You've heard about the physical symptoms of long COVID—the exhaustion, the brain fog, the feeling like you aged 40 years overnight. But what nobody talks about is the mental sh*t storm that comes with it. Arjanna van der Plas, leadership coach and mom of two, shares her raw experience navigating long COVID while running a business, parenting young kids, and confronting the hardest thing of all: asking for help.

What You'll Learn:

1. What long COVID actually looks like day-to-day (spoiler: it's not just being tired)
2. Why "independent woman syndrome" becomes your worst enemy when you get sick
3. The mental trap of feeling like a burden—and how to break it
4. What doctors actually tell you to do (do LESS than you think you can)
5. How illness can teach you about gratitude, boundaries, and self-care

Real Talk Moments: Arjanna opens up about napping on the couch while her kids watched iPads ("doesn't feel like the best parenting, but it works"), her husband literally sending her to bed, and the identity crisis of watching her business shrink while she couldn't show up. Plus, Danna draws powerful parallels between long COVID and depression—the mental exhaustion, the internal battle between what your brain wants to do and what your body allows.

Arjanna's Wisdom: "Other people have rough lives too, and they're also busy and they're also tired—so I cannot burden them with my needs." Sound familiar? Arjanna unpacks how this thinking kept her from getting the help she desperately needed.

Connect with Arjanna van der Plas: through Women's Hub or as part of her collaboration with business partner, Nele, at Clüver and van der Plas Coaching and Consulting.

Join the So Frickin' Healthy Community Get access to our extended cut episodes and support the show by signing up as a Member of the So Frickin' Healthy Community. You can join as a free or paid Member! We appreciate you listening! Join the So Frickin' Healthy Community

Check Out Organilicious Jump on a free discovery call with Danna, and find out more about the Urban Cleanse program Book Your Free Call

This episode does not constitute medical advice, the thoughts and stories in this episode are for entertainment only. Consult your healthcare provider if you think you may have Long Covid.

Hello and welcome to another episode of the So

Freaking Healthy Podcast.

Hi, Donna.

How you doing?

Hey, Megan.

I'm good.

How are you?

I am also excellent.

I'm battling the sunlight.

As I mentioned earlier, we're doing our episode in the morning and I'm like,

ah, like a vampire because the sun's just coming in at the wrong angle today.

but you look gorgeous.

Thank you, sun.

Thank you.

You too.

Okay.

No, no direct sun right here.

There's just a lot of clouds and rain.

I

don't know how you scored sunshine, but.

Yeah, so today we are joined by Ariana VanderPlas and we are talking

about the mental component of Long Covid.

And obviously covid is a trigger word for a lot of people, but we are

talking about personal stories today.

So don't come for us.

We're not, we're not doing anything wrong here.

We're just talking.

So anyway, we are going to welcome Arianna

, Danna: and now I'm cracking

up because of the intro that you gave me of like, Donna, you shut up.

Do not talk about anything controversial when it comes to Covid

. Megan: Yeah, well, you know, whatever, if we get in trouble, we get in trouble.

But anyway, it's legit.

Let's get Ariana on here and let's talk about Covid.

Alright.

Yeah, I'm,

I'm like, I'm super scared to say anything now,

. No, no.

I think, I think indeed if we keep it to the personal story, we, we should be okay.

Nobody should be chasing us after the same thing.

Honestly.

I think we'll

be fine either way in controversies.

You know, get more viewers so I'm

all in . True.

That's what we're

here for . Let's

do it.

Alright, well why don't we just start with a basic introduction, Ariana,

like, who, who are you, where do you come from and, and why are you in?

We always ask cuz I think most of our guests are in Switzerland, so

maybe, how'd you got to Switzerland?

Yeah.

So

yeah, so I'm originally from the Netherlands.

I ended up in Switzerland because we spent a bit of time in San Francisco.

That's where both of our kids were born.

And then we realized we wanted to be back in Europe, but then in a

place where there were mountains.

As you may know, the Netherlands is completely flat.

They're like, where

is a place with mountains that is close enough to to home so

we can hang out with families?

So that's how we ended up here.

Uh, so I'm spending my time here.

About being a parent, uh, but also as a leadership coach, and the way my kids

explain what I do is that I help people get along better and understand themselves

better so that the world is a bit nicer.

So I, I have to agree with that.

That's, that's basically what I do.

when I'm not sick with Covid.

That is,

yeah.

Oh, great.

So, um, long covid, uh, I did of course, a little bit of research.

Uh, that's my job in our little duo here.

Donna is the , Donna's the hippie research.

She, she just floats here, , she and I was doing, she just

comes for the, for the fun.

Uh, and anyway, I I, I don't even want to, I can't even pronounce it.

I don't have it up on a screen how, but it is, there is some kind

of technical, uh, uh, version of what they call the, the long covid.

And, um, and I personally, I know my doctor, as I mentioned in one of my

posts about this episode, my doctor's actually closing her practice because she

has long covid, she's kind of closer to retirement age anyway, but not retire age.

But she decided to close her practice because she just simply can't.

doesn't have the energy to see, um, clients.

And, uh, I know another YouTuber as I mentioned, uh, the physics

girl who's also, and her case, I guess, is really bad in terms of

she just can't even get out of bed.

Uh, so I, it looks like there's a wide variety of what long covid is.

And where, where did you fall in on that spectrum and, and how did, how

did you even figure out that you had.

Yeah, that, that's a, that's a big question actually, because,

Arjanna van der Plas: so I, I went to the doctor's cuz I'd been sick for so long

and I had had covid so I figured like, oh, this is what people tell you about.

And basically the only thing they can do is they just check your symptoms

and the fact that you had covid and then you belong in that big bucket

of people that have long covid.

So it, it's really a clinical diagnosis.

It's not like something they can measure in your blood or anything.

It's just the symptoms.

And I think, but it, and it's, I think it's like about 200 symptoms

that belong in this bucket and I had like 10 of them or something.

So it's really quite vague.

But, but what you generally see is that people get sick with covid.

This is how it happened to me.

I got sick with covid, nothing bad.

You know, I had the, the, the muscle eggs and I was tired.

It was like, oh yeah, here we go again.

It was the second time for me.

Mm-hmm.

got better and then, Literally a week later got super duper sick,

like coughing long, so tired.

