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Catalyzing Innovation in Ontario’s Aerospace Industry
Episode 4 • 29th August 2025 • Making it in Ontario • Trillium Network for Advanced Manufacturing
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The Downsview Aerospace Innovation & Research (DAIR) Hub is working to advance Canada’s global aerospace industry through collaboration. In this episode, DAIR’s executive director Phil Arthurs shares insights into Ontario's aerospace industry and how programs like its Green Fund and Supplier Development Initiative are catalyzing innovation within it. Phil highlights the importance of aerospace to Ontario's economy, underlines why being in the same room is key for collaboration, and extends an invitation to the organization’s flagship event, DAIR to Innovate, on October 23, 2025.

  • 00:00 Introduction to Making it in Ontario
  • 02:17 Phil's Career Journey and DAIR's Evolution
  • 11:04 DAIR's Green Fund and Supplier Development Initiative
  • 18:09 The Pan-Canadian Aerospace Industry
  • 20:09 How to Bring Industry and Academics Together
  • 22:56 The Importance of Physical Spaces for Collaboration
  • 24:39 Preview of DAIR to Innovate 2025
  • 29:30 Where Ontario’s Aerospace Industry is Heading
  • 37:10 Navigating This Dynamic Trade, Investment and Labour Force Environment

Highlighted Links

Find Out More about DAIR

  • Website: dairhub.com
  • LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/dairhub
  • Instagram: instagram.com/dairhub
  • Facebook: facebook.com/DAIRHub

Find Out More About Trillium

About the Making it in Ontario Podcast

Making it in Ontario is your window into what's next in manufacturing. Ontario’s economy depends on manufacturing, but the latest research reveals concerning trends that could undermine the sector’s strength—if we don’t address them. Join us as we talk to CEOs and other leaders at the forefront of the sector about productivity, strategy, talent markets and career opportunities, and the role of manufacturing in a prosperous and sustainable future.

This podcast is an initiative of the Trillium Network for Advanced Manufacturing. It is produced by Storied Places Media.

Transcripts

Michelle Samson:

Welcome to Making it in Ontario, your window into what's next in

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Ontario's manufacturing sector from the

data driven researchers at the Trillium

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Network for Advanced Manufacturing.

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I'm Michelle Samson.

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Brendan Sweeney: And I'm Brendan Sweeney.

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Michelle Samson: Alright, Brendan, we

are back with yet another episode and

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this is gonna be an interesting one.

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We've got Phil Arthurs, the Executive

Director of Downsview Aerospace

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Innovation and Research, or DAIR.

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Brendan Sweeney: Or also

known as The DAIR Hub.

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It is a nonprofit focused on aerospace

located at Centennial College with

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some close ties to Centennial's

Bombardier Center for Aerospace and

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Aviation where DAIR will be holding

it's DAIR to Innovate:

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Great event.

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I'm always there.

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I'm always front and center.

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And that's gonna be on

the 23rd of October.

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And yeah, Phil and I are

contemporaries of sorts.

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I guess we're kind of at

similar places in our career.

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We both spent time in Seattle in the late

two thousands, although Phil was working

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in the aerospace industry, and I was at

the University of Washington at the time.

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But more importantly, both Phil

and I run manufacturing-focused or

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industry-focused nonprofits based at

post-secondary institutions in Ontario.

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Phil's a repeat guest, although he hasn't

been on for a couple years, and the last

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time he was on, he was in a different job.

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He was in a different position

with DAIR than he is now.

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So we're gonna get into

that in the podcast.

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Michelle Samson: Yeah, so this is

an episode for all of you aerospace

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nerds who may even be listening to

this episode, if you're listening to

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it as it's fresh dropped on August

29th, you may be listening to it on

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the way to the CNE Air Show in Toronto,

which is happening this weekend.

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Brendan Sweeney: Very apropos.

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And remember, 23rd of October, DAIR

to Innovate at Centennial College's

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bombardier Center for Aerospace and

Aviation in Toronto near Downsview.

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Great show.

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Great event.

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Links in the show notes.

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See you there.

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Phil, welcome back.

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It has been a while since we've

had you on Making it in Ontario.

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Phil Arthurs: Great to be back.

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Thanks for inviting me back.

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Brendan Sweeney: The last time we

had you on Making it in Ontario,

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a bit more than two years ago, you

were still with DAIR, in a bit of a

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different position than you are today.

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Give the world an update.

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Phil Arthurs: Yeah, absolutely.

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And that was such a great time being on

the podcast a few years ago and great

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to come back and update what we're

working on and the state of the industry.

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So, as you mentioned, when I was

last on, I was serving as Director

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of Operations for DAIR, Downsview

Aerospace Innovation and Research.

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Joined the DAIR organization way

back in:

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years as Director of Operations.

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I was actually the first

full-time employee of DAIR.

