“I love training. I like explaining and answering questions that my clients have and come to me with. It’s helping them structure their system in the way that’s going to give them the end results, the reports that are going to help them run their company more effectively, more efficiently, more profitably.”
Diane Gilson, President, Trainer, Consultant, Developer, and Author at Info Plus Accounting, Inc. and BuildYourNumbers.com
Finances are a scary topic for many business owners, a source of stress and headaches. We don’t exactly learn how to run a small business in high school, so we turn to the Internet and finance professionals. But how can you cut through the confusion and take control of your numbers?
CFO Diane Gilson specializes in empowering small business owners to remain financially secure through growth, market fluctuation, and whatever challenges come along. Listen as Diane shares a CFO’s potential impact on your business and a few tips you can implement immediately.
Topics discussed in this interview:
- Diane’s career path to finance
- Clearing up finances for small businesses
- Leveraging a teaching background to educate contractors
- Subscription-based financial advice
- Diane’s top financial tip for any small business owner
- An expert opinion on QuickBooks
- Choosing new technology carefully
- Risk management as you grow
- Using numbers to set a course for your business
- Is a CFO right for you?
- Rapid fire questions
Visit buildyournumbers.com to discover Diane’s CFO services and see if they are right for your business. Plus, check out free webinars, articles, and resources to better grasp your business finances.
For more Construction Disruption, listen on Apple Podcasts or YouTube
Connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn
This episode was produced by Isaiah Industries, Inc.
Intro/Outro:
:Welcome to the Construction Disruption podcast, where we uncover the future of design, building, and remodeling.
Todd Miller:
:I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries, a manufacturer of specialty metal roofing and other building materials. Today, my co-host is Ethan Young. Mr. Young, how are you today?
Ethan Young:
:I'm doing pretty good, Todd, enjoying this Friday.
Todd Miller:
:Yeah, and you always sound so chill. I don't care if it's a Monday, you still sound chill. You've got an amazing ability. So I got a question for you.
Ethan Young:
:Yeah.
Todd Miller:
:So if you are at an Apple store and you see a crime. Does that make you an I witness?
Ethan Young:
:Ehhh.
Todd Miller:
:Okay, one other question. What happens when a strawberry gets run over while crossing the street? I think you'll get this.
Ethan Young:
:I don't know. I'm just thinking of a red splat. I can't think of a good term.
Todd Miller:
:Traffic jam!
Ethan Young:
:Hey, that's good.
Todd Miller:
:Okay, that's it.
Diane Gilson:
:Are those dad jokes?
Todd Miller:
:Those are dad jokes. We tend to start with those sometimes. So as a reminder to everybody, this episode we are doing our challenge words, where each of us, including our guest, has been given a rather unique word to kind of, we are challenged to work into the conversation as seamlessly as possible. So we encourage our listeners to be listening for bizarre words we might say, which could or could not be our challenge words. I guess they could not be our challenge word, especially if it's me. But anyway, at the end we will reveal how successful we were with our challenge words. So today I'm excited. We want to take a look at how businesses, perhaps just like yours, if you're in the construction or design industry, how can businesses get the most out of their financials? And to help us with that today, our guest is Diane Gilson. Diane's mission in life is helping small to mid-sized businesses transform their accounting nightmares into useful, reliable management and job costing systems. To this end, she works hand in hand with business owners, bookkeepers, accountants and consultants. Based in Ann Arbor, Michigan, Diane is President of Infoplus Accounting. And also buildyournumbers.com. She is the also the author of Accounting with QuickBooks Pro for Remodelers and Builders. And she's been a regular columnist for Remodeling Magazine over the years. So Diane, welcome to Construction Disruption. We're anxious to learn more about the things you do to help contractors and help construction businesses thrive and prosper.
Diane Gilson:
:Well, thanks so much for inviting me. Happy to be here. And you guys do a great show, so I'm flattered and excited to be here today.
Todd Miller:
:Well, we try to have a little fun along the way, too. And so I'm glad you're here. Thank you. So can you start out by telling us a little bit about, you know, what landed you in the business of numbers and helping small and mid-sized business? Curious where you got here, how you got here?
Diane Gilson:
:Well, gosh, you know, I was doing side jobs in order to get through college. And I actually thought I was going to be an English teacher. And I did some student teaching and found out that was definitely not what I wanted to do. The concept was nice, the reality wasn't there. And in fact, I was doing some of those side jobs and having to put together reports. And in the process of doing the reports, I thought, Well, this is kind of fun, this is kind of neat. Maybe I could do this for a living instead of trying to teach English and I could help companies put their numbers together. It seemed like a nice kind of adjunct instead of just running my own company, I could just be there to kind of support somebody and help them. And so that's when I started picking up more and more accounting knowledge and then moved into different types of accounting work over the years. I was, I did bookkeeping work for an honor society for three years, got my CPA by going to work in a CPA firm for several years. And then I worked in banking for 13 years where I did a lot of product line costing.
Todd Miller:
:Okay.
Diane Gilson:
:So and training in the process while I was in the bank. So kind of a step by step process and started my company in 1994.
Todd Miller:
:Wow, wow. Very good. So that's interesting, the English teacher transition. Ethan's, let's say your mom's an English teacher, your brother's an English teacher.
