In this engaging episode of the Daily Bible Podcast, the hosts dive into the book of Numbers, discussing its Hebrew title 'In the Wilderness' and the significance of the census and organization of the Israelite tribes. The conversation also veers into light-hearted personal anecdotes, including one host's journey of discovering their Jewish heritage and family activities. They highlight the importance of understanding biblical numbers, addressing potential issues with the numbers in the text, and proposing interpretations to ensure a consistent reading of the Bible. The episode emphasizes the centrality of the tabernacle in the Israelite camp and draws parallels to modern life, encouraging listeners to make Christ central in their homes. By exploring how ancient Israel's organization around the tabernacle can inform our spiritual lives today, the hosts offer valuable insights and practical advice for maintaining a God-centered focus. Don't miss their humorous and relatable storytelling and the meaningful spiritual applications they bring to the discussion.

00:00 Introduction and Greetings

00:57 Personal Anecdotes and Surprises

01:14 Weather and Daily Life

02:20 Family and Sports Updates

03:20 Introduction to the Book of Numbers

04:39 The Census and Its Implications

10:54 Camping Arrangements and Symbolism

14:12 Concluding Thoughts and Prayer

15:11 Outro and Podcast Information

Find out more about Compass Bible Church.

Learn more about our Bible Reading Plan.

Questions or Comments? Email us podcast@compassntx.org

Hey, everybody.

2

Welcome back to another edition

of the daily Bible podcast.

3

Hello and Shalom.

4

Yes.

5

Shalom.

6

Why are we shaloming?

7

Is it because we're in

the book of numbers now?

8

No, no, I'm Jewish.

9

Oh, yeah.

10

I don't know if you remember this.

11

That's right.

12

I did the 23 and me and it showed that

I am very small percentage of Jewish and

13

we don't even need to discuss the number.

14

We just need to know that it's the fact.

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I am Jewish.

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I'm probably from the tribe of Judah.

17

Okay.

18

And I just, you're a lot of

other things too, I imagine.

19

And yet I don't hear you talk about the

other things that you are important.

20

No, no.

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Same way that you talk about being Jewish.

22

Sure.

23

I'm the other things too,

but it's like I don't know.

24

I don't, I don't like to.

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Play the card too hard, you know, I

just want people to know that i'm jewish

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You're part of the the priesthood of god.

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You're the the people for his own

I suspect a couple judeites and

28

a couple levites probably married

and eventually down the line the

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gomez family arrived here We are.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, just like god Just like god.

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Yeah.

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Yeah Evidently, well, there we go.

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Hey.

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Yeah.

36

Good.

37

Yeah.

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No, I we're We're not I don't

know where I was going with that.

39

You, you were going somewhere.

40

Where are you going with that?

41

No, I was going to say, I have

a special surprise that I have.

42

I forgot today.

43

Yes.

44

That I just, I can't wait

to share it with you guys.

45

It's, it's special and I got it

for my birthday and I think it's

46

going to make me a better podcaster.

47

That's my, my suspicion, at

least for part of the Bible,

48

a better student of the Torah.

49

That's for sure.

50

I think so.

51

Yeah.

52

Yeah.

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Hey, we were talking about it today

as we're recording it Saturday.

54

As you guys know, we're recording

a little bit earlier, but man,

55

it's nice outside and it's still

like 40 something out there.

56

That's how you know you've acclimated.

57

Yeah.

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When 40 degrees is like,

wow, it's really nice out.

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That's how, you know, you're

no longer in California.

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Oh man.

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This last week was brutal.

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I love cold weather, but even I had

this last week, I was like, I'm over it.

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It's too cold.

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Well, it was stands to reason if

we have it for long enough, we'll

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feel like, oh man, 15 degrees a day.

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It's really nice outside.

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Let's go and play.

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Yeah.

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Pass.

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Well, as long as there's no wind, the

wind chill is what feels the worst.

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If you don't get wind,

it's actually not too bad.

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And that's why today is so

nice because there's no wind.

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No wind.

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I went to the gym today.

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I was going to go run on the

treadmill and I walked in and

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you're flexing on us right now.

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Yeah, I am.

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Everybody and their mom

was on the treadmill.

