Anna Parker-Naples helps business owners launch podcasts and get booked as a guest on other peoples’ shows. She is also the host of her own podcast Entrepreneurs Get Visible.

But despite having built a large and engaged audience on a number of content platforms, she is struggling to grow her audience on Instagram.

In this live coaching interview, I help Anna identify why her Instagram account isn’t growing and what she needs to do to achieve her target of 10k Instagram followers. 

We also dig into Anna’s feelings about not being able to grow her following as quickly as she’d like to on the platform.

Key moments

[4:00] How Anna feels about her struggle with Instagram - given the fact she’s built a large audience on other content platforms

[7:45] How the social media algorithm works - and what kind of content you need to post to attract your ideal customers/clients (a quick explainer from me)

[15:03] Why the ‘Top 9’ posts on your Instagram grid (i.e. the ones that appear on the top) are super important when it comes to attracting new followers

[15:35] Anna answers a tough question: ‘would your ideal clients follow you based on your ‘Top 9’ posts?

[23:19] Janet explains how having content pillars can help you grow your audience on Instagram (and what they are)

[24:00] Anna and Janet discuss how Instagram Reels could help Anna grow her following - fast 

[30:00] Dilemma: Anna wonders how she can balance the kind of content she wants to publish with what her audience wants/needs

[32:00] Janet explains that Instagram growth only happen when you meet your ideal followers’ needs (both practical and emotional)

[36:53] Anna asks whether adding ‘covers’ to her Instagram Reels is helping or hindering her growth

[40:00] Janet talks about importance of testing content to see what ‘lands’ with your audience 

[42:00] Janet summarises what she feels Anna needs to do to grow her account to 10k

Key Links

Janet Murray’s Courageous Content Planner

Janet Murray’s Courageous Podcasting Content Kit

Janet Murray’s Courageous Planner Launch Content Kit

Janet Murray's Courageous Blog Content Kit

Save £30 on my Courageous Email Lead Magnet Content Kit using the code MAGNET67.

Save £30 on my Business Basics Content Kit using the code PODCAST67.

Save £30 on my Courageous Launch Content Kit using the code PODCAST67.

Janet Murray’s Courators Kit

Janet Murray’s FREE Ultimate Course Launch Checklist

Anna Parker - Naples website 

Anna Parker -Naples socials: Facebook Instagram

Anna’s podcast

Anna’s book Get Visible`

Janet Murray’s website

Instagram

Facebook

LinkedIn

Janet Murray on Twitter

Janet Murray on TikTok

IMPORTANT: THIS TRANSCRIPT IS AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED. WE GIVE IT A QUICK CHECK THROUGH BUT WE DON’T CORRECT EVERYTHING AS IT’S INTENDED TO HELP YOU FIND PARTS YOU WANT TO LISTEN TO AGAIN - NOT AS AN EXACT TRANSCRIPT. SO THERE MIGHT BE A FEW QUIRKY WORDS/PHRASES HERE!

:: 00:00

It's frustrating because many of my peers now they've hit the 10 K. They started in business around the same time as me. They've hit that 10 K and then they've just been scaling 20, 30, 40 K Anna polka. Nichols helps business owners, launch podcasts and get booked as a guest on other people's shows. She's also the host of her own call. Cast entrepreneurs get visible,

:: 00:21

but despite having built a sizeable and engaged audience on a number of content platforms, she is struggling to grow her audience on Instagram. Instagram has always been that final frontier. The one that I've not yet conquered. And as we came into 2021, I wrote down, I am going to hit 10 K on Instagram, and then things have happened in the business.

:: 00:41

And I haven't been able to give it as much attention as I would like In this live coaching interview. I help Anna identify why her Instagram account isn't working and what she needs to do to achieve her aim of 10,000 Instagram followers. We also dig into Anna's feelings about not being able to grow her following on the platform. Oh, it's just annoying because we're now producing podcasts and having our clients some of the best in the world in the online space and in the motivational space,

:: 01:08

my numbers don't reflect the rest of the business and the rest of my brand. You're listening to the courageous content podcast. I'm Janet Murray, and I love helping coaches creatives and entrepreneurs create super engaging content that generates leads and sales for their businesses. No one starts a business and just knows how to create engaging content. It's a skill that has to be learned from practice,

:: 01:33

and there's always something new to learn, no matter how long you've been in business. And I know running an online business can feel messy, perfectionism, fear self-doubt and other mindset stuff can stop you showing up online in the way that's best for you. So you'll get help with that too. Where did you get courageous with your content? Let's get started.

