

friends and CO hosts the Honorable Judge Jimmy burrata, Jeff, the juice Cohen, for those of you

who are new here, welcome. What we do here is we cover the most pressing gaming and esports topics

and news of the week. But we look at all of it through a business and C suite lens, we dissect,

we analyze the business implications of everything happening in this industry. But best of all, with

the live show, we get to do it live with you guys. You get to participate, ask questions, get in our

faces.

Challenge us. We encourage you to get involved. It makes it that much more fun. You can lurk if you

want to. We know so many of you do. But we really, really appreciate if you get involved, bring your

friends, bring your family, bring your colleagues make it a making a Wednesday night event to be

here and participate. Welcome, everybody. Jimmy, Jeff, how you guys doing this week? I want to know

how you're doing Paul. This is like a marathon recording day for us. Now we have so much content

coming out you guys. We got the live show right now. The podcast special episodes. mad at business

matter, woman office hours. It's nuts. What's going on? You're building a media company.

Was what you

would have thought?

Yeah. Can you teach? I teased it last week here is it? Yeah, it's the legal special legal episode.

We recorded it today. So you guys have that to look forward to very soon it'll come out probably

in the next week or so.

And it was a really fun episode we touched on I will tease loot boxes. Obviously. We touched on

some m&a like mergers and acquisitions. We touched on contract stuff, like player contracts,

corporate contracts, like supplier contracts, and tied everything back to obviously relevant news

stories, but also learnings takeaways. Call it free legal advice that you can only get on the

business of esports. And provided by one of the very best law firms specialize in the esports

space, say give LLP who are our partners in that episode. So

lots, lots, lots to look forward to guys. Not just that, you know, I mean, Paul has been recording

guys for like six hours straight today.

I should also want to tease the podcast. Right, Paul? Like we had a great guest. I mean, we just

had a great episode. And don't let me take the words out of your mouth if you want to introduce.

But I mean, no, absolutely. You can go ahead, Jimmy but like what Samsung next guys we had on

who you have to expect on the podcast this week. Yeah. So it's the investment arm of Samsung sort

of looking at all the futuristic stuff. And we had Brandon and Brandon Hoffman, who's like their web

three guy, their gaming guy their, you know, Metaverse guy. And real quick, they have

investments in boarded dock board, a yacht club in the sandbox. I mean, any innovative company that

overlaps with Samsung proper, they're taking a look at their they're making bets. And it's a

great episode for anyone that wants a broader I think picture of the metaverse and on how

companies like Samsung are getting involved. A lot of overlap, I thought with meta business and some

of our programming there, but obviously everything has roots in gaming. So we were proud to have one

businessy esports that should go alive within the next few days. Yeah, and I'll just tease one last

thing, guys.

New coming from our friends at you. gov is once a month, we're gonna have if you guys remember the

YouGov insights segments that everyone loved so much, we will probably be having one person from

YouGov come on the show once a month

to guide us through, call it a YouGov insights segment, answer some of the juices, tough

questions, obviously, and dig into dig into the great data that you got provide. So once a month

for us is not gonna hold back.

But you can expect that on the live stream. So they'll be with us live once a month. It'll be

awesome. Which will be fun. Johann says Hi, everyone, and welcome. Great to see you back. Adam

says Happy Wednesday. Adam Great. Always great to see you. Happy Wednesday, everyone. Guys, we have

so much to talk about. Yes, we're missing Lindsay again this week. I know. It's not the same without

her.

But we'll soldier on and and try and make a great show out of this. We do all miss her. And I've got

so many comments from people last week asking where was Lindsay?

And that's a good question. Where's Lindsay? On vacation? Somewhere?

Oh, one last thing that I mentioned on the podcast, Jimmy, you're muted. It's for the best, I

realize I was giving away her her location. And she might not want us to know, avoid all the fans,

you know what he's traveling. But somewhere in the UK, I'll say I'll keep it a little more broader.

I did want to tease the business of esports. Everyone you see on this screen here and more, we

are going to be doing a very special panel at PAX East. If you have any plans of being at PAX East.

Now's now you have a reason to go I would argue before you had no good reason to go to PAX East.

But now that you know the Prophet himself is going to be there in the flesh. I mean, this is a

religious experience. If you've never, you've never had it.

You want to make it and you want to come see our business of esports live panel, we're going to

have industry people, you're going to have the juice, you're gonna have Jimmy, we're all going to

be there. And it's going to be a lot of fun at PAX East, which is April, I want to say 21st to the

24th. Correct.

So end of April in Boston, one of the best gaming shows you can go to obviously guys, and the most

fun part will be our panel.

On Friday, I think it's on the Friday. So go check that out. And make sure to come say hello to us.

If you're going to be at PAX East. I'm obviously going to remind you as we get closer, but I wanted

to tease it because we're all going to be there. So Tom says I want to go now that sounds great,

Tom, it's going to be a lot of fun. I hope we'll see you there.

We've done the business of esports has done two other live shows three other live shows at PAX in

the past. Obviously, there was no PAX East last year. So it'll be fun. It'll be fun to go this

year. This is the VA says I wish I could go I wish that too. I wish everyone could come check it out.

And and come to our panel. So that's what everyone has to look forward to coming up. All right. Let's

jump into some stories. Guys. I think I've chit chatted enough here. I think I've intro it enough,

right? I've blogged enough. Go subscribe to the meta business podcast guys.

Jeff and I put in a lot of work every single week and it's a really good show. And I hope everyone

agrees and enjoys it. So go subscribe to that on Spotify or Apple podcasts or anywhere. You get

your podcasts. Okay guys, let's jump into some news. We've got business of esports news. I want

to start with maybe the most important story.

This week it was a report from HP.

Definitely the most important story this week and this is not a joke at all.

And the headline here nine out of 10 believe PC gaming offers better experience compared to

mobile.

So 10 have never played games.

HP India's gaming landscape report 2021 shows that nine in 10 Gamers believe that a PC offers a

better gaming experience than a smartphone. And many are keen to reportedly migrate to PC gaming.

I'll do I wish I could drop this mic. I can't it's on a very fancy stand and call it a day. There we

go. We have scientific evidence that I've been right all along. I mean, I'm obviously starting

with kind of a silly story guys. But Did anyone need this report? And first of all, second of all?

Is anyone surprised?

prised that the report mentions it's all highlighted here. It says the report mentions that

37% of mobile gamers want to shift to a PC for a better gaming experience. And 54% believe PC

gaming has better graphics technology and processing speed than a smartphone.

Does that not do those numbers not seem low to you? Well, yeah. The second, the second one makes

me think that maybe there's something wrong with these people.