Ethan Young:
:And my brother, yeah.
Todd Miller:
:My, so it's interesting, my sister was an English teacher for one year, and she had kind of the experience that, Oh, I can't do this any longer. So she went to some other areas. That is a special talent, God bless the teachers out there for sure. So I'm curious, you know, with all of that history, then, what kind of drew you toward working with companies in the construction industry?
Diane Gilson:
:Well, you know, when I was in banking and of course, banking is a pretty conservative industry. And I have a tendency to be kind of an idea person. And as I'd be working in banking and I'd have ideas, they didn't always, you know, go a long ways because banking is a little more conservative. And people keep saying, you know, you ought to start your own business. So I'm okay, I can do that. I know how to do accounting, and I'll find a way to finance some clients. And one of the first networking meetings I went to just happened to be a ladies networking group. And one of the women there found out what I was doing. And she says, you know, you need to go over to the Home Builders Association, says, My husband's a builder and I can handle his books for him. But boy, they need a lot of help over there. Not the association, but, you know, the members, they need a lot of help. And so, I went, I joined, I did a tabletop. Within probably two days of joining I got some special permission to go do what they call a tabletop, where you, you know, you set up at a table and say, here's who I am and here's what I do, and picked up my first several clients at that particular meeting.
Todd Miller:
:Wow. Well, it does seem like construction oftentimes is an industry that people end up in because, you know, they started out in it. They were very hands-on and eventually maybe they hit a point where they got older or maybe they got a nicer truck, I don't know, whatever that might be. And they end up in their own business. And so, yeah, not a lot of numbers or accounting experience there typically.
Diane Gilson:
:Yeah, and a lot of people go, Ooh, I can, I'm earning $20 an hour working for for this person. But boy, I could be charging 50 or 75 if I'm out on my own.
Todd Miller:
:Exactly.
Diane Gilson:
:And of course they don't know why they're being paid this lower rate is because the owner's caring for a whole bunch of other costs in the background. So it can be kind of a rude awakening when people start their own businesses and start finding out what are all the moving parts that are involved in running their own business.
Todd Miller:
:Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. So can you go ahead and tell us a little bit about what you currently do for your clients? And I assume that you probably do a wide range of things and somewhat for different clients, but I'm kind of curious what that looks like and you know how your clients are able to engage and get you to help them out.
Diane Gilson:
:Well, we have two or three different sides of the business, actually. Excuse me. The first side that I'll probably touch on here is the consulting side, and that's where I'm working 1 to 1 with people. And of course, starting in, when I started in 1994, we didn't have all the wonderful equivalent of Zoom or GoTo Meeting or that type of thing. So I'd be working with people sometimes over the phone and I'd be trying to guess where they were on their computer and saying, Okay, look in the upper left hand corner, do you see a drop down for file? No, you don't see that. Okay, well, let's try backing up. I mean, it was really difficult doing support in that manner. And most people would come into the office or I would go into their office. But over time, of course, things have changed. And so now I work primarily on a consulting basis using the equivalent of Zoom or GoTo Meeting to work with people 1 to 1, and we look at their books. I can help them change what they're looking at, the structure and so on. So it's a multi-phase approach. We start out and gather a lot of information about their company, find out what they're looking for, what are some critical things, you know, what are their top concerns so that we're sure that we address those on the front end. But it's helping them structure their system in the way that's going to give them the end results, the reports that are going to help them run their company more effectively, more efficiently, more profitably and so on. So it's a discovery process, but yet there's still a structural approach, you know, a standardized kind of way that we move through getting them to where they would like to be.
Todd Miller:
:Sure makes a lot of sense. So I know that you also have developed a number of online classes. And as I recall, I think you said you actually impact more people through those online classes that you do through the one-on-one consulting. Kind of curious, you know, what sort of online classes do you have and how do folks go about, you know, getting so that they can access those?
Diane Gilson:
:Well, this all came about because at one point I was having lunch with the management consultants and I said, you know, it's just so hard to find people to come in and help me do what I do on the consulting side. And he said, Well, you know what you need to do? You need to clone yourself. But it's pretty hard to clone yourself into somebody else's brain. And so that was when I started looking at the concept of doing these recorded types of classes. And so what I did was I took the topics that I had been teaching 1 to 1 with clients on a consulting basis, got them, and they were all pretty well organized because I had an approach when I was working with people, and then I started building classes around that. And started out with, you know, basics and then just kind of moved up the line in terms of, okay, so here's the basic part of doing something, but then here's a more advanced way of doing it and the most furthest advanced kind of a top-down approach. So the idea was that, you know, rather than me teaching everybody personally how to enter a bill, for instance, why not get that into a class and make sure I did it in a nice, in-depth way, okay, so that it would cover whatever level of knowledge somebody had to work with. And plus, the other thing is, is I would find lots of times if I was training somebody, I mean, they couldn't take notes fast enough. Oh, I remember everything that I had trained, whereas in a video they could stop it and they could go back. And of course if I was live with them, they could stop and ask me questions. But I don't know about you. But sometimes if I learn something now it's and it all seems to make sense at the time. But three days later I go, gosh, you know, what was what was the exact step I have to follow? And if I can just go back and look at a video, I'm okay. It gives me time to absorb and so on.
