Shownotes
State of the Second hosts Kaylee and John sit down with Chris from Ballistic Dummy Lab, the company behind the human-form ballistic dummies that have become a fixture in firearms YouTube. Chris explains the origin: he and his wife came from a special effects makeup background in film, and about 15 years ago a show called Deadliest Warrior asked them to build a ballistic dummy. It stayed a side project until 2019, when he made it a separate corporation. His company has been featured on Forged in Fire, Deadliest Warrior, and Hollywood Weapons, and the products have shown up as props on fiction shows like NCIS, CSI, and Bones.
Chris gets into how the dummies are built. He walks through the two main testing mediums, the FBI formula at 10% concentration and the NATO formula at 20%, and why Ballistic Dummy Lab chose 20% for better shelf stability with the internals. He talks through casting resin bones to match tensile and break strength using data from a biomedical engineer he met on Deadliest Warrior, and the difference between the organic gel and a synthetic gel that has no shelf life. The conversation turns to Hollywood getting firearms wrong, the continuity errors his wife catches as an on-set effects artist, and the Alec Baldwin case, where Chris lays out where he sees negligence on the armorer and on Baldwin as both shooter and controlling producer. He praises trainers like Taryn and Gary Tours, who put actors through live fire so they respect the guns.
The back half covers the industry. The hosts and Chris dig into the COVID gun-buying surge and an estimated 10 to 20 million new gun owners, the current powder shortage tied to NATO countries buying up the chemical to make powder for ongoing wars, the Vista Outdoor sale to a Czech group, and companies like CZ buying MagTech to control their own ammunition supply. Chris also shares the pop-culture side, how influencer videos from creators like Grand Thumb and Kentucky Ballistics made the brand recognizable to bank tellers and the UPS driver, his move from California to Woodstock, Georgia, and new products including a Vortex Optics commissioned bear head for testing bear defense rounds and a line of ballistic rabbits with bones and bleeding organs.
Links
Questions this episode answers
What is a ballistic dummy and how did Ballistic Dummy Lab get started?
A ballistic dummy is a human-form test medium used to study ballistics, blunt force trauma, and cutting. Chris, who came from special effects makeup in film, was asked to build one for the show Deadliest Warrior about 15 years ago, ran it as a side project with his wife, and made Ballistic Dummy Lab a separate corporation in 2019.
What is the difference between the FBI 10% and NATO 20% ballistic gel formulas, and which does the company use?
The two are testing mediums at different gel concentrations, the FBI formula at 10% and the NATO formula at 20%. Ballistic Dummy Lab uses the 20% NATO formula because it gives better shelf stability for the internal components.
How does Ballistic Dummy Lab make the bones and organs inside its dummies?
Chris casts resin bones tuned to match real tensile and break strength, using data from a biomedical engineer he met on Deadliest Warrior. The dummies are built to a single uniform density rather than replicating the separate densities of skin, muscle, and bone.
What is the difference between the organic gel and the synthetic gel?
The organic gel is the traditional medium with a limited shelf life, while the synthetic gel has no shelf life. Both let you see the same results as long as you test consistently in the same medium.
Where does Chris think the negligence lies in the Alec Baldwin shooting case?
Chris places negligence on both the armorer and on Baldwin, who he sees as responsible as both the shooter and a controlling producer. His broader point is that anyone handling a firearm has to understand what is in their hands.
Why are firearms companies like CZ buying or building their own ammunition manufacturing?
Companies are moving to control their own ammunition supply, as when CZ bought MagTech to secure its own production. The conversation ties this to the Vista Outdoor sale to a Czech group and wider pressure on the ammunition supply chain.
What is causing the current ammunition powder shortage?
The shortage is tied to NATO countries buying up the chemical used to make powder for ongoing wars, which pulls that supply away from the commercial market.
What new products is Ballistic Dummy Lab releasing, and where can you find the company online?
Chris describes a bear head commissioned by Vortex Optics for testing bear-defense rounds and a line of ballistic rabbits with bones and bleeding organs. The company is online at ballisticdummylab.com.
Chapters
- 00:00 — Meet Chris from Ballistic Dummy Lab
- 00:14 — What a ballistic dummy is and the 2019 start
- 01:15 — Shows they've worked on and special effects roots
- 03:09 — FBI vs NATO gel formulas and why 20%
- 06:10 — Casting the bones and organs
- 08:50 — Testing rounds and what bullets really do
- 11:50 — Moving the company from California to Georgia
- 16:21 — Tanks, cannons, and the wildest tests
- 17:53 — The Alec Baldwin case and on-set responsibility
- 22:10 — Actors who respect guns and the trainers behind them
- 29:57 — The COVID gun-buying surge
- 33:00 — Powder shortage and the ammunition supply chain
- 43:33 — Pop-culture fame, the bear head, and the rabbits
- 55:58 — Where to find Ballistic Dummy Lab
About the guest
Chris is the founder of Ballistic Dummy Lab, which makes human-form ballistic dummies used to test ballistics, blunt force trauma, and cutting. He came from a special effects makeup background in the film industry, and roughly 15 years ago was asked on the show Deadliest Warrior to create a ballistic dummy. He ran it as a side project with his wife before making it a separate corporation in 2019. His company and products have been featured on Forged in Fire, Deadliest Warrior, and Hollywood Weapons, and used as props on shows including NCIS, CSI, and Bones. He grew up in California and moved the company to Woodstock, Georgia, just north of Atlanta. His wife is an on-set special effects artist.
Key quotes
"We are not building an exact replica of the human body because you have skin, muscle, bone, they're all different densities. We're building something with all the same density." — Chris
"As long as you use the same testing median, you're going to see the difference." — Chris
"What has been interesting to me from the kind of view of media coming out of about it, is how fast the narrative blamed the firearm and not the people in charge of the firearm." — Kaylee
"You have to understand what's in your hands or else, I mean, stuff happens." — Chris
"I love that there's so much joy in your company, like, because you make a product that's just fun." — Kaylee
Transcripts
Welcome to Gun Owners of America State of the second podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Kaylee.
Speaker B:And I'm John, and we are here with Chris from Ballistic Dummy Lab.
Speaker B:How are you today, my friend?
Speaker C:Good.
Speaker C:Thanks for having me out.
Speaker B:Well, thank you for being on.
Speaker B:So let's start off.
Speaker B:What is Ballistic Dummy Lab?
Speaker B:Give a little backstory on the company.
Speaker C:Okay, so Ballistic Dummy Lab is a surprise, surprise.
Speaker C:We make ballistic dummies.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:No, but we actually came from a special effects background in the film industry.
Speaker C:And about 15 years ago, on a show called Deadliest Warrior, we were asked to create a ballistic dummy.
Speaker C:And what is a ballistic dummy?
Speaker C:Just in case you don't know.
Speaker C:Basically, it's a human form dummy that has.
Speaker C:It can either have internals bones and organs in it or not.
