Ian McKay Constantine, a legal professional from St Lucia and alumnus of The Faith & Belief Forum's ParliaMentors Programme, interviews Dr Daniel Moulin, Religious Education lead at the University of Cambridge. They discuss the importance and potential of religious education (RE) in contemporary society. Dr Moulin emphasizes the need for deep, authentic engagement with religious traditions in RE, going beyond superficial understanding to address issues like prejudice, discrimination, and moral development. They also consider the implications of artificial intelligence on education and the necessity of maintaining our humanity, including through deep and meaningful engagement with religious studies.

Part of the Interfaith Futures series, this episode also belongs to a three-part special on Religious Education produced in partnership with The Faith & Belief Forum. Religious Education is a statutory subject in UK schools, but a shortage of specialist teachers is among several challenges that have challenged its delivery. In principle, the subject is intended to provide chance to learn about and from different religions, supporting learners’ individuation, character development, and understanding of the world.

Hello and good day.

I am Ian McKay Constantine, and I'm pleased to join this conversation series as an alumnus of The Faith & Belief Forum's award winning ParliaMentors Programme.

I am a legal professional and social impact leader originally from St. Lucia. I have a Bachelor of Science in Economics and Law from the University of West Indies Campbell Campus in Barbados. I then proceeded to do my Bachelor of Law degree from Nottingham Trent University, which was also complemented by my Master of Laws, which was completed alongside a bar training course at Cardiff University. Most recently, I had the pleasure of pursuing a Master of Science from Nottingham Business School in Finance.

Alongside interdisciplinary learning, I've held a strong desire to apply my knowledge for the betterment of society. On the ParliaMentors Programme, my team undertook a social action project to really enhance the experience of refugees from diverse faiths and backgrounds, with a focus on food preparation and food security as a means of fostering social change alongside cohesion whilst dismantling systemic biases.

Previously, I served as the president of the Catholic Students Movement, and in this role, I dedicated myself to promoting spiritual inclusion and hosting retreats that address religious tolerance, campus life, and the experiences of young persons of faith in the Caribbean region. Now, whilst in London, I collaborate with a grassroots team which empowers 11 to 15 year olds in socio economically deprived areas to develop a more sustainable eating practice, alongside an attention to health and cultural diversity.

I'm joined today by Dr Daniel Moulin from the University of Cambridge, within the Faculty of Education. Welcome Daniel.

Good morning.

Dr Moulin is a University Associate Professor and leads the training of specialist religious education teachers, a field which he described as "contested but vital". As an advocate of diverse forms of traditional and faith based educational practices, Daniel believes in education and it should always and above all foster goodness, truth and beauty in the different ways these ideals may manifest in various contexts.

He is currently working on projects about the purpose of education in interreligious perspective and the function of narrative and moral exemplars. Dr Moulin is also a fellow and director of studies in Education at Jesus College, assistant editor of the Journal of Beliefs and Values, and the Cambridge branch secretary of the Philosophy of Education Society of Great Britain.

He has studied at universities including the University of Nottingham, Bristol, Exeter, and Oxford, and is an active member of the Cambridge Interfaith Research Forum. Today, we're looking forward to a vivid and vibrant discussion.

Just to begin, Daniel, I first wanted to ask you, how can or indeed should we be thinking about religious education in response to our contemporary moment?— it has been so marked by political difference and inflammatory rhetoric, which has led to violence. What is the potential for RE in this context to respond to this moment?

I think any education has to go beyond the everyday to look at the deep structure of things and understand the world not only as it is, but as it could be. And that means for religious education, going beyond the headlines and going beyond the current issues of the day, to look at things that are in a greater perspective.

Now that doesn't diminish the role of religious education in protecting against conflict, protecting against discrimination and prejudice of all kinds. But what I'd like to emphasize is the unique nature of religious education as a subject. Because prejudice and discrimination can be studied in many subjects and indeed should be included right across the curriculum.

But what religious education does is it allows for a deeper interrogation and exploration of knowledge, of belief, of people's everyday lives, of people's identifications, and these traditions, these religious traditions, which are ancient, which draw upon, texts and scholarship and debates that go back hundreds of years, millennia, because those are great resources for humankind.

And religious education is and can be many things, but what I believe in is a religious education that goes to the root and heart of the matter. And in doing so, we find ourselves, in an enriching and in an engaging subject, which transcends, the boundaries and issues of the day to offer a new way of seeing the world.

Thank you very much. I appreciate that nuanced response. And I think at a time like this, it is critical to provide those impactful discussions and sharing of knowledge to promote tolerance, especially at these early age groups. And even beyond that, at any age group, it is a welcome point of interest.

