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In this episode, I sit down with my Maximillian Bartel, someone who I now consider a brother, after our shared experience at a recent Sacred Sons event. Together we dive into a profound journey of self-discovery that has been catalyzed by our experiences with this transformational mens group. Our conversation takes us through of inner transformation, beginning with the sparks of change in adolescence and leading to the powerful realizations of our adulthood. I open up about the metamorphosis from stage fright to storytelling, sharing how embracing vulnerability has been pivotal in not just my personal growth, but also in shaping this podcast into a vehicle for authentic expression. As we talk about re-acclimating to life, after such a profound experience, we discuss cultural intricacies, and the courage to voice our truths. The depth of our brotherhood becomes a beacon for anyone seeking connection and self-awareness.

I invite you to join us in this episode as we uncover the strength found in authentic connections and the remarkable impact they have on our lives. There's a certain magic in this discussion—a blend of vulnerability, gratitude, and profound understanding—that I can't wait to share with you. Whether it's exploring the subtleties of introversion or the nuanced perspectives on monogamy, our chat promises to resonate deeply.

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Key Takeaways

00:00 Brotherhood, Connection, and Personal Journeys

07:39 Journey of Self-Discovery and Inner Transformation

21:45 Finding Voice Through Podcasting

29:25 Creating a Podcast

35:51 Podcast Host's Evolution and Growth

46:50 Shifted Perspectives

51:34 A Grateful and Vulnerable Discussion

Tweetable Quotes

"I can't always prevent it from happening, but the conscious reminder through these conversations, through these connections, to slow down. I don't always need to have the immediate answer and say what's on my mind in an effort to either defend myself or protect myself or reduce any tension that's in the room."

"I have absolutely no problem admitting that I don't know anything and that I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing. Maybe that's my superpower."

"There's a huge development also that I see in myself as a host, where I just feel like less of... and it also varies from episode to episode I'm talking to a different human, there will be a different energy present, so I'm not able to do it the same to the same degree, but I notice as sort of like development when it comes to the need of straight coming up with the next answer and having everything ready and set and whatever I don't, and there will be a lot of letting things land in my podcast."

Resources Mentioned

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maximilian-bartel/

Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-out-looking- in/id1660121094

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@goingoutlookingin

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/maxibartel

Podcast Junkies Website: podcastjunkies.com

Podcast Junkies YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Podcastjunkies/

Podcast Junkies Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/podcastjunkiesjunkies/

Podcast Junkies Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/podcastjunkies

Podcast Junkies Twitter: https://twitter.com/podcast_junkies

Podcast Junkies LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/podcastjunkies

The Podosphere: https://www.thepodosphere.com/

Podcast Index, Value4Value & NewPodcastApps: https://podcastindex.org/

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Mentioned in this episode:

Podcast Blueprint 101

Maxie Bartell, my brother. Thank you so much for joining me on podcast junkies. Yeah, man, thank you so much for having me. I miss your smile on your face, man.

Well, here it is, here it is man.

I'm really grateful and honored that we have the ability to do this For the benefit of a listener. Maxie and I connected at a Sacred Sons event. I'm sure some of you are already tired of me talking about Sacred Sons on this podcast, but it's been an amazing journey for me and it's crazy to see how much it's been a part of my life in such a short period of time. I started with a very uncomfortable registration process for EMX in Vernon, just outside Seattle, which seems a lifetime ago, but it's only this year. It was in May and then very quickly I was like what is this medicine? This is wild. I talked about it on previous episodes. Then I said I got to get to another one and sign up for Convergence and that's where we met.

That was in LA and in Glendale, and I just had an immersion, a two-day immersion last weekend with our brother, rob O'Keefe from our circle, hawthorne Clan. So it's been a crazy whirlwind of brotherhood medicine and obviously there's a lot to integrate and we connected. Obviously, when you told me you had a podcast, I was like, well, you got to come on podcast junkies and I think it's been so interesting to see that we have this WhatsApp group that we've created where we continue to check in. So I've been following your journey and we'll get into all of it so much to cover with you. And so, in the spirit of what we do at Sacred Sons, let's have a little check in and see where we're at.

Because those have been really helpful for me, and that's something we do and the organization does when we're in these containers at the start of these days, at the end of the days, and what I've found for myself. It's been helpful because a lot of times we don't do that, we don't see where we're at, we don't check in and we just go through life and we just go, go, go, and I think it's a helpful reminder. So what's alive for you?