Because it's like, keep in mind, it's India, it's HP, India, where mobile is much more prevalent,

right? And disposable incomes lower. And there's all kinds of factors obvious, like PC gaming,

clearly, the graphics and technology and processing speeds are better. That's like saying

like the number three is greater than the number one. Yeah, it should be. The part about gamers

wanting to shift from mobile to PC is much more interesting. And kind of the heart of where I

think it's more profit is right take, although 37% is like not even a majority, so I don't even

it's not the most convincing statistic.

ology comes into play, right? Like, how did they ask this question? How did they compile this data?

Is preference. Like you said, Jeff is different than just something that's factual, like, factual

that PC is better? You can't really dispute that. But if they prefer mobile, or maybe not all of

them have significantly or played enough time on on PC, that's a different thing altogether. That's

why I questioned the methodology and why we're so lucky to have you gov as partners of the show that

will be coming on presenting data like this and in helping us. You know, this is a fun story. Like

you said, Jeff, the profit is right kind of thing. But some of the other ones will be able to dive I

think into the nuts and bolts of it. And really extrapolates and true meeting.

Tom says come to Southern California. Hum, that's why I have Jimmy. RIGHT. Jimmy is already there.

He's the it's already been done.

Let's move on guys. I want to get to a more serious story. And this one, I think may cause a

lot of debate maybe not I actually not sure I want to kind of throw it up there and see. And but the

headline definitely is click Beatty. It says this is a PC gamer story. Netflix of games isn't likely

says analyst. So this is research firm ampere, it says they're not convinced that subscription

services like Game Pass are taking over gaming. They did a talk at GDC. Which, by the way, Jimmy

was at and and what they mentioned was according to ampere analysis, subscriptions currently

account for 4% of the total games market, he forecasts it'll be 8.4% by 2027, a significant

amount of money, but still a small slice of gaming as a whole. He also points out that the total

number of Game Pass games is fairly small, hasn't been growing much. It's about a 500 games under

Game Pass. And

and that it's not like Netflix started small to and has over 2 million 200 million subscribers, he

says, But he points out that games and videos are different from each other in some important ways.

According to amperes data 79% of game spending in 2021 came from in game transactions in free to

play and paid games. That kind of behavior doesn't exist for Netflix or Spotify. So the crux of his

argument, game passes and Netflix for games style services are not going to be very big, they will

remain sort of niche. And he doesn't think that games are on the verge of a Netflix like takeover.

He's quoted as saying, I don't believe that subscriptions will become the dominant

monetization model in the game sector, as it has done progressively in the video and music sectors.

Anyone agree with his take? And Do any of you guys agree with this take?

I'm sorry. Got it. You can go to jail. I just thought if anyone was going to agree, I thought

maybe Jeff would, would would I think I think six months ago I probably would have agreed you know

as maybe you're alluding to I've been super bearish on Netflix being the Netflix of games and

and kind of the moves they've made so far. But it Game Pass. We can't ignore Game Pass. Microsoft

has made you know two massive acquisitions. One was, you know, bigger than the other. But clearly

Game Pass is why they bought Activision Blizzard, they're gonna put those titles into Game Pass day

one. So it's really hard to sit here and ignore that that exists. Like I think, you know, plus, we

saw Sony just announced a big subscription. Now they just try to add it to that. Yep. They didn't

always get with the segues nearly segue I guess. They didn't put day their games in day one. But

clearly they're moving towards a bit of a subscription

All as well. So I don't know, I think this guy will probably end up being wrong. I also want to

add to that cuz I agree that I think that this is just wrong. We covered around October November

last year.

Microsoft CEO, Satya Nadella whose bonus, who didn't hit his bonus, because the game has

subscriptions fell short. And there was a heavy component built into his contract about building

out Game Pass. And we remember focusing on that point alone was the CEO of Microsoft proper and

heavy component of his year end bonus was on game paths. And yeah, it was short, that just kind of

indicated how much emphasis and effort they're putting behind it, as well as how confident they

are in its future. So whether it's Netflix being becoming the Netflix of gaming, whether it's

Microsoft, you know, hitting these projections this year, or whether it's Sony, you know, turning

some heads with their new subscription service, I these are three very compelling arguments for why

this this opinion is wrong. But do you know, one by the argument that if most of the revenue is

coming from free to play microtransactions, right, that that as a percentage of the total revenue,

game, past subscriptions, that Game Pass style, subscriptions, will all will be always relatively

niche? If read a play and in game transactions are the majority of the dollars? Or do you believe

that that's not a good argument? Because you think people who are doing free to play will eventually

move over to Game Pass style subscriptions?

It's a good question. I mean, I think it's a little bit

it's a little bit complex, it's a lot of the free to play is including mobile. So it's like depends

how we define the gaming industry. And obviously, I think we're as guilty as anyone, I think I use

the definition that sort of suits suits best. So like, I'm happy to talk about the 2 billion gamers

out there that clearly includes mobile, but now I don't want to include mobile. So I'll kind of

acknowledge that the thing that I was gonna say and something I was thinking of that I honestly

never really thought of before. We just started this conversation that I want to get your take on.

Do we think the metaverse whatever that whatever your definition of it? Will it be a subscription?

Question.

I mean, they're

the the obvious the I think the knee jerk reaction is, it's so much of is going to be driven by in

game like in Metaverse, cosmetic purchases, that probably not right, that sort of tends towards

free to play or free to enter or however you want to describe it.

But it's a good question, because it definitely could be a subscription, right? I don't I didn't

think you had to limit your comment to everything other than mobile either, right? Like, Apple

Arcade is an all you can eat mobile games subscription. The question is how many people will

move off of free to play? Or free to enter? Or what if you're talking about the metaverse, right?

How many people will move from that to a subscription? Instead of buying? Cosmetics ala

carte, right? How many people will see the value of some kind of all you can eat subscription.

I do think the point that he that he probably is driving out I'm sure it was mentioned in the

article is just around how consumption is different, right? You, you can play games for

many, many hours, like the average gamer will maybe play. I don't know, four games a year,

obviously, some people will play 50. But even still, you know, the average person just consuming

TV content will watch 250 shows a year and like a power user might watch 1000. So I do think like

that is an inherent difference in the medium that that does not lend itself to subscription. Um, but

I just think people like Microsoft and Netflix, when these these big companies get this business

model in my head in their head, I kind of think they're just gonna, like, take a hammer to the

industry and kind of mold it to the way they want to be. Like, I don't know, it just seems like

that's where this is heading. And like, there's no choice that we have. I don't know, maybe that's

too simplistic. No, I mean, sure. All good points. I think another part of it relies on IP, like, a

lot of these free to play games are not really story rich environments. They're driven by

microtransactions. I find short things that grab attention.