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Really learning from some great

individuals, Andrew Petrou, who is now our

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chairman of the board, and Maryse Harvey,

who's also now on our board of directors.

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And then, yeah, last year in the spring,

I took over as executive director.

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So it's been a little over a

year now in the leadership role

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working with our fantastic team.

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There's five of us full-time at

DAIR now delivering on our mandate.

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So it's been a great transition.

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I've learned a lot in DAIR

as well as my background.

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And we're really looking forward

to continuing to and grow the

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aerospace and defence and advanced

manufacturing ecosystem around Toronto,

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across Ontario and across Canada.

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Brendan Sweeney: And you are

affiliated with a post-secondary

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institution, correct?

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Phil Arthurs: We are.

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So DAIR Itself was kind of

born out of Centennial College.

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So it started more as a working group

with founding members Centennial

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College, with Bombardier, with

the University of Toronto, but

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almost incubated within Centennial.

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Since 2020, that's when we officially

incorporated as a not-for-profit.

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So stood up our own board of directors,

our own governance as an independent

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organization, but still working very

closely with all of our members and

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partners, but obviously with a very

strong connection to Centennial.

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So for example, as we continue to build

the physical infrastructure, so the

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physical innovation hub at Downsview

Park in Toronto, we make use of the

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facilities that are there already,

including Centennial's facilities.

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So, it's a really great mutually

beneficial partnership that helps

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drive research partnerships, events,

and training for the industry.

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Brendan Sweeney: And I think we figured

out a few months ago, that we are similar

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in that we are at the helm of, or in your

case piloting, small nonprofits with an

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industry focus that are affiliated with

an Ontario post-secondary institution.

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And so not many people like

us, but there's a couple.

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There's a couple.

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So, Maryse was probably a great boss

and someone who was great to take over.

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What did you learn from her and what

have you learned since the transition

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has happened as you've been in the lead?

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Phil Arthurs: Yeah, absolutely.

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And I think it even goes back further,

when I first joined, we were still setting

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up the governance of the organization.

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We were still more loosely affiliated.

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And so, you know, coming on board as

an employee coming from the Government

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of Ontario, which was my previous

role, managing the aerospace team

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in the economic development area, it

was very interesting to come into an

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organization and help be a part of

its evolution, it's set up, from the

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governance, how we were gonna operate,

how we were going to develop and deliver

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programs to support the industry.

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And absolutely, yeah, working

and learning from Maryse and her

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background and her expertise.

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And then taking that as well as my

background, which has always been

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aerospace focused, aerospace engineering,

working in the industry for a number

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of years, and then still focused on

aerospace, but in government and kind

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of taking that all as a package to

hopefully continue the trajectory of the

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organization and DAIR, you know, starting

last year, taking over and looking at

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what our next kind of 5, 10 year plan

looks like to help drive growth for the

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industry, solidify our place in global

supply chains, help companies invest in

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productivity and digital technologies.

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And so it's trying to take my

entire background and looking at,

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as you put it, piloting, but working

with a small team, you know, five

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individuals, including myself.

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How do we compliment that with amazing

experts, external experts, to really

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have the impact that we think we can,

even within a small organization.

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And that also includes, you

mentioned being so affiliated with

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post-secondary and you know this so well.

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It's how do you leverage those strengths?

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Such an amazing post-secondary

environment here in Ontario, but

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also, you know, across Canada

it's a struggling model right now.

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We know that there are struggles.

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But how do you take advantage?

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How do you promote, how do you make

the best of the amazing students,

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the researchers, the training

opportunities, the equipment that

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we have across Ontario and Canada?

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And how do you leverage

that to drive collaboration

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between industry and academic?

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Which is really the entire reason

for what DAIR is trying to do.

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It's catalyzing innovation.

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It's pushing collaboration between

those two parties, the large companies,

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the small companies, but the academics

and making sure that we're leveraging

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all of our tools to continue to really

punch above our weight when it comes

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to the aerospace and defence industry.

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Brendan Sweeney: Tell us a bit

about your experience in industry.

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You trained as an engineer.

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Phil Arthurs: Yes.

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Brendan Sweeney: What part of aerospace?

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Phil Arthurs: I guess going way back, I

did train as an aerospace engineer at,

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um, at the time it was Ryerson University,

it's now Toronto Metropolitan University.

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At that time they had two different

streams to focus in on, and I

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focused in on the space stream.

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But then I ended up working in industry

but more on the aircraft side of things.

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So I actually moved after

graduation to the United States.

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I worked on location at

Boeing in Everett, Washington.

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I was officially working for

Dassault Systèmes, so more on the

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software and that side of things,

but focused on supporting Boeing's

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787 program, the Dreamliner program.

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Really an amazing first

experience in industry.

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Being right there, learning

from colleagues and individuals

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with fantastic experience.

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And so I did two stints in

the US working at Boeing.

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I wanted, and I knew I always

wanted, to merge my engineering

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background with business.

