We discuss the newest Knives Out mystery in a new Home Box Office Drop! Directed, and written by Rian Johnson, the newest entry in the Knives Out franchise of course features Daniel Crain returning as Benoit Blanc, alongside Josh O'Connor, Josh Brolin, Glenn Close, Kerry Washington, Cailey Spaeny, Thomas Hayden Church, Daryl McCormack, Jeremy Renner, and Mila Kunis.

In this episode we talk about Marx's theory on alienation under capitalism (a favorite topic of late), the marriage between the western Christian church and capitalism, the slow burn that is Knives Out, and how Benoit Blanc falls outside of the police and capital partnership and is thus excluded from the fact that ALL cops are in fact bastards.

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Track 1: Hello, and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Evan,

Track 1: back again with another film discussion from the left.

Track 1: If you'd like to support the show for as little as $3 a month,

Track 1: you can go to patreon.com forward slash left of the projector pod.

Track 1: If you'd like to dress in the style, we've got shirts.

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Track 1: show everyone you've got the best taste around.

Track 1: Wherever you're listening, give us a rating and subscribe so you'll be notified

Track 1: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday. And now on to the show.

Track 1: This week on the show, we bring you a film hot off the streaming press because it's Netflix.

Track 1: And while they did release this film in theaters, it was a short release period.

Track 1: So most of the folks out there probably got to see this streaming only.

Track 1: The film in question is the third in a trilogy, although there's supposed to

Track 1: be more. So is it a trilogy? I don't know. Three so far.

Track 1: But the film we're talking about today is Wake Up Dead Man.

Track 1: this is of course directed by ryan johnson follows

Track 1: detective benoit blanc played of course by daniel craig who has now reprised

Track 1: his role in all three films it also stars a bunch of people josh o'connor glenn

Track 1: close josh brolin mila kunis jeremy renner among many others and i'm joined

Track 1: per usual by bill and ward how you guys doing tonight.

Track 2: How you doing i'm pretty good.

Track 1: I didn't mention how much this made in the box office because i don't think it made much,

Track 1: This film cost $151.7 million to make, which is kind of shocking to me.

Track 1: It seems like they could have made it for less.

Track 1: The first movie, by comparison, was $40 million.

Track 2: I mean, with this cast, these kind of casts, they're always going to be,

Track 2: it's always going to be an inflated budget.

Track 1: Yeah.

Track 2: Just the casts.

Track 1: All their salaries.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 3: Yeah, I was about to say. It felt like cast, if you ask me.

Track 2: I mean, there's no special effects. I mean, there's no real effects.

Track 2: there's no it's it's all cast.

Track 3: Yeah very few effects those aren't bumping the budget up crazy.

Track 1: Yeah who who the hell knows where that money goes like netflix owns this shit

Track 1: who knows what that budget goes to i.

Track 2: Mean that too.

Track 1: Maybe that includes marketing because netflix doesn't usually release their

Track 1: information about how much they market a film yeah.

Track 3: Like maybe i mean it was only in theaters for like two weeks.

Track 1: Yeah which actually they had originally told ryan johnson that it was going

Track 1: to be in the theater longer, and they basically decided not to do that,

Track 1: and they would only give it like a token release just so that it could be up

Track 1: for Oscars, essentially.

Track 3: And he was really pissed about it. Corporation lying and being a piece of shit?

Track 1: Not Netflix.

Track 3: Never.

Track 1: They're known as a very...

Track 2: It's funny that, you know, like, we're talking about this movie now,

Track 2: and it's like all of this is so tangential to the Netflix, Warner Brothers,

Track 2: Paramount, like, the whole buyout thing.

Track 2: And, you know, it's just the conglomeration of things and how, like, I don't know.

Track 2: If I was going to choose a company to buy another, like, you know,

Track 2: film company, like, Netflix would not be the one.

Track 2: Like just for if no other reason, like it's so opaque.

Track 2: What Netflix is a black box of production and like,

Track 2: just as a person that likes to know things, but like, but also like as a person

Track 2: who like enjoys film and wants to like note like movies, enjoys movies, not film.

Track 2: I've never used that word on ironically in my life.

Track 2: But it's a person who enjoys movies and stuff. I want to know things.

Track 2: I want to know where the fuck these decisions come from. I want to know the budget stuff.

Track 2: And I want to know how are they basing any of this? What are they basing it on?

Track 2: What do they base any of this on? It blows my mind. I just don't get it.

Track 1: And I was wrong. They paid $469 million for the Knives Out franchise.

Track 3: Oh, man, you said $250 million. That's a fucking lowball.

Track 2: That's a huge bump.

Track 3: These are banger whodunits. You're going to tell me $250? No.

Track 2: But, I mean, to be fair, at the same time, we can all admit that there are movies

Track 2: that lend themselves to a theater experience. Correct?

Track 3: Yes.

Track 2: Do we think a whodunit – does anyone here think that a whodunit is a requisite

Track 2: theater-going experience?

Track 3: Nah.

Track 1: No.

Track 2: Like, I'm not trying to, like, slight it, but, like, they're not – these are

Track 2: the kinds of movies, honestly, they're best enjoyed at home with,

Track 2: like, one or two other people that you can talk to, like, ooh,

Track 2: you know, like, what do you think?

Track 2: You know, like, oh, did you see that? Oh, who do you think it was?

Track 2: you know like there really are like they're better suited for home view yeah.

Track 1: I saw the first.

Track 3: One in.

Track 2: The theater so did we my wife.

Track 3: I want to slide it a little bit because i mean when you

Track 3: came when we did our introductions and you came out with your

Track 3: fucking hot take of there should be no more movies i gave it a little bit time

Track 3: and i said that i would come up with a hot take and i was thinking you know

Track 3: what i agree with that but the exception should be the knives out movies and

Track 3: then i recently remembered oh fuck they're owned by netflix so maybe i don't

Track 3: want to double down on that decision i.

Track 2: Mean like i love the knives out movies i absolutely love them my wife and i

Track 2: saw we saw the first one of the theaters and it was i i didn't you know like

Track 2: we didn't like when you saw the first one like it wasn't known like oh this

Track 2: is gonna be a thing but it's like honestly like in a universe of movies being made,

Track 2: in our current situation which everything is so boring

Track 2: and like just like re like reboots and

Track 2: sequels to stuff that's been done to

Track 2: death and just like slop like it's just slop this is a franchise that stands

Track 2: out as engaging and well done and thought-provoking and and actual like and

Track 2: I will say this unironically, film.

Track 1: Well, like there's a reason that Agatha DeChristi's books and subsequent film

Track 1: adaptations are like among the highest sold and made in the history of the world.

Track 1: You know, like I think she's the third best-selling author of all time.

Track 1: Maybe the only one above her is Shakespeare, I would imagine.

Track 1: You know, and like these are estimates because they can't always know the exact.

Track 1: So this is the kind of movie that people have loved and wanted to see and ryan

Track 1: johnson makes them really really well i mean for me the first one is still my

Track 1: favorite this is probably my second favorite and then glass onion is my third

Track 1: favorite but even as like the third favorite there's it's still a good movie

Track 1: that movie was a little bit too,

Track 1: which i did an episode on it was a little too much of the you know rich kind

Track 1: i don't know it felt like very i don't know go listen to the episode you can hear us complain.

Track 3: About,

Track 3: yeah i really enjoyed this one like i thought it wasn't gonna be as good and

Track 3: then i got into it like i knew it was gonna be good but i didn't think it was

Track 3: gonna hold up to like the first or second but i was like oh shit i actually

Track 3: like this one a lot more than the second one yeah.

Track 1: I and there's like yeah.

