This week we are joined by friend of the show, Seizethemeansshirts to discuss Steven Soderbergh's "Ocean's Eleven." With an ensemble cast of George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Bernie Mac, Matt Damon, Don Cheadle, Casey Affleck, Scott Caan, Elliot Gould, Carl Reiner, Andy Garcia and Julia Roberts (among others), this remake of the Rat Pack's own Ocean's Eleven from 1960 went on to spawn two trilogies and a spin off led by Sandra Bullock.

We discuss the creation of wealth, the unity of the proletariat vs the schisms of the capitalists and their fundamental atomization, our guest points out more inconsistencies in the heist than one of us is comfortable with and we still come out unable to decide whether this is the greatest remake of all time or just one of the greatest remakes of all time.

Guest Links

Seize the Means Shirts on Etsy

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Seize the Means Shirts on Youtube

Left of the Projector Links

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Host Links

Evan's Letterboxd

Bill's Instagram

Bill's Letterboxd

Ward's Instagram

Ward's Letterboxd

Bill: Hello, and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Bill,

Bill: back again with another film discussion from the left.

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Bill: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday. Now, on to the show.

Bill: This week on the show, we're going to be discussing one of the greatest remakes

Bill: ever made, Ocean's Eleven.

Bill: This film was directed by Steven

Bill: Soderbergh and has a cast of at least 11 people. There's a lot of people.

Bill: Some of them include George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Matt Damon, Bernie Mac,

Bill: Don Cheadle, Julia Roberts, and you're going to see it. The list can go on and on.

Bill: With us this week to discuss this epic heist film and really a favorite of all

Bill: of us, I think, all-time favorite of all of us, we have a returning friend of

Bill: the show, Hugo, whereas he's known online, sees the means shirts.

Bill: Hugo, thank you for joining us tonight. And of course, as always, Evan.

Bill: Ward is still exploring the world, searching for the elusive Gareth Edwards.

Bill: As soon as he finds him or abandons his quest, he will be returning to us.

Bill: But never fear. Ward will return with Gareth Edwards to answer for his crimes.

Bill: Or, you know, just some questions about movies. You know, if we can get them.

Bill: So, gentlemen.

Bill: Ocean's Eleven, what do we think?

Hugo: What do you think, Evan?

Evan: This, for me, I can't even tell you how many times I've seen this movie.

Evan: I saw someone post, maybe it's like one of those things where you post about

Evan: a movie, then it just starts hitting your algorithm.

Bill: Oh, yeah.

Evan: Someone's like, this is the ultimate movie to watch on a plane,

Evan: or you're in a hotel traveling, and you turn on the TV, and Ocean's Eleven is just on.

Bill: Or you're awake.

Evan: Yeah, or just any other reason. But it's like a comfort film.

Evan: I've seen it countless times. it's so good yeah that's all i mean what else is it gonna say you go.

Hugo: I have seen this movie a bunch of times too probably only

Hugo: like four but i've seen it i remember it had

Hugo: such a big impact on me when i was because it came out in 2001 so i think yeah

Hugo: i was remember like watching a film when you're a kid and then being like i'm

Hugo: gonna be like that you know like i'm like morphing myself into that personality

Hugo: because that's so cool so i had

Hugo: like the thing with like Like Brad Pitt always eating was like a thing.

Hugo: Like I thought that was really cool to always be munching on something.

Bill: Me too. That's why I'm fat.

Hugo: I have said, Oh, I used to say, Oh, leave it out forever.

Hugo: I've been doing it since I was 17 in Don Keel's terrible British accent.

Hugo: Oh, leave it out.

Bill: Is it really terrible? This is a genuine question. I don't know if accents are bad.

Bill: I can't. I can very rarely. Listen, Jason Statham's Los Angeles accent, that's bad.

Bill: But other than that, like, I can't really tell what's a bad accent.

Evan: I feel like it's commonly joked, like, that's the only bad thing about the movie.

Evan: Like, I feel like that's like a meme or something.

Evan: Like, it's kind of bad. But you know what? It fits because he's a con man.

Evan: And he could also, maybe he's not even fucking British.

Bill: I'd like to mention he's not actually British. I think he just made that up.

Hugo: Maybe he thought he was going to be on a Guy Ritchie film, and he just got confused.

Bill: The movie does feel like a Guy Ritchie film at times.

Bill: It definitely does. It has strong Guy Ritchie vibes at times.

Bill: Good Guy Ritchie vibes, not bad Guy Ritchie vibes.

Hugo: He could also be hiding his identity not to

Hugo: get too deep into this into the don teal character but also

Hugo: because i will also say this i always i just to

Hugo: be like because there were there aren't there isn't a lot of like black representation

Hugo: in these films so ever since i'm like i was a kid when i see the black guy i'm

Hugo: like that guy i want to be like him how did he get in this movie i want to be

Hugo: funny like that you know i want to be needed so i i'm automatically got attracted

Hugo: to john chee to Don Cheadle.

Hugo: But my thing about the lore, maybe he's hiding to them. They don't even know

Hugo: his real identity. And that's why he's pretending.

Bill: I love that.

Hugo: Right?

Bill: I love that.

Evan: That makes sense in the canon of Ocean's world.

Bill: This is my head canon now. It's made up. Now, the bad accent isn't,

Bill: it's not detracted from the movie.

Bill: Now, even if I knew, even if I could tell it was a bad accent,

Bill: which I can't as an ugly American,

Bill: i have no idea for all i know all british people sound like that this is one

Bill: of my all-time favorite movies uh,

Bill: Speaking of, you know, you see a movie and you're like, oh, that,

Bill: that's, yeah, I love con men.

Bill: As I said to these two earlier today, if in other life, I would have been a

Bill: con man, 100%, like 100% or a gentleman thief.

Bill: i have george clooney's character in this is

Bill: one of my all-time favorite characters

Bill: in movies period uh i think

Bill: he like i want to be danny ocean i'm i think that's really that simple i want

Bill: to be danny ocean a hundred percent the man is as smooth as the days long and

Bill: a good person asks about Bruiser he asks about his wife you know pregnant again.

Evan: I'll also add to like purely just based on so

Evan: I think you mentioned this is a Steven Soderbergh film listen to

Evan: this run I mean he has had so many great films but this is his run of films

Evan: in like the 90s to 2000s he had Aaron Brockovich Traffic Ocean's Eleven Full

Evan: Frontal the remake of Solaris I guess he likes remakes the sequel to this Bubble

Evan: which I've actually seen as kind of a lesser known film.

Evan: The Good German and then Ocean's 13 and then the Che part one and part two.

Evan: Like, that's just an epic run. And when I look at his entire catalog,

Evan: I feel like this is my favorite of his films. And he has a lot of good heist movies.

Evan: Like, Logan Lucky is also a really good one. Like, not as good as this.

Evan: you know, good.

Bill: I have actually never seen Logan Lucky.

Evan: Ooh, that's a good one to watch.

Bill: Yeah, this is a pretty solid run. This is pretty solid.

Hugo: I was going to say this is weird. I was looking up the cast list and I was trying

Hugo: to see what Don Cheadle's name is.

Hugo: And if you look on Letterboxd, Don Cheadle isn't in the cast list till like

Hugo: way at the bottom and it says uncredited Basher Tar. Isn't that weird?

Evan: That's so weird. That's because in the Wikipedia version, he is in like the

Evan: main grouping as Bash or Tar.

Hugo: But if you go to Letterboxd, I mean, maybe it's not, maybe it's just mine, check.

Hugo: And Letterboxd, he's, I was like, am I going crazy? You know when you're looking

Hugo: for something at the grocery store and it's like right in front of you? But it wasn't.

Hugo: It's like all the way at the bottom. Almost all the way.

Bill: I'm actually, I'm looking at IMDb. I want to see what it says on IMDb.

Evan: That is weird though, that like each of them has this like, we're all going

Evan: to just like list it differently.

Hugo: And the people that are, the other, only other people that are uncredited are

Hugo: the actors playing themselves. Topher Grace, Joshua Jackson,

Hugo: Shane West, Barry Weston, Halle Mary Payne.

Evan: Can I say, it had been a little while since I'd seen it.

Evan: The Topher Grace and Joshua Jackson poker scene at the beginning is so funny.

Evan: And this time, watching it from a leftist lens, I'm like, this is sort of like

Evan: Brad Pitt practicing and showing you how he can steal from rich people.

Evan: But by befriending them and the true confidence man.

Evan: So I think it's just like a perfect metaphor, like somehow for the later,

Evan: you know, the heist, the big heist.

Hugo: I will also say he's a bad teacher. Like he's getting annoyed at them. It's like you didn't,

Hugo: How did you not notice that he dealt the wrong cards to someone?

Hugo: You know what I mean? He's like, this is a five-card game. You can't have seven cards.

Hugo: How didn't you notice that? You're the teacher, bro. Like, it doesn't make sense. Also.

Evan: Yeah, he's a bad teacher.

Hugo: I think it's really hilarious.

Bill: Because he doesn't have to.

Hugo: Right, yeah.

Bill: Because he doesn't have to.

Hugo: That when they walk out of the club, Topher Grace is the one that gets,

Hugo: like, mogged by, like, I don't know if that's the word, mogged.

Hugo: I just, that's the word that everyone's been using when people are looking better

Hugo: than someone else. I feel like I'm falling behind on the times.

Hugo: But mobbed, that's the word I'm looking for.

Hugo: Topher Grace is mobbed by all the paparazzi, but no one looks at Brad Pitt and George Clooney.

Hugo: It's just so surreal that they're the nobodies.

Hugo: But Topher Grace. Like, what about Topher? Topher!

Bill: Topher Grace.

Evan: That actually is a really good... I feel like it's a perfect gag.

Evan: There are lots of really good gags. and like it also we don't need to talk about

Evan: the sequel where like julia roberts plays is an actor in the movie that like

Evan: has a role in it i want to you haven't seen the sequel.

Bill: That's so good it's so weird i don't like that but.

