What if the quietest voice in the room held the most valuable insight?
In our next episode of the UNFILTERED Series, Daphna and I explore what it really means to be an introvert in an extroverted workplace. We uncover how introversion is defined by energy, not shyness, and why so many workplaces miss out on the best thinking when only the fastest talkers are heard.
Together we highlight practical ways to design meetings and team environments that invite thoughtful contributions, protect energy, and celebrate differences. Daphna shows how introverts can lean into natural strengths like observation, focus, and 1:1 influence, while extroverted leaders can take responsibility for guiding the process, so every voice is valued.
The result is a powerful reminder that leadership is not about volume, yet about creating space for authentic impact.
Listen in to:
Connect with Your Co-Hosts
Daphna Horowitz
https://www.linkedin.com/in/daphnahorowitz/
https://www.facebook.com/PEACSolutions
https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/leadership-live/id1524072573
Amy L. Riley
http://www.courageofaleader.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/amyshoopriley
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Welcome to our podcast series UNFILTERED. This
Amy Riley:is where we have courageous conversations about topics that
Amy Riley:are not always discussed in the mainstream or in the workplace.
Daphna Horowitz:Here we stripaway the polished surface
Daphna Horowitz:and dive into the raw, messy and deeply human topics that we
Daphna Horowitz:don't think it talked about often enough.
Amy Riley:We are your unfiltered hosts. I'm Amy from
Amy Riley:the Courage of a Leader podcast,
Daphna Horowitz:and I'm Daphna from Leadership Live podcast
Daphna Horowitz:with two coaches from two sides of the world who believe that
Daphna Horowitz:real growth happens in the uncomfortable, unspoken moments
Amy Riley:from Workplace trauma to dealing with major life
Amy Riley:changes and taboo topics like grief, imposter syndrome and
Amy Riley:menopause, this is the space where nothing is off limits.
Daphna Horowitz:So if you're ready for honest, bold and
Daphna Horowitz:sometimes messy conversations, let's get into it. You don't
Daphna Horowitz:have to be the loudest in the room to be a powerful leader.
Amy Riley:Today, we are talking about introverts, sometimes
Amy Riley:misunderstood, sometimes underestimated and often
Amy Riley:overlooked.
Daphna Horowitz:Wheel best myths. Share our own experiences
Daphna Horowitz:and dive into why being quiet might just be your greatest
Daphna Horowitz:strength.
Amy Riley:I love it. Let's get unfiltered about being an
Amy Riley:introvert. Let's do it so damn know, we said first that we
Amy Riley:wanted to define what we mean by introversion and extroversion
Daphna Horowitz:absolutely, yeah, and I think it's not what
Daphna Horowitz:people typically think. So I think that's a very important
Daphna Horowitz:thing. The definition Do you want to go ahead,
Amy Riley:yes, and please add so it's a continuum, highly
Amy Riley:extroverted on one side, a preference for highly
Amy Riley:introverted on the other side. So we do also want to clarify
Amy Riley:that it's a preference for how we process and how we gain our
Amy Riley:energy, though, if we say someone has a preference for
Amy Riley:introversion, it doesn't mean that they're not gregarious,
Amy Riley:that they can't be social, right? It's how they get and
Amy Riley:refuel their energy. So someone with a preference for
Amy Riley:extroversion, processing their thoughts out loud and being
Amy Riley:comfortable doing that and gain energy when they are in social
Amy Riley:situations and around other people and building off each
Amy Riley:other's ideas. Whereas an introvert, will you say this
Amy Riley:side?
Daphna Horowitz:Daphna, yeah, so the introvert, and for me,
Daphna Horowitz:the really good distinction that I often use with people who not
Daphna Horowitz:show a way to place themselves or where they think it's
Daphna Horowitz:obviously one thing, but not another, is, where do you get
Daphna Horowitz:energy when you feel drained? So the introvert will get energy,
Daphna Horowitz:but being alone and having quiet time and absorbing some of the
Daphna Horowitz:social or the things that drain them, absorbing it into their
Daphna Horowitz:center, their core, and allowing it to be processed and calmed
Daphna Horowitz:down. So I often say to people at the end of a very busy work
Daphna Horowitz:day, you've had meetings, you've presented, you've worked with
Daphna Horowitz:your team, you've done a whole lot of things. You're tired
Daphna Horowitz:because we get tired. What do you want to do? Then, if you're
Daphna Horowitz:getting battered, to a party, do you think? Yes, that's going to
Daphna Horowitz:restore my energy. I'm going to be, you know, fully alive and
Daphna Horowitz:funny. Let me be social, yeah, and going. And that's going to
Daphna Horowitz:give me a high and a nerf. Or do you go, Oh my gosh, that is the
Daphna Horowitz:worst thing I can think of doing right now. I just need to go
Daphna Horowitz:home, lie down, have some quiet time and regroup. And that's the
Daphna Horowitz:difference. The main difference kind of an added anecdote for
Daphna Horowitz:really looking at if you're an extrovert, you'll go to the
Daphna Horowitz:party and feel on a high afterwards. If you're an
Daphna Horowitz:introvert, you'll go home, quiet dinner, quiet time, maybe
Daphna Horowitz:connecting with family, small, intimate, and then you'll feel
Daphna Horowitz:replenished.
