In this conversation, Stephanie Hickox and Dan Trippie discuss the importance of Christian ethics, the challenges of parenting in today's culture, and the significance of goodness, truth, and beauty in shaping a believer's life. They explore how to engage with the world around us, the role of parents in guiding their children, and the necessity of understanding and participating in politics. Dan shares insights from his experiences in marriage and parenting, emphasizing the sacredness of family work and the need for Christians to present a compelling narrative of hope and redemption.

1. Christian ethics encourage believers to pursue goodness, truth, and beauty.
2. Navigating the tension between perfectionism and pessimism is crucial for Christians.
3. Goodness, truth, and beauty are foundational to understanding God's character.
4. Parents play a vital role in equipping the next generation to engage with culture.
5. Engaging in politics is essential for Christians to influence society positively.
6. Marriage is a sacred institution that reflects God's design and purpose.
7. The moral furniture of the universe provides a framework for understanding ethics.
8. Raising young men requires affirming their masculinity and guiding them in godly virtues.
9. Character formation in children is a continuous process that requires intentionality.
10. The gospel narrative offers hope and redemption in the face of suffering.

Find Daniel on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dan.trippie

Or Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dantrippie/

Learn more about the Center for Christian Thought and Ethics here: https://thinkchristian.com

Find our daily Bible podcast for moms here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dwelling-place-bible-plan-for-busy-moms/id1863449227

for the moms listening, thinking really are these sweeping

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up cheerios and cleaning highchair

straps and changing diapers?

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Is this really holy work that I'm doing?

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Dan: That, that may be the

most holy and significant work

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That we can do.

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Speaker: They're the

joyful agains our children.

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Shout on the swings, the exhausting

agains of cooking and laundry and

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the difficult agains of discipline.

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So much of what we do

as mothers is on repeat.

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So what if we woke up with clarity,

knowing which agains we were called to.

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And went to bed believing we are

faithful in what matters most.

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We believe God's word is

the key to untangle from the

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confusion and overwhelm we feel.

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Let's look up together to embrace a

motherhood full of freedom and joy.

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Welcome to part two of my conversation

with Daniel Trippy, the founder

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of the Center For Christian

Thought and Ethics, we discuss his

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latest book, compelling Ethics.

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If you're a mom, longing to think

biblically, but struggling with

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how to communicate it to the world

and to your kids, this is for you.

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In this interview, Dan even

took time to encourage moms.

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With the importance of what you do, this

episode is sure to remind you that what

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moms do every day truly matters to God.

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Stephanie: What are some things, even in

current events today, that you are looking

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and watching and thinking, man, if people

just had God's perspective on goodness,

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truth and beauty, we wouldn't be having

this debate here or this, crisis here.

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Dan: Yeah, I think we are at a real

inflection point where you have a

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lot of different things at play.

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One, we're seeing geopolitically,

the rise of empires.

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We've entered into kind of this, uh, new

era that's not new, but it's new to us

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so that's putting a lot of things that.

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In tension with each other.

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You have east, west,

tensions that are happening.

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So I see that our political polarization,

this is really traumatic for us because

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we as a nation are going to have

to respond to some of these things.

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We need to respond to

some of these things.

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And yet, I don't know, I'm concerned

that we don't have the shared values

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as a nation anymore to respond to the,

the changing geopolitical landscape.

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So I think that's something

that I'm really concerned about.

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I think we also have, , tension point

where we can't dialogue anymore.

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So you have, on one side, you have

issues that are about the common good

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general welfare versus individualism.

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So you're watching this in, different

states, different areas where, you have,

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in the name of general welfare, the

denigration of individuals, and you also

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have in the elevation of individuals, so

that, that's a, a real concern that I see.

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If there's one issue, I'm really,

um, I got my finger on that.

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As young young men in their twenties

are finding, a reaction to, uh, how they

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have received and been portrayed and some

of the things that they, they have been

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almost in some ways a forgotten group.

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And they are looking

for purpose and meaning.

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Many are moving to the church, which

I'm so grateful for, but many are

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moving into other things to fill that

void, and that's very concerning to me.

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Stephanie: I have three sons and

they're, 14, 13, and 11 right now.