Ethan Young:
:I'll say, What kind of response have you gotten for people on this?
Diane Gilson:
:We generally do what we call exit interviews. So we have people that stay in the classes for two, three years in our subscription. And I've even had people in there much longer than that. We always do an exit interview and we find that people are very pleased with their learning process and so we give them enough variety at enough different levels so that whether they're a beginner or whether they're, you know, mid level or advanced. We've got something out there that meets their needs so they can either start at a basic level and kind of move their way up, or maybe they have some pretty good experience, know their way around but they need some specialty aspects to learn some specialty aspects.
Todd Miller:
:So that is subscription-based. So someone wouldn't necessarily have to be involved in one-on-one consulting with you in order to be on the subscription side. Is that correct?
Diane Gilson:
:That's correct. And it's it's more cost-effective, of course, for them to do that than to work with me 1 to 1.
Todd Miller:
:Yeah.
Diane Gilson:
:So, I mean, there are pros and cons to both sides, but we do have different levels as well. One of our, we have a what we call a VIP level that gives them an hour a month with me directly and in 1 to 1 support. So they can either go straight video training along with all the support materials that go along with that or if they want to get into the VIP program, then in addition to a bunch of additional bonuses and additional materials that we offer, they also can set up once, once a month, up to an hour to work with with me, or we're bringing another pro advisor on board. So but they'll get expert help individualized to them as well. So we try to give people a nice menu of choices.
Todd Miller:
:Sure. What's the website for for the subscription-based end of things? How can folks learn more?
Diane Gilson:
:Yeah, our website is buildyournumbers.com and we do have on that site you'll find it's five, six products out there. One of those of course, is we call it the Construction Accounting and Management Program. So the acronym that we use around here is CAMP. And people who are in the program are CAMPers. And of course we can do different plays off the word camp, but that's the way we generally refer to it. And then we do have some other support products that I've developed over the years. Finding out that people needed to know, for instance, what their fully burdened labor rate is, because that's, you know, people are not paid just their hourly rate or payroll taxes. But there are a lot of other costs that go into having your employees. So I developed a product for that, we've also got a pre-done template. So, you know, we have a variety of other support products that are available to help people do the job costing for, and that's really what we're known for, is job costing.
Todd Miller:
:Gotcha. So talking about that and building costs and things, so let's say, you know, someone comes to you and they haven't started their business. They're saying, I want to start a home remodeling company or something. Maybe it's accounting related, maybe it's not. But what's your top advice to them as they start that business to make sure they get started out on the right foot?
Diane Gilson:
:So I think the first really big thing is don't backburner your numbers, okay. When you start a business, you're really excited about what you're going to do, who you're going to do it for, the quality of the product, how everything's going to work. And then you go, Well, I'll just deal with the numbers later, okay. And the thing is, is you can backburner your numbers, but sooner or later the fire lights underneath those numbers. And so, if you can just do your best to start tracking your numbers and I'd suggest using one of the more inexpensive software programs that are out there, QuickBooks is one of them. And start trying to track your numbers in there and then, of course, learn as you go and what do those numbers mean and how are they going to impact your business and pay attention to what you're seeing in those numbers.
Todd Miller:
:So what is, do you think, some of the most important information for someone to be watching, especially right out of the gate in regards to their numbers?
Diane Gilson:
:Well, one of the things is, is to be really careful and don't take on too much overhead right on the front end. You know, you don't go out rent a gorgeous office right up front, do whatever you can to keep your overhead as low as possible while you're getting things up and running and becoming profitable as you're putting your numbers together. Also understanding the difference between what we call cost of goods and QuickBooks or production costs, and differentiating those costs from the other kinds of costs for running a business. So, for instance, the payroll taxes for people who are doing direct labor for you are a different type of costs than the payroll taxes for your administrative assistant. The cost of insurance, okay, the cost of insurance for your production process should be located up in the cost of goods sold area rather than down in the company overhead. So differentiating those costs so that you can see your income and then your cost of production and then be able to see what's called the gross profit, which is income minus cost of production, is giving you your gross profit number, okay. That is very important because that's what you're earning from your activities. Now, of course, the company, all the other company costs to keep your company running are going to come off as well to get to your bottom line. But if you don't have enough gross profit from the jobs that you're performing, you're certainly not going to have enough to cover all those other company expenses. So you really want to be watching your gross profit numbers. You want to be watching your gross profit percentages and then using the information from your job costing to improve what's going on in your company and make sure you're pricing properly.
Ethan Young:
:Yeah, I wanted to touch on and you mentioned QuickBooks a couple of times and I was a little bit familiar with it. My stepdad runs a small business, so I've seen him on it and stuff and I looked it up. I didn't know it's been around for almost 40 years now, but could you touch on kind of what are the strengths and weaknesses you see with QuickBooks for small and mid-sized businesses?
Diane Gilson:
:Yeah. So actually, QuickBooks was preceded by a program called Quicken, and I used to do my personal books in Quicken, back even when I was doing other, I was in banking. And then I heard about QuickBooks and was getting ready to start my business. And they pretty much had kind of launched in about probably about 92, somewhere in that area. And I actually worked for one company who was in Quicken and wanted me to do all their business books in Quicken, and I expended about $3,000 worth of labor trying to make Quicken do what QuickBooks already did. And I said, Nope, not going to make that mistake again. And the people that I worked with, I said, you know, if you want to do your business accounting, you need to be using something like QuickBooks. Now, when I started my company, I picked up a different package that a lot of accountants suggested, spent about $5,000 on it and spent a couple of days and and that was on the day when you had to pull the floppy disks out. You put one floppy disk in and it would load up. And, you know, I'm starting to sound like a dinosaur here.