Amy Riley:Yes, and of course, this is a continuum, and
Daphna Horowitz:this is a continuum Absolutely, let's not
Daphna Horowitz:forget that, yeah,
Amy Riley:and you might be someone that resonated with some
Amy Riley:of the things that we said about people that are on the
Amy Riley:extroverted side of the continuum, and some of the
Amy Riley:things that we said about the introverted side, right? And
Amy Riley:you, and it's situational, you might find yourself in different
Amy Riley:places, yeah, depending on the day, the week, the month, the
Amy Riley:year,
Daphna Horowitz:exactly are exactly. Yeah. And I do want to
Daphna Horowitz:add there that people are often surprised, because maybe here's
Daphna Horowitz:a time for us to share. What do we think we are? But people are
Daphna Horowitz:often surprised because they take me for a full on extrovert,
Daphna Horowitz:because I talk fast. I've got a lot of energy, a lot of passion.
Daphna Horowitz:I love being front of room. I do enjoy going to parties, but the
Daphna Horowitz:truth is that I'm a what do you call it? Lacher, a moth? Thora,
Daphna Horowitz:I'm really an introvert inside, because when I've had too much
Daphna Horowitz:of that interaction, that really does feed me and give me energy
Daphna Horowitz:I need. I absolutely need that downtime. I need the downtime to
Daphna Horowitz:just go, gather my thoughts, gather myself, my space, and
Daphna Horowitz:just be on my own for a little bit. So that's I would say I'm
Daphna Horowitz:tending to the introvert side. And let's also define the
Daphna Horowitz:ambivert, which can be both. So I do know that I have ambivert
Daphna Horowitz:qualities, let's just say, because I can do both. But
Daphna Horowitz:tending to introvert, how about you?
Amy Riley:I am extremely extroverted, and of course,
Amy Riley:there are times when I have introverted behaviors and
Amy Riley:preferences, right, depending on how the day the week went, but
Amy Riley:yes, highly extroverted. So this leaves us as two people who I
Amy Riley:think are perfect to have this unfiltered conversation about
Amy Riley:what happens when we're all mixed together in a workplace
Amy Riley:acted to have synchronous and asynchronous collaboration, and
Amy Riley:how does that all unfold? One more
Daphna Horowitz:types of people, yeah, with different
Daphna Horowitz:types of people, and reminding of the continuum on different
Daphna Horowitz:levels of the continuum at different times, in different
Daphna Horowitz:situations. I think that's really just good for awareness,
Amy Riley:exactly, exactly. Also, we're going to use some
Amy Riley:shorthand. In this case. We're going to say extroverts and
Amy Riley:introverts when we mean people with a preference for
Amy Riley:extroversion, or folks with a preference for introversion.
Amy Riley:We're not going to say that whole phrase every time, so
Amy Riley:we're going to shorthand. And many people do in mainstream
Amy Riley:conversations talk about introverts and extroverts, but
Amy Riley:please, we want to everyone to know that it is actually a
Amy Riley:continuum that we all live on day to day. And I'd like to
Daphna Horowitz:just pause there for a moment and just say,
Daphna Horowitz:why is this conversation important? Conversation
Daphna Horowitz:important? Why is it important to talk about it? Okay, okay, so
Daphna Horowitz:there's different preferences, different personality, styles
Daphna Horowitz:and approaches. Why is it important for us in the
Daphna Horowitz:workplace?
Amy Riley:Yes, as I think, and I can get on my soapbox about
Amy Riley:this stamp, I mean, I think so many meetings and interactions
Amy Riley:are set up for the extroverts, and we are missing the best
Amy Riley:thinking from our introverts, right? They're still processing
Amy Riley:and putting together the brilliant idea in their heads,
Amy Riley:and the conversation has already
Daphna Horowitz:run away, and I think that's yeah, such, such an
Daphna Horowitz:important thing to to really talk about, because extroverts
Daphna Horowitz:process their thinking out loud. Actually, they it's not that
Daphna Horowitz:they've formulated their ideas and thoughts and suggestions and
Daphna Horowitz:then spoke about them. They're actually thinking as they're
Daphna Horowitz:speaking. That's their particular skill. You know, they
Daphna Horowitz:can do that, whereas introverts have to process the whole thing
Daphna Horowitz:first and then think about it, and then they will have
Daphna Horowitz:something to say that is adding to and you're adding value to
Daphna Horowitz:the conversation. But if the extrovert and the introvert are
Daphna Horowitz:in the room, the extrovert is going to think loud and think,
Daphna Horowitz:think, think, and come to their conclusion while the introvert
Daphna Horowitz:is still processing. And then, as you said, the conversation
Daphna Horowitz:can run away, because the extrovert thinks, Okay, we've
Daphna Horowitz:discussed it. We've got an outcome, and the introvert
Daphna Horowitz:hasn't said one thing yet. So for me, the extrovert really has
Daphna Horowitz:to be aware of this to make space for the introvert to say,
Daphna Horowitz:what do you think you know? What's coming up for you? What
Daphna Horowitz:are the thoughts you're having in the moment? The introvert
Daphna Horowitz:needs to understand that they can speak, even if they haven't
Daphna Horowitz:processed the whole thing
Amy Riley:as friends, yes, and it could be okay to have a
Amy Riley:couple of
Daphna Horowitz:minutes of silence. Yes, extrovert, hate
Daphna Horowitz:that, right?
