Calvin Eaton joins Chris Lindstrom on the Food About Town podcast to discuss his journey as the Gluten Free Chef and the second release of his first full-length cookbook, "Just Desserts." You can order the cookbook at theglutenfreechefblog.com.

They also explore the evolution of Calvin's brand, his passion for community engagement, and his transition from 540 West Main to focusing on new digital platforms for gluten-free living.

If you want to celebrate an amazing run Calvin and the whole 540 W Main team, they are hosting a final event on December 12th at The Yards. You can buy your tickets at 540westmain.org - see you there!

Mentions:

• calvineaton.com
• taurusavant.bandcamp.com

Mentioned in this episode:

Mind of Magnus

Check out Mind of Magnus at magnusapollo.com, and leave him factoids at 585-310-2473! https://mind-of-magnus.captivate.fm

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Joe Bean Roasters

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I'm Chris Lindstrom and this is the Food About Town podcast.

Rochester.

Well, why Rochester?

Chris Lindstrom was a hoot.

He was just so much fun.

He never stopped talking.

I mean it was great.

Here's a good idea.

Have a point.

It makes it so much more interesting for the listener and we don't need.

Any characters around to give the joint atmosphere.

Is that clear?

Because I'm a pro.

That's what pros do.

A professional.

Look it up in the book.

But now, yeah, I'm thinking I'm back.

And we are back with another episode of the Food About Town podcast.

Oh man, it's.

It's been a little while since I recorded.

I have some other ones planned I'm really excited about.

Want to tell everybody, everybody about my trip to Calgary.

We have a couple in the queue that I'm excited for you to hear.

One with my buddy Yoonji Yun from Seasons Noodle, Tim Cachette from Aveeno and you know, all the places over at the Mercantile in Maine.

But I'm here with a guest.

I'm super excited to have back.

Guest, why don't you introduce yourself?

Are you going to have me introduce myself?

Absolutely.

Well, hello listeners, it is Calvin Eaton here, the gluten free chef.

And I am back with Chris and Food About Town.

I am so happy that you're over Calvin.

It's been a while since.

A while here.

Yeah.

And we've got a lot to talk about.

I have so much to talk about.

So, I mean dates and everything.

Yeah.

So let's, you know, where do we start?

Let's start with food because I do want to do, I kind of want to talk about the, you know, 5:40 West Main journey and where you're at.

Yes.

With the whole thing.

But let's, let's talk about the book first and what you've been doing around food and drink.

Yes.

Because you know, last time you were over we were talking about Just Desserts.

Which was gluten free book even though it was out yet.

But it is, it's.

Oh my God.

It was 20, 23 December.

Yeah.

So Just Desserts is my first full length cookbook that I produced and wrote, produced, designed the whole shebang.

And I say that because I, I see you have your copy here.

When I look at the book and I had, I have it on my, my kitchen as well.

Just as a creator, I think when you're living in the moment of creating, it's really, sometimes you just don't think about like all the things that you're doing and then you have this final product.

And I just now can't believe that I like, you know, wrote and published this really.

I mean we say self publishing and I hope that that doesn't have the same sort of like DIY.

We will call stigma or like Persona that people.

Think, I think a lot less than it used to be.

Right.

But this is really a industry quality cookbook that I.

That was I envisioned for over, over a decade before I even started writing it.

And my journey with celiac disease and.

You know, chronic illness, which really started and what became the gluten free chef brand.

It sold out very fast.

It was like close to 500 co in like less than two weeks.

Which one?

I mean, congratulations.

Just that in alone.

Right.

You know, doing the work.

And it's something we talked about last time was how much like this wasn't.

You don't make a book like this on accident.

This is a lot of work and I know the kind of work you put into this because you have no chill when it comes to caring hard about the things you care about.

Well, I appreciate that.

Which is one of the things you and I have always gotten along with on is we care hard about the things we care about.

Yeah.

And you know, when I remember reading it for the first time and when I've had the pleasure of, you know, lending it to somebody, you're telling them some of the tricks in there.

They're like, oh, that makes so much sense now that I've tried it, that this works because you did the work to make something that was not just a high end technical cookbook, but, but one that is usable by people, which is one of the hardest things to do when you're making a cookie.

Yeah.

And that's really important for me.

I started my chefing education journey just learning on my own.

There was no sort of formal training in terms of the gluten free chef.

The gluten free part.

I did attend RIT and hospitality and all the things.

Food was a big part of my undergraduate experience.

But.

But this cookbook was really born from my own journey.

And so the educator in me wanted to make sure that as I was putting it together and thinking about the format and the detail, that it really was going to be user friendly regardless of whether somebody was, you know, new to baking, new to gluten free.

If you've been baking for years, but you're like, okay, I want to Learn gluten free.

It really, it does have that user friendliness.

And there's a step by step photo which even when I look at cookbooks now, it's just with my brother Adam about a week ago and there's very few cookbooks, I will say just to kind of continue to.

Breathe life into myself that actually give you a step by step photo for every direction in the recipe because it takes a lot of work.

And like, as I was saying, I, I honestly still can't believe that I did that.

And I don't know, you said I care hard, but it's almost like I don't even know that I would have the capacity to do that today.

Yeah.

Like literally with my iPhone.

