How Financial Advisors Can Add Value Through Investment Management

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Ryan Nauman Market Strategist Zephyr:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to

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Zephyr's Adjusted for Risk podcast

from the shores of Lake Tahoe.

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I am Ryan Nauman, the market

strategist here at Zephyr.

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talk a lot on this show about the

evolution of the wealth management space.

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That evolution may be most evident in the

investment management segment of wealth

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management, driven by fee compression,

changing client demands, and technology.

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Well, I have on an industry expert who

is gonna share what he believes is the

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biggest trend in investment management

and how it provides an opportunity

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for financial advisors to add value.

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But first, today's episode is sponsored

by the award-winning Zephyr, which

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helps investment professionals

make more informed investment

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decisions on behalf of their clients.

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All right, enough from me.

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I've already talked enough.

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Let's go ahead and bring

on the star of the show.

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I'd like to give a very warm

welcome to Manju, Manju Borah.

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Manju is a head of systematic fixed income

and co-head of custom SMAs at Allspring.

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Manju, thank you so much

for coming on the show.

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It's an honor to have you, and I'm really

looking forward to this conversation.

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It's gonna be a fun one, very insightful.

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can you please tell us a little bit

more about yourself and Allspring?

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Manju Boraiah Head of Systematic Fixed Income, Co-Head of Custom SMA Allspring:

Yeah, no, absolutely, Ryan.

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Thank you for having me.

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Look forward to our conversation today.

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So in terms of just my background,

Ryan, just to set the context.

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So started off my journey in computer

science engineering, then my passion

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in mathematics and finance took me

into the world of systematic investing.

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So started my career at a place

called Barclays Global Investors back

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in the day after graduate school.

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And it was a fascinating place

for-- to kinda start as a, as, as a

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professional in systematic investing.

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It really grounded me to think about the

intersection of kinda data technology,

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investment acumen, and how do you actually

turn that into investment insights.

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So started there building kinda hedge

fund strategies in the fixed income space.

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Then kinda evolved, worked at

Goldman and a few other places.

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And my journey kinda got

me to Allspring here.

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And today I kinda lead two verticals

within Allspring the systematic

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fixed income vertical and also

co-lead the custom SMA vertical.

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In terms of Allspring itself Allspring is

a global asset manager, privately owned.

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We manage about six hundred and

twenty-five billion in assets across

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fixed income, equities, and multi-asset.

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And our kinda core mission, Ryan,

is to really be at the forefront of

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investing We have different investment

styles, fundamental and systematic, and

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we've been bringing the two together.

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We've been working with clients to

really kind of meet them where they

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are, provide solutions to them across

both institutional and the retail space.

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And our mission is to really you know,

be the best and the easiest asset

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manager to work with for our clients.

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Ryan: Yeah, Manju, that's fantastic.

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I love that you said the

easiest a- asset manager to

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Manju Boraiah: Great.

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Ryan: Important.

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And I've had the privilege of I had Noah

from Allspring on the fixed income team.

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Fantastic people you guys have on at

Allspring doing some re- I love working

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with you guys and, and great conversations

and insights, so a lot of fun.

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Manju Boraiah: That's

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Ryan: And

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Manju Boraiah: Yeah.

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Ryan: interesting you said that,

you know, systematic fixed income.

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Do you

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Manju Boraiah: Mm-hmm.

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Ryan: A lot of people when they think

of systematic investing are, you know,

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really more on the side of investing,

they focus more on equities than

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Manju Boraiah: Great.

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Ryan: Income?

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Do you come across that sometimes?

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They're like, "Oh, systematic fixed

income, we don't see that very often.

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Normally it's more on the equity side."

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Manju Boraiah: No, it is true, actually.

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I mean, I would say when people

refer to systematic, they're

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mostly talking about equities.

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I know fixed income is hard to

model systematically, right?

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Because if you think about what

the asset class represent, it's all

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about avoiding the left tail risk.

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It's all about avoiding

the, the bad stuff.

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So it has been, y-you know, interesting

in terms of evolution of systematic

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investing in fixed income, Ryan.

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It really started off,

you know, in credit.

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But back in the day when I was at BGI,

I think we were one of the two you know,

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kind of establishments working on creating

systematic strategies in fixed income.

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We covered the gamut in those days, right?

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So if you've, you know, kind of

fast-forward to today it kind of

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goes across sovereigns, FX, credit,

and, and munis as well, where you

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can apply systematic rules to turn

your investment insights into factors

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and, you know, really use those

factors to drive portfolio creation.