Amy Riley:Get here, get me, get me another assignment during
Amy Riley:that time, right? Right? Yeah, for people to gather their
Amy Riley:thoughts, right? Start writing it down. That would be a way
Amy Riley:that everyone on the continuum could participate. And Daphna, I
Amy Riley:know we've got leaders coming to us who are saying, I'm not
Amy Riley:having the level of engagement that I want
Daphna Horowitz:exactly major complaint. Major complaint. Just
Daphna Horowitz:last week, I was working with two founders of an organization,
Daphna Horowitz:and they were saying exactly that to me, and they were
Daphna Horowitz:saying, but we don't think it's our place to, you know, when
Daphna Horowitz:we're having a team meeting, the team has just speak up. They
Daphna Horowitz:actually said, it's not our place ask them for their input.
Daphna Horowitz:We don't need to ask for it. They should just classic to
Daphna Horowitz:extrovert. See, I was leading this company. We're. Some
Daphna Horowitz:introverted people in their team, and they're waiting for
Daphna Horowitz:them to speak up. But the introverts sometimes need that
Daphna Horowitz:invitation, that moment of silence, to really kind of be
Daphna Horowitz:invited into the space and feel that they're invited into the
Daphna Horowitz:space to give their contribution.
Amy Riley:Yes, I'm wanting to go into some of our advice for
Amy Riley:lead. I know
Daphna Horowitz:in this we look at the struggles first. Okay,
Daphna Horowitz:how do you know you're an introvert? Statement, so we've
Daphna Horowitz:got some app one, maybe, let's, let's go there. You know, you
Daphna Horowitz:know you're an introvert, if, and we've got, we came up with
Daphna Horowitz:some good ones that I think will help people recognize the
Daphna Horowitz:introverted side of themselves. So do you want
Amy Riley:to go first you as our introvert? Daphna, will you
Amy Riley:start and say some of these statements that strongly
Amy Riley:resonate with you?
Daphna Horowitz:Okay, so I want to start with the fact that you
Daphna Horowitz:actually feel genuine joy sometimes when someone takes to
Daphna Horowitz:can we reschedule our plans, and this is often relating to social
Daphna Horowitz:plans, right? So, you know, you see the can we reschedule down?
Daphna Horowitz:Someone will go, probably, oh, how can they let me down last
Daphna Horowitz:minute this and I'm going, like, what a relief I get to have an
Daphna Horowitz:evening at home. I don't have to get all dressed up. I can just
Daphna Horowitz:relax, read my book and regroup. And I think that that's
Daphna Horowitz:something that a lot of introverts feel. Yep, even
Daphna Horowitz:though we appreciate social interactions, we love our social
Daphna Horowitz:engagements, but sometimes it's actually okay. We've been given
Daphna Horowitz:a gift that's I've been given, given a gift a night off. Yes,
Daphna Horowitz:yes. How about you?
Amy Riley:Oh, one that I am responding to is your idea of a
Amy Riley:wild Friday night is staying home and not talking to anyone
Amy Riley:on purpose, right? And for me, that's especially if it's been a
Amy Riley:full week, it's been busy, right? My brain has been going
Amy Riley:in different directions. I have gathered that energy and used it
Amy Riley:up right in its energy this time for a refuel. I love
Daphna Horowitz:what you're saying there, because I think it
Daphna Horowitz:relates to our continuum idea where maybe everybody has a
Daphna Horowitz:certain bucket of energy that once it's used up, you need to
Daphna Horowitz:go to that introverted end of the scale to regroup. Just find
Daphna Horowitz:yourself quiet, moment and regroup and and it's true that
Daphna Horowitz:that level of energy is just at different levels for different
Daphna Horowitz:people, and as we said, in different situations, so when
Daphna Horowitz:it's used up, we need to regroup.
Amy Riley:Yeah, and given what is going on in our world right
Amy Riley:now, our climate, our politics, our wars, it's calling for a lot
Amy Riley:of resilience and energy. There's a lot to process and
Amy Riley:think and feel these days, it's just dawning on me that that
Amy Riley:might be pushing us all towards the introverted side of the
Amy Riley:scale in terms of needing that time to regroup, refuel, refuel,
Daphna Horowitz:yeah, and that everyone can gain from that. I
Daphna Horowitz:know that when I work with my extroverted clients, I guess
Daphna Horowitz:even the coaching session is that moment to pause, slow down
Daphna Horowitz:all the activity that's going on around you, and just give
Daphna Horowitz:yourself a moment to reflect and think about what you're doing,
Daphna Horowitz:and that is something that is beneficial to everyone, and
Daphna Horowitz:especially what you're highlighting in our slightly
Daphna Horowitz:chaotic world as it stands at the moment,
Amy Riley:yeah, it's, it's making me think of time for
Amy Riley:three things just popped into my head, the reflection, like you
Amy Riley:were saying, the refueling. What do we all do to refuel? Right?
