What if that voice telling you “you’re not ready” is actually the clearest sign that you’re growing into your next level of leadership?

If you’ve ever questioned your readiness, felt like an imposter, or hesitated to step into bigger opportunities, you’re not alone—especially in high-pressure humanitarian and development roles where expectations are high and support is limited.

In this episode, I sit down with Birgit Hermann, a leadership coach, author, interim executive, and strategy partner, to explore how self-doubt shows up for leaders—and how to navigate it. Together, we reframe these moments of uncertainty as signals that you’re stretching beyond your comfort zone and stepping into meaningful growth.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

1. A powerful reframe that helps you see Imposter Syndrome as a sign of growth, not a weakness
2. A practical way to expand your comfort zone so you can take on bigger challenges with confidence
3. Simple, actionable tools to manage fear and self-doubt in high-stakes leadership moments

Press play now to learn how to turn self-doubt into a growth signal—and start leading with more courage and clarity today.

Resources Mentioned:

1. Check out Birgit Hermann
2. Get the book, "BOLDER: A Leadership Mindset and Framework Forged at the Edge: Inspire Change, Shift Culture, and Build Sustainable Impact—Without Burnout"

Watch on YouTube Here

What if the voice in your head saying, "You're not ready", is actually

proof that you're growing into the leader you're meant to become?

Hi, I'm Torrey and welcome to the Modern Humanitarian and

Development Leader podcast.

In today's episode, I'm joined by Birgit Hermann, a Leadership Coach, Ocean and

Climate Advocate, and now the author of the newly released book, BOLDER.

Birgit has spent years working across international development

and conservation, and her journey is anything but ordinary.

from crossing Africa by bike to running ultra marathons in the Sahara, but what

makes her work so powerful is how she translates those extreme conditions into

practical, everyday leadership insights.

So in this conversation, we dive into Imposter syndrome, growth and

what it really takes to lead into today's complex and uncertain world.

By the end of this episode, you're gonna walk away with a new way to

understand Imposter syndrome, not as something to eliminate, but as a signal

that you're stepping into growth.

A practical framework for expanding your growth zone so you can lead

with more confidence and courage and simple, actionable tools to

navigate fear, self-doubt, and stretch yourself without feeling overwhelmed.

If you've ever questioned whether you're ready for the next step in your

leadership, this conversation is for you.

Welcome Birgit, to the podcast.

So great to see you.

I feel like our paths have intertwined in many ways over the years, and it's just

I love to see that this is all culminated in this book that you've just published.

It's so exciting and I like to pick a particular theme to focus on.

And for this one, I chose Imposter Syndrome and the reason for that

partially was because you, yourself, when I reached out to you mentioned

that, you know, as you were writing this book, you had this impending feeling o f

Imposter syndrome, which we will get to.

But for those who don't know you, maybe you can briefly introduce

yourself and share what led you to write this book, BOLDER.

Thank you.

Thank you, Torrey.

And likewise.

It is so great how over the years we have crossed paths so often, sometimes

in person, sometimes in, in digital way.

And very happy to be speaking to you today.

And it's really, it's early days for me.

This book has only launched less than two weeks ago.

So I'm all very excited about the various elements of how it can be

discussed and looked at and applied, which, 'cause there's really a book

that, that should help make things happen, not just think about things.

And for me, for my background, I'm, I'm a person who is helping purpose-driven

organizations and individual change-makers to make a bigger impact.

That sounds quite wide.

I've had, I'm working in the international development, marine conservation, climate

adaptation space and helping really a number of different actors in there.

The, the last three years were an amazing journey.

I've started working for myself with my own social impact leadership consultancy

and it's really helping me to either be in an interim executive role, a

strategy partner, leadership coach, and doing the area from, yeah the more

the partnering, sparring partner or leading workshops for professional

development or doing more like the mapping in resources and opportunities

that are out there for organizations.

And what I'm really passionate about is bold leadership for people and planet.

I have a, I'm a ocean advocate, I'm a climate advocate and

I've been leading organizations in that space for many years.

And, and for me, what really motivated me in those roles was

seeing other leaders step up.

And sometimes it's like the aspiring leaders, sometimes it's leaders who

were just given more opportunities or where I was in a opportunity in a way

to actually make that happen, enable the crowns to, to, for them to step up.

I've, I'm currently living in Timor Leste.

I've been here for the last 10 years, majority of the time in

and out, especially when you're having international careers, you

often go also to other places.

And that all of those various elements was really where that,

that brought me to writing BOLDER.