Evan: Like everyone so we mentioned the other like great characters that i feel like

Evan: kind of get lost and i actually was watching some behind the like behind the

Evan: scenes stuff the um the other two guys oh of scott khan and uh casey aflac like

Evan: you know they're like relations with each other.

Evan: Apparently they had a bunch of more jokes and backstories they wanted to put

Evan: in the movie, but they like had to either take it out or they weren't allowed to put it in.

Evan: I like love their banter. And I love Casey Affleck.

Bill: They are incredible. Their entire thing is absolutely just fucking solid comedy from start to finish.

Bill: Um, I can't get enough of them. Uh, it's the introduction of everyone. all right,

Bill: Let's actually set some precedent here, okay? For those that have not seen this movie, shame on you.

Bill: Shame, shame, shame. Game of Thrones style, going to ring the bell, the whole thing, shame.

Bill: Ocean's Eleven is one of the classic heist films, as we already said,

Bill: stars George Clooney, Brad Pitt, all those other people.

Bill: They are assembling a group of people to rob the Bellagio Hotel,

Bill: but specifically all three hotels, casino hotels, owned by Andy Garcia's character.

Bill: That's the premise. We're assembling a team.

Bill: George Clooney and Brad Pitt are assembling a team to rob these people.

Bill: And as Evan pointed out, part of the things that we talk, the kind of scene

Bill: is that they have specifically, time and time again, the main characters,

Bill: especially Brad Pitt and George Clooney, they rob people that just seem to deserve it.

Bill: they are specifically robbing high-end people.

Bill: Not that they are morally, they're not Robin Hood characters, but they clearly prey on,

Bill: people who might seem we would say deserve it that they are they are hoarding

Bill: wealth and they're not great people and you go see his character is a bad person

Bill: right like let's let's get that out of the way but.

Hugo: I feel like we don't know that he's a bad person except for the fact that they

Hugo: keep mentioning like if you steal from him he like ruins not just your life

Hugo: but like everyone else in the family's life.

Bill: But he also bought the hotel out from uh the you know ruben and then bombed

Bill: it, blew it up to replace it with a gaudy monstrosity instead of respecting

Bill: the heritage and history of Las Vegas.

Hugo: Alright, that sounds like some boomer.

Bill: Which I have zero respect for. I personally you couldn't pay me to go to Las Vegas.

Bill: As far as I'm concerned, it should be turned back into the desert.

Hugo: But I mean, I feel like that's like an old guy's complaint about a young guy

Hugo: moving in which is like a normal capitalist story, right?

Hugo: Like I'm going to buy your place, I'm going to improve on it.

Hugo: So I feel like the, the demon, like how the way they're like demonizing Danny,

Hugo: um, Andy Garcia's character.

Hugo: Um, oh my God, I'm spacing on his name. The way they're demonizing Terry Benedict

Hugo: feels like a little like over the top because we don't have a lot of history

Hugo: besides the fact that, Hey, don't steal from him or else he's going to,

Hugo: he's going to come for you.

Hugo: So like, I didn't get the sense that they were like good guys from the beginning.

Hugo: I was just, you know, you're just in it for the fun.

Hugo: It's like, they're all in the game. You know what I mean? So it doesn't matter if you run.

Bill: Absolutely you know absolutely but you know you i feel like you you are,

Bill: You're prone to sympathize with them or empathize with them.

Bill: You don't villainize them.

Hugo: Right. No, no, no. You're right. I don't see them as villains.

Hugo: But I don't see them as Robin Hood characters. And you also see- No.

Bill: They're certainly not Robin Hood characters. They're not giving to the poor.

Hugo: But you also see Danny Ocean has been the parole board in the beginning,

Hugo: that first scene, the way it opens with him getting interviewed.

Hugo: He's telling them- First of all, he's kind of rude to the parole board. They were just like- I.

Bill: Love that scene.

Hugo: Right? Isn't that a weird scene? how.

Evan: Does he get paroled is what i like to know like he was a.

Hugo: Dick yeah and then like she was you do it again he's like well she can't leave

Hugo: me again like all right bro you're gonna be sarcastic with me you're in here

Hugo: for another five years also uh oh the voice is viola date uh viola davis i just

Hugo: saw it all the way at the bottom viola roll board interrogator i.

Bill: Love that scene because especially because first of all that would be me i would get five more years.

Hugo: A hundred percent.

Bill: They'd be like go back in um especially when they were like well you've been

Bill: implicated it's like and i'd be like good for you that's not relevant i wasn't charged.

Hugo: I

Bill: Wasn't charged like you you know you can't hold that against me fuck you he

Bill: was he had every right to make that point.

Hugo: Uh the other thing that bothers me about the whole parole thing he makes one

Hugo: phone call and then never again is mentioned that he's on parole,

Hugo: You notice that he makes that one phone call. He's like, Hey,

Hugo: just checking in Danny ocean, blah, blah, blah.

Hugo: And then he never calls the parole board again for the rest of the film.

Hugo: I'm like, Hey, what happened?

Bill: Well, but that's why he goes back to prison, violating his parole.

Hugo: Well, it's like, but only because Terry called the parole board.

Bill: Yes.

Hugo: Things that he's supposed to be checking in every, every few hours.

Bill: Whereas like, we have to, we can assume that he is checking it.

Hugo: Okay. Yeah, that's true. That's true.

Bill: Lying and lying, which is why he goes to prison in the end when it is proven that he's been lying.

Evan: Do we, do we know what state he's arrested? He's like in prison in California?

Bill: Oh, New Jersey, New Jersey.

Hugo: I did not notice that.

Bill: Listen, 100. So, all right, he, I don't know which penitentiary he leaves exactly,

Bill: but he, it's a North Jersey penitentiary.

Bill: and then he goes to ac and he is specifically you

Bill: know all right here's a little okay atlantic city

Bill: is where the pros go i forgot yes vegas

Bill: is where tourists go atlantic city is

Bill: where the pros go you're right and that's where

Bill: shit goes down and that's where you have to assume that now he committed the

Bill: crime i believe or he committed part of the crime i believe in new york state

Bill: and then got renditioned to New Jersey where he was tried.

Bill: But yes, my home state.

Hugo: Okay, got it. Because I forgot he went to Atlantic City right after to gamble,

Hugo: and that's where he bumps into – Bernie Mac. Frank, who's Bernie – Ramone.

Hugo: Huh?

Bill: It's Ramon.

Hugo: Ramon.

Bill: Ramon.

Hugo: Isn't it weird that Ramon walks up and he's like, oh, blah, blah,

Hugo: blah. And he's like, hey, Frank.

Hugo: And that's when he recognizes Danny Ocean? Like he didn't recognize it?

Bill: No, no, no. He did not not recognize him. He didn't.

Bill: He was playing his role and then he was irritated that Danny called him out.

Bill: And he didn't want his cover blown.

Hugo: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's Ramon.

Bill: Yeah, it's Ramon.

Evan: I mean, I feel like it's safe to assume that all of the names that we hear that

Evan: them use in the movie, Basher and Burge, like those are all not their actual names.

Hugo: Yeah.

Evan: Like, you know, like that, I mean, I mean, they all have, you know, their.

Bill: Except for Ruben.

Evan: Aliases and all that.

Bill: Ruben, that's his name.

Hugo: Yes.

Evan: Yeah. Well, he's like a legitimate businessman. Mostly.

Bill: Yeah. A legitimate businessman. Who's funding a heist.

Hugo: They keep reminding us how famous he is. He's always standing in front of Time

Hugo: Magazine posters of him.

Hugo: There's that one shot of Terry, and he's right behind him at some – At the boxing

Hugo: match. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bill: Oh, yeah, yeah. In the beginning, and then at the boxing match,

Bill: too. He's right behind him.

Hugo: The real wrestling match.

Bill: He's always there.

Hugo: He's always there.

Evan: Yeah, and part of the reason that they're able to get –,

Evan: him to uh play or play by

Evan: elliot cool of course like get him to back

Evan: their heist is that he is mad at terry benedict for like screwing over his own

Evan: his like his casino like he made millions of dollars being a casino owner then

Evan: got muscled out and now he's like well i'm gonna take my revenge against him

Evan: and just rob terry benedict which like cool dude yeah.

Bill: It's all it's purely ego.

Hugo: Rich people sound petty he sounds petty enough to do that you know what i mean

Hugo: a hundred percent and he's only.

Evan: That man.

Hugo: He's only fronting the money he's not really losing anything right he's fronting

Hugo: the money yeah he'll probably get it back so it's a good investment.

Evan: Yeah presumably that gets like removed from everyone's cut or who knows you

Evan: know something i just like i know we're talking oh go ahead bill.

Bill: Hugo from wikipedia cheetle was uncredited for his role In an interview, Cheadle said,

Bill: there was some stuff that happened behind the scenes that I didn't like how

Bill: it went down, so I said, take my name off it.

Hugo: Really?

Evan: Wow.

Hugo: Wow.

Bill: I want to know more so badly.

Evan: But he came back for two sequels.

Bill: Yeah, but it came back for two sequels.

Hugo: Oh, really?

Bill: Yes.

Evan: Yeah, he's in both sequels.

Hugo: But Steven Soderbergh doesn't direct the other ones. It might not be the same.

Bill: He directs 13.

Hugo: Oh, really? Okay. Well, I don't know.

Evan: No, he directed all of them.

Hugo: Really?

Bill: He did direct 12?

Hugo: Yeah pretty.

Evan: Sure right yeah.

Bill: No yeah yeah he did.

Evan: Yeah i thought so yeah he didn't write any of them but yeah.

Hugo: I wonder if it was just contract stuff i also i

Hugo: really one of the other things that bothers me about it

Hugo: um now looking back right because i again i

Hugo: focus on don cheetle he's robbing the bank he gets caught

Hugo: um one of my favorite lines is when the guy comes up

Hugo: he's like do me a favor get smith and tell him that so we're looking

Hugo: for him he's like who's smith just get him all right and

Hugo: like just like brad pitt is

Hugo: like kills it this whole film but then the

Hugo: fact that he just robbed a bank got

Hugo: caught blew up a car who knows how many people got hurt you know i know he did

Hugo: like a little warning like oh here we go watch out watch out but like who knows

Hugo: if people got hurt from the explosion and then he's just walking around vegas

Hugo: willy-nilly no mask like no one's looking for you, dude. They're coming to get you, man.