Amy Riley:Is it take a pottery class? Is it a walk in nature? Is it a
Amy Riley:call with a friend? Right? Like a light form of interaction,
Amy Riley:like what refueled you? And then I just think right now, like we
Amy Riley:all need more planning time, right? In ways that work for us?
Daphna Horowitz:Yes, so you're saying reflection in terms of
Daphna Horowitz:just looking at the past and saying, What am I learning?
Daphna Horowitz:How's it connecting with me? What I want to take from this.
Daphna Horowitz:And then there is that other it could be even a different kind
Daphna Horowitz:of reflection, where we actually planning. You're actually
Daphna Horowitz:thinking about what you want to do and taking some time to plan
Daphna Horowitz:it, instead of always having to respond in the moment, in the
Daphna Horowitz:moment. Yes, I just want to do one more, one more, because I
Daphna Horowitz:love to be an introverted and this is one I really relate to,
Daphna Horowitz:okay, and I know, I know some of my introverted friends also do.
Daphna Horowitz:I've done this. I'm guilty. I think I know which one you're
Daphna Horowitz:gonna say. I've hidden in a bathroom stall at a party just
Daphna Horowitz:to regroup, just to maybe scroll through some memes or something,
Daphna Horowitz:just to get my energy. Back before I go back into the room
Daphna Horowitz:and start to engage again. And I know that I've done this, and
Daphna Horowitz:especially also at networking events or conferences, where, I
Daphna Horowitz:think, for introverts, the energy that it takes to interact
Daphna Horowitz:with people that you don't know as well. I think when it's a
Daphna Horowitz:party or a group with people that you know and they're your
Daphna Horowitz:friends and you appreciate, you can really, you know, go well
Daphna Horowitz:with that again on the continuum, but when it's people
Daphna Horowitz:you don't know, requires even more energy, so that hiding in
Daphna Horowitz:the bathroom I'm guilty of. And I wonder if any of our listeners
Daphna Horowitz:are guilty as well and can relate to that.
Amy Riley:I'm so glad that we're sharing a few of these.
Amy Riley:You might be an introvert, if so that folks don't feel alone,
Amy Riley:because I mean in those moments, and let me tell you, like as an
Amy Riley:extrovert, when I've needed things like that, like now I
Amy Riley:need to hide in the bathroom because I'm overwhelmed, there's
Amy Riley:been just like certain times in life when I've needed that, it
Amy Riley:has felt wrong or shameful or embarrassing, like what it what
Amy Riley:is going on with me as a human being that I need this moment to
Amy Riley:regroup so as long as double click here and be like, you
Amy Riley:know, I think often introverts, or when we're on That
Amy Riley:introverted side of the scale, we can place judgment or a
Amy Riley:negative label or interpretation on that, and I want to say,
Amy Riley:humans, humans, let's not do that
Daphna Horowitz:elaborate taking this because I think here
Daphna Horowitz:we're going, we are really double clicking on, why is it
Daphna Horowitz:hard? Why is it a struggle? And I think what you're highlighting
Daphna Horowitz:there is our own judgment about ourselves and what behaviors are
Daphna Horowitz:okay or not. Okay? Is something wrong with me if I choose to
Daphna Horowitz:hide in the bathroom? Is something wrong with me if the
Daphna Horowitz:doorbell rings and I don't feel like answering it, or if I don't
Daphna Horowitz:feel like having a long phone call at the moment, just don't
Daphna Horowitz:have the energy for it. And the second thing around that is
Daphna Horowitz:sometimes the judgment and the conversation around
Daphna Horowitz:introversion, extroversion makes introverts feel like
Daphna Horowitz:introversion is a flaw rather than a superpower, which it
Daphna Horowitz:really, really is and can be. But the kind of languaging and
Daphna Horowitz:the world around us speaks about being an introvert, like it's
Daphna Horowitz:something that needs to be fixed. So introverts get this
Daphna Horowitz:message from both sides, like themselves, like what's wrong
Daphna Horowitz:with me, and also the outside world of well, if you're an
Daphna Horowitz:introvert, we'll just put in more effort, or give it more
Daphna Horowitz:energy, or just make the effort and go out there, or go to the
Daphna Horowitz:meeting or
Amy Riley:present, share your ideas. Happy, your
Daphna Horowitz:ideas Exactly, exactly. I think that's a real,
Daphna Horowitz:really important point about the struggle.
Amy Riley:Yes, definitely. I've had so many coaches that I've
Amy Riley:worked with that are introverts that, you know, they come and
Amy Riley:they're like, how do I get myself to say the thing during
Amy Riley:the meeting,
Daphna Horowitz:exactly right by how do I
Amy Riley:they feel like they have to change to fit the
Amy Riley:situation?