I literally felt that.

I was like, I was an elderly person.

I couldn't walk up the stairs without getting exhausted.

And I'm a sports girl, right?

I love to move.

I love to be outdoors.

And here I am climbing the stairs, at stairs, I'm being.

Bed basically.

So it was just this really odd sensation.

And then, you know, it lasts for a week and you're like, I'll get better.

I always get better after a few days and another week you're like, I'll get better.

This is just a tough one.

And then another week and another week, and it just stays the same,

like the symptoms don't change at all.

There's no progress.

And when I went to the doctor, I was like, I think I have that

thing that's so hip right now,

And, and he confirmed and said like, oh, I can write a letter for, you know, for

your employer that you can work less.

I'm like, well I employer

this is a problem.

Um,

yeah, that's crazy.

So, so basically you, you got covid, you got better, and then it sounds like

you almost got, you know, remember at the beginning of Covid where everyone

was talking about, you know, hard to breathe and, and the coughing

and everything, it sounds like.

Those symptoms only came later.

So it was like the, the covid that you got was actually more flu-like?

Yeah.

And then when the long covid hits, it was more covid like symptoms.

Am I getting that right?

Yeah, actually I didn't think about it that way, but

that's, that's kind of true.

That's like the, the, the covid in the beginning when, when we didn't know

what to do and nobody was vaccinated.

That's, that's what it was like.

Um, this was really out of breath, the whole, all the time.

Super tired, like I could get out of bed, but I would schedule napps into my day to

get through , which also made me feel like an elderly person, a bit . Um, so I really

had to adjust my lifestyle and I had to explain to the kids, like, try to explain

to a five and a three year old , mommy cannot be running after you all the time.

Mm-hmm.

Donna, did you guys, did anybody in your family have covid,

you or any of the kids or,

yeah, we got Covid.

So Sky, my oldest got C O V D.

Uh, I don't remember when, like a few months earlier than us.

And then we were on vacation.

We went to Israel and we get, we went to Greece and then To Israel, or to, yeah,

anyways, to Greece and then to Israel.

And I guess on the flight to Israel, we all caught it.

And, uh, so sky caught it first, but never showed positive on the test.

And then we just kind of like dropped one after the other and got my dad sick.

But, um, but we had, I mean, it was really weird because for us

it was, the kids pitched a fever.

I had like a sinus infection and kind of low energy.

George the same.

And he had a fever as well.

I just never get fever.

But, um, but for me it was like a day or two and I was okay.

Mm-hmm.

. Mm-hmm.

. Um, and then I was just kinda like feeling low on energy for, for

a bit, but, but otherwise, okay.

And, um, . Yeah, it was kind of weird.

Like we, we did not have the same symptoms whatsoever.

Like each and everyone was, was mm-hmm.

showing different symptoms except for the fever with the, with the guys.

Um, and I just thought that I had too much dairy in, in Greece and that's

why I had a sinus infection, cuz that's what triggers my sinus infection.

Um, but

yeah.

The, yours was, yours was last summer, right?

Uh, when you went on vacation.

Um, Ariana, when did you get your covid?

Well, when did my Covid ? Yeah.

I was like getting a pass.

Did you name it?

. . Um, so, so the, I got it in November, which was the second time.

I also had it in, in March for my, uh, last year.

Right.

On my, yeah.

Yeah.

So right on my husband's birthday when we were supposed to go to the opera

house, I got sick and we couldn't go.

And then the second time was, was this November, and then early

December is when I got super sick.

I was on a romantic weekend with my husband.

We were going for a hike and I just couldn't get up the mountain anymore.

It was just coughing and out of breath all the time.

I was like, this is really weird and really bad timing, because we don't get

a lot of time, just the two of us, right?

Mm-hmm.

. So I was really pissed about it.

It was like, I'm gonna make it up that mountain until my husband said, uh, no,

Do, do you guys do either of, you know, I don't know, do either of, you

know, like people who got C O V in like.

2021 versus 2022.

Do we know if there's like more cases of long covid after

the cases in 2022 versus 2021?

That's a good question.

Well, because like for example, I got Covid in January of 2022 and I got it and

then my husband got it and we were bad like two days completely in bed out of it.

And then it took about another two and a half weeks of the same symptoms

that you were talking about Ariana, of like my brain didn't work, I couldn't

walk upstairs, I couldn't do anything.

But I also, it was like, it was like kind of like a sickness purgatory, right?

You're not sick enough to be in bed and do nothing, but you're not

well enough to do anything else.

Right?

But friends of mine got it later in the year also in Switzerland, and

they had said it was like a bad cold.

So I'm also wondering the severity and.

, you know what I mean?

Like, we all know that this thing has evolved and I'm wondering if the strains

in 2021 have more causes of long, I wonder if anybody knows that her listening,

they can put it in the comments.

But um, yeah.

Do you guys know?

I have no idea.

Yeah, I do.

I do know that it is changing, but you also have these people

that got it in 2020, right.

And then mm-hmm.

, and then they're dealing with long covid for like two years.

Mm-hmm.

. Um, I think that that's one of the scary things of this long covid thing is when

you look up how long it takes on average, I think the average is four months.

Wow.

And, and then you have like the extremes of people that have it for years and

like your doctor has to have to close their practice and things like that.

But so you get this disease and then you're like, okay, so for

most people, this is what their life looks like for four years.

. Like, you're your, it's really like I cannot really participate in society,

but I'm also not like, Complete.

So it's really hard to, to, to understand your boundaries, like your

new boundaries in that situation.

Yeah,

yeah.

Yeah.

Crazy.

Oh, it's, it is crazy.

It's very crazy.

So, um, how long then did it take for you to feel a hundred percent again?

Um, I don't know when it was like full on, a hundred percent, but after

two months it was significantly better.

Mm-hmm.

, which was great cuz that was I think three days before the Women's Hub day.

A big event that I do three times a year that I hope where

I'm hosting for a full day.

And I was, I was really like, how, how can I host a full day?

I'm gonna, I have to schedule in so many naps and sit down and I was committed

to doing it, but it was actually crazy.

And then I think like three days before I was like, I just walked

up the stairs and like, look at me.

I'm still breathing

. So yeah.

So after two months it was better.

But the tricky thing is, Whenever I do something that's actually too much

for me, I get like huge pushback.