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But I actually think that fixed income

or even in equities, you've gotta

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have a hands-on-the-wheel approach

in systematic investing because

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no model is perfect, as you know.

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And you know, as regimes change,

models actually underperform, so

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you have to have the flexibility

and agility to kind of make changes.

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So I would say, you know, you have to

have the best autopilot, but you gotta

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have hands on the wheel all the time.

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Ryan: Yeah.

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Th- that's fantastic, Manju.

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I just can't imagine, you know, with

the fixed income space, it's huge, it's

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vast, and I feel like creating a model

based on just all the factors that go

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into fixed income, whether, you know,

inflation, the macro side, interest

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rates, just a lot more goes into it.

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I'm simplifying it here, but on

equities, you know, you focus on

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earnings and, and stuff like that.

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But,

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Manju Boraiah: Great.

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No, it's different.

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Like, I mean, if you think about I'll

just give you one example, right?

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Sovereign versus credit,

way different, right?

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So the factors that you would focus

on, you know, when you're investing

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in government bonds you know, you

have to think about the macro factors

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to your point, like, you know,

growth, inflation monetary policy.

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Obviously sentiment is kind of common,

like, you know, investor sentiment

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and how do you express it, either

momentum or cross-asset momentum.

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That, to some extent, is kind of

common across the different sectors.

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And then you go and get into valuation

space, like how do you express, you

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know, in sovereigns it's about carry

and roll down and thinking about the

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different aspects of the yield curve.

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In credit, it's different.

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It's you're really thinking about

valuation more from an issuer perspective.

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So there are all these nuances, but I

would say, you know, the approach that

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you take where you think about the return

drivers in that particular asset class,

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and then turning those return drivers

into factors, and then ultimately bringing

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them together in a multi-factor approach.

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I think that's, that's really

the, the process, right?

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Ryan: Yeah.

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Well, Manju, we'll have to

schedule another podcast

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Manju Boraiah: Yeah.

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Ryan: talk about, about that side.

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That sounds fantastic, very

interesting conversation right there.

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So get you on the podcast for that.

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Let's talk about some of the trends

you're seeing in investment management.

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Like I said at the open, there's a lot

of evolution in this space, especially

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investment management, whether it's

been driven by fee compression,

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that race to zero or technology.

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But a lot of a- lot's happening

there for financial advisors.

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And, and their, their plate's

getting bigger too, right?

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Not only is it just investment management,

they've got to worry about, you know,

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compliance, marketing, financial planning.

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What do you feel is the biggest

trend investment management?

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Manju Boraiah: I mean, I think all

the trends that you highlighted, Ryan

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are essentially unfolding as we speak.

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From a wealth management perspective,

I would say the biggest trend

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that that I'm personally seeing is

really the, the notion of outsourced

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investment management, right?

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So if you think about You know, with the

advisor you know, how their time is spent

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on a given day, they have lots to cover.

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You know, practice management is

a big portion of what they do.

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But being able to manage portfolios

for clients to drive those

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portfolios to optimal outcomes,

that's, that's a challenging role.

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And being able to navigate the, the

different macro scenarios it's not easy.

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So what we've seen is the evolution

really started a few years or decades

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ago, where parts of the portfolios were

being outsourced, obviously, through

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funds or ETFs as, as the vehicles evolved

that those wrappers have evolved as well.

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But what we have seen in the last

few years is really as customization

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and the need for tax efficiency has

taken hold, more and more advisors

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are looking to places like custom SMAs

or even active ETFs to essentially

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deliver optimal outcomes to clients

and, and also bake in tax efficiency.

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So we saw a pretty huge influx in

the last, call it like half a decade,

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where advisors started embracing custom

SMAs across both fixed income and, and

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equities, I would say active and passive.

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So that has grown.

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So taking that to the next level,

what you've seen in the recent past

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is asset allocation itself, right?

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Going beyond sleeves to the

overall portfolio, that's now

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being outsourced through models.

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So the concept of third-party models,

again, that has evolved from just pure

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off-the-shelf models to now what's

referred to as the custom models.

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The idea is bringing the best-of-breed

solutions from different managers and,

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you know, offering those kinda like

white-labeled portfolios to clients,

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and then evolving that through time.

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So I would say that that's really

what I see as the, the biggest trend

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so that, that frees up advisors

to focus on what they really--

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where they can really add value.

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Great,

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Ryan: they want

customization, they want tax

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Manju Boraiah: yeah.