:: 01:58

Welcome Anna. And first off, thank you for agreeing to do this coaching interview. I know it's quite a vulnerable and scary thing to do, and I really appreciate that. So could you start by telling me a bit about your relationship with Instagram? I have built a very strong platform. Ava, on my own podcast, entrepreneurs get visible with many,

:: 02:22

many, many downloads there every single week. That's my main platform. I'm also really hot on working Facebook because that feels like my home. I understand it more. I feel like I grew up with Facebook and I'm not a very visual person. So Instagram has always been that final frontier. The one that I've not yet conquered. And as we came into 2021,

:: 02:44

I wrote down, I am going to hit 10 K on Instagram and then things have happened in the business. And I haven't been able to give it as much attention as I would like. So I am open. I talk all the time on my own show, Janet about the fact that I don't feel comfortable on Instagram or that I try it. And then I stop.

:: 03:02

And so I am all ears. Remarkably got me a little bit sweaty and hot under the collar. Just thinking about this, even though I was totally up for getting feedback and having a critique, I have Searchie several times a day, please be kind Brilliant. Thanks so much for being brave. So tell me about why you don't feel comfortable on Instagram.

:: 03:28

I think it's more that I know on Facebook and LinkedIn, I can get engagement much more easily and much more quickly. And I understand how those platforms work. As I said to you, I'm not a visual person at all. I come from an NLP background, neuro-linguistic programming and people, you can work out, whether someone is more visual, more auditory,

:: 03:49

more kinesthetic, which is more about how they feel about something. And for me, when I kind of embrace that work, the visual things just don't, it just isn't my language. If you like, whereas audio and words are. And so when Instagram was first becoming a tool that I was aware people were using for business, it was the one I didn't come over to initially.

:: 04:10

And I guess I, then that's kind of followed through with the rest of the business. Now I've got just under 3000 followers, eight for that at the moment, but I'm not consistent on there because I still find it harder to get the engagement. And sometimes when you're not getting that back, you're not getting the people messaging you there so much. It's easier just to go to the platforms will look,

:: 04:31

I know these are working. I've got a highly engaged Facebook group. I've got people who will message me all the time over on LinkedIn. And so, because the business is working and we're well established, this is the platform we've just not given that attention to. And how does it feel to know you're really good at building audiences and creating, engaging content,

:: 04:53

but to have this one platform, Instagram that isn't working in the way that you'd like it to, It feels, Ugh, that's actually a word it's frustrating because many of my peers now, you know, they've hit the 10 K. They started in business around the same time as me. They've hit that 10 K and then they've just been scaling 20, 30, 40 K.

:: 05:15

Oh, it's just annoying because I'm now working. We're now producing podcasts and having our clients some of the best in the world in the online space and in the motivational space. And so if someone is a native and comfortable Instagram user, my numbers don't reflect the rest of the business and the rest of my brand. So that's frustrating. And I'm also aware that over the years,

:: 05:40

I've outsourced to various people and they've told me the wrong techniques, or they've told me they know what they're doing. And then they, in fact, don't and that's possibly damaging my account. And it was actually just earlier this year that I decided to write, I'm going to embrace doing reels guarantee. You get more active on the platform. And then I fell off again.

:: 06:02

Okay. And talk to me about what you've done on other platforms that works for you. Oh no, that's, that's really hard. I guess, like I said to you, I felt like I grew up with Facebook when Facebook first first was having groups. I was actually disabled and I was in a very housebound and very cutoff. My life looked very,

:: 06:23

very different and I felt that being part of Facebook groups long before I came into use it for business. I cottoned on to the fact that there's this connection and the community that you can build over there, whether you're in a group or on your own Facebook profile. So a lot of what I do actually uses my profile more than my Facebook page. We put more the professional side of me on my Facebook page,

:: 06:48

the repurposing of content, the re-purposing of podcasts, re-purposing of quotes that we've made in the past. Whereas my profile actually is often where I kind of entice people in and that's where I'm communicating with people in my own group. And in other Facebook groups, You've actually made a few really important points there that will really help with your Instagram. So hang on to these two words,

:: 07:12

you've talked about community and you've talked about connection. I think I know the answer to this, but where do you get most engagement on your Facebook page or on your personal profile? My profile every time. Why? Because I share more of me. That's the answer and the algorithms are on my side. The algorithm is a super secret formula that determines who our content gets shown to and who it doesn't.

:: 07:39

So when Anna talks about the algorithm being on her side, she seems to be suggesting that perhaps the algorithm is more favorable on her personal Facebook account than on her page. And that's just not true. The way the algorithm works on most social media platforms is the more people who engage with your content. So by that, I mean the more comments, the more shares,

:: 07:59

the more people will be shown your content. So if people are not interacting with the content on her Facebook page, it's because the content is not as engaging as the content you're sharing on her Facebook profile. This is something I'll pick up on later in our conversation. So you said on your Facebook profile that you share, you said, I share more of me on my Facebook page.