So, you know, I host this Women's Hub day and it's amazing.

And then the next day I'm just in bed the whole day.

So it's this

sneaky thing.

So it's not gone yet,

it's just, it's not gone.

No, no, no.

And the other thing, just recently I decided to donate blood.

Um, I'm oh, negative.

It's like this is something I need to do for society.

Wiped out for five days after that.

Wow.

Like that was just too much for my system.

I think my iron was also still super low, which is quite common

with, uh, with long covid.

Um, Yeah, not a good idea.

So , I really Oh, that's insane.

Know better.

I need to be super mindful of, of not overstretching.

Yeah.

That's crazy.

So what, what was the like, that's insane for me because I think, you

know, we also always think that like, you know, giving blood is also helpful

to the body to kind of like regenerate and, and you know, fresh bud and all

that, but you were wiped out from it.

So I'm curious, what are the day-to-day kind of struggles?

What were the day-to-day struggles in the first two months before you

started feeling better and what are they now when you're better, but

still have to be ultra cautious?

Yeah.

So, so during, you know, actually being sick, one of the things

I realized is all my work in everything I do, I'm using my voice.

So when you're coughing all day mm-hmm.

, that's a disaster cuz I do one-on-one coaching sessions and

it's super distracting if I have like a 10 minute coughing spell.

Um, or, you know, hosting events, you know, a lot of it

was online so it was great.

But when I'm in a room with people and coughing the whole time, people don't

really appreciate that these days.

no.

So that was just socially very tricky to balance, like, what can

I do also towards other people and also also my energy level.

So I, I remember a day where I had, um, I was leading a workshop in the morning

and one in the afternoon in a hotel, and I literally just send people out of the

room so I could nap in that hotel room.

In between sessions, I really had to be mindful of my energy management,

especially when being with a group and, and honestly I think.

too much.

I shouldn't have done those things.

Mm-hmm.

, but then, you know, I'm also self-employed.

Like this is, this is what I do.

Um, so it's hard to say no to those things.

So it was really, um, yeah, really tricky for me to embrace like, oh, this, this

is the amount of energy that I have.

And also with the kids, it's a huge problem.

Like, cuz I normally, you know, I'm from the Netherlands, we bike everywhere.

I couldn't bike , like that was much too much for me.

So I would go pick them up with the car, which is fine, is what most people do.

But for me, uh, that really felt like a big thing to, to

let go of that biking habit.

And, um, yeah, just the, the logistics, like for me, I spent my, uh, Monday and

Wednesday afternoons with the kids, but that was almost impossible for me to

have a whole afternoon all by myself with these super energetic little beings.

I had to ask for a lot of help to get through those afternoons that are

important to me, but I just couldn't.

Fully do anymore, it would just take too much.

Um, and then on the days that I didn't have help, I would , you know, have

the iPad nanny and I would just be napping on the couch next to them,

which, you know, doesn't feel like the best parenting in the world.

But , it works.

Um, I

disagree.

I think, you know, self-care is

most important.

No, yeah, no, you're, you're so right.

That's so true.

Um, and then now I guess I'm still, like with the, the donating

blood, I'm still surprised sometimes what I can and cannot do.

I think in terms of, , you know, my energy levels when it comes to sports or being

in the mountains are, are pretty good.

Mm-hmm.

. Um, but then this, this whole blood donation thing explodes in my face.

Right.

So it it's crazy.

Yeah.

It's, it's kind of, I'm still kind of navigating in the dark a little bit where

what, what can I do and what is too much?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I wonder if that makes sense though, because you know, your

blood has your red blood cells in it, which transports your oxygen.

Right.

And if you're any anyway struggling to breathe and, you know what I mean?

Like if a, a lot of it sounds like oxygen deprivation, right?

Yeah.

Walking up the stairs, brain fog, so on and so, yeah.

So I didn't

have

the brain fog.

That was the good news.

My brain was still working, which is why I coulds Good.

I could still do the workshops and still be coaching.

Um, so I was, luckily I didn't have that and I, I, uh, it was mostly.

the energy and the, and the coughing and the being out of breath after like small.

. Megan: And so I have, I have a couple questions, but let me,

let me do 'em in the right order.

. So the first question is based on what you were just talking

about, your day-to-day struggles.

So how many of your friends and family, or cuz you don't have

family here necessarily, but how many people around you knew that

you were going through long covid?

Did you tell people and, yeah, definitely.

Okay.

What was their reaction to that?

Like, were they nervous to be around you?

And that was kind of going to my second question is, is it technically contagious?

Because I couldn't find anything about that.

So that might've been, I think that's probably a popular question.

Uh, yeah.

With long covid

. Arjanna: Yeah.

I think so.

So the people close to me, um, they were worried about me of course, because, you

know, you, we've all heard the stories of people that have this for two years and

they were like, wow, if that's you mm-hmm.

, that really sucks.

And also, you know, for my husband, we were really.

Thinking about if this is who I'm gonna be in the coming year, what does it

mean for how we organize our lives?

Because you know, there's a lot I cannot do.

And if this is long term, we need to, you know, adjust some of our plans.

So, um, . Yeah.

So there, there was a lot of worrying and also just practical implications.

Um, I didn't get a lot of people that were scared to get sick.

Um mm-hmm.

. I also, I think you are not contagious anymore, but I'm not,

I, it's not super clear, right?

Mm-hmm.

, um, at least nobody, nobody got sick.

Like, well, every, everybody was sick this winter, I feel, anyway.

I mean, there were a lot of people having really nasty colds, and my

daughter had pneumonia and it was, it was like the worst Christmas ever in, in

terms of her house.

Um, no.

Oh, sorry.

Yeah, sorry.

No, also in terms of my work, I've been, I, I also shared this with

the people I work with, obviously.

Um, uh, so both Nila, who's my, my business partner and, um, my

co-host with the Women's Hub.

You know, she had to really help me get through some of the marathon

sessions that we were doing together.

And, um, um, so of course we talked a lot about what I could and couldn't

do and where she needed to step in.

But also, um, you know, my, my clients, I. Just be honest about,

Hey, this is what's going on for me.

And well, for example, when I was leading the workshop in the

hotel, I just, I was just honest.

I was like, yeah, I'm gonna need to take a nap in between.