Speaker C:And we use it for testing either ballistics.
Speaker C:Surprise, surprise.
Speaker C:Blunt force trauma.
Speaker C:Also cutting works well on them like swords and knives and whatnot.
Speaker C:So we were asked to develop them.
Speaker C:It was always kind of a side project for my wife and I.
Speaker C: And come: Speaker C:We called it Ballistic Dummy Lab, and we opened up as a.
Speaker C:As a corporation, and here we are.
Speaker B:So what shows have you worked on?
Speaker C:Television shows.
Speaker C:So we were featured in Forged in Fire, Deadliest Warrior, like the one I told you about.
Speaker C:Also we're on Hollywood Weapons.
Speaker C:It's a little bit of a smaller show, but a lot of people like that one.
Speaker C:And then our products have been on fiction shows like ncis, csi, Bones, just as props and whatnot.
Speaker B:So how do you get into that business?
Speaker C:Which part?
Speaker C:All of it.
Speaker B:What made you get into the ballistics business?
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:Just the gel part of it and all the above.
Speaker C:Well, when you're the.
Speaker C:My title in the film industry, they call us special effects makeup artists.
Speaker C:So if you.
Speaker C:If you want to be a werewolf, I could turn you into werewolf.
Speaker C:But also we like to just play around with all different types of materials and whatnot because we make props as well.
Speaker C:Like if you need a fake head that looks like you or a.
Speaker C:Or, you know, a severed arm or something.
Speaker C:So we're always playing with materials.
Speaker C:And gelatin was actually is one of the materials that we use a lot.
Speaker C:So I had a familiarity with it.
Speaker C:And you have a basic understanding of anatomy too.
Speaker C:Just from.
Speaker C:I'm by no means a doctor, but I understand where things are in the body and how they work.
Speaker C:So it kind of like works together.
Speaker C:It's kind of like form and function, you know, your artist.
Speaker C:So, you know, it looks Cool.
Speaker C:But also, you know, where to put it so you can create a prop.
Speaker C:So we actually, it was interesting moving from a prop that was supposed to perform a certain way on film to a prop that, hey, we don't know what it's going to do with a certain caliber bullet.
Speaker C:We don't know what it's going to do with a certain sword.
Speaker C:Let's see, you know, so it was just a testing median.
Speaker C:So transitioning over to that was, you know, kind of a no brainer.
Speaker B:So what makes it ballistically rated?
Speaker B:What goes into that?
Speaker C:Part of what we did when we first developed the first formula was in the ballistic industry.
Speaker C:There's tons of testing mediums depending on what country you're in and whatnot.
Speaker C:But two of the main ones are FBI formula and NATO formula.
Speaker C:And basically the big difference between those is concentration.
Speaker C:So you have 10% for FBI.
Speaker C:They, they believe that that's the best.
Speaker C:And then the NATO believes that 20% is the best for pure stability issues.
Speaker C:20% Is a lot, much, a lot, much more, it's much more shelf stable than 10%.
Speaker C:So we decided it would do a lot better with the internals in that and whatnot.
Speaker C:So we decided to go with the 20% for building the bodies.
Speaker C:You know, we designed it that way purely because it would work better.
Speaker C:There's all kinds of controversy out there as to what's the ultimate, you know, testing median and whatnot.
Speaker C:What it comes down to, what I tell people is as long as you use the same formula every time.
Speaker C:Let's say we're testing like a 9 millimeter, 45 millimeter, you know, know back to back.
Speaker C:And we want to see what the difference is.
Speaker C:As long as you use the same testing median, you're going to see the difference.
Speaker C:We are not building an exact replica of the human body because you have skin, muscle, bone, they're all different densities.
Speaker C:We're building something with all the same density.
Speaker C:Is that.
Speaker C:Am I nerding out too much?
Speaker B:No, you're fine.
Speaker B:I like it.
Speaker B:No, because we're.
Speaker B:Because everybody on the firearm side knows the FBI testing protocols.
Speaker B:A lot of them, if you're deep diving the ammo, they know the protocols of, you know, what is it, four layers of denim over the ballistic gel and it's gonna have X amount of penetration.
Speaker B:And you guys have this product that's more realistic to the, what would actually happen when these rounds hit it.
Speaker B:So a lot of people are like, well, what actually goes into this?
Speaker B:Because nerding out is what we do.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, obviously it's.
Speaker C:For us, it's a lot of fun, or else, you know, I probably wouldn't be doing what I do.
Speaker C:But I. I enjoy just, you know, we came up.
Speaker C:The current formula we have is a little bit of a tweak on the original formula, mostly to make it more stable.
Speaker C:We also have a synthetic formula that is.
Speaker C:It's not made out of organic materials, so it has no shelf life.
Speaker C:But they have very similar properties.
Speaker C:I mean, we can get into what the differences is between them.
Speaker C:I don't know how interested people are in that, but they're both around the 20% mark.
Speaker B:So what do you guys put.
Speaker B:So you guys are building these dummies?
Speaker B:They're very anatomically correct.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:So what do you use for the materials inside, like the bone and things like that?
Speaker C:Same thing with the bone and the organs.
Speaker C:Basically, what we did is we.
Speaker C:One of the guys on Deadliest Warriors, a biomedical engineer.
Speaker C:So I was able to pull some data from him.
Speaker C:And we went out and tested different resins on the industry for making the bones, because that's something I'm familiar with, is how to cast resin and whatnot.
Speaker C:And we came up with something that had the closest tensile strength and brake strength and whatnot.
Speaker C:Is it exact?
Speaker C:Well, it comes down to the same thing.
Speaker C:Like, you don't have the same bone density as me, and, you know, so everything's a little different.
Speaker C:It's just more of an average of what it would be.
Speaker C:So that's how we came up with those.
Speaker A:So you have a very interesting background in creation, because you're correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker A:More of an artist first.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, that's how I started.
Speaker C:I esthetically, you know, when you're building something for a film, you're more interested in how it looks and how it's going to perform a certain way than, you know, the science behind it.
Speaker C:It's kind of like a mad scientist.
Speaker C:You could just kind of throwing things together and see what sticks.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I think it's really cool because, you know, it's a very creative product.
Speaker A:Obviously, it's so creative that it's being the centerpieces of shows and is something that is becoming its kind of own, like pop culture symbol in the firearms industry.
Speaker A:I mean, we know from the political side that the narratives and the creation of facts is interesting of exactly what some calibers of bullets are rumored to be able to do.
Speaker A:So it's really cool that you have a product that shows the reality versus the Fiction of what comes out of some politicians mouths.
Speaker B:Well, just come out and say it.
Speaker B:A Naima will blow your lung clear out.
Speaker B:What do you mean?
Speaker B:I think you proved that one wrong real quickly.
Speaker C:I mean maybe in a squirrel or something.
Speaker C:That's something I was really interested in.
Speaker C:When we first started testing everything, I, I would actually had the pleasure of being five miles from turn tactical.