:: 08:22

I share links to my latest podcast, things that I'm up to in my business. Yeah. When you say, when you post on your personal profile, it's more of a may, what do you mean? I'm not one of those people that is sharing everything that the children have done, but it might be the place where if I was crafting a very intentional story about elements of my past,

:: 08:48

that I want my audience to connect with in some way it would be on my profile first and we might put it onto my page later, if it does well, if we get a lot of engagement from it, it is where I might be sharing. Say, for example, this weekend I went and did some laser tagging. So that's fun. And so people see that,

:: 09:06

that more fun side, I suppose. Whereas on the page, we keep it a bit more, how you, the content that might be on a website, the kind of polished lip. Talk to me about a post on your personal Facebook profile. That's got loads of comments and engagement. I can't think of one really recently, but I'll tell you the one that's had the most ever.

:: 09:28

And that was, I won two awards in one evening and it had something like 900 comments within the space of an hour. And it wasn't obviously the image is that, you know, I'm celebrating something. It was really clear about that. But the post was about the journey T that and how I felt about, about those achievements, not just the achievement themselves,

:: 09:51

but actually what it feels like to go. I've gone to this particular awards evening. Not really expecting to when I'd gone on my own, which cause my husband couldn't make it. We couldn't get a babysitter. So there were actually, the evening had been quite uncomfortable, even though I won because I was sat with people who didn't want to engage and that got an astonishing amount of interaction.

:: 10:13

So this stuff is really important and they were going to talk about Instagram, hang on to those words, community and connection. They're really important. And there's another word which I think will come up, but we'll, we'll get there in just a second. One thing, a lot of people don't know actually is that it's so, so interesting is that your Facebook profile,

:: 10:34

strictly speaking, according to Facebook's terms, we're not really supposed to use them to promote our businesses. And for me, that's just so interesting because why does it work? Because when we're on that personal family and friends, when we're in that space, we're often creating the kind of content that people really engage with and they engage with on a very personal level.

:: 10:58

But when we get onto our Facebook pages, we don't get very much engagement because we changed the content. And when people are struggling with engagement on any platform, it's often because they're slipping out of that lovely family and friends approach and that lovely, relatable content that people just can't help, but comment on. And then moving towards the more corporate business likes stuff and there is a place for it,

:: 11:22

but that's all really interesting. That context is so, so interesting. So thanks for that. I know we're talking about Instagram, but that's really helpful. So we're going to have a look at your Instagram account now, and then it Makes me want to die Now. And as this is audio, I'm going to have to ask you to describe some things to me.

:: 11:38

So I'm on your Instagram account now, which is Anna Parker. Naples. We will put a link in the show notes. So if you're somewhere safe where you can look at Anna's account alongside us, brilliant, if you're driving or on the treadmill at the gym, please do that. But if you are somewhere where you can look, this is going to be helpful for you.

:: 11:57

So Anna, tell me about, Instagram's got five different spaces now. So it's got your grid. It's also got stories. It's also got Instagram rails, which is new. We've got ID TB, and also you've got live video as well, but I guess the shop window bit is your grit. So when people go to look at your account, so when you talk to me about your top nine posts,

:: 12:26

I want you to think about yourself as somebody who's coming to visit your account for the first time. And they're just looking at the top nine posts. So the ones that show at the top, not, not the top performing ones, you know what I mean, Danny, First of all, I have to just say, I have not got a pretty grid as well,

:: 12:42

laid out. And I know that and I decided that my initial attention was going to be on changing my content. So that's, what's starting to happen on my account. So it looks a little messy and I can put my whole, my hand up to that. So my branding is very, very clear in its color scheme. So it's black, white,

:: 12:59

and quite a bit of red that pops through. I'm generally consistent in the fonts that we use. We use one called railway and then a kind of signature one called Montana. So in terms of the fonts and that kind of thing, there is a consistency there. I have been doing more reels than anything else that may mean because I very quickly get a lot of views on those,

:: 13:20

which is nice. It's nice to feel that you're when you put content out there is getting a reaction back. But what I've been playing around with is whether those reels have a front cover on my grid or not. So at the moment those nine we've got the very first, most recent one that's been released is one that my team will have put together with it,

:: 13:40

which is actually an audiogram video. That's on the grid. We're actually changing how we promote the podcast at the moment, but that's a very kind of, this is the content we've put out this week, which we then tend to just put straight up onto stories and tag in various people from there. The next one along is a front cover for a real check.

:: 14:00

Your podcast is safe. There was something, something quite drastic going on with apple podcasts at the moment. And I wanted as many podcasts to access that information as possible. And I thought the best way to do that is to create a real. And I knew because I was coming on with Janet today that I probably should have some branding on it rather than just my face.

:: 14:18

And then the one next to it again is a real, but it's just me, just me speak as she's not a real, it's a N I G T V video. That's my top row. My second row. I've got a quote using a template that we created a few months ago. It's my own quote. And that's in black with white text.

:: 14:36

And then the one next to it again is my own quote template, but it's white with black text and a hint of red. And then the others are rails that I've done about podcasting. Okay. So first thing is that how I often put it is that your top nine on your Instagram. So there's top nine posts in your grid. The first things people see they're like a magazine your business.