Track 2: I feel like this one,

Track 2: This one starts a little slower, but once you're like in, like,

Track 2: I think it helps that like, I do think the main character, Judd,

Track 2: Pastor Judd, Priest Judd.

Track 2: Okay. How are these Catholics having children?

Track 3: Father Judd?

Track 2: Anyway. Yeah. Father Judd.

Track 3: Oh, they'd just be doing that.

Track 2: Halfway through the movie, I turned around. I was like, how are these Catholics?

Track 2: Why are these Catholics having Catholic priests having kids?

Track 2: Are they Catholic? And then I'm like, you know, they're Catholics.

Track 2: Why are they all having fucking kids? What's going on here?

Track 3: So that's like a thing that's historically happened.

Track 2: Yeah, but listen, I grew up in New Jersey, okay, which is for those Americans.

Track 3: Oh, that makes sense. You grew up with buddy Christ. You're not used to this kind of stuff.

Track 2: For those of you who don't, for listeners who didn't grow up in New Jersey or

Track 2: New York City area, where like the rest of the country is like largely Protestant.

Track 2: We're like Catholics all the way here. um and for me when i grew up i didn't

Track 2: i was like everyone's catholic right that's like what people are catholic the

Track 2: catholics that's those are the options it's it's you're catholic doesn't.

Track 3: Everyone have father.

Track 2: Carlin you're catholic or you're jewish those are the options in new jersey

Track 2: that's like when i grow up that's that's what it was like you're a catholic

Track 2: or you're jewish that was the option um and i'm like no no ward they didn't

Track 2: have kids no they didn't that wasn't a thing,

Track 2: It was like, that was like the thing you knew. They didn't have kids.

Track 2: I think they talk about that.

Track 3: But people got secrets.

Track 2: I think he might've been like, yeah, yeah. They're all the same.

Track 2: Protestants, they get married.

Track 2: Pastors get married. They have kids. I really think he might've like,

Track 2: I don't know. I think he might've missed a detail or something.

Track 2: Anyway, I do think that Father Judd is a more,

Track 2: he was a more engaging character than the

Track 2: uh main character in and we had a more like immediate connection he was presented

Track 2: as a more immediate connection than in the second movie because the way the

Track 2: second movie is the structure of the second movie just didn't lend itself to that in the same way.

Track 3: Yeah i like how you said like i mean slow burn i mean benoit

Track 3: blanc doesn't walk in until fucking 40 minutes in like

Track 3: it's fantastic intro too by the way um but

Track 3: yeah no father judd like yeah just such an engaging

Track 3: character because i mean like you get like the liberal idealized version of

Track 3: like what everybody hopes of a religious figure you know you get that but also

Track 3: like he also gives very just real reactions that the audience would be giving

Track 3: in those moments too and that just builds that uh relatability yeah.

Track 1: And for those for like this is like a very brief sort of sketching of the plot

Track 1: is like josh o'connor plays a judge as pastor and he's essentially given or

Track 1: sent to this town in upstate new york to.

Track 3: Be sent what he said he's exiled.

Track 1: Yeah exiled yes he.

Track 3: Also broke another priest's jaw yeah but.

Track 1: To be fair they like they're like yeah you he deserved to have his jaw broken.

Track 3: So funny it's so funny and everyone knows he was sent out.

Track 1: There and he's essentially now going to become uh josh brolin who's the monsaint my,

Track 1: How do I pronounce it? Monsignor. Monsignor.

Track 3: Monsignor.

Track 1: Monsignor. Monsignor of this other church. And immediately when he gets there,

Track 1: Josh Brolin, like, doesn't want him there.

Track 1: You're kind of, just like with the other films, you're sort of introduced to

Track 1: other characters sort of in this kind of playful way.

Track 1: You get sort of like the caretaker. And it's really what it's doing is unlocking

Track 1: all the potential murder suspect later on.

Track 1: You're like, oh, there's the caretaker. And then there's the sort of the main

Track 1: woman who works there. and this case is played by Glenn Close,

Track 1: who is awesome in this movie, by the way. So good.

Track 1: And you then are introduced to sort of the wealthier parishioners who are sort

Track 1: of the key characters that are sort of like the circle within,

Track 1: you know, Josh Brolin in it.

Track 1: And it's sort of the first 50, 40 minutes or so, again, you don't have Benoit Blanc there yet.

Track 1: And another great thing that I noticed in This is an IMDb was when he's sort

Track 1: of writing the story and sort of narrating the first 50 minutes,

Track 1: the moment when he says he's been writing for an hour was actually at the 60-minute

Track 1: mark of the movie, which I thought was a nice little touch that Johnson likes to do.

Track 1: So that's basically what kind of unfolds.

Track 1: You see that Josh Brolin as a priest is extremely, what would be the word I'd use?

Track 2: Militant.

Track 1: Militant gruff a dick he's.

Track 2: Very much a fire and brimstone oh yeah.

Track 1: Yeah also great in this movie I mean Josh Brolin usually does bring it in everything

Track 1: but he's very believable yeah.

Track 3: In a future episode maybe I'll talk shit about Josh Brolin.

Track 1: Yeah,

Track 1: Which one?

Track 3: Hint, hint. I don't tell people. You'd have to be surprised.

Track 1: Okay.

Track 3: You got to keep the listeners coming back.

Track 2: Yeah. People want to come back to hear who Ward's going to talk shit about.

Track 3: Well, it's Josh Brolin, but they got to come and figure out the circumstances and context, you know?

Track 1: Because of Glass Onion feeling very much like the sort of MAGA or like Republican

Track 1: versus liberal, there was a few moments in the first, I don't know,

Track 1: like 45 minutes or so where I felt like that's where this was going.

Track 1: where josh brolin is sort of talking shit about like woke and all this kind

Track 1: of thing and he's just going to be sort of this right-wing person and then you

Track 1: kind of have the judd as sort of like the liberal you know more open-minded

Track 1: person but i was surprised to find that it didn't really take that path i don't

Track 1: know if you thought it did at all.

Track 3: Or yeah no i had that feeling as well like where i was like oh it's going to

Track 3: go down like glass onion whereas like this is going to be a reoccurring theme

Track 3: throughout the whole thing but it yeah no it definitely splits off from that

Track 3: it just it goes that route to establish characters and then it's like cool you

Track 3: got it's know who the characters are let's get on with the story yeah.

Track 2: It's really more i mean.

Track 3: Which is great the.

Track 2: Only the only person i mean the only person whose character like continues on

Track 2: that is Cy Draven, Kerry Washington, Vera Draven's supposed brother.

Track 2: I'm sorry, no.

Track 3: He's supposed illegitimate brother.

Track 2: Yeah. Presented originally as son before it is revealed that he's actually her brother.

Track 3: Monsignor Wick's son.

Track 2: Which is fucked up.

Track 3: Yeah, crazy.

Track 2: Vera Draven's story is sad. Her story is definitely the saddest.

Track 2: um so sad yeah um size story he's a real piece of shit god he's a piece of shit

Track 2: anybody else think that does anybody else think that he looks like uh zachary levi oh.

Track 1: No that's that's actually a really mean thing to say,

Track 1: I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

Track 2: I don't know why he looks like Zachary Levi to me, which really kind of like

Track 2: drove it home because like Zachary Levi turned out to be a fucking MAGA lunatic.

Track 1: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I mean, a little, a little bit, I'd say, yeah,

Track 1: I'm just saying like, it's, it's unfortunate in comparison to.

Track 2: Yeah. I mean, you know, these things, you know, it's, it's unfortunate,

Track 2: but you know, we can't, you know, I'm not, listen, Zachary Levi's opinions have

Track 2: no bearing on his physical appearance.