Not even sure if the photos of the step by step was gonna render the, you know, in a way that felt professional and polished.

Right.

It did.

But you know, a, every single recipe has a full color photo that was really important.

And then there's a step by step photo for every each part of the direction.

And just now that I've gone through the process and this is really important for me to eschew a big publisher and really say what in the future when I'm publishing more cookbooks and books in general, what value do publishers provide?

I really want to know every part of the publishing process.

It's a lot of money for photography when you're talking about food and then just the time that it takes and the detail.

Most recipe cookbooks don't have a step by step visual for every part of a recipe just because of the time that it takes to do it.

And especially with a lot of people that might not be regular recipe cooks, they might not regularly read recipes or understand.

Understand context of when they say mix well.

Right.

What does that mean?

What does it look like?

What does it feel like?

And those are the things, especially when you're dealing with ingredients that don't.

That are different.

If you're used to using, you know, wheat flour, it acts differently.

And how do you know what it feels like when it's done?

If you've.

Right.

If you've baked your whole life and you're used to, oh, I don't do too much with this.

Well, you might need to do more with this to get it hydrated, to get it to work the right way.

That's why I always enjoyed that about what you did.

But I kind of want to take a step back to that.

Like when you sold out after two weeks of a 500 book run.

Yeah.

What was that feeling like at the time when you got that and you like, oh, I. I did the thing I was aiming to do.

It was really a whirlwind.

I have been.

I returned to the classroom.

It's been three years now at the Harley School.

You know, part of my background is teaching special education as well.

And so I was doing this in the middle of really back in the classroom at the Harley School.

And so it was just pure madness.

Just to say during that sort of.

I came here with your podcast.

I was doing shows at the library.

It was really important for me to connect with all the libraries locally to get my cookbook in circulation.

So Pittsford, different Rochester public branches, Webster Chili, et cetera.

I partnered with Petit Poutine who sadly is not with us anymore.

That's a whole other show.

We missed the poutine.

But they were amazing.

Partner.

My brownie cookie, which is in my.

Cookbook, shout out to Ronnie, you know.

Is, you know, amazing.

I love that they wound it up as best they could.

Yeah.

And you know, they had a beautiful run.

Such a good run.

Yeah.

I mean, again, just let's give them flours right for the run.

They were always so mindful and did gluten free so well.

And so they were partners and scratch bake shop, I mean, just to see how much gluten free cuisine and din has evolved in Rochester even from when I started and we connected back in 20, what, 13, something like that.

I had the bakery on Monroe which is now I think Rella.

There's a bakery now right across the street from their Marshall street bar.

Now we're in Strong Museum.

There is a new bakery.

It's not a gluten free bakery, but there's a new bakery across the street that recently opened.

So, you know, Rochester, there's no shortage of bakeries.

But in terms of food allergies, food sensitivities, we still, we've come a long way.

So Redfern does really well.

Selena's, they have always been very mindful.

There is a 110 grill which is I think a chain.

And I really try not to promote the chain experience as much with my brand.

But.

But you know, really beyond the cookbook right now I'm really in this sort of transition phase and we can dive a little bit into some more detail about that.

But really I've been doing the gluten free chef for just about 10 years, a little over 10 years now.

I had all of these events and engagements lined up, you know, in addition to my teaching schedule.

And that kind of derailed the whole year because it ended up becoming long Covid, which, when you.

When you.

If you've not had long Covid, you don't want it, but you don't know that.

You don't know what's going on.

When it's like the major symptoms of this have gone away, but I still feel this relentless fatigue and other symptoms that were beyond the normal fibromyalgia that I've been living with.

I was gonna say, like, as somebody who's already dealing with some autoimmune things and, you know, this obviously isn't a complete scientific thought.

Just makes me.

Makes me wonder what.

Because, you know, for all intents and purposes, even though they don't know the exact mechanism.

Right.

Like it sounds, you know, the consensus seems to be that long Covid is more of a autoimmune reaction to having it.

Like what they call, you know, the.

The extended Lyme disease.

Right.

And other.

Other viruses that act like that.

That your body has this continued immune reaction to it even though it is gone.

Right.

That your body continues.

Just makes me wonder if it.

You know, for people who already have autoimmune things, if it.

If they're more susceptible.

Yeah.

To that, say.

I know that just from my own research now, having lived with it.

Every COVID infection increases your chances of developing long Covid.

Children are getting it more right now than adults.

And so there's lots of studies happening with that.

So I share all that.

To say that, I mean, really, once sort of the whirlwind.

And it could have been too, just because I was really grinding and probably wasn't taking care of myself as well as I should have because I was so busy.

I don't know anything about that, Calvin.

The body says, no, you need to pause and slow down.

I mentally couldn't even tap into my writing work, my content creation, because my brain just could barely handle getting through each day.

So if you're listening and you didn't get a chance to get the cookbook, the first.

I've been doing a pre order campaign for that on my website, the glutenfreechef blog.com.

so that's really, that's been exciting.

And then I just have lots of plans.

I really, as you know, entrepreneur is my thing.

I am, I don't wanna say a detour, but I'm part of the journey right now is me working within the Harley School, which I love as well.

But really ultimately I am a social entrepreneur.

I really love working for myself.

And so.