Speaker C:So he was super nice about always letting me come over and test things out and try different calibers and do some videos together.
Speaker C:I was very interested in.
Speaker C:We would put cardboard behind them to see like, you know, if you shot it with a nine and it went all the way through to see how far the car it would go through the cardboard.
Speaker C:But I was really interested in, you know, the different types of bullets and whether they would expand or not expand and some of the holes from, you know, bullet that you think would, you know, do some major damage.
Speaker C:There's little tiny holes.
Speaker C:Granted it still do some major damage inside you.
Speaker C:But it was interesting to watch.
Speaker C:You know, like in a movie you think somebody gets shot with something, they completely explode, but not necessarily the case, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So you're telling us that Hollywood doesn't always get the firearms, right?
Speaker C:Oh no, I think it's definitely what's going to look cool for the scene more than anything.
Speaker B:You know, you working in that industry and I being a gun nerd, there's probably movies, I go oh yeah, that's not how that works.
Speaker B:Or that's not the way that gun works or that this is fired 20 rounds and it's only 5 round cylinder out of a revolver.
Speaker B:Do you do the same thing for special effects things?
Speaker B:Do you go well that's not how that works.
Speaker B:That doesn't look right.
Speaker C:Yeah, unfortunately my wife is worse at it.
Speaker C:She's a, she's an onset special effects artist and we can't get through a movie without her saying that blood stain is 3 inches higher than it was in the last scene.
Speaker C:Or like, you know, saying that scar is, you know, less healed than it was in the last.
Speaker C:You know, she, she's terrible because she's huge on continuity when she's on set.
Speaker C:So you know, like when you get that in your brain and then you're watching the movie, you're like wait a minute, that's not right.
Speaker B:You mean like the firearm changing four times within one scene?
Speaker B:Oh, I was watching something the other day, I almost, I shut it off.
Speaker B:Like the gun change colors four times across four different scenes.
Speaker B:I'm like, this is the same.
Speaker B:You're you're portraying the same gun.
Speaker B:Who is your armorer?
Speaker B:Like, there's probably hundreds of us in the firearms industry who have been like, just hire us.
Speaker B:Just.
Speaker B:I will do it for free.
Speaker B:I will teach you the proper ways in doing this.
Speaker C:Yeah, some of them are terrible, man.
Speaker C:Well, I mean, even as a kid, you notice that stuff.
Speaker C:Like when you.
Speaker C:When we used to.
Speaker C:When Rambo first came out, you just.
Speaker B:Come on my favorite.
Speaker B:We were watching a show the other night and I called it out.
Speaker B:I was like, stop it.
Speaker B:You're ruining the show.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:They use an airsoft gun in one scene, and they did it from the front barrel portion.
Speaker B:I'm like, yeah, that's an airsoft gun.
Speaker B:I can tell right there.
Speaker B:She's like, shut up and enjoy the film.
Speaker B:It's fictional.
Speaker B:No, it's ruining my immersion.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, it's true.
Speaker C:At some point you, like, I tell.
Speaker C:I tell my wife the same thing because, you know, I do come from a theater background, so the whole idea of, you know, suspending the disbelief, you gotta have.
Speaker C:If you're going into an entertainment type thing to have fun, you gotta kind of turn the brain off a little bit.
Speaker C:But I get it.
Speaker C:If it's your world, it's hard to turn the brain off for it, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So Hollywood Films, was the company founded in California?
Speaker A:Is that where home base is?
Speaker C:Yeah, we.
Speaker C:I grew up in California.
Speaker C:I've lived in a few different states throughout the years, but over the summer, we decided to make the migration.
Speaker C:So now we're Southern.
Speaker C:We're.
Speaker C:We're just north of Atlanta.
Speaker C:So we're actually loving it.
Speaker C:See, loving got a little bit.
Speaker C:No, it's great.
Speaker C:The south definitely has a charm that, you know, California didn't.
Speaker C:But it's not just that.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's cost of living.
Speaker C:I think the kids are going to be able to have more freedom as they grow up, because they're not.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:Everything's so expensive in California.
Speaker C: t, you know, who can afford a: Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I think that'll be great.
Speaker C:Also, obviously, having constitutional carry and a few other.
Speaker C:The other day I went to the.
Speaker C:I went to Cabela's to buy some ammunition and I'm, you know, I got up to the casualties, sir, and I had my ID already for, you know, because I'm like, Got to write down all my info.
Speaker C:She's like, oh, honey, you're fine.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:So, yeah, it's pretty cool.
Speaker B:Welcome to Free America.
Speaker A:So where is the company manufactured?
Speaker C:Where do we manufacture the dummies in Woodstock, Georgia.
Speaker A:Oh, okay, cool.
Speaker A:So everything moved?
Speaker C:Oh, yeah, we.
Speaker C:We all move everything.
Speaker C:That was a big move.
Speaker C:We took up an entire 53 foot semi just for the company.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:So a lot of, you know, we see a lot of companies move out of New York, California, other states that are not friendly.
Speaker A:That's a big decision to not only uproot your whole life, but to uproot your company.
Speaker A:And you're leaving behind employees and all of the things.
Speaker A:How did that decision come about and what was kind of the biggest challenge in moving from California to Georgia?
Speaker C:The biggest immediate challenge was financial, honestly, because even though you're going somewhere where you're going to spend less money, it costs a lot of money to move.
Speaker C:And then, because, you know, moving my.
Speaker C:We have a family of four.
Speaker C:Moving a family of four plus an entire business.
Speaker C:You're gonna be doubling up on housing costs for a couple months because you got to overlap stuff, doubling up on shop costs.
Speaker C:So that was one of the bigger hurdles.
Speaker C:Deciding to move, honestly, has been kind of a 10 year in the work decision that my wife and I have been talking about it, talking about it, talking about it.
Speaker C:And we weren't really sure where we wanted to move.
Speaker C:There were a lot of options throughout the years.
Speaker C: y, she got a job down here in: Speaker C:Anyway, a couple years ago, she got a job down here and she loved it.
Speaker C:And I had driven through Atlanta when I was a kid, and I just drove through downtown and I wasn't a big fan of it, so I had never thought about Georgia, but I came out for work and really enjoyed, you know, seeing the outskirts and whatnot.
Speaker C:So I came home and I said, all right, you want to move to Georgia?
Speaker C:Let's.
Speaker C:Let's consider it.
Speaker C:So we made a plan and decided to finally get out, you know.
Speaker B:Well, Georgia's becoming a big area for the film industry to film it.
Speaker B:I mean, there's a lot of television productions happening in Georgia.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's great for her.
Speaker C:I. I'm kind of one toe in the film industry and mostly into progressing ballistic dummy lab and other avenues.
Speaker C:But she.
Speaker C:She loves being on set, so that was a deciding factor.
Speaker B:So we've seen your product and probably hundreds of YouTube videos.