I'll be there, uh, but this is what's gonna happen.

Mm-hmm.

, uh, and we also, they were super accommodating.

So for one session we decided to move it online because my coughing was so bad,

and then at least I had a mute button.

Mm-hmm.

and people were not scared.

So, yeah.

Uh, no, people were, people were super nice and I, well at least they didn't show

much of the fear, more of the concern for,

for me.

Well, that's good.

I'm

kind of curious, is it, I just, while, while you were talking and

with, with, uh, when Megan asked, you know, if people were scared and if it's

contagious, I remembered this one guy who was on the news the way beginning

of Covid and I think he was even on a cruise ship, and he tested positive

for like, Months for like four months.

He was in quarantine and, and testing positive.

And I'm kind of curious, and I think he said he was actually feeling okay,

but he was actually testing positive.

So I'm kind of wondering like, was that maybe long covid?

Do you test positive.

When you, uh, I didn't

test positive anymore.

Okay.

And I did with, with my first Covid , like the regular covid in March.

I tested positive for weeks after I think four weeks or something.

And I was completely fine.

I didn't get super sick.

It was like this two days in bad situation, but nothing terrible.

And then, yeah, but then with this November covid I

tested negative quite quickly.

And also during the whole long covid thing, it's just negative.

Yeah.

Do we know if people are more likely to get long Covid

if they've had Covid twice?

? Arjanna: I don't know.

I don't know.

These

are all questions now I have to go look

up after this.

Yeah, we need to, we need to do some extra Googling.

But then still, I mean, I've done a lot of Googling while I was sick and they're,

so we don't know anything about this.

Yeah.

No.

We really don't know.

Oh, that's exactly what Megan and I were talking about just before

we came on, um, the video, because.

, you know, as much as we wanna give information and as much as we want

to share and kind of, you know, uh, uh, I don't know, give some food for

thought for our viewers and listeners.

Mm-hmm.

, there's really not enough science and not enough information out there.

I mean, I can talk about certain things that I heard, but they're not,

it's, it's just basically not enough.

There hasn't been enough time and there's not enough consistency of, you

know, as you said, there could be like a hundred symptoms and you had 10 of them

Yeah.

But at, at the end of the day, like it could literally be anything

that the doctors are like, Hmm.

You know, must be covid related because we don't really know why

you have all of these symptoms and everything else is testing negative.

Right.

So, you know, it feels to me like we're just at, at this new

era of trying to figure out what are the implications of having.

The vaccine, the covid itself.

You know, there's just kind of like understanding what, what our lives are

gonna look like now because of the last few years where it was really prominent

and really, you know, kind of getting

everyone.

Yeah.

I also wonder how many people.

Are being misdiagnosed as long covid and have something else

actually, because it's, yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like, because it is, like you said, the popular thing, the thing to have,

I mean I, you know, we're, we're making fun, we're joking, but it's serious.

But you don't, but how many people come in and the doctor's like,

well you, oh, you just had covid.

This might, this probably is it.

And then they just stop looking and then, you know, you have to give

some credit to the doctors obviously.

But on the other hand, if they have 50, you know, 40 out of 50 patients

come in and they just had covid and it makes sense that it's long covid,

why would you look for anything else?

And I'm just wondering, in two years from now when we have two more years of

data looking back, you know, how is that really gonna, you know, we're gonna have

to do a two year reunion on this episode.

Like what, what came out with this covid stuff?

Uh, long covid specifically, but I think these are all these questions and.

. I think that because there are so many questions, because there are so many

different varieties of this thing is why it, it can be so controversial

because, and because it's not clear cut, it's not a black and white

situation, this or that, you know?

Um, nobody argues if you have a little bit of cancer, you know?

Yeah.

You have cancer or you don't have cancer, right.

Yeah.

It's very, yeah.

. But something

like this is just so ambivalent and ambiguous.

I mean ambiguous.

Yeah.

I've been wondering that for myself too.

Whereas like, I mean, it took the doctor five minutes to decide that it had to

be long covid, and I was like, wow.

Also, I had a really quite intense year emotionally and um,

and everybody is getting sick.

There were a lot of people that were getting colds, like, what if this is just.

Picking up everything from everybody could, could have

been the case too, right?

It doesn't, I have no proof what this is.

And there's really a problem now with the, uh, the research, uh, because the

funding is getting less and less and less because the hype is less and less and

less, which I think, you know, in a way is good that we're getting back to normal.

But for, for those people that are dealing with long covid and have

the, the two year version mm-hmm.

, um, it's really sad that we're, we're losing interest and we're,

we're not learning enough about what is really going on for them.

And this is, at least in the Netherlands, there's a a lot of complaints about,

you know, the funding just drying up.

I don't know how that Islamic global level, uh, but it is a bit worrying

because it's so, you know, like with your doctor can really extreme impact on your.

. Megan: Mm-hmm.

. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

. And how, and how is, I mean, especially for people who work for

themselves, for your, your case and for my doctor's case, you know?

Yeah.

What kind of financial support do you get for, is it, is it turned

then a long-term disability?

Is it under, you know, is it covered under disability acts and things like

that that, you know, people who have severe migraines or chronic pain Yeah.

Who can't work.

I mean, is it now designated into this area where you can get support?

Probably.

That's a really good question.

Yeah.

Probably not everywhere, but hopefully some places.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, we're gonna take a short break now for a little bitty add.

When we come back, we're gonna get into the brain of Ariana and talk about the

mental part of all this stuff going on.

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Now, back to the.

All right, we all got our little drink of water and we're ready to dive into

the mental part of this, uh, episode.

And cuz that's kind of what, you know, what we've titled this because they

feel like, you know, the stuff that we've talked about in the first half

is really what everybody talks about, the physical aspects, um, how it

really affects your day-to-day life.

So when it comes to the mental part, um, as a business owner, and can you just

walk us through kind of what was going on?

in your brain when this was happening and how it affected your

mental health.

Yeah.

Um, so the extra layer for me is that, you know, I'm a coach.

I'm really interested in the mental components and what happens

to people when life gets hard.

So, , there was a part of me, like my inner scientist was like,

let's see what she's gonna do.

Um, and um, what I, what I, what I noticed right away is

this strong resistance to rest.

So for me to admit like, I, I'm actually sick.

