Welcome back to Lending Leadership: The Mortgage Pros your go-to guide for staying ahead in the rapidly evolving mortgage industry.

We just returned from GrowthCon, one of the most energizing and impactful events in the industry right now and in this episode, we wanted to unpack everything we learned and felt. The conversation at GrowthCon was electric, with keynote speakers, industry legends, and hundreds of driven originators all focused on how to thrive in today’s fast-changing mortgage landscape.

This isn’t just another post-conference recap. We dig deep into how AI is shaking up the game, what top producers are doing differently, and why building your personal brand is more crucial than ever. We also discuss the power of authenticity, niching down, and what it really means to work with people who energize you and fuel your growth.

There isn't a guest today, it's just the two of us, sharing our honest reactions, reflections, and action steps after an event that left us both inspired and challenged.

Key takeaways:

1. AI Is Rewriting the Rules of Engagement: We’ve officially moved past the era where SEO alone wins business. AI tools are now vetting and recommending experts to consumers, so building a strong, authentic online presence is no longer optional; it's make-or-break for credibility and growth. The modern originator must be findable, vettable, and visible where it counts most 00:00, 07:38.
2. The Industry’s Future Is Bright for Those Willing to Evolve: Despite industry chatter about consolidation and shrinking LO ranks, there’s huge optimism for growth among high performers. The future belongs to those who adapt quickly, sharpening their marketing, embracing new tools, and operating with a learning mindset 01:41, 05:04.
3. Personal Branding Is Everything: Being the “best” isn’t enough if nobody can find or verify you. We discuss why your personal brand is your most valuable asset built through consistent value, authentic content, and showing up as yourself (not what you think an LO “should” look like) 14:34, 19:08.
4. Find Your Niche and Lean Into It: You can’t be everything to everyone focus on what you’re great at, and let that define your niche. Whether it’s VA loans, helping first-time buyers in their 20s, or coaching clients through house hacking, specializing helps you stand out and attract your ideal clients for life 12:10, 13:09.
5. Authenticity Trumps All—Including Profit: Working with people you admire and who energize you isn’t just “nice” it’s a marker of real, lasting success. Don’t be afraid to cut loose toxic partners. Protect your vibe and your peace, and remember: when your business aligns with your values and strengths, growth (and referrals) follow naturally 23:03, 24:23.

We left GrowthCon feeling more bullish and more challenged—than ever. The industry is moving fast, but for those willing to put in the work, embrace new tools, and show up authentically, the future is tremendously bright.

Stay tuned, stay visible, and stay sharp.

Robert, Tom, and Dave

AI's changed that game. Chat Grok, Claude, pick one, right? They've changed the game because now you go and you say, hey, who's the best? You know, who should I talk to about a loan for a first time home buyer in Gainesville, Florida? And now it's not just giving you a list, it's actually saying, oh, based on all the stuff that I see out there, call this person. And now from a consumer standpoint, you're viewed and vetted as the industry expert and you get instant credibility. So it was interesting to hear that aspect of it and actually see some of the foundation and some of the tools and the tips to be able to build that process. Listen, we just got back from GrowthCon and the message from speaker after speaker was crystal clear. Our industry, the mortgage industry is changing fast. This wasn't our advice. There were conversations happening in the rooms, on the stages and behind the scenes with some of the biggest voices in the industry.

Today, Tom and I are going to unpack the biggest takeaways and what they really mean. Now the next episode of Lending leadership with the mortgage pros. Hey, Tom, how are you today, bud?

What's going on man? Yeah, what a great event. You know, total credit to Amir and the entire team that he has there with go coaching. They put on one of the, the better, the better sales conferences that I've been to in some time.

Yeah, man, it was, it was just really refreshing. They, they packed the room high energy, the vibe was awesome. You know, the, the ability to just connect and, and build relationships was, was second to none. And the overall mood was something that was different that I haven't felt in the last few years. Right. It wasn't, it wasn't fear, it wasn't doom and gloom. There was, there was some optimism, there was excitement about where the industry's going. It was, it was really, really cool.

Yeah, nobody there thought they had it figured out neither. But you know, you spoke about the energy and I think, you know, the success of a conference is so much based on the energy you create in the room there. It's hard to do. Especially like they had long days. You know, that conference went from like 9 until like 6:30 and that, you know, 7 o' clock one night, that's really hard to do and keep people engaged. But you have to have great content, great speakers, great energy and accountability. You know, everybody came there to learn. That's, that's what I really liked.