Speaker B:What is the craziest thing that somebody's called you and been like, yeah, we're going to shoot your product with this.
Speaker C:Oh wow.
Speaker C:Well, I mean there's been two videos this year, well alone with RPGs which is pretty freaking amazing.
Speaker C:And then when Grand Thumb did the tank we've been, I mean I've been going down to drive tanks for about three or four years now, ever since, you know, to go into the gundies and whatnot.
Speaker C:And we've always been talking about doing the tank and they're like, well, we don't know how well we can aim it to actually hit a body and whatnot.
Speaker C:And then he finally pulled it off.
Speaker C:It's pretty amazing.
Speaker B:Yeah, I've seen it with the tank.
Speaker B:Somebody hit it with a cannon.
Speaker C:Yeah, we did the, the cannonball we did in.
Speaker C:We did that up at Washington County Machine Guns which is in south western Pennsylvania.
Speaker C:Really amazing ranch up there where they have.
Speaker C:He has like, oh, the guy's name is Tread.
Speaker C:He has like over 80 plus machine guns.
Speaker C:You can come and just rent out.
Speaker C:You can have a bachelor party there.
Speaker C:You can do all kinds of stuff.
Speaker C:Plus he's fully explosives certified so we were able to do a bunch of like explosives and whatnot up there.
Speaker C:So it was a lot of fun.
Speaker C:But we.
Speaker C:He had a bowling ball cannon and yeah, watching that bowling ball go through the body, it was.
Speaker C:None of us guessed it would go completely through like that.
Speaker C:That was amazing.
Speaker B:So being we were talking a little bit beforehand being a part of set productions and things like that.
Speaker B:What is your opinion on the Alec Baldwin situation?
Speaker C:From what I've read and I, I, when I read things, I try to get it from more than one source and I've actually followed the trial.
Speaker C:A little bit of the armor there.
Speaker C:I think she probably was justified in getting a manslaughter charge.
Speaker C:You know, obviously it was a negligent manslaughter.
Speaker C:It's not, you know, so we'll see what the sentencing is.
Speaker C:But she's the armor is in charge of the weapons when they're on set.
Speaker C:So I mean it was up to her to make sure that there were no live rounds in her box, which obviously was a live round that, you know, fired and killed the lady.
Speaker C:As far as Alec Baldwin's responsibility, they're definitely, I think there's definitely some negligence there as far as like how he was handling the gun while the camera woman was, you know, focusing the camera.
Speaker C:He probably shouldn't have been aiming it at her because usually when you're on set, if somebody's gonna be in the line of sight of the gun.
Speaker C:There's some form of safety barrier put up, which obviously they didn't have up.
Speaker C:So I'm.
Speaker C:This is speculation, but I. I think she was focusing for the scene, but for the practice.
Speaker C:But then as soon as they were going to shoot the real scene and shoot the actual blank, she wasn't even going to be behind the camera.
Speaker C:There's gonna be, you know, safely offset.
Speaker C:So I think it's a little bit of negligence on him pointing a gun at someone and then a little bit of negligence on him not knowing, you know, whatever.
Speaker C:Did he pull the trigger?
Speaker C:Did he not pull the trigger?
Speaker C:Obviously he was playing with something on the gun that made it go off.
Speaker C:He probably shouldn't have been doing that.
Speaker C:That's one side of it.
Speaker C:The other side of it is he's a producer and he was a controlling producer.
Speaker C:He wasn't just putting money into the project producer.
Speaker C:So he had a responsibility to be controlling the set and making sure there was proper safety meetings.
Speaker C:There were.
Speaker C:There's rumors of safety meetings being rushed, like everything, you know, pick it up, pick it up.
Speaker C:Let's not be as safe as they should be.
Speaker C:So I think that in itself is a negligence.
Speaker C:So we'll see.
Speaker C:He's pretty famous.
Speaker C:Brad has pretty good lawyers.
Speaker C:But, I mean, in my mind, there is some responsibility there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think it's just interesting from, you know, obviously we don't have any experience on a set.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:That's not something that we've ever done.
Speaker A:The vast majority of people that have weighed in on that have probably also never been, you know, on a set and even seen those precautions, like you said, you know, putting up a barrier and things like that.
Speaker A:What has been interesting to me from the kind of view of media coming out of about it, is how fast the narrative blamed the firearm and not the people in charge of the firearm.
Speaker A:And we preach a lot about personal responsibility.
Speaker A:It's, I think, the foundation for every gun owner, for anyone who handles any weapon of any kind, not just firearms.
Speaker A:And so it's always just kind of struck me as odd that they were so fast and so unified in the blaming of the inanimate object that requires someone to do something with.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Immediately he was pushed away from the blame.
Speaker B:It had everything to do with the gun.
Speaker B:It did it all on its own.
Speaker B:Like, that's not how that works.
Speaker B:Not at all.
Speaker B:Anybody who's handled any type of firearm knows that.
Speaker B:But we've seen just the exact opposite with Will Smith on a set.
Speaker B:And somebody reached down to touch something and he smacked their hand and cleared it as they picked it up and they start, they were starting to do stuff.
Speaker B:Will grabbed it from him and, and racked it back and cleared it.
Speaker B:So there is clearly some actors who, I guess we put Keanu Reeves on that, who've seeked extensive firearms training for productions and some who just clearly vilify them and then don't seek the proper training.
Speaker B:And then accidents happen.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, I think that what Taryn does for the actors is amazing.
Speaker C:I mean, I've seen it firsthand and it's, it's really cool to see these actors going through live fire situations so they know what that gun does, you know, know they all have a, a big respect for those guns.
Speaker C:And I had, I, the, I can't remember his name for the life of me, but I had the chance to work with the Terence equivalent in the uk and you guys know what the gun laws are in the uk.
Speaker C:You basically cannot have a gun unless a very special circumstance.
Speaker C:But he had an, he had an underground range and he would teach, when I say underground, it was legal, but it was literally underground.
Speaker C:And he would teach the actors over there.
Speaker C:And I think that's, that's a huge thing for anybody who's going to be handling a weapon on set, especially the arm.
Speaker C:Obviously the armor had been around things.
Speaker C:She was just being irresponsible.
Speaker C:But you know, the guy who always mostly works with Taryn, Gary Tours, super amazing guy also he did all the John Wicked stuff and you know, you have to have respect for it.
Speaker C:I mean, you have to understand what's in your hands or else, I mean, stuff happens.
Speaker A:Well, I think that people who do it right and understand the responsibility, understand the risks, and I think they do good as far as, you know, making sure that firearms remain a part of our culture because, you know, whether we like it or not, and we can.
Speaker A:And I'll be the first to say, you know, I don't think that Hollywood should be the sole purveyors of culture in our country.
Speaker A:I think that they are a purveyor of culture.
Speaker A:I don't agree with everything that they think is culturally relevant, but they are a substantial voice.