But there's always going to be a need, I think for that storytelling game, that captive RPG or what

have you that people want to immerse themselves in. And I think you know, whether it's a story, a

story game, or a game that has a nice strong story, but also has multiplayer. No, we saw

Some great acquisitions at the start of this year. And we saw a lot of backlash between amongst

Microsoft and Sony. You know, when Bungie was acquired when Activision Blizzard was acquired,

like they better keep this game, you know, cross platform. And then when the index stories came

out, you know, steam tech saying, Oh, we're not going to make our own subscription service. But

we're welcome to support Microsoft on our platform. So one, you see a lot of

we see a lot of consolidation, we see a lot of these development studios that are being acquired,

that have interesting IP. And and we see a lot of, and I don't know if that correlates or not to

these gamepass type efforts to these subscription services, where they want to have a unique and

tempting catalogue to win the console wars, or at least have an edge up over the competition, apart

to is you see a big need also, for that cross platform play. How does that affect subscription

subscription services? Well, depending on who you ask, if you ask, you know, valve right there,

they're open, they're they don't want to compete, they want to support it. So I know there's a lot

of things to weigh in to consider here. But regardless of where you land on any one of these

issues, I think it's still worth saying that there's significant money and effort being spent

to develop the subscription programs, mobile console, etc.

And to expect it it I would only expect it to grow, and for them to put more resources behind

it.

I just want to read some of the comments here. Tom says is it 48% of total gaming revenue? I wonder

what the percentages of total streaming revenue of all video entertainment revenue? Tom, it is have

they used revenue as sort of the way to come up with that number. So yes.

What it would be of the total streaming revenue evolved video and entertainment about I don't

know, a smaller number I would assume. Today. Johann says why not in Metaverse subscription in

Metaverse, subscriptions to enter arenas areas resembling real life, gym memberships, etc. I

mean, that would make sense, right?

And he goes on to say think like the WoW model in the metaverse. I mean, the WoW model. Let's be

honest,

no one has been able to replicate that right in all of gaming. And I would argue that that is the

pinnacle of game monetization, in the sense that they charge an upfront fee for the game and the

expansions. They charge a monthly subscription to play the game. And they charge for in game items.

Right? Yeah, like you want a little pet, you want to buy a WoW Token for more gold in the game,

whatever. Like, it's all of the above. They just said We want all the monetization.

So I like I would think everyone would want the WoW model. The question is, what will people's

reaction to that be? And can you be undercut by free to play right? Like, this is always the

challenge with Free to Play is does it make your service seem expensive, all of a sudden, and

people aren't willing to plunk down dollars to try?

Well, the funny thing is, even fortnight has now a subscription model baked into it, you could play

fortnight free to play and that was one of the quintessential, I think examples of a successful

free to play game. And you can actually buy not not just the Battle Pass, right, which is just

gamification in rewards, but they actually have a subscription, where it's like $15 a month, it

comes with a new skin every month, as well as other rewards that you enable. Because you're part

of this, this elite subscriber base. So it is that idea of attacking it on it was I think

I think GTA just announced the same thing. I don't know if we're gonna cover that. But seems like

that's the premium subscription is now something that a lot of these games are adding, which makes

all the sense in the world. It's just like, bounce, you know, getting whatever servicing more

the demand curve. I like the idea of making it a VIP experience at but you have to have you have to

offer enough to really justify the cost and

all of it.

And I think you should be Tom's comment. Tom says I think Jeff is right about the hammer part, the

juices off and write your answers. I think it would make more sense to be a premium add on

rather than a standalone model. Yeah, I totally. I mean, we have to get to a point where they're

subscriptions that provide enough value in the metaverse right like there are there are hurdles

before I think worrying about direct monetization and like being able to connect meta verses and

interoperate between them and your avatar be able to travel between them and things like that. But

yes, I agree as an add on it makes it makes a lot of sense. As I wanted to put this story next to

the Sony story which Jeff You ruined my my segue here

but I wanted to see if this changed anyone's mind about that take right and the headline here, Sony

to make

gaming history next week, which they did this this was one article published on Friday that I pulled

next week with breakthrough business plan. It says Sony will reportedly reveal its new breakthrough

PlayStation Spartacus subscription service next week and make games history. I feel like this

author was a little bit too excited.

How Yeah, How is this not just copying what their betters have already done, crappier version of

gamepass? Cool. So they're gonna bundle PlayStation Now with PlayStation Plus, it's going

to be one offering. And here's like, I'll put this up on the board. Here's sort of what what you get.

There's three tiers 999 1299 and 1599. Which I think Game Pass is 999. I don't know if it's the

same pricing. I think Game Pass has a wider range. Jimmy, you're Jeff, if you want to check that

quickly.

But that's what we have. And does anyone think Sony's is offering here is going to make much of a

dent?

I think it will. It depends what you mean by much of a dent? I think I mean, like, are we going to

be talking about it the same way we talk about Game Pass? Because I think Game Pass? We've

mentioned multiple times, has been quite, I don't know, revolutionary use maybe too strong of a

word, but is really shaking up the games industry, I think and will continue to and see explosive

growth. PlayStation seems confused to me in the sense that, like the essential, I don't think

other than the free monthly games, you don't get access to some library, right? Yeah, I think you

only get that with the extra subscription, and the premium. So like, it's not, it doesn't feel like

all you can eat Game Pass, it feels sort of halfway between what they had now and Game Pass.

Yeah, I think this will be a decent piece of business for Sony in the sense that I think a lot

of people will look at this and say, for $3 more a month, I'll get access to some old games, like

maybe I'll play him once in a while. So I might as well just pay the extra $3. So I think they'll

they'll make a decent amount of incremental revenue. And I'm sure that incremental revenue is

very profitable. But in terms of making a dent in the industry, or this being literally something we

ever talk about, again, I would say the only time we'll ever talk about this, again, is if they put,

start putting games, you know day one into it and raise the price, which I suspect will happen in

the next 18 months. Otherwise, we'll never talk about this again.

There's no real quick road we're gonna compare with Game Pass. I see Game Pass for console at 99

a month, Game Pass for PC at 999 a month, Game Pass ultimate 1499 a month. And it's worth noting

that your first month is $1. Also, I'm pretty sure I have a discord nitro reward of Game Pass for

three months that I can gift or redeem myself, which is interesting because I thought discord had

a agreement with Sony after they have publicly shamed or embarrassed Microsoft on that $10

billion offer last year. So I thought that was amusing. I you know what I also hate about the

Sony offering, although I think I don't know if Xbox still does it at least they used to with gold

or whatever. Like, why is online multiplayer a service I'm paying for as a console owner like,

this is not like this is not 2001 this is this makes absolutely no sense to be listed as

something that I'm paying for as part of the service offering.

Playstations like services offerings. This is totally subjective. This is me my own, you know,

experience, I find they've always been incredibly confusing. I never have understood their service

offerings. I've never really understood what I get for it.

