Do you know how to identify a toxic work environment? Have you worked in a toxic work environment and did it take a toll on your self-worth? A toxic work environment is not the ideal situation at all and still, many women find themselves in one. Terry and I have a conversation about this topic and I’m sure this conversation will help you if you’re someone who finds yourself in an environment like that.

In this episode, Terry and I talk about ways you can deal with different types of toxic environments (narcissistic bosses, preferential treatment, etc.), and as you listen to this conversation, you will start to realize the similarities between a toxic work environment and a toxic relationship.

HERE ARE 3 TIPS TO HELP YOU ON YOUR ROAD TO SELF-EMPOWERMENT

1. Remind yourself of the things that you’ve achieved in your career.
2. Make sure that you take care of yourself when you get home from work as much as you can.
3. Spend some time thinking about what are the options that you have.

CONNECT WITH TERRY MCDOUGALL

• Website: https://www.terrybmcdougall.com
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terrybmcdougall
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/terrybmcdougall
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/i_am_coach_terry
• Book: https://www.tinyurl.com/gameofworkbook
• Marketing Mambo Podcast: https://www.marketingmambo.net
• Game of Work Podcast: https://gameofworkpodcast.com

ARE YOU OR IS SOMEONE YOU KNOW CARRYING THE HEAVY EMOTIONAL BAGGAGE OF A DIVORCE? A WOMAN’S EMPOWERMENT JOURNEY CAN BE STOPPED DEAD IN ITS TRACKS BY DIVORCE, BUT THERE IS A SOLUTION. IT IS POSSIBLE TO TRANSFORM YOUR LIFE AND START YOUR OWN EMOTIONAL RECOVERY.  I WAS ABLE TO, AND YOU CAN TOO!

Curious to know where you are? To know what the answer is? You have to find the place to begin. Your first step is to assess where you are. 

Use this free tool to find out where you are and what’s holding you back from a new and exciting life after divorce. 

Click here: https://quiz.tryinteract.com/#/636dab1221d28a0016112d45

Empowerment should be a goal for all women, not just those who have been through divorce. The Her Self Expression Podcast provides critical information and actionable steps to help you on your journey, whether you’ve been divorced or not. 

In addition to this episode, you can listen to all of our episodes at https://herselfexpression.com/podcast

JOIN THESE TWO COMMUNITIES ON FACEBOOK AND LINKEDIN TO FIND OTHER WOMEN WHO YOU CAN CONNECT WITH, SHARE, AND GROW TOGETHER, 

Her Self Expression Sisterhood on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/groups/herselfexpressionsisterhood

Her Self Expression Network on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/groups/14119012/

WANT TO CONNECT WITH BEVERLY PRICE FOR A PATH TO A BETTER LIFE? 

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If you'd like to move from self-loathing to self-love, as Beverly did, stay tuned for today's episode that is Sure to help you take on the world. And now here is Beverly. Enjoy the show. 


If you'd like to work with me, you can contact me at her self-expression dot com. I'm also the host of this podcast called Her Self-Expression. Research shows that four out of every five. Struggle with their self-image and self-confidence. Her self-expression provides knowledge, support, and insight to help women on their journey to self-empowerment on the inside and out so they can take on the world. 


Today, I have these questions for you to think about. Do you know how to realize a toxic work environment? Have you worked in a toxic work environment and did it take a toll on your self-worth? Well, my guest today is Terry McDougal. Terry is going to help us learn about a subject that many women deal with, and that's toxic leaders in the workplace. 


Terry is an executive and career coach, speaker and bestselling author of Winning the Game of Work Career Happiness, and. On your own terms, how wonderful she works with managers, executives, and professionals who want to draw upon their greatest, most authentic abilities to positively impact their organizations. 


She supports clients who are creating change. Driving innovation and navigating transitions. Terry relies on both her formal training as a coach and firsthand experience as a corporate leader to support her clients as they work through their goals. After 30 years of corporate business experience, 15 of which were in senior management roles, Terry chose to become a coach and concentrate on helping leaders step fully into their potential to lead satisfying careers. 