Daphna Horowitz:It's true, and I think, and we are going to get
Daphna Horowitz:to the practical advice and tips, right, so we will touch on
Daphna Horowitz:that. But I also think that the next level of what the
Daphna Horowitz:consequence of that is that they often feel like they're
Daphna Horowitz:overlooked, and they possibly are, and they possibly are
Daphna Horowitz:because they are not showing up enough. I think one thing that I
Daphna Horowitz:also talk about is doing your own PR work, within your
Daphna Horowitz:business, within your organization, because if you're
Daphna Horowitz:not going to be talking about what you're doing and your
Daphna Horowitz:successes, and not in an arrogant way, look at me, but
Daphna Horowitz:more in a actually informing people and letting people know
Daphna Horowitz:of your involvement in your contribution, people are not
Daphna Horowitz:going to know. And that can lead to being overlooked, being
Daphna Horowitz:underestimated, undervalued, and that does have serious
Daphna Horowitz:consequences for emotions and advancement.
Amy Riley:Yeah, really fear that the concerns of the
Amy Riley:introverts are very real, right? Like, not only if I don't speak
Amy Riley:up in these meetings, not only am I not going to get visibility
Amy Riley:and get thought of for this opportunity or this next
Amy Riley:promotion, like, I'm going to get forgotten, right? I'm not
Amy Riley:seen, I'm not heard, I'm not noticed, and
Daphna Horowitz:I'm going to add to that, and you are, you
Daphna Horowitz:are going to be forgotten. That's what I want to say. And
Daphna Horowitz:maybe that's the hard part, you know? Maybe that's the tough
Daphna Horowitz:conversation here that we are having at the moment, is that
Daphna Horowitz:organizational culture is often 100% of the cases. I think there
Daphna Horowitz:are mechanisms you can put in at work, and maybe that's leaders
Daphna Horowitz:responsibility, and they need to look at how they do that to
Daphna Horowitz:really notice your more quiet employees, to make sure that you
Daphna Horowitz:look. At value add, rather than at loudest voices. But at the
Daphna Horowitz:same time, I think it's for introverts to take
Daphna Horowitz:responsibility for how they're seen and make sure that they
Daphna Horowitz:understand that if they don't do things, and again, I'm going to
Daphna Horowitz:say you can do it in a way that works for you. It doesn't have
Daphna Horowitz:to be loud and proud and uncomfortable. You are going to
Daphna Horowitz:be overlooked. You are going to be forgotten if you do not speak
Daphna Horowitz:up. And the answer you need to do,
Amy Riley:yeah, yeah. And we're not saying that's right. No, we
Amy Riley:know, like we want the opposite of that, but that is often what
Amy Riley:is
Daphna Horowitz:so yeah, yeah. And I think, and here we're
Daphna Horowitz:talking to both sides, both sides taking responsibility as
Daphna Horowitz:an organizational entity, as a leader of an organizational
Daphna Horowitz:entity. How can you make sure that you really are being fair
Daphna Horowitz:in how you evaluate your people and don't just go for the
Daphna Horowitz:obvious kind of indicators? Yeah, and for the people that
Daphna Horowitz:we're talking about, the introverts themselves, how do
Daphna Horowitz:you make sure that you really step up with your superpowers?
Daphna Horowitz:And I know I've been talking about superpowers, I've been
Daphna Horowitz:mentioning it, but we haven't actually said what are they?
Daphna Horowitz:What? Okay, but
Amy Riley:let's go to the superpowers for the introverts,
Amy Riley:and then let's talk advice for Yeah, excellent superpowers of
Amy Riley:the introverts.
Daphna Horowitz:Yes, yes, okay, my number one is observational
Daphna Horowitz:skills. They are able to step back and really read the room
Daphna Horowitz:very well. The extroverts are so busy processing their thoughts,
Daphna Horowitz:their plans, and you know, that kind of very self process, self
Daphna Horowitz:oriented process, whereas the introverts are listening,
Daphna Horowitz:processing and noticing what's going on the room. So they are
Daphna Horowitz:very good observers. They are very good listeners as
Amy Riley:well, and they can take all that content that the
Amy Riley:extroverts are immediately espousing and pull all that
Amy Riley:together and be thoughtful and construct Right? Like add on to
Amy Riley:and synthesize what's being shared.
Daphna Horowitz:Exactly that is being intentional with your
Daphna Horowitz:communication. You're not just gonna say something because you
Daphna Horowitz:want your voice to be heard. You are gonna say something when you
Daphna Horowitz:have something really valuable to contribute. So your
Daphna Horowitz:communication is very intentional.