Speaker A:And so it's unfortunate when you see movies that are portraying firearms in a negligent way or in a way where it's not respecting the firearms, because for many people that is their first introduction into the second Amendment, at least visually or conceptually.
Speaker A:And so you have to have a understanding of, I think, responsibility over profit and Understanding that the firearms community is an incredibly welcoming place, but it's something that we all take a tremendous amount of pride and responsibility for.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And to piggyback off of you on that, I mean, we are fighting and have been fighting the Undetectable Firearms Act.
Speaker B:And that kind of misnomer came from Hollywood.
Speaker B:I mean, look at it was.
Speaker B:I think it was Die Hard 2 is when he's like, oh, he had a Glock.
Speaker B:It's a porcelain pistol that can go through metal detectors.
Speaker B:Anybody who's handled a gun knows that there's no such thing as an undetectable firearm.
Speaker B:They all have metal in them somewhere.
Speaker B:Do I need to preach it louder for the people in the back?
Speaker B:The barrel has to be metal.
Speaker B:There's metal inserts in there.
Speaker B:The firing pin is metal.
Speaker B:The ammunition is metal.
Speaker B:Do I have to keep going?
Speaker B:Like, come on.
Speaker B:The thing with the.
Speaker B:As much as we hate how Hollywood portrays firearms and how they use it to get profit, but come at us and go, we don't need them.
Speaker B:They're also an avenue to get in the Second Amendment.
Speaker B:A lot of people buy firearms because they've seen it in a movie or they saw it in a video game or something like that, and it's an avenue for people to get in.
Speaker B:And, you know, I guess you could call it part of the on ramp.
Speaker B:But I would like for them to, like, actually learn and educate themselves.
Speaker B:And I think a lot of, like, I think what Taren's doing is outstanding by educating and.
Speaker B:And teaching them the proper how to properly handle and how it actually works.
Speaker B:And that's why I enjoy a lot of the movies that he has been kind of helping with over the years.
Speaker C:Well, I think, you know, and.
Speaker B:How.
Speaker C:Could I put it when I said I was going to get an apologize, but here we go.
Speaker C:When the.
Speaker C:When, you know, the left in the Clinton era was completely different than the left is now.
Speaker C:I mean, I think everyone can agree on that.
Speaker C:But if you look at the film industry, it hasn't always been like it is now.
Speaker C:And there are, I mean, one person still in the film industry that.
Speaker C:And still directing that he's not gonna be around for me.
Speaker C:Well, I shouldn't say that's not nice, but he's getting up there in age.
Speaker C:But Clint Eastwood, and he's a big advocate for, you know, second amendment.
Speaker C:And he.
Speaker C:You can see it from all his movies.
Speaker C:I mean, Dirty Harry all the way up, man, he respects those guns.
Speaker C:And the gun was a big part of his movies.
Speaker C:And, you know, his amazing Stuff.
Speaker C:Charlton Heston, obviously, we lost him, but there's been people in the industry and I think if you go back further into like the western era and whatnot, everybody there, John Wayne, you know, they, they all knew what a gun was.
Speaker C:They knew how to handle it and they respected it and they believed in gun rights.
Speaker C:But I think that unfortunately, Hollywood being union run and unions being aligned with the left, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, we just saw, that was a month or two ago, Kurt Russell do an interview and somebody was trying to bring up the second Amendment.
Speaker B:He goes, this is not what this conversation about.
Speaker B:You know where I stand on this.
Speaker B:I'm a strong supporter.
Speaker B:And you're just trying to get your narrative out.
Speaker B:I'm not going to be a part of this.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, there's some, I mean, Kurt Russell is a good example.
Speaker B:Trying to think of.
Speaker B:There's a lot, there's a couple, a.
Speaker C:Lot out there and a lot of them are underground because they're a lot, a lot of us who work in Hollywood or, you know, we, we, we zip it when we're on set.
Speaker C:I mean, there's a lot of people are underground.
Speaker C:I mean, who would have thought Halle Berry, you know, it's like there's a lot of people who are gun owners, gun respect guns.
Speaker C:And you know, I mean, so do.
Speaker A:You think, because again, like, I, I've never lived in Hollywood, I'm not going to know these kind of details.
Speaker A:But do you think that the divide between those who own guns and respect guns and understand are kind of separating out from those that, that don't?
Speaker A:Or are they so underground that you would never even know, you know, who they are?
Speaker C:Well, it's funny because we were all talking about COVID earlier and it was kind of funny what happened during COVID Funny and scary at the same time.
Speaker C:You know, all the people who publicly were against guns went out and bought guns in, in where I lived, I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker C:In Southern California.
Speaker C:I don't know how it was out here and whatnot, but it was a, the weirdest thing, man.
Speaker A:Well, I think that we saw a lot of new gun owners that didn't expect to see themselves become gun owners, become gun owners?
Speaker A:Yeah, so I think that that was a nationwide phenomenon, but, you know, it is.
Speaker A:I do wonder if those people who bought guns are still how public they are in their fight against the very thing that they now participate in.
Speaker C:I mean, if they were, then I mean, we could come up with names for them.
Speaker B:Well, I Mean, I was in sales in the industry at the time of COVID and I remember very distinctly going to shops to go drop off orders and do stuff and there be nothing.
Speaker B:I mean, we saw millions and millions of people get into the, the gun space during that time and tons of new gun owners.
Speaker B:Probably the largest increase in gun ownership in US history.
Speaker B:I don't know the full numbers, but I know we broke several month to month records just for the, the Nick system.
Speaker B:And that's just the number of background checks.
Speaker B:So we know some data.
Speaker B:We don't know all the data, but it was crazy because there were things like at one point I was talking to one of the Glock reps, he goes, we've got nothing.
Speaker B:We've dug everything out of the warehouse that we can find.
Speaker B:There are guns that we didn't know they didn't know they have.
Speaker B:But as a joke he's like, we had things that we didn't think would sell and we have sold off all our old stock and everything that we've had for years that have been sitting there.
Speaker B:And it was a phenomenon for the industry.
Speaker B:It was a great time in the industry on the sales side.
Speaker B:And we've seen the trend unfortunately drop downward.
Speaker B:But I'd love to see that continue to grow and break record numbers every year and every month as we continue to grow.
Speaker B:The Second Amendment.
Speaker B:I think a lot of people saw that.
Speaker B:They took the initiative to put their own safety in their hands and made an investment in themselves.
Speaker C:I'm sorry, I didn't mean to.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, you're good.
Speaker C:Is there any data on the amount of people who.
Speaker C:I mean, that'd be tough data to source.
Speaker C:Like people who bought it and kept it or that data?
Speaker B:I don't think we have that data who bought it and kept it.
Speaker B:But the data states it was somewhere upwards of 10 to 20 million new gun owners.
Speaker A:It was insane.
Speaker C:And I'm, I'm, I'm guessing that that's all related to the ammunition shortages.
Speaker C:But now what's the new thing?