Hi, Terry. It's so great to have you here. Thank you so much for being my guest today, 


[00:03:01] Beverly Price: Absolutely. I am so fascinated about this topic because I've had so much experience with it over my career. First, could you tell me a little bit about your own personal journey to empowerment? 


I really. Got a lot of satisfaction out of focusing on school and mm-hmm. I was a very good student. I was actually a first person in my family to go to college. And then when I got into the workplace, I thought that if I just did the same thing that I had done in school, in the workplace, that I would naturally move up. 


And I found that that really wasn't the case at all. Yeah, I've done a lot of work personally because as you can imagine, oh, my parents are divorced and , you know, lot of, lot of family turmoil that I, yeah, I've been through that too. Yeah, I, I mean, I, I took responsibility at a certain point to say, you know, I can't go back and change the past, but I can. 


Take inventory of how that affected me, and that's so important. Books go to Therapy, do all the things I needed to do to heal from what the trauma that I had been through. But at the same time, you know, I, that was actually part of what drove me to try to be successful in the workplace because I knew that. 


If I could be successful and make a good living, that I could have security and comfort in my own life. And, and that has certainly worked. I mean, I'm married, I have three kids. And I did lead a, a successful corporate career, but it wasn't something that I, I think a lot of us think, oh, if we get that great job with that good company, that the rest is just gotta be a piece of cake. 


And I found out very quickly it wasn't like that. And I, I struggled. A number of years before I finally started sort of seeing how you actually play the game of work. That's the reason why I named my book that because I think that there are a lot of unwritten rules in the workplace that nobody ever tells you, and I would say particularly women, right? 


Mm-hmm. , I think mm-hmm. that there are. Things that, you know, men will tell each other or they'll mentor each other. They'll, they'll pass along information or tips on, on how you get ahead. And I think a lot of times women are left out of those conversations. And as I learned more and more as a leader, I actually started coaching and mentoring people on my staff, which I led marketing for a number of businesses and. 


I just really enjoyed that and I also saw that women were having a, an easier time of influencing and, and getting the things done they needed to with my guidance and, you know, they enjoyed it. And so that was actually what led me to become a coach. But yeah, that's, I, I'd got lots of stories about, you know, many of the struggles that I had, and maybe we'll get into that. 


I can kind of illustrate some of the things that are in my book with some of the stories from myself and other people that I've talked to. 


[00:06:40] Terry McDougall: For women? Well, yeah. You know, I think that one unwritten rule that I learned way too late was that there's really only three ways to add value at work, and that is you're helping the company to make money, save money, or reduce risk, and that gave me a whole new lens to look through, to think about what am I doing and for what reason am I doing this? 


I think a lot of people think that, hey, if I just go in and I just do what I do, sit at my desk for eight hours and you know, answer emails or, or go to meetings that I'm doing my job. And yeah, maybe you are doing your job, but if you wanna get ahead, you really have to be able to demonstrate that you are adding value because, you know, the bottom line with any business is that it's return on investment. 


If they're getting a lot of value out of what they invest in you for your salary and for, you know, all of the benefits and training and so forth, and then they're gonna wanna keep you. And if you keep increasing the amount of value that you add, that's how you get promoted. Because they'll say, well, gosh, if she's doing that as an individual contributor, what would happen if we, if we multiplied that by making her a manager and she has people under her. 


[00:08:11] Terry McDougall: Well, a a toxic work environment is one in which gosh, people don't feel good, things can't get done. It's unproductive. You know, a lot of the, the signals that Work environment is toxic, is that there's high turnover, mm-hmm. , there's a lot of people taking a lot of sick days. 


There's not a lot of pro productivity at all. It's just not a good environment at all. And I mean, I think that wow, most of us would feel it. You're gonna feel. If, if you're in a toxic work environment, you're gonna be dreading going to work. You're going to sometimes feel sick. You're gonna maybe be doing some behaviors to compensate. 


