In this two-part conversation, we look into critical issues surrounding homelessness, housing insecurity, and the evolving role of nonprofit leaders in a post-COVID world.

Kenneth Wilson sits down with esteemed guests Elizabeth Brown, President & CEO of the YWCA, and Shannon Isom, President & CEO of the Community Shelter Board.

This insightful conversation explores how the pandemic has reshaped the nonprofit sector, especially in addressing workforce challenges and the heightened expectations placed on nonprofit leaders.

Elizabeth and Shannon share their experiences and strategies for navigating these complex landscapes, emphasizing the importance of providing a living wage, tackling generational trauma, and breaking cycles of homelessness through innovative models like non-congregate shelters.

We also touch upon the intertwined nature of housing and mental health, the necessity of stable living conditions, and the potential for impactful government programs to alleviate child poverty and enhance social support systems.

Memorable Moments

05:03 Nonprofit leaders face new workforce expectations post-COVID.

08:52 Elected officials must understand issues and rely on support.

12:44 Economic boom leads to housing destabilization concerns.

14:59 Prosperity links to housing insecurity and poverty.

19:08 Franklin County measures up well overall.

21:43 Promoting human well-being through government partnerships.

27:01 Early hopelessness linked to youth violence and justice.

28:29 Proud of redefining family and addressing gaps.

32:54 Addressing generational trauma through non-congregate housing.

35:43 Center providing 5-star care for housing insecure families.

40:36 Family center provides support for unhoused families.

Top Takeaways

The pandemic has created significant workforce challenges, especially in healthcare and social services.

Leaders in nonprofit organizations now require a combination of business strategy, research skills, political savvy, and workforce management to address the complex issues post-COVID and to sustain their missions effectively.

Elizabeth Brown underscores the importance of providing living wages to employees.

Shannon TL Isom highlights the importance of diversion strategies, including cash assistance, to reduce prolonged shelter stays and break the generational cycle of homelessness.

Non-congregate models, such as hotels and motels, offer quiet, private spaces for families, facilitating better planning and reducing the constant logistical challenges found in congregate settings.

Addressing behavioral health crises must involve stable living conditions, with housing first being a critical approach to improving mental health outcomes.

Providing quality childcare, even for homeless families, can significantly impact children’s development.

Stable housing is seen as a form of treatment, particularly for addressing behavioral health issues, emphasizing the need for a Housing First approach.

Addressing racial disparities and the generational trauma associated with homelessness is crucial for creating effective and equitable solutions.

Franklin County has a legacy of supporting health and human services. Still, there is a need for a better alignment of resources and innovative solutions, such as child tax credits and guaranteed income, to tackle poverty, homelessness, and health disparities effectively.

talkofthecounty@franklincountyohio.gov

Copyright 2024 Franklin County Board of Commissioners

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Good afternoon, Franklin County. I'm here for another episode of Talkin' to County. I'm here today with, the CEO, the YWCA, and the CEO for the Community Shelter Board. Elizabeth Brown serves as the President and CEO of the YWCA, and Shannon Isom serves as CEO, President of the Community Shelter Board. Yes. 2 very important organizations in our community, that service our residents each and every day who have, fell into a position of either being unhoused, in the need of emergency shelter, or in the need of permanent supportive housing. So I would like to lead off by asking, how did you both get involved in this field, especially considering the challenges of being a nonprofit leader post COVID 19?

Well, I'll jump in. I jumped into the field after COVID. So, I really I started at YWCA Columbus, in January of 2023. And at that time, you know, we provide housing. And so the the period of COVID lockdowns and then the uncertainty, that that created for budgets of social services agencies were still kind of underpinning a lot of the work that we did. We're also a childcare provider. And so under the YWCA umbrella, there were a lot of different business lines that we, had to continue, to get innovative and creative about, addressing the the challenges of the day. So in January 2023, we were still, facing a lot of dangers of COVID or really anxieties about COVID in our group housing settings and at the same time facing, some deficits in our child care work because it was such an uncertain time, particularly for the child care workforce.

And so I dove in at that time, and it's really been amazing to see what the last 18 months have been like in our community and in the work that we do. So that's my story. I have

been involved with nonprofits, for some time and certainly pre COVID, so I don't view it as really choosing something post COVID, but more or less maybe choosing the change of my focus, which is homelessness. Pre or post COVID, I feel the exact same way about the need for really rigor, intentional discipline around people that are really smart solving very difficult challenges. And so, I have and will continue to dedicate time and energy to the philanthropic space. Mostly because, there's a lot of philanthropists in the philanthropic space, but we also need a lot of other talent, including strategy and intellectual acumen acumen and rigor. And so for me, it it called me in, for some of those challenges that need to be solved. And so, whether pre or post, I'm I'm here. I'm dedicated, to anything that shows up with the with the stridency of the human condition.