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You have raised twin sons.

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How would you be purposeful as a

parent in helping them embrace their

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design and their role and culture?

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Yeah, for young men especially.

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Dan: Yeah, I think I want to help young

men to, embrace their masculinity, to

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embrace that in a godly way, right?

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We do have to recognize, okay,

what are stereotypes but what does

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it mean to be aim, a godly man?

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What does it mean to have a vision for

family and purpose, to be a community

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member, a husband, a father, a provider,

all of those things, because young men

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in our country are really feeling like

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they have been demonized, and

they're the one group that doesn't

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feel like they have a voice.

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So they're looking for places where their

voice is heard, and you're seeing that

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online helping them en engage in God's

mission gives our purpose, an affirmation

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of how he's created us and our identity.

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So raising young boys, both

of my boys are very different.

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We tried to spend a lot of time,

together in nature, a lot of time

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fishing, a lot of time talking, and I

would say, cultivate a conversational

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community where nothing is off limits.

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I, again, these, one of the things

I was open with, I raised them.

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Before iPhones and social media were

really, you know, they were just

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coming on the scene, but it being

open and honest about the scourge of

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pornography, the scourge of online

community, those things, I think we

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have to speak to them openly about that.

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Stephanie: If you had to give,

and, you can go on as long as you'd

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like, but what would be a concise

way to define biblical manhood?

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I'm sure with twins, they

very different personalities.

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My three boys are very different.

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What are the common traits

that, in general, God has

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intended for men to embrace?

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Dan: Yeah, well, I think we look

at Christ, we look at Jesus, right?

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Strong constitution, he is, determined

vision to do his father's will.

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So we want to have our, our boys

have a strong constitution determined

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to do the will of God, to embrace

truth, to embrace meekness, right?

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Meekness not being weakness, meekness

being, power under control, right?

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I think there are virtues, I

think teaching our young men, uh,

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biblical, the biblical virtues.

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But I also say maybe that

the virtues of courage.

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The virtues of justice, right?

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The courage, teaching them

what these things are and then

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affirming them as they do them.

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So I think we have to

create a real vision.

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Like, oh, I caught you.

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Like I saw you with your sister.

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That was a patient act.

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Good job.

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That was, we have to name it

for them at, at an early age.

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And then I think as they get into

their teen years, we're affirming,

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we'll give them a little rope, not

too much, but we give them a little

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bit and then we, reel it back.

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So again, I think Christ is the example

that we wanna show our young men.

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Stephanie: Yes, absolutely.

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I think of kind of this idea of

raising a David in a raise your

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Hand world, , and yet , I want my

boys to be a strong force for truth.

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But kind and gracious, but sometimes, yes.

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How do you channel that and make

sure that the character comes first?

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Sometimes I feel like we, yeah, we

have control of that decisiveness

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or of the strength, but making sure

that, character leads and it's just

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an interesting process, I think.

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Especially as they're getting older.

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At some point I want them to be able

to lead a family, and how do I start to

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loosen those reigns and give them a little

bit more freedom in our home, but checking

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in, is your character ready for this?

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It's an interesting process.

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Dan: it is.

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And it's imperfect.

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So we give ourselves like, we recognize

the grace that's been given to us.

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We need to , parent with grace.

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I, I really think one virtue

that we need to really help our

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young men with is self-control.

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Right now, right?

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The world has got so many things

offering it and everything's at a

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click of a button and everything

that's accessible, is not necessary.

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And obviously everything

that's accessible is not good.

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So I think really cultivating in our, in

our young men a vision for self-control.

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But a vision and a purpose

of something bigger in life.

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And, uh, I think this is why Charlie Kirk,

found so much resonance on college campus.

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He was just confronting the nihilism

of the culture and saying, no,

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there's a bigger purpose for us.

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And if we don't give that as, as

Christians and in the church, there are

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counterfeits out there that are really

looking to give that to our young men.

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Stephanie: Yes, agreed.

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Sure.

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One of my boys came to me recently and

we're very careful with what, you know,

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we give them access to and everything.

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But he said, you know what?

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I don't think that I'm

ready for this privilege.

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I thought I could, I thought that I could

control myself, and I don't think I can.