I need to rest, is a really hard thing.

So I needed, I, and luckily my husband knows this about me, but he, he

literally would send me to bed and would explain to me like, I'm taking the

kids now and you are gonna be in bed.

And, and just embracing that that's what I needed and not like trying to

just keep going and, and, you know, sort of fight my way through it.

It was really hard.

So I think that that was the first thing that I noticed, especially when

I noticed, oh, this is taking longer.

This is not just like three days of doing, you know, taking it easy.

This is gonna be weeks of taking it easy.

Um, that was really a challenge for me.

And then the, the added component to that is then asking for help.

Mm-hmm.

, I have, I really have this independent woman syndrome.

So for me to ask my husband, Hey, I know you're tired too, but

can you take care of the kids?

Or to ask, um, friends here to help me with the kids or to ask Nele like,

I know we're running this three hour workshop and I , I will probably be

in zombie mode some of the times.

Can you take over when that happens?

Mm-hmm.

for me, that's a really big thing.

I never I or hardly ever have to do that cuz usually I'm super healthy.

Usually I'm super energetic.

So it was really, um, and I think a good learning, I think it's really

good to ask for help and to see that people really want to do that for you.

Yeah.

Um, that's been really healing, but, but it's been really hard for me to, to take

that step and to, and to even think about.

So people tell you like, you know, let me know what I can do for you.

And I would just blank.

I don't know what people can do for me.

. What?

So, so that's what I realized too, is like, I, this is,

I'm not programmed to think.

like that.

Mm-hmm.

. And then I realized like, oh, it's actually really concrete things that

people can do for me, like coming over when I'm with the kids so that there's

another adult in the room or cooking for me, or, um, or like neela taking over

when we're hosting a workshop together.

And I'm like,

. Uh, but I really needed to learn that.

And, um, but I, I think that the most difficult mental

component of this was, um, how.

small, I felt, and how boring the days are when you're sick.

. Mm-hmm.

, I'm, I'm someone that gets a lot of energy from doing things and being

with other people and making plans and, and here I was sitting, you know,

having to sleep a lot, which means when you're a business owner that you're

doing less outreach, you're, you're less outreach really, or less visible.

So I could see like, oh, you know, less clients coming in and I, I just

felt like I was shrinking and, and not part of, of society anymore in a way.

And mm-hmm.

, um, uh, yeah, that was really hard for my ego.

So, , I think that that was what also what part of what kept me going

and what kept me, you know, doing the workshops, even though I was

sick, was like, oh, I wanna, I don't wanna lose this part of my identity.

it was a professional part of my identity.

And when all this was going on and you, you had to ha

ask for help, what, what were you telling yourself in your brain?

Were you, were you chastising yourself at the time?

Were you like, oh, I can't believe I can do this, or were, or were you still

mentally positive with yourself and it was just more of these behavior change

that you needed to adapt in order to survive through this period of time?

I think my, my story that I have around asking for help is that

other people have rough lives too, and they're also busy and they're also tired.

Mm-hmm.

, so I cannot burden them with my needs.

So I can see that, you know, I had a, a rough year yet last year, my husband too,

cuz you know, he's part of our family evening, so I'm like, he's also tired.

He doesn't need, you know, me to be a burden on him.

So I'm always very focused on, it's, it's very easy for me to see that

life is tough for other people.

It's harder for me to see when life is tough for me and when I need to death for

help.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That, that word burden, I think is probably the big word there, right?

Yeah.

Because I think that's for anybody who's in a situation that needs to

rely on someone else who is normally independent is probably the key word.

Burden, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

. Danna: Yeah.

I mean, I can really resonate with that because I think that.

caregivers, and I think it's, it has, you know, for sure when you're a mother,

it's kind of like this, this holy grail of like, I need to take care of everyone.

But also as a woman, we are usually like the caregivers.

We're usually taking care of others and we're saying like,

oh, you know, we'll do this.

Is this for us later?

Or We'll take care of us later, which is just the, the worst thing to do.

But we all do it.

And I think I can really resonate with just like, you know, you know that even

when it's a simple cold that the entire household gets and you eventually get as

well, everyone is laying down, everyone is watching TV and drinking their tea that

you made, but you can't actually be sick.

Right.

So you can maybe drink your tea for one afternoon and go like,

all right, I need to get back to taking care of everyone else.

Yeah.

And it, it gets so much worse when you're down.

Yeah.

And you're unable, really physically unable to get up and

do stuff as you usually would.

and at the same time, you know, not think of your husband as you said, or you know,

friends who have their own kids, why would they come and take care of my kids?

You know, all of these loopy thoughts of like, why is my life

worse now that everyone needs to jump up and, and help me?

And you know, then I'm like the party blooper in a way.

It is probably the most difficult part in, I can imagine every woman

or any caregiver's life where they need to step down and say, okay,

this is time for me to take care of

myself.

Yeah.

And I felt I was stretching it so much.

I was like, I did a weekend where I asked my husband to go out with

the kids both afternoons and then to realize like, oh, but I have

to do that again the next weekend.

And the next weekend.

It's like I was already feeling so proud of myself for asking it for one

weekend and then you're stretching and stretching and stretching

and then that was really hard.

And I think the.

Maybe the hippie part of this story.

Uh, what happened, what I found really fascinating is, so the,

the week I started feeling better, once the week I got a lot of help.

And it was, um, a friend coming over and she gave me this hour long

massage where all I had to do was just lay down and I was just so relaxed.

And then, um, I was talking to, uh, I had a call with who was

also at the Women's Hub Day.

She does these beautiful meditations and she said, Hey, I can just do

a meditation with you right now.

Like, we can have this call, but we can also, you know, take an extra 15

minutes and I'll just meditate with you.

And I was so touched by all these things that people were doing for me, and I got

better that week, , which is like, it's always like, oh, was that the lesson?

I had to learn to, to not just take the bare minimum that I needed from

other people, but actually to be spoiled by, by other people that way.

Yeah.

To accept it lovingly, basically.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

, Arjanna: yeah.

Mm-hmm.

. Yeah.

Did you ever get, that's

really interesting.

Did you ever get frustrated?

Um, and kind of like, yeah.

Frustrated would probably be the best word.

That you're not getting better and Yeah.