:: 14:59

So people will stop by, they might see one post or maybe somebody will say, oh, they'll look at Anna's account and they'll stop and look at these nine. And based on what they see there, they'll make a decision about whether they want to subscribe to your magazine. Basically, it's like, do I want more of this? Do I want more of this content in my feed?

:: 15:19

So based on what you can see there, I think about your ideal client. We'll talk more about them in just a second. And visual consistency is important. It doesn't mean it has to be pretty at all, but it does need to be consistent. So if you were stopping by for the first time, how likely do you think you would be at the moment to subscribe to this magazine?

:: 15:38

Yeah, I wouldn't, I completely that's completely own up to the fact that this isn't how I want it to be, but no, it's there there's no consistency. And interestingly enough, a couple of years ago before we were really focusing on podcasting in the business, I did try and attempt for a while to stick to a very particular grid format. And I found it,

:: 15:59

I found it really challenging to do that. I found it quite restrictive, which is one of the things I hate. We come to today. Let's talk about your ideal client or customer. Let's talk about what do you want your Instagram account to do for you? So as a result of people stopping by, I'm assuming, yes, you want to go to all sites,

:: 16:18

but you want people to buy something from you. So what is it you want people to do? What action do you want people to take as a result of engaging with your account? Now, this is an interesting point actually, because the business is really changing at the moment and I storage likely we will leave it leading people to my membership, which is a low cost DIY training,

:: 16:39

but it is a membership. So an ideal client, there would be someone probably in the first couple of years of business. Now we have products and services that are much more high level and really kind of high-end entrepreneurs. People who are already or very close to six figures, probably tipping over into seven figures. So there's been that shift and that's one of the reasons why we're keen to really address the Instagram.

:: 17:05

So I guess there's two things that I want to be doing with it. One is positioned myself as a kind of go-to place to talk about podcasting, but very often the ideal client, they don't necessarily know yet that a podcast is the answer to some of their issues, but they are really engaged with motivational content and very much in that coach and motivational space.

:: 17:25

So that's who we're trying to capture the attention off. Okay. So when they first come across, yet, they may not even have a podcast. They know that they want to be more visible where they want to take their business to the next level. But the podcast is almost like the solution is, is that right? Yes. They wouldn't necessarily come to me because they think a definitely wants to podcast.

:: 17:48

They would probably me in other places because that's what they want. But on Instagram, my thinking was that we are say, for example, someone who's already got other platforms they've maybe got Instagram PSAs, they've maybe got Facebook sorted, they've got the late, you know, the, the funnel builds. That's the peer person that we now want to capture Ava here.

:: 18:10

So if we go back to this idea of the magazine, again, if you were actually to put together a print magazine for these people, like if Anna and April's had a magazine for these people, just imagine in your head, what would be on the front cover, imagine what the headlines were be, what would be the picture you would have on the front?

:: 18:28

You can come up with the headlines Immediately. There's a block for me saying, I I'm just not official. I couldn't do that. That's really interesting that that comes up. There's obviously a whole story around that, but it is something aspirational, I suppose. But once I say aspirational, so I guess from that no mad lifestyle. Okay. If it was a podcast,

:: 18:51

this might help you. If you don't see you're a visual person, if it was a podcast, if I said, go and make a podcast for these people, you probably already got it. What would be the titles of the episodes? Well, it would be about income, about profitability. It would be about visibility. So I guess that the titles are then about audience engagement in order to get the result,

:: 19:15

not necessarily about podcasting. So that's making me really aware actually that in terms of our Instagram strategy, because I wanted to, there are so many people in that space that, that my differentiator is that I know about podcasting. And I've got this kind of epic audio experience. But if that isn't the thing that entices people in, in the first place,

:: 19:37

then that's a barrier to entry. It sounds like what they're interested in is maybe moving from six to seven figures or moving from five to six figures, or they're interested in, could be getting booked to speak instead of the mechanics of how to do a podcast, it might be more about, should I have a podcast? Do I need to podcast? What's better podcasts or YouTube.

:: 20:03

I still think it's good for you to have podcasts on there because obviously that's your thing, but it might be helpful just to think about this as, as, as a podcast. And if you had to do a little mini podcasts episodes, what are the questions that these ideal people ask you all the time when you're doing coaching or you're chatting to them?

:: 20:22

What, what do they say to you? How do I get more leads? How can I make sure I monetize that what's the best way to get further? How can I get on other people's podcasts? How does this fit with the rest of my business? That kind of thing. Yeah. So when it comes to your content, what I would like to see on your top nine,

:: 20:41

and it will take some thinking, is those questions, because when these people stop by at your, you want them to be like, whoa, like Anna's inside my hand. She knows everything I'm thinking because she's created a real on everything that I want to know. So that's what I want to say in your top nine. It's not about being, it doesn't have to be consistently pretty,

:: 21:04

even if it was your face, but with a clear label on every single one, a consistent label. But I just want to be like, you know, when you're in the days when we used to subscribe to magazines and we will be like, you'd be so excited when your health and fitness or your Magazine, Psychologists, That scene with the one.