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So I'd like you to take it away from me.

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Dan: Wow.

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Stephanie: And on the one hand

you're like I wish you did have the

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self-control to handle it, but I am

so proud of you for that humility.

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And there'll probably be a time

that will come soon where he

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thinks that he is ready for it.

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And I'm gonna remember that moment.

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But I, I was so proud, like, thank you

for that humility, for recognizing it

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even, and I try to lead in humility too,

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those boundaries are hard for

me to manage and the constant

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inundation of communication.

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But it's an interesting

process to parent, for sure.

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Dan: Yeah I pray for you.

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I snuck right

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The bar before all of this was unleashed.

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My kids did not have technology till

they got into college, so a lot of their

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character formation was and even then it

was still, there were struggles for sure.

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But parenting today is it, man,

it's an active 24 hour day pray,

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Stephanie: Even going back to the

garden, and I realize Adam and Eve

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were made with maturity and as adults,

but I think sometimes with parenting,

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I do want to set my children up for

success, but the Lord still allowed

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the tree of the knowledge of good and

evil to be accessible to Adam and Eve.

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And as parents, we have to be careful

to not shelter them from everything,

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especially as they get older that

there is that opportunity to choose

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what's good , but obviously I think

that there's such wisdom in, in what's

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available but just realizing that my

job isn't to just control all of the

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situations, but to guide that they

would want to choose wisely at times.

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Dan: Yeah.

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And, you know, home of Grace, again,

the good beauty and truth when

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this becomes the foundational, our

home just doesn't talk about it.

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It be, it embodies that even.

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And there may be some

listen who have prodigals.

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I have some experience in this.

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That's a really difficult

lonely place as a parent.

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What did I do wrong

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And.

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I think one of the most compelling

things when your home has good beauty

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and truth embodied in it, even when you

have a prodigal, deep down they know I,

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I can go home and it was better when I'm

eating lop, when I'm eating the pods,

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I know it's better in my father's home.

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So, uh, praise God.

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We, we had a season of that and

it was the beauty and goodness

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of the home that drew them back.

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They're gonna make mistakes.

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It's really hard.

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It's really painful.

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And yet God is sovereign over

that and he loves our kids

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infinitely more than, than we do.

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Stephanie: Thank you for sharing

that personal experience.

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It reminds me that when I was,

just looking into your book a

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little bit, I saw that you and

your wife wrote a book on marriage,

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Dan: We did.

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Stephanie: I would love to have

both of you back to talk about that,

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but from just reading the summary,

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it seems that perhaps you have experience

with it not always being beautiful,

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true, and good in your marriage.

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And so how would you just talk to

us a little bit maybe about your

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experience in marriage and what the

Lord has taught you through that?

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Dan: Yeah.

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So, we celebrated 31 years, uh, last week.

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Uh, the, I was not a follower of Christ

in the first two years of our marriage,

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so I did everything that a young

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And I, um, did everything to sabotage

and to shipwreck, a marriage.

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But by the grace of God.

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My mom would take me to a church.

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I would go.

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My father didn't go at the time, he

was not a believer, but I knew that

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there was something there that was

compelling to me, drawing to me.

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So in the moment of crisis, when I was

about ready to lose my marriage quite

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frankly, I said, Jesus, if you are who

you say you are, would you save me?

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And I went all in with Christ.

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I was 25 years old at the time,

and, my wife was not yet a believer

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as well, so it was a little bit of

time for her to see, wait, you're

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living differently and I like it.

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You're engaging with me differently.

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And I like it.

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And slowly the Lord, used her like

her journey to come unto Christ.

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So yeah, we know what it's

like to live as unbelievers.

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Know what it's like to live in,

in lies and ugliness, and chaos.

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And what draws me back is God's

design, works because it's true.

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Stephanie: Mm-hmm.

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Dan: And I think that's where

Christians, as we engage with our

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neighbors, that we actually have , we

have the high ground on this.

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You can look at us, people can

look and say, well, it's weird.

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I don't get it.

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But when you see a family walking

with Jesus and the joy and the

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love and there's a jealousy for the

unbeliever to go I do want that.

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And I think that's why you

see so much anger too, right?