Todd Miller:
:I remember those days well.
Diane Gilson:
:You know, after a couple days of fighting with it, and I had actually done some work for some friends of mine the year before in QuickBooks, and I went nuts. I've got two new clients. I don't have time to fiddle around with this other software because I couldn't get support, etc. So we went ahead and started working in QuickBooks and never looked back. It was just so easy to handle and it was intuitive for me as an accountant. Now it's not always intuitive for everybody who doesn't know accounting at all, but I found it to be pretty easy to use. You could drag and drop accounts, you could easily correct any errors. I mean, there were just a lot of really user-friendly aspects to it that I didn't see in many a lot of the other packages that were out there.
Speaker:
:Gotcha.
Speaker:
:And we could do job costing in it. That was huge. And that was really what the clients that I had started working with wanted, was the job costing. And it's not terribly expensive, You know, that's the other thing. You know, you're not going to go out and pay, you know, 5, 10, $20,000 for for a package.
Todd Miller:
:So kind of changing gears a tiny bit here, do you think? I mean, you know, in in your history working with businesses, small, mid-sized businesses, do you think the challenges they are facing are increasing right now or changing in any ways? Or what can you tell us about that?
Diane Gilson:
:Yeah, I think there are a lot of things changing right now. I'd say one of the things, of course, I mean, everybody is pretty much familiar with the supply chain issues and changing prices. You know, it's pretty hard to know exactly where prices are going to be from one minute to the next. And of course, a lot of my clients, I counsel them, if you're putting an estimate out there, you need to put a limited time on it. You know, say this estimate is good for 30 days or two weeks, whatever you think, as long as you can predict what what your costs are going to be. But in addition to that, technology, I think is the biggest risk factor as well as opportunity for people to start using technology in new ways. And of course, running a construction business is not a simple process. There are a lot of moving parts already in place. And now the new technology pieces are coming into play, just many, many of them. And of course, it's a challenge to sort out which things are going to be useful, which things are going to be valuable, which things are going to be worth your investments, not so much as the cost of the software, because usually it's not too horrible, but a lot of the cost has to do with learning how to use it. And then how do you integrate all the pieces and parts together. And it's pretty easy to get, you know, ten, twelve systems running in different places that aren't really talking to each other. And then, of course, a lot of the salespeople say, Oh, well, this integrates with this other package. And then you find out that the integration process itself is a big challenge. So, I'd say that's one of the big things too, to keep with it.
Ethan Young:
:The accrual of all those systems or that build up and stuff, trying to talk to each other. And we've definitely run into that a couple of times as well.
Diane Gilson:
:It's not always like peanut butter and chocolate. It doesn't always fit together.
Todd Miller:
:Don't always go together, I hear you. Well, you know, it's interesting. I kind of joked about this going back a few years ago, probably shortly before COVID. You know, I occasionally go to various construction trade shows and, you know, I suddenly noticed they didn't look like construction people anymore. It looked like a bunch of hipsters there selling different technology and things. And, you know, I immediately started kind of cautioning companies, you know, don't go chasing every bright and shiny thing that comes along because you may find that, you know, it's the cost of even implementing it and integrating it in your business exceeds what you're going to get out of it. So, yeah, I hear you.
Diane Gilson:
:You want to check around. Talk to other people that have used it, use it on a test basis. I always counsel people, Make sure that you get at least a 30-day trial version, if not 60. Because 30 days flies by pretty darn fast. And make sure that you think it's really going to work well for you before you jump into the deep end of the pool. You know, entrepreneurs are, all of us entrepreneurs are optimistic, forward thinking. We like those new shiny objects that go, Oh, that's cool. They told me to do this and that and come back and hand it off to somebody to implement it. It's not always quite that easy.
Todd Miller:
:That's interesting though, because yeah, I find the same thing, most entrepreneurs and business owners, I mean, to do what they do, they've got to be kind of optimistic people. And you're right, it's also easy for us to kind of fool ourselves into chasing the latest shiny object too. So very, very good advice.
Diane Gilson:
:I'm and I'm right there with all this. We're all...
Todd Miller:
:Yeah, it's good advice.
Diane Gilson:
:We have certain characteristics in common.
Todd Miller:
:Do you think you know as as time has gone on, I mean, and I don't even know how to ask this question, Diane, but I'm just kind of grasping, It seems to me like the stakes keep getting a little bit higher, that it's a little bit easier for a small mistake to drive you into a really bad place financially than it used to be. It seemed like, okay, I can stub my toe and I can recover. Do you sense that at all the you know, just the stakes are higher and it's a little harder to recover if you do mess up?
Diane Gilson:
:Oh, there's always the legal aspect. Those things are lurking in the corner and there are always gremlins that we can't foresee. I, I think one of the big things that can trip people up is they begin to believe that if they're just bigger, they're going to make more money.
Todd Miller:
:Ooh.