Bill: Number one, that was a cop car. Number two, everyone around it were cops. So they're not people.

Hugo: But that's even, but that, I mean, back to, right, right. I'm not saying that they're not gonna.

Bill: And yes, they would have been looking for him.

Hugo: Would have been looking for him. That's what I'm saying. Like, yes, hiding out.

Hugo: And then it really bothers me when he goes with the cones to go into the into the sewer drain.

Hugo: But he's wearing like a fur vest and like crazy.

Bill: Yes.

Hugo: You don't look like you work for Con Ed, bro. No one thinks you're a PC.

Bill: Put a vest on.

Bill: Every time I was like, just put a vest on, man. Just put a high vis vest on.

Bill: Just put a high vis. Just get a clipboard and put a high vis on.

Hugo: You don't even know. You can get into any place if you have a high-vis vest.

Bill: Yeah, a high-vis and a clipboard.

Hugo: And a hard hat. All things you can buy for really cheap and just have in your apartment.

Bill: Yep. But I also at the same time really love, it's going to be great to be working

Bill: with proper villains again.

Hugo: That's really good. I love his accent. And that's the other thing.

Hugo: We can make fun of his accent, but I would not be able to hold a British accent

Hugo: for that long. Like all those words, that's...

Bill: Hell no.

Hugo: Like all the people criticizing his accent. Can you do a better accent? Because I can't.

Evan: When i like jokingly like i'm critical like that's what people do

Evan: i think it's more of like a joke than anything i mean he's definitely

Evan: one he doesn't have many lines but they're always like really good

Evan: i think that what makes like these kind of films where this like the top of

Evan: your cast is george clooney matt damon brad pitt and whatnot and then you just

Evan: have like a bunch of other really good characters that just fill out the entire

Evan: thing that all just have little i don't want to call them like throwaway lines

Evan: but they're just like constantly funny throughout yeah the.

Bill: Which, and I was saying this before you, before you came on to Evan,

Bill: you know, I was talking, you know, when we were, we were watching it,

Bill: my wife and I were watching it again.

Bill: Um, and like what I say is like Matt Damon's character is the least standout and he carries.

Bill: And as, as a role and as an actor in the film, he sets the bar for everybody

Bill: else, which is a testament to how high everybody is doing.

Bill: because i find his character and his role in

Bill: the film the least engaging and the

Bill: least like interesting but he's still so

Bill: good and that everybody else still tops

Bill: that everybody tops it like every

Bill: time they are on screen you are engaged

Bill: and you're like hells yeah though my other

Bill: big thing with him is that i don't think any person his

Bill: age would be that impressed by julia roberts

Bill: i'm sorry julia roberts i don't think i i find

Bill: the way they talk about julia roberts's character that is the big that is honestly

Bill: my biggest issue is the way everybody else talks about julia roberts's character

Bill: as if she is the most beautiful person to ever walk the planet and i just don't see it i'm sorry i don't.

Bill: I, I'm not saying she's not a beautiful woman. I'm not saying she's not pretty.

Bill: And I think Danny ocean as the man who loves her would see her that way.

Bill: I don't think a random person like Matt Damon's character, like this is the

Bill: best part of my day seeing that woman in a pantsuit come down the stairs.

Hugo: I think, no, I disagree. I think you could, I think it has a lot to do with

Hugo: just her vibe. Like the fact that she's, you know, uh, Terry's girl,

Hugo: right? She's coming down. She's very classy.

Hugo: she's the art curator for the museum um you

Hugo: know she just the way she carries herself like

Hugo: and again like they're probably uh they're very

Hugo: i will say i don't you know i know i feel like they're very materialistic like

Hugo: they want to be rich really bad and this is like a

Hugo: rich man's wife right this is what a rich man

Hugo: like aspires to have a very classy girl and uh i love julia roberts just because

Hugo: you know i've known you know we've known her since we were kids so like pretty

Hugo: woman and like she's just she's just she's a great actor i also heard she i

Hugo: don't i feel bad saying this on podcasts without confirming but i feel like

Hugo: i've heard that she's like really horrible to work with but really i've never.

Bill: Heard that but i don't.

Hugo: My wife loves like she all the podcasts she listens to are just people from

Hugo: the industry like talking about who's fun to work with or not,

Hugo: But I'm pretty sure she told me Julia Roberts is like a monster.

Hugo: But if we can't complain that, please.

Bill: Really? I thought she was really nice. I'm Googling it now. I'm looking it up. I'm doing research.

Evan: One of the things that I did see, so I was watching a few like the cast interviews

Evan: and Julia Roberts was saying that it was actually really hard to work with George Clooney.

Evan: Not because like he's a bad guy or like the acting, but simply because like

Evan: they're really goofy as like offset.

Evan: and so when they had to be really serious in the movie it

Evan: was actually they'd have to do lots of takes because they would like to start

Evan: laughing and break you know constantly so i know you could still be correct

Evan: about julia roberts being like hard to work with but i don't know okay so she's

Evan: in a like five soderbergh movie so clearly like maybe he works with her like

Evan: well you know apparently.

Bill: She does have quite a reputation for being difficult to work with um she this

Bill: is a while ago she was interviewed and she addressed like some of that um so much.

Hugo: You know what i'll say okay i don't know reading some of the accusations it

Hugo: could be that if it was a man being demanding and stuff they would be like oh

Hugo: you know he stands his ground but because it's a woman they're like oh look

Hugo: like they call yeah they used to call her tinker hell on the set of hook,

Hugo: because she disagreed with Steven Spielberg.

Hugo: But what's the disagreement? Is the disagreement like, oh, I don't want somebody

Hugo: to touch me like that? You know what I mean? We don't know. So, yeah.

Bill: 100%.

Evan: Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Are you trying to tell me that there's sexism and,

Evan: weird stuff happening in hollywood no they're they're not what.

Bill: I've heard about it.

Evan: It's just a rumor no but like yeah i could i could totally see that being the

Evan: thing like you know like a what like uh what is his name um christian heigl

Evan: is that her name uh he was in like um that's not her first name i'm blanking on her first fuck it's.

Bill: With a k katherine.

Evan: Katherine heigl katherine heigl like she also had that reputation of like being

Evan: hard to work with and then i feel like i read later on that it was just that

Evan: she actually would advocate for herself on set, and,

Evan: men directors didn't like that. And so she got blacklisted, basically.

Hugo: Yeah, there was another one. I forgot who it was. In the 90s,

Hugo: she had two really good films, and then basically Weinstein tried to make moves on her end.

Bill: Oh, yeah.

Hugo: Is it Ashley Judd? I think it was Ashley Judd.

Evan: Could be. She was out for a while.

Bill: There's a couple other Yeah.

Hugo: You can tell because when you look her up, it just says she's an activist.

Hugo: So it's like she was a great actor. And then like she turned this guy down and

Hugo: now she doesn't get any roles in any films.

Hugo: And so she becomes an activist for like being outspoken about like how women

Hugo: shouldn't get treated like that.

Hugo: So anyway, let Julia Roberts live. She's a nice person.

Bill: Listen, I'm just I'm just saying that I don't think the way she's presented,

Bill: he would react that way. Like she comes down very like business court.

Bill: Like I said, like in a pantsuit, like I don't think that he would respond to

Bill: that as you're like, this is the best part of my day.

Bill: I just, it seems like,

Bill: unrealistic to me.

Evan: Going like going like a separate way i

Evan: think we were i don't remember it was like in our group chat or like we were talking

Evan: about you and i bill is the like the building

Evan: of like all the different people they need for the

Evan: con and like they have 10 people and then you know uh like one thing i love

Evan: about soderberg and he does this in a lot of his films is lots of the the script

Evan: and the way that people react is so much of it is like facial expression like

Evan: brad pitt and George Cleaner talking and he'll be like so you think we need one more?

Evan: Okay, we'll get one more.

Bill: Yeah.

Evan: And like, it's all like this very interesting or like one of them will be saying

Evan: a line and then they'll sort of jump in before they're even finished.

Evan: But like, it feels like authentically the way that people would talk.

Bill: There was a time in which like Joss Whedon dialogue was so popular and it was

Bill: like this like really quippy back and forth and it became such like it is infected

Bill: Hollywood like to the point where like,

Bill: you know, like that's like one of the distinctive things about like Marvel movies.

Bill: that's the way they all talk and like nobody talks like

Bill: that but watching this movie like

Bill: this is the way people talk to

Bill: each other like in like half like

Bill: you drop words you half finish

Bill: a sentence the other person just picks up what you're saying you

Bill: just kind of like respond but also beyond that the

Bill: way the script is written like when they

Bill: talk about what they're going to need to do it and this

Bill: is as a sci-fi fan and a fantasy fan this is

Bill: this is a thing that's so common in science fiction and fantasy the

Bill: bringing you into the universe by expecting you to just buy into things and

Bill: then you'll figure it out like when it says when you're like oh what do you

Bill: what do we need he goes off the top of my head i'd say you're looking at a bosky

Bill: a jim brown a miss daisy two jethro's and a leon spynx not to mention the biggest

Bill: elephant Fitzgerald ever.

Bill: Do any of you know what any of that is a reference to when he says that?

Bill: You figure it out later on, but when he says it, we have no idea what any of that means, right?

Bill: But the fact that they just lay it out there and then let you go,

Bill: and it's so casual and it's so inviting, it just makes you feel part of the

Bill: conversation. You're like, oh, yeah, that's what we're going to need.

Bill: We're going to need a big Ella Fitzgerald. What the fuck is that mean?

Evan: I looked it up. There's an article that goes through what each of those things

Evan: are, and it's actually kind of cool.

Hugo: What are they? What are they?

Bill: Bring it on.

Evan: Should we go through? Okay, ready? Okay, we're going to do all of them. All right. So, a Boeski.

Evan: So this is the character that's played by Saul playing Lyman Zerga.

