This podcast episode examines the often-overlooked winter diesel challenges, with a focus on power loss, soot accumulation, and issues related to the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF). Our discussion features an insightful interview with Jessica from Power Service, who explains the unique challenges winter conditions pose for diesel engines. We explore how the formulation of winter diesel differs significantly from its summer counterpart, leading to performance issues RV owners should be aware of. Additionally, we provide practical maintenance tips, emphasizing the importance of regular preventive measures to mitigate potential problems. This episode is essential for anyone reliant on diesel engines, as it equips listeners with the knowledge necessary for optimal performance during the winter months. The discussion addresses the often-overlooked intricacies of winter diesel performance. A focal point of the discussion is the 'hidden winter diesel problem,' which encompasses not merely the well-known issue of gelling but also the nuanced complications of power loss, soot accumulation, and difficulties related to Diesel Particulate Filters (DPF).

In an enlightening interview with Jessica from Power Service, listeners are introduced to critical differences in diesel fuel characteristics between winter and summer. These differences, primarily due to the refining processes adapted to seasonal temperatures, can exacerbate existing engine issues if not properly managed. The dialogue encourages RV owners and diesel engine operators to remain vigilant, particularly highlighting early indicators of injector and emission system struggles that may arise as winter progresses. These symptoms, including substantial drops in fuel economy and increased frequency of 'regens', are vital warning signs that require immediate attention to ensure optimal engine performance during the harsher months. Resources Mentioned in this Episode:

Power Service Diesel Injector Cleaner

Contact Us - Call, Text, Video, Email Our Online Resources:

The Smart Rver YouTube Channel - Check Out Our No-Nonsense YouTube Videos

Sunpro Mfg - RV Sunshade, Windshield Covers & Slide Out Awning Fabrics

Hot Boat Ropes - Marine Cordage- Anchor Lines, Dock Lines, Tow Lines, etc.

Top Rated Podcast - The Smart RVer Podcast Website

In staying on the road today, we're going to be talking about the hidden winter diesel problem, power loss, soot buildup and DPF issues. And this is going to be an interview with Power Service.

And then in the quick tips, when was the last time you checked your spare tire and not just the air pressure? And then an RV envy. I'm going to caution you when you're making online out of industry purchases. So this is Eric Stark.

Welcome to the Smart rver podcast. If you'd rather be camping than sitting in a repair shoe shop, you're in the right place.

Every episode, I'll walk you through practical DIY maintenance and repairs that keep you on the road. Today is episode 195. So let's dig right into this. Now, just as a reminder, I want to ask you to subscribe to our channel.

You can go to any podcast channel you like, whether it's itunes, Spotify, we're on them all and subscribe and also share it with your friends if you really find value in the podcast. So let's just jump right into it. Let's just get into staying on the road. So we have this interview. It's the hidden Winter Diesel problem.

So it's going to talk about power loss, soot and DPF issues. And so this interview is with Power Service.

And this might sound familiar because we had an interview about six episodes ago, but this one is all winter related and that's when sometimes diesel problems sneak up on you. So let's check it out. My guest today is Jessica from Power Service. And you've probably seen their diesel products on the shelves in stores.

But today we're going to focus on winter performance and their injector and DPF flush.

Now, by the way, this might sound familiar because just recently we did an interview with Garth back in November, episode 190, and we covered the injector flush and DPF flush, but in a different way. That was more summertime, not the winter. Harsh winter months. That's what we're going to talk about today. So, Jessica, welcome to the show.

And can you kind of give us a little history of your, of your experience with Power Service and where you've been?

Absolutely. So my name is Jessica. I'm the Director of Technical services at Power Service, or in fewer words, most everybody calls me the chemist.

So I came to Power Service right after college and I've been here almost 12 years. So I've, I've been here, I've learned a lot and happy to be here and hope to be here. For many more years.

Very good. The chemist sounds like something out of a murder mystery. So we're going to keep this very campground friendly today.

So if we drift and get too technical, I'll pull it right back so we can keep it in plain English. So we're just going to go through. We got basically six segments. We're going to walk through this and keep it in an order.