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So I was like, okay, well, I guess there's

no treads and I don't want to actually

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lift weights because that's not who I am.

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So you need to start doing that.

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I do.

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I just do it at home.

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Anyways.

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So I walked back outside and I was

like, actually, it's not too bad.

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So I went for a run outside.

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Wow.

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On Preston road.

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Nope.

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In my neighborhood.

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In your neighborhood.

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Yeah.

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All right.

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Passed by some other people running.

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Yeah.

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On your left?

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No.

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On your left.

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On your left.

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Don't you do it!

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Yeah.

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Anyways.

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So it's a, it's a beautiful day.

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Baseball's back.

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My, my son Luke is playing baseball.

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My son John just finished at basketball.

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Wow.

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Sports fam.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Kind of the four boys, one, one.

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And my daughter made

the tennis team, dude.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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Annie made the tennis team.

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Good for her.

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She did.

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Yeah.

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What a rocket, Annie.

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Yep.

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So you should make cards for

the, for the season of life.

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That'd be fun.

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You know, you get a picture,

put it in a baseball card.

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That's always fun.

125

I've never done that, but now that

I say that out loud, I might do it.

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Cause that does sound cool.

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Get a picture, put it in the baseball.

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So you know how you can like

a, it's like an Etsy project.

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You can make a baseball card of your kid.

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Yes.

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Put their stats on the back

and all the fun things.

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Yes.

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You should do that.

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Okay.

135

Yeah.

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Surprising.

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There we go.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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When I was growing up, it was

the, the big deal was you got your

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pictures taken with your baseball

team and then you could buy the sports

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illustrated cover version of it.

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Oh, that's cool.

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So it would read sports illustrated

and then you'd be the cover athlete.

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That's pretty fun.

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That was fun.

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You can still do that.

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I thought it was fun.

149

You should do that.

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We, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, we would do a lot of other

things if we had less kids.

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Yeah, but I think that all the

time Yeah, when we multiply it by

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five, we're like, yeah Never mind.

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Yeah Yeah.

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Anyways, hey, let's jump

into numbers brand new book.

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Let's do it for us Numbers is what

your English Bible reads and it's

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from the Septuagint title, which is

arithmoid, which is, you probably

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hear the word arithmetic in there.

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It's a Greek word and it

points to the numbers.

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And we draw that from the census that are

census size since cease, since he sees

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since I, that are taken since I sent it in

a season in, in chapters one through four.

163

And then also in chapter 26, but a lot of

it is not necessarily dealing with that.

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I think you brought this up.

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Just tongue in cheek on a recent

episode, you said that the Hebrew title.

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So tell us a little bit about the Hebrew

title for this book and why maybe that's

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the better title for us than numbers.

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Well, they call it in, in the wilderness.

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And then of course it draws from the fact

that you spend a lot of time in this book,

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looking at how they interact with one

another and the Lord in the wilderness,

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it's all their wilderness journeys.

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You're going to find out where they

failed, where they didn't do well.

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There's a couple of bright spots.

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But largely you're reading about

their journey through the wilderness.

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This is where God judges them

because of their obstinance.

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And that's primarily

what the book is about.

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So I understand why we call it

numbers and it certainly fits.

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There's a census to Sensei that, that

govern major sections of the book,

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but it stands to reason that that's

not really the theme of the book.

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It's just kind of the background,

the context, but the numbers are,

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they do matter, they are important

and they're kind of problematic.

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We've kind of breached

this before PPJ, but let's.

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This dialogue and discuss some of the

options when it comes to reading our

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Bible and walking away with these numbers.

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These numbers seem problematic.

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For, for, for some close Bible readers,

if you're reading your Bible closely and

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carefully, the numbers might be alarming.

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Why might that be the case?

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Yeah.

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Well, if you look in, in the count

totals come in, so 20 through 46 of

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chapter one, they're going through

and basically what's happening here in

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the opening chapters, they're taking.

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A census account of all of

the military aged males.

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They want to know who's going to be able

to go to war if they need to go to war.

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And at the end of that, they come

up with the total being 603, 550.

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That's a number similar to what

we've read before in the book of

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Exodus, as far as those that came

out of Egypt with the Israelites.

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And so that's a massive number.

199

When you consider these

are just military aged men.