Like I was in one, I worked for a toxic manager for about 10 months, who was just horrendous. And you know, I, I don't love to admit this, but I came home many nights and drank like half a bottle of. . So sometimes we'll, we'll do like self-medicating behaviors or other things to try to reduce the stress or to counteract the stress. 


[00:09:23] Terry McDougall: Yeah, that's a great question. I think the first thing to to do is step back and look the situation and ask your. Is this a short term situation? You know, for example, if you know you're going up to a deadline or the company is working on a, a merger integration or something where there's a deadline that once that major crisis is passed that perhaps things could get better. 


You know, so it's, I think it's important to, to ask that. Right? Is this short term or is this, you know, chronic. And then if there's something that you would like to see done differently. I mean, cuz a lot of times I think our first instinct is to flee, to say, oh, I just have to quit this place. But before you do that, you know, think about what you need and ask for it. 


You know? So if it's, you know, you're sitting next to somebody who's super negative, maybe go and ask to see if you can move where you sit, move your office. Your cubicle maybe working from home a couple days a week might help alleviate that. So really think about what you need, not, not what is painful to you, but what you would need for it to be productive. 


Ask for that. Now, this would be a sign of like a really toxic workplace. If they were like, you know, no way we can't do that. And, you know, they blamed it on you, whatever. But it's important to. Proactive about thinking about what you need and asking for it, because that's going to tell you for sure whether it's toxic, like if they just don't care. 


Right. And then that's gonna tell you something else, right? That's gonna tell you that, yeah, this is probably not someplace where I can stay long term. 


[00:11:31] Terry McDougall: You know, it's critical and I think that a lot of times, and particularly with women, because we tend to want to, you know, Even keel positive relationships. You know, even I would say be people pleasers. And so a lot of times when we're in a a toxic environment, we will sacrifice to try to make it better, right? 


We'll bend over backwards to try to make things better. And I think it's very important to step back and recognize the pattern, what's of what's going on, and not allow yourself to get sucked in where all of your energy is going into trying to fix something that might not be fixable. It's really important to put some boundaries in place that allow you to have some space for self care because what happens when you give 110%. 


To a situation that's not fixable is that you become like completely burnt out. Mm-hmm. , when you're burnt out, you have no energy to escape the situation. Right. Because if you've given 110% at a workplace that doesn't appreciate you, or you're not gonna be successful because of reasons that are beyond your control, you really need to get out of it. 


Mm-hmm. . And so you're going to need to preserve enough energy. Start looking for another job or think about, you know, other ways of leaving that environment. And I think that we can lose perspective sometimes when we're in that and start feeling like, oh, this is my fault, and if I was only better, and this is not true. 


We have to value ourselves and we have to see ourselves in the context of that bad situation. And to really question is it. Or is it my boss? Is it just the environment within this organization? You know, be be thoughtful about that and, and don't blame yourself first. Absolutely. 


Absolutely. An intimate relationship. The same things that you should do. Yes. I was, I work for a toxic company and it was toxic From the CEO down. Yeah. And it kind of passed down to all the leaders and then down into the force. And we even did a corporate survey. A company survey, an engagement survey, and it pointed out those things and 


[00:14:07] Beverly Price: Sure. So yeah, they just, they downplayed, what they said was, oh, they're just complaining. You know, that kind of thing. And that's another sign I think. Yeah, 


In my situation, I worked for a good company and I'd worked for it for a number of years before a new manager came in and she. She was like, she was crazy. You know, she'd always be like yelling on the phone like, oh my goodness. And she just, she was really horrible to work for. And she did get fired. 


And so in that situation, you know, things went back to a better place after she was gone. But that's, that's why I think it's important to like, look around and say, okay, is it my manager? If it's my manager, maybe I can get a, a job in a different department. . But if it's the CEO or if it's just the culture yeah. 


You know, and one thing I, I hear people say a lot because, you know, a lot of times people will come to me and not, they're not sure whether they should stay or go in their role. And they'll say things like, oh, it's the same everywhere. And I really try to help people not be so fatalistic, because I really believe that you, if you. 