Track 2: no no no no um it's

Track 2: just a funny irony um yeah other

Track 2: than cy draven none of the characters really continue

Track 2: down that route but i think

Track 2: it's actually like an important aspect of the movie that he does and that we

Track 2: keep coming back to the intertwined nature of christophascism and the Because

Track 2: really what this movie is not about MAGA versus liberal,

Track 2: it is about power and the pursuit of power and control.

Track 2: And that's really what it's about. And how Christianity in the United States,

Track 2: Christofascism has been so tied to the capitalist system and how it is,

Track 2: the two go hand in hand and they're integrally linked.

Track 1: And yeah yeah i mean i think it definitely hits on that christo fascism thing but it also,

Track 1: goes i think similar to the first film the first knives out one where you kind of have,

Track 1: you don't get maybe as deep character development as you do in this one which

Track 1: is what made it so much better it was a little bit longer they had more time

Track 1: but you also have a lot of this idea around sort of the dogma in religion.

Track 1: And I mean, again, I say this not as a Christian or even really a religious

Track 1: person at all, but there's lots of these aspects that they tried to drill into

Track 1: of, you know, can you be, like, can't someone be saved? Like,

Track 1: even if you're in this...

Track 1: You get dragged into this sort of, uh, Christian, you know, grim and doomstone

Track 1: and gloom and whatever sort of church.

Track 1: Can you still actually find salvation? Like, you know, you have the,

Track 1: what's the, the girl's name who played by Kaylee Spaney, Simone.

Track 1: Yeah. I think that's her name. She, who also is in one of our favorites, uh, the, yes.

Track 1: But in this, she plays a celloist who like has an injury and can't play.

Track 1: anymore and is like throwing her money at

Track 1: josh brolin to try and like heal her because she's sort of been convinced into

Track 1: this idea and then you know in the end as a spoiler she sort of becomes he can't

Track 1: help her but she's able to help herself through sort of this personal salvation

Track 1: and faith and all these things so i don't know exactly what i'm trying to say other than that just,

Track 1: people getting sucked into these religious cults and then realizing that the

Track 1: only way to actually make change is through you know connecting with your fellow

Track 1: people in like a normal way yeah.

Track 2: She was the most i felt she was the most interesting character in terms of her

Track 2: relationship with the church it was purely transactional in a lot of ways but

Track 2: at the same time she was the least like.

Track 1: She wasn't a bad person really she.

Track 2: Was the most genuine

Track 2: in the end and the one person who seemed

Track 2: to be the most like you know willing to like you know come to terms with like

Track 2: actual like you know the reality of things and like accept things for what it

Track 2: is and like you know be you know come to terms with things she was outside of,

Track 2: uh the groundskeeper who actually was the least like i felt bad for his character yeah.

Track 3: He was good he was actually a pretty good guy yeah.

Track 1: And like the one too like glenn close's character who's sort of like the caretaker

Track 1: of the church and does all the organizing sort of you know within.

Track 3: It i clocked her from being a dick from the minute like jump

Track 3: street i had it in my fucking notes like early on like from the first flashback

Track 3: scene i was like that's definitely not what she said to that lady that's not

Track 3: what she said that is not what she said at all no like i was like i don't know

Track 3: if i'll find out what she said but that's not what she said yeah.

Track 1: Oh the little when she tells the story of you know how.

Track 3: The the woman.

Track 1: Died the previous yeah that didn't seem but like in some ways like with her

Track 1: character is she doesn't really change as a person for the most part.

Track 1: And, you know, her only decision to sort of show and admit to what she does

Track 1: is, you know, her commitment to the church and her faith, but she's pretty terrible person too.

Track 3: I mean, even then at the very end, she's still in a form of denial where she

Track 3: was like, I was the good one. I was the faithful one.

Track 3: It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Those aren't the same thing.

Track 2: Yeah, she is very much presented as the symbolic representation of the way people

Track 2: use religion as a means of justifying their actions,

Track 2: but also filling a hole within themselves and then giving themselves permission

Track 2: to do things because it serves some other purpose.

Track 2: which they have also perverted to fit their own narrative, you know,

Track 2: in the end, like it's, it's an Ouroboros of justification and, you know,

Track 2: faith and the two things, like they just constantly feed each other until it

Track 2: becomes this monster that can be used to justify anything.

Track 2: Because in the end, the only justification, the only thing you're actually seeking

Track 2: is validation for your own selfish desires.

Track 1: Do you think that's the same case with Josh Brolin as the main priest is that

Track 1: he justifies everything he's doing?

Track 1: for the church but he's also doing it simply because he wants the the money

Track 1: sort of the the buried treasure if you will that was sort of he never was able to get.

Track 3: I think in the beginning i think

Track 3: it's like when we get

Track 3: his first confession and it's like oh it's his first punch and

Track 3: he's all talking about masturbating and all that shit like yeah

Track 3: that reveals gets revealed to be a lie but

Track 3: i think he's honest when he was like i was

Track 3: envious of other people's powers i saw my grandfather's power as a priest and

Track 3: i envied that yeah and i think he was being truthful when he said that one yeah

Track 3: i think like yeah the lexus who gives a fuck masturbating yeah he's lying um

Track 3: but that one like that one was truthful and it shows in his character because.

Track 2: That the The fact that he, in the end, when presented with the opportunity to

Track 2: have that money, that's still power.

Track 2: That's what that is. And that power, and the ability to get that,

Track 2: was served up to him by Cy, hand in hand with political power.

Track 2: That was his entire goal. He wanted to be a demagogue.

Track 3: Yeah, and if he wanted the money, how many years was he running at that church?

Track 3: he couldn't figure it out sooner it wasn't until his congregation had whittled

Track 3: down to like a core incestuous group and then he gets like to the point where

Track 3: like oh i finally figured it

Track 3: out and then now i got another outlet he's got a way out like no no it's,

Track 3: Yeah. He wanted the power of the position.

Track 1: Yeah.

Track 3: Justifies it all through faith.

Track 1: Well, it's interesting later too, because the, the side character who is again,

Track 1: Kerry Washington, you're led to believe it's Kerry Washington's, you know,

Track 1: son, no, he said stepbrother, illegitimate, illegitimate brother, illegitimate brother.

Track 1: And then later we find out what she is, but his character is, I found both extreme.

Track 1: Well, I found him pretty terrible generally as a, person but he's like recording.

Track 3: Everything you're supposed to yeah he's like a.

Track 1: Youtube youtuber i thought like the scene where he's go he rattles off all the

Track 1: things he tried to do to like.

Track 3: Become so funny i was about to say we

Track 3: got to mention that it's so funny to find the entire list

Track 3: yeah we can clip it in or we can find the entire list

Track 3: but it's so funny how he's like i tried i tried i

Track 3: tried hammering the race thing i tried hammering the trains thing i tried this

Track 3: thing it just keeps listing literally like almost everything off that you could

Track 3: list and then uh yeah then he has the fucking great little fucking line when

Track 3: a father just like how about we just get back to like the essentials i.

Track 1: Got the i got the full thing so he goes i tried everything believe me i hammered

Track 1: the race thing i hammered the gender thing the trans thing the border thing

Track 1: the homeless thing the war thing the election thing the abortion thing the climate

Track 1: thing and above things about induction stoves, Israel,

Track 1: library books, vaccines, pronouts, AK-47, socialism, BLM, CRT,

Track 1: the CDC, DEI, 5G, everything. All I did. Nothing. Nobody.

Track 1: People are just numb these days.

Track 1: And it's like both sort of telling, but also sort of telling about like the

Track 1: Republican Party and also, I guess, just political parties in general,

Track 1: but also just that people are tired of this shit too in like actual reality.