200

These are not, this is not

the total population now.

201

And so if you take that number and you

extrapolate out what that would look like.

202

I think I saw somewhere, somebody

said that would mean the average

203

Israelite woman would have had

over 20 children which is enormous.

204

Well, compared to, yeah, the firstborn

situation, which we haven't got to yet,

205

but where the Levites were substituted.

206

Yeah, so there, there's a problem there.

207

Yeah, that's an issue.

208

What else?

209

And then just the idea that, that Israel

was said to be one of the smaller nations.

210

And so the Israelites, it was said that

there were others in the promised land

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more numerous or greater than they.

212

And, and so some of it is we have to

define terms and it's difficult for us

213

to define the term of what is, what is

meant by these nations were greater versus

214

what is meant by these nations were was

smaller or less significant because you

215

can take that a couple of different ways.

216

Sure.

217

But when you think about if Israel is

2 million people and there were nations

218

larger than that within the promised land,

the promise land is not a large area.

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Israel geographically

is not a large space.

220

And so you run into problems of

going, how could the land sustain

221

that many people in In that region.

222

So that's another big issue.

223

There's just accounting for that.

224

Yeah.

225

Scripture says that they

are fewest in number.

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I think Deuteronomy says

that if I'm not mistaken.

227

So that seems to be an issue given

the numbers that we have here.

228

And also given the fact that we have

a little bit of information about

229

how large those peoples were at that

point in time, if they're fewest

230

in number at about 2 million people

total, well, then it, then you start to

231

ask, well, then how large were there?

232

They're, they're, They're neighbors

to the North Southeast West and you

233

start to say, okay, this probably

is not what's happening here.

234

So good Bible readers.

235

It's in your ESV You'll see some

options here in your ESV study Bible.

236

Yeah, I don't know if dr.

237

MacArthur does anything on that side

He probably doesn't deal with that.

238

But I have an ni ni V What's it called?

239

Systematic theology study Bible

something like that Anyway, it also

240

offers some approaches to how Bible

reading works Scholars who are

241

conservative, who love their Bibles and

agree that God could do these things.

242

It's not a matter of whether he

could have sustained them for two

243

for 40 years, 2 million people.

244

But the answer, the question

is, what does the Bible tell us?

245

Right.

246

That's the question.

247

We're not Questioning inerrancy or

not questioning infallibility, we're

248

saying, what is God telling us in

his inerrant and infallible board?

249

And that's a fair question.

250

Given what we know here and what

scripture says about itself,

251

they're fewest in number, and

yet they're 2 million in number.

252

Yeah.

253

Well, what are we working with here?

254

So what do you tend to land on when it

comes to dealing with these numbers?

255

How do you approach them?

256

I, I don't know if I can

embrace the 2 million number.

257

But, but we're, we're tied because

there's a reason why there's not another

258

solution that's common out there.

259

Well, real quick, everything

provides difficult.

260

Can you just touch on

a few other solutions?

261

I know one of them is saying

this, these numbers are symbolic.

262

They're, they're symbolic numbers.

263

They're meant to

communicate something else.

264

And so you offer gematria, which

is ascribing certain Meanings to

265

each number and saying, Oh, look,

this number corresponds to this,

266

this number corresponds to that.

267

That gets dangerous.

268

Obviously.

269

There's also another way of looking

at it in terms of it's numerical, but

270

it's also associated with astrology,

not astronomy, not astrology.

271

Yeah.

272

Wrong one.

273

Astronomy.

274

I forget how that one works, but

there's an, so the looking at

275

numbers and saying they're not,

they're not, They're not literal.

276

They're symbolic.

277

Right.

278

And then another option

is that they're hyperbole.

279

They're meant to be hyperbolized.

280

They're meant to signify

something by their hyperbole

281

to showcase God's faithfulness.

282

That's another option.

283

Of course, taking them literally

a lot of scholars will do that.

284

I think that's how the

ESV study Bible lands.

285

They say, we're just going

to say, this is, this is it.

286

Yep.

287

Right.

288

The LF that's another one.

289

Yeah, yeah.

290

The word thousand can

also mean tribe or clan.

291

And I think when we talked about this

in Exodus, I referenced in your faith

292

life study Bible, which if you have

a faith life account is free for you.