Did you know like , any lashing out where you're like, because you, you're normally

I feel like a pretty positive person.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, uh, and I am as well.

And usually then if I'm not positive, my husband knows something is really wrong.

So, did you experience any of that where you would normally, you know,

you would normally have had a positive outlook, but then you kind of, may, may,

like, was your, was your tension on a little bit of a tighter leash because

of this, like snapping a little bit faster than maybe you would've normally?

I wouldn?

Well, you have to ask my husband.

Pretty honest answer.

I

think

, Arjanna: I didn't think I was snapping so much, but I was definitely quite down.

Like everything had was a bit more gray in in my world.

And I think a good example of that is that despite, you know, me being sick

and my daughter being sick, we decided to go to the Netherlands for Christmas

cuz we had this whole romantic idea of spending Christmas with the family.

And it was, of course, it was terrible.

Everybody was sick and we had no energy and it was just really a

nightmare and, and I remember.

just sitting in my bed while we were supposed to have lunch together or

something, but I couldn't do it.

And I was like, what am I doing?

What am am I doing here?

I don't wanna be here.

I I, why, why isn't, we deserve a good Christmas this year, , what's going on?

Um, and, and just this thought of like, oh, is, is just, is now

everything gonna be like this where I can have participate in things?

Yeah.

So it was more of a, of a, a feeling of being down rather than

snapping a lot, but more of like, oh

yeah.

Did you feel that it was like never gonna end?

Did you, like, did you have this feeling of like, crap, this is,

this is it, this is my life from now on and it's not gonna get any.

. Arjanna: Well, I, I felt I was gonna get better, but just not knowing when that's

gonna happen makes it super tricky.

So I felt like, okay, this might be a year I was trying to mentally prepare

for, you know, maybe this is gonna be a year that's statistically possible.

Um, and then, and then I was just like, okay, can I surrender to a year like this?

And I think I have

surrendered, um, not happily . No, no, no, no.

And, and always finding, I think when you surrender, you, you start

adjusting your life more than I did.

And I think the fact that I was still trying so hard to do my work and

still trying so hard to be a good mom shows that I didn't fully surrender.

And I, I imagine if I'd had done that more, It would've been a lot easier.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

. So anything that you, obviously you had to change your day-to-day routine.

You already mentioned a few things, building in naps and, and asking for help.

Now that you're feeling better, we won't say a hundred percent

because it could still kick in.

Right.

What have you adopted now in your lifestyle that came from long covid?

Are you still, like, are you taking better care of yourself in general now?

Or how has your life afterwards kind of changed because of that?

Well, first of all, I'm, I'm so grateful to be healthy again.

When I don't donate blood , do things like that.

Um, so it's, it's just awareness of wow, it is really a gift to have a

healthy body and to be able to do so.

So to just, yeah, have that sense of gratitude in, in regular life, which

is easy when you're just, you know, you just recovered from a nasty colon, you're

like, I'm so glad I can breathe again.

But just to keep that with you, um, I think that's what

it definitely did for me.

And, um, I think also more of an acceptance of, oh, I do, there, there is

a limit to what I can do and that's okay.

And I don't have to compare myself to another person and what they can do if,

you know, uh, I remember recently, uh, there was, um, a birthday party I was

invited to, and, um, and I just felt in that mor in the, the morning of, of

that day, I felt like, I can't do this.

And I, I'm, you know, maybe normally would make some sort

of flowery excuse around it.

And now I just said, Hey, I'm sorry I'm super tired and I

know I just need a quiet night.

And I'm not making a big deal of that.

That's just what it is.

So it's easier for me to communicate when I can or cannot do things.

Um, and I think one thing that, that I think more comes from my husband, but

I'm embracing it, is that I'm making more time for, for things that I do for myself.

So, for example, uh, tonight Neil and I are going to a party, um, and

then my husband's with the kids.

And so I'm having a bit more of those me time moments, um, scheduled in, which is.

really nice and mm-hmm.

and they're still a part of my brain that's stand like, oh.

But my poor husband had a long work week too, and probably

like to, you know, be together.

Cuz we, we had this, this was a week where we both had things in the evening,

so on and off and, you know, not, not not the best week for romance.

It's like, he probably prefer to be together.

And I'm like, well, and also I really wanna go dancing . Like,

I really wanna do that.

So to also acknowledge that it's okay, even though it's tough for him to, you

know, be, be at home, that that's okay.

And, and he will survive.

He's a show to me that he can do this.

And in a way I'm keeping people small by having this assumption that I

always have to be the strongest and I have to accommodate their needs.

I think it's a, that's a really good development.

Yeah, that's really good.

I mean, I'm, I'm glad to hear that.

You know, I, I can imagine that a lot of people can really

easily fall into depression.

having long covid and having it stretched so long and maybe not having the support

system that you have or the amazing husband that you have, or, you know, like

just everything that, that you have put in place for, or, or even the, I don't

know if it's willpower, but like the,

the ability to take naps during the day, for example.

Right?

Yeah.

I can imagine if someone is working at a corporate job and don't have,

you know, a way to, to schedule their naps in between or rest, whatever,

um, that, that could be super hard.

It's either having a, a job or not, basically.

And eventually job's gonna be like, nah, we can't wait

for you, you know, that long.

So I can really, through your story, I can really imagine so many other scenarios

of people majorly suffering through this whole ordeal, whether it's months or years

as you said, you know, um, I'm curious.

did when you went to your doctor or maybe you saw a more specialist?

I don't know.

Did anyone, like, what was their, what was their advice to you?

Like obviously they don't have a medication to give you because there's

no medication for this, but what was their advice for you, if anything, on

how to deal with this whole long covid?

Yeah, so they, they do give you medication, but

more for symptoms, so to Okay.

Get the coughing down and things like that, but not, yeah, it is not addressing

what's at the core of, of the disease and, and it's really, I think the one

thing that, what the doctor said, but that you read a lot too, is to really

do less than you think you can do.

Mm-hmm.

So you think you're okay.

, I don't know, host a full day.

Women's Hub Day don't do that.

Like take one step back and, and see mm-hmm.

what feels easy.

And that's, that's what's what you're gonna do.

You're not gonna go for, I think I can do the full thing.

You're go, you're gonna go for, oh yeah, that's really easy.

And then probably that's where you wanna be.