You know, everybody realizes we're in a phase. I think that you need to learn and and was committed to that. I took a lot. So it's a great event. I think, you know, we look at, we could get into to all the great speakers. You know, Amir kicked it off and Eddie Maloof to Damon West, Todd Herman, Ben Hardy, Chris Voss. I mean we could talk about each of them. I think, you know, in the, in the beginning, I think Amir did a really great job of kind of setting the tone of what the conference was going to be about.

And why I got really excited in the beginning is it's a lot of things that we talk about and we believe in and kind of a lot of similar themes that we had, you know, at our, at our sales rally. You know, not as big of a scale there, but a lot of similar, the speakers were tied and united to some similar themes that were here. You know, sharpening your skills, you know, marketing differently, you know, brand creation, separation. You know, those things were, were really, you know, at the core of what, what a lot of AI core of what focus was. Was on.

Yeah, I, I agreed. I mean the, just the way that it was woven together and how it was all interconnected in some sense on the business and where it's going and what you need to do to really evolve and level up. And that, that was really kind of a constant theme that I saw through right throughout. Right. Was the level up, level up, become the modern originator. And that's, that's a really constant theme of Go Coaching, which is founded by Amir Saed. Great job putting this together. Growth Con is, is a live event that they do twice a year.

For anyone out there who may not be aware, it's a live event, content packed, lot of takeaways and it's open to anyone. Right. Seats are limited like this sold out really fast. Um, but the next one's going to be around the corner, so keep an eye out for it. And like if you were serious about evolving and taking your mortgage business to the next level, I think it, it would do you well. It would behoove you to have a button one of those seats. So, you know, one of the other things you talk about, kind of the overarching themes. One of my biggest takeaways just in terms of like kind of the mood in, in the mindset of the future is that everybody's really bullish on our industry still.

Right. Like it, it wasn't the doom and gloom. The future is bright for mortgage and there's still massive opportunity for the right loan officers and the right companies who do things the right way. You know, One of the things that they touched on that you and I have talked about and I do believe is we're gonna. I think we're gonna continue to see kind of consolidation in the mortgage world. Right. We're gonna see a shrinking yellow population, but those los are going to do a lot more business.

Yeah. There's a trending shrinking lo population. At the same time, forecast of. Of increased business over the next three years. So it's definitely geared up. And look, man, you can see it, right? Someone asked me that in the airport, asked me what I did for a living, sitting next to a guy, and he's like, what's. What's the business like now? And. And he was in the commodities business.

And. And. And I was like, honestly, man, the. The top people are doing just fine. The bottom people are really having a struggle staying in a business right now. And that's the truth. You know, the. You know that.

That 8020 rule is, is. Has expanded even. Even, even more. And so the opportunity is there. But if you don't create some change and start recognizing that, you know, AI has changed, human behaviors change. Consumer buying behaviors changed. The tools and resources available to them has changed. The tools and resources available to us has changed.

You know, stop thinking, oh, my. People won't respond to a robot texting them. They will. They do. And embrace this change, I think, is the message that I took really well from the beginning, which I think did a good job of setting the tone of everybody's mindset to be in a learning mindset.

Yeah. I love the way how they built the foundation. Right. It really was a message of hope. And this is a business that's going to continue to grow and expand, and there's a ton of opportunity in it, but you have to evolve and level up to meet the buyers where they are. Because the reality that we're realizing, right. And this kind of. We.

We knew this was the case, but it really opened my eyes even more. Buyers are changing faster than the loan officers are changing. And everyone's thinking, AI, AI this, AI that. And they've got it all wrong. And they did. I think they did a really good job of framing that AI in the mortgage business isn't about making operations smoother. Like, that's. That's going to be a piece of it for sure.

But the win for an originator and leaning into AI and a lot of the tools and the things that are out there are going to be how do you build your brand? Because what we're seeing is that more and more Consumers start with AI and social media before they ever call you. And it's not about the SEO game anymore. Right. It's, it's about something they call geo, which I hadn't heard before. But like, how are you positioning yourself and, and having, doing it in such a manner where you're building your brand and you're going to be viewed as the expert in the industry. And I think the people who miss that and don't, don't do that. Well, this business is going to pass them by there. If you can't be found by the consumer, nothing else is going to matter.