:: 21:23

Yeah. So just think about that. And you look at the cover and you're like, I'm gonna save that for later. What we want you to create is like bingeable. And I think real is this totally right for you? I would, if I was you, I'd probably just do reels to be honest, or certainly try that as a strategy,

:: 21:40

obviously. You're great. You're a great communicator is a real strength. It's not a big thing for you to turn on your video and talk. You're not afraid of it, you know? So it seems like a really great way for you to create and lots of content very quickly. The thing about reels, cause they're Searchie seconds or less. Some people have got 60 as we're recording this.

:: 21:57

I haven't got it yet, but it's coming, but it's about taking those teeny tiny topics. And the great thing about that is you could take one podcast episode and you could break that down into 10 rails because it's taking that tiny, tiny thing usually. So should I start a podcast or how much does it cost to start a podcast? So podcasts or YouTube,

:: 22:17

you could just talk about those things for 30 seconds and you've got really good way of content. There is more to it in terms of creating, engaging reels. That's a whole, that's the next step really? But does that make sense in terms of your strategy? Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I've got a whole bank of maybe 30 or 40 potential rails to make.

:: 22:36

And I guess I came at this in the same way that I would, if I was well, we are, we're building the podcast agency website at the moment with a new blog. And so I'm always thinking, what, what are the questions? What are the titles? But I'd not been, I'd been thinking about how do I make sure that if they,

:: 22:54

for example, for search engine on the website, how do I make sure when someone puts in, how do I make money from my podcast, for example, or which is the best equipment to buy that I was hitting those. Whereas actually for my audience, the problems that they have are about how to incorporate it into their wider messaging said that it's not just the thing on the side that they do.

:: 23:15

Yeah. And I think we'll say there's three types of content that I recommend people create for Instagram. And the first one is educate. So that says how to ask, answering the questions. The second one is inspire. So I know whenever I talk about dealing with haters or trolls or getting used to the fact that not everybody will like you like dealing with criticism,

:: 23:37

staying motivated, even when you've had a knock back or a setback. I know there's certain topics that people will jump on money. So to do with when people don't want to pay you for your time or people want freebies, there's those topics. I think it really resonates with people. Can you say what those topics are? Yeah, for sure. In fact,

:: 23:54

again, we're building these out. My first book get visible is about the vulnerability of putting yourself out there and then the strategies to do it, but that it doesn't ever become super easy. There's always going to be that next block for you, that next hurdle. So I actually do have those. And if that's on the grid that I'm looking at now,

:: 24:12

a couple of the quotes from that, and then the posts that would go with them, we have started testing. So that could be your inspire. Then you've got entertain. So this, I think this could be a really good one. Yeah, Actually, Janet, I feel watching your Rios. If we watched them all feel locked down, I'm an actor.

:: 24:28

That's my background. And when, when Rio started coming out, I was like, I am not going to be one of the dancing women pointing to thing. I'm just not going to do that. And then bit by bit, I've got more confident on rails, more use to the system. And I know there's some stuff coming. I know I've got like bags of costumes upstairs and all sorts of things.

:: 24:46

Yeah. And it's about doing it your way. Like I made a real about the fact that I don't like it when people criticize women for pointing at words on wheels, because it might be the first time that that person's ever gotten video. They might be terrified. Maybe they just like it. And if they like it and it gets their message across great,

:: 25:04

we should support that. But equally I think entertainment can just be, you know, I, I call them like eye roll topics. You know, like when you is generally stuffing, you know, people asking you for freebies, I did one the other day about people sliding into your DMS and asking you to work for free. And then when you say,

:: 25:20

oh, well I've got this great course or this great program. They're like, oh, sorry, I'm too busy. I can't focus on that right now, but they're not too busy to take your free advice or I can't possibly invest in that. Will you give me all the answers for Yes, exactly. You know what the, I call them like the eye rolls or pecs.

:: 25:36

So you know what they are for your clients. Can you think of any off the top of your head that like Sure. It's the people who launch a podcast and say to me while I was waiting to see if it did any, if it went well before I told anyone to go and listen, that just always makes me laugh. How do you expect that you're going to get success?

:: 25:53

If nobody even knows it's there, it's just like tumbleweed. Would you like to grow your audience on social media? Hey, debits, you Janet murray.co.uk/audience to take my 62nd audience growth quiz. Find out the steps you need to take to build your online audience and your sales. You get a detailed report, but actionable tips tried and tested with hundreds of my clients from both products and service based businesses.