Maxi, checking in from Mannheim, germany, feeling light in the shadow, the light in the shadow man, the duality of the human experience, that's what's alive with me. There's a lot of beautiful things happening. There's a lot of those kind of conversations happening the last two days and a lot of expansion, and then there is so much contraction as well after arriving back in Germany. Everything is smaller here. It's just tight and also like just how everything is constructed. I just look around and I just spend so much time in this very room now and I feel that on an emotional, spiritual, physical level, I feel it the walls are caving in. So that is present, that's alive.

But then there is also so much light alive, so much beauty alive, gratitude alive. I mean, what the fuck we're doing? This here, like this is awesome, you know, and this is genuine connection between two humans and something that was born out of sacred suns and something that gave me so much in such a short amount of time. So, yeah, the light in shadow, the shadow breathing in my neck, reminding me of what I need to work on, what I need to face, what I need to still do, still become, and then there's beingness, with gratitude and presence and love and light with that checking out.

Yeah, man.

Thank you for that. That's amazing. So where am I at?

Yeah, man.

Conscious of the need to move from my brain to my heart. It's been an ongoing journey for me and it's something that I'm always conscious of that I let the business in my head dictate how my day goes and I've done that for a lot of my life, and doing this work has made me aware of how important it is to at least recognize when it's happening. I can't always prevent it from happening, but the conscious reminder through these conversations, through these connections, to slow down. I don't always need to have the immediate answer and say what's on my mind in an effort to either defend myself or protect myself or reduce any tension that's in the room. I think, when I think about the reasons why I blurred out something or tried to say something funny, it's probably related to some sort of discomfort that I feel with the space that I'm in, the environment that I'm in.

And I think, to your point, doing some of this work has made me aware of how important it is to just get into my heart. Get into my heart and even the intention to get into my heart, if I don't always arrive there is really important. And for full transparency this is the first time I've had a check-in before starting an episode, and it's so interesting because it's so important, because it's probably something I should start doing with my guests, and just to reset, because we all come in, we're ready to go, ready to talk, ready to jam, and we don't do that check-in, we don't do that slow down. So I'm looking at the published episodes, so I've gotten 320 plus 330, plus episodes.

So, good time, as we get to around the 333 mark, to build that in and think of that.

I'm always looking to grow as a podcast host and looking to add more connection with my guests and it's a really exciting time for me every time I see an invite on the calendar that shows up because of a booking and I'm like, oh, this is a great time, we got a connection coming up. And I always tell people as a podcast host, if you're not looking forward to these calls, you're probably not inviting the right people on. So I'm great for that opportunity and, yeah, I think it's so great. I appreciate this connecting with you. So we'll cover your whole journey and, obviously, leading up to you starting the podcast and what that's done in the doors, that it's open for you. So talk a little bit about your background and maybe considering how we met through Sacred Sons, what were you looking for when they come on your radar, when you thought about that time, how you felt in your body as you were registering and what was going on for you and what was going on in your world back then?

All right, man, it's a big one, hidden the ground running. Okay, yeah, man, I was quite aware of the situation today, going into this conversation, turning the tables, me sitting on this side of the table and having to, but also wanting to and looking forward to share what I went through and would got me here. So just another like thank you for this platform, for this opportunity. First of all, man, my life it's like colorful, it's everything but linear, and I asked my guests at the end of the show, most of the times, were they're proud of, and myself I actually would have a hard time answering that question because of the word proud, you know, and pride, but I'm just grateful to have listened to my heart all throughout. Basically, I was just not in the best way. I was just unable to ignore that voice and that sometimes that screams, sometimes that whisper of my heart craving and experience craving something. So I was literally following that through childhood and then through my teenage years, which for me is the origin of the journey inward, because changes needed to be made, man, I needed to do some adjustments because the way that I was going through the world was clearly not working. So I was just there was a lot of resistance, there was a lot of pain and rejection and all of that and turbulence with the teenage years, and that just led me to a conclusion.

A couple of experiences come to mind quite vividly of just this realization, and we're speaking about me being 15, 16, having a deep realization. I remember actually one very moment, like in my mom's house. It's very random, but I just went down the stairs to get my bike from the cellar, from the garage, and I just walked there and I just had this download of just like I am alone. I am so alone Like I need to just clearly things. I need to change and I want to change because cannot go on like this. It's just really feeling not part of the community, not part of anything really, and that sent me onto this whole thing of all right, where do I start? What do I change? Okay, I guess I change how I interact with people. That might be, might be something, and so I started outside. You know, I started like how can I dress, how can I walk, how can I talk, how can I do all of these things in order to change my reality and draw people in who accept me as I am and from that outside in approach that I don't know.

I obviously was also not really true to myself, but I didn't know any better. So that was just the route that I was pursuing, but it taught me a lot. And then I navigated the high school years and that and just always felt sort of misplaced and sort of different. But I wasn't in an environment.