Yeah. Your relevancy is diminishing, you know, and you've got to change the course of that, you know, immediately, you know, and as you talk about AI, you know, we did talk about, you know, both sales and operationally and I love that in the sales conference they mentioned this because I don't think I've ever been to a sales conference where they talked about it. We go to ownership and leadership executives conferences and big talk around the, the average cost of, to a manufacturer alone being 11,800. And I, I, a lot of originators have had to sit down and help them understand that number because they, they don't, it doesn't, they can't fathom it. And it's a real number and it's a real problem, you know, in, in a world of, of, of stiffer competition, you know, coming into play, especially for originators that are hunters and hunt down their own business. And then, you know, how do they, how do they, how are they not a commodity? How are, how are they creating separation with their customers and what are they doing to say, all right, maybe I'm not the Internet bank that you can go to, but here's what I've done to be really effectively competitive on the street because you have to pay attention to it. You have everything you're doing in your business, how an LL staffing. I mean, they talk about support.

Right. What are you doing to expand those capacity? Support, because that all contributes down to that 11,800. And originators need to get on board with understanding they play a role in that today.

Absolutely.

And, and understand that they're going to play a role in, in keeping themselves competitive by adopting the things that are there available that companies are working to get them to adopt.

Yeah, that's, that's really well said. It was just an overall refreshing take on something that honestly gets talked about a lot in our industry. But it's really stale and no one really has it figured out? Right? So I think that there was some really straightforward ideas and things that can be implemented. That is the beginning of what felt like a road map and like a strategic plan on really kind of figuring this out to be able to build your business. And more importantly, why it matters, right? Why being that, you know, industry expert and having yourself kind of on that stage matters more so now than ever. I thought it was really interesting that they did an example where, you know, I, I mentioned about the se, the SEO versus the geo. So you go to, everyone you know knows SEO. You go to Google and you want to rank on the first page, maybe the first links.

That's what gets clicked, right? You do AdWords, you pay for that. AIs changed that game. Chat Grock, Claude, pick one, right? They've changed the game because now you go and you say, hey, who's the best? You know, who should I talk to about a loan from a first time home buyer in Gainesville, Florida? And now it's not just giving you a list, it's actually saying, oh, based on all the stuff that I see out there, call this person. And now from a consumer standpoint, you're viewed and vetted as the industry expert and you get instant credibility. So it was interesting to hear that aspect of it and actually see some of the foundation and some of the tools and the tips to be able to build that process. We're not going to give it all away here, right? We don't want to steal a mere thunder, but it, it was just really a lot of takeaway.

I mean, you have to think about what's driving the customer today and how's the customer thinking and how are they shopping today and how are they using these, these tools. And you know, yeah, you mentioned vetting and verifying and, and I think that that that's the biggest thing. So like if somebody wants to vet and verify you, what do they find? You know, and I think every originator really needs to ask themselves that right now. You know, if, you know, if, if I were to Google, you find, go to a couple different things and someone asked me what did I come away that there are three things that you're good at. Are they evident? You know, and you know, and we talked, there was a lot of talk about having niches, you know, for example, so you know, if you're dealing with a veteran and then, you know, know, you, you, you're in a market that you promote a lot about veterans and VA loans and niches, you're the VA loan expert and you're the, the local celebrity on when it comes to VA loans. Like you just got vetted and verified, you know, and, and that's what the consumer is looking for. You know, if, if, if he Googles now he's working with you and you say you're the best at doing VA loans and he can't vet verify. But there's three people in the market that dominate talking about VA loans.

You're not the subject matter expert and you're probably by somebody else locally, you know, and, and, and that's how people need to think, you know, and you can't be everything to everybody. Right. And it doesn't mean that you have to be right. I think what are some of the niches that you're, you're marketing to, you know, and that's not always a product. You know, if I was a young originator today, you know, when you look at the, you know, a niche, you know, you see a lot of youth in the business. I love it by the way. I love it. We need, we do, I love it.