And I think the biggest, and we come, I assume, we come to that a bit later, is

also a lot of my endurance challenges.

I love pushing outside the comfort zone on quiet, extreme ways.

Some people would call it mad crazy.

And I've, s o I've done things like crossing the African continent by

mountain bike and running 250 kilometers through the Sahara with everything in

my back that I needed for the time.

And also more than the colder side with experience in Antarctica

and free diving under polar ice.

And, but there were so many learnings in there that I always brought back into

the workplace and used it to inspire and shift culture, and that's where I

thought, okay, it's l et's see how I can put it into a book in a framework.

And that's what we're, what the result was released two weeks ago.

Yeah, so wonderful!

And reading the book, it's so fun to read about these amazing endurance adventures

that you go on and how, you interweave, like you said, not only your learnings

into leadership, but also in terms of just like the health of the planet, like you

said and like your values are clearly, I think, come out throughout the book.

So, I'm curious because you know, this podcast, we really focus on what's

needed for modern day leaders and when you look at today's leadership

context, especially in humanitarian and development space, 'cause you have

a lot of experience in that area too.

What do you think modern leadership requires that it did

not 10 or 15 years ago even?

I know we wanna stay within an amount of time that's suitable for an

audience to listen as brief as possible.

I feel actually it is probably not that it is necessarily changed what is required,

it's more that actually it was always required that there is some elements

in a modern humanitarian leadership that just wasn't really prioritized

because the old system somehow worked.

And I was very fortunate to have had also students in leadership in more

corporate spaces, in government, in different countries and seeing how, what

I think that it is, the problem that we are facing in the development sector is

normally there is not enough funding.

And then thinking about the actual, the people development of the

organization, is always something that comes at the very last thought

because the funding is just not there.

So professional development is very difficult to put into a proposal when

you have an external funding source, and that's why it's a little being

put u nder the carpet in a sense, like it's just not at the foresight.

And that has just this ripple effect that the people who are currently in

leadership positions have never had the experience of really seeing how leadership

can actually be done differently.

And it's often a handed down without ever having had professional

courses or coach or even a mentor.

Those concepts are much more common in the corporate world and often associated

more to the executive top leadership.

Even there, 'cause even there, 'cause it's an expensive undertaking.

But I found in a humanitarian space there is just no appreciation of what

difference it actually could make by changing the mindset and the perspective

of the people leading the change.

And if you're having a inspiring leadership style, it actually has

a way of enabling so many more people to help with the change.

So it's actually an amplifier rather than a limitation.

I think that's more where we are coming as resources become more and

more scarce as the international funding scene is shifting even more.

I think that's where more the urgency comes from, of shaking the system

and thinking, okay, what, what is required so that the current people

in there are leading in the best way that it's amplified, that it's

sustainable, that also once a project also is done, that it still continues.

But also actually to give the individuals an opportunity to maybe

work in the different sectors later on.

As international humanitarian sector is becoming smaller and smaller, it's quite

good to have versatile skills that can be used in a wider change-making space.

Yeah.

No, all great points.

And yeah, I remember even in 2016 when I started my other podcast, which

you've been on that was because I didn't see any leadership training going on.

I didn't see anything being done in a leadership space.

And so I feel like it's come quite a ways.

But a lot of, like what you said, there's still a ways to go and

there's a very slow realization.

And even though it's interesting you mentioned corporate because I feel like

also corporate is of, has now maybe we're going backwards, but I feel like for a

while corporate was also evolving in terms of what it means, "Let's step away from

management and more towards leadership",

which are different things.

But, anyways, all that to say, when you were writing this book one of the things

that you shared with me is that, you know, a lot of the book is about being

BOLDER and growth and being uncomfortable, being okay with being uncomfortable.

As part of that, and you introduced what you call the Growth Zone.

So can you just walk us through that and how you first developed that idea?

So I can't take the credit for this Growth Zone framework.

There's actually a lot of other people have spoken about this themselves.

But for me it was just the, so what I realized was probably the biggest step

outside my comfort zone was about 11 years ago when I was in a very permanent role

in, in government where everyone around me was celebrating 15, 20 year anniversaries.

And I was in there for about six years.

And I made a decision that I'm very happy living.

Sorry, where was this?

What country?

It was in New Zealand.

International Relations, Space.

Okay.

But I always had this feeling like there should be a bit more to my life.

I was always too curious to, I wanted to experience other areas as well.

And so I made this decision that I wanted I, for various reasons,

I came across this article with this group of cyclists crossing the

entire African continent by bicycle.