Speaker C:Like I, I've been hearing rumors about the new ammunition problem, that it's.
Speaker C:Can you fill me in on that or did you guys already talk about that?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:So I have a friend who works for an ammunition company.
Speaker B:We were talking about this.
Speaker B:So basically the chemical that they use to make the powder is being hard to source because a lot of the NATO countries are buying it up to make powder for the ongoing wars.
Speaker B:And what has happened is they are buying powder from secondary sources to load and basically like they would call.
Speaker B:They called their manufacturer and was like, hey, we need.
Speaker B:I think it was something like four container loads of nine mil.
Speaker B:And they're like, cool.
Speaker B:We have no powder.
Speaker B:So they sourced powder from another company to send to them and go, here's your powder.
Speaker B:I need four container loads of nine mil.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:Right now it's a powder shortage.
Speaker B:I'm hoping not to fear Monger or do anything, but I'm hoping that we can get that going and through.
Speaker B: I mean, back in: Speaker B:Like the company that does.
Speaker B:There's like, one company that supplies a huge supply of the shotgun, I believe, plastic for the hulls and also the powder.
Speaker B:And they're out of Texas.
Speaker B:And when the Texas freeze happened, they lost everything.
Speaker C:Oh, no.
Speaker B:So that was another thing that it.
Speaker A: Was just all of: Speaker A:Like, just in general.
Speaker C:Well, yeah, one of the.
Speaker C:One of the factories and in Texas that they're all our pipes burst and they had to completely redo it.
Speaker C:They were a major resin manufacturer.
Speaker C:So we were having resin shortages for, like, bones and stuff.
Speaker C:Wasn't there one other thing going on, though, like a big sale of ammunition companies?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:So Vista Outdoors, who is one of the largest producers of ammunition in the U.S. they own brands like Federal Remington, Spear, CCI.
Speaker B:They just sold to a Czechoslovakian group.
Speaker B:And we've seen a lot of foreign interest in gun manufacturers over the last few years too, as well, which has been interesting.
Speaker C:How does everyone in the gun industry feel about that?
Speaker A:You know, that's a very good question.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So, like, we're a gun advocacy group, so we have friends in the industry that tell us all.
Speaker A:All kinds of stuff.
Speaker A:But, you know, it's.
Speaker A:It's complicated, I think, is everyone's feeling on it, you know, definitely.
Speaker A:You know, from a policy side of things, anytime you're dealing with potentially importing firearms changes the.
Speaker A:The standards for.
Speaker A:For firearms.
Speaker A:That it changes different bureaus and the atf.
Speaker A:And so it's something that we're constantly monitoring.
Speaker A:From the policy standpoint, it's complicated, right?
Speaker A:Because we want a very thriving firearms industry as well as a firearms community, and you can't have one without the other.
Speaker A:Like anybody that wants to separate and say, you know, like, I don't know why you all spend so much time talking about the industry or with the industry.
Speaker A:And it's like, because the industry faces a level of regulation that trickles down to you the end consumer.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like if they can't import firearm, it's not on shelves and you can't buy it.
Speaker A:So whether you think or don't think that, that the, the issues facing the industry matter.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It matters like everything is connected.
Speaker A:So it's, it's.
Speaker A:I don't know that anyone will ever truly understand like the effects when, when companies change hands or, or when new regulations, you know, come in.
Speaker A:I mean, I think that we see it in other industries.
Speaker C:You know, that's what I was going to bring up.
Speaker C:I mean, do you think we have the same dangers as, you know, moving steel across, you know, another country or moving any of our other industries, like electronic components that we saw during COVID I mean, could you run into some of those same dangers with.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think any time that you.
Speaker A:I do think that anytime you are in a situation where you're reliant on, on someone else in a different political system, it can cause.
Speaker A:Cause issues.
Speaker A:It doesn't mean that there'll always be issues.
Speaker A:But I think you're seeing that in the way that companies like Cannock are opening up manufacturing facilities in the United States because they want to make sure that they can still service the market.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I think it's also giving some opportunities for some smaller firearms companies to start up and to grow that are, you know, fully based in the US and so I think as the industry shifts, there's a certain amount of supply and demand that happens and things kind of get shift around.
Speaker B:I think the big thing from the industry side that we saw during the whole ammo shortage and things like that was that a lot of companies are looking bigger.
Speaker B:We'll say the bigger companies are looking at acquiring ammunition brands.
Speaker B:I mean, we saw our friends over at CZ just acquire MagTech.
Speaker B:And the reason for that is without.
Speaker B:First off, they need it for testing, but without the ammunition buying being on the shelves, the, the guns are basically useless.
Speaker B:I mean, you need one for the other.
Speaker B:And without having the ability to, let's just say, gives them the ability to be flexible.
Speaker B:So if, let's just say we have an another ammo shortage.
Speaker B:By having the ability to own your own manufacturing of ammunition, you could go, cool, I need to up the sales of my firearms.
Speaker B:If you buy XYZ gun, we have a rebate to send in to get 100 rounds or whatever.
Speaker A:It's not just that, like, if you think about all, I mean, obviously you've worked in the industry.
Speaker A:Just all of the ammunition that is spent in testing Firearms.
Speaker A:Like, you know, I. Oh, I know.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:We were scrounging.
Speaker B:We were.
Speaker B:I was wrestling for.
Speaker B:For ammunition, for testing and testing protocols and making sure that we had stuff.
Speaker B:Putting in orders with company.
Speaker B:I mean, we had a. I'm not going to say the company, but we had a large order in that was two years in the making, waiting for it to show up.
Speaker B:I mean, we had a yearly order that we put in for testing protocols, and we were told, sorry.
Speaker B:Nope, sorry.
Speaker B:I mean, we saw certain companies go direct, which affected the retailers.
Speaker B:We saw things like that.
Speaker B:But like a great example of someone shifting, I will say is Sig Sigma has their own ammunition facility.
Speaker B:And a lot of companies saw what SIG did, and SIG was able to test and sell and get product out and be able to give rebates and things like that to get ammo.
Speaker B:We're seeing.
Speaker B:So CZ bought MagTech.
Speaker B:I don't know the conglomerate that bought that side of Vista.
Speaker B:I mean, we're seeing Browning also coming out with their own ammo.
Speaker B:We've seen a number of companies now going out with their own ammo.
Speaker B: very reminiscent of like the: Speaker B:A lot of companies in that time were also either producing their own ammo or their cartridges were named after.
Speaker B:That's why we have like.45 Colt.
Speaker B:And we have, you know, all the ACPs for people that may not know ACP stands for auto Colt Pistol, because you would buy the gun and the ammo would tell you what to buy.
Speaker B:You know, hey, I have this.32 Colt.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker B:It says 32 Colt right there.
Speaker B:And I think we're seeing kind of that shift of companies now going back into their own control.
Speaker B:I wouldn't say controlling their own calibers because that was more of controlling your calibers back then, but controlling their flow of ammunition into them so they don't have to worry about that again.