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Ryan: and SMEs provide

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Manju Boraiah: No,

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Ryan: Due to the outsourcing of that

investment management piece, like you

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said, you could say manager selections

become, you know, commoditized.

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You don't, you know, financial advisors,

like you said, they don't necessarily

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have time to sit behind their desktop

and search for with the best sharp ratio

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or lower, lowest standard deviation.

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That's not where they're

getting their value from.

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How can financial advisors add

value now in this new space of

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outsourcing investment management

compared to when I started, Manju?

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You know, financial advisors added

value in their manager selection.

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"Oh, I'll provide you the best returns.

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I'll provide you with

the best investments."

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Now let's commoditize.

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How can financial advisors add value?

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Manju Boraiah: Yeah.

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Yeah, no, it's a great question, Ryan.

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I mean, I think it-- that's really

where I would say there are certain

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gaps in the industry that advisors

can really fill, in my view.

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So if you think about like,

you know, let's take financial

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planning as an example, right?

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So financial planning it's a

commoditized tool where you know,

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advisors will get their clients,

they fill out a questionnaire that

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questionnaire gets turned into a score.

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And what happens generally is that

that score gets mapped to a portfolio.

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And that portfolio is kind of

what the advisor would suggest to

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their clients that they invest in.

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Obviously, that there are

evolutions and flavors or…

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of, of this process, but the process

of taking the financial planning and

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mapping that to the portfolio, in

my view, is a critical task, right?

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That's, that's where you're mapping

the objectives, the goals, and the

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constraints of your clients to portfolios

that can be optimally structured to

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meet those goals and constraints.

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And that process is, in

my view, not trivial.

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And to me, that is really where

advisors can add a huge amount of value.

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And that's just for one account, right?

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Or one individual within a household.

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But can I extrapolate that

to the entire household?

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How do you then kind of manage the, the

different entities and the different

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individuals within the household

and create the best outcome for

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clients or for the entire household?

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So to me, going beyond financial advice

and, you know, kind of mapping that

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to portfolios and ultimately managing

the goals and the constraints across

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the entire household, that to me is a,

is a place where advisors need to step

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up and add value The other piece is,

like, really driving tax efficiency.

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So if you really think about what's

happening right now is as multi-asset

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SMA managers Allspring gets to manage

parts of different sleeves within the

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portfolio, be it fixed income or equities.

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You know, we obviously manage that

sleeve in a tax-efficient way, but

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that's just one piece of the pie, right?

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So imagine what's happening

across the entire pie.

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How do you coordinate tax outcomes

across the entire portfolio?

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To me, that is also not easy, right?

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So being able to do that across one

account and then again going beyond one

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account to the entire household, driving

tax efficiency holistically across the

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entire household is also something, in

my view advisors can add a lot of value.

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And finally, you know, organic growth,

as you know, is hard to come by be it

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asset management or wealth management.

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So managing those relationships and,

you know, preparing for, as we refer

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to as the Great Wealth Transfer, you

know, building those relationships

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with the, the spousers or the, the

children is, is a key aspect as well.

236

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So to me, you know, it goes

beyond just practice management.

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It's and also relationship management.

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It's really the aspect of managing the

entire household and, you know, driving

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the outcomes, be it tax efficiency

or customization, but doing that in a

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much more effective, scalable fashion.

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I, I think that's really where

advisors can add a lot of value.

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Ryan: Yeah, I completely agree.

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And, you know, it add-- you can add a lot

of value despite, like, tax efficiencies.

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You get more of a holistic plan when

you take into effect all the different

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accounts within the household.

246

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that can be a challenge too.

247

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Not very many households

just have one account,

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Manju Boraiah: Right.

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Yeah.

250

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Ryan: so that's a challenge.

251

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What do you think is the

biggest unsolved problem?

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Do you think that is?

253

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You, you talked a lot about,

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Manju Boraiah: Yeah.

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Ryan: know, how to provide

256

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Manju Boraiah: I,

257

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Ryan: how financial advisors can

provide value in this era when maybe

258

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investment management's commoditized.

259

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But where-- what do you think

is the biggest unsolved problem?

260

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Because there are some problems there

when you think of just time and resources.

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Manju Boraiah: the biggest problem

I see really, the way I would

262

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phrase it is really aggregation

without integration, right?

263

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So if you think about the individual

account level what's happening

264

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is, like these sleeves are getting

outsourced to managers, but being able

265

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to coordinate tax outcomes across the

entire portfolio is currently missing.