:: 26:20

So you can start creating super engaging content to attract your ideal clients today. Coming back to what you said before, this is why I was asking you about your personal Facebook profile. It's about connecting with people emotionally, and obviously you can do that in different ways. So every time we create content on any platform, but I think especially, I think people miss this on Instagram,

:: 26:48

because I think it's this platform, which is for pictures and photographs. But every time we post anything, we're looking to, to engage emotionally with people. So it may well be that we're giving them some great tips and advice, and they're just really happy and grateful and solved a problem for them. And they're really pleased about that, but it might be that we've just made them laugh.

:: 27:07

We've made them roll their eyes. And you know, you mentioned those two words, community and connection, which you get on your personal Facebook. That's all you're trying to do is you're trying to create content that makes people comfortable with you because they're like, oh yeah, I hate it when that happens. Or yes, that happens to me too. So you want to bring people closer to you,

:: 27:28

which you're doing really successfully on your Facebook page, but every time you post something and this happens to all of us, by the way, every time you just posted, Hey, listen to my latest podcast. They're just like, yeah, whatever. And they may well go off and, and listen to it, but they're not going to get into a conversation with you about it,

:: 27:44

if that makes sense. So what you're looking to do is to build a community, everything you put out should be about getting people to connect with you emotionally, in some way, I've got a post as we're talking now, which is quite controversial. And I'm saying that I wouldn't when social media managers say, oh, well, the reason that my Instagram account isn't very good is because I'm so busy working for my clients.

:: 28:06

And for me, I'm just like, that's rubbish. Like if you're, if you're a social media manager and you're selling those skills, your account should have engagement on it. Doesn't have to have a massive following, but it should have engagement because otherwise, how do I know you're any good at what you're doing? That's quite controversial. And I know that some people won't agree with me,

:: 28:25

but that's the same for your personal Facebook when he posts personal content that you put out it's about, it's not about deliberately putting a torch the things and, you know, creating things which are deliberately going to protect people. But where there is something that you feel strongly about is conversation. Like people are going to stop in the feed and they're going to want to engage with your content.

:: 28:46

Does that make sense? Yeah, for sure. I think one of the challenges down it is that, you know, over the years I have done a few trainings here, there, and everywhere. And some people would say, you know, go and pin other people's that's not quite the right term, but save their posts. And then, you know,

:: 29:03

you kind of put them back out there. And I guess some of that we've, we've tried and I'm not sure where the, where the line is, how much of it is owning my space, owning the podcast space. How much of it is that emotional connection, which I actually find very difficult when I'm talking about podcasting, because it's a dry topic.

:: 29:23

So I know it isn't, but to the outside world, it is right At this point, I should have said to Anna, that there is no such thing as a dry topic, only a dry approach for topic, which is absolutely true. You can make any topic engaging if you understand your audience and what they need to hear from you. But I feel Anna hasn't yet crossed why her audience isn't connecting with her Instagram content.

:: 29:47

And in my experience, until you understand why your content isn't landing with your audience, you can't create content that will. So I switched, tack and approach it from another angle. So you and I got on this call today, and I got very excited about telling you about my microphone. Most of the world, isn't going to be interested in that really geeky stuff.

:: 30:07

And a lot of my ideal clients wouldn't necessarily even have any knowledge of that stuff. Does that make sense? Yeah. And you're making a really good point here, a really important point. It is about your audience and not about you. It's about what they need to hear. So if they don't like hearing about podcast mix, of course, that's not going to land with them.

:: 30:27

So it's about your first job after this session should be to sit down and say, well, what do they want to hear about? You've got your three areas. You've got your educate, your, how to you've got your inspire and then you've got your entertain. And the thing is, if there was a magic wand that I could wave, that would just give you a list of ideas and I can tell you for sure that they would work.

:: 30:47

I'd be a very, very, which woman I'd be paying you. The average women As this is the courageous content podcast. I want to be as honest and transparent with you as I can. And while I always strive to be objective as a coach and manage it most of the time, there are times where my emotions get in the way earlier in our conversation.

:: 31:09

And I spoke about hiring people to help with Instagram who gave her the wrong advice. And I had this growing sense that I haven't yet managed to articulate exactly what it is that she needs to change. When I say, if I had all the answers and could tell her exactly what she needed to post, I'd be a rich woman. She says, if that was the case,

:: 31:28

she'd be paying me to be a rich woman. And I find myself wondering whether my advice feels less credible somehow because it's free. But instead of asking better questions to see if I can uncover what's really going on for Anna, I become a little defensive. And although I recover myself quickly, I feel annoyed with myself afterwards for letting my ego get in the way.

:: 31:51

But what I know works from doing it with myself and hundreds of guides is when you have that. So a aim, I just want to connect with my audience. I want to give them what they need. There's two types of needs. So one needs is an emotional need. So they might need you to reassure them that they're doing okay. And to keep going,

:: 32:13

they might need you to reassure them that it's okay to feel uncomfortable about being on camera or podcasting or whatever it is because everybody feels the same. They want you to feel like you, the other type of needs. Sometimes there's a more practical need for, I need to know how to do this. I want the roadmap. I want to know how this works.