Speaker B:They don't have to worry about the supply chain issue to get ammo for testing because they own the ammo that is being manufactured now.
Speaker B:They may have a brass shortage or primer shortage or powder shortage or projectile shortage that happens in any industry.
Speaker B:But you can.
Speaker B:Having the control to have your testing ammo is a big thing, especially because you've got.
Speaker B:Just look at our calendar.
Speaker B:You've got not only testing, but you have range days.
Speaker B:Without range days, you don't sell your product.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, I agree with that.
Speaker A:So to change subjects quite quickly, I would be so disappointed if I didn't ask this.
Speaker A:So obviously everyone's super familiar with their, with your products.
Speaker A:If they have opened YouTube or Rumble in the last, you know, few years, like, it's, it's the greatest hits.
Speaker A:What has been the reaction on the consumer side?
Speaker A:Like, I mean, I've seen T shirts with like your stuff on it and memes galore and like, how does it feel to be like in that pop culture moment?
Speaker C:I'm, you know, in a generation where we've seen so many different types of advertisement and I fought against the influencer market for a little bit and luckily I had some young blood in my, in my, in my shop during COVID I'll name him because Weston, he helped me out a lot back then.
Speaker C:He really talked me into getting in with the influencers and whatnot.
Speaker C:And I pushed against it because I, I, I didn't like, I love the ones I work with, but there are some that I didn't like how they did business, so to speak.
Speaker C:But it was, it's been the best thing for us popularity wise.
Speaker C:I mean, it was weird as it started to catch, I would go into the bank or something, you know, with a check or with my hat on.
Speaker C:They're like, oh, ballistic dummy Lab, that's on Grand Thumb.
Speaker C:Or oh, ballistic dummy Lab, that's on Kentucky Ballistics.
Speaker C:Or even the UPS guy.
Speaker C:Oh, this is going to, you know, so it's so weird to have that happening now.
Speaker C:But I mean, obviously it's been great for business.
Speaker C:They all have a lot of followers and whatnot.
Speaker C:Now the everyday consumer isn't going to go out and buy, you know, a torso and whatnot, but we do have, you know, lower end items as our heads and hands.
Speaker C:And now we have rabbits.
Speaker C:Everybody go check out our rabbits.
Speaker C:But no, it's been pretty cool.
Speaker C:I mean, my, my, I think my wife's, she loves social media so she may be more excited about it than I am.
Speaker C:I love it for the business reasons.
Speaker C:She's like, wow, everywhere you go, people know you.
Speaker C:And I'm just like,.
Speaker A:So are the rabbits kind of like a expansion into like hunting or, or where, where, where are we going?
Speaker C:Okay, so full transparency.
Speaker C:The rabbits were being designed last year and they were meant to be a release for Easter.
Speaker C:But we, since we make everything in house, we literally make molds.
Speaker C:We make, we make everything ourselves.
Speaker C:It didn't quite happen in time.
Speaker C:So I, I told everyone, okay, we're gonna release them next year for Easter.
Speaker C:But I said, hey, you know what?
Speaker C:Instead of just releasing a jelly rabbit, let's do internals and everything.
Speaker C:So, you know, because Other people have jelly rabbits, but.
Speaker C:So we came up with the whole bone structure.
Speaker C:And you can get it with bones.
Speaker C:You can get it with bones and organs, and the organs actually bleed.
Speaker C:So it's kind of cool.
Speaker C:So it was.
Speaker C:It's a spring release.
Speaker C:It's more of a fun product.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:For hunting.
Speaker C:We did just come out with a bear head.
Speaker C:Vortex Optics commissioned us on that one to build a bear head because they were testing bear defense rounds.
Speaker C:And it was really cool because I. I would have never thought to build a bear head because, you know, obviously it's not for hunting, it's for defense.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:But it gave me some ideas to come up with that are defense rounds testing.
Speaker C:Because everyone's like, build hunting things.
Speaker C:And I'm hunting.
Speaker C:These are cool.
Speaker C:But I know where you shoot an animal for hunting is a very specific part, and you wouldn't want to make a entire ballistic deer, you know, so we.
Speaker C:We have ideas.
Speaker C:I won't spill them right now, but we do have ideas for.
Speaker C:For hunting products.
Speaker C:But I'm liking the defense.
Speaker C:The defense realm right now.
Speaker C:It's kind of fun.
Speaker A:Very cool.
Speaker B:Yeah, because that'd be cool.
Speaker B:When you said rabbits, the first thing I thought was, oh, all the guys who want to test their rabbit hunting loads now have an ability to, like, see what they actually do before they go full into it.
Speaker B:I think the.
Speaker B:I will say this.
Speaker B:The coolest thing I've ever gotten.
Speaker B:I believe it was from you.
Speaker B:I was at Blade show, and I got a little chunk of ballistic jelly.
Speaker B:It was sat on my desk, and I would stab it with things during the day.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:Oh, I'm stressed stab.
Speaker C:I remember that.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:We were the Blade Show Atlanta.
Speaker C:I think that.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's what it was.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It was when Tony, he had just released that knife with we knives.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And at one.
Speaker C:Or Civivi.
Speaker C:Was it civivi or what?
Speaker C:I mean, it's the same company.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And he had won that year for best best new knife.
Speaker C:And we.
Speaker C:We had actually had a dummy in.
Speaker C:We're friends with, you know, the rep out here and the US and he let us put a dummy up in the booth.
Speaker C:And Seth was, you know, stabbing it up, and I'm not Seth.
Speaker C:I'm sorry, Tony.
Speaker C:Yeah, Seth's the guy, the ref and I decided, hey, it'd be cool to have our business card, but put a little piece of synthetic gel on it.
Speaker C:People love that thing.
Speaker C:They were.
Speaker B:Oh, it was so much fun.
Speaker B:I had it on my desk for.
Speaker B:Until it finally was like, Tore it apart.
Speaker B:And I had my.
Speaker B:A friend of mine gave me their.
Speaker B:His.
Speaker B:They came out with a stabby Sharpie.
Speaker B:It's like G10 instead of Sharpie.
Speaker B:So, like, I was sitting there at my desk going, okay, stabby Sharpie.
Speaker B:And then I put it into my pen holder, like, the Sharpie, and somebody went to go write with it and ripped up what they were writing.
Speaker B:And they're like, why do you have this?
Speaker B:I'm like, don't ask questions.
Speaker B:Why don't you have this?
Speaker B:No, but I was just seeing what it would do.
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, this is cool.
Speaker C:Yeah, those are pretty gnarly.
Speaker C:Yeah, they were.
Speaker C:I was impressed with those.
Speaker C:But, yeah, I mean, hey, maybe.
Speaker C:Maybe we need to come up with stress desktop stress relievers.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:I think you would sell a significant amount.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:I had so much fun doing that.
Speaker B:Like, stressful day.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Stabby Sharpie.