Amy Riley:It often comes with some great analytical, yeah,
Amy Riley:yeah, yeah. And thinking and focus, yeah, that ability to
Amy Riley:focus and dive deep, dive into exactly matter, exactly, yeah,
Amy Riley:and stay there and stay there for some
Daphna Horowitz:time, exactly, keep the conversation on track,
Daphna Horowitz:keep the goal in mind, and keep working towards that. Yes, I
Daphna Horowitz:think also, another thing that's coming up for me is the power of
Daphna Horowitz:the one on one relationships with introverts. You know, I
Daphna Horowitz:think that there's energy that's required there that's different
Daphna Horowitz:to the the group interaction, energy and introverts tend to be
Daphna Horowitz:better at that.
Amy Riley:Yeah, yeah. Big about that power, if you've got those
Amy Riley:one on one relationships with the key influencers in different
Amy Riley:functional areas inside of your organization or your industry,
Amy Riley:then the power when you do bring an idea forward, you've got the
Amy Riley:folks that are going to listen.
Daphna Horowitz:It's very true. It's very true. That makes me
Daphna Horowitz:think also of level of expertise introverts, because of their
Daphna Horowitz:focus and their analytic often, and we generalizing here again,
Daphna Horowitz:just a quick reminder, the folks and the continue, they're
Daphna Horowitz:generally seen, seen as the experts. So people really vet.
Daphna Horowitz:They have a lot of credibility. People value their input because
Daphna Horowitz:of the level of expertise that they tend to have.
Amy Riley:Yes, absolutely. Just a quick anecdote that jumped
Amy Riley:into my head as the opposite of introversion. Daphna, I am the
Amy Riley:worst training participant, like when I'm like, as an extrovert,
Amy Riley:sitting there in the room, like absorbing the information, like
Amy Riley:either like trying to take it all in and not being able to
Amy Riley:facilitate or say the things or be out loud. Oh, I sit there,
Amy Riley:and I would label it as impatience, but it's that desire
Amy Riley:for the interaction
Daphna Horowitz:isn't that interesting, because I think
Daphna Horowitz:about also, you know, when you have a group process, or even in
Daphna Horowitz:a coaching session, one on one, and at the end of the session,
Daphna Horowitz:we go, what is your takeaway from the session? I don't know
Daphna Horowitz:if you ask that. I'm sure you have some kind of question that
Daphna Horowitz:you ask at the end. And often I have my introverts who will say
Daphna Horowitz:to me, hold on. We've just had those comments. I can't answer
Daphna Horowitz:that now. I've had that happen with extreme introverts. It's
Daphna Horowitz:like, wait, I need to process. We discussed a lot of stuff, and
Daphna Horowitz:I need to really think, and I need to absorb it. And then
Daphna Horowitz:after you ask me. Next time, what I took away, Yes, last
Daphna Horowitz:time, conversation. So that's also just a very interesting and
Daphna Horowitz:a killing and
Amy Riley:I can relate to that, because after a day of
Amy Riley:facilitation, let's just say, with a global group of leaders,
Amy Riley:there's a lot going on. I might have a co facilitator. Often,
Amy Riley:I've had that CO facilitator ask me at the end of the end of the
Amy Riley:day, what do you think about this? What do you think about
Amy Riley:this? Who do you think are most engaged participants? Who do you
Amy Riley:think this? And I have been so out there with people like
Amy Riley:present in the moment, doing the things, reacting to things in
Amy Riley:the moment, that actually, then I feel like I can't answer that
Amy Riley:question. I need to, I need some time to process.
Daphna Horowitz:You know, what I'm loving about this
Daphna Horowitz:conversation is that I'm really realizing how now, as we've been
Daphna Horowitz:talking introverts extroverts, the power of both and what it
Daphna Horowitz:really means. What's coming up for me is how both can get value
Daphna Horowitz:from, first of all, seeing the other, but also practicing some
Daphna Horowitz:of the skills of the other, you know, of the other side. So
Daphna Horowitz:something that's coming out for me is really play along that
Daphna Horowitz:continuum place yourself on in any given moment and say, Would
Daphna Horowitz:it be valuable? Would it serve me, or the situation or the
Daphna Horowitz:process, to step a little bit to either side and see how I can
Daphna Horowitz:just train my muscles, my brain muscle, to do something a little
Daphna Horowitz:bit different.
Amy Riley:I love it. And you know, Daphna, in preparing for
Amy Riley:this conversation, this conversation can often go in the
Amy Riley:direction of what introverts need to do differently to fit
Amy Riley:into this construct that we have going on in the workplace. And I
Amy Riley:was looking as an extrovert, what can we do? And lots of
Amy Riley:times, we're the first ones out there with content. Here are my
Amy Riley:ideas for this challenge or this opportunity or this problem. We
Amy Riley:could also be the first ones out there to talk about the process.
Amy Riley:How is our conversation going? Who's quiet in this moment? Who
Amy Riley:do we need to hear from? How could we make some constructs so
Amy Riley:that we have a shared document that gets added to before,
Amy Riley:during and after the meeting, and be the first ones out there
Amy Riley:with information about process and how we manage our energy,
Amy Riley:right? If I start to talk about my energy and what refuels me
Amy Riley:and how I manage it, right, that can open up a conversation for
Amy Riley:the full team to talk about what works for them, to co create
Amy Riley:norms and ways of operating that actually work for everybody.