As you, all of us know, when we grow up and we go to school and it's growing up and under the same roof as our parents and being there in this environment, that's like not a chosen environment, right, we are put there and so there is not much say that we have in the matter. So, having realized that and then having some sort of like, sprinkles of experiences, that sort of like showed a different path. So when going, for example, on holidays and meeting people for the first time and they interacting with me based on the human I am, at that very moment, I was like getting a sort of like, a sense of wow, this is how the waters of life can also taste. They can meet me right where I am, without the story of like, whatever I did or whatever I said five years ago or whatever, and that was so refreshing to me. That was like the big sort of personal development start and spark that was lit and yeah man.

So I'm curious Different mode yeah.

There's a lot there to unpack and you talked about this experience at 15 or 16. I don't know that I feel like I had no an awareness of where I was at that age and maybe part of it is just how some of that is more present now for you know, later generations to become aware. But you grew up in Germany, so there's misconceptions or preconceived notions about what life is like in Germany and how people are, you know, very buttoned down and there's a conservative culture, you know in Germany, so you know you can maybe speak to some of that. But I imagine for you, and having interacted with you and hung out with you, I can feel your heart and I can sense that this awakening and this presence took this curiosity to want to know more, to want to be more. That's a rare thing for someone to experience younger at that age and so did you feel it as something that was very different than what was happening in the world around you.

Yeah, like, let me just say like that it feels amazing. I really enjoyed us right now this experience because it was also an observation of recent times Very few people asked genuine questions right, and I genuinely curious about other people, although there is so much we can learn by listening. So I appreciate that and, you know, I moved on like I would have. I can now, sitting here with 29, having done the work on myself that I have, I can answer this question in a different way. A couple of not even so long ago, I would have not answered it the way that I will do because I was afraid of I don't know how people would see that and take it, but I will say that I knew from a very early age on that.

There is something different and maybe for my orbit, special, like in this incarnation this time around, in this body suit, I will do things different than a lot of people around me and obviously I couldn't put my finger on it. I didn't, didn't know what that was, still don't really know what it is, but and I certainly obviously questioned that when I was younger, like big time and growing up in Germany. I don't know if that helps, potentially not, but obviously I don't know it any other way, so I wouldn't be able to tell you. You know, I didn't grow up, I don't know, in another country or, like was raised by I don't know, in different nationalities or something. Basically, I just had a sense of and I can say that now, looking back of always being interested in these deeper things of life and asking questions and being always very connected to my inner self and voice.

That's all I can really say.

But did you feel it as something that was different than what you were seeing in the world around you? Or did you find like-minded souls? Were you able to connect? Or did you always this constant feeling of like I'm a little bit different than the people around me?

Yeah, yeah, I know where you're getting and I didn't answer your question precisely. Yeah, so thanks for like putting that in a different way. Again, I don't think I would have understood. To be honest, I don't think I would have registered if people had the same thing Because, to be frank, I don't think people noticed about me looking at me from the outside.

I don't think they knew really what was going on internally, so in the same way, I was not able to tell and it took a good amount of time. It took a good amount of time to find like-minded individuals. I guess the first time really being, you know, 18, going abroad, traveling Australia for a year, that's really where I was like, oh my okay.

Like there's wow, we have all those people been hiding, you know.

So that was the first exposure to these kind of frequencies, yeah, and that ignited further sort of like, sparked the fire and, just like you know and this is also where being human comes in, you know, we it helps on a very sort of like inside, looking introverted, contemplative journey. It helps, it still helps to get affirmation and confirmation and approval and sort of a mirror of sort of yeah, I feel the same way, man, or like, yeah, I know how that feels and stuff like this sort of you know, finding peers and stuff. It is important, it certainly was for me. Although everything needed to be realized within myself, I still enjoyed it to be around people who were like, yeah, man, I completely feel you and know how that is.

What were your plans when you were? You know, when you think about university, you know, did you have goals? Were you trying to? Were you looking for a specific type of job or were you like? Was that the antithesis of where your journey was taking you and just letting life carry you wherever you wanted to go? Like what was your, and it's hard to think about it and place yourself in that mindset back then. But did you have a quote unquote plan? No, absolutely not.

No absolutely not, man. I had absolutely no plan and I was and to some degree I still am lost in the world as it is set up today, still finding my way, and it always took me longer than the peers around me to make decisions, although obviously within taking more time, I also made a decision to take more time. So, yeah, man, no, I did not have any plan. When leaving high school, for example, I did not know at all what was going on, which obviously was fed by that internal sort of introspective drive that I have innate within me that, just you know this so sometimes seemed as a very simple decision or next step. For me, it was like this huge thing, and that was also because I was and that's like a downfall, I think, of our generation, quite frankly of our like a human kind. You know, I was just in my head like so much.