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And so in between those two

stints, I did do an MBA focused

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on international business, and had

some great experience there, even

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working in the EU for a little while.

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But, uh, an amazing experience for me,

kind of working right there in industry.

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At the same time, you know, I knew I

did want to come back to Canada and

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to Ontario to continue my journey.

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And so that's when I made that decision

to come back, the opportunity arose

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with the government, which I wasn't

exactly looking for, but it was such

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an amazing opportunity to use the

understanding of industry that I gained

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while working in industry alongside

my educational background and, you

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know, support industry and ecosystem.

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That's also where I first

learned of the DAIR initiative.

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And when the opportunity arose to come

on board and help develop and move DAIR

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forward, it was a great opportunity.

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Brendan Sweeney: So we're gonna

probe this Everett, Washington thing

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for a minute because I don't know

if you know, but I'd spent time

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at the University of Washington.

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Phil Arthurs: I did know that, yes.

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Go Huskies!

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Brendan Sweeney: Yeah.

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'07, '08, Jake Locker was the quarterback.

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I lived in West Seattle, so I lived

like the opposite side of the city

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of the university, but the bar where,

like, my housemates and I would go

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out on Friday night was frequented by

people who worked at Boeing Sea–Tac.

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And for those who are not aware,

Seattle's kind of bookended to the

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north and south by big Boeing plants.

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What years were you there?

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Phil Arthurs: Very interestingly enough,

we would've overlapped and didn't know.

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I was there from '06 to '08 and

to:

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Brendan Sweeney: Interesting.

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Yeah.

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So tell us a bit about how

DAIR has evolved, emerged and

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evolved, since you've joined.

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And what are you doing more of

today that you were doing less of

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a few years ago and vice versa?

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Phil Arthurs: Well, it's a

really interesting kind of

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evolution of the organization.

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I mentioned, you know, we stood up

the governance and the organizational

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piece of things in 2020.

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Of course a very interesting

timeframe with COVID.

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Really were focused on the

physical infrastructure.

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But at the same time, because of some

of those uncertainties, we also knew

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that we could slightly pivot and start

offering some programming to support

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industry and academic partnerships.

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And so in 2022 with the support of

a program from the Federal Economic

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Development Agency for Southern

Ontario, or FedDev, we were able to

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develop two unique to Ontario programs.

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One called the DAIR Green Fund, which at

its core is a collaborative R&D program.

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We do calls for proposals for projects

that are led by Southern Ontario small

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and medium sized companies that over

the course of a 12 to 24 month project,

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we can support and take further up

the technology readiness level stream.

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So we're trying to move projects

towards commercialization.

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Projects that have a focus on

green or sustainable aviation.

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And since 2022, we've actually

supported, again, through the

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support of FedDev, 30 projects.

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These are smaller scale projects, we're

not investing hundreds of thousands

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of dollars, but these are really

projects that can have a tangible

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impact for these smaller companies.

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And we've seen over $4.2

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million in investment in these projects.

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We've seen job creation prototypes

that have been created and tested,

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commercialization, and global sales

by these SMEs in Southern Ontario.

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And, you know, we have some

projects that are in that program

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that are ongoing right now.

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We have plans for another call

for proposals down in the fall.

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And so this is a real tangible program

seeing great outcomes and great metrics.

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And a wide range of projects too.

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We're talking about new

materials and lightweighting.

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You know, we're talking

about battery technologies.

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We're talking unmanned and

drone related technologies.

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And even, one of our latest companies

that we're helping through a specific

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project in our DAIR Green Fund is

NordSpace, who I know came on the

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podcast just a little while ago.

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So, I think a great impact just

over, you know, a handful of

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years so far with that program.

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A program that's very scalable

and can support many more

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companies moving forward.

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The second that we were able

to really develop and deliver,

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again, starting in 2022, was our

Supplier Development Initiative.

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And this was really looking at how

can we help and think innovatively

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about increasing productivity and

optimization of our current supply chain.

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You know, how can we help companies

perhaps benchmark themselves against

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the global industry and the needs of

those original equipment manufacturers

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and Tier One companies to better

position themselves either with their

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current customer or set them up to

bid on and get more work globally.

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And so we set this program up.

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We actually modeled it after a

very successful program in Quebec

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called the MACH Initiative.

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And we really wanted to take

organizations through a bit of

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an audit process of their current

capabilities, look at that process,

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find opportunities for improvement.

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And then we invest in

improvement projects.

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And similarly, we've had 30

organizations go through this.

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Southern Ontario SMEs, again,

that have taken part and have

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invested, you know, over $2.5,

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close to $3 million in projects

that are supporting optimization

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efforts and productivity and digital

technology adoption and training.

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And so taking it all the way back

to your question, when I joined in

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2018 and we were looking at 2019,

:

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was going, we didn't know that

these programs would kind of evolve.