Evan: So he's like the foreign guy in the book.

Evan: So it says Lyman Zerga is the whale who asked to put his jewels in the Cassano vault.

Evan: So basically the idea is that he's like the con of like a wealthy high roller.

Evan: It's like that's the, that's a Boesky. Jim Brown is a stage fight between two people.

Evan: And so this is the stage fight between Frank, played by Bernie Mac,

Evan: and Linus by Matt Damon, so that he can pickpocket him for the codes.

Evan: And it's named after the football player, Jim Brown, who's required,

Evan: like, you know, one of the greatest football players ever.

Evan: And he would often, you know, have like fights between other players, like confrontation.

Evan: So like, that was the idea. a miss daisy is

Evan: the swat van used as the getaway vehicle and

Evan: it's about like you you you think it's one

Evan: per like like they call the police like when later

Evan: on in the film and you think they're actually doing it you don't realize

Evan: it and they give you that nice little they show like the little uh

Evan: what is it the the pine tree scented thing

Evan: hanging from the thing so you know like that's like the giveaway the

Evan: jethro's are the um malloy brothers

Evan: turk and virgil like the two guys like we talked but earlier like

Evan: uh you know sort of and it's a reference like the beverly

Evan: hillbillies where they like just are kind of like dumb brothers who

Evan: do a bunch of stuff together and they hire or get hired to do

Evan: things leon spinks is the distraction at the boxing match which is in reference

Evan: to a boxing match where leon spinks beat muhammad ali in a total upset so the

Evan: idea is that they create this diversion like through chaos and that and the

Evan: ella fitzgerald is playing a looped tape of a robbery over the casino.

Evan: Cameras so that they can then...

Evan: They think that they're watching one thing, but they're watching another,

Evan: and then they've also looped it.

Hugo: Nice! That was really good. That was a really cool explanation. I also want to say that,

Hugo: that the um what was the first one the rich guy oh uh they had that in the sting

Hugo: too remember they had the high roller the guy that pretended to be a high roller

Hugo: and the sting so it's it's like a call yeah i get that okay i love that love

Hugo: that that was a great explanation i.

Bill: Think it's i think it's such a testament to the film and like the writing and

Bill: the the way it's directed and how you're drawn into it that none of us knew

Bill: what any of that did we now know and we but until we've Never, never questioned it.

Bill: Never wondered. Never said, you know what? What was that all? No.

Bill: You just, you're along from the ride. That's part of the world.

Bill: And you buy into it. And it makes the world feel whole.

Evan: Here's what, like, I would say, like, so one of the things that's great,

Evan: too, like, there's lots of great, like, little speeches and bits.

Evan: But, like, when they all come to Vegas and they're sort of, like,

Evan: hearing the plan, like, they're all, like, on the pool deck,

Evan: you know, drinking and eating.

Evan: And they go inside. And George Clooney is, like, we have, like,

Evan: there's this thing and that thing.

Evan: And then they're like, you know, so once we get through the vault,

Evan: which we can't get into and we steal the thing and like do all these things

Evan: and he's conning them in a way to do the thing, but like together.

Evan: But they're also conning us as the audience to convince us to like,

Evan: sure, yeah, we can totally do pull this off.

Evan: And it's like the con is like going in all different ways.

Evan: So I just it's I think it will make this so good.

Hugo: I saw inconsistencies this time around. Yeah.

Hugo: I think I was, whenever I rewatch it for like the episode, when you tell me

Hugo: we're going to do an episode, I always rewatch it and I try to look at it from

Hugo: like a different angle if it's not the first time I've watched the film.

Hugo: You know what I mean? So I saw a lot of like weird inconsistencies that didn't make sense.

Hugo: How come there's no gate security at the place where they hold the biggest EMP bomb?

Hugo: You know what I mean? Like they literally just drove up. It's an open parking

Hugo: lot. Like if they really had that bomb, there would be real like gate security. You know what I mean?

Hugo: Like you would have to go through like a thing. They only open the fence for

Hugo: you if you like get through. That's one thing, but not that huge.

Hugo: Also, the fact that they drew up the plan ahead of time that Ocean gets like

Hugo: fake arrested and fake beat up by a dude that's on their payroll.

Hugo: before anyone found out that the casino owner is sleeping with Danny Ocean's ex-wife.

Hugo: Like, that's just like, what? Like, he kind of...

Evan: When did he have time to pay off the bruiser?

Hugo: Right, and how did he know that they were going to hire a bruiser?

Hugo: I mean, I guess they already knew that that's the guy they always hire for that,

Hugo: but he already had two goons. And then when he gets...

Bill: I think that it is...

Bill: I think we have to assume that those things took place because Danny always intended those things.

Bill: Like he always knew he was going to get caught out for that for like, you know, tests.

Bill: Like I always assumed that he was always playing that, um, like he was always

Bill: running that side hustle and always intended to have those things happen.

Bill: So he was already looking ahead at that because there is the hustle side where they say that,

Bill: But then there's the like the trope of like who does what and like in a in a

Bill: team and Danny Ocean really is the epitome of the mastermind when it comes to that kind of thing.

Evan: Which is sort of funny about the film in general is you sort of like obviously

Evan: he comes up with the plan and everyone's executing different things.

Evan: But in a way you're almost don't see him doing anything.

Evan: You know what I mean? Like he's not what he until the end when he sort of,

Evan: but, but behind it, he is doing all these orchestrations.

Bill: What he's doing, what he's doing.

Bill: You're actually, when you, when you're looking for what he's doing,

Bill: what you're actually doing is watching other people fulfill the things he laid in place.

Hugo: Yes. Yeah. It just seems like a lot of like hoops to jump through that he keeps

Hugo: everyone else in the shadows, but they also knew that.

Hugo: some of the things the other thing okay here's the other one that

Hugo: early early on you see frank trailing

Hugo: the guy that's in love with the stripper charmaine and

Hugo: then brad pitt meets up with her and she's like you know she tells him the stuff

Hugo: he gives her a hundred dollars and he says tell your mom i said how like don't

Hugo: worry she's on next if we just saw frank tailing charmaine how does Brad Pitt

Hugo: already know her and know her mom?

Bill: No, no, he did not tell Charmaine.

Hugo: He told the guy that's in love with Charmaine.

Bill: Yes.

Hugo: But what are the chances he was in love with a girl that Brad Pitt already knew?

Bill: Listen, that's just the plot of the movie.

Hugo: Man.

Bill: You can't, you know, you can't, what are you doing, man? What are you doing?

Bill: What are you doing here, man? You know how it worked that way?

Bill: Because that's the way they wrote the movie.

Hugo: It's just one of those things that it's just like.

Bill: So, but like, all right, all right, let me, let me, let me spin it this way to you. Okay.

Bill: What that really is, is this is, for all the fact that this movie,

Bill: so if we want to take this from a leftist perspective, right? Okay.

Bill: Terry Benedict really is the bourgeoisie in very much in the way that he feels

Bill: isolated and protected from everybody else.

Bill: And what Danny Ocean and Rusty and all the rest of the 11 really prove is that

Bill: you are vulnerable to the people that you see as beneath you because we are all, we are everywhere.

Bill: We, we listen to, to, to go back to a different Brad Pitt character in, in flight club, right?

Bill: We wash your clothes, we clean your houses, wash your clothes,

Bill: you know, fill your car, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Bill: I don't remember the exact what it is, but it's, it's literally what it is.

Bill: The story is it's like, yeah, no.

Bill: They all know each other. Why wouldn't he, because they are all part of that

Bill: under the lower class, the underclass as Tyree Benedict sees it.

Bill: And really that's what it is. Like the entire character of those of is a complete

Bill: character of the lower class, the working class that do the work for these people

Bill: and are isolated from them.

Bill: And you never, those people never think, oh, wait a minute, they know each other.

Bill: and and if it can like that can

Bill: bite me in the ass if i don't treat people

Bill: right because in the end they all

Bill: have each other's they in a perfect world we'd

Bill: all have each other's backs and we'd unite but like when it comes down to it

Bill: people do they have each other's backs and they will stand against the big guy

Bill: and this is in this case that is it is brad pitt knows why does he know charmaine

Bill: well because they're they're from the same they're from the same hood they're

Bill: from the same area they're from the same class he.

Hugo: Knows her mom.

Bill: That's what he knows her mom yeah yeah.

Evan: And here's the here's the inconsistency that i saw this time is when they need

Evan: to rob to get that like emp device to knock out the power to like,

Evan: the pinch is that what they call like the little like a basher needs that pinch

Evan: they show where they go and i feel it's like cal university but like that seems

Evan: pretty far from las vegas and they just like quickly zoomed off you know you

Evan: know i don't know they do they.

Bill: Do make it clear that they're i do think that they reference that like a taking

Bill: amount of time when they cut back to ruben and he's like where are they and it's like.

Evan: They'll be that's true they are gone so So they're gone for a long time.

Bill: They're gone for a while and they do reference it. I do think that part of this,

Bill: I think you're always going to find these kinds of things because this is a

Bill: movie with 11 main characters straight off the bat.

Bill: That's before we hit the, the antagonist crew.

Bill: Like that's before you hit Terry Benedict. That's before you hit Julia Robert.

Bill: Like this is 11 main characters. Like you, unless you have a two and a half,

Bill: three hour movie, you're gonna, you have to squeeze things and like,

Bill: you know, yeah, you know.

Evan: I'm being like, you know.

Bill: You are, and you don't deserve it. Cause this is the greatest movie of all time.

Hugo: It's like, it's like if, it's like if you're Steven Soderbergh,

Hugo: like defending your film, but we're just like, these are the things that are

Hugo: wrong. No, there were other inconsistencies,

Hugo: but I understand from a film perspective why they had to do it.

Hugo: The way the guys left the bellboy uniforms in the elevator.

Bill: My wife said the same thing.

Hugo: Someone's going to be like, why are these bellboy? Hey, we got to find two guys

Hugo: that dress up like bellboys. You know what I mean?

Hugo: But for the film, it makes sense because we get to see that they're switching

Hugo: uniforms, which I love that they are like five different people.