Diane Gilson:
:Unfortunately, it can actually work the other way around. Excuse me. It can work the other way around because when you get bigger, you take on another layer of operating overhead, of complexity, more people, more risk. The more jobs you take on, the more risk you take on to to run into that client from hell. So those are all things. It's easy to grow broke. That particular term, once I heard it, I went, Oh, yeah, I know exactly what they're talking about. And in fact, the best way to keep from stubbing your toe on those things is to be watching your numbers, watch your estimate versus actuals. Make sure that you're making the right kind of profit on your individual jobs, because if you have a job where you lose $5,000, okay, and you have a job where you make $5,000, I'll just use those little numbers. Okay. In fact, for many companies, the numbers are much bigger. But guess what? You just spent all that time breaking even. I mean, you could have just gone to work for somebody else. And we're kind of talking about smaller companies, but this scales as well. So just because you're making a certain amount at a million and you say, well, if I could make 2 million, I could make twice as much. That's really not the case because you're operating in a different environment. And so being able to anticipate, think your way through, project your numbers, know your numbers to start out with. And unfortunately, a lot of folks don't know their numbers well.
Todd Miller:
:And I think, too, as you grow, you're into a whole new level of leadership and management that some folks are not really well prepared for necessarily either. And you're right. That's a fallacy, thinking that bigger is always going to be better and that it's going to be linear in terms of, you know, what your profit increase might be or something.
Diane Gilson:
:You know, and we do. I've got a couple of webinars where we go through and say, okay, look, if you can look at your numbers and you're a $1,000,000 company and you look at your numbers and you can make this tweak to the cost, okay, a fairly small tweak to your cost because you know what's going on. Okay, now you're increasing your gross profit. And if you understand your business and you're more effective and more efficient, you likely can raise your prices just a little bit. And it's amazing the difference that you could make on your bottom line by just paying attention to your numbers, modifying your operations, and continuing to move forward. The multiples of how well you can improve your profits are much higher than when you start to grow, because then also when you start to grow, you've got a lot of extra expenses, like you said, the layers of management, legal costs, I mean, just administrative costs in the background and so on. So yeah, different, different animals as you start getting bigger, you have a different animal to, to work with.
Todd Miller:
:Yeah. Good, good insight. So are most of your client relationships, you know, long term or do they tend to be more where you get them to a place where they can kind of handle it on their own or, you know, are they longer term? And do those relationships change over time in terms of what they're looking to you for?
Diane Gilson:
:Yeah. So my goal, generally speaking, when I start working with people is, A, get their books cleaned up, okay? Because lots of times they've got a mess, they can't tell what's going on. And we try to make sure that we kind of get everything back on an even keel and then we get the right structure in place and then make sure that they understand how to use the system. Okay, So we've got a new system, a new structure for them. How do they use it? And then how do they check and make sure that their numbers are accurate. So if we can get those three pieces in place, how is your structure, your training and then double checking for accuracy? They should be pretty good to go on their own, assuming they're watching their reports and so on. Now, there are various other aspects around the edges, like, for instance, let's say they want to put purchase orders in place or they want to accept credit cards or they want to, you know, they want to make tweaks or changes to the business, then lots of times they'll come back. So my goal is to get them to fly on their own. To the level that they want to, because not everybody's ready to put all of the aspects of a job costing system in place, but we want to get them to where they're comfortable moving forward with the level of detail that they're comfortable with. But then over time they start looking at their numbers and they start thinking about things and they start getting into, Well, what if or maybe it's time for us to put purchase orders in place and then they'll come back and then we'll help them take care of that. Or maybe they take on inventory and they want to do something more with inventory. But, and I do have some clients that just like me to check over the books at the end of the year or once or twice during the year, they'll say, Hey, I've got a couple questions. So from a consulting standpoint, I, I tell people like, okay, you're all flying, you've left the nest, you're out flying on your own, but the nest is still here. If you want to come back, you know, we're here. We're not going to abandon you like that.
Todd Miller:
:So you can kind of grow with the client and go in and out as they need you during their pathway to success and growth. That's great.
Diane Gilson:
:Exactly. And sometimes they'll start another company or once in a while I'll have worked with a bookkeeper, and that bookkeeper moves on to a different company and will get in touch with us and say, Hey, I just I started with this company and they need you. So, yeah.
Todd Miller:
:So are there any success stories you can share with us in terms of clients that you've had and you know where you've seen dramatic changes in their businesses once they start to get control of and understand their numbers?
Diane Gilson:
:Yeah, well, probably. I mean, in many cases people pick up and they're doing, they're picking up one piece. Maybe they're looking at their estimate versus actual reports and they're saying, okay, I can move into getting this job back under control before it totally goes in the toilet. Okay. But and then also maybe they they're going to change their procedures based on what they learn. So there are a lot of smaller tweaks like that where they're continuing, it's a feedback system. So from the standpoint if we can get them a good feedback loop and they're continually improving their operations, that's definitely a success. But what I kind of like to talk about it was I had a client who was had both commercial and residential customers. And when we started splitting things out, because we can do all sorts of, once your numbers are in good shape, you can do all sorts of analytics. And he found out that he had about a 10% gap in gross profit between his residential and his commercial customers. He was making a lot more, in his case, on residential and commercial because he didn't have to bid against everybody.