Do you think the role of a nonprofit leader has been modified at all, being that you was a nonprofit executive, as you stated before COVID 19 and now afterwards?

That's a great question. Mhmm. Yeah. That's a great question. I I do. I do view that as as being a change. I I've always felt, and it's probably many of you already do, you know, boards call you in and people ask for your assistance both formally and informally. So in a lot of ways, non profits and non profit leadership, let's say, pre COVID, were always challenged on how to navigate a world where resources were very dynamic.

What I think is a little bit different, with your question now than maybe was before pre COVID, which was pre COVID, is that there is now an expectation that, business strategy, maybe even some ways of a skill set around research, certainly political acumen, relationship acumen, are all now expected. And maybe that's a little different than 10 or 15 years ago. K.

I don't have the, period of a COVID hangover, for lack of a better description, is that, I think there are new and greater expectations on nonprofit leaders when it comes to our workforce, right? When it comes to our role as employers, workforce challenges were really put into high relief throughout COVID and immediately following after. And so, of course, the most obvious example is in the healthcare field. But also, so many non profits were really frontline workers during that time, and there is, there's a real reckoning in what it takes to retain and recruit a workforce in today's economy. And so, because of the unique nature of especially social services work, I do think that there is a different role that nonprofit leaders have to sort of tack on to all their other roles, which is higher expectations around sort of running a business with your role as an employer in charge of a workforce.

Yes. Excellent point. I I vividly remember a short time after, you assumed this role at the YWCA, you approached, leadership, and stated, you know, I wanna bring, my workers up to, a living wage as measured by the wage it takes to be able to actually afford and and be stable in housing, the people that are serving our residents that are in shelter.

Yeah. That's that's exactly right, Administrator Wilson. Great memory. You know, one of the things I observed when I started, we do, we do listening circles where our social justice, department will go in and really offer staff a safe pace place to talk about what they're experiencing because the work particularly of providing services in a home shelter, can be not just, it's a traumatic time for residents, but also can feel traumatic for staff. So we've always wanted to do that safe space. And one thing, that I heard, you know, anonymously in, downloading those listening circles is how many of our employees were themselves in a position of housing insecurity while they served individuals who had the housing rug pulled out from underneath them. So that felt, wrong. It also felt untenable as an employer.

Right. You know, even, you know, nonprofit and and public sector workers, there's an expectation that you bring a servant attitude Yes. Or to have a certain level of empathy. But it's you have to also remember that our frontline workers face life as well.

That's right.

And even with the purest heart, stress is stress. If you're on the stress to make ends meet, if you have a family and you and you're just on that edge of being housing insecure or even, you know, in food insecure because we've had some periods of time where, just going to the grocery store for the average family has been tough with some of the inflationary pressures, that individuals have felt. And, miss Brown, you also, have the benefit of serving at the other side of the desk Yeah. As you honorably served on Columbus City Council and the nonprofit leaders came to you as you could tell. Yeah. So talk about how that dynamic and how you still remember that side of the table and now that you are a nonprofit executive.

Well, how long do we have? I have so many, observations, in such a short time. So I, you know, I do think the job of an elected official, especially in any kind of legislative or executive position, is to be a generalist, is to really be able to understand any issue that's brought before you because you don't know, what will be most urgent at any given time. And because of that, you have to rely on excellent guidance from staff, but also on excellent and honest, folks who can translate the information about what's going on. So I do know that in my role as a city council member, I really relied on what I heard from the community of nonprofit, leaders to help inform, the decisions that we had in front of us. There are there are always too many organizations in need of funding, and we have to rely on the expertise of those in the field so that we can get the information straight and we can understand what to do with the public dollars that have been entrusted to those elected officials. I think about that a lot in this role. I hope that it does, give me, that it does prepare me even better to be a translator of what I see. Right? Because I know, that the decisions can come, fast and furious, and the problems can seem really steep to solve.

Mhmm. Mhmm. This community has a legacy of, supporting, health and human services from both the private sector, philanthropic community, government, local government, both city government at the municipal level and county government, but it just never seems enough. And and with that optic in mind, how can you candidly share to both of you, how do you see the status of homelessness and housing insecurity in Franklin County today, as we're saying?