:: 32:32

So if, if there was one thing you could take away from this, it's like any content you put out has to be meeting a need in your audience. So sometimes it's a practical need. So why do tutorials on how to do stuff on Instagram? Sometimes it's that emotional need. The emotional need can be the needs to have an argument about something,

:: 32:51

to debate about something, but it's always about meeting the emotional needs. And you agree that everyone sort of thinks it's about 50 pictures, but it really depends on your type of business. So if you're a photographer or your stylist, then the need that you might need to meet might just be beautiful pictures. Cause some people just like looking at beautiful pictures,

:: 33:13

but also if you're a stylist, it's not about you. But sometimes I don't buy things because I don't know what goes with what, or I don't know what suits me. So create some content that fulfills that practical need. So that's the key thing that is, it's a bit of an, it can be a bit of a mind blowing thing because the way I work with people is to say,

:: 33:34

let's forget about hashtags. And let's forget about pasting times. And let's forget about all this stuff. Let's just get back to the heart of what type of content gets shared. What kind of content goes by will. And let's get to the heart of it. It's about meeting people's needs. It's about either meeting a practical need, solving a problem, answering a question,

:: 33:53

or it's about an emotional need. It's made us laugh. It's you know, when we share things, if you think about what you share with your friends, it's often stuff that makes you laugh. Isn't it? It's things that maybe make you cry because you have the experience or things that, the word that I was wanting you to say earlier, actually it was relatable.

:: 34:10

So when we create content that people say, ah, yes, I've been there. Even if they haven't had the exact experience. So anytime I share anything about anyone sending me a nasty email or message, I always get people responding to that because I might have much bigger email list than a lot of the people who respond. But it doesn't matter whether you've got 50,000 or 50 people on your email list,

:: 34:34

it still hurts when someone says something horrible, isn't it? Yeah. So there is so much that I could talk to you about, about pay static. And there's so much I could talk to you about, about the different spaces and how you use them. But for me, the key thing is to take that step back and say, how do I meet my audiences?

:: 34:53

Practical needs loads of how to stuff. And then you've got the emotional needs. You've got your three pillars and you've got educate. You've got inspire. You've got entertain. If I was advising you, I'd say, go for it on rails. You know, you could just, just do rails, cause I'm sure you'd be able to print and really quickly and spontaneously as well.

:: 35:12

If you know what your outline is, you don't have to batch them all. You could just do them when they take it back, takes your fancy. But when, when you know your audience and you know what they want from you, it's really easy to create content spontaneously because you're excited about it because you're, you know, you want to help.

:: 35:28

So I love to spend more time. There's so much more we can talk about, but for you, what are the main takeaways and the action points. I mean, there are a few practical things I lacked, but what are the key takeaways? I think it's about do want to make sure we continue to position some of the podcasting practical stuff, the sort of facts about it,

:: 35:48

but going back to, well actually, how are people feeling before they decide to make this decision say quite common things that come up are about why I hate the sound of my own voice. That's quite a common one, or I don't have time for this. And actually instead of going, how to create podcast quickly, it's more about saying, for example,

:: 36:09

the top three ways to streamline your content. And obviously the podcast becomes central to that. So it's just, it's thinking a little bit more about what's going on for them. Whereas what I'd been recently coming at it with the rails, as in, how can I, what we're creating in terms of keywords for the website, how can I replicate that on the rails?

:: 36:30

And that's just needs tweaking. So it's the same content, but just with different titles perhaps. And I think in terms of tidying things up, actually this is maybe a question for you. So what I'm thinking is that if I had some regular covers that I use, that maybe I've got a kind of, I can build the grid to look more attractive just with the covers,

:: 36:50

what I've noticed when I've tested this. And I'd love your thoughts on it is that when I have a cover on a reel, it appears to me, I don't get as many views on the reel as when it's just me on the grid. Does that make sense? I think you always should put your reels in the grid anyway, because they will reach more people,

:: 37:09

but a cover. What will happen with a weird if somebody likes one of your rails. So I'm just looking through now, see, you've got some quite good titles here, the new way to make money from your podcast. That's what your people want to know about. They don't want to know about microphones. They want to know like, how do you make money from a podcast?

:: 37:25

Can you make for a podcast? How'd you get sponsor? I did a podcasting course a little while ago. And before we'd even got past the thinking of what your podcast was going to be about, people are asking, how do I get a sponsor? Like, hang on a minute, You're missing the point. You're missing the point, But she's frustrating for us.

:: 37:46

But actually if that's where people are at, that's the questions we should be answering. And then when we're working with them, they can say, well, hang on a minute. That's just so the new way to make money from your podcast, that's a better title I think. And what people would do is if they're like one reel, they'll go onto your reels tab and they'll look at them.