You know, I would argue Nintendo also a little bit the same like I had you have to play for pay for

online access, or like online saves or things like that just features that you would think should be

included. And that are included with a PC, right? If I buy a PC game, I can play it online. They're

not the arguments the same, right? It's costing the developer server time.

I mean, you're making a broader rant that I'm happy to tack on to because this is part of the

same argument which is like why am I paying $60 For this game, when I used to pay that for the CD

right for the disc, when they don't have distribution anymore? It's just an online

purchase. So I'm ranting because I think the PlayStation offering here is just marketed very

stupidly, right like Game Pass I think has become dead simple. It's here are all the games you can

play for $10 a month

that's not what Playstation has gone and done here. Right? It's like here's some other things

you get with it which should really be free. And and we're trying to mash together these already

confusing off

brings,

it's it felt it feels half baked, it feels like a reaction to Microsoft. And it's well thought out,

I'm sorry to interrupt, I definitely agree with you. And my add on was really to the point of, it

seems like a lot of these price points and a lot of the ways that they affect our culture, or that

the way they target, their consumer is just really outdated. And it's kind of a mesh of how things

used to be done, versus how they think it should be done. And it gets very confusing, are kind of

in need of a massive shift the way music underwent, were really, you know, out unit sales

were replaced by streaming services, and you don't really monitor measure or care about individual

album sales anymore. Um, I don't know how that works here, if you just lean all in on Game Pass,

and PlayStation Plus. But what we did see in music was, again, this massive shift away from one

economic structure and system that stopped working because of piracy, and then ended up relying on a

broader access and subscription based platform. And we haven't seen something similar, I don't

think in other mediums and other industries, which is why we have this confusion, why we have these

price points that are kind of arbitrary, why we have these marketing mechanisms that seemed to not

really address or really give you the full picture or what we want. So no, I totally agree with you

there. I'm just trying to make sense of it and comparing to an outside industry. Yeah, I always

go back to like VCs talk a lot about this product market fit, right. And I think Game Pass has

succeeded because they understand this. And things like PlayStation Plus, now God knows what, like,

they have not understood this. And things like

Google stadia, right. Like, if you understand who you're the market you're going after is and for

these all, you can eat subscriptions, for the most part. It's not the most hardcore gamer, right?

Like it's really not most hardcore gamer already probably has a pretty significant library plays

the games they want to play probably plays one or two games a lot. Like this is a more casual gamer

family kids write something that is meant to be simple, easy to understand, I don't have to worry

about it. I don't have to worry about my kid asking for the next you know, a game that comes

out there's always stuff for them to play. And an Xbox has succeeded at that right? They even

bundled it with the console for like one monthly price. It was like dead simple to understand. With

PlayStation none of this makes sense to me, right? Like I'm confused by it. And if I'm confused by

it, someone who's a more casual gamer is definitely going to be confused by it. And I

suspect like stadia when you don't have that product market fit, it's going to miss the mark.

That said it can be the next game pass but I am one of the rare people that doesn't use Game Pass.

exclusives are what make PlayStation special. Give me more Spider Man Spider Man games are Ratchet

and Clank I've literally considered just upgrading to PS five for the new Ratchet and Clank game.

Matt don't do that those games aren't that good.

That says join the meta TV discord that I can get on board with discord.gg/meta. TV. Absolutely

everyone should go join the meta TV discord where we all hang out. And you can interact with all of

us on a daily basis.

Tom says I agree with Paul confusing I have to Google the PlayStation subscription I have to see

which one it is when someone asks. Yeah, I never remember plus said now like what what they what

comes with them and what they all mean? I know I'm subscribed to one or both, but I don't even

remember no. Like it's at that level. So definitely doesn't doesn't doesn't bode well. And

I suspect it'll flop. Yeah. Did you guys see the comments? And I know this probably moving on. But

I'm curious your thoughts. There was an article in

forget games industry dot biz, where Jim Ryan had a quote basically saying, like, the reason why

they're not putting PlayStation games, you know, day one into the subscription is because it would

lower the quality of games. I guess I'm curious if you guys agree with that take? I don't think I do.

But, I mean, that was definitely not immediately, right. They're gonna put a bunch of games in the

subscription that were made before the subscription existed. They're not just magically

going to go down in quality. That's a pretty dumb take. I guess the argument would be, they would

have to spend that to make the economics work, they'd have to eventually spend less on

development.

I assume that that's

like, well, Microsoft clearly thinks that's not the case. Right? Yeah. And, and I suspect there is

some, there is some I don't know what did you call it like a balance point like a point at which that

that intersection value that intersecting value is where the kind of scale you need to get to in

terms of number of subscribers, so that you can continue to

To build the same quality of games now, do you need 50 million subscribers or 10 million

subscribers? I don't know what the number is right? Where you're sort of

at the same level of revenue as what those games in their aggregate would have otherwise generated.

It's, I think it's an okay take, the reality is like, I don't think the developers are just gonna

make worse games. It's also not like a end all be all right? Like the Game Pass subscription price

isn't the only factor that pays for these games, right? It's really to broaden their audience to

get more people playing. And then you hit them also with the microtransactions in the games,

which go back and pay for the games themselves. And the peripherals that Xbox is selling, right,

the racer, the cymric, you know, the sim rigs and monitors or keyboard, everything, everything that

these guys are selling goes into this giant mechanism. So you can't make the argument that if

we have a Game Pass price, we put these games in that pool, that we're going to have to make games

for cheaper, because I think also you borrow rights, like some of the cheaper Studios, where

they're going to attract more users, because in Game Pass, some of those cheaper studios are going

to benefit off of being in there. And it's you kind of spreading the losses around, but you're

also cross promoting or cross pollinating, I think among the different titles, where you're getting

people to try different games, you microtransactions in those different games, I'm

one of those where when I try a new game, more likely than not, I'm going to put 20 bucks or so

because I'm gonna want to look how I want to look. And I think they're kind of betting on that. I

mean, even without the microtransactions, all we have to do is look at video streaming, right? Like

Netflix itself, or Hulu or Disney or any of these services, right? Like, the quality of the content

we watch go down, I would argue anything, the quality of the content has gone up, and I suspect

it will be the same because a lot of people that are saying that that whole ecosystem is

unsustainable.

Because it creates more competition and it forces the quality to go up right because now the value

of the customer is not one game, the value of the customer becomes a lifetime value equation, right?

That you have the hopefully keep them for years and years and they're worth a lot more than just

one game. And so to compete for customers becomes much more critical, right? And that competition

creates good content and I think will create better games. I mean, their take is just wrong. I

just don't think they've thought it through fully and I don't think they've looked at what has

happened in entertainment broadly. Because that that's definitely not the outcome I see.