293

Faith life being the

parent company of Logos.

294

You can get that.

295

You can get that.

296

Download the app.

297

It's really good.

298

It's a great study Bible.

299

I, I'm, it's one of my best

resources and it's free and it

300

gives me access to other resources.

301

It leads me to other resources,

which I also find valuable as well.

302

Right.

303

They've got an article and

it's connected to this verse in

304

numbers verse 46 in chapter one,

which has that 603, 000 in it.

305

It's the same article I referenced

earlier in the book of Exodus

306

written by Michael Heiser.

307

He talks about some

proposed solutions there.

308

And one of them he mentions is

that the word thousand in Hebrew

309

LF can also mean tribe or clan.

310

So rather than reading 603, 000

people, it's 603 tribes or clans.

311

And I, that one's probably the

one that's the most palatable for

312

me because I feel like that one.

313

still allows for a pretty safe and

rigid literal reading of the text

314

rather than saying, well, this is

hyperbolic, or they were trying to

315

demonstrate something dealing with

the stars or anything else like that.

316

I think that one still allows us

to read the text and hold to a

317

plain reading of the text, but

just question, okay, does this mean

318

clans or does this mean thousands?

319

And so if it's clans, well, then you

can deal with a number that's Less than

320

two million people by quite a lot if

it's thousand that's when we we get

321

into trouble Yeah, man, that's it's and

it's hard to wrap your mind around this

322

because we're not ancient Israel The

ancient Israelite mindset is not ours.

323

We're looking at the text in 2025

after the scientific revolution the

324

Industrial Revolution We have just we

have so much more baggage that we bring

325

to this and that means okay We have

to we have to be careful Think the way

326

that God spoke to them and try to the

best we can to put ourselves into their

327

sandals Which takes just so much effort.

328

So I agree from my 2025 vantage point

it seems like okay Maybe the best way

329

is to look at Ella the word for the

thousands and saying maybe God was

330

trying to communicate something else

Yeah, but but when you have numbers

331

like this six hundred three thousand

five fifty, it's it's hard to say.

332

Okay.

333

Well Maybe it's 603 families,

603 elephs tribes with 550 each.

334

Is that, yeah, it's, it's complicated.

335

There's no easy solution to this.

336

It's messy.

337

It's messy.

338

And at the end of the day,

it doesn't change anything.

339

It doesn't change the point, right?

340

It doesn't change point.

341

Doesn't change anything doctrinally.

342

This is not something going, aha,

here's an error in the Bible.

343

Throw your Bible away.

344

It's totally not that at all, but there's

one group that's exempted here, and that

345

is the Levites and they're left out and

we're going to find out that they're

346

left out because they're going to have

a unique role in a specific purpose.

347

But before we get there, which is

going to be tomorrow's episode in

348

number chapter two, we get into the

camping, how these these groups,

349

how these families, how these tribes

would camp around the tabernacle,

350

what that was supposed to look like.

351

And so this chapter details how they were

to set that up, the order in which they

352

were to break it down and set out again,

they were to go out in a specific order.

353

It's not whoever wanted to

go first could go first.

354

Judah was to be the leader.

355

They were to be the first ones out

of the camp and it references here,

356

the standards or the banners under

which each family was to gather.

357

And so those standards or

banners would have borne the

358

family crest for each tribe.

359

And so regardless of our true

numbers, whatever they are,

360

this was a large encampment.

361

And so having these banners set up

would have been super helpful for the

362

average Joe Israelite to go, wait a

minute, where, where's, where's Joseph?

363

Where's Benjamin?

364

Where's, where, where am I supposed to be?

365

Right.

366

Oh yeah.

367

Over there.

368

Okay.

369

We're over there right now.

370

And so there's an order here

that God is prescribing for his

371

people, even in how they set up

their camp around the tabernacle.

372

And it all concentrates around the

tabernacle to, to what your point was.

373

They're all organized

around the tabernacle.

374

Now let that set in upon you.

375

God doesn't do anything.

376

God doesn't do anything

by mistake or accident.

377

He's intending to communicate something

even by the way that he arranges them.

378

It's, I mean, I don't know

how far you can go and saying,

379

well, look, it's a crucifix.