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We kind of looked at what was needed

in the industry, how we could work with

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our partners, and how could we really,

at that time right within COVID, pivot

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slightly to be able to offer these to

great success over the past three years

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while still moving forward, our plans

for the physical innovation hub, you

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know, a hub that currently has three

amazing facilities that are open today,

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operated by our partners, and another

one that just started work this summer.

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So it was kind of, how do we add this

programming support to continue to

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push academic-industry partnerships

to support the ecosystem while we're

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still moving the physical hub forward.

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Brendan Sweeney: What are some of the

elements, whether it's governance,

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whether it's communications, what

underlie the success of these programs?

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Phil Arthurs: That's a great question.

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I think it's a combination of factors.

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I mean, first and foremost, it's the team

that I have the privilege to work with.

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You know, bringing the right people

on to help us not just come in

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and run a preexisting program.

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They came in, joined our team,

and helped develop and now deliver

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the iterations of the program.

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We have an amazing partner, and I

don't just say funder, I say partner,

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in FedDev Ontario who understands what

we're trying to accomplish, sees us as a

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partner to help deliver on their mandate.

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We have great partnerships with

organizations like Trillium, the

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Ontario Aerospace Council to help

promote these initiatives to a broader

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range of participants across Ontario.

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And I'll also say that we didn't try

to completely reinvent the wheel.

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And what I mean by that is, we didn't

even start with a blank piece of paper.

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It was, are there things, are

there initiatives that have worked?

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And we really looked at Quebec.

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Why Quebec?

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I mean, when we talk aerospace in

Canada, we have amazing work that

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happens across the country, but Quebec

is, you know, 50, 60% of our industry.

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Ontario's 25 to 30, with great pockets

throughout the rest of Canada, and great

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work happening out west and out east.

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But we looked at a couple of

programs that had, you know, 15,

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20 year success runs in Quebec, so

namely what CRIAQ was doing from

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collaborative research and development

helped inspire the DAIR Green Fund.

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The MACH program, which I mentioned,

delivered by Aero Montreal helped

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inspire the DAIR Supplier Development

Initiative, and we have actually a great

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partnership with Aero Montreal on that.

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And so it was, can we learn, can we base

programs on what has been successful

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for industry and academic as well,

and tweak it, modify it to make sure

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it's working for the Ontario, in this

case, industry and the ecosystem.

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So I think it's a combination of

factors that I think have led to the

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ongoing success of the programs we've

been able to develop and deliver.

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Brendan Sweeney: I think that's a

really good point you make that, yeah.

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I mean, Quebec is synonymous with

aerospace in Canada, but there's full

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scale aircraft assembly and more,

you know, landing gear capital of the

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world kind of thing in the GTA, there's

other types of aircraft assembly in

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London, Ontario, big aerospace kind

of cluster in and around Winnipeg.

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You know, the Winnipeg Jets was

initially an homage to the air

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aerospace industry in that city.

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And now, you know, with De Havilland,

I don't know if it's online yet,

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but soon enough, De Havilland is

bringing a new aircraft assembly

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facility online near Calgary.

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And so this really is compared to, you

know, the automotive industry where we

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spend a lot of our time, aerospace really

is a much more pan-Canadian industry And

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so there's lots more partnerships, there's

lots more lessons and inspiration across

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the country than in other industries.

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Phil Arthurs: Yeah, it's fantastic

to really look at, you said it well,

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it's a very pan-Canadian industry,

and the amazing work that's happening

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in Quebec is I think complimenting

what's happening in Ontario.

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There's great partnerships

between industry and academics

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and vice versa, back and forth

over those provincial boundaries.

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At the same time, you know, we connect

and talk with organizations out east

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doing amazing work both at the university

and college level, but also industry.

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And you mentioned Winnipeg,

what's being stood up and

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done in Calgary and out in BC.

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And so, while DAIR, our physical hub

is in the Toronto area, Downsview

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Park area built really on, and many

people might not know this, the

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birthplace of aviation for Canada.

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We're trying to build on that history,

but we want to build from there.

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Support beyond the Greater Toronto

Area, all across Ontario, but also

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find these partnerships to support

the entire Canadian ecosystem

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when it comes to aerospace.

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Brendan Sweeney: Hmm.

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Industry and academic

partnerships, it's important.

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They can be challenging to get

off the ground because industry

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has certain wants and needs.

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Academics have certain wants and needs.

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What is, in your opinion, the best

way to bring industry and academics

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together to collaborate successfully?

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What's the link that's necessary there?

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Phil Arthurs: I think you almost

said it yourself, and it seems overly

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simplistic, but I think it is bringing

them actually together to discuss and

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to understand the priorities, the in

some cases ROI or metrics, in some cases

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the limitations that each other have.

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I think that can be, when it comes

to funding, it can be timelines.

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It can be where they are

in technology readiness.

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It really actually comes down to getting

them together, hopefully in the same room.