Track 1: People are tired of race wars and oh, like everything is they're gonna kill

Track 1: me it's like no we just want to fucking you know have money to buy things to,

Track 1: do stuff and live.

Track 3: Yeah i like what he follows up with when father like

Track 3: after he tells father judd that and he's like oh let's how about we

Track 3: just get back to like the essentials of connecting to with people and

Track 3: size like like showing some uh showing something

Track 3: they hate and making them think it's coming for something they love oh

Track 3: it's so dark and it's there's something something like that

Track 3: it's so dark but it's so true for how the republican party and political parties

Track 3: in america operate and how and like sigh as much of a shitheel fucking idiot

Track 3: as we may think he is at least understands that oh yeah yeah he understands it well.

Track 1: I think i mean that's the same way that most politicians you know senators both

Track 1: aisles they know everything they do is so calculated they know the messages

Track 1: they're using and what their appeal is and how they are working all of these

Track 1: things they're not they're not stupid they're you know they're idiots but they're not stupid.

Track 1: Um, a couple of the other characters we didn't talk about.

Track 1: One was the, um, the author played by Andrew Scott, who also is funny because

Track 1: Andrew Scott was in, have you ever seen the show Fleabag?

Track 2: Yeah, I did not put, I didn't recognize him as the hot priest.

Track 1: So in Fleabag, he plays like a priest who is, I won't give anything away,

Track 1: but he plays like a hot priest. That's basically.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: That's his character in that. Which everyone should go watch Fleabag.

Track 2: Yeah, you should watch Fleabag.

Track 1: There's like only like maybe can't be more than 20 episodes total of that show.

Track 1: Well worth it. But he's sort of like this former bestselling author.

Track 1: I don't know who exactly maybe they're going for a sort of his one-to-one comparison.

Track 1: And I mean, he's not as famous as Stephen King, so it's not really that level.

Track 1: It's sort of like, I don't know.

Track 2: I think it might be Orson Scott Card.

Track 1: Oh, okay.

Track 2: I have a feeling it's Orson Scott Card because the fact that like the way it's

Track 2: laid out is that like he was a super successful sci-fi writer who then came out as a far right crank.

Track 1: He's the one who did like Ender's Game.

Track 2: Right? Scott Card wrote Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, and then,

Track 2: you know, within the—I don't remember when exactly.

Track 2: I think it was, like, the first, like, Prop 8 debate, and then it came out that,

Track 2: like, Orson Scott Card was a raging homophobe and, you know,

Track 2: just generally a shitty person.

Track 2: Yeah. I have a feeling it might be worse than Scott Card, but—,

Track 2: It could also have been Robert Heinlein,

Track 2: who was not ever a liberal, but was an incredibly successful and famous sci-fi writer,

Track 2: but also a fucking douchebag.

Track 2: and very vocal about his libertarian conservative ideals and ideas and so.

Track 1: On better hope this doesn't get on the uh the hindline reddit because i've encountered

Track 1: people when i talk about like starship troopers the book versus starship troopers

Track 1: the movie and it's not a fun experience dealing with those idiots i.

Track 3: Love that you'll never let that go like.

Track 1: That is.

Track 3: You're like your forever eternal internet beef is just arguing with motherfuckers

Track 3: about starship troopers i love it so much for you.

Track 1: You know it really is my roman empire it's.

Track 3: Fantastic i love it i love hearing about it every so often.

Track 1: Yeah so what are the other what other ones did we not mention i feel like there's

Track 1: one of the i guess it's the germy.

Track 2: Renner's character is kind of.

Track 1: Yes who plays like Yeah, he plays a local doctor, and his wife leaves him, and he's depressed.

Track 1: His wife left him for someone she met on a fish message board,

Track 1: which I think is also really funny.

Track 3: So funny. It's so funny.

Track 2: I'm so curious. It was just like we are introduced to him as he is the local

Track 2: doctor, and he is the wife guy.

Track 2: Absolutely, utterly devoted to his wife.

Track 2: Like fucking like 10 minutes later, wife leaves him. There is no buildup to

Track 2: that at all. It's just...

Track 2: his life bottoms out like just fucking bottoms out.

Track 1: And you see him drinking or drunk and like pretty much every scene in the movie

Track 1: for the most part actively.

Track 3: Drinking in church yeah.

Track 1: Yeah yes and yeah then i think that's the there are like there's some like side

Track 1: characters i guess there's mila kunis who plays like the local police chief

Track 1: who i thought was like only okay in this movie i don't know there are some people

Track 1: i saw online said that she was miscast there's.

Track 2: So much debate about Mila Kulis' character in this movie.

Track 3: She was okay. There's like a couple moments where I'm like, she did alright there.

Track 1: She's also a rape apologist.

Track 2: Listen, I honestly, I...

Track 2: You're right. She is. She's also a massive Zionist. But like,

Track 2: and I honestly, I, I think that if it wasn't for those things,

Track 2: no one would have, they wouldn't say fucking word about her in this movie.

Track 2: Because frankly, like, let's be honest, like her role really didn't really need much.

Track 3: Like, no, it was fine.

Track 2: She didn't bring anything to the table because honestly, it wasn't necessary.

Track 2: that's like being like she was miscast that

Track 2: was that's like saying like you know like you know you brought

Track 2: a pickup truck to lowe's to like load stuff up

Track 2: and it was like it's like yeah that that's literally that's all we needed

Track 2: we didn't need anything else like yeah we weren't

Track 2: asking for much like you didn't need much here like i do

Track 2: think she looked she she looked out of

Track 2: place I do think that's the only way

Track 2: you could say she was miscast she looked out of place she did not look like

Track 2: a small town Hudson like River Valley like upstate New York like sheriff in

Track 2: the middle of nowhere she looked that's how I felt totally out of place I didn't think that she.

Track 1: Was like the wrong person I just think that she needed to be somebody else like you know.

Track 2: Literally anybody fucking me I could have the bar wasn't high yeah I could have

Track 2: acted that role like it's not like well.

Track 1: Lindsay Lohan was originally in talks to play that role.

Track 2: Get the fuck out of here.

Track 1: And Tom Hardy was supposed to play the Jeremy Renner character,

Track 1: but they both didn't, probably wanted too much money. Who knows?

Track 1: I couldn't find anything as to why they didn't do it, but.

Track 2: Lindsay Lohan? Like, how is that?

Track 3: Who?

Track 2: Was this a Rian Johnson-like call?

Track 3: Dude, this.

Track 1: I don't know.

Track 3: This is fucking Netflix IP now, man.

Track 2: Well, yeah, because Lindsay Lohan's in, she's in the Netflix stable.

Track 1: She is.

Track 2: She is in the Netflix stable.

Track 1: Anyone else, I guess you also have, what's his name? Thomas Hayden Church is

Track 1: sort of like the groundskeeper guy who does also come to play into it.

Track 1: You don't really learn much a whole much about him. I just like him.

Track 1: He's a, you know, he's nice.

Track 2: But I love, I love Thomas.

Track 1: Oh, you do like him. I was like, why? What did he do to you?

Track 2: Nothing. It goes back to my childhood of watching wings and he was in wings

Track 2: and I liked wings. That's right. As a child.

Track 1: He was just he's like a he's a lot of like small parts in movies too just like

Track 1: they always are pretty good you know i don't know i just i.

Track 2: Like like sideways.

Track 1: Yeah sideways i'm trying to think of other ones he was like he was in one of

Track 1: the spider-man movie spider-man 2 uh he.

Track 2: Was salmon was that spider-man 2 i think it was spider-man 2 i.