Envision something better that you can build a roadmap to get there. You know? But you have to be optimistic and you have to be willing to take some action in that direction. There are there, there are fantastic ways to be able to make money. It doesn't have to be working for another toxic organization, right. 


[00:16:08] Terry McDougall: It's very common. It's very common. And I think it's, I think that when I was saying earlier, it's important to put boundaries in place and start to resist if people are trying to take your power, you know, recognize what your power is. 


You know, a lot of times in toxic environments, I mean, a lot of times there's a lot of narcissists that cause these things, and they will really try to project things onto you And may and for, for a lot of us that are very empathetic, you know, we care about how other people feel, but sometimes when you're dealing with somebody who doesn't care and is not sensitive at all, that they'll dump a lot on. 


Yeah. And if we know that we're sensitive, I think it's, it's even more important to put a boundary in place. One of the tools that I suggest to, to my clients a lot of times when they're dealing with. You know, negative people is to imagine themselves in a big plastic bubble. Kind of like, I don't know if you've ever seen that movie, like The Boy in the Bubble 


Yes. It just Ima, you know, when they have to deal with that person. Imagine being in a plastic bubble so that you can see the person, you can hear them, but when they start, you know, spewing their negativity towards you, it hits the outside of the bubble. And. Drips down. It doesn't, it doesn't hit you. 


Because I, I think a lot of times we just absorb that without recognizing that we've got a choice about whether we believe that, what they're saying or not. Right. And, and it really, it's not what other people say. It's what we believe about what other people say. And so if somebody's saying, oh, you're terrible Beverly and you're like, oh my gosh, am I, am I really terrible? 


That's where it starts to hurt. But if you say that you're crazy, I'm not terrible. I'm a hard worker, you know? Yeah. And we don't have to take it, you know, and I think it's really important for us to, you know, stand up and do our, you know, our power pose or, you know, even stand up and put your hands on your hips and, and feel the space and the power that you can take. 


Yeah. Start to do it tar, start to take the space, start to you know, recognize the value that you bring and stand firm in it. Yeah. 


[00:18:49] Terry McDougall: Yeah. 


[00:19:17] Terry McDougall: That's a really good question. You know, I, I think that when you're interviewing, it's important to ask very insightful questions, right? Like, things like, why did you decide to work here? You know, what is it that you like the most about this? And ask this of everybody that you talk to, because I think that if you notice that people are hesitant, That they may be trying to hide something, you know? 


Right. But if, if people are very effusive and seem very genuine and you're hearing, you know, similar things or, or what seems to be authentic things from different people in the organization, that's, it's sort of almost like giving you a 360, right? Yeah. But if you, if people are guarded and they're, they don't wanna share a lot personally about why they work. 


It may be that they're just tolerating it and they're looking for a job , you know, so Absolutely. That, that's important. Absolutely. Now, one thing though I will say about narcissists is that what they tend to do on the front end of a relationship is give you everything that you want. You know, like in personal relationships, you hear about this love bombing Like, oh my gosh, you're perfect. You're the woman I've been looking for my whole life, blah, blah, blah. And then once they feel secure that you're, you're theirs. That's when the abuse starts. And that often is also what happens in the work environment that they're like, oh, we really want you. And then once you get in there, they're like, you know, piling work on you. 


And they're not really fulfilling the things. that They ask. So I, think it's important to do your research to talk to other people that work there, do networking. Mm-hmm. , you know, maybe go out to LinkedIn and, see if you can, you either know somebody that works there You know, ask around, like ask, ask people like, oh, I see that you used to work at this company. 


What do you know about this supervisor? Or what's it like to work there? What's the environment like? Yeah. A blast to work 


[00:21:30] Terry McDougall: would be a good one. Yes, yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, and I, one thing that I I like or I suggest that people ask is, you know, why are you hiring for this role? 