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So you're-- the advisor is aggregating

these different sleeves, but,

267

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like, how do you coordinate across

these different sleeves, and how

268

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do you deal with the best outcome?

269

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You know, within that account.

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So that's a s- that's a gap.

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But, you know, again, taking it

to the next level how do you do

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the same across multiple accounts

and entities within a household?

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That is also, in my view,

something where there's a gap,

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you know, needs to be addressed.

275

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The bigger challenge, as you know, is

the app, and especially in the RA space,

276

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as we've gone through consolidation and

there's a massive aggregation that has

277

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happened, there is definitely integration

that yet to be, you know, happening

278

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across the front, middle, and back office.

279

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So that has definitely led

to portfolio management being

280

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kind of like fragmented, right?

281

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So the different teams are

still operating as silos.

282

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The client experience

is fragmented as well.

283

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So how do you actually deliver a

holistic portfolio management or

284

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investment management and client

experience, not just within a single

285

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book, but across the entire practice?

286

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To me, that's, that's-- it's a big,

big problem for the industry, but

287

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it's also a huge opportunity, in my

view, for the industry to transform

288

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and evolve and, and get to a, a better

place from an efficiency perspective.

289

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Ryan: Yeah, that's really interesting.

290

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You talk about I love that,

aggregation without integration.

291

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And you talked about, you know,

consolidation, a lot of M&A on the,

292

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you know, fin- financial advisory

space, but there's also M&A on the

293

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inve- asset management side too.

294

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Manju Boraiah: Right.

295

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Ryan: Some management firms

integrate, you know, merging.

296

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So that

297

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to, you

298

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the problem of aggregation without

integration, which I think is really

299

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fascinating, is it for financial advisors?

300

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All right, just go with

one asset management firm.

301

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They've got equities, international,

domestic fixed income.

302

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They've got

303

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Manju Boraiah: think

304

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Ryan: whole suite of products.

305

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Manju Boraiah: there

306

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Ryan: that the solution?

307

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Just go with one asset management

firm and try and have that

308

00:18:34,850 --> 00:18:36,610

aggregation of household there?

309

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Or are there other solutions to

this aggregation without integration

310

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problem that you've discussed?

311

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Manju Boraiah: are two

aspects to this, to…

312

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You know, you, you made

a great point, right?

313

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I mean, we have seen the consolidation

happen in the asset management world as

314

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well, where the bigger become bigger.

315

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And you need scale to be able

to cater to different needs.

316

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Like, for example, at Allspring, we

have taken a more vehicle-agnostic

317

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approach to solutions, right?

318

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So we wanna meet the clients where

they are it doesn't matter if they're

319

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interested in funds or ETFs or SMAs.

320

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We wanna deliver the best solutions to

clients and meet them where they are.

321

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So to be able to do that, you

need scale, as you pointed out.

322

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You need to have those different

capabilities and the different

323

00:19:22,568 --> 00:19:27,098

flavors, and ultimately deliver

those investment you know, expertise

324

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through the vehicle that's actually

preferred by the advisors and clients.

325

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But beyond that, at the-- on the wealth

management side, I think the challenge

326

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really is Ryan, you know, how do you put

that all together on one chassis, right?

327

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So if you really think about how the

portfolios are managed especially

328

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in the RIA space these days, is you

might have the public part of the

329

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portfolio sitting on one platform.

330

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The privates might be

completely held separately.

331

00:19:55,788 --> 00:19:59,558

So that unification of publics

and privates in o- on one

332

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framework doesn't exist.

333

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The other piece is like, you

know, how do you coordinate

334

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across the different portfolios?

335

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You really need going beyond the UMA.

336

00:20:08,938 --> 00:20:12,458

You need a unified managed

household platform, right?

337

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A UMH platform that is scalable,

that can actually provide a holistic

338

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view of the entire household,

not just taxable accounts, but

339

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also the other entities, right?

340

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And then the, the kind of the integration

of the, the weaving of those different

341

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pieces together and the coordination

of that, the orchestration layer as

342

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I call it, that's really, in my view,

the biggest gap in the industry, right?

343

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If you can solve for that, then, you

know, you can then embrace a total

344

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portfolio approach on one chassis

where you can actually manage publics,

345

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privates on the same platform.

346

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Then you can evolve the portfolio as the

client's needs change, and then deliver

347

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customization and tax efficiency at scale.