So I was just like so much in my head and that made things just like very difficult. And but, yeah, in my own time I came up and just like one step, one thing after the other, like the onion was just peeled layer by layer, and I was just like, okay, well, that is funny because I'm actually trying to get out of like living my life like that. So let's see how that'll unfold in the future. But, like until now, I basically just went with the next layer, so I didn't really have this huge, like big trajectory that I was following. I was more like leaving high school.

Okay, so there's this thing of like traveling. It seems appealing. Okay, so I need to earn money to do so, right, so let me find a job to it that helps me do that, which then led me to go to work in a warehouse of Aldi, the supermarket, right, and pack. You know, do we be in a warehouse and pack the packages and stuff? And then that was my next step, and then I went on a journey and then I then I came back from Australia, again not having a plan. And then for the next step, which was then sort of like this first sort of like tip like tipping the toe into the waters of the corporate, of like a professional work world, whatever sort of thing like into these waters. I then like was like okay, so I guess I'm sort of like a, I guess I'm like open and I can.

I'm interested in media because I was playing music my whole life playing guitar, playing drums, playing in all sorts of bands and stuff. And I was like okay, so music is a thing that's definitely like present in my life, so that could be something. So I might just do an internship and go to the radio. You know, that might be something, because that will help me maybe to figure out if that's something. And then the internship Out of that was like okay, yeah, that was okay, it's not like radio that I want to do. But. And then the next step was okay.

So, yes, studying, looking at my grades, the options are limited, so might have to be something a little bit creative and haven't been really like a, like a maths and sort of like a huge, huge numbers guy. And then came to be like okay, but at the same time, you know you want to maybe do something that's grounded and whatever. And so I ended up studying business administration with a focus on media and communication. So that was that, you know. And then the next three years you know that was set in stone and for the next three years, and then I, that's just life.

What's interesting is you're articulating. It's almost like you're verbalizing what the busy mind is thinking and you're living it through your life and you're like, oh, what should I do? And so you're living it out and trying different things. So it sounds like, you know, because of your love for media and engaging with instruments and this performative aspect and your initial draw to radio, it sounds like the business administration stuff, and so all these pieces you know sounds like they're leading you towards this idea of podcasting. So I'm wondering like did you start by listening first or how did it come on your radar podcasting?

Oh man, that came into my life way down the road. Way down the road because I didn't have anything to say.

At least I felt like that. So I was just like really listening, although I was also talking a lot, but not on the microphone. So, and actually, while as I'm telling this story, I realized that, yeah, probably should get some sort of like pitch training or something like that to make the story sound more I don't know, to connect the dots in a more elegant way or something like that, or like come up with sort of like a silver lining and something that I always knew on the horizon.

But it's not something that comes naturally.

And I have taken, like, speaking classes and I remember, when I first showed up, that the first couple of days they're like I'm like I have no idea what I'm going to talk about.

And then there's like, well, just write down what are the impactful things that have happened in your life.

You know going down this path and how it led to you and the impetus. You know you're listening, so I imagine you're listening, you're being inspired by some of this content. There's a big step, because most people never make that step. They do have, I believe everyone has a story and that doesn't. Everyone doesn't have a podcast right, so there's people that don't feel like their story is worthy of telling or don't feel like they have the courage to actually speak. You know, stage fright is a real thing, whether it's on a real stage or it's on a virtual stage like a podcast. So I'm curious, as you think through those things and as you're all paths leading to the start of your show, what was going on up for you?

Yeah, I appreciate it, man, it's Like, and as I was speaking that out and having like hearing you speak on that and Having you share what you just shared, I was just like, well, there is like something that I always did Across all of this journey and that is, like I said in the very beginning, just what I did now, like I have absolutely no, maybe that's my superpower, I don't know, I Don't have any problem Admitting that I don't know anything and that I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing.

And to be in also down the line and professional sort of environments, dude man, I was just like Hammering walls down wherever, because I was just like sometimes introducing what I in hindsight found out, just like a whole different energy of honesty and Vulnerability, because I just have absolutely no problem with that, I Don't know why, because also I like to beat the drum of and feeding into a different narrative of, like I think there is in my personal journey. There's always been things that I gained from being vulnerable and open and Never lost something. Really, I was always met with humanity and sort of benevolence and people who are like Resonating with something and even if they did not to the same degree, I was also able to navigate that and I knew innately sort of like that that says more about them, that it says about me. So yeah, but now I'm actually I'll be a good guest and I'll actually go back to answering your question, man.

So yeah, the podcast came.