And that's what's.

also a bit of a mind fuck in a way where you're like, wow, but I'm feeling better.

Let's do it.

And then just get a smack in the face again.

So you feel, yeah, it feels like, in a way, it feels like you're

cheating a little bit by just taking it easy all the time.

Um, so you're being lazy,

right?

I mean, that's

probably the Yeah, but that's, that's why you're feeling,

that's why you're feeling good.

You're feeling better because you're not doing anything.

You're letting your body heal and as soon as you start doing something.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

But that's the thing, is that like, how long, you know,

because I kind of understand cuz.

You know, for people who are energetic as Arianna is like, I can imagine

that anything less than what you think you're capable of doing feels lazy.

Like I feel lazy.

I feel lazy when I have depression bouts or when I'm sick or whatever.

I feel like, dude, but I could probably do this.

Like, let's just do it.

And then obviously you're prolonging the problem instead of helping yourself, but

at the same time, you're feeling like you're putting yourself down for being

lazy or not doing as much as you could and then rest when you rest, you know?

Yeah.

So I can, I can really imagine it being a complete.

, uh, like a dissonance in your brain, like a complete, uh, uh, fight between,

you know, the good, the, the good.

What do you call it?

The good angel and the, the little devil on, on each shoulder.

Yeah, totally.

Kind of going like, you need to rest now.

No, no, no, you can definitely do this.

Stop being lazy.

You know, and that whole kind of conversation in your head

and you're like, well, what do I do now?

I don't know.

Yeah.

And then you go off and do a whole

day of, of women hub, and then you're, you crash.

So it kind of, you know, but at the same time I'm like, well, how do you know?

Right?

So how do you know when it's done?

You went, you did something that honestly, I would not have imagined having such an

impact on you, which is giving blood and.

To be down for five days afterwards thinking that basically it's kind

of already behind you in a way.

Yeah.

Or like the majority of long covid is behind you and then

being smashed for five days.

That to me says like, is it ever gonna be over?

Like, is it ever going to be the same as before?

Yeah.

That, that, I don't know.

And that, and that makes it tricky too.

And I also wanna go back to what you said earlier about, about depression.

So I, I've never experienced depression, but I, I did feel that this was getting

me to a dark place and a lonely place.

And I think if you're sensitive to, to depression, if that's, that's

part of your, uh, of your life, then I, I can totally see that an

experience like this gets you in that space where it's so hopeless.

You don't know how long this is gonna last.

You can't do the things that normally energize you.

You can, it's also isolating of course, like you see less

people, um, , I can really see how this can have a huge impact.

And I don't think we talk about that component of this

enough.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

We had a depression episode a couple to, um, couple episodes ago.

Yeah.

And listen to it.

Yeah.

. And we talked about, you know, and, and going back to what you were saying earlier

when you were asking people for help and they said, well, how can I help you?

And your mind goes to blank.

You know, it's like the same thing when it comes to depression.

Either a people don't know you're going through it because you put

on a mask and you go to work and you try to get through the day.

but with, um, something debilitating you, you don't, like you said, you

don't even necessarily leave the house, but how do people help someone

with long covid and how do people so help someone with depression?

I feel like it's almost like long covid is a physical manifestation

of, of, of depression, right?

It's like what, you know, you physically what somebody is actually

going through in their brain.

Like, I can't do this.

I can't get up, I can't do that.

And maybe they physically could, but they're mentally depressed.

Whereas long covid is like your brain, like you said, you didn't really

even have the brain frog frog, and your brain is going, I could do a

lot of things today and my body is just not gonna cooperate with me.

So it's almost, I mean, they're very intrinsically linked,

I think in that respect.

And like you said, it's a double whammy then if someone has, is predisposed to

depression and then also has long covid.

I mean that's, yeah.

Yeah.

The double whammy.

Definitely.

I love brain frog, by the way.

Yeah.

Thank you.

had to bring it up.

I'm sorry.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, um,

yeah,

I mean, I could really relate to a lot of the things

that, that you mentioned.

I could feel, you know, again, when I suffer from depression, I really do feel

all of these things without, without having the excuse, I guess, of long covid.

Mm-hmm.

And you know, when you say long covid, people are like, oh, poor you.

When you say depression, people are like, good luck with that, basically, or Yeah.

Yeah, kind of.

I mean, in a way there's not much that people understand how they can help and.

Yeah.

When, when you really do kind of put them one next to the other,

at least your experience With my experience of depression, I feel

like it's almost one-to-one in a way.

Like, maybe I don't have a hard time walking up the stairs and being

physically out of breath, but I feel mentally out of breath, you know?

Yeah.

Like, I feel like, okay, I, if I had to go one more floor up, forget

it, they'll take the elevator.

And so you do it because you kind of wanna push your body and, and you know,

that movement helps on the one hand.

Yeah.

And on the other hand, you're like, well, but I physically cannot.

So to me it's very, very kind of similar in what your body is trying

to tell you and what your brain is meanwhile trying to tell you and how

you're fighting between those two.

Mm-hmm.

entities and kind of not knowing how, how to ask for help or how

to, um, or how to help yourself really at the end of the day.

Because it's just something that is happening at the moment and.

That's kind of it.

So to me it was really, you know, I, it resonated with it.

I don't know if, you know, I I, I feel like probably a lot of people don't

necessarily even know if and when they have lung covid because they've

experienced other symptoms and other things and or depression and or autoimmune

disease, which has a lot of the sym symptoms that you'd see for long covid.

Mm-hmm.

Um, or they, or that triggered an autoimmune disease, which it can.

And then you're not necessarily aware of it because as Megan said,

you know, you go to the doctor, they look at you, they're like, oh, you

had covid two weeks before that.

Yeah.

It's probably long covid and things probably are being missed.

And so I feel like there, there could be a lot to, of course Megan is not

allowing me to talk about it, but I have my own thoughts, my own thoughts

and research on, on Covid in general.

I got vaccinated, I got the boosters, I got everything.

But at the end of the day now when, if you ask me now, like, would you do it again?

I probably would not have.

Um, but I'm kind of thinking like, you know, how many people are

actually suffering through this and are being told it's in your head

or are being told it's long covid.

And that's kind of it.

And you know, being in touch with a lot of psychiatrists, psychologists,

um, I, they are all telling me, like, and doctors, they're all telling me

so many people are sick nowadays.