Yeah. I'll I'll answer that first. The the the homelessness and the housing insecurity, is certainly both from the health and human services, but I believe in, in, if not, the the the nonprofits that are directly responsible, I think many of the nonprofits, because of the connectivity, the periphery need is consistently thinking about this. You both mentioned, and administrative Wilson, you mentioned also that now, which I think is a little different than pre COVID, we now have to think about not only our staff making a wage, but the staff stress of just even if they're making an Ohio wage that we understand how close people are, to destabilization of not just housing, but innumerable parts of their safety net. I think that that's part of also a non profit, leader to think about those things and think about those things too consistently of a viable workforce. I think also, second secondarily, with with the increase of the stress and the strain around housing is that how do other nonprofits, collaborate and partner along with you, which maybe even before COVID, you could stand more singularly in your space and stand more singularly around your mission. Well, I don't know if that works so well now because people have multiple dimensions to their, destabilization that must be addressed. And if not, with some emergent need, with some urgency.

I think that's been an add an add an added element. And so if you put all those things together, and then you start talking about the system of housing and the system of homelessness and the ready meant of response, It is very much a reflection of, all the wonderful elements we love to think about in this economy, that there has been such a a boom, such a great robust growth on our economy, and and so for the degradation and of some of those systems around homelessness. There's been such a a wonderful, tapestry of not only additions of of not only additions of of businesses, but people running to this community and picking it, and so does, right, the opposite of that, people being pushed out, onto out and out of housing because of vacancy rates and being just outpriced, for those young people who we know are are the health of our community depends on, and certainly what business and entrepreneurship is is is, hanging its head on, so does, right, we see on the opposite end where we have an explosion of elderly, being destabilized in housing. And so, you know, both through the the good and and maybe then some of the really hard, issues that we have to look at with this economic boom. And so the housing destabilization. I would say that although that it is difficult, what I what I will note is it is on everyone's mind. I can't move in not one room or a table that's not talking about it, whether I'm there around health care, whether we're there around public health and safety, whether we're there, around education. And that is something really, I think is an opportunity for us to be excited about that.

This is no longer around a singular, siloed or solo nonprofit hanging their hat on trying to figure this out. This is really a a system regional response that we're trying to figure out. Mhmm.

And, you know, I would only add I'll underscore what Shannon said about, you know, prosperity. The prosperity we're increasing, there's really a parallel, if not causal track, between prosperity and poverty. Right? And then you look around the nation and that happens everywhere, particularly poverty when it comes to housing. Right? Insecurity of housing really runs parallel, to prosperity and is probably caused by prosperity because communities have to build so rapidly. They have to predict and bank on this prosperous track is gonna keep coming for us, so we're gonna be able to overbuild to catch the growth that's coming, which is far more complex, I think, that people realize to do. And our community has so much more to do there to be able to, account for what we're losing in, essentially, housing affordability right now. And another thing though I that I will add, administrator Wilson, you talked about how it just it does feel like there is such a need at all times in the human services sector. And, you know, from your position in the county, I think that one of the reasons it feels that way, and forgive me expressing my candid opinion here, but I I think the legislature has not the state legislature has not taken on their share of the responsibility.

So if you have a state legislature that is more interested in passing bills on who can use what bathrooms, what children are allowed to play what sports, and, how they can unfairly draw district lines and whether they wanna keep president Biden off the ballot. If these are the issues that motivate them to come and, and convene session, they are not focused on the human condition and the work that I think, frankly, is left to our local governments to really sit down, dig in, and try to solve along side nonprofit leaders?

Yes. The state's role in Health and Human Services is as an overseer

Yes.

And and a rule maker

Yes.

And they're delivered by design at the county level to be administered

Yes.

And funded, which, requires county governments, municipalities to look for funding from other places. Be it property tax levies, be it general fund dollars. It's just constantly trying to find ways to fund growing health and human services needs. And Lord be with us when the American Rescue Plan dollars begin to, you know, be dwindle away, because the demand has been there, and it has allowed local governments to do things, to mitigate some of the pain in communities Yep. That we they wouldn't been able to do otherwise. Yep. So that that is one of the things that that really is concerning to me, as the administrator of the largest and and still growing in one stop growing county.

That's right. That's right.