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Is because you have something I

want, but I don't know how to get it.

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Stephanie: Right.

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Dan: So, Yeah, we'd love

to talk about marriage.

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We wrote that book nearly 15 years ago,

uh, now, so probably needs we've got a

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little bit more maturity since then, but

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Stephanie: I would love that

because I think that's so

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often what the world will say.

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Right.

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Well.

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Actually, you're not doing it that well.

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Or we see the divorce rates, but the

more that we can learn what God's design

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really is for marriage, because I think

that there's a lot of deception even

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in the church, about what a biblical,

godly marriage looks like and, and how we

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embrace Christ and follow him, in that.

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So I would love to talk more about that.

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I'm also reminded, when we were at

the conference, you had shared a story

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about there were some film executives

that brought you in part of a focus

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group, I believe, to say, Hey, what

do you think of this new film idea?

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And it was about friendship.

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And you said, can I tell you about

a different friendship , because

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they had never really heard the

gospel explained in this way.

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So for those maybe that are listening

or for those that would like a fresh

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take on the gospel, would you share.

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That example that you shared with

them about what the gospel is?

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Dan: Yeah.

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The storyline was along the lines

of friends and, and one of the

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friends had, died in a tragedy.

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And the, the storyline, the story

arc was about how the two remaining

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friends dealt with loss and how they

made meaning out of the friendship.

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And they asked me, what do you,

what do you think of that story?

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And I'm like, well, it's not very, it's

kind of like, I've seen this before.

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It's not very creative.

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It's not very good.

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I said, but what about this?

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What if the story was about.

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Hope.

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What if the story was about Reunion?

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What if the story was about

recognizing the full extent of

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loss, lament, sorrow, pain, but yet

with hope at the end of a reunion?

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And they were like, really tell more.

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I said, well, that's

a Christian narrative.

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That's what our story is.

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Our story doesn't flatten or try to ignore

the real pain and the real sorrow and the

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suffering and the tragedy of this world.

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We are the only ones, I believe,

Christians, who can embrace it

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fully because we have the hope to

know that it's, it's not forever

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going to be this way, right?

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We have the promise of Christ who fully

took on suffering, sorrow, lament,

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Buried, and yet three

days later, rose again.

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To bring renewal, bring us into,

to him, to join us in him in union.

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And we have a, a grand reunion waiting

one day, , when we are rejoined with

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Christ and all those who die in him.

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And, uh, the woman was

like, well, wait a minute.

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Are you saying that pain and suffering?

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I actually said Christ took on our pain

and our suffering to fully embrace it.

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She's like, what I thought it

meant pain and suffering is

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that God's getting even with us.

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God's mad at us and he's getting even.

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I said, our God, fully embraced

it, took it into himself.

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He knew, who knew no sin became sin, that

we might be the righteousness of God.

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He took it upon himself so that

we could forever live in unity

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with him and with one another.

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And she said, wow, I just

never heard that story.

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I, well, that's the gospel story.

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Stephanie: Mm-hmm.

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Dan: So it just shows us like, while

there are people who are antagonistic

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to the Christian faith, many of them

are antagonistic to the Christian faith.

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'cause they don't know it,

they don't know its story.

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We've moved into, I would, I

don't use the, I post-Christian,

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but maybe re Pagan is a nation.

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Stephanie: Sure.

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Yes.

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I really, I so appreciate your perspective

and how beautifully you explain things.

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Because you have that gift, our

podcast is called Again and wanting

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moms to know that what they do

every day really matters to God.

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And in your work chapter, you talk

about our calling and you included

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a Martin Luther quote that, that he

argued that it's a false dichotomy

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between the sacred and the secular.

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And that really everything that we

do onto the Lord can be holy work.

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So would you talk a little bit

about that for the moms listening,

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thinking really are these sweeping

up cheerios and cleaning highchair

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straps and changing diapers?

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Is this really holy work that I'm doing?

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Dan: That, that may be the

most holy and significant work

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That we can, we can do.

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I mean, I think part of our, our

modern struggle is we, have not a

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great definition of work, right?