Track 1: Think so no three three that's three he was in spanglish too i don't remember

Track 1: what he played in that too i've never like thinking that like that era like

Track 1: the early 2000s was like his sort of moment he's a lot of we're now gonna anyway the.

Track 2: Rest of this episode is now gonna be about how evan has watched spanglish and spanglish too yeah.

Track 1: Is there a thing is too don't act like.

Track 3: You haven't watched it now.

Track 1: I guess we haven't even really talked about benoit blanc played by daniel craig

Track 1: sort of like the title character we've been.

Track 3: Jumping around all over the place on this one.

Track 1: Well i mean it's going to all the different characters but like he is

Track 1: in the first one he's sort of you're you're led

Track 1: to like the part of the mystery is like who hired him to

Track 1: come to be the detective and the

Track 1: second one it's also sort of like who we don't know immediately who comes why

Track 1: he's brought out there but then you learn that it's actually ed norton who wants

Track 1: him to you know solve the mystery like that's he wants him to be there to do

Track 1: it and he solves it like in two seconds which is the funniest part of that movie

Track 1: And then this one, it's, you know,

Track 1: also clear why they need him, but he doesn't show up till what, like minute 45,

Track 1: give or take, or I don't know, something like that.

Track 1: And he just does not fail to disappoint.

Track 1: And honestly, I saw someone posting that like, he's better in this role than he was as James Bond.

Track 2: A hundred percent.

Track 1: And I think it's hard to argue that that's not the case. I love Casino Royale,

Track 1: but I could just leave the rest of the franchise that he's in.

Track 1: These movies are just fun. He's great.

Track 3: He's so good.

Track 2: There is a reason why he has said he will play Benoit Blanc for as long as they're

Track 2: willing to make these movies.

Track 2: And it is clear that he, and like, it makes a difference when you are watching

Track 2: a movie and an actor, like they, you could tell they fucking love the role they're

Track 2: in. They love the character that they're playing.

Track 2: And it's like, he is so perfect as Benoit Blanc. And it is amazing.

Track 3: It really is.

Track 2: It is in every way he breathes life into this character that when he is put

Track 2: in a scene with another character or another actor and they do not.

Track 2: Honestly, I think that's why, because the majority of Mila Kunis is like...

Track 2: scenes in this movie are alongside him and judd and yeah she's gonna look bad in comparison,

Track 2: she's gonna look bad how are you gonna like it's

Track 2: true the actor who plays father judd is he's

Track 2: he's great and he's like he just worms

Track 2: his way into your little heart and he just

Track 2: like really does you want to you just want to hold him

Track 2: the sweet little boy you murdered a man but sweet little

Track 2: boy um not months in your wicks and

Track 2: then you got daniel craig is benoit blanc and it's like yeah every anybody's

Track 2: gonna look bad in comparison to that he yeah this man is where was he born he

Track 2: was born in chester cheshire england and you nah he just he's benoit blanc like with that,

Track 2: i don't like is that new orleans is that a new orleans accent i wonder i think it's new orleans I.

Track 3: Want to say it's like a...

Track 1: Do they ever say? I don't know if they ever say what it is.

Track 2: It might not just be New Orleans. It might just be Louisiana.

Track 3: Yeah, like a French Creole.

Track 2: But it's that so soft and kind of like real, like round, and he does it perfectly,

Track 2: and he just brings it to life.

Track 2: Yeah, anybody's going to look bad in comparison, and like...

Track 2: He just does not fail to impress whenever he shows up.

Track 2: And it's wonderful seeing somebody like, it is wonderful seeing somebody enjoying

Track 2: their craft. And he really does.

Track 1: I mean, for just generally about Daniel Craig, like he was in a lot of,

Track 1: before the period when he was doing the James Bond, he was in a lot of more interesting roles.

Track 1: And it's nice to see him do one again and one that's interesting.

Track 2: I just learned that he's married to Rachel Weisz, which...

Track 1: Oh, I didn't realize that.

Track 3: Oh, man. Okay. Okay.

Track 2: Go on, King? All right.

Track 3: Yeah.

Track 2: I wasn't familiar with your game.

Track 3: I wasn't familiar with your game.

Track 2: I wasn't familiar with your game. Yes, exactly.

Track 3: Damn.

Track 1: I'd recommend the movie also. Have you seen the movie Layer Cake that Daniel Craig is in?

Track 2: Excuse me, we're talking Rachel Weisz right now.

Track 1: Okay, I'm sorry. I apologize.

Track 3: Yeah, why would you change topics? This is now a Rachel Weisz podcast.

Track 2: My childhood crush.

Track 1: The mummy.

Track 2: Yeah. We're going to- Yeah.

Track 3: Me and my wife's childhood crush.

Track 1: They're making a mummy return.

Track 2: Yes.

Track 1: Not the name, just like a reboot.

Track 3: They're returning to the mummy.

Track 1: I think it's called Mummy 4, loosely. I don't know what that is.

Track 1: That's the case. We should really do the mummy. Actually. That's all that'll

Track 1: be a, or maybe just the whole sequel. I haven't seen the third ones.

Track 1: Then they came out, but the first two.

Track 2: Oh my God.

Track 3: I mean, like how you're saying, like how Benoit Blanc was like kind of different

Track 3: in like this one compared to the other ones.

Track 3: I mean, like he does have like the road to Damascus.

Track 3: We're super obvious too, but like this one, he's, I feel like he's less matter

Track 3: of fact and just like, you know what?

Track 3: I'm doing shit for the plot. this is fun

Track 3: like nat could have been alive yeah

Track 3: i mean he you know what i mean he was planning

Track 3: to intervene on that but like got held up and was like being dramatic and then

Track 3: ran into jud too but like he definitely understood what was happening he could

Track 3: have saved nat i mean he could have made sure that martha at the end got medical

Track 3: treatment as soon as he was aware but,

Track 3: nah let's let this ride for a bit it's going to be dramatic he.

Track 1: Hides the jewel.

Track 3: Yeah he does that he's like oh yeah i don't know what happened to it nothing

Track 3: untoward happened i was there i.

Track 2: I i i wouldn't know i wouldn't i wouldn't presume to know what happened to the jewel.

Track 3: Yeah and like he's just a shitster this whole movie and i love it so much that.

Track 2: It reminds me of like you know i saw somebody was like they were it was like

Track 2: i'm friends or something it's Like, does ACAB include Benoit Blanc? And it's like, no.

Track 2: Because he's not a cop, number one. And like all of this really does,

Track 2: like what Ward just laid out really does. Like he is just a guy.

Track 2: Like he has one loyalty and it ain't a property.

Track 2: And it's not even to money.

Track 1: Really.

Track 2: No, not at all.

Track 1: I don't even think it's not really a money thing.

Track 3: No, it's not the money.

Track 2: It is 100% the truth. that's it and.

Track 1: Just like i think it's also the thrill.

Track 2: Yeah like in this yeah.

Track 3: It's very we find out in this one even more so it's the thrill in this movie

Track 3: compared to the truth in the last couple movies he's really just like.

Track 2: Let's let's see how this thing i don't think it's

Track 2: the thrill it is or

Track 2: if it is it's the thrill of exposing

Track 2: liars and duplicity which is

Track 2: really outlined it's not just

Track 2: the thrill it's because it's not an adrenaline thing it is

Track 2: like he really he isn't a

Track 2: cop because he his devotion is to not just is to actual justice and actual exposing

Track 2: which is made infinitely clear in this as composed compared to the first the

Track 2: first two movies when he walks in and he the first time he shows up it is like he.

Track 2: This movie introduces Benoit Blanc as a character.

Track 2: Like, we've seen two movies of him, but this movie is the one where you learn

Track 2: his motivations as a character.