You know, a lot of people in their 20s and upper 30s having great success. If I was in that age bracket, I would be focusing on the fact that the average home buyer has risen to 41 years old. And what can I do to change that and try to make that message so consistent. Teaching people at young ages how to buy homes, turn them into investments, multi unit properties, flipping homes. Like have, be a millionaire by the time you're, be a, you know, multimillionaire by the time you're 41. Don't think about buying your first time home. You know, I can walk you through that process.

You know, house hacking.

Yeah, that's a niche. So when that first time home buyer or that, that young 28 year old kid has got a little bit of money, it's like man, I want to get in buying houses. He sees your vibe, he sees what you're talking about. He's got his lifelong guy. You talk about being a lender for life. Like get him, get that person in that mindset at that age that was attracted to you because of your messaging. You've, you've got a, a borrower for life, you know, if you handle it right.

Yeah, I love that. And that, that was probably my biggest takeaway is, is just the, the having the visibility online, like you may be better, but if you're not visible, it doesn't matter. And having the content out there and the way that AI is going to read this stuff and, and you know, almost automatically vet you because of it. Um, and there's a lot of people out there that are scared to put the content out right. They, they have imposter syndrome. They, they're not comfortable in front of a camera, whatever it may be. If I really believe even more so now, having left this conference, like, if you want to succeed where this industry is going, you better get over that and start, start making content and putting it out there.

Yeah, it was another thing it was talked about. You know, I think he used like the sales athlete term. But what that means to me is athletes work hard at what they play.

You know, we talk about practice, practice.

So you talk about, I'm not comfortable doing video. I'm embarrassed to do video. Practice it, like, do it in front of your camera, do it in front of your kids, do it in front of your wife, do it in front of your co workers. Get a group of people that also say, I'm scared too. Let's do this together. Let's build each other up. You gotta practice. And you know, we speak about that a lot.

You know, you know, we talk, we say, be a student of the game today. I talk about that a lot. And I, I, I think, you know, when you look at it, you know, you're to be, create separation, you have to be different. I mean, you should be practicing and learning, you know, sell personalities, how to profile them. I mean, we had that speaker that told you how to read who someone was and how they thought and how to sell them by the look at their face. Brian Galky, he was amazing. This type of stuff matters today, you know, it, it really matters. And that's where I think salespeople, I actually love it that, that, that we're, that we're evolving to the businesses evolving.

That. Because I've actually always said how frustrated I thought it, it was that you could, some nobodies could make 150, $200,000 a year that never practiced, that never went to school, that never, you know, poured into what they do to try to be the best at it. And now you're starting to realize if I don't, I might, I might not survive.

Yeah, no, I, I love that the, you know, the, the scripting and the role playing fits right into that. And that's a, that's an aspect that I think people, they feel wonky doing it, so they don't do it right. It's something that we do a lot in coaching. And I know, I remember even back earlier in my career and some of the Sales training and coaching. I did. Like, that was a big part of it. Scripting, role playing, having, like, having people throw objections at you and, like, overcoming them. You know, doing the frog, building the rapport, going through the whole thing.

And I laugh because it's so basic, it's so fundamental, but we move away from it. I'm. I'm in the middle of watching Mad Men. I didn't watch it the first time around. I'm getting, like, I'm.

Oh, wow.

Totally immersed into it now. Phenomenal show, right? But one of the things, like, you got these guys that they pitch clients all the time, day in and day out, but before they're going to go pitch the client, there's a lot of cases where they're still walking through it and they're pitching to. To Don Draper, right? The main guy. They're pitching to him so he can critique it and tell him it sucks or it's great or whatever. And how many of our sales people are doing that with your peers in the office? Like, those are the reps that Tom's talking about when. And that Amir is talking about when they talk about the sales athlete. Get those reps in. So when you get on the phone with that client, when you get on.

In front of that realtor partner, you're practiced, you're rehearsed, you're ready to go, and it's not uncomfortable and you don't feel weird.

Lot to take away from that, man. Just the mindset of what it takes to be great right now is. Is different, you know? But again, you know, one of the biggest themes, something we talk about all the time, probably the biggest theme of our, you know, of our sales rally was that that personal brand, you know, And I think. I think people are. That. That have been paying attention enough,

are

starting to understand what that actually means now. You know, I think that it was like this cool turn to talk about, oh, everybody's branding, branding, and. And. And. And people thought like, oh, I've got to throw a couple videos up. I've got to make a couple of posts. I've got. You know, you really need a.