That'll help so you understand exactly where we're going with this. So the first is segment one is the real winter problem. It's not just gelling.

So the question I have for you, Jessica, Most drivers think winter diesel problems are all about gelling. Why is that only part of the problem?

Gelling is definitely, you know, the biggest problem. You know, if you're going to have a problem with fuel in the winter, jelling is the one that comes to mind first.

Their fuel in winter is not the exact same as fuel in summer. So diesel fuel is refined differently based on the climate and, you know, the region that it's being refined in.

And so the way that the refineries do that is they kind of change the cut point of the fuel and it makes it have a little bit less energy density. And so you get less fuel economy just with the fuel itself. Like you're going to get less fuel economy anyways when you add in winter issues.

If you had any problems ahead of time with that, this winter fuel is just going to exacerbate any of those issues that you might have been having already that you haven't quite noticed yet.

Okay, so that's kind of interesting that they haven't noticed yet.

Is that something that maybe at the beginner winter, the truck or the engine would run fine, and the farther they get into winter, the worse the problems would get?

Yeah, absolutely. So anything, you know, like fuel economy, you know, might start, you know, drifting a little bit more than expected.

If you were already starting to see a fuel economy drift because of injector deposits or, you know, excessive regions, all of that's just going to get worse in winter because that winter fuel is already less energy dense and already can cause issues on its own. And then that cold weather just makes that even worse.

That's interesting because farther you get into it, the worse it gets. And then by then, winter might be over. Right. If you finally snap out and catch it. Okay, so that's cool.

So it's a good thing to know and actually put on your schedule to deal with it before winter. Probably we're going to get into that in a little bit. RVers are going to notice certain things. You know, it's going to be symptom related.

So what early signs and should RVers look for that tell them the injectors or emission systems might be struggling, especially in this winter time?

Yeah, so before you're going to get any like, you know, codes or anything that are saying that you're getting any misfires or anything like that, you will definitely notice, you know, a decrease in fuel economy and it'll be pretty drastic. And then you'll notice excessive regions when it comes to the emission systems.

You might notice your def consumption, you know, just drastically goes up. You're having to refill that tank more and more. The worst case would be, you know, injectors misfiring and injectors getting clogged.

Or you could get that, you know, dreaded code of, you know, you have a hundred miles until you have to be at the dealer before you're, you know, start the dpf.

Okay, so there's definitely some signs. Now these signs are the symptoms. Are they always going to be there like earlier on or do they kind of gradually, one after another start happening?

So usually it's going to be pretty gradual. Reduced fuel economy is probably what most people track the most.

So they'll see that, you know, just kind of gradually start to get worse and worse and worse. And then if you do track def usage, that one's probably going to be the next one that you notice.

Some vehicles will tell you when it's in regen and some won't. It just kind of depends on what, you know, model you have. If you get that little light that pops up on the dash, if it's regenning or not.

But it's usually they all happen pretty gradually if it's, you know, related to injectors and fuel issues.

Okay, very good. So would there be any extra smoke or any smell that would indicate this as well?

Sometimes you can like you notice it smells a little bit differently while it's regening, but you don't, you're not always back there to notice that, you know, when the regen is happening because it doesn't typically happen while you're stopped. So it's there but you don't usually notice it.

Okay, so the fuel economy is probably going to be the most obvious thing. All right, very good. Do you have an example of this happening?

Any real life stories that you've talked to customers, your customers where they've experienced this and found the solution through you guys?

Yeah, so we've definitely had, you know, not necessarily winter related, but we have had. Just because we haven't, you know, had the product out for a whole winter yet. But we've had lots of testimonials.

While people will have, you know, the, the light pops up that they have a hundred miles until, you know, they need to go to the dealer before they get a no start because their emission system is not function. And I add a bottle of the diesel injector and DPF flush and then it completely goes away and I never see it again.

Okay, very good. So simple solution, right? Absolutely, Very simple. It's just a matter of doing it. So it takes that, you know, getting it on your schedule.

Maintenance program, this is what I got to do. And having it around, I know myself, I don't have a, I have a tractor with a diesel engine, but all my other vehicles are gas engines.