Track 2: This is where you learn when he shows up in that church and Judd says,

Track 2: How does it all make you feel?

Track 2: And Blanc goes, How does it make me feel? Truthfully? Judd, sure.

Track 2: Well, the architecture, that interests me. I feel the grandeur,

Track 2: the mystery, the intended emotional effect.

Track 2: It's, and it's like someone has shown a story at me that I do not believe.

Track 2: It's built upon the empty promise of a child's fairy tale filled with malevolence

Track 2: and misogyny and homophobia and is justified untold acts of violence and cruelty

Track 2: while all the while and still hiding its own shameful acts.

Track 2: So like an ornery mule kicking back, I want to pick apart, pick it apart and

Track 2: pop its perfidious bubble of belief and get to a truth I can swallow without choking.

Track 2: That is Benoit Blanc.

Track 2: That is Benoit Blanc. Like that is three movies in we learn his like real who

Track 2: he is as character and this is it right here.

Track 2: He does not serve capital. He does not serve anything but showing the truth

Track 2: and God have I never identified with the character more so than in that moment when someone goes.

Track 2: Even the dismissal of the architecture, people was like, but don't you think

Track 2: the buildings are beautiful?

Track 2: No, I don't. I don't fucking care about your gothic architecture.

Track 2: No, I don't think they're pretty.

Track 2: I don't care. You're not special because you built fancy buildings.

Track 2: Shut the fuck up. I don't care.

Track 2: It's all tainted by the ignominity of your morale, your depravity.

Track 2: It's all tainted by that. I do not care.

Track 2: Take your rafters and shove them up your ass.

Track 3: Cool that you built that, but where the children fell.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 1: Do you think that he views, you could almost view the, through Benoit Blank's,

Track 1: maybe like through our eyes too, is that the church is almost like, sort of like cops.

Track 1: In the sense that like, yes, there's like lots of bad cops, but like,

Track 1: okay, Judd is like the good priest.

Track 1: Like he does try and do good. But that doesn't really matter as he sits in the

Track 1: infrastructure of this giant evil sort of thing that preys on children and all

Track 1: the awful atrocities and murders and everything they've done. I don't know.

Track 2: I would think so. I think he – because it seems like it sounds like almost like he pities Judd.

Track 1: Yeah, a little bit.

Track 2: And it's not like at the end where he's like – when Judd's like,

Track 2: I'm going to have a mess. He's like, yeah, I'll sit because you're there.

Track 2: He's like, no, I'm fucking leaving.

Track 2: No, I don't want to do that.

Track 1: Yeah and and what's what's amazing about him too

Track 1: and i in this movie more than the

Track 1: other two he's or maybe actually is similar

Track 1: to the second glass onion is he seems like he's mostly figured

Track 1: out what's happened like instantly like it doesn't take him long to figure out

Track 1: for the like most of what's going on he still has like uncovered little bits

Track 1: and he's using judd to help him get there he doesn't do a lot of like detective

Track 1: work or police work in this like he's just really smart and is able to deduce, you know,

Track 1: things about people really well.

Track 3: Yeah, it's pretty nice. It's definitely very enjoyable compared to,

Track 3: like, what we get with, like, a lot of detective things, which fucking,

Track 3: like, God, how much Sherlock Holmes shit there is.

Track 3: And, like, it always goes so over the top. It's like, well, I know because of

Track 3: this detail plus this, and it means that, and da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

Track 3: It's like, nah, Benoit's got it figured out. He doesn't need to explain it. We'll see it.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 3: We'll get to this does. We'll go for the big reveal at the end. Enjoy the ride.

Track 1: I saw some people complaining that the last act was the worst part of the film

Track 1: for some reason, because like the way that they reveal everything is like not good.

Track 1: Like it's too. I don't know. Like in all the movies, there's like the big sort

Track 1: of telling of the reveal kind.

Track 3: Of spoon feeding. Maybe that's just kind of how a big reveal who done it works.

Track 1: I mean, if anything.

Track 3: What?

Track 1: If anything, I would argue more so that the first third is the weakest part

Track 1: of the film, even though it's extremely important to the rest of it. I'm not saying that.

Track 3: I like the first third.

Track 1: You could argue, perhaps, that the first third is the weakest part.

Track 1: Not the last third. That's just foolishness.

Track 3: I like the first third. I suspended my Marxism for a little bit and just reveled

Track 3: in the liberal idealism with the religion that I was being at plate with Judd.

Track 2: See, that's— Okay.

Track 3: Did I break it, Bill? No. It's like when I watch The Martian,

Track 3: you know, the liberal optimism really gets to me.

Track 2: I find the nature of church or religious institutions,

Track 2: like, from our perspective, like,

Track 2: under the purview of this podcast, you know, talk about, you know,

Track 2: movies from a leftist perspective or Marxist perspective, you know,

Track 2: like, really the only thing to really talk about in this movie is the way in

Track 2: which we're going to talk about.

Track 2: religion serves capital specifically Christianity and like it really like,

Track 2: always strikes me because, and I'm going to, I'm going to reveal something here.

Track 2: Now, I am an atheist, have always, have been an atheist, like,

Track 2: you know, for a very, for most of my life.

Track 2: But I, I went to, and my mother taught at a Catholic school.

Track 2: Um, and I went to CCD at said Catholic school, um, which for those of you who

Track 2: are not Catholic, CCD is like Sunday school for, for Catholics.

Track 2: Um, they did not like me. Um, I was in trouble a lot.

Track 2: Um, but there was always, there was a time in life in which I wanted to be basically

Track 2: like a pastor or a priest,

Track 2: because to me, what I had been told is that they served people and that they, they,

Track 2: they, they acted as like, you know, a servant to the community.

Track 2: and like to me as like a young person

Track 2: who was very much like you know before i

Track 2: knew what those words were like basically a

Track 2: communist you know like i was a kid that wanted to

Track 2: to help people and i was like okay so you you're

Track 2: you're a priest and you like the church like gives you

Track 2: a house and like they like feed you and shit and

Track 2: then you just like help people i'm like that sounds like the

Track 2: greatest job in the fucking world i'm like

Track 2: you could just do that i'm like if we could just do

Track 2: that without the religion i'm down for it let's do it give

Track 2: me a house and like you know like i'm like you know i don't know like i'm a

Track 2: paycheck and i you know i could get fed i could just like help people just like

Track 2: just people could just come to me and talk about their problems and i could

Track 2: just help them with them like i'd be like sign me the fuck up i'm all for it

Track 2: and it's like to me watching this,

Track 2: it's like, it brought all that back because it's like that whole thing has been

Track 2: so divided by this system and then perverted and isolated and siloed into religion.

Track 2: And it's like hamstrung it because of that.

Track 2: And it's like, I can't help but see how capital and Christianity have.

Track 2: Unified in such a ways to become these powerful entities that twist everything

Track 2: to keep control like wicks to have that control and then you have people like

Track 2: father judd who just want to like help people and it's sad.

Track 3: I know it's fucking sad and i i resonated with

Track 3: that that's why i was able to like suspend my marxism in

Track 3: the first third of the movie because like i

Track 3: grew up in the church in the south so like yeah no

Track 3: i very much had the same sentiments where it was like oh i

Track 3: can help people that's what the church does yeah i want

Track 3: to be a part of that and then you grow up and you're like oh the church doesn't

Track 3: really be be doing that at all no not a lot no and but yeah no and so that's

Track 3: like kind of yeah no that's why i enjoyed that uh first third you know just

Track 3: seeing judd and it's like dude where was that where is that yeah where is that when you need it yeah.