Daphna Horowitz:I love that. I love what you're saying, and I
Daphna Horowitz:want to even make it more practical, and to say you spoke
Daphna Horowitz:about process, speaking to the process, and not just the
Daphna Horowitz:content. And I think firstly, things like agendas for a
Daphna Horowitz:meeting. I know a lot of people can go without agendas for a
Daphna Horowitz:meeting, and they go, what do we need an agenda for? I know
Daphna Horowitz:exactly what I'm exactly what I'm going to talk about, and
Daphna Horowitz:I'll leave the conversation. It will be mine. But if you've got
Daphna Horowitz:introverts in the room, that agenda will help them get their
Daphna Horowitz:mind set or the frame around it so that they can start thinking
Daphna Horowitz:ahead of time. Oh, what are my thoughts about it? And then
Daphna Horowitz:actually come ready to contribute, things like inviting
Daphna Horowitz:people, everyone in the room, doing around, if you
Daphna Horowitz:brainstorming ideas, do around so that everybody and around
Daphna Horowitz:means asking everybody around the table to contribute their
Daphna Horowitz:thoughts and inviting them into the space. Yeah, and sure,
Daphna Horowitz:there's more, you know? Yeah.
Amy Riley:Well, these are all. These are ideas for leaders as
Amy Riley:well. Right? Use agenda, exactly. Use collaboration,
Amy Riley:documents, tools, processes that folks before, during, after the
Amy Riley:meeting. So if that person with a preference for introversion
Amy Riley:puts together their thinking and it's two days later, they've got
Amy Riley:a place to immediately add exactly that I 100%
Daphna Horowitz:and I love I love that because it also
Daphna Horowitz:sparked a thought for me, a piece of advice that I gave one
Daphna Horowitz:of my extroverted leaders, who we speaking about agendas and
Daphna Horowitz:how to run meetings in a way that everybody can contribute
Daphna Horowitz:and and add value and unfair. Something about agendas, and he
Daphna Horowitz:goes, No, for my team meeting, I don't do agendas for the clients
Daphna Horowitz:and this and this. I do agendas, but not for the so I said, Why
Daphna Horowitz:not do it for the team? That's where you feel you're not
Daphna Horowitz:getting the same level of productivity and effectiveness.
Daphna Horowitz:So he said, but I don't want to sit and do that. And I said,
Daphna Horowitz:give it to one of your you don't have to do it yourself, give it
Daphna Horowitz:to one of the team members to own that part of the process. So
Daphna Horowitz:you can also delegate it if they're things you don't want to
Daphna Horowitz:do, but you know will serve the process. Find the right person
Daphna Horowitz:to do that.
Amy Riley:Love it. Love it. Leader. We also spoke
Daphna Horowitz:about energy. You did bring up the point of
Daphna Horowitz:energy. And I also wanted to bring it into more practice.
Daphna Horowitz:Call terms of, how do we really look at that and and bring
Daphna Horowitz:different people's energies into the room? I don't know if
Daphna Horowitz:something's coming up for that for you around there.
Amy Riley:So, so an extrovert might want to have working
Amy Riley:meetings, right? Like, let's talk this through. Let's do this
Amy Riley:side by side. Let's, you know, have input and build on each
Amy Riley:other's ideas. Introverts might want to make sure that they've
Amy Riley:got time in their calendar for deep thinking, right for focused
Amy Riley:time for refueling their energy, making sure that there, there is
Amy Riley:a a lunch break or an afternoon solitary walk,
Daphna Horowitz:exactly. And I'm thinking that even in long
Daphna Horowitz:board meetings or conferences, make sure that there are breaks.
Daphna Horowitz:Make sure that there are enough breaks for people to go and just
Daphna Horowitz:have that quiet time cup of coffee, whatever it is, and then
Daphna Horowitz:come back into the so. So schedule regular breaks for the
Daphna Horowitz:people who need them,
Amy Riley:and they're longer than you think that they need to
Amy Riley:be. I mean, we are always trying to cram so much information into
Amy Riley:that precious in person time. But yeah, don't leave your
Amy Riley:introverts absolutely exhausted by the end of it
Daphna Horowitz:exactly, exactly, nice, wow.
Amy Riley:Don't confuse silence with disengagement. Yes.
Daphna Horowitz:In fact, allow spaces for silence. Yes, yes. Do
Daphna Horowitz:your best thinking and most creative ideas come up when
Daphna Horowitz:there's opportunities for silence.
Amy Riley:Allow multiple modes of contribution, right? So it
Amy Riley:might be that silent individual thinking. Now talk it through
Amy Riley:with a partner, right? Now, let's talk it through in small
Amy Riley:groups or talk it as a full group. I mean, we have these
Amy Riley:virtual collaboration, video conferencing tools, right? And
Amy Riley:we don't use all of the features,
Daphna Horowitz:learn how to use them, learn how to use them
Daphna Horowitz:well, so that you can get the level of engagement that you
Daphna Horowitz:want absolutely.