And I pretty good about putting in a flush for the injectors, the fuel injectors. So I just buy a bunch of it and have it at home and then it just becomes easier to do. I don't forget it as often as there in front of me.

That's probably the same thing with doing this. Having the product at home, ready to use it or in the vehicle, whichever.

Okay, so now we're going to get into some of the more little, I guess, refinements of this and we're going to talk about this in plain English so everybody understands it and there's no questions about it. Why does cold weather tend to reveal injector problems that might not be obvious in the warmer months?

You know, cold weather is just really difficult on diesel engines in general. You know, it's just they have to work a little bit harder. It's harder for them to start.

But it really all has to do with the way the fuel is refined in winter because diesel, winter diesel is so different from summer diesel that, you know, any issues that you have are going to suddenly be, you know, noticeable because of that change in fuel.

Okay, good.

And so I, I don't think everybody realizes, I mean, they hear this, there's winter blends or summer blends, but I don't think they really think about that when they're getting their fuel or even how it'll creep in and kind of creep out because you'll still get some summer blend with winter blend. You know, it's, they mix it. They don't like empty out the tank and put in winter blend. So you're kind of getting two blends for a while.

But I don't think anybody really notices or thinks about that. And it's an important thing to keep because that winter fuel is different than summer fuel.

And you know, when people think of winter or blended fuel, they're thinking of a lot of fuel stations will mix the fuel with number one diesel. But that's not really the only thing that's happening. You know, the refineries are changing the process on how they refine that fuel as well.

So it's really kind of a two pronged difference.

And they probably will never tell you what they really put in that fuel, will they?

Absolutely not.

That's awesome about gasoline. They don't let you know. Just trust us. All right, so would it be fair to describe injectors like a spray bottle?

So if the spray pattern is weak or messy, you don't get a clean burn, especially when everything's cold.

Absolutely. So the finer that mist is, the more surface area is available for that fuel to burn.

I always use the analogy of like if you were dissolving sugar into water, if you had rock sugar, it's going to take so much longer for it to dissolve because larger pieces, less surface area. But if you added powdered sugar, it's going to dissolve almost instantly.

So it's really kind of the same, you know, concept of, you know, just available surface area for the fuel to burn. And so whenever it gets pushed out and the exhaust stroke, those particles are much smaller.

And you have a lot less unburned fuel when you have that ideal spray pattern.

With that in mind, how does that affect the DPF during the winter months?

Yeah, so that spray pattern, you know, any unburned fuel is going to cause more buildup in the particulate filter.

So any, any those larger particles of unburned fuel are going to clog it a lot faster just because they're bigger and they have a larger surface area as well. It really all starts in the injectors.

You know, as long as those are functioning properly, we're not going to have as much buildup in the particulate filter. So all of this is compounded, you know, based off of injector health.

Basically, it's a messier burn, more soot, more DPF workload, it's going to be working harder. And that equals more regens, right?

Absolutely.

That's pretty simple.

And then when you're, when the RV or the, the engine is trying to regen more often, it's going to use more fuel and just not be such a good driving experience in a lot of cases.

Yeah, absolutely. So you use fuel during the regen process.

So you know, the amount of fuel that's being used for that is going to lower fuel economy as well, along with it being less efficient because of the worst spray pattern. So you're really being hit, you know, on both sides.

You're regening more often, using more fuel during your regens and then you're also, you know, being less efficient in the fuel that you're burning in the engine as well.

Makes it really simple for people to understand. This is nice. We're going to talk about your competitors a little bit. Well, not directly. So we basically get into what most winter additives miss.

So it seems like a lot of winter additives just focus on the cold flow improvement, you know, the anti gelling products and that's it. So in, in your, I guess, expert view, what do these products really miss when it comes to winter drivability?

I wouldn't necessarily say that that's missing something because there's only so much room in a bottle for you to add active chemistry.

Each of those active things that you add in there, whether that's cetain or lubricity, detergent, anti gel, all of those things require a minimum amount to be effective. So you can put all of it in the bottle and you can have stabilizer, you can have cetane, lubricity, anti gel, everything in the bottle.