Hugo: You know, they go from, like, being the security guards to being the bellboys.

Bill: The balloon delivery guy?

Hugo: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bill: And then a bunch of fucking circus animals.

Hugo: The other, the other two inconsistencies. And I'm sorry, I'm still going to

Hugo: just, just like I pointed them out.

Hugo: I noted them. The other one is why did everyone riot when the lights went out? The power goes.

Bill: Oh, come on. That is not an inconsistency. That is a valid observation of human

Bill: behavior. Here's the thing.

Hugo: Everyone's rioting, right? You're like, this is crazy. Everyone's writing at

Hugo: the game. They're writing.

Hugo: They're trying to steal right at the casino. And then two minutes later,

Hugo: Terry walks with Julia Roberts and she walks through and goes into the casino,

Hugo: finds Brad Pitt's character who's on the phone,

Hugo: but behind him, the casino's fine. Everyone's just chilling.

Hugo: What happened to all the riots?

Bill: I actually missed that. I missed that.

Hugo: Where did all the riots go? It was like, it's literally within like five minutes

Hugo: of it, of the riots. Like now everyone's just playing.

Evan: It's because Terry Benedict runs a tight ship and he's able to get his casino back.

Bill: He walked through and people were like, oh, shit, I'm going to behave now.

Hugo: They're like, oh, okay, I won't steal. And then the other thing that bothered

Hugo: me is, because I love that George Clooney and Matt Damon are doing this Mission Impossible stuff.

Hugo: Because it's like Jason Bourne and Batman.

Hugo: But then, like, they throw that hockey puck thing into, to knock the teacher.

Hugo: And they immediately open the doors and step out, like, without gas masks on.

Hugo: Like, dude, the thing knocked them out, but the gas is dissipated within that.

Hugo: few seconds just movie magic it's movie magic i love it i.

Bill: Love it magic yeah i love that little thing i don't know why it's so cool yeah

Bill: i don't know why i've always loved that thing and he just he slides it perfectly yeah,

Bill: He's a pro bocce ball player, I bet you.

Evan: Yes. Or a shovel board.

Bill: Or curling.

Evan: One of the, like, the thing, I was, like, watching it this time,

Evan: and I was thinking, too, is where were the, like, the biggest moments where

Evan: the plan, like, almost falls apart? Like, one of the cons, like, breaks down?

Evan: And I think this time, like, I mean, I guess it's the obvious one,

Evan: but I couldn't find another,

Evan: is when, like, when Saul is doing the Lyman Zerga thing, and the random dude

Evan: in the casino recognizes him as Saul and he just sort of plays it off being

Evan: like I don't know, what the fuck are you talking about?

Evan: And Terry Benedict I feel like could have been more suspicious there,

Evan: but he wasn't because he just needs to deal with this guy and move on.

Bill: I feel like they partly relied on the fact that Terry Benedict basically was

Bill: so robotic, but also I feel like they kind of relied on the fact that like he

Bill: thought he was untouchable.

Bill: Part of it is like also just his hubris.

Hugo: Yeah.

Bill: Like, and like, which is again, to go back to like the you know,

Bill: we are left with the projector you know, to go back.

Bill: These people in these positions of power often operate under these assumptions

Bill: of hubris and like that nothing can change and that everything will always stay

Bill: the same the way it is for their benefit and he very much embodies that. Very much so.

Evan: I think that's the, is there any other moments you can think of though where

Evan: they almost like blow it?

Bill: When, um...

Evan: Yen's hand gets stuck and he almost drops the suitcase.

Bill: When the briefcase almost falls off, yes, which was just pure, like, happenstance.

Bill: Like, that's not even, like, somebody fucking, like, you know,

Bill: that's, like, nobody could predict that.

Bill: But when Livingston Dell, he almost gives himself away in a big way.

Hugo: That's what I was going to say.

Bill: That's what you were going to say, right? Yeah.

Hugo: When he's, like, he can't, he gets lost, and then the guy's,

Hugo: like, hey, hey, and he's trying to get his attention. You think, oh, my God, this is it.

Hugo: And he's, like, trying to, he's, like, hey, you forgot this.

Hugo: And it's just, like, the one thing, the little scanner thing you forgot.

Evan: And then I like he's also like, does that thing get a good reception too,

Evan: right? And he's like, yeah.

Bill: And they referenced that early on when they're like, how are his nerves?

Bill: It's known that he cannot play it cool.

Hugo: Yeah, he was freaking out. Another thing, a little weird thing,

Hugo: he's wearing gloves in the beginning when he scans it and he's wearing these big yellow gloves.

Hugo: And then he's got the map drawn on his hand. But I feel like wouldn't the gloves make the...

Hugo: ink and his hand disappear sorry you look yellow.

Bill: Gloves on that scene.

Hugo: Wearing gloves when he first scans in and then when he's inside and after he

Hugo: does the whole thing he's walking you're.

Bill: Right you're right yeah yeah.

Hugo: And the map is but i mean that whole thing would be gone that whole map would

Hugo: be gone if you were wearing those big yellow gloves they make your hand sweat but.

Evan: It was smart to write it on your hand because if he had a piece of paper that's like evidence.

Hugo: That someone can find again it's like stuff that for the film it has to it has

Hugo: to work it also they made it so that like it kind of got sweaty and fell off but enough that they.

Bill: Showed that it was already a little smudgy.

Hugo: Yeah i feel.

Bill: Like that was actually the way they did that that was intentional almost as

Bill: like to lead into that to like predict that.

Hugo: When yen gets mad at them when like he had just had his hand stuck they blow

Hugo: up the door right and he basically they the blow up didn't took too long actually

Hugo: so he had time to get out and then when they blow the door and they get in he's

Hugo: like where were you guys?

Hugo: And he's like, wait, why are you mad that they're late? If they would have been

Hugo: on time, you'd be dead, right?

Evan: Also, even if they had done it right, it seemed like that explosion could have still killed him.

Bill: Oh, hells yeah!

Evan: He gets like... That seemed like a terribly bad part of the plan.

Evan: Also, it also is kind of amazing that they were able to blow the door with those explosives.

Hugo: Yeah.

Evan: You know, but...

Hugo: Yeah.

Evan: I'll buy it. I'll buy it. I don't know how to call it. I think it's like Terry

Evan: Benedict too is like, he assumes no one could even get to the vault so why make

Evan: it explosive more explosive proof right like again the hubris I.

Bill: Don't know how vaults work I'm not a vault builder I'm not a vault expert in

Bill: this life I'm not a gentleman thief.

Evan: You know what would have been great is if Scott Kahn had been the explosive,

Evan: thief guy because his dad James Kahn was in the movie The Thief and also robbed,

Evan: stuff too so that would have been a perfect continuity thing but I digress I

Evan: didn't realize Well, one of my, yeah, it's his dad.

Evan: One of the, like one of, I think I was telling you, or maybe I posted in the

Evan: chat, is like one of my favorite, there are like lots of great lines.

Evan: We're talking about the dialogue,

Evan: The one that I always go back to is when Brad Pitt is, like,

Evan: coaching Matt Damon, like, once he's in his suit and he's going to go,

Evan: like, do the con to get the codes.

Evan: And he's going through all the things you can't do. And then he's,

Evan: like, under no circumstances, can you?

Evan: And then he's, like, hey, can you come into here for a second?

Evan: He's, like, sure, one second.

Evan: And he leaves and, like, you never find out what it is. And I always think to

Evan: myself, like, what was the thing he was going to tell me?

Bill: Every time. And you, like.

Evan: He's, like, don't tell him that the guy at the gaming commission died.

Evan: that's another thing too like what if that guy hadn't died.

Bill: I assume they did their research okay i assume they

Bill: did their research if i was gonna pretend to be from i i would have done my

Bill: fucking research yeah i actually spend the rest of that movie watching matt

Bill: damon's character to see if he does what he shouldn't do or avoids doing it

Bill: so i can figure out what it was you're not supposed to do maybe.

Hugo: They gave it away the thing that he was like and absolutely by any you do never

Hugo: by any means do should you and then maybe matt damon does it and gives it away

Hugo: but i can't think of what it could possibly be.

Bill: Yeah i've never been able to figure it out but i but i think about it the whole time every time i.

Evan: Know it's hard not to like uh what did you what could you have done he also

Evan: feels like matt damon's like con too like he he.

Bill: Succeeds but i feel like there's.

Evan: Moments throughout his where you're like is he gonna succeed though like he

Evan: he agitates you know bernie mack like you know calling him the the uh the the a,

Evan: Not the ultimate bad word, but close to it.

Hugo: Oh, I remember. Yes. What does he say? Colored?

Bill: Yes. Colored, yeah. We at the Nevada Gaming Commission pride ourselves on, fuck, what is it?

Bill: Like providing equal opportunity to colored employees. I forget exactly,

Bill: but I know it starts out with, you, sir, of course, no. We at the Nevada Gaming Commission.

Evan: He says now as i was saying the nevada game is strictly forbids the employment of colored i mean,

Evan: no awkward also like the

Evan: i i hate that we're like going through some of these like these things

Evan: but the other thing is wouldn't so

Evan: the the con there was to steal the codes that they change constantly and they're

Evan: in terry benedict's pocket would he does he need to use the codes like would

Evan: he at some point be like where did they go what happened to them or is it like

Evan: he doesn't really need to use the codes because everyone just like open shit for him yeah.

Bill: I don't think he needs to that's good.

Evan: It just again one of those things where like he just holds them and everyone else my thing.

Hugo: Was the flyers all the porn flyers how do you have all those porn flyers in

Hugo: the in like the casino downstairs to bring up to bring into because remember

Hugo: they go out in the bags so they have all these bags.

Hugo: They actually carry these giant bags up and put them in this van.

Hugo: it turns out they were all full of porn flyers. How did they get all those porn flyers downstairs?

Bill: Um, I believe they're in one of the carts that the two brothers loads in.

Hugo: But the cart had a yen in it.

Bill: There's more than one like compartment of those carts.