It's a marketing campaign. It's who you are, how you go to market, what you're known for, what you're great at, what your clients should think of you, what your realtors think of you. And how do you get that message and project it out there. People that need to hear it, that matter. That's what a brand is, right? When they look at you and they hear your name, what do they think of. That's what, that's what a brand is. And we do. We have a lot of control over that.

And, and, and, you know, social media isn't in. In many ways, you're always been your free billboard for it.

Yeah, I think, you know, I think a lot of people are. Are starting to get this, but I think a lot of people have gotten it wrong. And one of the interesting things with the. A lot of the speakers that we had talking about personal branding, and even at this conference we were just at. I think people look at it backwards and they look at it with, how am I going to grow my business? Like, how is it going to make me money? And that? Like, yes, that's where you want the end goal to be, but that's not what you're trying to do in the beginning. You're trying to build your brand so you can build a following in relationships, and then the business will follow. And we hear. We hear people in this space that are crushing it, and that's what they've said over and over again.

Get the content out there, build the following, build your image, build your Persona, and then the business will follow. I think back to the Social Network movie. I remember there was a scene, right, the story about Facebook where some of the guys were pressing, we got to start charging. We got to start charging. We need to start, you know, generating revenue off of it. And the other guy's like, no, not yet. Let it build. When the revenue comes.

Like, when it's time, the revenue will come. And then when they flip the switch, it was like a waterfall, right? It was a flood. Like that. That's. No guys in. In the. This is counterintuitive because. What does this mean? It means it's a long game.

It's going to take a while. It's not a. It's not a microwave. You're not getting instant gratification. You're not flipping a light switch here. Pick a cliche, right? You have to commit to it, build a plan, and you have to be consistent and steady with it over time.

I think it's a lot of not focus on what yesterday's originators was and what you thought originator was supposed to be or look like or act like. You know, when you think about a brand, every brand's not attractive to everyone. And yes, you want to be a chameleon of many sorts. But, you know, one of the things I like is, like, people can now express more who they are. You know, like, like, look, man, do you remember? Look Six years ago, if you walked into a room of people, you could be like, those guys are probably in the mortgage business. You know, they had Ferragamos, a jeans and a sports coat and a white. And a white collar shirt on. You know, and the way they talk.

So it was like, it was like, oh, I'm in the mortgage business. This is how people in the mortgage business are now. It's like, I'm in the mortgage business. This is my brand. This is who I am. I've got a backwards hat. I've got a T shirt. This.

This is my followers. These are the people that love me for who me is. And I feel like I go to work and I'm me every day. And that's the beautiful thing about building a brand. Like, don't try to. Don't try to make a brand. Like, don't say that. You know, you can always show people who you are.

I want to be more like this. Yes. But. But be more. More like what you was really what, what makes people like you. Everybody has people that like them, and there's millions of people out there. And you know, what, what do you, you know, who is it you want to attract? Right. Do you want to.

That's what's beautiful in this business. When your referral partners and your customers or the type of people that you strive to work with. This business is different. Everyone. I promise you that. That is when you. That's actually when you made it in this business, when you're having great success and the people that you want to work with are the people that you work to attract, and the people that refer you and think you're the best are the people that you worked really hard and really genuinely enjoy doing business with.

That.

That's. That's when you made it your career. The money. And the money is always good there.

Yep. And it's a magical thing, right, because you're. You're not dreading it. You're not like, you're dealing with people that you genuinely enjoy and appreciate. Yeah. I mean, just as you're building this brand, guys, you got to be authentic. You got. You got to be who you are.

If you try to be somebody different, then your imposter syndrome is going to be even, you know, even greater, and you're going to be exposed, and it's probably not going to work. That's a hard thing for a lot of people, though, Millsy, because there's a scarcity mentality that runs also. That's a whole nother subject. I'm not trying to get us off topic, but like, I was just talking to an originator yesterday and there's an agent that he's working with that he hates dealing with, but she sends him a fair number of referrals. And I'm like, well, you know, you have to. Only you can decide what your piece is worth, like where the line is, right? Do you have enough bit like, if you lost her business, how dramatically does it impact you? If you lost her business with the time that she takes, how much more business can you replace? I remember I had an agent way back in the day that I worked with that, you know, she was, she was good and I thought that she was my bread and butter. I ended up actually moving away from her having a conversation saying we weren't a good fit. And with the time that I was spending with her, I was able to pick up four other agents that did, you know, like 10x her business.