But you don't have enough of each one of those things for them to all be effective. So a lot of anti gels are really, because you, you need a large amount of that for it to be effective and you know, keep the fuel operable.

So it's really not a matter of, you know, a one size fits all additive that's missing something.

It's a matter of like a, a maintenance program that you know, you would want to use to be the most effective, you know, so using an anti gel, you know, might have some cetaner lubricity in it, but then also using water removers and then also detergents as well.

So it's, it's not necessarily going to be one bottle that has everything in it, you know, because if it does have everything in it or it says it has everything in it, you're not getting enough of each one of those for them to do what it says it's going to do.

Yeah, so the anti gel companies, they're just, their intent is to make an anti gel and that's it for the most part.

Yeah, we have an anti gel and it doesn't have any detergent in it. Because you need so much of each one of those chemistries to put both of those in the same product.

It just wouldn't be an effective anti gel or an effective detergent. And so there, there is a reason why we se out the products the way that we do.

Yeah, that makes sense. And from talking to Garth, you guys are kind of really dialed in on what you do, which is nice. So one product is for this, one product for that.

And what I like too is when you go to a store, you see all your products there and you can buy what you need and have them all on hand, one brand, which I think keeping it all in the same ecosystem sometimes is a good thing because you know how your products work with each other in that field. So it's just nice.

So anti gel basically is just going to keep that fuel moving, but if the system's dirty, the anti gel isn't going to magically restore a clean spray pattern or reduce suit or reduce soot. Is that correct?

Yes. So, you know, anti gel chemistry and detergent chemistry are very, very different. So there really isn't any crossover between the two.

You know, they're not going. Detergent's not going to help with, you know, keeping the fuel liquid in cold weather, and anti gel is not going to clean injectors.

So you really do need them both.

Okay, so yeah, you just answered that. So you need them both. One of each. Cool.

So it really helps it because some people probably even leery about putting, mixing another product with their anti gel, but you guys make the products and put them in individually, so that obviously is okay to do, correct?

Yeah, absolutely. All of our products are compatible with each other.

We do all of that testing to make sure that all of our branded products are all compatible with each other.

Let's talk a little bit, how it works, when to use it, what to expect. So how does a one tank flush work in real life?

So walk us through the simple steps like you're explaining this to let's say an RV owner At the gas station. At the gas pump. Fuel. At the fuel pump, yes.

So in most simple terms, a detergent or injector cleaner acts like a soap would for like laundry. So it's a very specific soap that is designed to go after what the injector deposits are made out of.

And so while that's in the fuel, it's actively removing all of those deposits from the injectors. And then once the injectors are clean, provides a little bit of a barrier as well to prevent new deposits from Sticking as well.

And so that same detergent is also active once the fuel's been turned into exhaust and can help clean up the soot that's in the particulate filter as well.

How hard is it to put this into the tank?

The trick question, it's, you know, it's. You just pour it in. You know, I always tell people to add it before they add fuel so it mixes well.

But, you know, it's, it's really, it's a little bit more difficult on the fuel ports that are the capless ones that have those little, you know, levers in them. So we have, you know, the long night bottles a little bit. Makes it a little bit easier for that.

So you don't have to use a funnel, but yeah, you just pour it in and go.

So you hit the long neck bottle. I like that because Garth brought that out. And that's a great point, because a lot of products like this don't have that long neck bottle.

Yeah. And using the funnel is a pain.

Yeah, exactly. Or putting something in there to hold the little door open while you pour it in so it doesn't back.

Absolutely.

So in real life, how quickly would someone, or could. Could a owner of an RV or a diesel truck, whatever it might be, notice, improve?

So in all of our field trials, you know, we saw the benefits start to kick in within like 50 to 100 miles or within the first hour of operating. So it's very incredibly fast. It really kind of even amazed us while we were doing all of this research how fast it was.

So you'll, you'll start to notice more power and more, you know, pedal response just almost immediately.

It's right away. And we like that today. Everybody wants things immediate satisfaction.

Would it be fair to say then that if you have a mechanical problem, let's say an ejector is just flat out going bad or a DPF issue, is this going to fix it or is that mechanical issue still going to be there?