I did like five attempts or something like that to start, I had like Different ideas and something like that. So I actually went into acting after finishing my bachelor degree, okay. So I was like, okay, if I don't do it now, I never do it. I want to do something creatively. I want to at least give it a shot. So it was like either music or it was like create, like acting and expressive arts. And, with that being said, I was like, okay, I'm gonna do a podcast about acting and about my journey and all that. And then I started to record a couple of like Snippets of what I thought was going to be a podcast, but I was way too much in my head about it, so that didn't see the light of day. Then I went into like some what-of-an-idea of like an interview podcast, had beautiful people on, conducted three, four interviews, listened back to it and thought it was absolutely horrible again, how.

I showed up. Most podcasters don't feel bad, oh my god.

And how I interviewed those people and, man, I was just like so in my head about it again. So, basically, it was just my growth that was not at this stage, or like my Comfortability with myself, that allowed me to actually share what. And then it was 2022, in winter. Man, just the universe providing again, you know, setting me up on that whole journey and trajectory that I'm on right now, turning my life upside down, set on return.

I'm 29, so all of that energy was basically present and it basically Gave me the gift of a job falling away. So my that part of my existence crumbled, but then Gifted me with the opportunity of more time and space in my life. So it was like, okay, what am I gonna do with that? And then, synchronistically, it was really I was going on eBay Finding a zoom recorder that somebody was selling and I happened to be away Like just like five minutes down the road from where I was at with the good, with my girlfriend at the time, when I was looking at it On my phone and I was just okay, it's got to be a sign. So I went, pick that thing up and that zoom recorder just started podcasting because it made the. It made it so easy to record, also outdoors, because I wanted to take it out with me, hence the name going out, looking in.

So that was the start of that, like I was, literally because I wanted To get out of my head right, and so I had to come up with sort of like a digital technology setup that allowed me to Express from a place where I'm just like unable to get in my head, and that was what I found to be very easy to do in nature, and so I just took walks in the park Next to my house and literally just shared what's alive within, and that was the start of going out, looking in. Obviously, that's the last thing I'm gonna say regarding this. My whole journey led me to it.

Obviously, I can only speak about the things that I speak about Because I did what I did in the last 10 years of, like, taking in an inventory and living in a Zen Buddhist monastery and meditating the shit out of, like my life, I was just like thinking that there was the way to go and renouncing everything and doing this and doing all these spiritual practices and Engaging in all of these like hippie environments and like every little tiny step across the way, let me to me being able to pick up a zoom recorder and just Share from the heart. Yeah, okay, what are you gonna share about?

it Sounds like the name has a couple of different meanings for you, because you talk about going out and it's the physical act of going out and having these interviews and obviously that creates a whole different environment Because you're now, you're connecting with nature and you're there with the person, as opposed to like a remote, like we're doing.

But it also sounds like it's going out of your head. Getting out of your head like being able to like either Release what's what you're holding inside your head or just by virtue of you having this conversation, now you're focused on that person and you're not in your head because you're focused on the person. So I've definitely I found that as a podcast host, it's helpful because I stay out of my head if I'm focused on the guest, right, because I can't be thinking about myself if I'm thinking about you. So it's interesting to see how that dynamic is played out. So what were those early days like when you got started? Did you have a format? Did you know, like, who you wanted to speak to or what you wanted to do? I think I know the answer, but go ahead.

Yes and no. So I had like I was coming up with a con, with a concept, and that was to satisfy the voice in my head and and that's sort of like to address that the inner child who wants to feel seen, heard and loved and understood and be safe, not do something completely irrational, and all that. So I was sort of feeding that and I guess, in relation to maybe how different, like very creative, people would approach that a podcast, I was still like super much up in my head about it but compared to where I was coming from, I was highly intuitive man. I was taking the leap of faith with that thing. You know, I was just like really sharing from the heart, although you know I spent hours designing the cover art and all that, and going out looking in was also. Obviously it was not like a. I did make a list of names and then I had going out looking was one of them and then I sat with it for a bit and so it was within my Level of comfortability, it was intuitive and so and then I went out and like yeah, it was basically me sharing About the topics that were alive, but you know that meant at the time and it still is.

Its spirituality is a lot of like sort of spirituality, and especially yoga as a vehicle of self-discovery and modality of taking in an inventory and listening and returning back to source and who I really am. So that was, I guess, like an overarching theme and I came up with going out looking in the podcast about the big questions of life, personal growth, spirituality. So it's like, why are we here? Where are we going, what are we actually doing here? And then it went very quickly from going out looking in by myself to going out looking in with people, meaning guests, and that obviously turned the whole thing upside down and actually introduced me to the idea of, okay, this is gonna be literally a interview podcast and it's not gonna be about me, and so actually that's also how I start my episodes, how I go about the whole thing, how I view it.