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But understanding each other's pain

points, you know, understanding what

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they're working on, understanding

what their areas of research,

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perhaps expertise are when it comes

to the universities and colleges.

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I would go further: understanding the

equipment and facilities that they have.

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In many cases, we have, you know, world

class facilities at our colleges and

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universities in Ontario and Quebec across

the country that are often underutilized.

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:

Mainly because industry doesn't

know that they're there.

349

:

Many times, projects that are maybe being

led by industry need a very specific

350

:

piece of equipment or area of expertise.

351

:

They don't know that that exists down

the road at a college or university.

352

:

And maybe they're going to

an out of country solution.

353

:

And so how do we connect the

academics and industries more?

354

:

How do we bring them closer together?

355

:

You know, there's things that

you can do from an online portal

356

:

perspective but, fundamentally,

getting them together to discuss these

357

:

opportunities and pain points in ways

that we can deal with things like

358

:

intellectual property, and timelines.

359

:

Getting them in the same

room, I think, is very key.

360

:

It's something that DAIR strives to do

really through our innovation network.

361

:

Actually, Brendan, you were at one

of our sessions earlier this year, a

362

:

design thinking workshop, which really

had this entire focus of how can we

363

:

break down some of those barriers?

364

:

How can we, DAIR, help facilitate

the ability of organizations to,

365

:

uh, make use of opportunities

beyond their own four walls.

366

:

And how can they tap into some of these

areas of expertise, these researchers,

367

:

and make it students that can take

part in, projects and opportunities.

368

:

But let's get them in the room, and let's

discuss all of these kind of items to

369

:

see what projects can come out of them.

370

:

Brendan Sweeney: So how important, I

mean, amidst all this, you mentioned

371

:

that DAIR has physical spaces.

372

:

How important is that to your

organization's mandate to be able

373

:

to bring people together in a space

meant for bringing industry and

374

:

academics and other partners together?

375

:

Phil Arthurs: Yeah I would

use the word enabler.

376

:

It's an absolute enabler to drive the

collaboration that we're trying to do.

377

:

In and out of itself.

378

:

It's not the end solution, it's

an enabler for us to catalyze, to

379

:

facilitate, to drive and help put

together world class innovation.

380

:

It's an opportunity to bring industry,

academia, government together.

381

:

It's an opportunity to understand what

each other is working on, to perhaps embed

382

:

shared equipment, to have co-location, and

to help drive the future-ready workforce.

383

:

You know, so it's these opportunities that

can come out of a physical innovation hub

384

:

and, you know, organizations that might

have their own space within a district.

385

:

But also we can have shared equipment,

we can have that type of space for the

386

:

smaller companies to come and be next

to a Toronto Metropolitan University and

387

:

their world-class research Centennial

College and experiential learning

388

:

opportunities, training opportunities

with their students, but also their

389

:

equipment and other co-locations.

390

:

So that's the way I would describe

the importance of the physical

391

:

innovation hub, and you see this

kind of worldwide as well, you know,

392

:

how those hubs can be an enabler for

the type of world-class innovation

393

:

we're trying to advance for Canada.

394

:

Brendan Sweeney: Great.

395

:

Professional question for you.

396

:

When you got into aerospace engineering,

did you think that however many

397

:

years later your job would turn at,

you know, at least for a month, a

398

:

year into being an event planner?

399

:

Phil Arthurs: Um, no.

400

:

I think you're teeing me up to promote

401

:

Brendan Sweeney: I am

absolutely teeing you up.

402

:

Phil Arthurs: DAIR to Innovate.

403

:

Somehow we're planning

our third iteration.

404

:

You know, when we started this, we thought

there was an opportunity to bring the

405

:

ecosystem together on site at Downsview.

406

:

And you never know when you're starting

the first iteration of an event.

407

:

And, um, it succeeded

beyond our expectations.

408

:

Grew last year in our second iteration.

409

:

And, you know, we're gonna

grow again this year.

410

:

So October 23rd we're gonna have over

300 individuals from large and small

411

:

companies, academics, government, other

research organizations and partner

412

:

organizations on site It's a unique forum.

413

:

So we do the conference and the tech

showcase in the hangars of Centennial

414

:

College's aerospace campus at Downsview,

which is called the Bombardier

415

:

Center for Aerospace and Aviation.

416

:

So, the first iteration was only

in the one hangar Now we're in

417

:

two hangars plus the Avionics Lab.

418

:

And a great opportunity to have pivotal

discussions with great conference

419

:

speakers, but also showcase in the tech

area new innovative products, processes,

420

:

companies, technologies, and really

have a fulsome day of knowledge sharing,

421

:

discussions, exhibitions of the tech

that we're showcasing, and networking.

422

:

And so, yeah, I'd encourage everyone

to put that in their calendars.

423

:

Join us.

424

:

Tickets are on sale now.