So something's physically broken. Additive's not going to be able to fix that.

But, you know, if it's a problem that's, you know, caused by too much buildup, then, you know, it can absolutely help fix that and, you know, avoid costly repairs. But if something is broken, you know, something's completely clogged where nothing's getting through, it's going to be a little bit trickier.

Not the cure all for a mechanical issue is really the point.

Yeah, absolutely.

It might help it a little bit, but it's not going to solve it.

Yeah, and we'll never claim that an additive will fix everything. You know, there is a limit to what additives can do.

You know, we try to, you know, push those limits as often as we can, you know, but they're, you know, an additive is never going to be a, you know, miracle cure. For every issue that you have, there's.

A product, I think I'm not even going to say it. It claims that the name of it is like, you know, but anyway, because we're not getting into bashing other companies, that's not what it's about.

We've kind of touched on this. Is it the best time to put it in the spring as you get into winter, middle of winter? When should this be added?

So ideally you'd want to add it, you know, before winter hits, just as part of your, you know, winterization prep. But we do recommend adding it, you know, like once a month, you know, and periodically as well, so during winter also.

Right.

So it's really should become more of a maintenance thing where you're just doing it once a month, you know, and I think the bottles are like 15 bucks at most stores for the one treatment deal. So that's pretty reasonable. You just add that to your fuel bill for the month. That isn't much.

Yeah. And it's hard to give, you know, you know, recommendations because everybody's use is a little bit different.

You know, some people drive, you know, one trip a month, some people drive, you know, 300 miles a day. So, you know, once a month is pretty vague. But you can, you can kind of determine when is best for, you know, your use case.

If winners come upon us, you know, maybe they haven't really looked at their checklist or kind of sort of. So they're, they want to avoid any downtime during the wintertime or avoid a ruined trip.

So what maintenance steps would really matter to a diesel owner that you can come up with maybe two or three of them.

Yeah. So we've, we've had, you know, for many years what we call the three step winter prep when it comes to fuel.

And the first step is going to be, you know, to dehydrate the tank to get as any water that has accumulated over the year out of there because that's what's going to plug up a fuel filter. First is any, you know, excess water that's in there.

So that is important to do before winter and then, you know, using an anti gel when temperatures drop is important as well.

And then we always recommend keeping a bottle of like the diesel 911 rescue additive, you know, just in case, because that's a little bit cheaper or a lot cheaper than a tow truck having to call a tow truck to get you out of a stuck off the side of the road. But then, you know, now we recommend adding in the diesel injector and DPF flush kind of when you would dehydrate the tank.

And that is just a really good, you know, preparation to get everything nice and clean because everything's going to work better in the cold when everything's, you know, working, you know, as optimized as it can be.

Cool. So what do you call that? Three step winter prep?

Yeah, we've, that's been one of our things that we've recommended for many years.

In winter it's, you know, use the clear diesel to dehydrate, use the diesel fuel supplement as your anti gel and keep a bottle of the 911 on hand just in case. Um, and so that's what we've kind of, you know, told people for many years to be prepared for winter.

Okay. Yeah, that's a good, good way to explain it. Very simple too. Three steps, right? How simple can it get? So we're going to, we're coming to the end here.

So what's, what's the biggest misconception diesel owners have about winter, winter fuel care?

So most people, you know, will think that, you know, the fuel is the same in the winter and the summer. I've touched on that, you know, many times during all of this. But winter fuel is just very different from summer fuel.

And so I do know a lot of people will, you know, fill bulk fuel tanks in summer and then they have a lot of issues in winter because of that.

Just knowing that the fuel is different and that no batch of diesel fuel is going to be the same from the next one, that it's just diesel fuel in general is just highly variable. Even more so in winter is just something that I feel like everybody should know and kind of keep in the back of their mind every time they fuel.

And so where can listeners RVers go to learn more about winterizing their diesel engines?

Yeah, so our website has, you know, a ton of information which we have a, we do have a fuels laboratory. We're one of the only additive companies that has our own laboratory and we test, you know, 2,000 fuel samples a year.

So a lot of that data is on our website. You know, we can compile that, you know, by region and you can take a look at all of that.