Speaker A:It's like the tactical voodoo doll.
Speaker A:Like, instead.
Speaker B:Oh, it'd be a voodoo doll.
Speaker A:Just give Goa like, a roundup on the product for the idea.
Speaker C:We'll just.
Speaker C:We'll just double brand it, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah, we could.
Speaker A:We could work on something out on.
Speaker B:That voodoo stress doll.
Speaker B:Just with the stabby Sharpie all day.
Speaker A:Just make sure that it's.
Speaker A:You know, I don't know.
Speaker A:We could.
Speaker A:Never mind.
Speaker A:I don't need any home visits.
Speaker B:ATF knocking on the door.
Speaker B:Nothing here.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:That was probably my favorite thing from Blade show, and I bought a few things while I was at blade show, but that was one of my favorite things to bring home because I was able to just say it sat there for a long time until I destroyed it and I stabbed it with a few things.
Speaker B:Maybe.
Speaker B:I think I put a paperclip in it one time just to see what would happen.
Speaker C:And that was our.
Speaker C:Our synthetic gel.
Speaker C:So it doesn't.
Speaker C:The cool part about that is, like, as you saw, you can just let it sit and it doesn't go bad.
Speaker C:Our organic gel, over time, it'll shrink, and then there's potential for mold do.
Speaker C:But I. I personally think the organic tests better.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:For bullets and whatnot.
Speaker C:Just from what I've seen, the synthetic has the same 20% property, but I find it to be a little more rubbery.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, I found it.
Speaker C:We.
Speaker B:I. I think I cut it the one time and I, like, pushed it back together, and then I came back and it was, like, stuck together.
Speaker C:Like, oh, yeah.
Speaker B:I was like, oh, cool, it's back together.
Speaker A:I don't have to worry about this self healing.
Speaker B:Self healing.
Speaker C:I don't know how well I'm going to be dating myself now, but when I was a kid, we to have these.
Speaker C:The Swamp Thing, Remember him?
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:There's a character, but you could literally rip his arms off and then they would heal back together.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's like the Stretch Armstrong.
Speaker C:Yeah, those things are fun.
Speaker B:No, I, I think I had, I had way too much fun with that.
Speaker B:I got told I needed to stop playing with that the one day cuz I was just having too much fun.
Speaker C:I just got to send you a bigger chunk for your des.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, I was just, just.
Speaker B:I mean, it would be great.
Speaker B:Just like a zoom meeting.
Speaker B:You just turn off your camera.
Speaker B:Why are you saying things turn on?
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a great idea.
Speaker B:Let's keep going on this.
Speaker A:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker A:We just evolved.
Speaker C:No, we called the.
Speaker C:The mental health block.
Speaker B:Yes, the mental health block.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker B:Everybody's been in a zoom meeting where they're just like, want to like, scream so they shut off their camera and mic.
Speaker B:Now think about it.
Speaker B:You could shut off your camera and mic and just start stabbing a gel block on your desk.
Speaker B:Just imagine now again, make sure it's office appropriate.
Speaker B:Could you imagine just like walking by somebody's office and you know they're in a meeting and you just see them go.
Speaker B:And you're like, what is happening?
Speaker B:Oh, that.
Speaker B:Yeah, that meeting's going bad.
Speaker B:It's going poorly.
Speaker A:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So we can continue with the fourth quarter numbers.
Speaker A:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker A:I don't even know.
Speaker C:We went down a path there, man.
Speaker B:Yeah, listen, we've all been there.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker C:Oh, believe me, I take much pleasure in destroying.
Speaker C:Like whenever I have something, I just doesn't come out right and I can't quite sell it to a customer.
Speaker C:We take out in the parking lot and have fun with it.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:I love that there's so much joy in your company, like, because you make a product that's just fun.
Speaker A:Like, it's okay to have fun shooting.
Speaker A:And a lot of the content, especially from the content creator side, is just fun and entertaining to watch.
Speaker A:And I think sometimes we get so serious in the firearms industry that we forget that, like, shooting is fun and it's okay to have fun.
Speaker C:Well, the hardest part, the.
Speaker C:When I first started making videos was I. I was trying not to laugh because I'm like.
Speaker C:I'm like I'm destroying something that looks like humanistic with a sword or a gun or a knife and I'm laughing my ass off about it, but I'm not laughing because I'm of the simulation.
Speaker C:I'm just laughing because there's fake blood spraying everywhere.
Speaker C:And it's, let's face it, it's fake blood and jelly and everything.
Speaker C:It's just, it's, it's like you said, it's fun.
Speaker C:It's not relief.
Speaker B:If you could figure out how to partner up with our friend of my friends over at AZ Numchucks shout out to those guys and figure out because they partner up.
Speaker B:I was talking to him.
Speaker B:The owner, Scott over there is a good friend of mine.
Speaker B:He also owns Apex.
Speaker B:Tactical or no, Apex, not Apex Tactile.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The Apex, the trigger company.
Speaker B:Him and I were talking and he, he started doing the dump Chuck thing on the side because Arizona had a law that you couldn't own nunchucks.
Speaker C:Oh my gosh.
Speaker B:And they changed the law, which is the weirdest law for Arizona to have.
Speaker B:So he started making it.
Speaker B:So he told me the last time I saw him that he started working with smash rooms.
Speaker B:I'm like, think of a ballistic dummy smash room where you get like not a dummy, but something like a zombie.
Speaker B:Just green blood flying everywhere as you're beating a zombie with a nunchuck.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, I'm 100% in.
Speaker B:There's the business idea right there.
Speaker C:It's been put on the table before.
Speaker C:I'll just leave it at that.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:Well, thanks for coming in.
Speaker C:It was great.
Speaker C:It was awesome sitting and talking with you guys.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Feel free to plug social website where people can get all of the fun things that they could want.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean if you want to check out our website to see what kind of products we have, it'd be ballistic dummy lab dot com.
Speaker C:We do have our own YouTube channel as well.
Speaker C:It's just if you just look up Ballistic Dummy Lab, there's videos that we've done ourselves and I'm sure you've seen tons of videos that other people have done.
Speaker C:We love it.
Speaker C:You know, people like and follow us where our social media is growing still.
Speaker C:So it's always nice to have, you know, like minded people become and befriend us.
Speaker A:And where can people find you on social media?
Speaker C:Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker C:So we would have our YouTube channel.
Speaker C:We're also on Instagram, just saying Ballistic Dummy Lab.
Speaker C:And we're.
Speaker C:We're basically on everything.
Speaker C:We're on X.
Speaker C:We're on.
Speaker C:We're on TikTok.
Speaker C:We're on.
Speaker C:And it's all just under ballistic Dude.
Speaker C:Dummy labs.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:So, guys, make sure to, like, share and subscribe.
Speaker B:Hit the little bell for notification, leave a five star review on all the podcasting hosts, and have a great rest of your day.