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So we have the things that we do in

our career that we're compensated for,

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and then we have the work that we're

called to do and the most most holy

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and significant work, called to do

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, is to do the work unto the Lord

and I think there is no more

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sacred work than family work, our

marriages and our children, right?

322

That's the, the first calling

of work procreation, right?

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We're commanded, normatively

speaking, understand that, maybe

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some are here struggling with

fertility issues and, and such.

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But , the nurturing of family,

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The nurturing of children, is the

very first work that was given to us.

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So it is very sacred and important.

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And I think, I actually think we, uh,

there was a whole movement, right,

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that tried to, devalue work at home,

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For equality to go, we're

gonna work in the marketplace.

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Uh, that was actually an undermining

and a devaluing of the more sacred work.

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So done unto Christ.

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Everything that we do, like

I'm in that age where you start

334

to think about, retirement.

335

But for me,, I'm going to work because

when do I ever stop serving the Lord?

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When should I ever stop

serving my neighbor?

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I, there's no end on that.

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There can be a time when compensation

doesn't have to come from my labor,

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but that doesn't mean my labor ends.

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Stephanie: Sure.

341

Absolutely.

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Thank you for that encouragement.

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What about for people listening

that are thinking, all right.

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Daniel, you do think differently.

345

I know that's even your your website.

346

Right?

347

Think Christian.

348

So if people are thinking,

you think differently.

349

I've been in the church a long time, but

I just don't always see these examples of

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truth and beauty and goodness around me.

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What resources do you have

for individuals for the church

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that are wanting to learn more?

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Dan: Sure.

354

Yeah.

355

So, uh, some of the things that we do

is that our organization, the Center

356

for Christian Thought and Ethics, uh,

what we'll do is one day thought Labs.

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So what we'll do is we'll come in

and we'll help, uh, take the morning

358

and talk about this idea of moral

realism, the foundation of where do

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these moral foundations come from?

360

How do we contrast that

with the world around us?

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And then what we do is

we give some frameworks.

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And then what we'll do is, uh, depending

on the context, we're in the church

363

culture, and we'll give a survey and

ask the people what are the issues

364

that are most pressing for you that

you just don't know how to talk about

365

or you're confused to think about?

366

And then we workshop them

together in the afternoon.

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So we'll take the moral foundation, the

framework, then we'll workshop them.

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So that's something that we do.

369

That's getting more and more traction.

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Uh, we also do coaching with pastors,

pastors and staff, because a lot of times.

371

These, complex moral issues.

372

The pastor is the first line.

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He's the first one to hear about them.

374

And with technology and culture moving

so fast, many times, the pastor doesn't

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have time to study research things.

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Even policies that are getting

pushed through state legislatures.

377

So we will do that and then help coach

a pastor on how to talk about it in a

378

way that builds receptivity with people.

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Uh, still holding the convictions, but

gives a theological explanation for

380

why we hold the beliefs that we hold,

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Stephanie: That's phenomenal because

it, it does seem like there are

382

these extremes where we're not gonna

talk about it because we don't wanna

383

offend anyone, or we are just gonna

bring the hard truth from the pulpit.

384

And if people are

offended, they're offended.

385

I think it's fascinating to me, it

seems like we need to not wait for the

386

crisis moments, the news, the headlines

to address certain things that a pastor

387

in giving a biblical worldview would

be addressing these things regularly

388

with the congregation so that when

the headlines come, we already have a

389

strong foundation in our congregation

of exactly how we think about that.

390

And it seems like.

391

There are a few churches that,

that know how to embrace that.

392

Dan: Yeah it's hard.

393

A pastor has a really hard job.

394

Again, studying for sermons,

being a cultural missionary,

395

caring for people, all of it.

396

I'm really empathetic in that.

397

So we wanna come in and support and go,

well, let us help you so we can do some of

398

that research for you and help you to, I

just had yesterday a, a pastor reach out

399

and say, Hey, do you have a one page, a

one pager on this particular issue that

400

I'll be meeting with a young couple on?

401

I'm like, sure, here's a one

pager with the bullet points.

402

Now here's the rest of the

research if you want it.

403

But here's just like, we look at ourselves

at the center for Christian thought.

404

We're like the recon Marines.