Which is why you should be reading the business of esports.com and that game industry dot whatever I

did whatever I thought it was

the one actual takes direct sum to the business of esports.com

we have a daily newsletter to you don't even need to go to the website have it pushed to your email

every day. But still come to the website to just yeah

alright, let's let's This is from another outlet you shouldn't be reading

because they don't have really no clue what they're talking about. This the headline is kappa

bar acquires meltdown bars, forms world's largest esports bar chain. And the story here is Swedish

esports bar and restaurant franchise kappa bar has acquired French esports bar chain meltdown bars.

So they're now this bigger group that they've become according to them the largest esports

focused bar franchise in the world with 28 locations I thought that was funny I thought like

that many locations

and they plan to open 100 venues by 2027.

How do we all feel about esports bars guys and and sort of consolidation happening in the esports bar

space. But before we dive too deeply into this, I want to tease I'm pretty sure this was discussed

on this week's episode. Office hours with a professor you guys all know and love William

Kahless. been with us since the beginning. Williams new spin off show office hours with a

professor comes out once a week. One deep dive discussion. One topic William finds interesting.

This is the topic for this week. So if you miss William, you want to hear

you know his voice and his perspective. If you're interested in esports bars, you know, that should

be pushed on this same feed for our podcasts and audio listeners. And it's on our YouTube and on

our website as well for everyone else.

I'm sure nobody nobody Mrs. Williams voice.

Students is evening all by the way. And Tom says I heard the professor's rating and won't spoil it. I

mean, we can talk about it, Tom if you'd like and I'm curious. Tom, did you agree with his rating or

not? Let's put it that way.

Jeff, go ahead.

I want to know, because I always be

the i i Didn't I don't know, I don't have this, like, I guess. I just don't know.

If there's not much demand for this, like I'm much more bullish on on kind of the land center model,

and I'm not sure, nothing that I saw it at least when I listened to Williams take, I didn't see any

incorporation of that, like, either land center aspect or or just more gamification I, I just saw

described as basically these are sports bars, but they're going to have esports on the TVs, like,

for me that's going to, that's going to turn away more people than it's going to bring in. I think,

I just, I don't Maybe I'm being too bearish. Now, obviously, I work in this industry, so I shouldn't

be, but I just don't know if there's that much demand.

You know, to go to these things, I think the problem is, is there's no visuals here, I don't

know what it looks like. And anything on paper can sound however the author and your imagination make

it seem to sound. So you know, like, at exit, we announced a partnership with drays nightclub in

Vegas, kind of a an activation with a nightclub one step higher, I think than a bar in terms of

just like the rage factor, but also equally ambiguous as to like, what does that look like?

Because I haven't shown you what the activation in the nightclub in Vegas looks like. So when I think

of these esports bars, and I'm sure if we go deeper into the story, and I'm sure William gets

into this as well, on his show, you can kind of illustrate I think, what to expect. But without

having, honestly the deck in front of me where I'm seeing the architectural designs and layouts, the

projections, it's a very hard thing.

Because it does rely so much on imagination. And I've seen amazing creative firms that can take

simple ideas like this and really bring it to life. That doesn't change. I think Jeff's point

which comes next, which is well once you build it, will they come? Or will this kind of alienate and

segregate communities as opposed to opening them up? What I can say on that front is my very first

date with my fiancee, I took her to one of those classic arcade bars, you know, they had all the

pinball machines, they had all the old school like 80s arcade machines, rampage and like the the

bartender one where you felt the glasses, and we had so much fun. And that was kind of like my nerd

culture, my gaming culture, drinks, good food, and then kind of something that she wouldn't have gone

with with any other guy, I hope. But so to that same point here, do we get that same experience

here, right, where it becomes a welcoming bar that open? It's open anyone that wants to drink? And

they kind of knows gaming's cool? Or is this really

just for people that like that kind of thing? You know, it's like the potential antithesis of an

Irish bar, which is open to everybody that wants to drink because they know what to expect there. I

think it's it was it was kind of to your point, Jeff. Look, I will Tom mentions it so great

inflation a but he was excited. I think he was on track. Yeah, you know,

you should go watch the video everyone like it's a great episode, office hours with the professor. He

mentioned minutes to write Paul. So yeah, quick, quick, quick lesson five minutes. In fact, he

mentioned three reasons why including, you know, potential for content. And that could be

relatively easy to scale, things like that. So I won't ruin the episode, you should go listen to

office hours with the professor. But he William does give some good reasons for why the merger

makes sense. The question I have for you guys is Do you like the idea of a an esports? Bar? And

I'll define it as you know, a place you can go drink, watch esports?

For the most part, right? That's maybe gaming themed, but targeted at an adult crowd because

there's alcohol, right? Or would you rather have at least in North America, because we should limit

it in some way? Or would you rather have a land center right, like a place to go to, to play games

and compete with your friends that is not age limited. The hard part about the bar part, as

opposed to the land Center is a lot of at least watching it. A lot of why Twitch is so successful

is the connectivity that the audience has directly with who they're watching. And maybe I'm taking

this into content creators and less of esports, which have the tournaments and the competitive

element. So correct me or redirect me if I'm broadening your hype, you're, it's hypothetical

too much. But right, like if you're going to put on Twitch and watch, like a tournament, that's one

thing, if I'm going to in that in the random hours at the bars open where there's nothing going on

that weekend. I'm gonna just leave Twitch on Well, there's no way for me in the bar to type in the

chat to x QC or to whoever I'm watching. So it's a little different in terms of I think we're that

audience. Why that audience normally why

and also how that content creator or that channel reacts with the audience. So personally, I'm more

in favor of the land centers. Because I've been to some great land centers. We had esports arena on

the podcast a few months ago, based here in Orange County, but with dozens of locations around the

United States, including inside multiple Walmart's and I've been to their Wednesday night fight

nights. They have a beer and liquor license. You know, you're getting a drink, and you're watching

people play Smash ultimate, you're watching Mortal Kombat. And they're playing live there in front of

you. Very fun environment, different experience. That's my preference. Yeah, keep in mind the I

think the melt most of the meltdown locations have like things you can play, right? But they're more

like console or social game or things like Smash, right? Where multiple people are gathered around.