In the state and when one of the fastest growing, in the country is how do we deal with this demand? You talk about, you know, youth. We have a lot of youth. We have a lot of college students. We have we have a lot of, of new new Americans. People coming to Franklin County seeking opportunity. Mhmm. And we have to we can't seem to build enough Yeah. Workforce development infrastructure to make sure that we create an opportunity for every resident that that moves here and and and wanna, have a family and wanna do well.

But when you measure us in the aggregate, miss Brown, you kinda follow into my next question. When you measure Franklin County in the aggregate, we are, by all, measures of double, triple a rated, county. We have surpluses. We are able to manage things fairly well compared to some other communities. Yeah. We are you know, when you look at per capita incomes, you look at the number of college educated individuals, by all of those measures, we are a healthy community with vast resources, but you can look at data that shows that poverty and and homelessness and, health disparities such as a infant mortality rate that none of us has been happy about. And we've been trying to tackle infant mortality for at least 20 years, it seems, and and we still are not where we where we need to be. And we look at the issues around affordability of childcare.

Yep. Yep.

It's a major, major, major issue. And we we talk about being innovative. We talk about things such as guaranteed income and looking at those kind of things. Those kind of things are good, but there are some fundamental things that could be done, like simply bringing back a ongoing, child tax credit from the federal level

That's right.

Would make all the difference in the world That's

right.

In reducing child poverty.

Yep. And we saw it happen.

Yep. We saw it happen.

We saw

it happen. And then it went away. And because of the numbers in congress

In real time and in measures afterwards, it was deemed, shown, proven to be successful.

Yep. Yep. Successful. Mhmm. The politics of it, you know, it, Social Security, Medicare really changed the face of what poverty in this country looked like. Huge initiatives that covered, you know, a vast swath of the American people and, frankly, made government look good. And people rely on these programs, and the politics of another common sense program that would have stabilized families, you know, just couldn't happen because of, you know, okay. If it's a feather in one side's cap, then it's a problem for the other side.

We saw it work. And it and it wasn't a it wasn't a disincentive to working. Those that were getting it were the people that work.

That's right. Yep. That's right. It is becoming more and more of what we know what we know is the centering of the human condition, especially when the government can scale, when it can create redundancy, when it has partnerships with the state. I think that cannot that cannot be missed, especially in a state like Ohio, where this particular county is growing leaps and bounds, not to compare with other counties, but in a pretty significant way. When you see those things lined up, if you have all of that in alignment and not commodify housing, not commodify children, not commodify those services and resources that are needed needed for not only a healthy workforce, but for a healthy community. When we can make common sense, I hate to use that, but really some common sense choices. What we know is that some of the other things that are really more strident within our community, administrative Wilson, which is how do I keep the those that are really, with exacerbated mental health needs, maybe health care needs that are on the street, how do I then get to be focused on them? We can't because we have just what you said, a constant, a constant, amount of people that are moving into homelessness because of issues like this.

They don't have enough dollars for health care. They don't have enough dollars for childcare. They don't have enough dollars for housing. So, it does feel constant and I think it is because of some of these really important elements that we know make sense. Yep. And the relationship with the state, with the county that is just exceedingly beyond growing, beyond its its measure, which needs also in its own way and alignment of resources and scaling and parity, it makes for your job very in ours, but your job really very difficult.

What what do you, all see as main the main challenges and barriers in the current homeless response system, that exacerbates, racial disparities.

Oh, gosh. I'm gonna take a line from Elizabeth. How long do I have that I can talk about this?

Oh, we got we we we we got we talk a hour. We we we cut it down in 30 minutes or it becomes a 2 part series.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. I don't I think both both Liz and I can talk about this for, you know, a long time. I you know, when we get down to any any any parts of resource alignment and especially what nonprofits are doing, obviously, with with health and human services are constantly thinking about. We are always talking about intersectionality. And I will say not only around race, class, and with gender, but if we're really talking about racial aspects, we know that there are many and multiple systems working at the exact same time that once, deployed and then stressed can truly have parts of our community, struggling and even in the struggle having disparities within that even even in the struggle. And so we know that no matter how we slice it, whether we're looking at housing, and thinking about our historical, regulations that we had to to keep certain communities, more monochromatic or maybe even more pure.

We know that, whether we're looking at some covenant, laws around housing, we also know that multiple disparities, including in recent times, at least in my night lifetime around the eighties nineties that started criminalizing specific, parts of our population started, archetyping for the, welfare mom. We know that there are multiple ways that worked together to ensure that, the systemic disparity, around race, is seen. And I will tell you that when I disaggregate the data within our shelter system, whether we see it within youth, whether we see it see it within our family centers and emergency, shelters, whether we see it, within our domestic violence centers, whether, regardless of how I cut it across my shelters, including across those that need, heavy support called permanent supportive housing, the housing that has heavy heavy support and subsidy, regardless of how I slice it, you will see more poverty, more black people, and, more moms.