405

We get out ahead of the issue,

survey it before the Army comes in.

406

So we kind of get out

there, here's the issues.

407

You need to think about

this, think about that.

408

Here's how to talk about it and prepare

your people so when it shows up, your

409

people already know how to think about it.

410

Stephanie: That's fantastic.

411

I would love to talk to

my pastor about this.

412

I think it's phenomenal that you offer

it, and I'm looking at some of the

413

topics that you can emphasize here.

414

And I know I didn't plan to go

this direction, but I think even

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in parenting, I would love for you

to talk to the AI and how are you

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guiding believers to handle this.

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Dan: yeah.

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First, what we're, we're dealing

on, Christian anthropology.

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So what does it mean to be a human?

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We have to come back to that.

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And then what we're we're guiding

believers on is, okay, it's not

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going anywhere, so we're gonna

have to learn to work with it,

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but what, where is it permissible?

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What are the dangers?

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How are we, how are we using it?

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How are we disclosing when we use it?

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All of those things, we're.

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We're looking at, and then again,

as we, uh, as we really think about,

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like, are you just an awareness?

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People are using it, but I'm not

sure they're aware of the bias.

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I'm not sure they're aware of how it's

being trained or even in the fact that

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when you're using it, you're training

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Stephanie: Yes.

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Mm-hmm.

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Dan: um, we're working with pastors,

working with churches to start

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to consider this, uh, what You've

gotta have a vision for it and you

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have to have boundaries for it.

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And you have to talk about,

you have to talk about it.

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And even again, when I come back to the

geopolitical things, right, even how is

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AI and, the algorithms affecting some

of the cultural chaos that we have?

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Stephanie: Absolutely right.

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If you only see perspectives that

solidify your, your thinking, I,

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it's, I just think it's so dangerous.

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I'm surprised that there aren't more

people being more outspoken about

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it, because I do think, wow, this

culture war it's just becoming a

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very difficult battle , if we're only

seeing our perspective all the time.

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Dan: Yeah,, one of the other works shops

that we do is we do some work in dialogue.

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how do you engage with people

and you have, we have to engage

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with people we disagree with.

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Even now within the church.

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I did a, a, a training on Saturday

and I was talking more about engaging

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my neighbor and one of the young men

in the congregation said, my neighbor

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right now is in the pews with me.

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We disagree and we don't talk anymore,

so we're watching this fracture.

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Even within the church community

now, how can we be a community that

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confesses our sins one to another as

James tells us too, if we can't even

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talk about our, policy disagreements.

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So we we're giving some, some tools and

some skills on how to, to engage that.

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Stephanie: Sure.

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is there anything else that

was on your heart to share,

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particularly as you think about moms

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Dan: yeah , I have the highest

respect and regard and I'm, I, again,

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I'm watching my daughter-in-law,

raise our granddaughter and just.

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Back in baby mode again, just a

new appreciation, for the hard

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work that young parents have.

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Not everybody doesn't have this luxury,

but, uh, part of how the Lord is

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structured our work is that we try to

be accessible to our kids If you have

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grandparents, and I'm learning like,

what does it mean to be a grandparent?

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How do we do that?

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We have to.

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So, I don't know.

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I just wanna encourage young moms,

your work is the most important

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work and should be elevated

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Stephanie: Thank you so much.

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And thank you for your time.

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Thank you for how you encouraged

us today, but also just how you're

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equipping the church to thank Christian.

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And I know that you have a website

that would be helpful as well.

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And I really encourage listeners to

talk to your pastors about bringing

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some of these trainings in that

would equip your congregation, equip

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your pastor to engage with culture.

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And because we just, we do

want to present the goodness

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of the Lord to those around us.

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We'll be praying for your work.

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Dan: Thank you.

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Blessings to you.

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Okay.

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During this Lent season, are you

looking for a way to see Christ in

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all of scripture in the Dwelling Place

podcast for moms, we do just that.

490

After Jesus rose from the dead, he walked

with his disciples through scripture

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showing that it pointed to him We are

delighting and looking at the word

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of God and seeing how true that is.

493

I like the dwelling place in the

show notes so you can prepare

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your heart for Easter, perhaps in

a way you've never done before.