And I said that I read that and I knew that's it.

I wanna do that.

To cut the story short, but that was literally where I made the decision

that I'm packing up everything, I sell half, put the other things in storage,

resign from my permanent role and go and cycle the African continent.

And from that moment, I was being at the finish line four months later

where I crossed 12,000 kilometers.

I had been a cyclist before on a, like a weekend mountain bike warrior.

Yeah.

15 kilometers in the forest was a long day for me, and then there

it was 120 kilometers per day.

Wow.

So a complete different, but it's, it just showed me how if you put your

mind to something you, you can actually achieve things that are completely

outside your comfort zone and something you thought was borderline impossible.

But the biggest learning was also that once that was achieved, my comfort

zone was just a very different one.

It expanded and that was something that in subsequent years, I always

learned how it's, you have your comfort zone and you are thinking that's

kind of the limit of what you can do.

And then you're expanding it.

You're doing something a bit bigger, a bit riskier, something a little

outside that space, and suddenly this is the new norm, the new normality.

And that experience even that it was pushing my physical boundaries,

it helped me so much with the mindset that I had done for jobs.

Like in what happened after that was, for example, I then applied

for roles that they're much bigger than the ones I had before.

And I actually ended up having much bigger roles than this permanent

role that I had there in government that was well respected and like I

had a great reputation, but so it was already a great starting point.

But after that experience, I certainly felt like empowered to

just see what happens if I go for something a bit bigger and it worked.

It totally worked.

Wow.

It didn't backfire in a negative sense.

And I think this is where, yeah, with more repetitions I really realized

how this is, there is something, it's not just comfort zone and curl zone.

There is actually zones in between.

So you have theo zone.

Which is very normal 'cause you're a bit in this, oh God, am I really ready?

No, I'm not ready.

Should I do this?

No, I don't wanna do this.

Oh, then you kind of make it a little decision to go this way and then

you're hesitant to almost go back.

And so this is the fear zone.

And once you're past that fear zone, you're in that learning space where a

few things are already feeling quite comfortable because you have already

tried it maybe in a different space, and then there's like small failures, small

setbacks, and eventually that's when you actually properly growing and the

growth is really the comfort zone itself.

That, that is growing.

That's the expanded one.

So you as a person grow, but actually the mindset growth and as long as

you're constantly training to do things outside your comfort zone, you

actually maintain that growth zone.

It has an, if you don't do it, it can get a bit smaller again.

But interesting.

Like a muscle fresh.

Yeah.

And trying things that you haven't done before.

It's a very, it's a mindset that he helps you in all areas of life and

work and in the humanitarian space.

Yeah that's interesting.

And it's normalizing that it's there, there's a fear there,

there is a discomfort there.

It's part of growth.

It's not something that you should be trying to push away because it's

that's just part of the process.

And at what point, like where in this growth zone, is there Imposter

syndrome and how did that come up for you as you were writing this book?

And again, like writing this book was for me a first,

I've never written a book before.

And because this book is,

It's a pretty big deal, yeah.

Leadership kind of business book.

But because I'm sharing so much of my own experiences, of our own stories,

it was, it felt quite scary actually being so vulnerable and showing so

much of me and putting it together in a context of drawing lessons from

endurance challenges and being in nature.

A few years ago, I was separated from work life.

Like I was now consciously actually trying to put this all together and

not just trying, actually actively putting it together and every now

and then, that was really where I found myself kind of writing about

Imposter syndrome and I did about 30 interviews with purpose-driven leaders

and change makers in a wider sense.

And the Imposter syndrome came up so often.

So I was Wow.

Kind of reflecting on that, on writing on that, and putting it

together with my own thoughts.

And in some moments I really, I have to say I felt a bit like, I dunno, I was

like, is this really the right thing?

Am I just limiting now my career opportunities for myself by actually

writing and bringing the endurance lessons into the humanitarian space?

It just, sometimes I was really like, what am I actually, who am I to?

To make a point that this is like something that belongs together.

And I found that really shocking.

Rewriting, editing

that chapter a

nd catching myself how actually some of those thoughts that I'm trying

to be like really practical in my leadership prompts and the reflections

that I'm offering as part of the book.

And then actually thinking like how am I applying them at the moment?

Like it's, and it is really, it's that moment of remembering that if those

thoughts creep up, it is because you are currently outside the comfort zone.

And you are only there because you are already, you are already

outside, that you are already somewhere in the fear learning zone.

You're not yet in the full growth zone, but if you were not trying to get

there, you wouldn't have those thoughts.