Amy Riley:Yeah. And if you have some introverts on your team and
Amy Riley:you want to get people talking, throw them just in paired
Amy Riley:breakouts, right? What are your ideas? Take five minutes talk
Amy Riley:this through. Or, like we said, have the silent time, play with
Amy Riley:different modes of processing information, generating ideas.
Amy Riley:Be clear on what this part of the meeting or the conversation
Amy Riley:is about.
Daphna Horowitz:Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And I'm
Daphna Horowitz:thinking about, I know that, and I guess there's something in
Daphna Horowitz:here for the extroverts and the introverts, but I know that the
Daphna Horowitz:introverts really, really appreciate and crave getting to
Daphna Horowitz:the point. So something around that being aware of when the
Daphna Horowitz:conversation has now digressed and it's not coming to the point
Daphna Horowitz:that you want to. So both sides are other. The introverts use
Daphna Horowitz:your focus skills and listening skills to really get to the
Daphna Horowitz:essence on the of the conversation, and the extroverts
Daphna Horowitz:encourage the thinking and the expansion of thinking while
Daphna Horowitz:being aware that it might tire some of your team members out,
Daphna Horowitz:or, you know, people that you're talking to?
Amy Riley:Yes, do we wrap with some reflection questions? Yes,
Amy Riley:I think that's a great idea. Yes. And this is for ties that
Amy Riley:we find ourselves on the introversion side of the
Amy Riley:continuum is, I guess
Daphna Horowitz:this is, I guess this episode is about
Daphna Horowitz:being an introvert, while for the extroverts, actually also
Daphna Horowitz:being aware of what it means to be an introvert and how they can
Daphna Horowitz:contribute to create kind of a more holistic workspace.
Amy Riley:Let's go through these. Daphna, do you ever feel
Amy Riley:pressured to perform
Daphna Horowitz:extra vision? I think that's a great question.
Daphna Horowitz:Here's one, how do you recharge after intense people time?
Amy Riley:What introvert trait has secretly helped you the most
Amy Riley:in leadership or business?
Daphna Horowitz:Lovely, lovely. And I think also think about if
Daphna Horowitz:you've ever been underestimated because you were quieter. And I
Amy Riley:think this last one is for everyone. How do you
Amy Riley:protect your energy?
Daphna Horowitz:Yes, I think that is actually for everyone,
Daphna Horowitz:extroverts and introverts. Protecting energy is your energy
Daphna Horowitz:is a really important resource, and you want to be able to
Daphna Horowitz:protect it really important.
Amy Riley:This is work that everyone needs to do. Leaders,
Amy Riley:introverts, extroverts, these are challenging times. We've got
Amy Riley:challenging problems on our plate. Plates. We've got
Amy Riley:interesting opportunities on our plates. We need everybody's best
Amy Riley:thinking to make this happen. So how do we work with our
Amy Riley:different preferences to get everybody's best thinking in the
Amy Riley:space Exactly?
Daphna Horowitz:And I think the thought that I want to leave you
Daphna Horowitz:our listeners with is not what's better, introvert, extrovert,
Daphna Horowitz:or, How do I become more of an extrovert if I'm an introvert?
Daphna Horowitz:Or how do I become more of an introvert if I'm an expert
Daphna Horowitz:extrovert? But rather, how do each of of the ends of the
Daphna Horowitz:continuum? Let's just say, how do we use our strength, instead
Daphna Horowitz:of just trying to fit in, find your strengths within your
Daphna Horowitz:preference and see how you leverage those to really be at
Daphna Horowitz:your best, instead of trying to fit in to what you think the
Daphna Horowitz:world is expecting of you. Excellent.
Amy Riley:I think that's a great question to end on. Thank
Amy Riley:you my introverted friend.
Daphna Horowitz:Thank you my extroverted friend. And yes, if
Daphna Horowitz:you enjoyed listening to this episode, please do share it with
Daphna Horowitz:people you may think can benefit and leave us a review or a
Daphna Horowitz:comment. We'd love to hear from you, and we'd love to hear about
Daphna Horowitz:your ideas for more topics that you'd like to hear us talking
Daphna Horowitz:about on unfiltered.
Amy Riley:Stay courageous. Stay unfiltered.
Daphna Horowitz:That's a wrap on this episode of unfiltered,
Daphna Horowitz:where we have courageous conversations about topics that
Daphna Horowitz:are not often discussed in depth. We hope this conversation
Daphna Horowitz:sparked something in you, whether it's a new perspective,
Daphna Horowitz:a moment of reflection, or just the reassurance that you're not
Daphna Horowitz:alone.
Amy Riley:If you found this episode meaningful, please share
Amy Riley:it with someone who needs to hear it, and if you have a topic
Amy Riley:that you'd love for us to tackle, let us know we are
Amy Riley:always up for conversations that don't get talked about enough.
Daphna Horowitz:Don't forget to subscribe. Leave a review, and
Daphna Horowitz:connect with us on LinkedIn. All our details are in the show
Daphna Horowitz:notes, because the best conversations don't end here
Amy Riley:until next time. Stay curious, stay courageous and
Amy Riley:stay unfiltered.