Harry, for me, going out looking in, everything I'm doing with this it doesn't have anything to do with me, honestly, because it's like I'm just I reached the point of being open enough in my spiritual growth and personal growth that I can go into those conversations as a vessel and allow what needs to come through to come through. So that's how I will go into every single episode I will before recording. That's what I say to my guests and how I will, sort of like, set up the stage. And set the table is this has nothing to do with me and I'm here to open up a room and a space and let you fill that with whatever you seem like you know you need to fill it with, and that's my very personal avenue that I found, with a highly analytical mind and somebody who's very sometimes blocked by that, I found a way of, every time I sit down in front of the microphone, for every in intro as well that I record, to do it in one take as well.

So there will be no editing. I don't do any editing unless there is a bio break of five minutes in between or some major interrupt. Basically, I will leave it as it is. I'll leave it untouched and also with those things that I say to the camera no filter, that's just so. It's literally as close to what is going on inside. It's coming on the tape and that is how I was able to come up with that and where I feel highly comfortable and apparently where it is now. People are resonating with it and that's awesome, but yeah, I didn't see that whole thing playing out that way when I started so talk.

I'm interested for you as a podcast host.

You need to talk about how you set this environment with your guests and obviously, as a podcast host, you know people always ask how long should a podcast episode be, and you know you've got the Joe Rogan one-end three hours and then you've got people that do five-minute podcasts.

But I heard someone say something that was really insightful. They said that every minute of your podcast should be adding value to the listener, and I was like whoa, that's a interesting way to put pressure on yourself, but also to make sure, because I'm always thinking about the third person in the room, which is our listener. I always say there's three people in a podcast conversation the host, the guest and the listener and so, conscious of the fact that we have a listener engaging with us and joining us on this conversation, and we always want them to feel included. How do you, as a podcast host, think about that in the process of your interviews? If you do open up the space and you say it's not about me, there's also a responsibility as a host to ensure that you're creating engaging content for your audience as well.

So oh man, yeah, so my professional background is in marketing.

I have a marketing agency which pays my bills and what I'm gonna, what I'm about to say, is very anti marketing and sort of. Probably you know it's not how I approach or how I guess I don't know marketing books would approach things like that. I see that very differently. I approach it very differently. I say it. Yeah, I'll say how it is.

I don't think about the listener at all. I don't think about anyone else other than the person who is sitting across from me. In fact, I don't even think. I try, I don't even think about them. I don't try to think at all when doing this and being as present as I can, looking at the digital screen, which is not my favorite way of podcasting, but sometimes that's what we need to do and it allows for great connections over big distances. So I enjoy live podcasting even more. But I am convinced that and when I'm hearing something like that, you know every minute and value and I'm like and it also is basically displayed in the editing of how you edit podcast there will be very tightly edited podcast. I actually, just before coming on this show, I was listening to one where that was the case, where it was so chopped up like every single sort of break in between speech and that's an extreme, because you take out the breaths and you take out the natural pauses.

You lose the energy and the emotion. I definitely agree with you there. There's a way that there's too much, and I mean I was guilty of in the beginning. I would just like you'd even cut out the breaths and if you listen to, it sounds like it's a robot. It doesn't sound like a human being. It's just like like people normally human beings like they need to pause, they need to catch their breath, they need to think, you know. This is why I started with video from the beginning, because I love to see. Sometimes you ask a tough question and people are just sitting there. You know they got their hand on their chin and they're like thinking. Their eyes are up and they're like what answer should I give? Maxi, you know, like you know.

So those are unique experiences and I've learned to be comfortable with silence as well one of the biggest learnings, yeah, man, and you turned me on to that as well again in the last conversation that we had. You know, yeah, man, yes, yes, very much. So sitting with the silence, you know, and letting the silence through the talking huge power with that, so much power in that. And there's a huge development also that I see in myself as a host, where I just feel like less of like and and it also varies from episode to episode I'm talking to a different human, there will be a different energy present, so I'm not able to do it the same to the same degree, but I notice as sort of like development when it comes to the need of straight coming up with the next answer and having everything ready and set and whatever I don't, and there will be a lot of letting things land in my podcast, a lot like I will take 30 seconds at least sometimes, or even longer, to take in what was actually just being said you know like there's a deep questions and then straight going into

the next one is just sometimes doesn't feel good or organic. So I'm just like and that's also not how I operate and work as a human in general. So why should my heart like project that's coming so close from my heart? Why should I display somebody that I clearly am not, you know, and so that's how I navigate that and I, yeah, literally think the greatest. I don't know. It's just also that whole mindset behind it. It's just really not how I approach anything in life about like optimizing and being productive.

