Middlesex is more than just a name on a map; it’s a vibrant part of our identity and history that deserves to be cherished! In this chat, we dive into the heart of what it means to be from Middlesex, especially as changes loom on the horizon for local governance. Our guest, Russell Grant, shares his lifelong connection to the area and argues passionately for the preservation of our county's heritage. With Surrey’s upcoming council shake-up, the discussion takes a deeper turn, exploring how these shifts affect our sense of belonging and community. So, whether you’re a fan of genealogy or just love a good story about where we come from, this episode is packed with insights and a sprinkle of humor to keep things lively!

Takeaways:

• Middlesex is not just a name on a map; it's a rich tapestry of identity and history.
• The recent changes in local governance highlight the importance of maintaining our historical boundaries.
• Russell Grant's lifelong campaign showcases the significance of community identity in local politics.
• Understanding the difference between a county council and the actual county is crucial for preserving local heritage.

• The Sheppertonian Live! Get your free tickets.
• Island Motors
• LuvBiltong (try the Chakalaka flavour!)
• Join the Middlesex Facebook Group

Produced by Gareth Davies at The Sound Boutique

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One thing that is unchanging midst all of these changes is Middlesex. It remains. It's there. It's our identity, it's our history, it's our geography. It's part of our life. And I urge everybody to preserve this.

Look after this. If you're proud of being English or British, be equally proud of being from Middlesex.

Hello and welcome to the Sheppertonian. I'm Gareth and this is the local podcast bringing you stories, voices and events from in and around Shepparton in Middlesex.

That's Middlesex rather than Surrey and I'll let today's guest explain what the difference is. But before we get into today's episode, a huge thank you to the local businesses supporting the Sheppertonian through the Business Club Partners.

The Ferry Coffee Shop down at Shepperton Lock, a wonderful space for meeting friends or colleagues, meetings Meon Media, small business support based here in Shepperton, offering flexible support to keep things running smoothly in your business. And the Sound Boutique, thoughtful audio for every story. And to Island Motors, a business club member who offers local mot and servicing.

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A couple of things worth knowing about before we start.

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And the Sheppertonian Live! On Wednesday 3rd June, we're recording two live podcast episodes in front of an audience at Bishop Duppas Bowls Club in Shepperton. Doors at 7. First episode is at 7:40. It's free.

It's a proper evening out with a bar and tickets are via the link in the show notes or via the events page on the website.

Now today's episode. Surrey's local government is going through its biggest upheaval in 50 years.

Two unitary authorities are replacing the existing system and while we've already covered what that means structurally in an earlier episode with two local councillors. There's a dimension to this story that goes much deeper than council boundaries and bin collections.

It's a question of identity, of belonging, of what happens to a place's sense of itself when the structures around it are redrawn. My guest today has been asking that question for most of his adult life.

He's the founder of the Association of British Counties, author of The Real Counties of Britain, and the Lord of the Manor of Ashford in Middlesex. He's also a television personality. Oh, and he's one of the UK's best known astrologers.

He also has a personal connection to Shepperton that goes back decades and a very specific stake in what happens next. I had the pleasure of spending time with a wonderful person that is Russell Grant.

Thank you, Gareth, for bringing me onto the Sheppertonian, which I have been listening to for quite a while. I'm delighted to be on here and to explain a few things.

Russell's roots in this part of the world go back a long way and they're anything but abstract.

My it's changed now. And when I was living in Staines in the 80s and 90s, I lived there for 25 years. And I loved it. I love crossing the bridge.

I used to love just walking to the Middlesex Chronicle office in Church Street. So many happy memories. And the reason I wanted to live there goes back to the 50s.

Cause I had such a wonderful, jolly time when Nan used to bring me on the bus and we used to get off at Staines and I thought, oh, goodness me, I want to live there. And that's why I did. In fact, I lived in Staines longer than any other part of the world I've ever lived.

His connection to this part of Middlesex runs through his family too, all the way to Shepperton Studios.

My uncle John started off his movie career in Shepperton Studios, and I think he was nothing more than a tea boy there, from what I gather. But he grew up through the ranks, assistant director, producer, all kinds of things. But he went on to win an Oscar for the Deer Hunter.