Todd Miller:
:Sure.
Diane Gilson:
:And he changed, he totally changed his business model. He just quit going after commercial customers and went with that much higher gross profit revenue residential side. And so, I mean, people can change the long term trajectory of their companies or they can choose to do niche, but once they can see the information, then they're on a much better position to change the direction of their company. So and a number of my client, I've seen them grow over the years and it's the ones that are paying attention.
Todd Miller:
:Yeah, well, that's interesting because I think a lot of construction companies do kind of do that blind. You know, they may do some residential, some commercial, some religious facilities or whatever it might be, and yet they don't really break that out and say, okay, where is my most profitable niche here and how do I just kind of focus on that? So, good advice. So I understand you're kind of from a previous conversation I had, Diane, that you're kind of changing your business a bit to help more companies more in that in that Chief Financial Officer, CFO role as well as keep the other work you're doing going. Can you tell us a little bit about what those changes are coming up?
Diane Gilson:
:You know, well, we're, you know, continually evolving, reacting to what other people are looking for. And of course, over the years, as I've worked with people just on the financial side and that, okay, you're all set to go fly on your own, I have observed going back and lots of times the company owners aren't just staying. Maybe their numbers are good and they're going, Oh yeah, numbers are good. But it's it's really more about helping them use the numbers to do more with their business. So there's hardly anybody out there for many, many years doing what I was doing in terms of just helping people get their numbers straight. And so I kind of get people up and flying on their own. And then I'd start with the next person that needed help. But I've had several people say, Hey, you know, you need to stay with these people and help them use their numbers in better ways. Additionally, over the years, I found that there are other aspects, you know, maybe people need that they just don't have the sales leads coming in that they need or maybe they have HR issues or they're having trouble getting new people in the business. Or maybe they're thinking about scaling their business back so that they can live more of a semi-retired lifestyle. I mean, there are so many different things that company owners don't have anybody to talk to about that. You know, they've got a lot maybe swirling around in their head. And so the idea of doing the CFO type work is to help them. Determine where they want to go and what are the most important things they need to be working on to get there. And the numbers are definitely part of it. But there is more to a company than than just the numbers. You know, this it's an entity with many different aspects. And I have worked in that arena kind of on the side as I worked with people as I hear things okay. And I just felt I could over time become more helpful to people by operating in a bit of a higher level with them. So that's my plan is to move forward on that side and act in more of a CFO advisory capacity, not giving advice, but helping them decide where they want to go and how they're going to get there.
Todd Miller:
:You know, I think we do operate in an industry that has, right now we have a lot of folks who are kind of business owners in their forties and fifties, and they really are looking for that advice of what does this next stage look like? You know, maybe my business has always been kind of shaped like a rhombus in the past, and now I want to shape it like a circle or something. I don't know. But I think that that's part of the age thing that's going on in our industry right now. And and it leads to a whole other discussion of are we doing a good job of bringing in younger people into our industry? And that's a whole different discussion. But I love providing that your company and you providing that higher level of management advice for people as they approach that stage in life perhaps.
Diane Gilson:
:And you know, there are a lot of industries where having a CFO is kind of normal.
Todd Miller:
:Right.
Diane Gilson:
:There are very few construction companies out there that even think about a CFO.
Todd Miller:
:Yep.
Diane Gilson:
:They don't even know what a CFO does. And or if you're going to look at a full time CFO, they're very expensive. And so I'm looking to be able to provide, you know, some of the benefits of having a CFO, but without having to bring somebody on full time.And elevate people's ideas of, you know, what some of that financial insights and oversight could do for them.
Todd Miller:
:Well, this has been very informative, Diane. Thank you. We're kind of close to the wrapping up, sort of what we call the business end of things. Is there anything we haven't covered today that you definitely like to share with our audience?
Diane Gilson:
:Boy, I think we've covered a lot of the waterfront, of course. I mean, I love this side of the business, I love training. I like explaining and answering questions that my clients have and come to me with. I say probably the biggest oversight is try to understand and use your financials. A little side benefit is here that lots of times people, when they first come to me and they go, You know, I'm not an accountant, I don't have any idea what I'm looking at. And I said, okay, well, let's take a look at your reports. And I go, Well, you know what? I can't tell anything either, this is a mess. No wonder you don't understand it. The reality is, is if things are laid out properly, you should be able to understand. You should be able to look at a balance sheet and understands, you know, what, what your assets are, what your liabilities are, and be able to believe the numbers. You should be able to look at a profit loss report and understand the numbers and you should be able to look at an estimate versus actual report and know what that means and have it be meaningful for you. And it isn't, it's not rocket science. If things are set up right for you, you should be able to understand. So just taking the time, you know, if in the first year you say, I'm going to conquer this. Because a lot of people are just afraid to even look at the numbers, but just say, I'm going to the first year, I'm going to do this. I'm going to invest 20 hours, which is not very long. You know, that's less than half an hour a week and I'm going to spend 20 hours looking at my numbers. And trying to understand, you know, find some courses, figure them out. So at least I know what I'm looking at. So don't just count on somebody else to figure it out for you. Because, yeah, there's, there are some people it'll figure it out for you. And sometimes they are fraudulent people.
Todd Miller:
:Yeah.