Track 2: And like i can't help But think that like there is an aspect like that is a

Track 2: deliberate methodology of the system under which we exist that keeps that siloed

Track 2: and keeps it in a specific place and then reduced.

Track 2: And then like, you know, the majority of the people in those systems are still

Track 2: just looking for power like Wick, which keeps that in like Father Judd,

Track 2: like the church, it acts as like a pressure release vow.

Track 2: Like, liberatory theology really, in the end, acts as a pressure-release valve

Track 2: against actual revolution, in my mind.

Track 2: The left needs to come to terms with Christianity in a big way.

Track 1: I see that argument about that a lot, not coming to terms with it,

Track 1: just the idea that can you do things with religion? Do you have to avoid them?

Track 1: And then there's just, among all the arguments you see amongst the left,

Track 1: vaguely terming the left, seems like a divisive one.

Track 2: There is Ward probably like knows it, but there's a whole, I believe it is Stalin

Track 2: talking to one of the, I think he was the president.

Track 2: party leader of it might have been

Track 2: polling about the their work with the religious leaders in the country.

Track 3: Yeah i'm looking up something else i mean the one i always like to share in

Track 3: discords uh to piss off uh hosius was uh when stalin met with hosia and said

Track 3: uh nah you need to do business more like china no wick's entire.

Track 2: Fucking confession of bad masturbation was really just something.

Track 3: Oh my god when he cuts it he's like and then i did that thing with where i hold

Track 3: my hand upside down like i told you about like and when he reaches.

Track 1: Out to.

Track 3: Shake his hand and kind of jarring dude the

Track 3: i gotta give credit to the sound effects team for making the hand connecting

Track 3: sound sound wet when that happens watch it back if you didn't catch it it's

Track 3: a wet hand contact handshake that is happening they did so great with the noise.

Track 1: You know it's funny i saw people complaining that

Track 1: the the moment when the when josh

Track 1: brolin punches him in the like in the stomach they use a stun double for like

Track 1: that's that moment and it's like it also like as you watch it it actually is

Track 1: very obvious that it's not him when he's there like the way he sort of turned

Track 1: and you're like why did he have to do that It was just up getting punched in

Track 1: the stomach. It's like, well, maybe he didn't want to get punched. I don't know.

Track 1: Bring it out with Netflix or fucking maybe Josh O'Connor has it. Who fucking cares?

Track 2: I'm going to actually, we're going to actually talk about that.

Track 2: That is such a stupid, stupid, out of touch response to something like that.

Track 2: The possibility of, listen, for those of you who've never been in a fight in

Track 2: real life, okay, there is the possibility.

Track 2: You do not understand how quickly your life can go very,

Track 2: very badly because you hit somebody and they fell down and hit their head in

Track 2: the wrong spot, in the wrong place, or they fell in the wrong place.

Track 2: Like, one of the people, the respondents, I saw this, is like,

Track 2: in the fact that there is a scene, I believe it's Sicario with George Clooney.

Track 2: George Clooney's in Sicario, right?

Track 3: No.

Track 2: That's not Sicario. There's a movie with George Clooney in which he does the

Track 2: stunt, and it's literally just falling out of a chair, and...

Track 2: He came like incredibly close to severing his spine.

Track 2: The human body is incredibly durable until it's not.

Track 2: And then when it's not, your multimillion dollar movie is now fucked.

Track 2: So that's why when Josh Brolin, who was a large man, punched Judd,

Track 2: who was not a large man, they said, let's get in a stunt double.

Track 2: because they didn't want to have a $150 million movie fucking either scrapped or halted,

Track 2: because their main actor was now in the hospital or dead.

Track 3: I mean yeah i mean yeah people freak out like when uh people who like work on

Track 3: set with fucking tom cruise like hate that he does his own stunts because like

Track 3: dude if he gets fucking hurt he could be in the hospital for like eight months

Track 3: to a fucking year and then he did like he could die halo.

Track 1: Jumps or whatever man like.

Track 3: Like he could die he could get hurt and then guess what now

Track 3: they're out of paycheck they're out of work everything gets fucked like

Track 3: there are many people like even just taking a fall like from that chair like

Track 3: yeah he smacks his fucking head i mean he's an actor is he trained to take a

Track 3: fall like that stunt doubles are syriana not sicario like dude oh that's the iraq war.

Track 2: War or something in which he almost severed his spine doing something really

Track 2: stupid like really like simple.

Track 3: I mean yeah something simple like dude from that kind of fall like dude i can

Track 3: imagine very simply just falling on falling wrong you got to collapse long cool

Track 3: how long does that haul production he.

Track 2: Was he was in a chair george colin was in a chair and the this is almost the

Track 2: same scene he's shooting a scene when someone kicked over the chair he was sitting

Track 2: in that's crazy tore his dura mater which is the wrap around the spine that

Track 2: holds in the spinal fluid like that's why they had a stunt stuff.

Track 1: Yeah. Yeah. It, it, it's always strikes me too, as just like,

Track 1: people will get mad at the dumbest things about movies because the internet is a cesspool.

Track 3: Yeah. Like, aren't you glad it came out now instead of like six months from now?

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 3: Why are you mad? This is good. This is a good movie.

Track 1: Yeah. It's a, it's yeah. It's a, it's funny.

Track 1: Those are the only real criticisms I could see was like, people were mad about

Track 1: the, not, I don't know how many people didn't like the last act and they were

Track 1: annoyed that he didn't do his own stunt. That's like, come on.

Track 2: And Mila Kunis. They didn't like Mila Kunis.

Track 3: Like, could they have done better than Mila Kunis? Yeah. But like, come on.

Track 2: But again.

Track 3: People don't complain to complain.

Track 2: She was barely in it. She was barely in it. And it was fine.

Track 3: Barely in it. The bar was low. She passed it.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 3: What's the problem?

Track 2: I mean, I don't want to like give away the entire like ending.

Track 2: I mean, like, you know, I don't want to give the plot, you know, like obviously this is.

Track 3: Now we're a spoiler podcast, man. Yeah, I know. But like, do it.

Track 2: I just, you know, like the entire thing is such an interesting,

Track 2: it was such an interesting exploration of the way in which faith is weaponized by the church,

Track 2: by the system, and by people, but also internalized against themselves.

Track 2: You know, it's a very interesting film from that perspective, I thought.

Track 3: No, absolutely. It really hits on all those aspects. So while I was thinking

Track 3: about that today, because it's like, you know, just good to see like the aspects

Track 3: of Christofascism and like how it's weaponized in political forms and like, or just how it's used in.

Track 3: like close circles is a form of power and control but like with martha like

Track 3: dude you get to see how it personally affects people.

Track 2: Yeah and then which they then externalize it and then put it upon other people

Track 2: and again like and also like specifically you know on people within their own

Track 2: that that would be within you know like their own community you know like the

Track 2: fact that martha is a woman and she uses that that patriarchy,

Track 2: as a means of control and oppression of another woman but.

Track 1: We haven't like really we don't have to talk deeply about it but like some of

Track 1: the most of this film was shot on location which so many of the scenes like

Track 1: in the church with like the light shining in on.

Track 2: Benoit blanc and.

Track 1: Like these different things were so good the.

Track 3: Lighting was so good and so.

Track 2: Well timed one.

Track 1: Of the best perfect. But one of the scenes not related to the lighting or any

Track 1: of that, but that made the film to me so much better is when they're at.

Track 3: Is it when Jeremy Renner's body slid down the stairs and it goes.

Track 1: Wait, wait, wait. Why did he get a stunt double to do that? Motherfucking loser.

Track 1: No, but when they're, when they're at the house and they're kind of,

Track 1: they like lock themselves into the sort of the, I think they're initially like

Track 1: lock themselves in the room and they find the, the recording and the video and they watch it.

Track 1: And then they're trying to investigate the company that comes out and like removes

Track 1: the stone from the mausoleum.

Track 1: Like, oh, yeah, the construction company. And he's talking. The judge is talking

Track 1: to the woman at that company, like the stonemason company on the phone.

Track 1: And she like starts breaking down because she has like her father is sick and is in hospice.

Track 1: And like they easily could have made that scene into being sort of like something

Track 1: jokey or Benoit Blanc says something that's sort of funny or quippy.

Track 1: But then it turns into like him having like a real long conversation with her

Track 1: over the phone about like about things that are happening unrelated to like

Track 1: the plot has nothing to do with it.

Track 2: Benoit Blanc does have that, but like over time, you actually see he softens

Track 2: as he, he's still annoyed.

Track 3: Road to Damascus.

Track 2: He's still annoyed, but he, he softens as he watches Judd talk to this woman

Track 2: and he sees Judd for who he is, not as a representative of the church,

Track 2: but as a man who cares for other people.

Track 1: Yes.

Track 3: And that's part of that, uh, liberal idealism I was talking about that I was enjoying earlier.

Track 2: Yeah. Which, I mean, like, it really, what it boils down to is it's like that

Track 2: even as an atheist, even as a person, not even, not an atheist,

Track 2: but as like a person who like fundamentally disagrees with the concept of gods, but also like,

Track 2: like, let's be real. Like if your God is,

Track 2: if the christian god is like he's

Track 2: an asshole i dislike him personally

Track 2: like he's a bad person

Track 2: he's a bad thing um but like we have to like at a certain point in human development

Track 2: in cultural development those people served community and that has actually

Track 2: been actively taken away from us by this system.

Track 3: I mean, and I think that scene does a beautiful way of depicting that.

Track 3: I mean, we've talked about alienation a lot recently on this podcast.

Track 3: And I mean, that's a good example of it. This woman's working her job.

Track 3: She's not connected with her

Track 3: mother who's in hospice. She doesn't seem to have too much other family.

Track 3: I mean, her brother's out and she's got to reach out and call him.

Track 3: It's not like she doesn't make it seem like it's an easy thing either to just do that.

Track 3: um and she just happens to have this priest on the phone and she just reaches

Track 3: out for some sense of fucking community yeah some sense of humanity just someone

Track 3: to be with her in that moment.

Track 1: Which also shows i mean you don't know how far

Track 1: away this place is but presumably within the ability

Track 1: if this person was interested in being at a church if

Track 1: josh brolin wasn't such a piece of shit and like bad and not interested in actually

Track 1: growing his community this person might actually come to church and like be

Track 1: interested as opposed to him like literally actively trying to make people leave

Track 1: his church i mean granted there was like a scheme happening underlying later on but i.

Track 3: Mean shit we don't even know she could have been one of the people that tried

Track 3: to come to church and then got burned by fucking monsignor wicks for trying

Track 3: to go and then here she is talking to someone who actually seems pretty nice

Track 3: father judd somebody different like okay yeah.

Track 1: Yeah um i'm gonna say yeah i mean i i appreciate too like maybe not like most

Track 1: likely anyone listening has probably already watched the movie but like the

Track 1: ending like going through the floor like breaking out breaking down the entire

Track 1: ending like we don't necessarily have to we already spoil a lot of the things on it but yeah.

Track 3: We spoiled a lot you need to come to this podcast having watched it,

Track 3: unless it explicitly says spoiler-free.

Track 2: You know, a whodunit.

Track 3: Yeah, especially a whodunit.

Track 1: I don't know what else I've got on it. I thought there, I thought,

Track 1: oh, one of my favorite lines, and both my wife and I were laughing hysterically

Track 1: when they said, I don't remember which person said it, but they said that he's

Track 1: young, dumb, and full of Christ.

Track 1: And I thought that was just a fucking banger of a line.

Track 3: Awesome.

Track 1: And the second great one was when they made the joke about, like, Star Wars.

Track 2: Yes.

Track 3: Yes, that was funny. yeah.

Track 1: I understood the assignment to uh to i i know i get it guys i get it.

Track 2: Yeah that was.

Track 3: And i that.

Track 2: Felt like him speaking to you evan and people not understanding starship troopers.

Track 3: I loved uh i love the delivery of glenn close when uh it's like oh yeah the

Track 3: legend of the harlot whore it's like who's that oh which is mother what about

Track 3: her she was a harlot and a more yeah so matter of fact right do it just i mean

Track 3: what more did you expect i.

Track 2: Still want to i,

Track 2: A lot of Catholic priests having kids. And, like, the Wix is one thing,

Track 2: because that was, like, covered up.

Track 2: But, like, the grandfather, that was just, like, out in the open,

Track 2: which felt weird. Like, that was just.

Track 1: Like— They didn't really explain that, did they?

Track 2: No!

Track 3: Yeah, no, that was— Not at all. Yeah, I forgot about that part. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Track 3: Yeah, that was just passed off. Yeah, that seemed, like, didn't need to be explained.

Track 3: Like, yeah, just go for it, guys.

Track 3: Yeah, that one didn't really make too sense. Wix is—yeah, that makes more sense

Track 3: because it's secretive and everything. Yeah.

Track 1: They almost make it seem like it's just sort of this thing that happens all

Track 1: the time. And like, we just, we just don't talk about it.

Track 3: Yeah. I mean, they still leave the crucifix off of the church as a reminder of the Harlot Whore.

Track 1: Which then it's like cool at the end when he does replace it.

Track 3: I honestly love that part where it gets brought up because they just say Harlot

Track 3: Whore like five, six, seven times in a row. Just so fast.

Track 3: It's just funny. loved.

Track 2: The replay of her destroying

Track 2: the church and the even though like they barely even changed anything i don't

Track 2: even know if they changed the music but like it's still the intention came through

Track 2: so much clearer and it was like such a subtle change but it was so obvious like

Track 2: the intention of the character like why she was reacting that was very well done.

Track 3: Yeah no it was beautifully done and then

Track 3: like the only real change is the little girl's behavior

Track 3: versus like the unfaithful narrator in the beginning explaining what happened

Track 3: versus like oh what actually happened and what she actually said now that she's

Track 3: being truthful and narrating it's like you harlot whore yeah of course I'm gonna

Track 3: beat the shit out of you too like fuck,

Track 3: man fuck them kids I.

Track 1: Did see in the wikipedia that they are,

Track 1: in daniel craig and uh johnson are like developing a story for a fourth one

Track 1: the thing that i don't get is that the netflix only netflix only bought two

Track 1: of them yes please two part two and three does that mean that like part four

Track 1: wouldn't be owned by netflix anymore or they then probably go back and be like let's i'm.

Track 3: Sure it'll go back to netflix.

Track 1: It's not like they have everything in like a year.

Track 3: And a half.

Track 1: Yeah they got what 85 billion dollars to buy warner brothers and just It's like,

Track 1: yeah, I got another 250 mil just sitting around to make, to buy the rights to

Track 1: make this, plus the cost of making the movie.

Track 1: Imagine if Netflix actually cared about making medium to small budget movies.

Track 1: They could have made, they could make a lot of it.

Track 2: We think?

Track 1: We don't need to get into that.

Track 2: We don't?

Track 3: That'd require a different system, Evan.

Track 1: A different system.

Track 2: What would that system be, Warren?

Track 3: Oh, socialism.

Track 1: Um well i think um that about wraps it up but uh evan here bill and ward we'll

Track 1: catch everyone next time have.

Track 3: A great one.

Track 2: Have a good night guys.