348

00:20:57,505 --> 00:21:01,185

Ryan: Yeah, that makes a lot of

sense, Manju, because it goes

349

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along with the holistic planning.

350

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There should be holistic planning

on the investment management

351

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side too, so you know that you're

getting the best tax efficiencies.

352

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Manju Boraiah: Mm-hmm.

353

00:21:10,298 --> 00:21:15,875

Ryan: Maybe there's not a bunch of overlap

and You're not overly concentrated in

354

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tech or something like that, right?

355

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Where you've got the full

holistic picture there.

356

00:21:22,145 --> 00:21:24,045

You talked about separately

managed accounts.

357

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A lot of people went from separately

managed accounts to unified managed

358

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accounts to kind of bring all

those separate accounts together

359

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Manju Boraiah: Yeah.

360

00:21:33,410 --> 00:21:37,910

Ryan: Is that a solution here or is

there something even better or, you

361

00:21:37,910 --> 00:21:42,580

know, maybe more comprehensive and

holistic than the UMA structure?

362

00:21:43,438 --> 00:21:45,088

Manju Boraiah: The UMA structure is great.

363

00:21:45,128 --> 00:21:50,178

I think what, what you really need to

do is going beyond UMA to UMH, right?

364

00:21:50,178 --> 00:21:55,638

So the unified managed household to me

is an extension of an UMA's structure.

365

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Now, UMA is great.

366

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It solves for, to your point,

like, you know, how do you

367

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bring in the different sleeves?

368

00:22:00,078 --> 00:22:02,848

How do you kind of coordinate

across the different sleeves?

369

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Now, not all UMA solutions are created

equal because there are certain UMA

370

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solutions, as you know are name only, but

they don't really do what they need to do.

371

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But the UMH is theoretically

a great concept, right?

372

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So bas- basically, you have a UMA

construct but extends beyond one

373

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account to the entire household.

374

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You can onboard the different

entities, you know, be it like

375

00:22:26,178 --> 00:22:30,188

taxable accounts, retirement accounts,

trusts, you know, public and privates

376

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all sitting side by side, and then

orchestration of these different

377

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sleeves happening on one chassis.

378

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But to me, that is harder to

actually implement, right?

379

00:22:41,938 --> 00:22:44,758

Because if you think about h-

what are the different pieces

380

00:22:44,758 --> 00:22:46,988

for UMH to actually be scalable.

381

00:22:47,348 --> 00:22:51,658

So you need a framework that can

actually house these different entities,

382

00:22:51,798 --> 00:22:54,058

public, privates on the same platform.

383

00:22:54,408 --> 00:23:00,148

You need a data and a risk framework

or architecture that can actually

384

00:23:00,148 --> 00:23:04,570

provide a holistic risk view for your

privates and public on the same platform

385

00:23:04,870 --> 00:23:04,900

Ryan: I

386

00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,378

Manju Boraiah: or the different

vehicles on the same platform.

387

00:23:07,768 --> 00:23:12,678

You need a tax-aware optimization kind

of engine that sits alongside these

388

00:23:12,678 --> 00:23:16,258

things that can optimize different

sleeves in the entire portfolio or

389

00:23:16,258 --> 00:23:19,008

the entire household for tax outcomes.

390

00:23:19,388 --> 00:23:24,408

And finally, I think the biggest missing

piece is the orchestration layer.

391

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How do you stitch this all

together and do this at scale?

392

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So the individual pieces exist, right?

393

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And they're also kind of like bare bones,

I would say, like, you know, early f-

394

00:23:35,878 --> 00:23:38,558

you know, phase UMH platforms out there.

395

00:23:38,958 --> 00:23:43,028

But to actually do this at scale,

I, I think to me, that's really

396

00:23:43,028 --> 00:23:44,428

where the industry is heading.

397

00:23:44,798 --> 00:23:49,828

I haven't seen a platform that can do all

of these things at scale yet, but I know

398

00:23:49,828 --> 00:23:51,738

different folks are working towards it.

399

00:23:52,088 --> 00:23:54,498

But that to me is the Holy Grail, right?

400

00:23:54,498 --> 00:23:56,258

I think that's really where

the industry is heading.

401

00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,500

Ryan: was just gonna ask why you were

explaining the unified managed household

402

00:24:02,500 --> 00:24:05,400

structure and, and the benefits of it.

403

00:24:05,460 --> 00:24:07,880

I was gonna just ask you,

like, how do you do it?

404

00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,030

It sounds complicated, but most

importantly, how do you do it at scale?