And that all began at Shepperton Studios. And then when I bought my book out, The Real Counties of Britain, which became a bestseller.

And I got a call from Channel 5 and Sky TV, a lady called Dawn Airy, who was very high up there, in fact, she was Head of Programmes, Commissioner, and she said, could you make me a TV series of your book, Real Counties of Britain? I said, I'd love to. And it was produced from Shepperton by Vicki Sharp.

We had an office at Shepperton Studios, so all of those little programmes that went out and are still on YouTube, and some we've put on our Facebook group, our South Middlesex Facebook group. You can still see some of them. You see, for instance, dear Nick Pollard, a shining light in. In Shepperton, of course. I mean, looking so young.

I don't really think he believed himself. I think he put on Facebook. I didn't realise I was so ginger or something like that. He'd written and.

And my big, big promise to my many friends there is that if we do get to South Middlesex in the name, I'm coming back to live.

Russell's personal connection to the area eventually became something bigger, in fact, a lifelong campaign. And the moment it all shifted began with a lunch invitation and a Prime Minister who said something he's never forgotten.

I said, but you've taken away Middlesex. And she turned to me and I never forget.

And she went, what on earth makes you think that the abolition of a county council is the abolition of a county? They're two completely separate things. She said, what Parliament didn't create, it cannot abolish. And we never created counties.

You can go way, way back. She said to Alfred the Great. She knew.

And from that moment on, I realized that I was no longer living in a Staines that had an abolished Middlesex attachment. It was still there. Staines, Middlesex was still there.

That distinction between a county council and the county itself is the foundation of everything Russell has spent decades arguing. And with Surrey's own councils about to be abolished, it's never been more relevant.

But it was only Middlesex County Council that was abolished, not Middlesex. As next year, when Surrey County Council is abolished, as Middlesex was in 65, does that mean there will be no Surrey? Of course it doesn't.

If you follow the boundary of the Thames or the River Thames, that is the boundary between Middlesex and Surrey and has been for over a thousand years, that has never changed. You can't change geography as equally, you can't change history. What many people don't understand is, is that Middlesex is older than England.

England was created around 100 years after Middlesex was first documented.

We know that Middlesex was first mentioned in documentation in 704 AD, but actually we also know that Middlesex was created 100 years before that, the land of the Middlesaxons and Surrey. And we know it means susrij, which means southern region.

And it was either the southern region of Middlesex, which would make sense because they border each other, or the southern region of the kingdom of Essex, of which the Middle Saxons and East Saxons both formed a part of. And so therefore Surrey was a southern region of these Saxon areas.

And that Surrey part of probably only went as far as the North Downs, because the South Downs are in Sussex. And so that area between the South Downs and the North Downs is most probably part of the kingdom of Sussex, the South Saxons.

So you can begin to see the complication. You can begin to see the history, magnificent history. And the reason why identity is so important on one level is because it is a part of ourselves.

It's a part of our heritage, it's a part of where we've come from. There is a huge rise in the moment in people's love of genealogy.

We should remember that many clubs, groups and organisations, whether it's the Middlesex Federation of WIs, all of the Spelthorne, WIs belong to the Middlesex Federation.

Whether it's the football clubs, Staines Lammas, Middlesex, Ashford Town, Middlesex, Spelthorne Sports, they're all parented to the Middlesex County Football Association. So therefore Middlesex is active, it is not dying. So I would like to to make a plea now to everybody who's listening, who may be suspicious or cautious or not even approving of having South Middlesex.

In the name of the new council, I would urge you and plead with you, that for many of us, our history, where we come from, that part of Middlesex which you now occupy to the north of the Thames, was never changed, it never altered.

So it's about separating the County Council from the geographical and historic county. The campaign has been building quietly for years, but in the past 12 months, something has shifted.

It's moved from heritage advocacy to live politics.

We're delighted that the Spelthorne MP, Lincoln Jopp, has been very vocal in supporting us, actually, in the House of Commons itself. And he has a meeting coming up with the Minister for Local Government.