Hugo: It's just, it's crazy. I wouldn't have paid attention to any of the stuff except

Hugo: because we were going to do the episode.

Hugo: Otherwise I was just like, you know, it's like movie magic to us.

Hugo: You know, when you first.

Evan: Especially the title, of this episode is debunking Ocean's Eleven.

Evan: The greatest con, con movie of all time.

Bill: Yeah.

Hugo: We got con. Dude, that was...

Bill: And Bill defends it the entire time.

Hugo: But can we say...

Evan: Bill Soderbergh.

Hugo: Can we just say... Bill Soderbergh. Can we just say that that is such a good con?

Hugo: I never... Even though this is like my third, fourth time watching,

Hugo: I was like... The whole movie was like, how do they get the money out?

Hugo: I was like, is this one of those films where they leave the money in the place?

Hugo: Like, there's a movie like that where the money never left the vault or something

Hugo: and it was like no it was the SWAT team like what spoiler alert by the way to

Hugo: anyone listening but I just gave up the ending and that that's to me that still

Hugo: surprised me I just watched it on Sunday and I was still like what the SWAT team I forgot going.

Evan: Back to Matt Damon so in the description for him he just is listed as a pickpocket who aids.

Hugo: Danny like.

Evan: Which is kind of a funny way to describe him he's not really a con man like

Evan: he kind of just wings it which is insane.

Hugo: Another funny thing about that

Hugo: Danny Ocean had those cards printed the whole time he was in prison too,

Hugo: there's no way he went to the you know what after prison,

Hugo: respect respect he just.

Evan: It was a nice car really nice car patrick bateman would have been impressed let's.

Hugo: See paul allen's card no no no no wait wait show me danny ocean's card.

Evan: That would be that would actually be a pretty funny meme to make and it's like

Evan: he flips it over and it's and it.

Hugo: Just says whatever he wrote to what was it like you know something's bar like,

Hugo: like mitzvah oh my god it's him.

Evan: The thing that they don't they don't learn it till like one of the sequels is

Evan: like they keep referencing to like matt damon's parents a little bit like oh

Evan: like you know yeah like oh his father like you're you like your assumption he's

Evan: like a big con man but he or something like that you know but it's not like revealed it's.

Hugo: You know all these inconsistencies though like i feel like in the writer's room

Hugo: like they're definitely like no one's gonna like At first sight,

Hugo: people are going to love this film. It is tight.

Hugo: It is fast. There is so much going on. There are so many details.

Hugo: There are so many characters.

Hugo: It's full of comedy and drama and mystery because you don't really know what's

Hugo: going on. There's a sleight of hand thing going on here.

Hugo: So when you're in the writer's room...

Hugo: absolutely killed it like all the details that

Hugo: were all the inconsistencies that we find that's just

Hugo: stuff that like oh you know like it doesn't matter it

Hugo: doesn't matter because the the film works you're still

Hugo: tricked at the end again i still had no idea like wait the money wasn't there

Hugo: the SWAT team took you know it still works and it works really well and you

Hugo: care about you know danny ocean you care about julia roberts terry wouldn't

Hugo: kiss julia roberts even though he owns the casino. Remember that?

Hugo: In the art gallery? He's like, not here. There's always somebody watching. What?

Bill: When they sit down for that date, my wife literally was like,

Bill: what do you talk to with that man?

Bill: What is it like? What do you think being with that man is like?

Bill: What a boring relationship.

Bill: Why would you stay with him?

Hugo: My wife kept saying he looked like Dracula.

Bill: Seriously. She's like, what do you talk to about this, man? I'm like numbers, just numbers go up.

Hugo: It's like, what do you talk to with any rich person? You know what I mean?

Hugo: All those guys are like, yeah, like just the worst people to talk to,

Hugo: especially for like long periods of time in a relationship. You know what I mean?

Hugo: Quick banter, like back and forth, you know, from me working in the service

Hugo: industry, like I could easily have a conversation with guys like that,

Hugo: but just imagine like being in a relationship with that person. Like, oh my God. Yeah.

Bill: I mean, I've, in my position as what I do, like I've talked to,

Bill: I've talked to a lot of fucking rich people, people who really think like people who,

Bill: when I say rich, I mean, fucking really rich people and they talk and it's just

Bill: you, the entire time you just get, it's like, they're just talking to hear themselves talk.

Bill: and it's just like you can talk to them but it's like the entire time it's like

Bill: how can they get out of this trap you want to chew your leg off like a fox in the trap can't.

Hugo: Stand it I also feel like,

Hugo: What we were saying before about how the working class like works together to

Hugo: like and like the rich don't even realize that they're all in solid.

Hugo: They could be in solidarity with themselves because they all know each other.

Hugo: They're from the same class.

Hugo: I feel like the thing that I got is that like, oh, like Terry's character can

Hugo: get away with doing illegal things and having people beat up and having people murdered or whatever.

Hugo: But what we can't see it. You know what I mean? like the government can sell

Hugo: drugs you know and like steal drugs from another country and bring you know flood uh you know kidnap.

Bill: Other countries leaders.

Hugo: Yeah they could kidnap other countries leader they could you

Hugo: know like the opium trade they could like um you know flooding the the hood

Hugo: with crack but if you have a family you know you have two kids and you're trying

Hugo: to feed that family and you and you go sell weed you can get arrested and go

Hugo: to jail for five six years Same thing with Danny Ocean, you know what I mean?

Hugo: Danny Ocean gets arrested and put away for trying to, you know, for one little heist.

Hugo: Meanwhile, you got Terry, you know, ripping places off and stealing, literally gambling.

Hugo: I mean, the house always wins, you know what I mean? So.

Evan: It reminds me too of like just the idea that,

Evan: like wage theft is like the number like exceeds all other types of theft like

Evan: in the entire country and that's just rich people stealing from employers and

Evan: or employees and yeah like you said you know it is funny that you call it like

Evan: one little heist but it's like a hundred.

Bill: But yeah i get just a little heist just a little but like i mean but you know what,

Bill: but you know what like in the grand scheme of things like it

Bill: is straight up this is like when we talk about like

Bill: the comparison of retail theft versus wage theft like yeah

Bill: in comparison to what the federal government does or what the ruling class commits

Bill: against us on a daily basis the 111 million dollars or however that's fucking

Bill: yeah that's one little heist it's tiny it's miniscule. It's fucking meaningless.

Bill: I mean, they're literally right now hiding that they're hiding multiples,

Bill: like, exponentially more money. They're hiding as they prepare to create an

Bill: AI bubble burst. Like...

Hugo: Another example.

Evan: Yeah.

Hugo: Sorry, you go ahead.

Evan: I was just saying like $160 million is it's like a tenth of a billion.

Evan: And you think about the rich people who have hundreds of those billions.

Hugo: So I was going to say it's like the nurses right now striking like they're begging

Hugo: for, you know, equal staffing on the floor so that they can take care of multiple

Hugo: patients at once. And the hospital is like, no.

Hugo: And then as soon as they leave, like we will pay. They're paying travel nurses $10,000 a week.

Hugo: they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars to cover the strike meanwhile

Hugo: how much would it cost to just staff the floors better right like it's just like it's.

Evan: Less it's always less yeah it's like how much money amazon and starbucks spend

Evan: to union bust is exceeds the cost of the actual needs but it's not about for

Evan: most of these like it's not about the money they want to pay them,

Evan: it's giving workers any leverage or rights of any kind, because if they give

Evan: them something, oh no, they might actually want more.

Evan: They might want to be paid a little bit more, you know, from these rich billionaires.

Evan: So it's, again, it's like, it's not about the money. It's about the more Danny oceans, please.

Hugo: More Danny oceans. Even you can't be a Danny ocean.

Hugo: Every single one of us can be Danny ocean if we really want it.

Hugo: We just need, also, I love that he always gets arrested in a tux.

Hugo: You notice that? He always walks out of prison.

Bill: Yeah.

Hugo: Like tux with the, with the collar down, like just classy, classy.

Hugo: Reminds me of Paul Newman and Robert Redford, you know, that whole, like, just real classy.

Hugo: God, I love, yeah. I was just going to say I love George Clooney.

Evan: And you literally just described the cast of The Sting.

Hugo: I love The Sting. That's one of my favorite films of all time.

Hugo: This is, Ocean's Eleven is up.

Hugo: Ocean's Eleven is definitely up there. I think I just, like Bill said,

Hugo: I just love heist movies. I love con artist movies.

Hugo: They're just fun, and I love that they're tricking us. That's what I like that they're trying to get.

Bill: Yeah. It's like a magic trick.

Hugo: Yeah, exactly.

Bill: The movie itself is a magic trick as well. And you, you know,

Bill: it's like you are constantly like, you know, question.

Bill: It's like, Oh, you know, like what is it? You know, perfect.

Hugo: How do you, how do you win these things?

Evan: Yeah. I feel like this is like easily in the top five, if not like top three

Evan: heist movies ever, you know, like this, the sting.

Evan: Um, I feel like there's one I'm missing that goes up there at the top.

Evan: We were going to think of it like we were talking about before.

Bill: Dungeons and Dragons on our month, Thieves.

Bill: which I will match six, listen, match six, when it comes to highest movies,

Bill: I will like, I'm not joking.

Bill: Dungeons and Dragons honors among thieves is a great heist movie and a great fucking movie.

Hugo: I liked it. It was really good. I didn't think I was going to like it.

Hugo: I thought it was going to be corny.

Hugo: And then I saw someone mention it as like, Hey, like this movie is actually

Hugo: pretty good. And it was, it was awesome.

Bill: I never, so I.

Hugo: Didn't think it would be.

Bill: One of the greatest things about that movie. And Evan, you can cut this out.

Bill: Clearly. this is unrelated to oceans 11

Bill: or anything else um if you are

Bill: a dungeons and dragons fan or like a huge

Bill: dungeon dragons nerd as i am um one of the things about that movie which is

Bill: so good is that it really like if you know dungeons and dragons that game that

Bill: movie first of all like the combat actually follows combat rules of dungeons

Bill: and dragons and it fits like actual like initiative turn order of a Dungeons & Dragons combat.