405

00:24:11,030 --> 00:24:12,680

I think you just answered that question.

406

00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,380

Like, it, it's has not been done yet.

407

00:24:15,380 --> 00:24:19,970

Is that true or are we close so

financial advisors can leverage it?

408

00:24:20,853 --> 00:24:23,893

Manju Boraiah: Yeah, I think there are

structures out there, Rand, which come

409

00:24:23,893 --> 00:24:28,723

close, but I think the biggest gap in

my view is I think the, again, bringing

410

00:24:28,723 --> 00:24:31,893

the publics and the privates together,

and not just the publics and the

411

00:24:31,893 --> 00:24:34,753

privates, but also the different pieces.

412

00:24:34,753 --> 00:24:38,973

Like, you know, how do you have a

portfolio that can house mutual funds,

413

00:24:38,973 --> 00:24:45,233

ETFs, SMAs, privates on the same

platform, and being able to manage

414

00:24:45,233 --> 00:24:49,403

the tax efficiency across them, being

able to manage cash and liquidity

415

00:24:49,403 --> 00:24:50,953

across these different sleeves.

416

00:24:51,363 --> 00:24:53,853

That to me is still missing.

417

00:24:54,183 --> 00:24:56,873

I know there are providers out

there that are close to the

418

00:24:56,873 --> 00:24:58,643

finish line, but not there yet.

419

00:24:58,813 --> 00:24:59,953

But we're getting there.

420

00:24:59,953 --> 00:25:05,743

I, I do feel that that would be the, the

ideal solution for advisors to embrace.

421

00:25:06,530 --> 00:25:06,630

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

422

00:25:07,490 --> 00:25:10,510

I would-- I'm assuming technology

plays a big role in that.

423

00:25:10,510 --> 00:25:16,760

Maybe AI, I'm assuming it, it

could evolve very quickly with AI.

424

00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,870

Is that where it's kinda heading

towards in order to implement

425

00:25:19,870 --> 00:25:21,910

it, is AI and leveraging that?

426

00:25:22,673 --> 00:25:23,113

Manju Boraiah: Yeah.

427

00:25:23,113 --> 00:25:25,273

No, I think AI is a great enabler, right?

428

00:25:25,303 --> 00:25:27,723

AI, in my view, would play a huge role.

429

00:25:28,083 --> 00:25:31,573

I tend to think about AI adoption

in different levels, right?

430

00:25:31,573 --> 00:25:35,373

So there are, in my view, at

least five different levels.

431

00:25:35,373 --> 00:25:40,043

So level one is really the easiest in

my view, where, you know, if you're

432

00:25:40,043 --> 00:25:45,533

an advisor and using the AI-enabled

tools for note-taking or e-drafting

433

00:25:45,533 --> 00:25:49,543

emails, it's really a productive

productivity enhancement tool, right?

434

00:25:49,863 --> 00:25:53,303

Level two is where it gets a bit more

interesting, where you really think

435

00:25:53,303 --> 00:25:58,003

about- You know, information retrieval

or research syn-synthesis tool, right?

436

00:25:58,363 --> 00:26:00,383

And we do that all the time.

437

00:26:00,443 --> 00:26:03,663

You know, you have a document, you

wanna extract information from it, or

438

00:26:03,663 --> 00:26:08,313

you have a whole, you know, trove of

documents you need to kind of combine

439

00:26:08,343 --> 00:26:10,063

information across these different things.

440

00:26:10,483 --> 00:26:11,653

So that's happening as well.

441

00:26:11,723 --> 00:26:14,743

You know, I know advisors and,

you know, professionals are

442

00:26:14,743 --> 00:26:16,693

using it across the board.

443

00:26:17,013 --> 00:26:21,053

Third level starts getting a bit more

interesting, where you go from just

444

00:26:21,053 --> 00:26:25,653

information retrieval to more like

a, a decision support system, right?

445

00:26:25,653 --> 00:26:30,093

So it's like a co-pilot where, you know,

working hand, hand in hand with a human

446

00:26:30,093 --> 00:26:31,923

expert to actually do things, right?

447

00:26:31,923 --> 00:26:36,503

You know, I wanna generate a new trade

idea, or I wanna do a certain task where

448

00:26:36,503 --> 00:26:41,073

the AI is actually making investment

decisions or decisions in general.

449

00:26:41,503 --> 00:26:44,923

And, and that to me is where

the industry mostly is, right?

450

00:26:44,923 --> 00:26:46,083

So these three levels.