Now, I believe that's either going to be the Minister for Local Government, Communities, et cetera, which is Steve Reed, mp, or the Minister for Local Government only, and that's Alison McGovern and she's MP for Birkenhead.

We hope that obviously, because the proposal has to be and is cross party and apolitical, we will work with anyone who can give us our identity back and keep it there for as long as this particular council will last.

And we were delighted that Robert Evans, the Labour councillor from Stanwell, he put forward a motion not so long ago to Surrey County Council, but of course they're going to be abolished anyway, so to have all of that support. And I believe that the Spelthorn Liberal Democrats have it on their leaflets, which is very, very, very good.

And if, in fact, if anybody out there listening to this has any leaflets that have actually got on the leaflet, we support the proposal for South Middlesex. We would love to hear from you on our Facebook group because we would love to put it up there.

The momentum isn't just coming from party politics. Six residents from across the area took it upon themselves to go and make the case in person.

They were from Staines, Stanwell, Ashford, Halliford, Sunbury and Shepperton. There was a meeting with Lincoln Jopp, which the residents themselves asked for. Nothing to do with me.

They wanted to convince him that South Middlesex was the right name. And they rang me up and said, we can't find a venue, there's no venue to meet up with Lincoln Jopp.

And I rang up Ashford Town Middlesex Football Club, and I said to a smashing guy there, known as Miyazi, and I said to him, have you got a room? He said, yes, of course we have. We've got a room with The Middlesex flag up. I said, perfect.

So they all went there for the meeting and he came out of it. Well, I can't, you know, put words in his mouth, but let me put it like this.

He came out so much of a changed man that he mentioned it in Parliament, which was fantastic. So that was down to the, the ladies and gentlemen of the various parishes of Spelthorne who arranged the meeting, went to the meeting.

There is a lot of support out there and we know it.

I mean, I had a thousand postcards published and printed and a very beautiful map of South Middlesex done by a best selling illustrator, an award winning illustrator called Aidan Megan.

The Association of British Counties was founded by me, but I have no longer anything to do with it other than I'm just a member. It's now run from Cardiff, actually, and the Associated British Counties were brought together by me as a member or one of the founders.

It wasn't just me, the founders of the Friends of the county of Middlesex. There was a chap in Staines called John Gazda, Steve Fenn from Potter's Bar, now a Professor Cliff Batten who's still around.

Lovely, lovely Cliff, who was from Ewesli. Anyway, we all got together and founded the Friends of the county of Middlesex as a result of the Margaret Thatcher chat.

So we all got together and then I decided that as a result of that, wouldn't it be a good idea to reach out to the Yorkshire Riding Society and the Friends of Real Lancashire and all of these groups? In fact, I just suddenly. Well, in fact, I didn't even know they existed.

There was a Huntingdonshire group, there were lots and lots of groups and they're still growing.

And so I basically said to my friend Mike Bradford from the Yorkshire Riding Society, because we connected actually on breakfast telly, would you believe, when I was working on BBC Breakfast Time and he wrote me a letter, I used to get about a thousand letters a week, not just on Counties, trust me, it was more about how was it for Aries or is it a good year for Aquarius?

But amidst them all there were all these people when I would go on and talk about the starlet of the day was from Grimsby in Lincolnshire, I would get maybe 50, 60, 70 letters from people in Grimsby saying, oh, you called us Lincolnshire. You didn't call us Humberside, we love you.

And so that's how it began to happen that I suddenly realised there are all these groups out there and I didn't know. So I brought them all together. We had a get together and the association of British counties was formed by that. It's now Middlesex heritage.

So we've been going for quite a long time.

But now we are part of this bigger organisation, the association of British Counties, which brings together lots and lots and lots of counties all over Britain. So they all talk to each other.

And as a result of that, in July every year, no matter which government is in power, we have the British county flag day.

And on the green between the houses of parliament and the Middlesex Guildhall, they raised the county flags of every county in England up on the flagpole. But now, of course, it's spread out to Wales and Scotland too, so all the flags go up. So now we have Merioneth, we have King Cardinshire.

All of these counties have been completely locked off at their stocking tops by local government change, but they never changed.