Bill: It fits within the time frame of a Dungeons & Dragons combat,

Bill: the way it would work, and a lot of the characters.

Bill: It's very true to the game. It is very true to the game in a lot of ways.

Evan: I haven't seen it.

Bill: Honestly, it's a great movie. Actually, I love that movie.

Bill: Yes, I am a huge Dungeons & Dragons. I've been playing it forever.

Bill: I've run games forever and written for it. Whatever.

Bill: But yes, I still think it's a great movie.

Hugo: I've always wished I could play Dungeons and Dragons. I played with a group

Hugo: for a little bit, but life is like, it's just, it just never works out.

Hugo: Like there's always so much more going on.

Hugo: So I really wish maybe later in life, you know, when we're one day.

Bill: One day I'll, I'll run one for you and Evan and somebody else,

Bill: at least one other person. Um,

Bill: To go back to the money in the van.

Hugo: Oh, you want to go back?

Bill: I honestly think they just had, like, I don't think it's important.

Bill: I think they just, because like, we don't know where they actually get the bags from.

Bill: Like, assuming that they're like, oh, like, they meet somewhere in the lower levels of the hotel.

Bill: Like, those bags could have been stashed someplace at any point.

Bill: and porn flyers i assume from what movies tell me are not hard to come by or

Bill: they're not rare in vegas like they're

Bill: not rare from what i've been led to believe i've never been to vegas,

Bill: um so i don't think seeing a stack of porn flyers would be you know notable right.

Hugo: I just mean but it definitely is a loose end it feels like a loose end that's

Hugo: what i that's what i'm trying That's another chance.

Bill: It could afford to have been clarified.

Hugo: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hugo: It's just one of those things where like they tricked us and it's like,

Hugo: whoa, good trick. I would have never seen that coming.

Hugo: And then on a rewatch, you're like, oh, where'd that come from?

Hugo: Actually, how did they get that?

Hugo: It doesn't make any sense. And then I'm like, wait, I, the guys.

Bill: I think this is one of those times where you just kind of have to just,

Bill: you just, it's suspension of disbelief. You just go.

Hugo: Yeah. And I think that's the thing with all of it. Like, that's what I was saying,

Hugo: that all of it makes sense in the grand scheme of things, because for the cinematic

Hugo: value, you know, it has to.

Bill: Yeah.

Hugo: That's like when uh i keep saying i keep bringing up

Hugo: when legolas is like standing on the hill and the horses come up behind them

Hugo: and he like grabs onto the reins and like swings one way but ends up swinging

Hugo: the other way like that defies the laws of physics like how did he do that he's

Hugo: an elf he's an elf he's an elf he's an elf he's an elf like he's an elf elves.

Bill: Can also walk on top of snow.

Hugo: What's your point dude.

Evan: Can see like 50 miles ahead with his.

Hugo: Regular eyes like come on elves.

Bill: Can walk on top of snow like canonically.

Hugo: They can walk.

Bill: On the top of grass if they want.

Hugo: Like i'm not gonna.

Bill: Question i'm not gonna question how he can flip around a horse.

Hugo: That's what i'm saying like that's that's the equivalent of us being like but

Hugo: how did the porn flyers get there like who cares like the.

Bill: Legolas's vision is so like legolas's vision actually proves that middle earth

Bill: is actually flat because otherwise the horizon would have stopped him.

Hugo: Oh you're one of those you're a flat middle earther.

Bill: No but that's that's actually like middle earth is actually flat.

Hugo: Really is it like yeah like war.

Bill: Wise like according to tolkien yes.

Hugo: Middle earth is fat i was gonna say this feels like the conversation this is

Hugo: how the conversation would go with a flat earther like yeah actually He is flat, though. I mean...

Bill: Yeah, but no, actually, Middle-Earth actually is flat.

Hugo: Okay. No, I believe you. I believe that Tolkien. If he said it is, then I believe it.

Hugo: He's looking it up.

Evan: I think you're right, but also wrong. I think he changed it.

Bill: It changes. Yes. Over time, it's, yes, it changes over time.

Hugo: Okay. Oh, my God.

Evan: Are we saying that, was Tolkien the first flat Earth?

Bill: He did not believe the Earth was flat. Okay.

Evan: Number one. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Sorry, Tolkien. Sorry.

Hugo: We can't hear you.

Evan: I apologize.

Hugo: Not where he is.

Evan: Do you have any final thoughts to go on? I almost said on seize the means, but like, that's you.

Evan: um on uh on uh oceans 11.

Hugo: Um no just i feel like what i said in

Hugo: the beginning that i you know it had a big impact on me when

Hugo: i was when i was younger and looking at it now it's

Hugo: just it's such a perfect film because it's again

Hugo: it's like a match it's like they're doing a match it's like you know

Hugo: when you walk what you see like new york is when you go

Hugo: to the street and there's a guy with a box and he's doing like the three

Hugo: card trick like the sleight of hand three card monty there's

Hugo: a car that's what this film feels like they're just what's it

Hugo: called three card monty three card monty yes it's

Hugo: like that's what the whole film is it's like they make you think one

Hugo: thing and you have no idea you have

Hugo: no idea i didn't even you know the only reason i knew there was going to be

Hugo: a twist this time around is because i'd seen it before but like the first time

Hugo: you watch it you're like what is go how are they going to do this and then you

Hugo: don't never see the twist coming um and you like all the characters you know

Hugo: i liked the way every single character was introduced.

Hugo: You know, like the way everyone kind of knows each other, even when you don't

Hugo: think they know each other, they do know each other.

Hugo: There's so much backstory that you don't get you know, that you don't know beforehand.

Hugo: Anyway, love the film.

Hugo: Like my wife says, this film, she says it's about many films,

Hugo: but it would have been perfect if they just would have kissed at the end.

Hugo: If everyone would have kissed at the end.

Bill: They did kiss.

Hugo: George Clooney and Brad Pitt did not kiss at the end.

Evan: Oh, okay.

Hugo: Great great chemistry no kissing he.

Evan: Brad pitt couldn't have kissed him because he would have had food.

Hugo: Yeah he.

Bill: Would have to stop eating.

Evan: So i i actually forgot to share this the reason why he's eating the whole time

Evan: was his own idea that he was saying how like when you're involved in one of

Evan: heists like this you're constantly stressed and planning and you don't have

Evan: time to eat so he's just like all right i'm gonna be casing the joint i'm gonna just be eating a.

Hugo: Shrimp cocktail you know whatever he's eating a burger when he picks him up

Hugo: from jail he looks like he's gonna puke.

Evan: He's got a lollipop.

Hugo: He looks like he's gonna puke at the end he's like he's.

Bill: Developing the old man's ulcers.

Hugo: Ah literally it's coming around

Hugo: you're right i didn't even think that's that's

Hugo: great that's very well love that that's why

Hugo: he has ulcers because he's always stress he saw was always stress eating i thought

Hugo: he died at the end he did technically die i think that's why i thought he died

Hugo: because he fakes he snakes the whole movie as soon as they introduced i was

Hugo: like oh man i told my wife oh poor guy dies at the end and he doesn't die.

Evan: And they and they also like that's crazy too not only do they fake the swat but they also fake the.

Hugo: Emt oh yeah and the doctor remember brad pitt is a doctor with the dumb wig.

Evan: Yeah his wig is terrible oh man.

Hugo: Oh my god great film.

Evan: It's just, it's a classic. Like it's one of those ones where,

Evan: like I said, like you could just turn it on. Like it doesn't matter. Just watch it.

Hugo: Oh, and George Clooney and Brad Pitt have such good chemistry.

Hugo: I was going to say that the reason I remembered all this because I turned on,

Hugo: they have a new film out where George Clooney and Brad Pitt, it's called Wolfs.

Hugo: W-O-L-F-S, which is not the plural of Wolfs.

Bill: Yeah, that's not that. That's not what that word is.

Hugo: It's about an action comedy film starring George William and Brad Pitt as rival

Hugo: fixers forced to work together to cover up a crime leading to a chaotic night in New York City.

Hugo: It's one of those where if you watch the trailer, they give away the entire

Hugo: film. So you know it can't be that great.

Bill: It's a good thing I don't watch trailers.

Hugo: Can't be that great. But it looks entertaining enough.

Hugo: You get to watch those two guys, you know. Yeah, don't watch the trailer.

Hugo: All the jokes are in the trailer. You know what I mean?

Evan: Yeah. I was saying the only time I ever watched trailers really is if it's a

Evan: movie I know that I'm not going to see or like a dumb movie like where it doesn't matter.

Evan: Or if I go to a movie like in the theater and like you're kind of forced,

Evan: they're on the screen. So the goal is to get there late or just like be on your

Evan: phone and yuck it up with the people around you being like, ha ha ha.

Evan: That's got to hurt, you know, like be one of those guys. I love this movie.

Evan: It's so good. And we're joking too. We should just do more heist movies as the

Evan: heist crew, like the Ocean's,

Evan: The Left of the Projector 3. The Sting would be a really good one to do.

Evan: Or maybe one of these ones you talked about, bajillionaires. Or kajillionaires.

Bill: Though I do think that both of you were entirely too critical of,

Bill: you know, way too much pointing out of supposed inconsistencies.

Bill: So, you know, that will have to be addressed.

Evan: The director would say that.

Bill: That will have to be addressed.

Hugo: It's i feel like there were there were so many because it's so big it's such

Hugo: a big film there were so many characters and it's a lot going on yeah there's.

Bill: A lot going on.

Hugo: And the but the writing so tight so tight like dialogue everything is just like

Hugo: bam bam bam bam like there's the hits just keep coming every single scene is

Hugo: a is a hit or funny or you know oh what about when When Frank's face,

Hugo: when Frank strong arms the car dealer, he just squeezes his...

Bill: With the gloves. Wow. I thought I'm allergic to the camp.

Bill: Which, you know what? Bernie Mac, every time I watch this movie,

Bill: I just think, Bernie Mac, what a fucking loss.

Bill: Like, just such a fucking incredible actor.