To follow up with another question, I wanted to find out from you, what can religious education offer in terms of building capacity to respond to future similar challenges?

Well, exactly. And this follows on from what I've been saying, and I will just add that religious education, like any subject, requires a really in depth understanding of religions, from a variety of perspectives. There's no shortcut to scholarship in this area, and particularly in the training of religious education teachers, because it's a very specialist subject. It's a subject that requires a lot of knowledge and also a lot of experience.

But I would just like to point out that religious education also takes many forms, and it takes many forms around the world and also in this country. And probably the most sort of important distinction to make is between religious education within a faith community and religious education across and between faith communities.

And both forms of religious education are vitally important. If we're thinking about religious education within faith communities, and that can include some state funded schools, because in this country, as you know, the state has funded schools which have a particular religious character. The formation, and formation is a word which in some educational circles is problematic, but it is happening in a school because schools form the person. And traditionally faith schools or schools of a particular religious character have sought to form people within the context of a particular tradition. But it's no longer possible to live in worlds where we do not engage across religious traditions.

So a truly religiously educated person will be knowledgeable of all the world's religions or all the main religious traditions represented in Great Britain.

And of course, in London, for example, and other urban areas, we see all religions represented. And so it's just simply not possible just to be educated in one religion. So when we move from this formation of young people in the context of a particular religious tradition, we then move to schools, and contexts which don't have a particular religious character, but we know that there are still many students who identify with particular religions in these contexts as well, and that religious education takes place in these schools as well.

And still that issue of formation is still taking place, right? So I think we need to really bear in mind the important role that this subject has in the way people think about themselves and the way they understand other people in society.

These are all very pertinent points, once again. I think a key element you mentioned was not only within the community, but amongst communities. In an environment such as the UK, where we are rich in, I would say, religious plurality, I think it's a case of persons being cognizant of the differences, yet willing to embrace and learn along the way. I think it's really important to have these dialogues and especially in the form of religious education, where from early ages, persons are taught to share and engage with others and not allow, I would say, indifference to block out or limit their growth, even as individuals within shared community and religious spaces.

To further build on our, I would say, line of questioning, what I wanted to know from you was what do policymakers need to know about religious education to inform their decision making? And not only that, is there something policymakers ought to take away from RE to inform decision making regarding a more cohesive future?

Well I think the most important thing is to understand that a superficial religious education is not sufficient. Religious education has to engage deeply with the theological and philosophical ideas, debates, and scholarship within religious traditions. A superficial and surface level engagement with religions from a more sociological perspective is not sufficient to understand the ways of life, the ideas, the internal diversity of religious traditions.

I'm really an advocate of a very deep and searching form of religious education, which is authentic, which really delves deep into the resources of each religious tradition. And indeed, that's the approach that we take here in the religious studies PGCE here at Cambridge.

Excellent. I like the way that you phrased it. I think oftentimes we may get caught up in the superficiality of a topic, being mere observers of, I say, the philosophy or the underlying thinking process. But to truly engage takes that discourse, to dig deeper, to really explore and engage with each other as a community.

And I'm sure it's a spectacular curriculum as well.

Do any of these values resonate with you and your vision of RE futures? And if so, in what ways?

Absolutely no doubt. I think values and values transmission is going to be of increased importance in the age of artificial intelligence. Our capability to manipulate information to store, receive, communicate information will be increased, but it's the values, it's the ability to evaluate, it's the ability to make decisions, it's the ability to see right from wrong that will enable society to flourish.

And those dispositions, you've mentioned can only be fostered by humanistic education. And the traditions are a brilliant and tried and tested way to improve those capacities of individuals to engage with questions of meaning and import for humanity.

So I think there is a lot at stake. I agree, wholeheartedly with that vision. What I would say is that values infuse what we do and they are . In scholarship and the ideals of a genuine education, but they're best approached obliquely. Because to really understand something like stewardship, it's not enough just to pay some sort of superficial, nod to it in terms of a kind of slogan.

It really has to be student led. In a way that our engagement and development with these dispositions and capacities and ideals actually become real.

That is excellent. And I think it really reiterates what you've said earlier about moving past the superficiality and really delving deeper into the core topics and how it can be explored, especially in light of the AI developments of late.

Where there was always going to be this push for advancement, but at the end of the day, our humanity is always going to be our core strength. And through religious education, we can set a wonderful foundation to ensure persons are well equipped to move forward within society and also ensure that society maintains a sense of flow and cohesion.

But thank you once again, Daniel, for this input. We have truly appreciated the discussion and it has been a pleasure interviewing you today.

Well, Ian, thank you very much. And thank you for inviting me. And I've really enjoyed this conversation too. Thank you so much.

Most definitely. You're most welcome.