So now we have the British county flags flying every July outside the Middlesex Guildhall, which you will know as the UK supreme court because that's what it became. But the Middlesex Guildhall was where Middlesex county council met. So that was our headquarters, Westminster.

So Westminster was known as the administrative capital of Middlesex. And of course historically Westminster is still in Middlesex, north of the Thames.

You know what? I didn't know that. For Russell, the campaign has never just been about names on signs or headings on letterheads. It's about what a community loses when it loses its sense of where it belongs.

Staines, for instance, has altered terrifically. I think one of the things that we lost in Staines, I mean that wonderful town hall that we have was never really put to terrifically good use.

It should have become a much more community based. But it's a lovely, wonderful old town hall.

And I think once you start taking communities out and you have civic centres and all the rest, you begin to lose that bond that people have with their high street, with those areas of themselves that go back to that ancestry or me, my grandmother used to bring me to Staines. So they lose that contact within themselves of where they were born, where they were brought up and where they belong.

And belonging is such an important part of anywhere, everything back to genealogy and ancestry of where we come from, where we belong, is very important.

I mean, one of the things that Shepperton has, which I think is fantastic, and over the past couple of years, I've certainly responded to Dik Gregory with his. The Shepperton Village Fair and of course, Middlesex Heritage, of which the patron is Lord Randall of Uxbridge and I am president of it now.

But Middlesex Heritage would always either be a silver sponsor or a bronze sponsor, because we knew that Shepperton Village Fair was part of the whole ethos of Middlesex Heritage, community. All of these places that belong together in one place, and that place is Middlesex equally.

I was talking to somebody yesterday to see how I can help St Nicholas Church, this very beautiful church that even Nicholas Pevsner, the great man when it comes to architecture, writing his brilliant, beautiful books on the architecture of Britain, and it's in the Middlesex volume. St. Nicholas's Church is a very important building within Middlesex. And we still have the Archdiocese of Middlesex. You see, there's the Archdeaconry.

I should say my ecclesiastical knowledge is not as good as my astrological or geographical knowledge, but we still have this, the Archdeaconry of Middlesex, which St Nicholas belongs to.

But when we start getting ridiculous situations that they've got to pay a huge VAT bill, what they don't realise government and politicians that enact these things, is by wanting £20,000 VAT from St Nicholas's Church, they're ripping the heart out of a community, because that money should be going back, not just into St. Nicholas's Church, but to other buildings or places that are important to that community. And so therefore, £20,000 is outrageous because what it ultimately does, it takes it away from where it belongs.

And that is the community and village of Shepperton and a beautiful building that knows more about Middlesex's history than I ever will. You've got glorious things happening in lower Sunbury. The beautiful walled garden, the tapestry.

These are all so important to us, not just as a county community, but very much so as a village community, which we belong to.

So at the end of the day, I guess it's about giving these places, these buildings, these county lines, the respect they deserve.

Respect is, you know, you've hit it on the head. It's all about respecting our history, where we've come from and where we're going.

And if we don't get that sorted out now, we will all become amoebas blobs.

All the councils will be the same, all the high streets will be the same, all the village centers will be the same and all the politicians will be the same. And that's what we need to sort out now, before everything becomes the same.

That was Russell Grant, author, broadcaster, Lord of the Manor of Ashford in Middlesex and the man behind the South Middlesex campaign if today's episode has made you think differently about where you live or where you're from, I'd say that's rather the point.

The election for West Surrey Unitary Authority is on the 7th of May, and whatever name that council eventually carries, the argument Russell has been making for nearly 40 years remains the same. The county Council can be abolished, the county cannot. You can find the South Middlesex campaign on Facebook and Instagram.

The links are in the show notes. If you've got a leaflet for your business with South Middlesex on it, Russell would genuinely love to hear from you.

If you've enjoyed this episode and want to support the Sheppertonian, you can subscribe at thesheppertonian.uk A subscription helps keep stories like this one coming and it's genuinely appreciated. Thanks again to our business club partners, the Ferry Coffee Shop, Meon Media and the Sound Boutique, and to Island Motors and LuvBiltong.

I'm Gareth. This has been The Sheppertonian. Until next time. I'll see you around.