Maybe Francois can give us some details because actually haven't been to a meltdown. And he says

there's one meltdown in Montreal, it's where I always hang out, usually. But it's more than just

watching. Right. So let's know more about it. I'm curious what the chat thinks in terms of like,

would you rather own a pure land center open to all ages? Or do people like the idea of a more

adult audience bar, it's about the viewing and maybe more about social games, and not so much

hardcore gaming of any kind. So one thing about the viewing that I want to add from a business

owners perspective is when you have these land centers, or when you allow anyone to play games,

you need all that equipment, right. And, you know, I for my bachelor party, which was a few months

ago, we went to Atlanta center for part of the festivities. And I got to speak with the owner and

learn about their location in Chicago. And this is mid lane esports. By the way, if you guys are

listening outside Chicago had the best time my reviews are get, by the way are getting 1000s of

views on Google Maps, it's so funny. Um, but I remember talking with them and them saying, you

know, the, a lot of the problem is these kids and these players get so frustrated, they break the

controllers, or they break the equipment. And it's not a matter of being able to, or rather just a

matter of being able to replace, because the kids will pay for whatever they break, you know, it's

part of the terms, but it's just a matter of being able to find more and replace more. So I do like,

now, now that we're talking through this, that if you're watching type of facility, that that

concern, the need for certain high speed internet, the need for you know, 20 or 100 stations that can

that you can hook up a PC or a console, or both to the all these places where they just have monitors

with interchangeable parts. You remove a ton of overhead, and you kind of simplify the experience.

So that you know, there's pros and cons, I suppose to both Yeah, I think no doubt the capital cost

opening land center is definitely greater. Yeah, that's what you just kind of touched on. But I do

think if you open a land center and do it right, it's a lot easier to build a community and bring

people in. I think if you open one of these bars, you have to then find the community find what they

like, find what games they like, and you really have to probably build, you know, seven or eight

different communities, right? Because if there's a League of Legends big tournament going on, it's

probably not the same people you're going to bring in if there's, you know, a big FIFA tournament or,

you know, a big NBA 2k tournament. It's just not but they're coming for the drinking. Right. So

that's the draw that is somewhat universal. And like, comment, he says, imagine an Irish bar, but

with gaming stuff. Even land senators can have bar. So I guess my point is, like, if I'm a big

League of Legends fan, and there's NBA touquet tournament that weekend, like I could care less

about Congress bar, I'll just go to any bar. Right? Like, it's just, I don't know that it you.

I think it would be a lot harder than you would think. The premise of this kind of takes that

gamers are very homogenous. And that if you're a gamer, you want to go to a gamer bar, because

they'll be games on the TV. But frankly, like if, if there's League of Legends, I might walk in and

be like, This is terrible. I'm out of here. But if there's FIFA might be like, Oh, well, this is

cool. I'll stay. I think that like most gamers fall somewhere in that spectrum. It's a good

point, that here's I think where my take on this lies, though. And it says the subtle rebuttal of

your of your take here, which is given the option, right of going to a bar where I have no guarantee

of finding any gamers versus going to a bar where I find people who appreciate some games, maybe not

the exact games I appreciate. I probably go you know, probably go to a bar where I'll find some

gamers given the option, right? All other things being equal. And so I definitely see a market for

this and I like it. I think I like it better. At least in North America, as a as some like not

instead of land centers, but call it wherever you land center, maybe two or three of these bars

because I think they do appeal to the kind of person who wants to go out that

Is into gaming but may not go to a land center, right prefers people who go to a land center, it's

because they want to play somewhere that's not their home with people who are not in their home,

right? It's a very kind of specific outing versus a bar, you could just go to three nights a week to

drink and have fun with your friends. I don't I don't recommend drinking at a bar three nights a

week. But you know,

you could. And I think if you look at the land centers, that least that I'm aware of, almost all

of them make way more money on food and beverage than they do on the land center itself. Right. And

so throw an alcohol there, you know, probably is more profitable and lower costs than a land

center.

But

outside of North America may may be totally different, right? Maybe I think the dynamics would

be different. And I think it would, this would not be as interesting as the land center.

Stewart says, Paul, you've just described the gaming version of Tinder. Well, I see all kinds of

opportunities for gamer dating.

Especially if you have gamer bars, I mean that they should go hand in hand. I think the second

week in a row. We've talked about gaming Tinder, I have to just start to do it. Yeah, pretty sure we

talked about this last week.

All right, guys, that before we get to the next section here, actually, I want to just read this

comment of also says, you'd be surprised, Jeff, the land centers have a harder time here than the

thematic gaming bars. We have a couple.

So there you have it. Interesting anecdotal evidence there. What's that? I'm saying that's why

I love doing this show. Because I like, like being told I'm wrong. That's why it's so important that

we do the show live. And we encourage our listeners to join live. Because then we get some

awesome comments like that from Francoise and Stuart, right? Because, you know, we're putting on

our tinfoil hats here. And your your opinions are just as valuable and we love including you in the

conversation. I just want to share that right now. Cuz I know we have so many listeners that listen

throughout the week, you know, while they're working out or while they're offline. But if you

can make it Wednesday nights, 830. Eastern, everywhere that you can find anything on live

stream, YouTube, LinkedIn, Twitter, Twitch trovo, forgetting Facebook, I'm forgetting a few. But

if you're there were there. Guys, I just want to I want to remind everyone also this live stream,

very generously sponsored by YouGov.

They're great supporters of the live stream, they provide the absolute best data on gamers, games

esports fans around the world. If you're looking for really actionable data on any of those

audiences, and you're looking at the gaming audience as a potential opportunity for you your

business, you definitely need to be talking to the fine folks at you. gov, you can reach out to them

directly or you can reach out to any one of us. And we can connect you with them. I will post a

link in the chat. It's you gov.com/boe. It's even simpler than it used to be. I don't know. I think

there's some stuff up there now. But we're going to there's going to be more there. So keep

visiting that link. Keep checking it

as time goes on, because we're going to try and put real value added stuff there for you guys. You

gov.com/boe And make sure to go show you give some love. Guys. You know what this?

This means, right? Because I've got a few smaller stories here. I think we might have to do

everyone's favorite new segment. What do you say? Yeah, lightning round. I was a waiter

Alright, were those unfamiliar if you're new here, our lightning round I give all of us actually

including myself. 30 seconds to give your quick take on on a number of topics. We're going to go

through these really quickly. We'll try and go in alternating order guys. So Jimmy, then Jeff and

Jeff and Jimmy. And I'll I'll you know, finish everyone.

But let's start with

gaming desks. Right? Let's start with an easy one. Probably Jeff's favorite here. By the way. If you

go over time, you're gonna hear this sound, which means you're we're over your time.

Alright guys, here's the first story.

By frost gaming desk lets you build your dream battle station. Now what it is basically, it's a

pegboard. For those who you know who haven't your garage is like pegboards for your tools. It's like

a pegboard. But for all your gaming accessories and stuff to put behind your desk or it connects

to the desk that they also have

And you see you mount all your things here to it including your coke on the side here that mounts

to the desk and all your plants and Nintendo and everything else all your accessories. love, hate.