425

:

I know Brendan, you've been

with us I think both years and

426

:

I'm sure you'll be there again.

427

:

But it really is a great opportunity.

428

:

I think it compliments the

other events that take place,

429

:

you know, in our industry.

430

:

You know, whether they be organized

by one of our great partners, the

431

:

Ontario Aerospace Council, or up in

Ottawa with the Aerospace Industries

432

:

Association of Canada, or even you

mentioned down in London on Best defence.

433

:

But we're really trying to drive

the conversation, as we've been

434

:

talking about, when it comes to

industry-academic innovation.

435

:

One of the really unique parts for

this year's iteration of DAIR to

436

:

Innovate is we're actually partnering

with a new pan-Canadian organization

437

:

called Strix and their program INSAT.

438

:

And this is you know, something

that's been set up to support

439

:

large scale collaborative R&D.

440

:

Amazing program.

441

:

You know, a lot of DAIR's partners have

also been able to take advantage of

442

:

INSAT funding to keep driving the type

of research projects and opportunities

443

:

that our industry across Canada need.

444

:

And so, you know, we're very excited that

you know, we're embedding a INSAT forum

445

:

within DAIR to Innovate and Michelle Dion

and the team over at the INSAT program.

446

:

And so, you know, a great opportunity

to also learn about that program

447

:

and how we're all working together

with this same goal to drive

448

:

innovation for our ecosystem.

449

:

But it is funny.

450

:

You mentioned, you know, do you

actually think about event planning?

451

:

It does take a lot of effort.

452

:

We're very, very lucky that our

entire team, but really led by um,

453

:

Samantha Glover on our team to really

execute on this event, her and uh,

454

:

and Oz and the rest of the DAIR team.

455

:

And our partner at Centennial,

our hosting partner to be able

456

:

to make use of the space as a

showcase for that space as well.

457

:

And the amazing training

that happens right there.

458

:

So, I would encourage everyone

check it out and and come join

459

:

us for a really amazing day.

460

:

Brendan Sweeney: The best part is you

just go there and you park and you go in.

461

:

There's no code.

462

:

You just park and it's free,

and you walk into the thing.

463

:

Phil Arthurs: Parking is free.

464

:

You just walk in, absolutely.

465

:

I think you know, everyone who might

kind of know the area, we now have right

466

:

next to us a very large concert venue.

467

:

So you always wanna make sure that

your events are not coinciding with

468

:

maybe large scale concerts in Toronto.

469

:

But you're absolutely right.

470

:

It's an amazing location.

471

:

You said the parking, but also just a

really unique opportunity to be part of

472

:

an event that's happening right in the

hangars where the next generation of

473

:

our workforce is training year round.

474

:

Brendan Sweeney: And if you're there

for some reason in early September,

475

:

you can catch not one, but two Deftones

and System of a Down double bills at

476

:

the do, do we call it a popup stadium?

477

:

Phil Arthurs: I think it's there

more permanently, but yeah.

478

:

Brendan Sweeney: So, lots of reasons

to go to Downsview these days.

479

:

So when it comes to the industry, the

aerospace industry or the aerospace with

480

:

space in parentheses industry broadly

conceived in Ontario, where's it going?

481

:

Where's it come from?

482

:

Where's it at today, and where do you see

its trajectory going in the near future?

483

:

Phil Arthurs: Yeah, it's a great question.

484

:

I might actually, you know, take

one step back on that when we talk

485

:

about the trajectory for aerospace

and really aerospace and defence and

486

:

what's kind of happening globally, and

then in Canada, and then in Ontario.

487

:

And, you know, if you take ah couple steps

back, what happened with the pandemic

488

:

and with COVID had a absolute major

impact on our industry, as with everyone

489

:

else, but really globally, aerospace

is picking up and is doing quite well.

490

:

You know, air travel is back in a big way.

491

:

There is a continued push, you know,

globally for still the cleaner,

492

:

more efficient technologies.

493

:

And so there's a lot of

work happening globally.

494

:

A lot more work that needs to be

done, but a lot of work around, you

495

:

know, electric, hybrid electric,

sustainable fuels, those pieces.

496

:

So there's a lot of optimism globally for

the stabilization of commercial aviation.

497

:

The growth of the space

industry as you made mention.

498

:

Growth in business aviation.

499

:

But I think one of the big things

that we've seen over the past year,

500

:

specifically on the defence side

really driving investment in military

501

:

and those types of capabilities.

502

:

And that was actually shown

very much at this summer's

503

:

Paris International Air Show.

504

:

There's always a very significant defence

component to the air show, but it really

505

:

almost took center stage at this year's

show when you look at the investments

506

:

that are happening, globally and now with

announcements on this year and thereafter,

507

:

here in Canada but also across NATO.

508

:

At the same time, there are ongoing

challenges, you know, when it comes

509

:

to the global industry, and then

I'll kind of, you know, how that

510

:

impacts kind of Canada and Ontario.