My transition right now is really working to grow the gluten free chef brand and to continue to grow it into a really a global digital.

Lifestyle and wellness brand.

Starting to expand beyond celiac for folks and children who live with nut allergies.

Type 1 diabetes, which there is a genetic link.

Many people who, many children and folks who are diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, they also at some point do also have celiac disease, which is an interesting correlation there.

And so, you know, because I've been doing this for so long, I also know what it's like to really like sort of boots on the ground, grassroots, your passion and grow it into a business.

And so right now I've been doing a lot of just sort of envisioning and working with some coaches to say how do I take something that started very personal and I've been doing it as a sort of a second business.

I don't want to say more than a side hustle, but really take it to the next level where it can become my main part of my career.

I find it very interesting as somebody who has, you know, over the last 10 years had what, what my wife refers to as jobbies.

Yeah.

But to me, I never really considered them the side hustle.

As much as these are my passion projects, these are the things I care about a lot about, whether it be, you know, this podcast, doing what we're working on, frankly, while we're working on nominate, while we were doing, you know, when we launched the podcast network, you know, lunchador, having something to build that, you know, you can be proud of, that you feel like you're doing something that, you know, might not change everything, but you're trying your best to do something that might make a difference.

I've, you know, it's interesting you brought that up because I've thought about that.

Like I've never talked to anybody about all the things I just do and do and I find it interesting.

So what about, what about that whole process brought you to.

And we're Going to go back in the cookbook in a little bit, but I'm glad you brought that up.

Yeah.

What.

What was the impetus like to reach out to somebody about coaching and having somebody talk to you about that?

Where.

Where was.

Was that like, hey, I know I need help, or is it just getting a different perspective on an angle that you might not be seeing?

Well, I think a little bit of both.

I mean, I've been in the digital space for the last almost two decades, to be very honest.

And so I, again, when you're.

When you're living something and doing it and it's part of your life, I think the have getting long Covid really forced me to just sort of pause and be able to sort of almost step outside of you doing the thing as, like, almost another set of eyes and say, hey, I think I've really created.

I'm living this.

But this is also a digital brand, right?

And so there's so much conversation now about AI and tech apps as well.

And so it's like, I've built this online community.

I've been using Facebook.

You have enough people who have been supporting you and who have been connected with you.

Like, it was, I think, to go back to your question about how did it feel.

When my cookbook was released initially?

And then to almost have people who are like, oh, my God, I came from Buffalo just because I wanted your signature and to meet you.

I feel like I know you and not that I'm like, I mean, who am I, right?

It's not like I'm just like Bruno Mars or.

You know what I mean?

Like, I'm not like some.

But, but, but, but in a way, in a smaller way, right?

There are people who.

It is like, I've connected with you through your blog, through your website, and through your email newsletters.

And so I'm looking at this newsletter and, you know, when I worked with a business coach and I said, I have almost 5,000 people, he's like, who has 5,000 people who are close to it who haven't unsubscribed?

That says something.

And, you know, my Instagram is, you know, almost, you know, 5,500.

And so I think again, when you're living it, it's like you're not even looking at, like, how.

How much you've grown something.

When I started Instagram, I had 10 followers, you know what I mean?

And so to be able to write a cookbook and produce it and then even have 500 people order it, I.

Think in two weeks too.

And that's the thing that wasn't a long tail where, oh, you know, after two years, we finally sold the last of the 500.

That's two weeks.

Right.

And then there's still people who want it.

I think that so, so because we live in this sort of.

And I know that we're kind of like going off on tangents, but like, yeah, for sure, these things are all connected.

Where we live, in this world where everyone wants to be viral, Facebook people have 1 million followers.

And I think that for me, I just started to say, like, look at what you've done.

Look at the people who come, who've come out to support you, who bought this book sight unseen.

Right.

Because I did a pre order campaign.

And I just began to say, not only have you remembered when you wanted what you have, but also you are moving in the direction of what you initially wanted.

Right.

Was to be able to sustain your life with your passion and connect with people all over the world.

And so that's really.

It's like, I'm there, I'm doing it.

And I think that right now it's just a matter of making the right connections.

I've been, I'm actually doing a week from this week, from the time that we're recording, working, reached out to NexCorp.

Just like all of these venture folks, technology people, people who support startup businesses.

You're as in nominee.

And what you looking at that and saying, hey, actually I do have a tech platform.

How do I leverage that when I have people who support me in an audience in a micro level?

I mean, those are the components that when Facebook started, Zuckerberg and company didn't have that.

It started on a college campus and they had to sort of build the network.

I've already done that.

So that's like, that's the hardest part.

Well, and I think, I think what you brought up is something that, you know, gets brought up.

I'd say often, you know, just like every pop, psych pop, you know, business ebook.

There'S one that, that always rang to me as exactly what you're saying is like if you had a hundred thousand followers, but, you know, you still sold the same amount of books in two weeks, the thing that matters is the thousand people that actually do the action.

Yep.

I think I'm seeing that it's somewhat by the name of Kevin KELLY There was a thousand true fans.

It doesn't matter if you have 100 or 200 or 500.

If the thousand are the one that are doing the thing.

That's what matters.

That's what you can make a living on, is a thousand people who actually do the things that you're creating that support you in the way you need to be supported.