We have Lots of white papers that we've published and lots of research, all in the learning center on our website.

Very good. So you go to their website, PowerSource.com, right.

Service.com.

Yes, Power Service. I don't know where I get source from service. Sorry about that.

And that will be in the description of this podcast as well, powerservice.com and their website actually is loaded with information, so it's pretty cool. All right, so that's bringing us to the end here, Jessica.

So this has been absolutely awesome and thanks for keeping this really simple and practical so everybody can understand it and follow along.

And I want to thank for the listeners for paying attention as well, because it's definitely something that you can use in your RV lifestyle, whether it's RV and or just driving your truck, whatever it might be. Anything you have with a diesel engine power service is there to help.

So you're going to want to share this episode with your friends that own diesel engines, whether it's a motorhome pickup truck, whatever it might be, because they're going to find value from the power service interview and their injector flush. Now let's go to the quick tips and in this one we're going to talk about the spare tire.

Do you ever check it not just for air, air pressure, but the tread as well? A spare tire is very important to the RV lifestyle or just traveling in general. Now maybe you can relate to this.

You know, you're driving down the highway and all of a sudden you get a blowout. You're stuck on the side of the road and you're thinking, ah, no problem, I'll just put on my spare.

So you pull the spare out and you pull it out of the back of the car from underneath the truck and you give it a bounce and it just kind of, it doesn't do much. You think, well, I'll put it on and see what we got cooking here. You put it on, you lower the jack down, you're thinking, wow, that went easy.

I'm doing good here. And the tire's flat. Wow, that really sucks. Right? And then you're thinking, huh, what happened?

It's because you're not checking it or you pull the spare out and it's bald, the tread's coming apart because you forgot you used it for a lot longer than you should have or you rotated one of your old worn out tires in and as your spare the last time you got a blowout and just kind of left it there. And then you got new tires and Then moved on. Okay, you can't do that. Make sure you're checking your spares.

Not only the pressure, but the tread, the condition of the tire, the age. And keep in mind too, if you're traveling in a car, generally they have those small compact spares.

Sometimes they're called donut spares or a donut tire. Those things are only good for 50 to 70 miles and they're not high speed either. And they're not the same size as your other tires and wheels.

So like if you have an all wheel drive vehicle and it requires all the tires to be the same size, you can't drive on that very long. That's just to get you to the next place to get a replacement for your tire or get it fixed, whatever it might be.

And you got to get that donut spare off. And remember, they don't last forever. They're not all weather and they're just cheap tires. If at all possible, put a full size spare in the vehicle.

If it's possible, that's the better way to go. And you're not being controlled by that little donut spare. So keep your spares checked and replace them probably before you need it.

On a trailer, you definitely want to do it probably every five years or every time you buy a set of tires, put a new spare on there. Even if you go with a lower quality one, you're better than just leaving one on there that could blow out as soon as you put it on.

In motorhomes I get it's more expensive, but your trucks and things like that, check your spare, it's your call. I would say five to seven years on that as well. So check it out. This weekend I'm going to ask you to check the spare tires on all of your vehicles.

Every single one. Make sure they're good. And what I want you to do after you do that, send me an email or text message and tell me what you found.

Did you find it a disaster? Include some pictures if you want. Was the pressure down to like £10 when it should be 70? Let me know.

So you can go to the smartrver.com the contact us page. You can text it, email, or actually do a video there if you'd like to. So now that's going to bring us to RV envy.

And now we're going to talk about making purchases that are outside of the RV industry. Now let me explain what I mean by that. So I got to give a little background here.

So just the other day I get an email and it's asking me to update my password. And it's for a server that we have where we keep all of our websites and stuff.

And I thought, well, that's kind of out of the ordinary, but it looked pretty darn good, looked legitimate, like it's really from that company. So I'm thinking about it for a moment. I thought, you know, they've never sent me an email like this before. It's never been an issue.

And if I do need to change the password, I would normally get a prompt when I go to log in. So I just deleted the email. I said, this ain't, this is spam. This isn't real.

Someday maybe I'll get a prompt when I go to log in to change my password. But it still doesn't mean that email is legitimate. It could just be a coincidence that it came at near the same time.