Diane Gilson:
:Who will come in and figure things out. So it's worth it to stay on top of your numbers.
Todd Miller:
:And I've seen that more than once, you know, where someone just kind of hit the point where their business was kind of out of control and, you know, they bring somebody in and that person was strictly there to try to snooker them and get what they could out of it and then leave. And so, yeah, that's sad when that happens. So I think that's perfect advice. And I love how your business is built around, you know, helping people no matter where their stage are. And, you know, even with the online courses you have, you have a variety of things to help people to that level of success. And, you know, I think the reality is a lot of businesses that don't make it in our industry are ones that never get out of thinking of themselves as the nail-banger and never really start to think about the management and leadership of their company. So I love the support that you're offering, that's great.
Diane Gilson:
:Well, thank you.
Todd Miller:
:So before we close out, I do have to ask you if you'd like to participate in something we call our rapid fire questions. We need a sound effect for that.
Ethan Young:
:Yeah, we'll get that.
Diane Gilson:
:Drum roll.
Todd Miller:
:These are seven questions. Some may be serious, some a little more silly. All you gotta do is give a quick answer. And of course, you have no idea what we're about to ask. So are you up to the challenge?
Diane Gilson:
:Well, I'll give it a shot. Okay. We'll see where we end up.
Todd Miller:
:What is that? Nothing ventured, nothing gained, I guess.
Diane Gilson:
:Yeah, exactly.
Todd Miller:
:Okay, well, we will alternate asking questions. I will let Ethan ask the first question.
Ethan Young:
:Okay, okay. Question one. What's your bucket list vacation?
Diane Gilson:
:New Zealand. I'd love to go spend a couple of weeks in a car going from one end of New Zealand to the other end of New Zealand. I've seen such gorgeous pictures. I would just love to do that.
Todd Miller:
:It'd be awesome. Question number two, Do you have a hidden talent? Something most people would not know that you can do or do.
Diane Gilson:
:Well, I have one that I did some time ago. I used to be a radio disc jockey.
Todd Miller:
:Seriously?
Diane Gilson:
:Yeah.
Todd Miller:
:I kept thinking, Man, she is polished in her speech and everything. That explains a lot of it.
Diane Gilson:
:I used to sell Olan Mills Club plans. I don't know if you're familiar with Olan Mills, but they're a photography studio, and part of my getting through school routine was we'd set up in different cities and I'd hire people. We'd be in a, you know, a funky old office building and set up card tables and we'd phone through the area. And I, the way I made myself do that, because phone sales is now a lot of fun is I would say, okay, I'm going to be I'm going to be practicing for being on the radio. And no matter how awful somebody was, I'm just going to be sweet and charming and really nice to them and then go on to the next one. And that was my practice for being a radio disc jockey. And I did top 40 and what was called at the time underground. So top 40 until 9 p.m. and from nine till till midnight I do underground music.
Todd Miller:
:So there is a whole side to Diane I never would have imagined, I love this.
Diane Gilson:
:Underground, think Jefferson Airplane, that era.
Todd Miller:
:Good stuff, good stuff.
Ethan Young:
:Alrighty, question three. What would you like to be remembered for?
Diane Gilson:
:I'd like to be remembered for having a, deeply caring for my clients, because I really do.
Todd Miller:
:Wow.
Diane Gilson:
:And, you know, sometimes I work with a client. I spend a lot of time with them, and I get to know them, and then they go off, you know, they do fly the nest, and then I don't hear from them. And I'm always wondering, you know, because I just feel like I've lost a friend, because I do develop friendships with my clients. And I think sometimes they think of me as, Oh, I'm just a service provider. And but yeah, I really care, I really care a lot about the people I work with. That's what I'd like to be remembered for.
Todd Miller:
:Sounds like you have a vested interest in their success and yeah, that's cool. Good stuff. So next question, is there any product you have purchased that was truly life changing for you, something that was a game-changer, disruptive for you? Anything come to mind?
Diane Gilson:
:Yeah. Snagit.
Todd Miller:
:Snagit? What's a Snagit?
Diane Gilson:
:Snagit is a software program from TechSmith, and it's a screen capture program that I use probably ten times a day minimum. And because I do procedures and I do marketing and I do things for for our own team. I say, Oh, take a look at this. And it's just a really fast screen capture program, very easy to copy and paste into emails. You can also record with it. You can do all sorts of, it's not up to like Photoshop or anything like that, but I can manipulate it in a lot of different ways, you know, add arrows and etc.. So it's a software that I use all the time and I'm just going, if I didn't have this software, I would feel really awful.
Todd Miller:
:Wow.
Diane Gilson:
:I use it a lot.
Todd Miller:
:So is that S-N-A-G-I-T?
Diane Gilson:
:Uh huh. Just like it sounds. This is from a company called TechSmith. TechSmith also creates Camtasia, which is a well-known recording program. So and they're just up the street from, as I say, up the street, but they're about an hour away from us here in Michigan, the company.
Todd Miller:
:Very cool because my best way of doing screen shots usually is to pull out my phone and literally take a picture of my screen.
Diane Gilson:
:I'll tell you what, I think Snagit is about $50. It's worth; I'd pay ten times that for it.
Todd Miller:
:I got to check this out, will do.
Diane Gilson:
:Okay.