That's enough.

Yup.

So you don't need.

I'm just like honing in on the.

I love it is the idea and I think that's, it's a great thing to think about because you don't need to be.

You don't need to be for everybody for it to be valuable.

You don't need it need for it to be the best selling book in Rochester for it to be valuable.

Right.

You need it to be valuable for the people who are going to support you directly.

Which is why I was thrilled when I saw you were doing a second print run.

So what about now said, hey, I want to do a second print run.

What was it about doing that now?

Yeah, well, so many people had reached out and said, hey, because I worked with Hippocampal Bookstore initially and they were just an amazing partner and so many people just were not able to get it.

And then of course life had a different path or a different moment in that time.

So it's just sort of like going back to that people still email.

I have fol at Harley.

Harley has a pretty robust gluten free celiac community.

And so that's some of the impetus, you know, just making, trying to get into the hands of the people who are like, I still don't have my copy.

And after, when I initially published, I had a soft cover and a hardcover.

The hardcover was just such a more, much more beautiful experience in terms of a product.

And so no more soft cover.

It's hardcover only.

And so I'm sort of saying this is sort of not, not maybe seriously like this is it.

But I probably have learned enough through this process that if I were to do another run, I would want to work with a publisher now because getting into some of the business end of it, I've done this.

I've had so many connections with library system and like, how do you get your book into Barnes and Noble?

How do you get your book like on the New York Times bestseller list?

And still maybe that's changing, but the Way the industry has, the book industry, the publishing industry is still pretty gatekeep.

That's changing.

What the publishers provide is that infrastructure and network and the connections have already been made for 100 years plus.

Right.

That it's so hard to break into that.

Me, Calvin and Rochester.

You know what I mean?

Like, so in many ways that is probably the last major system that still.

And this might be good.

I don't know if it's good or bad.

I'm just sort of saying it.

That hasn't been democratized the way that music and TV and movies has.

I think it's starting to.

But right now those connections like to.

You can self publish and get on a New York Times bestseller list, but it's really, really hard because you have to get your book into those bookstores that are like connected to the infrastructure of that.

And like it's one of those weird things that.

Where I read an article about it recently.

Where they're saying like, well, yeah, they can't track national sales.

They're actually tracking specific bookstores or specific areas of bookstores.

So it's like it's always smaller than people think.

Right.

That makes a difference.

Also, just wanted to tell people, shout out to Hippocampo Children's books over on 638 South Ave.

Yes.

Make sure you go visit.

Beautiful little store too.

Great place to go visit.

If you have kids or you have friends who have kids and you want to buy from a local business owned by local people who are trying to bring in good books that are covering diverse topics for all of kids, go buy your books there.

It's a great way to support the community.

Just a plug.

Rochester has an amazing indie bookstore community.

It's changed so much too.

There's Hippocampal, there's Book Eater.

We have a new.

What is it?

The Siren in the Sea.

I saw that on South Avenue.

Down, down, further down.

So like everything else, everyone, every one of those booksellers and their, their location is a brand.

It has a different feel and vibe for what you.

What you want.

Hippocampo is not a cafe.

So that's really more of a traditional.

And also that they really.

They.

You can buy any book there, but they focus on children's books, whereas some of the others.

Book Eater has this amazing sort of like, let's slow down, let's get a cup of coffee, let's get a book and let's have a chat and what a great thing.

Which is amazing.

I wanted somebody who's, you know, not just creating books, but I'm, I'm sure you are a voracious.

Oh my God, I'm not reading enough.

I'm, I'm, I'm finishing Leslie Leslie Jones's memoir right now.

And I'm like, oh, hurry up.

I want to get to the next book.

Come on, Leslie, hurry up.

Give me the pages right into my brain.

Well, that's, that's awesome.

So is your, is your pre sale for the next run done or is that still going on?

It's still going on.

You can still get it.

I am kind of talking this week.

I will be making that order soon.

I wanted to make sure that people who have ordered for this second run get them before the Christmas season for sure.

So that's all happening now.

And I am working with just sort of other behind the scenes things, having lots of conversations with some web developers and designers to build out the glutenfreechef.com website.

Through the Mighty Network community because the plan is to sort of deplatform Facebook.

But as we know, Facebook is social media right now is.

It doesn't feel that they're, they're really tapping into or being mindful of the user like they were.

And that's by design.

And so I just really feel like with all of the, for lack of a better word, crap that we are all bombarded with on these platforms, I would rather curate my own that I completely own and can own the moderation.

I can own the actual content on it and not have it be used in nefarious ways.

So the goal is to sort of deplatform from the Facebook to my own owned community and then eventually have the Gluten free Chef app and sort of grow from there.

That's awesome.

So I think we're going to do just a reminder to go to the gluten theglutenfreechefblog.com to go see if the pre orders are still open.

So definitely do that.

So what I think we're going to do is take a break and we'll be back with the second half of our conversation with Calvin Eaton from the Gluten Free Chef.

And we're back with the second half of our talk with Calvin Eaton.

Theglutenfreechef blog.com, the gluten free Chef Calvin Eaton.

So we talked about the cookbook, but that is only A part of what Calvin Eaton does, has done and will continue to do.