We're overwhelmed with work.

Yeah.

A lot of people are experiencing depression.

A lot of people are experiencing long covid V in one way or

another, and they're overwhelmed.

I mean, like, so, so the entire system is overwhelmed.

The people are overwhelmed, the practitioners are overwhelmed.

Mm-hmm.

. And then at the end of the day we're like, okay, then what?

Now what do we do?

What can actually help?

Um, and this is why I asked, like, what did the doctor say?

Cuz I think.

, you know, in certain ways I'm sure that

some supplements

could

actually support you.

Yeah.

Just strengthening your immune system, getting your iron levels up, getting

your vitamin D when you're laying in bed and you know, the Swiss sun

that decides to pop up once, once a week, which is happening now,

um, is you are not able to actually get, grab those li those sunlight.

Um, you know, probably is good to, to know about some certain things

that can actually support your body.

Yeah, I think, I think, and, and this is when I, um, I

reached out on, on Instagram, right?

I asked people like, Hey, what would you do?

What would you recommend to do?

And then I was overwhelmed with all these, you know, things that

people do when they get sick.

And it was also, It was also hard cuz I felt like, oh, I need to do all of this.

But then of course, you, you really can't.

Um, and you shouldn't, to be fully honest, have to say this.

No, no.

And it, and it was also trick, kind of triggering like, oh, there are

all these things that I should be doing to get better and I don't

understand all of these things.

And I really had to find my own way and like, what do I do?

What do I believe my body needs, right?

Right now?

Right now, and one of the things that is super important for me, for my

mental health is doing sports, which I couldn't because, you know, I couldn't

even walk the stairs, let alone do my workout or do yoga or anything like that.

So one of my main tools for staying sane was taken away from me.

The, the other is being outside, you know, Bergzeit Mountain

time with the, the Swiss love.

It's one of my super important mental health tools.

Yeah, it could.

So one thing we did, we would go to the mountains and then we would

drive up like a mountain, a little hill, walk down, and then my husband

would get the car to pick us up.

Cause I, I couldn't walk back , so I would have my half

hour of walking down the hill.

So, so that at least I could be in the mountains.

But it's all of these tools that I would normally use that were now

not accessible and me trying to navigate, okay, what can I do then?

And indeed I took extra iron and, and things like that.

But yeah.

Um, yeah, it's really kind of getting to know yourself on a, on a, on a new level.

I, that's what

I was just gonna say.

I think that like people who go through a traumatic.

Event, losing a limb, going having cancer or something.

You learn a lot more about yourself when you go through an event like that.

Yeah.

And um, so I feel like even, you know, the silver lining, cuz there's always

a silver lining on everything, is that now you know how you react to this,

you know how you can cope with that.

And it's an experience that you've had that you can put into your toolbox

and say, if this ever happens again or something similar happens again,

I know how I'm gonna react to that.

I know how I can handle.

. And, uh, I think that's one of the most important things with every

experience in life, is just to reflect.

And it's basically what we've been doing today is reflecting on that experience.

And you mentioned just before that you hadn't really talked about this very much.

So, you know, just by talking about it for an hour, you know, you've kind of can

cement all of that really good knowledge about yourself and about, you know,

the, the growth that your family had.

Uh, you know, that's, you know, it's knowledge for them.

It's like knowledge for your family unit as well.

Yeah.

Like how you go under stress, because a lot of, a lot of family units under stress

can just simply fall apart, you know?

Mm-hmm.

either you get stronger or you fall apart.

There's, so it's, it's really interesting to see, um, yeah.

That you can acknowledge that there's some you've learned

about yourself and that this is.

part of the good thing that can come out of that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it's almost a survival tool for me.

When something happens that's difficult and I'm always

looking like, what can I learn?

And here too, in very early stages, I realized like, oh, maybe I'm finally gonna

learn something about asking for help.

Right.

I realize that quite quickly and

I think, you know, there's still

a lot to learn from me about asking for help and

I, I think I got a little

bit better , you know?

But you can use all of that in your coaching business to help

people work with each other.

Yeah.

Every you, everybody loves a story and now you've got a great story

about how you found these new skills and how they can work for you.

So see, it's, it's

all gonna work out in the end.

It's

all positive.

And if you ever had a doubt that your husband.

Is not the guy for you now you know for sure that he is cuz he sounds like,

yeah,

. Arjanna: I had no doubts but this, this, I think it was good for us as a family

unit to, to see that I can be weak and we still survive as a family unit.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Amazing.

So we're just about the top of the hour.

Wanted to say thank you very much, Ariana, for sharing your story with

us today on so freaking healthy.

, you know, you didn't feel so freaking healthy over the last

couple months, but now, now like you said, appreciating health when

you have it is really important.

And um, I think we touched a lot of things that we normally touch on,

knowledge and mental health and self-care.

So really appreciate the time you spent with us today, Donna.

Any last thoughts?

I'm just kind

of proud of myself for not saying anything that you, you know,

would trigger any . . You make it, you make it sound like

I've got something on your, in your room, like pointed at you.

And if you're gonna say something, it could trigger it over here.

. I mean,

um, no, but thank you Ariana.

It was really, it was really refreshing to hear it from someone who's been

through it and is, is still in a way, you know, suffering through the, the

side effects, the, the, you know, long-term side effects of long covid.

I guess there's like long, long covid we can call it.

Um, but, um, thank you for sharing that story.

And we really hope that your,

you

know, your old energy comes back sooner

than later.

Thank you so much.

And I do think, and maybe we can do that in our reunion episode in two years.

Um, but I do think it's important at some point to talk about

also the controversial topics.

Cuz I think we have a lot to learn from each other and from how we've

experienced this whole pandemic.

And, um, it's easy to to, to hide all of that.

But because it's scary because there might be conflict and, and

Megan might be pointing things at you that you don't want.

But I do think that it is important to unpack everything we personally learned

in the pandemic and, um, what we maybe would've done differently in next time.

Like, nobody has experienced anything like that.

So I think there's a lot of learning that we can, we can take from it still.

So, but stay tuned in two years we'll talk about that, right.

, Danna: mark and calendars.

Definitely.

Definitely.

All right.

Thanks everyone, and we'll see you next time.

Bye.

Bye.