451

00:26:46,463 --> 00:26:50,623

The fourth level is where you can

start orchestrating workflows.

452

00:26:50,623 --> 00:26:54,813

So the workflow orchestration using

AI, where you're stitching together

453

00:26:54,873 --> 00:26:59,993

different things and making decisions,

that is really where you can start

454

00:26:59,993 --> 00:27:02,323

leveraging AI to do meaningful things.

455

00:27:02,683 --> 00:27:06,453

And then the last level, which

is like the, the god mode, right?

456

00:27:06,453 --> 00:27:10,693

Which is the agentic you know,

systems where, you know, AI--

457

00:27:10,723 --> 00:27:14,833

where you're actually building,

learning and adapting dynamically.

458

00:27:14,973 --> 00:27:16,773

That is harder to achieve.

459

00:27:16,873 --> 00:27:20,363

There are very few firms that

are AI native that are actually

460

00:27:20,363 --> 00:27:21,503

heading in that direction.

461

00:27:21,913 --> 00:27:25,913

But level four and level five

is what really unlocks the true

462

00:27:26,283 --> 00:27:28,003

advantage of AI, in my view.

463

00:27:29,130 --> 00:27:29,360

Ryan: Yeah.

464

00:27:30,010 --> 00:27:33,950

Manju, and I'm sure with their background

in computer science and then also

465

00:27:33,950 --> 00:27:39,210

systematic investing, you have a good

grasp on AI and technology, so it's

466

00:27:39,210 --> 00:27:41,353

always great to get your insight there.

467

00:27:41,653 --> 00:27:53,593

Manju Boraiah: Mm-hmm.

468

00:27:53,893 --> 00:27:54,510

Ryan: of AI.

469

00:27:54,510 --> 00:28:00,160

Like you said, they're probably at level

one, two using chatbots and stuff like

470

00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,940

that versus more the decision-making.

471

00:28:02,940 --> 00:28:05,280

Do you think they're kind of

missing an opportunity there?

472

00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,390

Or maybe they're just a little

apprehensive because of compliance

473

00:28:09,390 --> 00:28:11,810

and stuff to really get to level five?

474

00:28:12,878 --> 00:28:13,108

Manju Boraiah: Yeah.

475

00:28:13,108 --> 00:28:16,148

So level five is, is

harder for sure, Ryan.

476

00:28:16,148 --> 00:28:19,768

But level four, in my view, where

you're orchestrating workflows,

477

00:28:20,068 --> 00:28:24,808

and to me, that is a key input to

solving what we discussed earlier,

478

00:28:25,238 --> 00:28:26,918

aggregation without integration, right?

479

00:28:26,918 --> 00:28:30,618

That integration piece where you're

trying to bring different practices

480

00:28:30,618 --> 00:28:34,668

together, different investment

processes, and different, you

481

00:28:34,668 --> 00:28:38,758

know, kind of like workflows you

might have in an organization under

482

00:28:38,758 --> 00:28:40,718

one kind of cohesive umbrella.

483

00:28:41,058 --> 00:28:44,648

That is where I think wealth

management and even asset

484

00:28:44,648 --> 00:28:48,238

management should be embracing AI

and kind of taking that next step.

485

00:28:48,698 --> 00:28:52,028

And it's harder for an

individual advisor to do, right?

486

00:28:52,028 --> 00:28:55,988

I mean because you do require different

skill sets to kinda get there.

487

00:28:56,358 --> 00:28:59,568

Because, you know, all of us do

wipe coding and all we can build,

488

00:28:59,938 --> 00:29:01,468

you know, applications on the fly.

489

00:29:01,908 --> 00:29:06,268

But just integrating something that

you've built with the broader workflow

490

00:29:06,808 --> 00:29:10,968

and, and kind of testing the end-to-end

and making it really work is not easy.

491

00:29:11,388 --> 00:29:15,098

But my view is like the home

offices should really embrace this.

492

00:29:15,148 --> 00:29:18,658

I think this is really more for

the home offices to help integrate

493

00:29:18,658 --> 00:29:22,878

the front, middle, and back office

so that it makes the, the overall

494

00:29:23,028 --> 00:29:24,998

process for advisors more easy.

495

00:29:24,998 --> 00:29:25,058

Yeah.

496

00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:27,120

Ryan: Yeah.

497

00:29:27,250 --> 00:29:30,480

Manju, that's a perfect way of

wrapping up this conversation

498

00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:31,540

because you're exactly right.