So what I kind of want to dive into in the second half is, you know, I want to talk about what was to me when I, when I think about you, yes, I'm thinking about the Glenn Tree Chef, but I also think of you as a, you know, a community activist.

I think of you as, you know, the representative of Your Education Organization 540 West Maine, which you know, had a tremendous run.

And you and I have talked about what does it mean to you know, on a soft way, what does it mean to have a great run?

And we mentioned that about poutine.

And I'm going to say the same thing to you.

Wow.

540 West Main as a physical space and as a whole focused organization had a tremendous run.

So I just want to say one congratulations.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And I kind of want to dive into.

Can you tell me, let's just go back to the beginning briefly so people can get reminded a little bit.

What, what is slash?

Was 540 West Main as a concept?

Yeah.

I had moved to Nashville.

I started the Gluten Free Chef blog and, and another fibromyalgia blog down there.

And when I came back here, I really was unhappy about that because it wasn't what I wanted.

But again, life had a different, you know, different path for me.

So.

When I came back here I was doing just like meeting people, networking, really just trying to have a better attitude about my, my city and connect.

And so being positive is tough.

Yes, it was very tough.

I struggle with definitely better than the alternative.

And so through those connections it started to get to the point where I said I need a, I need a more consistent space.

And so this is pre co work, you know, pre commissary.

I really didn't want to invest in a another space because I was coming off of the short lived Gluten Free Chef bakery.

But that taught me that I really love, I'm a teacher, I'm an educator, I love connecting with people and networking.

I love serving people and showing love through, you know, acts of service, if you will.

And so when I connected with some really amazing people in the Susan B. Anthony neighborhood at 540 West Main, it became a situation where there was some mutual similar work happening.

There have that the building that we were in over the years has been different restaurants.

You could look that up.

There's been Seed Folk Farm with Lisa Barker and youth.

And so all of these things were things I was, you know, coming into.

None of this is new, but it's a new person.

And sort of.

I was able to take over the space and decided to just sort of brand it.

540 West Maine.

Because I wanted something that was different, not this.

I didn't want people to think that I was opening up another bakery for gluten free chef.

And so that was very important.

But then we were doing food and wellness and talking about plant based and all the things.

And so that really evolved.

We were doing for.

For the first couple of years, it was a very.

More like a grassroots, I would say a grassroots brain.

The brainery concept where people could take classes.

Yeah.

And then we just sort of evolved because of what was happening in the world, in the community where we started to have more social justice types of conversations and talking about gentrification and structural racism.

And, you know, my scholarship is learning and teaching about that.

And so that really is what I just.

It started to become bigger than myself.

And also people were wanting to work with me who said, hey, we need to talk about black feminism.

We need to talk about like, why is it so difficult to get childcare paid for in our city?

And so I said, well, this is what people want.

And I said, this was a place for that, connecting people from around a koi to the city who've never met, across class and race and gender and age.

And so that was really what it iterated into and evolved into.

And so you're talking about, when does something end?

How do you end it?

Especially when you are an entrepreneur.

I'm always trying to find what's the silver lining in a not so great situation.

Right.

You just sort of explode.

And people reaching out, consulting, working with schools, working with so many different organizations locally and beyond.

And when the pandemic happened, we were all sort of hunkered down.

We went digital.

Our work probably exploded again.

Four times.

Yeah.

And I really just was just, again, just going with the work, like, just like taking on all of these different projects and conversations and teaching people about anti racism and all the things.

Right where you.

You see the ground swell and then the crash.

I mean, did you personally know that you needed.

It was like this thing where, you know it's going to happen, but when and how does I think knowing is different from living.

Living through it?

Literally seeing contracts that we had a call or email and say, hey, we.

That's not a focus anymore.

So even before what we see right now, or, you know, just in this last six months, I knew that it wasn't gonna last in the same way.

But I just.

You can't know how it's gonna feel until you are living it.

And so, yeah, I mean, it was devastating.

I mean, quite.

I mean, of course it is.

And that's.

It's.

It's hard to.

It's hard to overstate.

When it's something you care so, so much about, that ending.

It is.

It's a loss.

Right.

It is a loss when it's something you put so much into.

And it's something I wanted to, you know, also ask because not only were you doing the work of doing it, meaning all the work, it was not like this is not like, oh, there's also a weight to it.

Right.

It's the work.

The weight of the work.

Yes.

But then the weight of the topic.

Yes.

Always having to read.

You say the things that you know to your core, but you have to say them.

Yeah.

And then answer the questions and then do that.

There's that second weight that's on there that can't have been.

You can't have been easy.

Yeah.

And it wasn't.

And I had lots of feelings of, like, failure because, you know, you, you, you see something that.

It's like I'm letting the community down.

Right.

Because this can't continue the way that it is.

Not just functionally or economically, but also just spiritually and holistically and the humanity around it.

And so I wasn't sure what it was gonna look like.

And I think that the universe provided me the necessary slowing down of my brain and my body even more just to have time to reflect and think and say this is how we want to close this chapter.

This is actually not a bad thing or a negative.

This is actually a celebration.

This is a legacy.

And so we actually haven't even had it yet.

But we're going to be having our final.

The 540 West Main Legacy Exhibition Dec. 12, which will be at the Yards.