So be authentic out there, guys. Know, know what's your fit, know what's your vibe so you can attract your tribe.

That's also the, you know, where you're trying to go, right? It's a raise, your floor mentality that Ben Hardy talked about. And it's not just the people that you work with. It's the, you know, here in your team. It's the people that, that refer you business that are your referral partners. You know, the floor of who you work with and what you, what you cater to does impact you. Something that's interesting, man. We work. We've been fortunate to work with a lot of top producers.

So we've had that conversation many times, right. And usually eventually the real strong D personality producer mindset does move away from working with that person. I don't remember ever having the conversation about them being like, man, I really regretted that. Like, that was kind of a bad move that I made six years ago telling such and such to f off. And I never had that conversation. I've had a lot of the I want to get rid of them conversations.

I wish I would have done a sooner conversations.

I never had the. I never had the conversation that that was a bad move.

Yeah, I really messed that up. I shouldn't have moved away from that toxic person. And yeah, so listen, it doesn't have to be rude. You don't have to be nasty about it. You can just draw the line. Todd Herman at this conference talked about living life unapologetically. Like, you don't have to validate or explain your reasons or answers to anyone. Like, hey, we're not going to work together anymore.

It can be as simple as that. Like, literally, hey, we're not going to work together anymore. And you don't have to apologize for it. You don't have to validate it. So a lot of great takeaways from this conference. Man over. Overall, the biggest one, the biggest takeaway that I had is just the, the optimism and the confidence of our business is not going away. We're not going to be replaced by AI.

There's massive opportunity. There's 8.6 million households entering into the market over the next decade. Like, massive opportunities ahead of us. What was your biggest takeaway?

My biggest takeaway was that we're on the right track, thinking alike with, you know, the consistency of what they talked about and the actions and focuses that we have as an organization, what our top producers are focused on. However, we have a lot of work ahead of us.

We have a lot of work, dude,

it felt and a lot sharper to get, and I saw a lot of our opportunity to, to get better and better and that I'm excited about. We're fortunate to work with the type of people that make getting better fun. You know, surround yourself with, with, with, with a group of people that are really committed to sharpening their, their themselves up. Getting 1% better every day is, is really satisfying.

Yeah, I, I agree in one, in one sense it was awesome because it felt like our vision and like what we feel and think was really validated. Right. But then at the same time it's like, oh, crap, we've got a lot to do.

Stuff like that, we got to think a little deeper and a little, a little more strategic and. Yeah, but that, that's, that's the beauty of going to conferences. You should come away feeling challenged. You can only feel a little bit humbled at times. Yep. Feeling like I can do better, you know. So great, great conference. Again, much respect to mirror the Go team.

Yeah,

the way they're growing, you know, they're, they're not just a conference company, they're a coaching company that, you know, students pay on a monthly. The way they're growing, that's, that's probably not going to be an event that outside people could attend for long. They're probably getting to that size, you know, already passed it to where, you know, you've got to be a student to get to that type of stuff. So again, yeah, highly encourage people to check them out. You know, we, we have coaching in here. We, you know, I don't, I don't have a belief towards a one system. I think sometimes you find a calling towards an organization that's kind of speaking the language you're speaking. You know, that's what I felt when I first got into coaching.

You know, people shouldn't get into coaching just because they say they need coaching. They should say, I'm getting into coaching because I want to focus on this.

Yeah.

And this is who's going to help me get there.

No doubt. Yeah. Great event, great takeaways. You know, one thing that I said it already, right. We're not standing still. The the future is bright. Buyers are changing, technology's changing, expectations are changing, but there's still a ton of opportunity there for the loan officers that are willing to evolve. You have to stay visible.

You got to keep your skills sharp. And ultimately you've got to build real trust. Like that trumps everything. So thanks for tuning into this episode of Lending Leadership with the Mortgage Pros. Make sure you smash that like button, subscribe button. Leave us that five star review if you have any questions on anything we've talked about, any, any challenges, if you disagree, whatever, we'd love to mix it up with you. Hit us up and we'll kick it around. For Tom Mills, I'm Robert Filyaw.

Thanks for tuning in.

Thanks all.

Sam.