511

:

You know, the aerospace supply chain is

still fragile, if I can call it that.

512

:

There's surging demand,

but there's bottlenecks.

513

:

There's asks of the supply chain

when it comes to scaling up.

514

:

But things that need to kind of pivot when

it comes to our supply chain globally.

515

:

There's some uncertainty when it comes

to timeframes for the next big aircraft

516

:

programs, a next generation single aisle

aircraft, you know, when that might be

517

:

coming, mid 2030s, 2040, and its impact

when it comes to the supply chain and

518

:

the technologies that are gonna need to

evolve to be a part of a next generation

519

:

single aisle aircraft from Boeing,

from Airbus, maybe a third entrant.

520

:

We'll see.

521

:

But then when we take that down to the

Canadian industry you know, I think

522

:

how our industry can shift to meet

defence priorities, to continue to meet

523

:

our green and sustainability targets.

524

:

How our big players, and we have, you

know, amazing equipment manufacturers,

525

:

the OEMs and the Tier Ones.

526

:

But are there, going back to what we

talked about earlier, how do we, you know,

527

:

have them working with more innovative

smaller companies and those technologies

528

:

that can be on future aircraft.

529

:

So we're known for some of these amazing

components when it comes to global

530

:

aerospace, but how do we maintain and grow

our impact in the global supply chains?

531

:

And that goes for Ontario as well.

532

:

The reason for what DAIR is trying to

do, you know, talking with Natasha at

533

:

the Ontario Aerospace Council and others,

how do we set up our companies to take

534

:

advantage of these growth opportunities?

535

:

They are there when it comes to

increased demand for air travel

536

:

and next generation aircraft as

well as the defence priorities.

537

:

But how do we set our

companies up for success?

538

:

And how can we do this together

to make sure we're not missing

539

:

out on any of these opportunities?

540

:

And how do we get companies to scale up?

541

:

How do we drive more

research partnerships?

542

:

These are the type of things that

ourselves and other organizations are

543

:

trying to support our companies to do.

544

:

Brendan Sweeney: Great.

545

:

In a province that historically

dominated by the automotive

546

:

industry, how do you make sure that

aerospace sees the light of day?

547

:

How do you make sure that the interest

of the aerospace industry, that has

548

:

a profile that fits Ontario very,

very well, needs a lot of engineers,

549

:

we graduated a lot of engineers.

550

:

Aerospace pays very well, very R&D

intensive and that's something that

551

:

in a jurisdiction like Ontario,

especially Southern Ontario that's,

552

:

you know, prized investment relative

to food processing or to other lower

553

:

value manufacturing activities.

554

:

How do you make sure that aerospace stays

on the radar of the Government of Ontario?

555

:

Phil Arthurs: I think it's an

awareness piece for aerospace.

556

:

you know, we're I guess historically not

ones that have bragged about the impact

557

:

that aerospace does have for the Ontario

economy, for the great jobs that it

558

:

does support, directly and indirectly.

559

:

And I think it's continuing to voice that

awareness of aerospace to government,

560

:

to the public, when it comes to how

important this industry is and how

561

:

complimentary it is to the other amazing

industries that our province has.

562

:

You know, how we can work together,

cross-sectorally So how can aerospace

563

:

and automotive find ways to work

together when it comes to different

564

:

technologies, when it comes to

lessons learned back and forth?

565

:

You know, I think it's a continual

process to talk about the impact of

566

:

aerospace nationally and provincially.

567

:

I think we're a great model for

cross-jurisdictional partnerships

568

:

and the way that Ontario and Quebec

and really across the country can

569

:

work together on, aerospace programs.

570

:

We have a great voice in the

provincial association, so the Ontario

571

:

Aerospace Council, in advocating for

aerospace at the provincial level.

572

:

So DAIR for example, you know, working

with them to continue to be more the voice

573

:

for aerospace innovation and be part of

the broader conversation talking about

574

:

aerospace to the government individuals,

at the same time, you know, working with

575

:

the AIC at the national level to continue

advocating and their work in advocating

576

:

for aerospace and an aerospace strategy

as part of what's happenin pan-Canadian.

577

:

So it's an ongoing process.

578

:

I think it's also talking about

the opportunities that youth

579

:

have in aerospace right here.

580

:

Amazing post-secondary programs that they

can take advantage of across the province.

581

:

And then the jobs and the stable

jobs and the very innovative and

582

:

interesting opportunities across the

province when it comes to aerospace.

583

:

And so, how do we promote that as a

career path to the youth and the next

584

:

generation to make sure that they

understand no matter what your interest

585

:

is, no matter what your focus might want

to be aerospace, you know, has a role.

586

:

You know, we need the engineers,

we need the technicians, but we

587

:

also you know, it's the creatives.

588

:

It's the business and across the board.