You know, cause it might be a new role. That's a good question, but might be, you know oh, the, you know, last person's spouse moved or, and they had to move with them. Whatever you find out. How open or evasive they are about the answer may give you some tips on whether you need to go a little deeper and, and look, look around a little more about what might be going on there. 


And we're back. Terry, what actionable steps would you take to give the woman in our. To find their worth in a toxic environment. 


So remind yourself of everything that you've achieved. Make sure that you take care of yourself when you get home from work as much as you can, or if you're working from home and you close that computer as much as you can, try to leave work outside of the home or outside of your personal time. Do things that you enjoy, that you have fun doing, so that you refill your energy. 


Because when we get down where we're very low energy, it can be very easy to slip into that negativity and feel like there's nothing that you can do and you know, spend some time thinking about like, what are the options that you have? Like I said earlier, it could be, you know, step back and ask yourself, is it just my boss? 


Is it a coworker? Is it this department or is it the whole company? You know, because that's gonna give you different options of what you can do. Like I said, you might be able to find a, a job in another department at the same company or you may start may start to realize that no, this shoe isn't the right thing and one, one other. 


and everybody's probably heard of the quiet quitting revolution. Right? And I don't, you know, I wouldn't say, you know, pick up a paycheck and don't do any work, right? But I think a lot of us give a lot at work. And if, if you're thinking that you wanna get out, consider what's the minimum that you can do so you don't burn yourself out so that you do have enough. 


To find another job and or, you know, maybe start a business or something to get out. 


[00:26:08] Terry McDougall: Yeah. There's, there's a lot of options. I just, one more thing. I mean, sure. Not that I, that I, each of us has to figure out what's right for us. 


I had one client who. In a very, very toxic environment. And she actually ended up taking medical leave for mental health reasons for 12 weeks. Mm-hmm. . And that helped her to determine what her next steps were. Oh, that's a great idea. If it's, if it's extreme, I mean, if you really are feeling like your health is suffering or your depressed or, you know, that's an option. 


And I, and for most companies, that's protected by law. . Yes, 


[00:27:04] Terry McDougall: You know, I, I really wish that I had been more confident about finding mentors earlier in my career. 


Mm-hmm. . And also that I had been bolder about networking. I can remember being in my twenties and people saying, oh, you know, you need to network. This was before LinkedIn, so it wasn't as easy as it is. But I always, I got really nervous about it cause I always thought about networking as like going into a giant ballroom and trying to balance hors DEU and a wine glass and business cards 


And, and it's really not like that, you know, it's really just thinking about people that you know, or people that maybe your friends and colleagues know and just letting people know you. It's, it, I actually think the best networking is just getting to know people when you don't need. , you know, where it's just like, Hey, I'd like to get to know you. 


Like, you know, what, what can I do to help you? Mm-hmm. , you know, I think approaching meeting new people with curiosity and respect and reciprocity is really the best approach, and it's. I learned this lesson like later in my career, but I love networking now because I get to meet great people like you, for example. 


You know, and I meet a lot of people and meet you. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. There's, there's a lot of really nice people out there that are very willing to help because they know what comes around goes around, you know? 


Are you willing to have a coffee chat? Yeah. And that's even a little safer for people that are afraid of it than a face to face networking. Yes, yes. But, but one of the things I did way back was, and, and now that you're talking about it, I think I must have had a good bit of burnout and didn't even, you know, realize it. 


But I was a single mom, so I spent all my time on either work or my children. And I didn't take the time to build any kind of support system. Yeah. So once the kids were, you know, out of high school going into college, I woke up and go, whoa, I don't have a support system. Yeah. And I think it's critical as a corporate employee, but also if you're gonna become an entrepreneur. 


Yes. And even just for your mental and emotional health what thoughts do you. On support systems and, and in this case, I'm not necessarily thinking of it as business networking , but just, you know, that embodiment. 


You could start one today, , you know, just by reaching out to neighbors or friends or, or people. The great thing about the day we're living in now is we've got Zoom I, I've been on some mastermind groups that, you know, I just asked other people if they wanted to get involved and we just decided we were gonna meet on a monthly basis to. 