Christina Kaiser over there at the public market, just to celebrate and just to sort of.

It'll be a visual.

We'll have media, we'll have photos of celebrating the work that we've done, which is just a continuation of so much amazing activism and advocacy that Rochester has really been at the heart of nationally and internationally.

And I just have been met and connected with so many people like yourself over the last year, several years.

And so I'm just really happy to have the framing be a positive and just also recognizing that.

I think where I'm at with now is that not everything that we do needs to last forever, but how do we celebrate and preserve and honor and acknowledge the work that we have done?

And I think that at the beginning of the year, when Petit Poutine announced something similar.

I think I remember the day that.

I think.

I can't remember if Ronnie.

She tried to like, email me or text me or call me before they made the announcement because we had gotten really close just as entrepreneurs and friends.

And I was devastated because it almost was like.

The reflection of what I was going through as well with 540 West Maine.

And I remember being at school and just bursting into tears.

This is not me exaggerating because I just.

The community that they created, not just the amazing food, but the community.

It's right around the corner from where I live.

And it was like my third place.

I mean, it really was.

I would go there on days that I felt like crap and just sit at the bar over Poutine and just feel like poured into.

Quite literally.

And so I know that we still have locations like that across the city.

Yeah.

But doesn't.

No.

And that's.

I think there's something to be said about that.

Right.

Where.

Even though there are other places that can become that.

Yeah.

For you.

When.

When there's one that has connected with you, it is a tangible loss.

I had that when the university location of Jobin closed.

Yeah.

That was my.

Be honest.

I don't.

I've never replaced it.

Right.

Because that place meant so much to me at the time.

You know, you will find other things that help.

That help you feel.

Feel better, that help you celebrate, that help you feel present.

There will be other places, but it doesn't mean there's not that it's still that little hole that's there because of that.

And I'm kind of wondering, so like when, when you got to, you know, you know, reckon with that, did that help you with your process?

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, it did.

I think that.

This whole journey, Both, you know, 540 West Main or whatever, whatever, my, I'll always be, you know, sort of entrepreneur and innovator in terms of business.

But I think it really taught me like what a brand is.

And it's not just a place, but it's actually like, how do you make people feel?

And so having experiencing the loss of Petite poutine and having so many other people share the same thing, but then reflect on what people were telling me about my brand about 540West Main or about me.

Like all of these are extensions of me.

Really helped me to pour into myself as a creator as opposed to looking at it of like, well, man, I haven't done this or I haven't done that.

But to really say, no, look at what you have not just like dreamed but manifested and really like pour into yourself.

It just helped me shift how I think about the trajectory of my business and my work and try to take time to not just live it and do it, but feel it as well the way that other people are.

Because as I say, like I'm not, I'm still here and I want to be here and I hope that I continue to be here.

I turn 40 in a, in a, in just a month or two months.

Welcome.

Right.

And so it's like there's lots of life left to live.

And because one chapter is ending doesn't mean that the work that I do is ending.

It's just gonna look a little bit different and be.

Sort of propagated in different ways.

But it's still the same values and same mission of making.

Food, making conversation, making topics accessible for people.

That's really what it's always been about for me, bringing people together.

And so I'm just really excited now to be able to focus on doing that in digital spaces, but also continuing to have these very special in person events as well.

Because people really, I mean, there couldn't be a better time to be talking about this than now in the digital space and then in these sort of like curated in person experiences as well.

Because people need it and we need it to be positive.

Yeah.

And I'm so one if I can make it.

I think my schedule is Open.

I would love to be there and help you document the night.

Oh, we would love that.

I would love to set up.

We can set up a whole live recording where people can.

Can come up.

Okay.

And talk about.

We did that with Explore Rochester, their ten year retrospective.

Yeah, I know I'm throwing this on while we're.

Oh, my God, I love it.

But I would love to help you with that and have people come up and tell what they felt about being a part of it or how it touched them, because that's when I.

When I think about it, that's what I think about is, hey, the work mattered.

Right.

The work mattered because it was.

It was important.

And what I'm kind of wondering is, you know, as you're, you know, this avenue that's Was very visible.

Right.

And you as a visible person, as, you know, as an activist, do you still think of yourself as.

Do you still think of yourself as an active activist even though this is winding down?

I never.

I actually never did.

I just sort of accepted it because that's what people said.

Yeah.

I actually don't see myself as an activist.

How do you describe what you were doing?

Was I doing?

I don't just be myself.

No.

And I think that's a completely fair.

This is such a way, you know, the label.

But I sort of accept that that's a term or a word that encapsulates for folks.

Right.

We need to have.

We have to have vocabulary.

But I just really see myself as a forever student, a learner, a lifelong learner, and I am learning just along with everybody else that listened to me.

But I do recognize that.

You know.

I created something really special with the community, and so I would love for you to be a part of that.

So Dario Joseph and Chris Thompson, they will be the emcees on December 12th.

And so shout out to the father of refined tables.

Having all of you together would be amazing.

And just like, so apropos.

Dario is a father now.

Right.

You know, and it's.

It's the.

It's also finding, you know, fascinating because, like, we've known each other.

We're not like, around each other all the time for a decade.

Right, Absolutely.

And seeing the growth and what people have accomplished.

Yeah.