Think this is great. By the way, you can hide all your cables too. We haven't seen much innovation

in gaming desks, we talk a lot about gaming chairs. Jimmy YOU LOVE the gaming this gaming desk

concept. You know, I'm a fan of organization in general, I got some pretty gnarly OCD and I my

things have to be a certain way. This kind of reminds me of the IKEA one strangely enough, but

it for anyone that's watching, it looks really cool. If you're listening, check them out. I think

it's hard to find, or I would be hard to find someone that doesn't think this looks cool. But I

would definitely use this and you know, especially if they sent me one for free by frost.

Jeff, I like this a lot. I mean, it's good for accessorizing I can accessorize all my pens and

behind them very excited. I'm just gonna need to hire a TaskRabbit because I'm not very handy. So

no way I have it back together myself.

You know, I like it. I like it a lot. I think it's so cool guys, desk innovation, we may have to get

on board with desk reviews the same way we're the official gaming chair reviewer of esports. I think

we need to get on board with some desk reviews if we start seeing some innovation there. All right,

let's get to more serious one. This one's cool motorsport games partners with HOMAG Kosha to

assist in the development of our factor two, and esports events. Joining as a technical advisor

GORGEOU will help iterate our factor two, and the company's robust live esports events. This is

really cool motorsport games makes racing games partnering with a real ex f1 driver at this point.

curious what you guys think. But also, why don't we see this more in like real sports games like

other sports titles like they're there other than the name, you never hear about them partnering

with like an actual athlete to make the game better? Jeff, start with you. Yeah, I think it's a

great, it's a great example. I mean, motorsports is definitely one of the it's the esport that

probably has the most crossover between the actual sport and the video game. I think we've even done

stories in the past where like, motorsport athletes end up crossing over into the real thing,

which I think is always pretty neat to see. So good on motorsports, obviously, you know, leaning

into that. I think our factor two is, is a pretty impressive game. You know, in terms of simulate

simulation, it's probably the best out there. And definitely exciting to to bring him on board.

Jimmy YEAH. It's your point. It's like, Why isn't anyone else doing this? I I've, I've said before,

and I'm gonna say, again, is I think the way the racing community has embraced esports is really

how it should be done. You don't see a lot of other sports, other traditional meat sports, that

are really leaning into this movement to this community, or to the technology and the

overlapping that are readily available, as well as, as the racing community has. So hats off to

motorsport, you're,

you know, maybe they'll get Lewis Hamilton next year.

For paws benefit

f1

This is this working?

This is the one with the Bulldog, right, yeah, he's the best

I'm good on on who they picked here. I think a woman is a, you know, a great f1 Driver,

unfortunately, whose career ended, you know, not, not in not the most great way, you know, you know,

very fiery crash. And it's nice to see sort of a second life and esports for these guys. And I

think big pickup for motorsport, right? That's just a really big name. Really, really big name.

It's the equivalent of having, you know, like a, maybe like a Tom Brady, right? Like, it's a

really, there's only 20 f1 drivers in the world at any one time. So any of these guys are pretty big

names. So big pickup. I like to see this. Hopefully our factor two is even. Even better,

right that this can only make the game better. Oh, very cool. All right, guys, let's, let's talk

about Amazon.

I have two Amazon stories. So we're gonna do these back to back here. The first one may be less good

news. The second one I think more good news. And the headline here Amazon game studio head for Xeni

steps down so the head of Amazon game studio stepping down. He's leaving to focus on his

family.

He said he supposedly he was there at the beginning of Amazon games. He was involved with

new world last Stark obviously there was a very nice letter saying they wish him all the best

thankful for his contributions etc.

What do you guys think of this? Amazon game studio has had a checkered college history, right?

Is this a bad sign? Do we buy that it's about family is it just burnt out after you know all the

ups and downs of being an Amazon game studio?

Curious what you make this Jimmy, go ahead.

You know, I want to draw everyone's attention to the business of esports episode with Facebook

gaming's head of strategy and operations, John pan. Before he was with Facebook, John was

actually over at Amazon, because of a lot of the red tape on the things that he was in wasn't able

to say, given his posting at Facebook, we actually talked a lot about his time with Amazon about his

time with riot. And it was a really fun episode. I also teach with John at University of California,

Irvine in their esports track, Episode 178. Sorry, Paul, I'm using my time.

Stay away. I'll be good. There you go.

178.

That was a great shout out for it start my time over. I feel like you I'm resetting the clock. Go

ahead.

Yeah, I mean, I, I believe this, you know, I think, you know, Mike przy. I think he's been

there for quite some time. And if I recall, he wasn't always in gaming. So he's had a pretty long

and distinguished career at Amazon, I assume, probably made a lot of money. So guys like that

tend to tend to retire. I do remember there was a bunch of some negative articles kind of around

maybe his leadership and maybe a lack of understanding of the gaming market prior to the

last couple Amazon releases, which have obviously done a lot better. It's a big job in the industry.

It'd be interesting to see who takes it. I mean, it's a huge opportunity. Andy Jassy the current

CEO has said, games are a priority. So this is going to be a big high paying job for someone

curious, see who takes the leap? Any any theories?

Kind of added, I get the bell. This is like

legally, I can't say the Jews, but you know, they're people they can call my people. Yeah.

But Amazon is Amazon. Yeah, I mean, I look, I hope I wish him the best, obviously, hope it was a you

know, mutually

agreed upon kind of departure.

I just think because of how much new world failed with so much potential, you know, I having new

leadership was needed, right that they had such they had a potential goldmine with new world. And,

and I don't know how they mess that up. I mean, I do know how they mess that up. But

so much potential there. I think new blood will hopefully bring new ideas and new approaches. And,

you know, Amazon has all the resources in the world to make great games. So hopefully they do.

Second Amazon story, guys, this one. The headline here is Amazon launches AWS for games, dedicated

products and services for the gaming industry. So AWS, Microsoft, and Google are all stepping up

their pitches to game developers and publishers. as the industry grows. Now, Amazon's throwing

their hat in the ring, obviously, they have a specific AWS product for the gaming industry, like

cloud gaming, obviously gaming workloads in the in the cloud.

And now I think what's interesting is when people talk about cloud gaming, it's more like about this

right? Not so much playing games in your browser. I love stadia it's more like what is the infor

cloud infrastructure for game developers and games?

You guys love this move from Amazon, you know, is this maybe bigger opportunity than their game

studio? Jeff, start with you. I'm gonna I'm gonna have to do on this one a little bit. To me. This

is something that Amazon was already doing. I think like, almost probably every single gaming

studio uses AWS I know Activision does, I think take two does. Our EA may use Google, but I'm not

sure like most companies use AWS. I think they just are seeing gaming as a big opportunity. And

maybe they're putting a little more focus into marketing to gaming studios as maybe they're

seeing a lot of money flowing into kind of web through gaming and yada yada yada. But I would

like to see the products behind this to me this strikes me as something where it's worth words

like they're just focusing on it from a sales perspective more and I'm not sure there's actually

product

shipping there. But no, no, no, no, no, you're you're, you're you're sleeping on the bell. This

whole thing is a facade. It's the

US was at GDC in San Francisco was really fun to meet with them, speak with them. hinting of course

here that I believe we'll be having them on the show in the near future. So stay tuned for that.

supportive of what they're doing. And I think that if you're going to create a cloud based gaming

solution that it has to start with someone like AWS, um, they can't do much worse than Google so

sky's the limit.