499

00:29:31,540 --> 00:29:35,830

With AI, a lot of what you just

talked about that, you know, unified

500

00:29:36,230 --> 00:29:40,690

managed households becomes a lot

easier, and at the end of the day,

501

00:29:40,690 --> 00:29:45,940

it benefits the end investor, the

end client because then they can have

502

00:29:45,940 --> 00:29:50,390

more of a holistic approach to their

investment management tax efficiencies.

503

00:29:50,390 --> 00:29:55,470

Like you said, maybe more diversification,

a better understanding of exactly all

504

00:29:55,470 --> 00:29:57,240

their investments across the board.

505

00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,230

So important and a lot to come there.

506

00:30:00,380 --> 00:30:01,960

A lot to come, Manju.

507

00:30:04,370 --> 00:30:04,760

Wow.

508

00:30:04,980 --> 00:30:07,660

Thank you so much, Manju,

for coming on the show.

509

00:30:07,690 --> 00:30:09,850

Really fun conversation.

510

00:30:09,850 --> 00:30:12,860

You brought a ton of great

insight, a lot of information.

511

00:30:13,110 --> 00:30:18,240

Like I said earlier, really like

this topic due to our, you know, my

512

00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,270

interests, and I really feel that

separately managed accounts are a great

513

00:30:22,270 --> 00:30:28,710

vehicle for investors and for financial

advisors to help with their investment

514

00:30:28,710 --> 00:30:30,900

management portion of their business.

515

00:30:30,900 --> 00:30:32,330

So thank you so much.

516

00:30:32,420 --> 00:30:33,790

Really fun conversation.

517

00:30:34,170 --> 00:30:37,690

Where can our listeners get more

information about Allspring?

518

00:30:38,658 --> 00:30:39,338

Manju Boraiah: No, definitely.

519

00:30:39,338 --> 00:30:40,538

And, and thank you so much, Ryan.

520

00:30:40,538 --> 00:30:41,968

Really enjoyed this conversation.

521

00:30:41,968 --> 00:30:46,508

And in terms of Allspring, you know

advisors can go to allspringglobal.com

522

00:30:46,908 --> 00:30:48,888

or please follow us on LinkedIn.

523

00:30:49,198 --> 00:30:53,038

And I'm sure you know there's a

friendly Allspring representative in

524

00:30:53,038 --> 00:30:55,878

your territory if you're interested

to learn more about our products.

525

00:30:56,288 --> 00:30:57,618

But thank you so much for having me.

526

00:30:57,618 --> 00:31:01,328

It was a great conversation, Ryan, and,

If you're ever in the San Francisco

527

00:31:01,328 --> 00:31:04,428

Bay Area you know, ping me and we

can catch up for a cup of coffee.

528

00:31:05,329 --> 00:31:08,479

Ryan: Well, Manju, I'm just up

the road, up in the mountains

529

00:31:08,907 --> 00:31:09,177

Manju Boraiah: Great.

530

00:31:09,269 --> 00:31:11,679

Ryan: San Francisco, so not far.

531

00:31:12,377 --> 00:31:12,637

Manju Boraiah: Oh.

532

00:31:12,769 --> 00:31:13,949

Ryan: Careful what you wish for.

533

00:31:13,949 --> 00:31:16,989

I might come down for a Giants game

and I may knocking on your door,

534

00:31:17,098 --> 00:31:18,468

Manju Boraiah: Oh, yeah, please do.

535

00:31:18,548 --> 00:31:21,678

And yeah, no, it'll, it'll-- it's

always fun to catch up in person.

536

00:31:22,039 --> 00:31:23,389

Ryan: Yeah, exactly.

537

00:31:23,719 --> 00:31:24,519

Awesome, Manju.

538

00:31:24,769 --> 00:31:28,609

Thank you so much, and thank you

everyone for listening to this episode

539

00:31:28,609 --> 00:31:31,159

of Zephyr's Adjust It For Risk podcast.

540

00:31:31,159 --> 00:31:34,579

You can watch all of our other

episodes on the Zephyr YouTube channel

541

00:31:34,909 --> 00:31:38,459

and all the other platforms where

you catch your favorite podcasts.

542

00:31:38,749 --> 00:31:41,479

Please be sure to like and

subscribe to those channels and

543

00:31:41,479 --> 00:31:42,899

give us a follow on LinkedIn.

544

00:31:43,289 --> 00:31:45,879

Thank you very much and have

a great rest of your week.

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