And what you dove into from when I first met you, which was purely gluten free.

Yeah, yeah.

Was.

The reason I use the term.

And it's probably less.

Less apt, like you said, but I think that's something you and I have always gotten along with, is we're nerds about Things.

Right.

We want to dive in hard.

We want to learn.

And sometimes you have to tell people about it.

And that passion for truth, for being an expert is something I think a lot about right now.

Oh, my God.

We need.

It is what is.

You know, it's one of the, one of the things that hurts me most to my core as somebody who believes in expertise and believes in the people that do the work to know things.

Right.

To know things for real.

Yep.

And that's what I've always seen you as somebody both.

You've lived it, you've done the research, and, you know, you're a good communicator.

Yeah.

You are.

You've become yourself an expert in how to educate.

Not just educate, but how to communicate.

Yeah.

To others.

And when I see the devastation to expertise that is going on now, that's the thing that hurts me.

Me too.

Most.

It's.

Yeah, it's one of those, like, you know, I'm not, like, I'm not a woo woo person, but it's like, what is, what's the damage that's doing to everybody?

And not that I, not.

This is not like a, like, you know, shame.

Like, we all need our space.

We all need to continue on doing what we're doing.

But when you're thinking about, when you're thinking about expertise nowadays, especially with the attacks on the things you have focused on, that you became a visible expert in talking about equity in a real way.

And these aren't.

This isn't the acronym like, you can, you can use the acronym however you want.

Right.

Who gives a shit about the acronym?

It's the, the work of what is equity?

What is being inclusive and what is.

What is being diverse?

What are, what are these things that make our lives better?

Right.

That make our lives more interesting?

What is it like to see, to see the brutalization of expertise, especially in the context of what you spent years working on?

Well, I, I think that this could be its own series of, you know, which show.

Right.

Like, I mean, I want, if you ever want to do that, I would love.

I would love to do it.

I would love to.

I just put up an article.

It's in my, like, I have 300, like, articles on YouTube I want to read, but this is the Atlantic, which is just this week.

America is sliding toward illiteracy.

You know, that's devastating to me and wanting, you know, again, taking a step back and saying what.

What people to hear you say that you value and you, you know, trust my word.

The fact that I, That I do take a lot of time to.

To want to know and to actually, like, study.

And the fact, to your point, that.

That we're in a time where people are saying.

We don't care about the experts.

We just want to make things up.

And I have to think that conversations like this, shows like this, podcast networks like this, the npr, Evan Dawson and Megan Mack and wxxi.

I can't believe that we are.

Yes, there's AI.

There's all these algorithm.

But I just.

I can't continue to exist as a human if I felt that.

The experts were gonna be replaced or displaced or whatever.

I just don't think that that.

I mean, it's.

I think that it could happen, but I just don't think that it will.

Will happen.

I hope.

Yeah, I hope.

I'm bad with hope.

Yeah.

I. I'm bad with it.

I think the thing that has carried me has been.

Yeah.

Being, you know, knowing that I can't fix the world, but I can be good to the people.

Yeah.

That are in my life, that the extended community that you and I both have the luxury of having around us, the extended community of both supporters and listeners, but also the people who we choose to spend time with that are part of the network, that are part of the extended Rochester arts community, the people that support experts, that support, you know, people telling truths about their lived experience.

I think that's where I've tried to hang my hat on, is.

Even though I understand how bad everything is in the world, that I know that if I can do something better for the people around me today and help get their voices out there and maybe tell a decent story and have a good time while we're doing it.

That matters.

The people matter.

Right?

Absolutely.

It's not the acronyms.

It's not the thing.

The people.

If you get to know the people around you, it's hard not to care.

And Rochester has such a beautiful community of knowledge workers, of artists, of creators, of visionaries.

Right.

Jackie McGriff.

We talked about Shout out to Jack.

Absolutely.

You.

Right.

And, you know, folks that you've worked with, there's no shortage of bookstores.

Right.

So these things for me fill me and say that there is still a market for community, for knowledge, for expertise, for someone to take a photo of you, that actually we will still need photographers and we still need people to go to RIT to get their photography degree and communications and journalism.

Because, you know, I think.

What makes me continue.

You know, ten years ago, I thought, well, by the time I.

By the Time I get to the point where I'm ready to expand, who will.

There'll be so much information about gluten free, but contrary to that thought, people said, oh, my God, we follow you more now than ever.

Someone told me at my most last event back in June that they.

They left social media, like intentionally, but.

But missed the gluten free chef page, so reopened their Facebook just to follow pages.

Yeah.

And so that, to me, that is just a reinforcement that the algorithm hasn't taken over.

Yeah.

That it's people.

Right.

And it's, you know, they.

They also see your authenticity.

Yeah.

In what you do.

Because you're not.

You're not grifting on to a trend.

Right.

You are.

You're an authentic person who wants to give people something that they can.

That they can give something great to their family, to their.

To their friend who has celiac, to their friend who is just intolerant or to them or their kid.

Yeah.

And they can give them something great that is, they get to show them love through, you know, sharing a great recipe through baking something great for them.

Well, the great thing about it is that now that I've lived life and had time to reflect, the.

The brand is not.

I mean, it'll always be, you know, celiac, gluten free, but it's also talking about autoimmune, you know, food allergies at large.