Ethan Young:
:Alrighty, next question. What's your favorite holiday?
Diane Gilson:
:Anyone where I can stay home and be quiet and not have to entertain anybody else. It sounds really awful, I know.
Todd Miller:
:No it doesn't.
Diane Gilson:
:I'll tell you what, I am so busy all the time that a holiday where I don't have to go anywhere or do anything and just veg and stay in my jammies. And I'm just happy with whatever that holiday may be.
Todd Miller:
:Cool. Well, several years ago here at work, we started giving people their birthday off as a holiday. And I hope that's how a lot of them use that, is just for some some undivided downtime.
Diane Gilson:
:Boy, we all need that. Company owners, I think that's one thing that we often don't do enough of for ourselves, is give us some of that mental break time. And you know, you always come back. You always come back better when you have a little time away.
Todd Miller:
:I hear you. So our next question, next to last. This is one of our favorites. If you had to eat a crayon, what color of crayon would you choose to eat?
Diane Gilson:
:Well, there are two sides. There's my favorite color, but my favorite color is burgundy. But that would leave me looking pretty Halloween-ish, I think. If I was being practical, I'd pick white, you know, so that nobody would know that I had eaten a crayon. So there you go.
Todd Miller:
:That's, we've had that answer before.
Ethan Young:
:Alright, last one. What's a, I guess. What's a favorite teacher you have or what's a memory you have of a favorite teacher?
Diane Gilson:
:Um, I had an accounting teacher whose advice I've taken several times. Well, actually, there's two. But the primary piece of advice was do the easy part first. When you're doing any kind of a complicated accounting thing, he said, Do the easy pieces first and then that will help you resolve the hard pieces. Okay, So get those out of the way and then you can go after what's left and sometimes what you've already taken care of first. And then the other one I'll throw in is fun. It was a tax teacher and he said, You know, a lot of people can get away with a lot of stuff on their taxes, but you know where they get tripped up. It's the big pig theory, when people start trying to get away with too much, they're going to get caught. So I always, those two pieces of advice have stayed with me for many, many years.
Todd Miller:
:So good stuff. Well, Diane, this has been a real pleasure. Some great insight for folks in the construction industry. And I know this can be very helpful to our audience members. So for folks who want to get in touch with you, curious how they can mostly easily do that. One thing I want to point out, Diane has something incredibly cool. She has an assistant that she calls her air traffic controller. And I got to tell you, there is nothing cooler I've ever heard than that. So anyway, how can folks get in touch with you if they'd like?
Diane Gilson:
:Well, I'll tell you what, Probably the easiest way is to come to our site called buildyournumbers.com and kind of goes along with the construction industry and and numbers so hopefully people can remember buildyournumbers.com. And then of course, on that site we have you know contact us, telephone numbers, lots of free articles that I've written, many free giveaways, webinars that are out there, videos. So we have lots of free stuff available for people as well as products that are helpful for them.
Todd Miller:
:Very cool.
Diane Gilson:
:It's the best way to get in touch and you know, if you want to talk to us, you'll probably initially talk to our air traffic controller.
Todd Miller:
:I love it. Well, we'll have your contact information in our show notes as well. So, challenge words.
Ethan Young:
:Yeah.
Todd Miller:
:Diane, your challenge words you had to work in was?
Diane Gilson:
:Chocolate.
Todd Miller:
:And you worked it in really well.
Ethan Young:
:She did.
Todd Miller:
:I dont't think anyone noticed that. I had to work in rhombus, which I was sweating, and I worked it in really poorly. But I got it.
Ethan Young:
:Yeah, it was alright.
Diane Gilson:
:You did a good job of it, you know?
Todd Miller:
:Ethan, I don't know if you got your word in or not. I'm sure you did.
Ethan Young:
:I did. My word was accrual. And mine was actually right before Diane, so just a.
Todd Miller:
:Okay.
Ethan Young:
:Just a sentence or two ahead of her.
Diane Gilson:
:Ethan, using his word, reminded me that I was supposed to use my word. So, yeah, pretty close to each other in the recording.
Todd Miller:
:Well, you guys were both very smooth on it, so kudos to you. Great job.
Diane Gilson:
:That was fun.
Todd Miller:
:Diane, thanks so much. This has been a pleasure. Great to know you. And I do hope that some of our audience members will reach out to you and get to know you as well.
Diane Gilson:
:Okay.
Todd Miller:
:Thank you very much for being here.
Diane Gilson:
:Oh, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much. And such great hosts. And so.
Ethan Young:
:Thank you.
Diane Gilson:
:So interesting, so thanks.
Todd Miller:
:Very good. Well, and I want to thank our audience for tuning in to this episode of Construction Disruption with Diane Gilson of Infoplus Accounting and buildyournumbers.com. So please, always watch for future episodes of our podcast. We're always blessed by having great guests. Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or YouTube. Until the next time we're together, though, keep on disrupting, keep on challenging yourself and designers and builders and remodelers to better ways of doing things. And along the way, don't forget to have a positive impact on the people you that you interact with. So God bless, take care. This is Isaiah Industries signing off until the next episode of Construction Disruption.
Todd Miller:
:Intro/Outro: This podcast is produced by Isaiah Industries, a manufacturer of specialty metal roofing and other building products.