This one in particular was about my coaching business and I was with other coaches and we were just getting together on a monthly basis to share our wins, share our challenges, share what was going on in your personal life. And it's amazing how close of friends you can become in those situations. And if, if you find people that you have something in common with, you know, you're gonna be able to help them. 


They're gonna be able to help you, and you can build those friend. And, you know, it doesn't have to be, you know, traveling or spending any money. It could just be saying, okay, an hour, once or twice a month we're gonna get together and, you know, just do a little round robin in sharing what we have going on. 


And, you know, a lot of times also things come out of that, like where maybe somebody mentioned something and you end up having a side conversation about it. And to me it's, it's been a really beautiful. Thing since I left the corporate world, because you know, as you probably know as when you're an entrepreneur, it can be lonely sometimes. 


Very. Yes. Finding other people that you have something in common with and who understand what you might be going through can be really helpful. And I, I certainly don't think that I would still be running my business if I didn't have that kind of support from other yeah, friends and co. 


Well, I have one question that I like to ask all my guests to wrap things up, and that is, what does self expression mean to you? That's how, 


I don't have to jump through any hoops or convince anybody else that it's a good idea. I can just do it. And that's, it's a little scary sometimes, but it's a lot of fun. 


Mm-hmm. . Do you have any tips on fear? Well, 


He's like, you can start at the baby end of the. And I was like, oh, okay. I can just start by dipping my toe in. Right. Right. So you could, you could set some goals for yourself just to say like, I'm gonna ask my neighbor to coffee, or I'm going to, you know, call up my roommate from college. Or, you know, just start with something that you can't fail. 


Right. You can't fail at. Right. And also realize that most of the time people will respond. And kind. So if you are being open and nice and you know, approachable, they're, they're gonna be receptive to that. And when, when you don't get the response that you expect, just go on to the next person, because some people have even more fear than you do. 


Yeah. So maybe they're, you know, not everybody's gonna respond, but most people will. I, I found, Being out here and networking and talking to people that, like 98% of people I run into are just super nice and helpful and you know. Yeah. If I'm interested in them, they're interested in me, which, you know, that's how you start. 


Yeah. Like, Hey, tell me about you. 


[00:34:35] Terry McDougall: listeners find you? Well, they can go to my website, terry b mcdougal.com. I've got some chapters of my book out there. Lots of information, blogs, et cetera, and, and they can book some time with me on my calendar if they wanna learn more. 


I'm also active on LinkedIn, and my handle on LinkedIn is Terry being McDougal, and it's Terry, 


[00:35:02] Terry McDougall: Yeah. Terry with the Y. Okay. That's right. 


[00:35:06] Terry McDougall: of it over the years. I know my, my first and last name can be both be spelled many different ways, . 


[00:35:17] Terry McDougall: Well, I wanna share that. You are valuable. You were put on this earth for a reason. You are unique. There's nobody else like you. So really embrace that, love yourself and start letting people see who you are because you know you weren't here to fit into anybody else's box. You figure out who you are and, and be and be happy. 


That's 


[00:35:52] Terry McDougall: I love that. Well, Terry, 


To get to where Terry describes, we need insight, willingness, and walking through a little bit of fear. I believe that we need both outside and inside strength to come together to make our empowerment journey complete. Thank you for being with Terry and me on this episode of her Self-expression. I hope you can see the direct connection between knowing you are worthy, dealing with toxic environments and empowerment. 


I love connecting you with incredible women that can provide actionable steps for you to take on your. You can find our podcast on links at Apple, Spotify p Dolo, and more. Please download and share it with your friends. The more women we reach, the more interesting topics and impactful guests we can have. 


Remember, the more you express yourself, the better you feel. Self-expression doesn't have to be a mystery. It's your key to navigating self-empowerment, both inside and out, but most importantly, you don't have to go it along. I've been through painful life changes and my own empowerment journey to get to the other side with experience to guide you no matter where you are in your journey. 


I'm here to help. Thank you and take. 


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