If you're in a comfortable comfort zone you don't have those imposter thoughts.

You're only getting them if you actually already on the trek to

the growth, the personal growth.

I see.

So it's like a sign that you are growing or that you're on track to grow and like,

when you notice that, like when you notice that you have these thoughts, what do you,

like, what are some of the things that you do that maybe others, I know you teach

this in the book, but like maybe you can talk a little bit about what someone can

do to kind of walk themselves through.

Getting out, maybe not getting out of Imposter syndrome,

but overcoming in some way.

Be more

comfortable with it.

On a quick fix, kind of, especially if you're like trying to get ready

for a situation where, I don't know, you're like you're talking to

someone or you have a big meeting and it's, it needs to be quite quick.

Then, what works for me is actually really taking a moment to appreciating

and naming that this is Imposter syndrome.

That it's not a reality, like actually being quite, 'cause sometimes when your

monkey mind just talks you into it and you're going, it's quite easy to lose

yourself in this black rabbit hole.

And it's a bit of a vicious cycle.

And the narrative is so powerful and you have it in your control.

What narrative you are having, like what is the story you're telling yourself?

So really naming it and really being quite clear, the only reason that you

are having those thoughts is because you are currently doing something that is

already the start of being extraordinary.

You're going out of your normal thing and actually really trying to be more

appreciative and proud of it rather than having this feeling of like, failure.

You are kind of like, Oh, you're not enough.

Trying to really massage and manipulate the way the words you're using to describe

this feeling and that sensation you have.

And on the other hand, it's a lot about your breathing actually.

'Cause with your breath, you are in control of your nervous system.

And if your nervous system is signaling to your brain and to the

outside world that you're in control, then i t has this double effect

that it actually happens like this.

So because breathing is automatic.

If you don't control it.

But we as humans, we have an opportunity to control it.

And if we're activating the parasympathetic nervous system,

which is the one where you are in a really considerate, calm space,

it's good for decision making.

It's good for long-term planning.

And that is a way where if you are breathing with your exhale

is longer than your inhale.

If you're trying to really concentrate of taking a full inhale using your diaphragm,

meaning like something, like some people describe it as belly breathing.

That is giving you much more yeah, i t's activating those positive,

parasympathetic, relaxed w ays.

The calm and being the rock in the storm rather than the opposite, would be like,

if you notice you're doing quite shallow breathing and not even using the full

lungs, h as a big effect because the shallow breathing is making you much

more hyper and it contributes to anxiety.

It's good in the jungle if a tiger is running after you, but it's not so good

in a day-to-day work situation where you want to be someone who's making a really

informed decisions and has a considerate approach rather than a quick automatic

reaction that is often impulsive and doesn't help with the imposter syndrome.

Yeah, that's really interesting how powerful the breath can be.

And what you're saying too, it's like something that you can

do really at any time, right?

Like you can just notice that, oh, I need to reset my breathing and, you

know, be more, more aware of that.

What are, you know, in, in terms of the, when you were interviewing

all these people about Impostor syndrome, what did you notice?

Were there any patterns that you noticed where it would come

up or how it would come up?

I think the pattern is more that, there's no one

safe from Imposter syndrome.

It's this, it's, it happens to anyone.

And which I guess is a good thing because that means like the higher up, like the

more you and I in the senior leadership roles, executive leadership roles,

you're just facing different challenges that suddenly put you into that spot.

So that might more the interesting one.

Unless you, you just resigned to a certain routine and never do something different.

If that, I mean, in that space you will not have Imposter syndrome, but

at the moment you are actually trying to do something a bit different,

new, maybe bigger in a different context in a different country.

You are doing a project in a new community or so.

I mean, that is where, yeah, there are good chances that you're actually facing

a high level of anxiety and suddenly those feelings of doubt, self-doubt

and perceived loss of confidence.

Yeah.

I see.

Is there one particular person you can think of that had a story you

could share from the book of someone who experienced apart from yourself.

I don't want to like single out one specific but like working

with so many, it's more like actually more in an applied working setting.

What I would say to generalize a little bit, it definitely is more common amongst

female leaders to have Imposter syndrome.

Like it's much more common to,

yeah, maybe it's more actually that everyone has that voice of self doubt.

But in my experiences that it shows and manifests itself more strongly

with a lot of female leaders.

Interesting.

And it's likely also called due to not having too many role models who

are actually showing the opposite.

So like being much more often actually in this pioneering,

being the first kind of situation.