I think there's so much value and I see it honestly. I see it in the analytics that's always come in when people ask me then, especially people who are very like numbers focused, I'm like I show you the fucking numbers. Look at my retention rates, because my episode sometimes they'll go for three hours, like the episodes I did with uncle, they'll sometimes go two and a half three hours. The retention rate is up 90% and upwards. So the people are actually interested in those long format conversations and like short attention span and all that. To me it's like one part of the truth and I see myself in it, like I'll be sometimes on my phone and I'll have a short span of attention, but I'll also really engage with in-depth conversations where I'm fine with people taking their time collecting their thoughts. So, yeah, I'm getting quite passionate about it, but that's just how I see no, that's perfect, because I think, as a host, it's your show.

I always say you're the director, you're the host, you're the manager, you're the producer. You wear all the hats and you make all the decisions at the end of the day, not only in terms of the content and who you invite on the show, but the experience you want to have, because if you're not enjoying yourself, that's gonna come through as your host and that energy is gonna be felt as people listen to it. So, when you think about the progression from when you started the show to where you are present day, how have you grown as a host? What's changed for you throughout this process?

yeah, that basically what just happened just being fine with who, I am not having to prove anything, gaining confidence, gaining security within myself. And again, that's where sometimes outside approval comes in. You know, obviously it does help having people reach out and say that they're resonating. Obviously that helps and it helps me very much to and then also readjust sometimes my inner compass of like, because it is so incredibly introspect and it's so like I'm in my little cocoon sometimes when do when doing those, I had moments of just like being basically like a little soap bubble that's being like poked and it's just exploding and I was just like, oh, wow, yeah, I literally have not thought about it that way, I looked at it that way. So thank you for for letting me know.

And then still being a sovereign being and tuning into okay, like, is this still like the way that I want to like go? Is this my truth? But it definitely helps to be in somewhat of a exchange and that's also what I'm missing very much in podcasting and what like is the two way street? It's not a one-way street, it's not like me just constantly sending one way, but it's like. So, okay, like, can we talk? Can you tell?

me what you think I'm feeding off from that big time. You know, and quite frankly you know, my podcast just slowly reaching a point where I'm frequently getting feedback through various channels and it's not like a massive amount, but I can say that the people who come through it is meaningful and it is deep and sincere, it's soul bearing it's, and that's where, when you ask me about my growth and evolution, man there is responsibility coming into the play, into the picture here, because we are talking about deep stuff.

We're talking a lot about trauma, we're talking about different healing modalities, and so when I will speak to experts on these topics, it starts with whom I getting on whom, whom I providing a space for, who am I setting the table for? That's my responsibility. And now that I sense that like I'm being heard and people really pay attention to what I'm saying and they will get back to me on it, like they will ask questions and they will point out things that they notice that I've said in previous episodes or something, and then they'll pick up on it and they will hold me sort of like accountable to what I shared, and so I feel like that is definitely increasing. So I'm growing as somebody who is like okay, this is not just me and my microphone anymore. So actually it's funny. I'm actually completely saying the opposite of what I initially. So I do think about the audience.

I do think about the audience and yeah, man, I do think about the audience in the terms of like, did I recognize that there is a responsibility that I carry? And with that, yeah, but a responsibility that I carry, but then again, only to then return to full presence to not think about what anyone might anticipate or whatever, yeah, so yeah, that's the growth. Let's see it.

It's good to see, and it's something that you don't realize until you look back and you understand how you've grown as a host. I mean, I'm a better conversationalist, I'm much more curious, even in real life. You probably noticed during the event that I was asking questions a lot and it's just that podcast host kicks in even if you're in real life and you're talking to someone, you meet someone, go like how'd you do that? Why'd you do that? And you're like, and then it just comes naturally. So I'm grateful for what it's afforded me at 400 plus episodes across both shows. And so I just I continue to work that muscle. So I appreciate you sharing that because I think it's a journey.

We all go through it at a different pace and we all get out of it.

So yeah, and I can feel that with you, like you are doing a lot, you are very much out there and, yeah, man, I just wanted to also, while just being literally talking to you on a call and seeing you in real time, I would just also just wanted to say that, like I feel the weight that comes with as well, and that you are carrying as well, from upholding, juggling so many balls and just being a man 2023, man and being fucking self-employed and all that I feel it and in the way that you're approaching things and also the podcast and what you shared with me, the resources and stuff.

From that I can just also tell how thoughtful and intentional you are about what you're doing and I wanted to point that out and praise that as well and applaud you for that man, it's inspirational as well and it's something that, yeah, you can also be like aware of and proud of and sit with, take it in and receive, because you just go on, you know you go on and you do all these fucking five different podcasts and whatever. But I'm just like here to also like mirror back to you Like you're doing a lot and you're doing a great job in what you're doing, and just like me receiving this and being on this call with you and the questions you ask, very good, very good. So yeah, man.