I mean, I don't know why Jeff, you're fussed about like, whether it's renaming an existing product,

or it's a brand new product sort of doesn't matter, right? It's just, it's smart marketing to,

to launch a specific product, again, whether its underlying something that's the same, or it's

something that they've totally new that they've invented. I suspect not. I think it's really just

a rebrand of an existing product stack. I still think it's smart, right? That you have an industry

that's growing, might as well sell them something and make them feel like they're buying something

specific, especially if your competitors offering something specific. Hardware BBQ says, I still

feel cloud gaming has a long way to go. But we're getting close. I mean, definitely not stadia cloud

gaming hardware BBQ, I hate to break that one to you. Data Center deployment for cloud gaming would

be interesting to see how it grows.

Again, when we talk about cloud gaming, I'm really talking about infrastructure for normal games,

like, like, who's running the servers for Call of Duty, right when I think this is the better

definition of cloud gaming, not how can I play Call of Duty in my browser on my Chromebook

that that has failed and I think is dead and gone and no one should be talking about that anymore.

So

hard work so they better not delete my Mass Effect three games saves for the me. I need those

character developments.

I can't guarantee anything harder BBQ. Alright, I just want to mention this one I missed Tom says

that desk is amazing. Only $500 could be worth it. Organization is important for 500 bucks. I agree.

Totally worth it sold on Amazon. Yeah.

Alright guys, let's move on to the next story.

We've got EA here in the news. And we finally have confirmation or at least reported confirmation

that EA will reportedly move forward with plans to rebrand FIFA as EA Sports FC so we have a name now

at least right we've been theorizing what the name is going to be. So it looks like FIFA is going

away and it's going to be EA Sports football club or EA Sports FC for short. Very quickly. Jimmy,

you love the name or you don't name is fine. It's not going to do anything. I mean, whoever plays

and loves FIFA will probably still call it FIFA but will also continue to purchase EA FIFA Club

FC. So I think they're saving a ton of money ton of headache. And you know good for them.

Jeff Yeah, I totally agree with Jimmy. I think most people will probably still call it FIFA. I

think this is great and that it saves them I feel like I remember something like to something

egregious like $200 million a year.

I've made that number up but it was something substantial. So yeah, interesting to see where

they what they what they do with that money, you know, they invest in other games like Apex legends

did they return the capital of shareholders, they pay into their CEO and a bonus who knows any of

those are possible.

Agar BBQ says I'm just and there's a word missing your hardware barbecue, so I'm not sure. Are you

mad? Are you sad? Are you happy? I'm just

is the most important word in the sentence. I'm just they're not calling it soccer. So you either

love or you hate that they're not calling it soccer.

Like Pro Evolution Soccer.

That we're missing that word, barbecue. We need that words.

Alright, let's, let's move on. Glad. There you go. I'm glad they're not calling it soccer. I think

they know their market is not primarily North America. So

it that makes total sense. As this is the last last story in the lightning round I want to get to

and it's maybe the most silly, but I just love the headline. The headline here after 22 years esports

giant ninjas in pajamas, finally releases pajamas. And so this is Swedish esports team. They've been

around 22 years. Big Counter Strike Team Stockholm based. They're obviously called ninjas in pajamas.

But up until now they've not sold pajamas. Now for $110. You can get silk effect polyester and how

it's silk effect. Polyester is just polyester, I think a two piece outfit.

Sporting subtle neon embroidery of an IPS logo.

And

there you go. I can't describe it better than that. Unfortunately, if you're listening to this,

I don't know how to describe it other than their black silky looking pajamas.

Did they wait the right amount of time guys to come out with pajamas? When you're called

in pajamas or or should they have waited a little bit longer Jeff

I mean if they were gonna wait 22 years they should have at least made it a quarter century

like

let's do it on the right interval but it is shocking that they never thought to do this in the

past and it's also shocking that they chose to do $110 You know silk effect polyester I think they

could have done like a range like maybe people would want a little bit cheaper product maybe some

of the even more high end but

yes this you're calling this a ripoff Jimmy price is outrageous.

Also like Yeah, how did you wait that long to do something so obvious? You're not building any more

hype by the extra you know 20 years beyond your two and when it when this could have launched?

At least it's not a hoodie? I'll say that. At least it's not

a little more stole my take

I'm glad to be right then.

No, it's It's one of those things.

How much do you want to bet that we see literally every other esports team do a pajama now right

we're gonna see 100 Thieves do a pajama you're gonna see FES do a pajama you're gonna see them

all do pajamas now

because that's what happens I think they're they're leading the way with dramas nicely

Cool, thank you

alright guys, that's that's that ends this week's lightning round. I hope everyone enjoyed that.

Let me get get us back to our normal show

I just want to read Tom's comment. He says the lightning round is the best part of the show.

Great addition Can I license that intro? Tom for a fee anything is possible. Hardware BBQ says still

a better story than half life three rumors.

I won't be I don't think we'll be covering half life three rumors anytime soon. Because Half Life

three is never coming out. Our door barbecue says I'm happy ninjas in pajamas isn't getting into

crypto and NFT yet. I mean, I feel like all the sports teams basically have to at some point.

Otherwise people start asking why they're not.

But yeah, that guys wraps up both the lightning round and this week's show.

I hope everyone enjoyed that. Thank you all for coming. Jimmy. Jeff. Thank you guys. Thank you to

everyone who participated Tom hardware barbecue Johann Stuart Khosla. All you guys Matt, Adam,

everyone who came in participated. Really appreciate all you guys. Make sure to join the

discord. Its discord GG slash meta TV.

And make sure go follow us everywhere. Everywhere you find business of esports content, tick tock

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YouTube yet make sure you go follow that and subscribe to the podcast business of esports Mehta

business Mehta woman, all the podcasts we put out every week, business of esports guys is now

putting out like almost four pieces of podcast content a week. So you get sometimes one or two

podcast episodes, you get the weekly news show. You get Office Hours all from one convenient feed.

I mean, it's like it's it's a smorgasbord of, of business of esports content. Tom says always fun

thank you Tom hardware BBQ says Have a good evening and have consequences. Great show. As

always. Thank you guys.

Don't forget the future is fun. And we will see you guys next week.