So there's nothing catastrophic that would happen there if I go to log in, have to change my password, because that's how it normally works. But my point is there's a lot of people who are trying to take our money, trying to take your money.

And they're fraudsters, they're trying to steal it, they're trying to get it any way they can because they want to make some money the easy way, right? So you have to be very careful when you're making online purchases. You know, an email is just one example where people get scammed all the time.

But when you're making online purchases, you have to be very careful. Money's tight today. You know, there's a shortage of it and I get it.

So sometimes we might want to go to like the garage sale website or maybe the Jungle website because they offer products that are so much, so much cheaper, less expensive than the brand names. And this is what I'm getting to, the brand names.

And sometimes it seems like you're saving money, but are you really saving any money in the long run? Now, for example, Dometic is a brand that's, let's say they're thermostats.

You know, a 10 button dometic thermostat could be $250 in an RV store or a legitimate website, maybe a little bit less. But on the Jungle website it might be half that price. It might even be less. It might be $55, $60, $70. There's something wrong there.

And they're going to present it like it is a Dometic thermostat, like it's the legitimate deal. But when you look at them, you can see there's a difference. They're not identical and the quality is not there.

So you understand the difference in qualities. And we're not just talking electronics in general, we're talking everything. But in this time we're talking about specifically electronics.

The solder joints aren't at the same quality. They use lower quality wire, they use lower quality transistors. The little parts inside of it, the resistors, I mean, not transistors.

All the little components are cheaper, they don't last. Sometimes they last for maybe 30 days, 45 days.

And on these websites you don't have a long warranty and the manufacturer probably doesn't really exist because they're just selling on these websites out of a garage or a small shop someplace and they're not keen on warranties. You have 30 days with Amazon or the Jungle as I call it, and that's about it.

So you might save some money up front, but if you have to replace it, 45 days later you're buying another one again, are you going to buy another low quality one? Thinking, well, that first one I got was probably just a, it was a glitch, a one time deal.

If you buy a second one and it fails, this is what I call self inflicted inflation.

Because you've thrown away some money that you could have just bought a good quality Dometic one or even a Micro Air one to replace it and you move on with life and you're done with it. And I know sometimes it costs more. That's the way it is. If you buy quality up front, you're not going to be buying it again.

And then you have a real live warranty. You have a warranty through Dometic or Suburban or Coleman or whoever. And these platforms don't really care what they're selling on them.

If it burnt your house down, they don't care. They're selling products. You have individual sellers making their 3% on something or 4%. Think about that. They're not making a lot.

Amazon's making more than they are, that's for sure. Or ebay, the garage sale and the Jungle website. Be cautious when you're making these purchases.

And I'm not saying every single purchase is going to be bad on these platforms, but just be cautious. They're not always that great, even in the RV industry. And that's where I'm talking about the RV industry.

The brands that are selling in the industry, they're really clamping down on resellers selling on Amazon because of the problems with the knockoffs. They're tired of their stuff being knocked off. So think about that before you make your next purchase. Is it going to be worthwhile? And I get it.

Saving money is very important these days. But sometimes when you save, we actually spend more. So I want to give everybody a reminder to sign up for our newsletter.

You can go to our website and sign up. I'll put a link in the description of the podcast as well.

And so we're kind of revamping that and we're going to get definitely get more on the ball and sending out some newsletters, following up with emails and new episodes, things like that. We're kind of redesigning the whole show on the backside. So that's why a little bit of change up here.

I haven't really said anything about it because we're kind of just working through it right now. In our next episode is going to be 196 and we're going to talk about water lines, actually, RV water lines made simple.

How to replace a fun faucet without leaks. So, hey everybody, it's been a great show. We've covered some ground today. And as always, if you want to reach out to me, go right ahead.

I have the phone number in the description. You can go to our website as well, the smartrver.com and use the Contact Us page. Love to hear from you.

So that's going to do it for today's episode of the Smart rver podcast. Thanks for listening. I'm Eric Stark, and if you'd rather be camping than sitting in a repair shop, you're in the right place.

Until next time, take care of the little things and enjoy the trip.