I love you. You too, brother. Thank you for that. I mean you're saying what I'm feeling and I do feel like there's a lot going on and I think I'm learned to be more through the work we're doing at Tick or Turns, to be okay with being seen and recognize that I'm being seen and take in that I'm being seen and honor that someone is seeing it and not feeling like bad about it, that I'm like, oh, I'm exposing myself from being too vulnerable, and so all these things are like a mix of emotions that sometimes don't have words, but I'm, I really honor the fact that you recognize and that you brought that up here. So I appreciate that, appreciate you man.

Thank you so much. Yeah, Just a couple of questions as we wrap up.

What is something you've changed your mind about recently?

Oh wow. We can take it in numerous ways, man. There's a couple of things Monogamy.

How interesting.

How I want to show up. I mean men's work you know, work with sacred sons change everything. I was shouting from the rooftops two years ago, one year ago, that Paul LeAmory is the way and open relationships are the way, and all that open free stuff. There's so many young folks are enthusiastic about yeah, not really.

I really changed my mind about that Big time. I discovered all I really, really underneath, at the source, core level, craving deep intimacy with one person, going deep, feeling safe, feeling seen, and I won't be. That's my understanding, my learning, what I innately feel. I won't be able to cultivate that with numerous people and spread my seed, but also energy and you know, across different realms, and so that's something I majorly shifted focus on what is the most misunderstood thing about you.

The damn an extrovert I think. So I guess I'm an introverted extrovert. You know, I don't have a problem speaking on here. I don't have an issue going on a stage, but it will be delivered in an introverted way, introspective person, and so I guess when people see and hear things about me they would straightaway jump to the conclusion I'm highly extrovert and stuff, and I am with people, places and circumstances that are aligned with my frequency and with the spirit, and so yeah, that Well, my brother, I know that we could have a day long conversation, and probably on so many different topics, and there's so many different aspects.

Can I ask you one question?

Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Yeah, all right. So I would ask you one of my questions that I asked towards the end of the podcast episodes Always also similar ones I'm tuning into which one I want to ask you yeah, what do we need more of in this world?

Genuine human connection. We need the ability to slow down and see each other as humans, and I've been experiencing that more and more and the more I see that and thankful for again. I keep talking about the sacred sons community, but that's been something that's really come up and you just demonstrated that earlier, that the fact that you saw me and I think we all go through life, just getting through what we need to, and we don't stop, we don't. You know one of the first exercises we do, right as we look each other in the eye at these events, and that's a very strange and uncomfortable thing for humans and I've even tried it with my partner and those first few moments are uncomfortable and we just don't take the time to look at each other in the eye and see the souls and see.

It doesn't take long, it's 30 seconds a minute and then you start looking and you start. You can see a lot. You can see pain, you can see trauma, you can see suffering, you can see joy, you can see happiness, and I think we need to do that more because we'll start to understand each other and see that we're really all going through the same experience and we're having a lot of the same challenges and we all need to let those out in a safe space so that we can all understand like we, at the end of the day, we're all looking for the same thing. Yeah, thanks for asking that. Thanks, brother beautiful.

So if a listener wants to learn more about you and your journey, where's the best place for them to connect with you?

Just my name, maxi Maximilian Bartel. Type that into Google, you'll find all that you need to find. Or going out, looking in. Given the fact that I'm I don't know working within marketing, I try my best to be sort of like visible. So, on your favorite internet browser, type in, going out, looking in. Or Maxi Bartel, and you'll find all you need. And the door is always open to connect with me on a personal level. Like, I will see you, I will acknowledge you, I will get back to you. That's partially what feeds the creative doesn't it.

It's the exchange with the audience, so I just would encourage anyone also on your show to do the same with you. That's what we, as podcasts feed off of is what people think and what it did for them.

So Thanks for that.

Thank you, and for those that need some additional guidance, we'll provide some of those links, because I need to provide some of those when you connect, when you signed up, and so we'll make sure those are in the show notes as well.

Yeah, thank you, brother, I received that and same for you. You were the first one I connected with on Sacred Sons, really with the conversation, and like I say I mean that like I see what you're doing, I see what you're carrying. You're doing a lot and you're doing a great job in doing so. You're a warrior, but there is a very soft gentle, loving, like core, and that's beautiful man and I wish for you to water it to the same degree that you water all of these beautiful business masculine initiating sort of like traits that you nourish the subtler ones as well, man.

Beautiful way to wrap this up.

Thank you so much, I appreciate you.

Thank you.