Miss Isom, you, you, you lead me to the next place I want to go is trauma. Trauma on individuals, that term childhood, adverse experiences, is real. It it has a lingering effect.

Mhmm.

It leads to, individuals developing a sense of hopelessness at a early age, which, I would argue, is probably one of the factors in a certain extent in community violence and in in youth getting in contact with the with the criminal justice system much too early in life and becoming part of becoming systematized, I would use the word. But we can do something about that by improving one's experiences regardless of a zip code, through Pacific programming, by exposing our youth and giving our families opportunities. And one of the things that, you have began to promote that I believe is one of the things that reduces trauma, in families when they become unhoused is a move away from a congregate warehouse type setting, for individuals when they're trying to transition back. Talk about that model as well as talk about some other innovative approaches and best practices your organization has implemented to address the realities that this community faces?

The first that I'm very proud of as I've, walked into the community shelter board and in this community and have been challenged with some gaps, not only within our homeless system, but some gaps within the way that we move through policies and relationships around how to operationalize those systems. One of the many things that I'm really proud of is the first, which is, that that we get to define this community. Franklin County gets to define what families are. So we don't have to think about the traditional HUD definition of families. We get to see that definition, understanding that we must comply because the dollars matter, but also understanding that we can do one step further. So whether that is, I'm I'm 2 sisters that are in homelessness or if there's, same sex couples that are in homelessness, whether that includes a pet that's part of that family, we have moved to ensure that if you are homeless and you define your family as this, and so be it. And so we now have resources that are aligned to that through a non congregate, model. We also, which I'm really, really proud about, have have also just put in our own ethos of how do we divert as a natural way in which we are thinking about homelessness.

And diversion doesn't mean just how do you can you identify a person or two in which you can go to ensure that you can't go into the shelter, but giving people cash, cash assistance. Without all the ties and saying, we understand that as something as low low low as a $1,000 or $1500 will not only keep you out of the shelter, but will keep you out of the shelter, and we're still looking at a year, a year and a half, almost 2 years. We know that. That has become no longer about a pilot, but how do we how do we do our work? And then thirdly, is I think it's imperative, that we challenge ourselves to end something around homelessness. I think, not only can we do it, but I think it'll start making the community believe that we can do something big. Yeah. We gotta start biting off this a little at a time. Non congregate model will allow us to take families, administrator, put them in spaces where they get to concentrate on the work that they need to do with their kids, with their significant other, in a lot of ways, what you and I take for granted and do every day.

This allows a couple of things, that the energy isn't spent in trying to organize the noise that is in a congregate shelter model. Mhmm. It'll also allow that energy not to be expended on where are my children if they are out of sight. When you're in a congregate model, you're constantly organizing where your children are. Thirdly, it allows you to have some quiet space, your mind to have some quiet time to concentrate on the things that need to be done. And 4th, it allows you to plan, which all of us need time to do. I believe that although that this is a model that we are just starting, Colonial Village, Latitude 525, and some of the ways in which we work with the emergency shelters around families of overflow, we have seen some excellent glean, some excellent results from it. And I know for certain that those families come back less, which means it saves our system more than anything, administrator.

What we hope it does is break the generational violence, the generational subsidy, and the generational hopelessness that you were speaking about. We wanna make sure that children don't come back. And then I'm gonna answer this with this final, why do I know it's imperative to do it? We are dealing with the family today. A mother who has 2 children, she was pregnant, and lost found out yesterday that she lost her pregnancy. We believe a lot of that can happen, but we also believe a lot of that has to do with the stress and the strain It's

the stress of the toxic stress of the Internet. Space.

Trauma and stress of being in homelessness. So we know that that's the truth. But here's the kicker, She was in the family shelter as a child. Right? So we have that generational vicarious trauma that is consistently being passed on, and we know Mhmm. We know we know we know health care and in education, those those have deleterious effects. We we must, we have to, and we're compelled to change that. I believe we can do that in the non congregate model by, buying organizing under you, what I call underutilized resources, hotels, motels, those those structures that are readied, that we can be that could be rehabbed. And then working with our partners to be quite frankly to be quite frank and then working with our partners of the best way to organize Mhmm.

Families, and those that would be next in line to go into those spaces.