Right.

And so there.

There is still so much that the community in terms of food sensitivity.

You know, I just was reading an article where I think it's Southwest.

Don't quote me on the airline, but, like, are adding pistachios and people are saying, hey, can we just not have nuts on planes?

And I'm just like, I just put a note in my long, inexhaustive list of things to look up, like what made US Airlines like one a half nuts.

Like, why there's so many things that we could have.

Like, why is it like, people must have their peanuts on.

I just don't understand that.

And I don't know if it's a marketing thing.

I don't know where that came from.

I'm gonna say, like, if I'm.

If I'm taking a guess, I'm gonna go ahead and say it was lobbying.

Lobbying, I'm sure.

Right.

The peanut.

It's the u.

It's the United States of America, Calvin.

It's.

It's like gluten free snack and just no nuts on planes.

Yeah.

But the point is, is that the.

The platform is growing beyond celiac disease.

I'm really excited.

Next year to.

And maybe you can help with this is to advertise or get advertise sponsors restaurants who are doing it the thing well you know and to create a certification.

So gluten free friendly certification for restaurants like Petite Poutine who's no longer, you know, in operation but like who are doing it really well.

There are like red fern.

I am obsessed with red fern the last several months and I probably order twice a week from them.

Gluten free and vegan.

This I.

And I'll say this just in terms of my own.

Just I don't know if I'm getting older.

A little bit of your journey too with plant based.

Yeah.

The last I would say probably six to eight weeks.

I've not really been eating a lot of meat just because my taste buds have changed and I'm happy to eat a lot of meals most meals now.

Especially when I'm cooking them without me.

Yeah.

And I've to be honest, I mean.

There'S always thinking about the ethics for me of course.

But to be very honest, it's not been like oh I have to be vegan right now for ethics.

It's.

It's just really been.

I've been.

I was buying meat and just not use eating it and I was like this is a waste.

Yeah.

And to be honest, like I've been waning a little bit.

I've been eating a little bit more.

Sure.

I'm eating a little bit more meat and it's, you know, I've never, I've never been the somebody who says being perfect is the only goal.

Yeah.

And I was pretty, pretty tight for a long time.

I remember you talked about it.

Yeah.

Like years at a time.

I was 99 plus percent and I have not been recently.

And I'm not saying I feel better.

I don't.

But you know that focus was.

Is challenging sometimes and there's something to be said for hey, we are.

I love that you're, that you're trying it out.

Hey, maybe it works for you.

Maybe, maybe you feel better.

Yeah.

Who knows?

Yeah.

Like.

And it's worth, it's worth the try and it's worth.

You know, when you're thinking about the ethics, when you're thinking about the other things, it is worth, it's worth the effort.

It's worth doing.

I agree.

Yeah.

And I, and I, and I say all that to say just that you know there are communities of people for whatever the reasons are, whether it be because you have a sensitivity or for Other reasons.

Right.

That you know, the Gluten Free Chef platform is about connecting people.

You don't have to be celiac, you don't have to be, you know, fibromyalgia.

You can be any of these things or none of them.

Right.

But it's really all about again, connecting people, having thoughtful conversation.

You know, not dealing with the bots and all of that.

Yeah.

That garbage that that is like become.

So integral to our social media experiences.

And so I'm really excited because of sort of now that 5:40 is being put to bed, you know, in a way to be really be able to have that brain space open to really grow the Gluten Free Chef brand.

That's awesome.

So yeah, if you have the opportunity, definitely go out on Friday, December 12th at the Yards at the Public Market, 6 to 9pm you can get the tickets at 540 westmain.org I'm definitely going to try to be there because that's a, you know, it's an exciting time to say thank you for people who have done all the work and not only you like all the other people who are in Rochester that contributed and were a part of what 540 West Main was so one again, congratulations.

Thank you.

I'm really happy for you.

Really proud of what you accomplished.

And.

Just to end off on a simple question.

Are you loving teaching?

Oh my God, I love it.

Absolutely.

Whether it be at Harley School or anywhere else.

I just love connecting and.

Lifelong learning.

For me that's what it's all about.

Yeah.

So once again, Calvin, can you put out any of the plugs that people need to know about where they can go to find all your stuff?

Yes.

So you can go to theglutenfreechef blog.com or calvineaton.com now to find and connect with me.

I love to talk with you whether you are wanting to connect about celiac or autoimmune or food allergies or you are wanting to connect about being in education, children, neurodivergence, etc.

That's awesome.

Kelvin, thank you so much for coming over.

Is a delight as always.

Definitely recommend people check out one of some of our other shows on the lunch at our podcast network.

Definitely want people to go vote on City newspapers.

Best of poll.

One of our shows, Bossy Roc is on for best podcast.

Anomaly is up for best film festival.

We also have people up for best photographer.

I think Richard Colon and Quadray are both up for best photographer.

So look through if you see anything tied to Lunchadore.

Throw your votes their way.

We really appreciate it.

I think Magnus is up for best artist again.

So you know, take a look through vote for the things you care about.

Yes, it's a popularity contest, but you know what?

When people end up voting for you, it does feel great and really recommend you go and do that.

Thank you so much for listening and we'll be back next time with more on the Food About Town podcast.

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