Bill: Absolutely amazing. he his presence in this movie really is something else like

Bill: his portrayal the scene where it's everything he does in this movie is so like,

Bill: It feels understated and yet so powerful.

Bill: The entire scene when he is in the room, the interrogation room with Matt Damon

Bill: and Eddie Garcia, and the way he responds and the little hand gestures by the mouth.

Evan: And he like waves his hand away.

Bill: All those little, like, he puts his hand by his mouth, like he's covering it up. It's all so perfect.

Bill: Bernie Mac, what a fucking legend.

Hugo: This like naturally what a.

Evan: Fucking legend yeah and like i almost feel like those weren't even necessarily

Evan: things they made i mean i don't know exactly if they told him to do those things

Evan: but like it just seems like he just is a natural you think he said like a natural

Evan: yeah just naturally funny doesn't he just.

Hugo: He definitely did a couple of cakes and he was just joking around

Hugo: like back and forth you know with matt damon like you know kind of

Hugo: yelling stuff yeah unrelated to this i saw a thing

Hugo: on interview with samuel l jackson he was saying that one of the annoying

Hugo: things is that back in the day like when things were on film

Hugo: like every take counted and now like

Hugo: they'll just like these new directors just film

Hugo: everything because it's all digital and a little chip and they'll just so you'll

Hugo: do like millions of takes and like you could you know it's just like keep it

Hugo: rolling you know it's just like so one of one of those things but i love remember

Hugo: outtakes at the end of the comedy films like at the end it's out film outtakes

Hugo: so it made me think of the bernie Mac and Damon thing.

Hugo: They probably have a bunch of funny takes going back and forth.

Bill: They still do outtakes, but nowadays they feel so much weaker.

Bill: I feel like it's like they don't... Because it's always going.

Bill: That's one of the things you see a lot of people talking about the film,

Bill: like film versus digital. They never really...

Bill: Nobody ever talks about that part. You know, it's always about,

Bill: like, oh, you know, like, how it makes it feel, you know, and the superiority

Bill: of, like, film over digital for various reasons.

Bill: And they never, you know, they never talk about that kind of,

Bill: like, aspect of it that, you know, in some ways it can lead to a more freeing,

Bill: you know, it's, like, because you could just keep honing things.

Hugo: Yeah, that's true.

Bill: It's interesting, you know.

Evan: Stanley Kubrick did not get the memo about stock being so precious.

Evan: yeah certainly some people did not care but then you also look at movies now

Evan: that are made with film like you know oppenheimer and sinners and these movies

Evan: like that are like like they're true crafts you know and so i think there's

Evan: something to be something that's lost with that.

Hugo: The music like the dancing scene in sinners or like they switch from different

Hugo: like eras remember that like scene god.

Bill: Fucking oh my god oh my god.

Hugo: Beautiful just so beautifully choreographed and like i wish i want to watch

Hugo: the making like do they have something out that's like the making of sinners out already i.

Evan: Have the blu-ray but i've only watched it i haven't watched any of the extras so i'm.

Hugo: Not sure i could watch like i could watch i love making of films that we love

Hugo: you know what i mean like so i would love to i.

Bill: Had the soundtrack on vinyl and i listened to it That's what I do.

Hugo: Oh, wonderful.

Bill: Oh, actually the sound, the, the

Bill: vinyl soundtrack has like a whole book on like, with like lore and shit.

Bill: It's pretty good. I'll have to, I'll have to go through. I'll take some pictures.

Bill: You know why they had that dancing scene in center style?

Bill: Because they couldn't afford special effects. So they had to,

Bill: you know, they did cut the dancing.

Hugo: That is such a, I did not realize that I, you know, I don't,

Hugo: I remember putting, I don't,

Hugo: and not finishing it i remember.

Bill: Was it.

Hugo: A musical did they really sing and dance in it in the original oceans 11.

Bill: No no this person is fucking unhinged it's totally irrelevant for.

Evan: People who need context here someone on reddit was complaining that the original

Evan: oceans 11 is one better than this one which is not true.

Bill: I don't know i don't think they know okay i will

Bill: read the thing this was

Bill: taken from reddit as a discussion about ocean's love

Bill: and the remake versus original the original comment

Bill: was that they liked the new one better because

Bill: and partly because such a star

Bill: studded cast somebody responds to

Bill: them and this is not them saying even that

Bill: the original was better but just that this

Bill: person didn't understand because times were

Bill: different and they said that's because you weren't born

Bill: back in that time which i also just love

Bill: it makes it sound like it was like 200 years ago

Bill: um during the time that the original was made dean martin sammy damas jr etc

Bill: were just as big as pit clooney and damon were in the remake if not bigger mind

Bill: you i'm not going to read it as this person wrote it which involves way too

Bill: many exclamation points and lots of caps,

Bill: because there's many actors to choose from back then. I'm just reading straight.

Bill: As there are today, that's why they are still remembered today as icons.

Bill: These movies were made back in a time when they actually had to act instead

Bill: of just using the F word, every other word, or blow in a bunch of things up,

Bill: which again, Ocean's Eleven, they're talking about the difference,

Bill: the comparison between these movies.

Bill: Ocean's Eleven, barely any cursing.

Hugo: No, yeah.

Bill: Barely any cursing. And nothing is blown up. They blow up the money. You don't even see it.

Hugo: But Matt Locke, Matt Locke. Matt Locke's closed their guns.

Bill: There are no major explosions are not a plot point in this movie.

Hugo: Oh, yeah.

Bill: In the comparison between these things, this is not a relevant argument.

Bill: And I'm not saying that Pitt, Clooney, and Damon are not good actors,

Bill: because they are some of the best.

Bill: Brad Pitt is my very favorite actor along with Damon. Personally, I can't stand Clooney.

Bill: I'm just saying it was a different era, and movies were different back then.

Bill: They didn't have all the special effects, et cetera, that we have to make movies

Bill: today. That makes an actor's job seem like he's doing a better job than he might really be doing.

Bill: I dispute that. I don't think special effects makes an actor's job easier.

Bill: That seems psychotic, especially because they're basically claiming explosions

Bill: make acting easier. I don't understand that.

Hugo: Okay. I admit I was going off of what you guys were saying in the chat.

Hugo: That's why I didn't understand.

Bill: Because, yeah, back then they had to do a lot of singing and dancing and other

Bill: things that actually ended up making a movie. because they did not have special

Bill: effects to make up for it.

Hugo: That's what I saw.

Bill: I love this idea. This person believes that back in the day when they would

Bill: have done something with special effects nowadays, instead they cut the song.

Bill: They're just like, fuck it. We can't blow this building up. Bring in Fred Astaire.

Bill: What the fuck are you talking about?

Evan: Let's see them remake a sound of music, which is lots of explosions and shit.

Bill: The Michael Bay sound of... This person's like literally... In their thesis,

Bill: Michael Bay is like, he's the auteur today because he's using the tools we have

Bill: available, which is explosions as opposed to music.

Bill: you know if michael bay had made the original west side story then no explosions

Bill: all dance it would have been no different because that's what you did back then

Bill: instead of have explosions,

Bill: okay i want to i want i i

Bill: want to make a fan cut of like i don't know a

Bill: fast and the furious movie right and every time something blows

Bill: up instead we just cut to dick van dyke he's he's doing a soft shoe shuffle

Bill: that's what i want every time just boom car blows up no boom fred astaire dancing

Bill: i don't i don't know other dancer people i don't know i don't tell you people

Bill: i don't know who else dances i.

Hugo: Don't know who else.

Bill: Ginger rogers it's ginger rogers fred astaire dick van dyke those Those are the only people I know.

Hugo: John Travolta. Grease.

Bill: Okay. All right. Yeah. They had explosions back then. That was a novelty. That was just.

Evan: Patrick Swayze.

Hugo: Patrick Swayze.

Evan: Dirty Dancing. Dirty Dancing.

Hugo: But he didn't sing and dance. He never sung and danced.

Bill: Yeah, he didn't sing and dance.

Evan: That's true. He's not a good actor.

Bill: No, you need to have singing and dancing. Without singing and dancing,

Bill: it doesn't make up for the lack of an explosion or the F-word.

Bill: That's also, you can just cut from the F-word to a dance scene.

Bill: Okay, but then what I love about this then is that this person now,

Bill: mid-conversation, saying this person just says, cuts to a description of them

Bill: watching the original Ocean's Eleven and saying, it is terrible and boring,

Bill: and they are falling asleep.

Hugo: I can't remember finishing the

Hugo: original. I feel like I put it on and I got bored. But I'm not 100% sure.

Bill: I never remember that it exists.

Hugo: Sometimes it's hard to watch the original of something when the remake is good and fast-paced.

Hugo: Like, Ocean's Eleven is very fast-paced. There's a lot going on. It's great.

Hugo: I don't remember the original Ocean's Eleven. You know what I did see the other

Hugo: day is A Star is Born, the 1937 one. Very good.

Hugo: Very, very good. It's not about a single at all. It's about like an actor.

Hugo: Where like the new one was, what's his face? With Bradley Cooper or Lady Gaga.

Bill: Yeah.

Hugo: I don't even think, oh, I didn't watch that. I actually don't know.

Hugo: I just saw this line where he's like, hey, I just wanted to see your face one more time. I love that.

Hugo: just wanted to see a smile on woodtown great film.

Evan: I got i got nothing else but uh hugo it's been a pleasure as always good time let the projector thank.

Bill: You for joining.

Evan: Us uh,

Evan: With Bill, of course, and you can subscribe to Let's Projector and you can go

Evan: follow Seize the Means shirts at all platforms.

Evan: TikTok still, do you still use? Yeah, I assume you still don't.

Hugo: Yeah.

Evan: I don't have TikTok. Instagram primarily.

Bill: We'll put all that in the show notes. So if people want to follow,

Bill: they can follow from our show notes. We'll put all the info right in there.

Bill: You should follow Seize the Means shirts.

Bill: He has incredible puppets. They are the best.

Hugo: We're having a good time over here in the puppet world.

Bill: The Sesame Street of Marxism.

Hugo: That's what we do over here.