:: 38:05

So check your podcast is safe. That's an example of, so I wouldn't know, unless I heard about what was going on with apple, I wouldn't know what that was about. So it's about being really, really nation specific. And in those titles, I think where you're thinking you're getting less engagement. It's the topic that it gets always the content.

:: 38:27

And if people like one wheel that looks through and that's why it's really important to have really, I think you should have your face on it. So I liked the ones with your face are much better than the ones where it's just the black, the white circle, but you could have a, a consistent title. I think say five things to remember you mentioned earlier a good topic,

:: 38:47

how to get on other people's podcasts. So how to grow your audience as a podcast guest, that stuff. I actually, I actually, if you scroll down a bit, Janet, so there are a number of rails that did have coffers on that are, they've either got a gray background or a black background with a red circle and they didn't get as many views as the ones where it was just me and my face.

:: 39:09

Those ones that are about specific podcasting's. So how you get your podcasts found in Alexa has improved your Yeti, whereas the ones above or upper waters and how to make money from that one, didn't do so well. But I would say I don't particularly like those covers, I think your face, but with a consistent title. So you always have to talk in the same way and a bit bigger.

:: 39:31

So you can take a screenshot of yourself and have a template whereby you, or you can take a screenshot and your video, which is never great because you're generally, always gurning where was, are always With my eyes closed as well. Or you could always do it the same way every single time you talk to your designer, I'm sure they'll have some ideas.

:: 39:50

I think it is nice to be with your face at it. And just things like having a consistency to the background. So maybe a consistency in the colors that you wear, not wearing some color every time, but what you want is it to become familiar. So people are like, oh, it's Anna. So I like Hannah's video. So here's another one of Anna's videos.

:: 40:07

That's kind of what you want. But if people are getting different in a magazine, that's what I meant by the cover of a magazine. Yeah. It looks the same every time. Doesn't it. If it's a content is different, even if I blurred out psychology is on the top, you'd know the psychologist, wouldn't you? Because you recognize the colors,

:: 40:21

you'd recognize the style of photography. So that's what we mean by consistency. We don't mean it has to look all pretty and beautiful and pink candles on the bus. It's about me. It's about just being recognizable. So we know it's yours. If that makes sense. There's so much that I could share with you. And I think you could get this account going really quickly.

:: 40:41

But I think the first thing you need to do is take that step back and say, right, who am I audience? What are their needs? Number one, what are the practical needs? So what questions can I answer for them? Number two, what are their emotional needs? And you will have to experiment and you'll be trying topics. And you'd be like,

:: 40:57

oh, I thought this one's going to be brilliantly. Then you'll do one that takes two seconds. And you'd be like, wow, that one's done really well. But the only way to get better at content is to create content. And the thing about the other things about using the different spaces, stories is more about your everyday rough and ready behind the scenes.

:: 41:14

If I was you, I would just, and you haven't got much time. I would do rails and just do rails on the things that we've talked about using those three content pillars and you store these regularly as well. And I think you would see a bit difference. There's so much more I could say, but does that give you, it's probably a bit mind blowing because it's probably very different from the advice that you've had before,

:: 41:34

But you know, it's that thing of when I decide I'm going to do something and actually we've got, now we've got some new products and services out there. I know that I can focus on this and this is now my focus until I hit that 10 K and beyond. So it's been really useful to have that conversation about how can I tweak this or they own that podcast space,

:: 41:54

but that I make content even I'm excited about. I think Anna has the potential to create a really engaging Instagram account that will attract her ideal clients, but in order to do so, she will need to do more than just tweak her content, a word she uses a number of times in our conversation. What she actually needs to do is to completely overhaul her content strategy so she can start creating the content.

:: 42:17

Her ideal clients actually need. Anna is a fantastic communicator who should have no problem creating the kind of content her audience need. Once she understands exactly what that looks like. She says several times in our conversation that her block around Instagram is about not being a visual person, but I don't actually think that's the problem here. I think her biggest challenge may be in allowing herself to be a beginner on Instagram and accepting that just because she's amazing at creating content on some platforms that doesn't mean she would just know what to do on every platform afterwards.

:: 42:50

I felt it might've been helpful to share with an app, but I recently invested in working with a Tik TOK coach while I'm not a beginner content. I was a beginner on Tik TOK. So I took some coaching with somebody who knows the platform better than me. When you were a content marketing expert, it's not easy to sit and have your content ripped apart,

:: 43:08

but it's exactly what I needed. And I learned so much that I can share it with my clients. Being a beginner takes courage, especially when you're at the top of your game. Like Anna is I really hope Anna will have to courage to surrender and to take a step back and be a beginner on Instagram. Again, it's, that's exactly what I feel she needs to move forward.

:: 43:30

Thanks for listening to the courageous content podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review on apple podcast or share the episode on social media. That way more people can benefit from the free tips and strategies I share and be sure to tag me in when you do I'm at Jan Murray on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok.