Is Blissoma Skincare the Holy Grail for Sensitive Skin? with Julie Longyear✨ Ep.127

Episode 127 • 5th August 2025 • Toxin Free (ish) • Wendy Kathryn

Welcome back to the Toxin Free Podcast. I'm really excited to have Julie Longyear here who is the founder of bli, which if you spend any amount of time over on my toxin-free shopping guide in my skincare section, I have a lot of BOMA products that I love, and what you are mostly known for is the organic.

Regenerative meticulously picked sourcing and formulations of your products. So thank you for coming on the Toxin Fridge podcast. I'm excited to have you here.

It's my pleasure. It's so much fun to get to spend some time with you.

So what made you start like one day? Did you just wake up and say, you know what? I think I wanna formulate my own skincare products.

well, I mean, if, if you asked like my parents, I was the type of kid that was always out in the backyard, like mixing little potions together out of like the leaves and berries, off the trees. Like I even tried eating. Like, I'm, I'm glad I'm, I didn't die. , 'Cause like my mom was like, don't, don't do anything like that.

And then I would be like, let's taste this berry, not knowing like, what it was. So I have had a very naturally curious personality and was always very eager. Like I, I definitely had like a forest fairy kind of vibe going on where, you know, like it was all about the potions and the twigs and the. The mixing things.

So I love cooking and when I started having skincare problems, like, um, of my own, like acne breakouts, um, rashes from various, I didn't know what it was from at the time. It turns out it was from using the wrong skincare, um, and the wrong ingredients. So my skin was very unhappy and it was a very natural process for me to start to say, well, like, maybe I could do something about this.

Um, and I, I do have some chemistry background, so that helped. Um, so I, I had taken like four semesters of chemistry in school, anticipating initially that I would go into art restoration, but I ended up using that towards herbalism. So it all worked out.

I love it. I love that so much.

very convoluted.

Yeah. No, I love it that we, I am a family here and you remind me a lot of my daughter, like we are multi-passionate, multi, like we just have this love of learning and this insatiable curiosity for reading and learning and in a bunch of different ways, right?

We're not in a box, and I, I love, I think I am like very drawn to people like that, so I love it. So you boso, specifically as a skincare brand, you have a cult-like following when it comes to people that have. Severe skin issues. People who have rosacea, people who have sensitive skin, people who literally break out to everything or have reactions to everything.

You are the one skincare line that every, that's where people flock. Was that purposeful? Did you start your line with that intention?

To a degree, I would say I started it more as an activist than as like a business person. So my goal was after I found out, um, what was missing my skin up from the conventional skincare products that I was using, and even like the natural stuff that was coming from like the health food store, um, that turned out to be a huge problem.

And I thought I was choosing things that were good for me and I was so frustrated. That I had been spending all this money and time, um, and still ending up with skin problems and that that literally the thing that was supposed to fix it was the thing that was causing the problems that I really wanted to show people what was possible.

So in, in a way, it was because it came from my own sensitivities and frustrations, um, with my own skin because like I knew the difficulty that I had been through. And there is really, there really is a set of people. That truly cannot use a lot of what is out there. And those people really need something because like my skin is pretty high maintenance still.

Like I still need to take care of it on a daily basis. Or you know, people are always like, your skin looks so amazing. And I'm like, well if it, it wouldn't dip. I didn't take good care of it. Because even right now, like at 47, like I'm still, I have like a pre. Period kind of cycle. I had a hysterectomy, so I don't have like a period, period anymore, but my cycle is still active.

And so

Yeah.

yeah, I get like breakouts still. Um, even like I own a skincare line, like things are just not perfect, right? But, um, I, I really wanted to make sure that people had options. Um, and that, 'cause I know what it means to me to be able to live at peace with my skin. 'cause when my skin was disrupted, what I wanted most was the ability to just go through my day without thinking about my skin a million times.

Like, oh, it's uncomfortable, or, oh, like, is somebody looking at this breakout? Um, you just can't live your best life. You can't be confident. Um, it's very difficult to be confident when your thoughts are preoccupied with like the comfort and. Um, how your skin appears to others and how it appears to you.

Like every time you catch a, you know, look at yourself in the mirror, like if your skin is disrupted, usually it impacts people's moods and there's a strong correlation between, um, like depression and anxiety and conditions like rosacea because, um, people really suffer, um, internally, emotionally from this as well as physically.

So. Uh, I really get a lot of joy out of, um, making that go away for people. 'cause I do think there's plenty of the beauty industry that's like catering to people that just wanna like, look and smell nice. Um, and that's fine and people can do that. But a lot of those products are literally what's causing problems for people like me.

And so where do you go when you truly have a skin disruption and dermatol, like, dermatologist options, we're not solving my problem. Um.

and oftentimes we'll create a whole new set of

Set.

that make it worse to begin. Like, yo, the rebound effect from some of those meds and creams and topicals that I see from people is horrific.

Yeah, I'm, I'm very much like in all the tools in the toolbox kind of person, but you have to be very specific about when you use each tool. So there are situations when, like, say, a steroid might be useful for somebody who's having like a severe flare of something, but you wanna use it for like, as little time as possible and they get the hell off of it.

Um, and unfortunately they've become like. So things like that have become like a, just give it to everybody type of solution.

like candy.

Right? Um, and that's not where things should be. Um, so I try not to demonize, um, options that are out there because there are legitimate reasons for basically most of the options that exist.

Uh, but I do think that we need more sustainable solutions that don't have the risk of side effects, and that also encourage our skin to be. Um, more resilient and independent and self-sufficient. And so that's the goal. Like, um, yes, like I still use my skincare every single day, but it's because it allows my skin to function as itself.

Like I'm basically just trying to support my skin and being its best self versus trying to like, like hit it with a hammer and change it, like force it to do anything. Yeah.

No, I love that so much. And you're right about, you know, I think human nature is to just take everything to the extreme. When there's a company, and I won't name them, but they have this like viral Korean, a hundred percent natural. $200 bottle of whatever, and it gets sent to me all the time and people are like, well, what do you think about this?

Is this clean? And I, and I always say, that's the wrong question,

Yeah.

like you, that there's like a hundred plus That product, like that's insane.

Yeah. How can it

while there is a portion of the population that right now it's fine for them, eventually they will become sensitized to it. Eventually they will have a reaction to it like that.

There's no reason for that. Like that is crazy. So it it, you're asking the wrong question. And so I do love that you. Are so careful and meticulous in your ingredients. And I am a massive supporter of regenerative agriculture, regenerative farming. And I think I read one time, maybe it was on your website or something that you wrote, where, um, you know, people want things that are certified organic.

They wanna know your sourcing is organic, but really what's better is regenerative. And so I talk a lot about that and you share that same philosophy. So when you're choosing sourcing. Of your products, do you sometimes like choose the small, regenerative, high quality farm over, let's say like a bigger source of something that is maybe certified organic?

Yes. I mean, so, and, and those choices are all made with a lot of thought, but my goal is to send as much money directly to farmers as possible. And the, and there really is a difference. Like if you get, say, like a pound of dried herb from like a big certified organic distributor versus a pound of dried herb directly from somebody that dried it themselves, um, the freshness is better like the color, um, even though it's dried, right?

They're both dried, but one will look like a lot more dead than the other. And so lack of, uh, pesticide residue is only one of the things that we should be thinking about. In terms of, and this is optimally, you know, like obviously we all have to get through our day and like, but this is my job. So that's why, 'cause like, I'm, I'm also very much a fan of like your, you know, very sensible approach to things.

And I think that lots of times people do have to make just the best choice that they can in that given moment. And I'm always for like, never beating yourself up about, you know, when you have to make a cha uh, choice that maybe isn't your perfect. Version of whatever you would like, but it's my job to kind of do that work on behalf of people so that I can offer them an option that, where that effort has been put in.

And so for people that do want that, that's my role is to do that work for you. Um, and to like look at the, the farmers and talk to them and try and find the best sourcing we can. We're not at like a hundred percent. You know, farm direct sourcing. But I really love connecting with the people that are producing the botanicals, you know, in the US and beyond.

Like we have suppliers that are both in Oregon and Illinois, um, and then also suppliers that are all, all the way over in Vinu too. And so, like, you know, when there's a volcanic eruption, I send them an email and check in on them and like, how, how's the farm, how are people? Um, and then.

that you have that direct connection to the people that are actually in the fields. And I often tell people that many times when companies are supplying. Raw materials and they're buying in bulk and they're buying from brokers and they have no idea where it came from, how many times it exchanged hands, they have no idea what it was mixed with.

They just have no idea. And that is the majority of the pipeline of sourcing a raw materials that comes into skincare company. So whenever I find people like you, companies who genuinely have relationships with the people that are growing. Your, you know, raw source material, whether it's botanicals or you know, whatever it is you're getting.

I always wanna support you and I love that you said like it's your job because I feel like the burden for clean, high nutrient regenerative, like all of these things that are so good for us, the burden has been put on the consumer to figure it out. And that is so unfair to the average person who is like.

Busy. As you know what moms are running around. We're all trying to do the best we can. We're all trying to save a buck. We're all trying to like just do the best that we can. And so I also say that a lot. Like, this is my job. My job is to do all of that hard work for you so that you can just breathe and just be a normal person.

And so I love, I love that perspective.

Yeah. I mean it's, that's in some ways it's the fun part of my job too. Like I love learning, you know, what's making these plants? That's the science part of my brain too, is like, I love learning what's making them nutritious. How do we get the most out of that? You know, what's the best processing and like all that fun stuff that's, that's the nerd in me that gets super excited about all that.

But then I love knowing that I can feel good about what I'm offering my customers, and that's where the efficacy comes from because really that's why people buy product after product after product. Not seeing the results that they really want, or not even understanding what's really possible for their skin.

'cause they might think, oh, I just have bad skin. Or like, oh, my skin just like, is always disrupted. Well, you might be just using the wrong product or you might be something using something that's ineffective. Um, and so that, and that's the majority of what's out there. And still, like I, I also have had to build the company very um.

Um, or to use the word organic, but organically, um, because the, the other problem that I do see is that when companies really grow quickly, that's when you have to make a lot of those compromises and ingredient sourcing because there really is no fast way to build an optimal sustainable. Um, nutritious supply chain.

There is a limited amount of botanicals out there that are at the highest quality. And as much as I love, like abundance mentality and thinking like, oh, there's always, and there, there's a lot, don't get me wrong. It's enough for a lot of people, but it's also still only a certain amount. And then there's, you, you basically, if you are growing a company really big, really fast, you almost inherently have to make some compromises about the quality of materials that you're gonna use because.

That supply chain probably doesn't exist and or farming supply chains take like, I would say minimum three years to really grow. Um, like if, if you go to a farmer and you're like, I want you to start cultivating X, Y, Z for me. Um, and then they have to like figure out where they're gonna put it in their fields and plant it.

And then you're like a year from the first harvest and they're still gonna have to perfect their. Process, like even the little local farm that we work with over in Illinois, it took them two and a half years to get us a first crop of marshmallow.

you have to grow this stuff. You have to. I always tell people, there's a couple companies that I just really love, that I work very closely with, and one of the biggest complaints I hear about those companies is there's always things out of stock. Yeah. And I always tell them that is a good sign.

The fact that like they don't just turn around and go buy a source that is not better quality. Just to keep something in stock is a sign that that company is committed to their, you know, their farmer, to that, that quality to that source, and they're not willing to compromise. And so it does mean. Working seasonally, working with nature, working with crops.

And so I, I try so hard to throw as much support as I can behind them and also help people like having conversations like this. Like there's a reason why those quality products cost more.

Mm-hmm.

There just is. And so, know, when you're buying something to buy with intention, um, and you don't need a 12 step.

Skincare process. You just need like a very small handful of products to support your skin. Do what it does best. You know, our, our bodies know what to do, and so I just really appreciate your philosophy. So let's move to sunscreen.

Yeah.

Because you kind of did something that, and so I work with a lot of brands.

I help them formulate, I help them behind the scenes on like their labeling. Um, one of my biggest goals is to help people move to, um, preservatives that are safer, but also really effective because I have seen. To your point about moving the right direction, but going too extreme. I've seen a lot of companies formulate with quote unquote supernatural preservatives that I know are not effective. Um, and so I, the formulation piece is just fascinating. But I will tell you that the majority of skincare companies, even the best ones that formulate all their skincare products in-house, they won't do that for sunscreen.

Yeah.

They won't formulate their own sunscreen 'cause that is a whole different level of approvals and like the FDA gets involved.

Now you've got drug facts, like there's all of that. But you, you formulated your own sunscreen. Can, can we talk about that?

that is true. Um, yes, and it was, uh, definitely a long and um, slightly torturous process at times.

I bet. I

Um, yeah, there was, there was like a period of time where essentially. Most evenings and then weekends I was up at the studio because like I can only do test batches when the rest of the staff is outta the way.

So that necessitates me working when they're not there. So oftentimes I would stay after the regular shift to do a test batch. And then, you know, maybe I would go in on Saturday and try to knock out like two versions at least, because every batch takes like three to four hours. 'cause then you have to like.

You have to, I mean, you have to do everything completely from scratch every single time. Clean dishes. 'cause especially if you change the ingredients, like you gotta wash everything. You gotta start all your emulsions over again. Um, so it's a long process and you gotta decide like, what are you doing differently this time?

Like, what's the problem that I had on this batch and how am I gonna try yourself out?

keeping required for that because you probably had to meticulously keep track of like every single formulation and then what you've changed.

Yes, there, there's a whole spreadsheet system that I have where like every version, and that's all, that's the way I've always worked. So that's nothing new in terms of like, that's how I document all of our previous tweaks to other recipes is like I just have, um, a spreadsheet with a lot of different pages to it.

And so you can like literally chronologically go back through. All of the different versions of the recipe because if I don't keep really good notes, then I'm likely to duplicate. Like, I like, oh, I had the same idea like three months ago, and I can actually, I'm just wasting time. Yeah, yeah. 'cause I can definitely be a little bit of like an absent-minded scientist, you know?

Like I, I fit that profile. Um, so, and then like, then there's also the, like that crazy handwritten notes that end up on the paper. Batch sheets. 'cause like I have my computer all that's all organized pretty much. And then I'll take like the printouts down with me and then I make notes as I make changes.

So there's like a whole integration. Yeah. That has to happen. But, um, it's, sunscreen is one of the biggest minefields I feel like, for people with sensitive skin. So like I, these days I come at everything. I started off like in the green beauty industry, you know, concerned about toxins and things like that too, which is like, that was.

Forefront on everybody's mind and you're a toxins lawyer, so that's a big deal for you. I kind of come at things more from like, I, I'm, yes, I'm thinking about toxicity, but I'm also primarily thinking about skin irritation. Um, and like how the skin is actually gonna like it. Um, because again, kind of like organic is just one step on the way to regenerative, um, toxin free is just one step on the way to effective.

And also like, you know, skin, um, innate like, so that you're actually providing things that the skin knows what to do with. And, um, sunscreen especially is a real problem for people with sensitivities. So even say, like, say there's no concerns about like, UV filters that are chemical based, like, right. Even if you're a person that's like, yay, I think they're fine.

We don't even have to debate. All that fun stuff, but like there are plenty of people that do that. They're like, this is fine. I'm gonna use this so great. If it's fine and you're gonna use it, wonderful. But there are plenty of people that their skin will literally freak out if they put a chemical UV filter on it.

I am one of those people. And then there's also additives and other things hidden in a lot of sunscreens that can also cause problems.

immediate melasma,

Oh yeah. Yeah.

I have ever. This is like pre me knowing better. So we're talking a long time ago, and I grew up in Arizona where we used to put like baby oil on our bodies and layout. That's a whole other story for another time. But when I started getting serious about SPF, I didn't know anything.

I wasn't who I am now. And so I would use chemical sunscreens because you just go to the store and you buy

Alright. What's on the shelf? Yeah.

Melasma, like I like immediate. Like literally the next day I would wake up and wash my face and be like, why do I

Why spots?

of brown all over my face? Like immediate.

Yeah. I think that for some of us, our bodies are the ultimate truth tellers. There are people who bodies are maybe resilient enough to overcome some of the effects of. You know, the compounds that they're putting on themselves. And so they may think like, oh, it's no big deal. Um, there, there are downsides to being a sensitive or reactive person, but then there's also upsides in the sense that like your, your body, I always try to think of it as that, like my body is my friend and it's telling me things that I need to know.

So if, and it's like, I don't like this. Um, and it's, you know, your body was giving you an immediate sign that it was like, something is different. You know, we are not sure about this, or this is, this is how we're reacting to this. And then you have to go like, is this really right for me? And um, so I try to think of it as a benefit, um, in some ways.

That my body is communicating with me and then it's my job to listen. So, um, sunscreen especially is one of those products that can be a really huge problem for people that have very sensitive skin because everything from the fragrances to the emulsifiers, to the propylene glycol to, you know, the UV filters.

It could all cause problems. Um, so people's skin can react and breakout. I get breakouts if I use things with silicones in them. And even a lot of mineral sunscreens these days have a lot of silicones in them because people like the way it makes the mineral spread and, you know, theoretically it helps the skin retain more moisture, except it really doesn't, like there's more data coming out on silicones, like they actually disrupt the skin barrier.

Like they, they completely disrupt the lipid structure in your skin, which there wasn't. Evidence of before, but there is now. And I was like, yep. My skin was ahead of the game. My skin always hated it. Um, so I would tell people I, yeah, my,

I think that's the benefit of people being in tune with their bodies

yeah, absolutely.

who really listen to their intuitions, people who really look at their bodies and pay attention to how it's reacting to things. A lot of people just go through their life go through their day and they, they're, they're just so busy that they're not attuned to what's happening.

But, so I think that paying attention, what is my skin telling me? What is my body telling me? How is this making me feel? Those those things are things that we can slow down our life and pay attention to.

Yes, absolutely. I think it's one of the most valuable things that you can do because you will get critical information about how you can best. Live your best life, basically, if you are listening, because illness is the ultimate result. Like I just happen, you know, if you don't listen to the warning signs or you don't pay attention to what it's informing you of, whether it's like a nutrient deficiency or you're just under too much stress or whatever, like learning how to live in your body is one of the greatest life lessons and.

I do feel fortunate that like, you know, I feel like I've gotten somewhere with that process in my midlife here. I'm not gonna claim perfection edit by any means because perimenopause is like a whole new fun journey.

a whole new ball game. I

I'm just like, wait, uh, what's going on? Um, so yeah, that's, that's a whole new process of like being like, okay, here's where we're at.

Uh, but um, in terms of, you know, personal care stuff, yeah, your skin's gonna tell you very quickly whether it likes something or not. I was talking to one of our aestheticians the other day and she was like, so I think my clients have gotten, like, bored with, they're purchasing some other stuff right now.

They've stopped purchasing the glioma as much, and I can tell because their skin doesn't look as good. And I was, you know, and I was just like, like, you know, people do need to like, but they get kind of more addicted to beauty as this confection kind of, or, yeah, or just like the exci, whatever's exciting or fun.

chasing it. I think that's human nature.

yeah.

to co, to combat that.

Yeah. So I mean, for me, I wanted my, I approach recipe formulation in a much more like timeless. Like, I wanna put the work in, I wanna formulate something that is really good at what it does, and then I wanna leave it alone for like, maybe forever. Um, like I'm not looking to have like a new recipe every single year.

I do love formulation, but I just don't think we need that all the time because the skin really hasn't changed that much since we were cave people. The skin is the same. It's the shit that we're doing to it that is different. And that's causing all these different effects that now we're needing new solutions to.

So I do, you know, consider modern lifestyle, but realistically our skin is biologically a lot the same as it has been for thousands of years. Do we actually need a new thing every two months or every year even, or every two years? No, we really don't. Um, we might need, um, rhythmic products that address seasonal changes and hormonal changes and lifestyle changes and things like that, but.

I just don't think that, like newer is always better. Um, so I try to use the best of science and traditional wisdom in formulation and that's really what I tried to bring to the sunscreen recipe as well. Um, because, you know, we are using like a very, um, quality milled zinc oxide that does look transparent on skin, but then we're combining it.

we just stop there? Hold

Yeah.

That's, so important because people really hate to be white casted.

Oh yeah.

They absolutely, they're like, okay, Wendy, we hear you. We're gonna give up the UV filter. It's fine. But can we find a zinc oxide that it doesn't go on like a piece white. And so there is like this race of like sunscreen companies trying to, and that's why they put in a bunch of silicones, right?

So like, have it spread. Um, so what you said about your zinc oxide and

Yeah,

chose that option.

so the zinc oxide that we're using is like milled to a particle size that is non nano, but is able to look translucent on skin. Um, and that's a very specific particle size. Um, because if you go too big, um, you're gonna see it. And if you go too small, then you've got people worried, which, I mean, I've also done some research on like nanoparticle, zinc oxide, and it's actually not the health threat that people think it is.

Um, but you get all that consumer concern. So there is a very specific type of particle size. Um, and it's right around like that 100 to 200 nanometer. Um. Particle size that you see, like the effect that people want. And also it's how you blend it in. It's, um, the combination of that with the other ingredients.

So like we've, um, included a base of botanicals. So like there's also a certain amount of SPF that you can expect to get from every percentage of zinc oxide. So you probably also come across sunscreens that like, you know, the benzoyl salicylate has become kind of ubiquitous in the sunscreen world because it allows people to put in less syn.

just, just did a podcast

butyl? Octal. Salic. Excuse me.

Yeah. My dog wants in. Gimme one second to let him in.

No problem.

Come here buddy. Um.

So yeah, butyl, butyl, octal, salic. I.

Beautiful, beautiful Octa cell. I just did a podcast episode on it. Um, and I had a couple really clean companies get really upset with me and message me and wanna send me research on how it's like, not really as bad as I made it out to be. And I said, it is a, you are, you are listing it in your inactive formulation, but it is a active UV chemical.

And as far as I'm concerned, that's fraud.

Yeah, I mean.

it may be legal, it shouldn't be.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. And it's partly just because the FDA is so far behind, I don't anticipate they will catch up anytime soon, unfortunately. Um, so yeah, I mean, they're just very behind. So they're following the legal regulations in the United States, and you, you legally could not list it in the active ingredient section because it's not considered an active UV filter.

It is in Europe, from my understanding. Um, so yeah. I mean basically that has become the way, and we did actually, so the value of me actually formulating this and understanding how every ingredient and it works is that we were able to avoid having that added If I was just some regular person and I went to like, or a regular brand owner, I didn't know how to like formulate something this complicated and I would go to a manufacturer.

They would come at me with their expertise, quote unquote, and their lab chemist, 'cause like the first manufacturing company I went to, they are a certified organic facility. Um, you know, we talked about everything. I was like, I, I have a recipe. I would like you to make it. They were like, okay, great. Pay the $1,500 deposit for your sample fee and blah, blah, blah.

The first sample that they sent me, they veered completely off course, like they used a totally different emulsification system. They added the butyl lactate, and then they were like. Well, we just know you're not gonna hit SPF 30 without it. And I was like, uh, you changed my recipe without my permission.

So this is a big note. Like, we're not gonna work like this. I was like, you need to produce another sample and you need to do it my way. Um, and they,

that this story was a one-off,

yeah.

you working with as many brands

It's bad.

as I do. This is rampant in the manufacturing industry. Um, and it's sad. And it's sad and I actually have had brand owners contact me and say, here's my original formulation. This manufacturer made me change to this because they said their chemists, their experts, their formulators said that this was bad for X, Y, and Z and this was better and this yada, yada yada.

And their original formulas were beautiful and had they just made what they, but these manufacturers wanna save money, and they have these formulas that they have on auto repeat. And the more people they can stuff into those you know formulations, the more money they can make. And so brands are being tricked.

Yeah, absolutely. And, and I mean this is why like you really have to have your thinking cap on when you go to deal with an outside manufacturer. And I do feel blessed that I, from the very beginning was like, we're gonna make our own stuff now. It has been kind of a pain in the, took us at moments and it certainly means a lot of investment in space, in people.

Um, you know, like it's more complicated for me to grow than it is for a lot of other companies. 'cause like another company could just, if they have their recipe all set up with their manufacturer, they can just go and be like, I would like 25,000 units this time instead of 5,000. And the manufacturer will go great.

You know, more money for everyone. And they'll just like make them all up and it's their facility. They get to handle all the logistics of all that. For me, I have to go. Uh, okay. How many people do we have hired and like, how many people do we have trained and do we have enough herbs? And like, you know, it's just a much more intensive process for me to scale.

I don't, I don't mind it, you know, overall there are moments when I'm like, why did I do it this way? And then I'm like, no, I know exactly why I did it this way.

Yeah. There was a reason. There was a reason why you did it that way.

Yes. And I'm constantly reminded that by our clients, you know, when I hear about the results that they're getting from the products.

But yeah, I mean, these lab chemists and if, and if you, they will gaslight the living hell out of you. Um, 'cause these people, like by the time we ended our conversation, the sales rep at this place was trying to con, he, he was like, well, you have 40% oil in your formulation and we're gonna need a stronger emulsification structure.

I was like. I was like, what part of this recipe do you think is oil? Because sir, like you cannot tell oil from water if you are looking from like literally the sales rep did not know he had the whole formula in front of him. He could not tell the difference between oil ingredients and water ingredients.

I was like, this is terrifying that you are here overseeing like drug products and things like this is, I was like, you're so in conferencing.

can you hold on one second? 'cause my dog's barking so loud that my mic's picking it up. Hold on.

Yeah.

Okay,

Yeah. So, I mean, just,

10 seconds or

yeah. So I mean he, in our final conversation, he was. Trying to tell me why the formulation he didn't think was gonna work. And he was describing that he thought it had 40% oil in it. And I took a look at, I was like, sir, what do you think is water and oil in this formulation? Because there is not 40% oil in this.

Formulation. Um, and so the fact that a sales rep at an FDA related, like they produce drug products, they produce lots of skincare every year, did not, could not tell the difference between, like looking at my formulation, they had made samples already. He did not know what was oil and what was water. I was like, this is such a basic

Yeah, it's basic.

piece of knowledge that I was like, you have a terrifying level of.

Incompetence going on. Um, and these folks were absolutely trying to convince me that I could not hit my SPF without the butyl octal salicylate. And I had already been producing test batches for a long time. I had sent those out for initial screenings. 'cause I, I have a connection to. Um, a sunscreen testing lab that will do like just a single person if we want them to.

So like the, the real testing involves doing a group of 10 people. It is pretty expensive. You would not wanna do that unless you're really ready. Um,

had a final, final, yeah.

right. Yeah. So, but I use, like, I'll do a group of like one to three people once I'm pretty sure I'm getting what I want or like, as an initial screening to say, Hey, where is this at?

Um. And then the, the other benefit is that like, you know, when you're using a base of botanicals, um, and like really good quality oils to support the skin that works in conjunction with the zinc oxide to really support the skin's resilience and you just get a better result overall. And a lot of sunscreens really are a very, like neutral base.

Um. With then just the UV filter added in. And for chemical sunscreens, that's for a good reason and that's because the chemical filters really do interact with like a lot of stuff. So it's very complicated. Formulating a chemically based sunscreen for mineral sunscreens, you don't have nearly as much interactivity going on.

So it's a lot easier to fortify it with, um, botanicals and other actives that can really support the skin well. Um, because UV exposure is a stressful situation for skin. You wanna provide things that are gonna help it with that stress. Um, so our goal was also to formulate something that would not only be non-irritating, but that would actively help, um, keep the skin in good condition, fight irritation.

Um, so that's the reason that things like ecto in are in there. And then we provided our own sourced ingredients, and then we're also producing our own. Unique, um, herb extract of Biot to blend of, um, Gott cola, Mullan leaf, and Ginkgo Biloba in a sesame seed oil base that's going into the product. So there's a unique ingredient that no other brand can use because we created our own extraction process for that.

Um, so there's just a whole lot of levels of labor and intention that went into the recipe that, um, I mean, and not every brand is in a position to do. Like we are extremely lucky. I was able, you know, that we were at the stage of our business that we were at because it is very expensive, um, to release a sunscreen.

And so I was able to go and get like a line of credit. With a local bank, um, based on our inventory and things like that. So that then, and then we, we spent a lot of money getting this made because it's worth it. Like that's the thing is like there is nothing else like it.

Amazing. Um, it's called photonic. You sent me one. I love it. I've been wearing it on my face out on the lake. It, it goes on so nice and it, the first thing that I noticed was it, it wasn't like the same like that hinky feeling where it's like that stiff feeling when it goes onto your face.

It's the first time I've ever tried a sunscreen that doesn't give me that feeling on my skin.

I worked really hard on getting, like that was the, but

love it 'cause you kind of solved like the biggest complaint that people have. They want the mineral zinc oxide, they just don't like how it feels on their skin or how it like doesn't blend in.

And it's also really hard to get off.

yeah. I've totally had to get on clothes and had to like specifically wash those areas of clothes. There's even, like if you, we were doing keyword searches and there's, um, like people search a lot for how to get sunscreen out of clothes and off. There was even a search result that was like, how do I get it out of my car?

So I guess somebody had like a big spill in their car. Um, and that's got searched more times than you might think. Uh, because probably like the heat, I bet something exploded. But anyway, yes, like zinc can be a definite beast. It's the most effective UV filter overall for both UVA and UVB. Um, it's like healthy for your skin.

There's really no complications, like you're gonna get all the actions you want.

Yeah. It's the safest, most effective. It's what I, it's what? I use. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, but then the, if people don't like how it feels, um, and they don't like how it looks, they're not gonna use it. I

And you know, convenience is a big thing. My biggest thing is mom's like, Wendy, I need a spray. And I'm like, Nope, doesn't exist.

Yeah. No, I mean, and that's what really,

project, Julie, if you

uh, aerosolizing Minerals is just like a really bad idea overall.

bad idea and you don't have to aerosolize them. I have seen a couple companies that are just literally making like a

Like a pump spray. Yeah.

Like a pump spray, but they're making it, um, you know, it doesn't, it's not that thick, like they're just trying to make it more liquidy, which again, with the zinc oxide is a very hard

That's gonna be, yeah, because it's gonna tend to settle, like in a, in a liquid base like that, the more liquid you make it, the more questionable emulsification ingredients you're gonna have to add.

I know it's not easy. It is. It's like you, you literally need a PhD in chemistry to like figure out, and you know, the consumer doesn't know that. The consumer is like, how come somebody can't make this product like this? Right? They don't, they don't know. They just know they want the convenience of what it's gonna be like as an end user.

So.

Yeah. Yeah. Well I think the chemical sunscreen world probably got like, gave people the idea that this should be possible. Um.

because that's what we all used for the last decade or two. And so we think that sunscreen is supposed to just be clear like a lotion and go right into your skin

Yeah.

have any, I mean, we've been, I don't wanna use the word I was just about to use, well, I sharp, manipulated by the UV sunscreen industry to think that that's normal, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Julie, this has been fun. I love hearing about brands that are doing things the right way, and. Just really amazing. I love that you formulated this yourself. I love that you tackled to do it an SPF in-house, because that is not an easy thing to do. I actually know a couple brands that have formulated their own in-house, but they don't sell 'em as sunscreens because it's too hard to go through the process.

The FDA, the approval, the like, then it has to go to a, a specific facility that the FDA has said is approved to create. So like it's this whole thing.

Yeah.

you did the hard work. You did the hard work for everyone and you created something that I just know, especially people with sensitive skin. I mean, really I think everyone would love it.

It's just an incredible formula. But if you have sensitive skin and sunscreen, your skin does not like it. I highly, highly, highly recommend you guys go into the show notes and click the link that I got down there and go try the boma photonic 'cause it's really great.

I am so glad that you think so, and we definitely hope that it reaches lots more people because we want, I mean, like, I'm a pale person. I know I need sunscreen and there's plenty of other people out there that wanna have safe sun exposure. And, um, a, a little is fine, but a lot is a problem. And so we wanna help you make that a good experience for your skin and body and, and in all kinds of ways.

So, you know, no irritation. And getting your, getting your raise in a good, healthy way,

Yeah. it into everybody's hands, okay? So the next time you create something amazing, you're gonna come back and we're gonna talk about it, right?

that would be great. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I would love that. All right, Julie, have a great rest of your day. Take care.

Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on.

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