That removing stigmas around behavioral health, is a is a big issue here in Franklin County regardless of where you're at on the economic spectrum, I believe. Yeah. Because we all have different type of problems.

Yep.

From the bottom of the income spectrum to the top and everything in between, And we need more employers to think about the complete person.

Yep.

And we think about it more at the social service level because we know people are in, feeling like they are day all time low. And they they need, you know, that that that help and that that hand up. But sometime even there, do you feel like the the homelessness system has enough resources to, have a door for for folks that, can understand that it's okay not to be okay as they're trying to get their house and stabilized so that they can get behavioral health and mental health services. A lot of times, it's just it's just amount it's counseling, just talking to somebody, just working through situations and say it you know, today might not be good, but if we plan for tomorrow, we can get it out of this.

Mhmm. You know, we we have a lot of great partners that come into the family center, to help on behavioral health issues, to provide counseling. You know, we also run a 5 star, quality rated childcare center, early childhood education center at the family center.

Repeat that again. How many stars? 5. 5 stars.

You know how what that takes.

I know what that takes.

Five stars. 5 stars in a center that serves families during what is probably one of the most traumatic periods of their life, when they're completely housing insecure. Right? They're in our center, and we have worked very hard to ensure that when a family walks in the door, there is a place for them in that center. So I'm gonna brag on our team for a minute because you gave me the opening too. And 5 star rated and also to be able to be that nimble Mhmm. With, you know, staffing to ensure that no child is turned away when they come, no parent is turned away when they come, and they want their child to be safe and sound in our facility. So we're really, really proud of that. And and because of the training of our teachers too, we actually find that we end up doing this is not so much behavioral health, but, but there are components of, you know, early signs for needing occupational therapy or any other kind of developmental delays that a child who may be coming to center based care or may be in the care of a really high quality trained teacher for the first time has that access right away.

And we believe that's part of the, continuum. And, I do think, I I do feel, quite certain that the most Look, the difference between some of us having a mental health issue the difference between me having a debilitating mental health condition and someone who's in our shelter is that for me, I can go get treatment, and often for someone who ends up in our shelter, that condition brought them there. Right? That is the difference, that frankly the income you earn is the difference between whether you can get treatment or whether it spells crisis in your life. So it's very important for us to recognize that, I think, in our approach then, our non stigmatizing approach, as you said, to ensuring that we provide care for people.

It's very important what treatment looks like.

Yes. Mhmm.

That that will determine whether someone accepts it or walks away from it.

Yeah. Well and the and treatment is also a stable place to live. Right? Like, that is housing. Yes. Treatment is housing. Is housing. That has been proven out is that we it doesn't mean that you then ignore any of the behavioral health issues, but treatment is housing and it starts with housing, and we we don't wanna do either in a vacuum, and that's why the Housing First approach has proven so important.

Yeah. I would say the difference between, and I love that you put it to I, was I would say the difference, administrator of me having, mental health that you can see and someone in a shelter, even in a domestic violence shelter, is as I have a ready house and a ready safety net within that home. And so the effect of me potentially being ill is less evident than when I have scarcity around me. I would caution us, and I and I do this I try to make sure I follow my own advice. I would caution us to not be so disturbed by those that have mental health because most of us do. Most of us do. The difference is is that because all things else are well, it allows us to mitigate the symptoms of it. So, my charge with a system perspective is that I must, and we've talked about this, I must have, when I'm talking about shelter, I must always have housing first in my mouth, because that is one of the best elixirs for mental health crisis, not taking away that there are additional modalities that many of us need.

You hear it all the time. Housing is health.

Yes. I mean, most people

get that. It's it's the key to physical and mental health.

Yes.

It's different to go focus on anybody's job, anybody's lesson plan if you're gonna sleep in a car or worse Mhmm. That night.

Yep. That's right.

It's you just can't it's difficult to turn that off. Yep. It's extreme. You just it's just like that's that's just

Or if your house is unsafe or if there's violence, or if there's no food,

or

if you're not being cared for, even within that home, or or and it's it's been shown with with research. Or if your brain is consumed by having a lack of money or a lack of resources. Is the The scarcity brain, right?

Yeah, so or if you're in shelter. I'm not feeling shelter. It's not housing. I'm very proud of the work we do at the family center, but I am very clear: it is not housing. Our families are going through an episode of being unhoused.

It doesn't have all the elements of a house.

They are in shelter, and that's different. And, again, we are so proud of the services we provide, but we would never say that what it is is

housing.