And for me, being a woman myself, I think I'm also getting more approached, like

with female team members or young female leaders, like approaching me for advice.

Yeah, I think I'm ticking the box that I have gone through this journey myself.

So that's definitely, I would say, it's much more prominent amongst female

representatives to be not sure how to deal with those voices that are creeping up.

I see.

Wow.

And that's really interesting, but not too surprising.

And what do you normally tell them when they come to you with these thoughts?

Like in the book, I have the one thing is about being really

clear of what you're standing for.

So it's about being clear about your values, being clear about your

purpose and the vision that you have for yourself so that it's so that if

there's some criticism and because I mean, sometimes it, of course you have

an Imposter syndrome, you do something.

And the feedback is in a way that it actually supports your, so it's not

at always that when you go outside your comfort zone and you're doing

something that the feedback is actually helping and encouraging.

Of course the reality is that it can actually be that there is people

in the room who kind of steer the those negative voices even more.

But that's the moment you're really clear on what you're standing for

and what your bigger vision is and why you're doing certain things.

It's much, much easier to make the feedback less personal.

And anything that doesn't work or so, like being, it's still clear you're actually,

you still did one small step towards the bigger thing that you want to do.

Achieve, drive whatever it is that you're doing.

And the other part is actually really that small step.

Like instead of thinking of, in a ultra marathon way, describing it,

like when I ran the 200, 250 kilometers through the Sahara, it's not that you

stand on the start line and think, oh, I'm running 250 kilometers.

Because that is just so overwhelmingly big and it's so hot and we have

unusual heat wave, and it just this is not helpful even considering

that it's such a long distance.

But if you're breaking it down into those smaller stages and thinking,

okay, the first water checkpoint is at 15 kilometers and kind of celebrating

every five kilometers and maybe allowing yourself like, I don't know,

the food that you have, like little rations of, okay, at five kilometers

that's when I get this snack and this the next five kilometers I'm taking

a salt tablet and things like that.

And then having the first milestone where there's a water check and really being

kind of proud about this and then tuning in and thinking about the next phase.

And that's helps with Imposter syndrome so much instead of thinking about

this really big end result, being more holistic about the smaller one and being

quite practical what you need to do now in order to achieve the small goal.

And then celebrating.

That's so important for your mindset.

It's so important to celebrate instead of just rushing to the next.

Taking a moment to wow, actually I did something that I have never done before.

We are on track and we are going in the direction that we want to go, or I want

to go and then taking the next step.

I love that and I love how you related this to feedback as well

and how to kind of overcome maybe like difficult feedback that you've received.

I never really thought about it that way.

But yeah, totally agree.

Having a clear vision makes day-to-day decision making much easier and

feedback from what you say and and yeah, I love that also, like you're

right, the idea of celebrating is so important and so I think underrated

by so many leaders and acknowledging others too for their accomplishments.

Also very important that we celebrate together.

Yeah, wonderful.

Birgit, thank you so much for your time today.

Like this has been really great.

I know it's just a small piece of your book and your story but

this is why I want to encourage everyone to go and check it out.

Where can people find BOLDER and learn more about your work?

The easiest way is to go to my website, which is my name,

birgithermann.com, and there's the section about my book, and then you can like, link

through to what's the easiest way to get the book, depending on your geography.

And there's also some additional tools to download there to, yeah, with the

growth zone f ramework and other things.

So I would really encourage people to check that out and connect

with me either through, yeah, everything is on the website.

But yeah, find me on LinkedIn, find my email address and would be great to

connect with people who share the same ambition and passion to make a difference

for our planet and for our people.

And then together.

Such a great mission.

And I'll definitely, I'll include that link in the show notes

so people can find it there.

And so if there's one idea that you hope stays with leaders after this

conversation, what would that be?

I think it's really about every day trying to

get out of your comfort zone.

And that doesn't need and really in that one small step at a time mode.

So it can be something like, take a different way to work, have a cold

shower instead of a warm shower.

Invite someone for lunch that you wouldn't normally invite and

spend a lunch break together.

Just like small things.

Just do something a little bit different so that this is just the norm of doing

things differently and that t his muscle is being trained the whole time.

I love that.

So wonderful.

Thank you Birgit for your time and so great to see you again and I can't wait

to see how much, you know, I'm sure that this movement around your book will grow.

And yeah, it's very much in line with a lot of things I

also discuss on this podcast.

So I hope everyone goes to check it out and yeah, hope to see you again soon.

Thank you, it was my really great pleasure.

Thank you.

Thank you.