589

:

And there's amazing opportunities

in our industry right here locally.

590

:

And how do we continue to

promote that across the board?

591

:

Brendan Sweeney: So last question.

592

:

It's been a pretty crazy year so

far, and we expect that back half

593

:

of 2025 will be no less interesting.

594

:

What do you, amidst all the dynamism

of our trade environment, of our

595

:

investment environment, of our

labor force environment, what

596

:

are you most looking forward to?

597

:

Phil Arthurs: Looking forward to?

598

:

Um, I think it'll be a very busy fall.

599

:

I think there is a lot of opportunity

for optimism even amidst a lot

600

:

of the ongoing uncertainty.

601

:

You know, speaking specifically

for aerospace and defence.

602

:

You know, we're very interested

to see how a defence industrial

603

:

strategy evolves federally.

604

:

How we can contribute to that

work ourselves in partnership

605

:

with other organizations.

606

:

You know, how across Canada we can

look at meeting our new kind of defence

607

:

targets and supporting not only the

procurement side of things, but also

608

:

kind of the underlying research,

workforce, and everything that goes

609

:

alongside the defence industrial base.

610

:

So I think there's a lot of

interesting work coming that way.

611

:

I think there's gonna be great

conversations at of course, not just

612

:

DAIR to Innovate, but pan-Canadian

events and how we can work even more

613

:

closely together, Ontario and Quebec,

you know, out east, out west, and how we

614

:

can find more opportunities to kind of

navigate these uncertainties together.

615

:

You know, from DAIR's perspective,

you know, we're quite excited

616

:

about new intakes for our programs.

617

:

So continue to see the innovative ideas,

projects work that the companies are

618

:

doing right here and their impact that can

happen in the supply chain side of things.

619

:

Yeah, so I think there's a lot of optimism

that we can look for over the next number

620

:

of months while we continue to understand

that there's still a lot of our economy

621

:

and our industries that are hurting.

622

:

How we can, uh, work to

support them as well.

623

:

I'd also say, you know, I'm excited

that I, despite what's happening

624

:

at the post-secondary level when it

comes to uncertainty for international

625

:

students, there's still an amazing

demand domestically for students

626

:

taking and coming through aerospace

programs and seeing that continued

627

:

influx of our next generation of

workforce going through the programs

628

:

and hopefully entering the workforce and

delivering for our industry partners.

629

:

One of the other things to keep

an eye on and obviously there's no

630

:

timeline is what will happen with

potential renegotiations of USMCA.

631

:

And you know, right now, of course,

from an aerospace perspective almost

632

:

everything is covered under that.

633

:

I think that is providing clarity,

especially on the aerospace

634

:

side, when it comes to trade.

635

:

But, you know, there's no guarantee

there when we get into renegotiations.

636

:

I know, you're obviously working closely

with the automotive side as well.

637

:

And so I know that's something that our

industry and our companies are keeping

638

:

a very close eye on when it comes to

any changes that could come under USMCA.

639

:

You know, we saw just I guess a

week or two ago, the framework

640

:

agreement between the US and the

EU, which does have aerospace

641

:

defined as kind of, uh, strategic

products and zero for zero tariffs.

642

:

And so, you know, keeping an eye on

what's happening kind of globally in

643

:

these regards because when it comes to

aerospace and trade, changes to USMCA

644

:

could have a big impact moving for

645

:

Brendan Sweeney: Phil, anything else we

haven't covered yet that you wanted to

646

:

make sure to communicate to the audience?

647

:

Phil Arthurs: No, I think this is just

a great opportunity to not just showcase

648

:

what DAIR's doing, but I think what's

happening in the aerospace industry.

649

:

Like I said, great growth opportunities,

but how do we take advantage of that

650

:

as a nation and then here in Ontario?

651

:

And I think it comes down

to that word collaboration.

652

:

You know, we don't wanna miss out

on the opportunities, whether that's

653

:

supply chain opportunities globally,

whether that's defence spending.

654

:

But we need to make sure

we're setting ourselves up.

655

:

We're supporting our companies large

and small, and we're taking advantage

656

:

of that great asset we have when it

comes to academics to take advantage of

657

:

this growth and make sure our industry

continues to punch above its weight and

658

:

support the Ontario and Canadian economy.

659

:

Brendan Sweeney: Great, Phil.

660

:

Thanks so much for coming on

and we'll see you and everybody

661

:

else at DAIR to Innovate.

662

:

Downsview, October 23rd, 2025.

663

:

Be there.

664

:

Phil Arthurs: Absolutely.

665

:

Thank you very much.

666

:

Michelle Samson: New episodes of Making

it in Ontario are published weekly.

667

:

Follow us now on Apple Podcasts or

Spotify to make sure you don't miss any.

668

:

Making it in Ontario is an

initiative of the Trillium Network

669

:

for Advanced Manufacturing.

670

:

It is produced by Storied Places Media.

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