380

It's a cross of some sort.

381

Is God alluding to the fact that

someday there's going to be a

382

Messiah that draws them all together?

383

Maybe harder to say that for sure, but

at the very least, he's saying central to

384

their identity is the fact that God holds

the worship of Yahweh is central to their

385

existence and their, their standards.

386

Their setup.

387

All reinforces that.

388

What a cool thought.

389

So cool.

390

And it is so applicable

and relevant for us today.

391

Totally.

392

I mean, the temptation, especially

in our area, I mean, let's be honest

393

with ourselves is that, that we take

our relationship with, with God, we

394

take the church and we make it, we set

it up as camping around our family.

395

That the family's at the center and

that that's what the most important

396

thing in my kids activities and

in Our plans and our desires.

397

We're making baseball cards

over these guys, right?

398

Yeah Illustrated covers man people But

it's so easy for us to to put the church

399

on the outside as just something else

that just Is meant to revolve around

400

us just like we put our kids academics

and athletics and everything else.

401

And it's like, Oh yeah, I've

got the church over here too.

402

And that's not God's desire.

403

Acts 2028, Christ died.

404

He shed his blood for the church.

405

He didn't shed his blood

for our kids sports teams.

406

He didn't shed his blood

for our family vacations.

407

He didn't shed his blood for

the zip code that we live in.

408

He shed his blood for the church

and has called us to love the

409

church as the bride of Christ.

410

So yeah, I think there's something

to, to for us to stand up and take

411

note of in 21st century America

about this and say, okay, maybe we

412

should rethink that a little bit.

413

Yeah.

414

Brief suggestion here.

415

I think it would be really good.

416

I'm not a big decorative person,

but I think it'd be really good

417

if our house is all communicated.

418

What is central to our family's

existence now, wherever you live,

419

whoever you are single married family

with kids, without kids, you can still.

420

Put signals and signs in your home, in

your car, anywhere that you exist to

421

say, my life's about this one thing.

422

Make it about Christ.

423

Make sure people know that.

424

Yeah.

425

Speaking of which, I say this

on the podcast so that we

426

get some accountability here.

427

We need to get extravaganza

signs for our yards.

428

Oh yeah.

429

We had those last year.

430

We do.

431

We got to get those ordered.

432

It's Meghan Hatton.

433

Pronto.

434

We also need, I requested signs with

your face on it that say you're invited.

435

I haven't seen those.

436

I don't know what happened to him.

437

I thought you said we ordered a million.

438

I told Kelly, make sure you don't, I

mean, make sure you by no means order.

439

Don't order any of

these millions of these.

440

I don't understand how the could

have been any less clear than that.

441

I don't understand either.

442

So we, yeah.

443

Yeah.

444

So maybe next year.

445

Okay.

446

All right.

447

Well, that's, that's the

opening to the book of numbers.

448

We got a lot in front of us still.

449

We're going to hit tomorrow

into some of the firstborn.

450

We're going to talk about the

redemption of the firstborn.

451

We're going to talk about the

Levites and how all that relates.

452

And so this is a great book.

453

Don't don't lose heart here because

you're looking at a bunch of numbers.

454

Know that this is such a good book for us.

455

It pertains to so much

of the history of Israel.

456

So important for us.

457

So keep, keep with us, keep reading.

458

This is part of the story of God's people

here, and there's a lot for us in it.

459

And so let me pray.

460

And then we'll be done with this episode.

461

God, we pray for that mindset, that

humility to come to the text not in

462

judgment over it, thinking that it's,

it's not entertaining us enough, or

463

it's too confusing for us to gain

anything from this, but to come to the

464

text as living and active, which you

tell us your word is to come to the

465

text as something that's useful for

training us for righteousness, that we

466

might be equipped for every good work.

467

As you tell us in your word, that

it is, And so we want to have

468

that, that mentality, that mindset.

469

So give us the humility to sit under

the tutelage of your word by the spirit

470

as we come to it every single day.

471

We pray this in Jesus name.

472

Amen.

473

Amen.

474

Keep reading your Bibles and tune

in again tomorrow for another

475

edition of the daily Bible podcast.

476

Bye folks.

477

Bye.

478

Speaker: Hey, thanks for

joining us for another episode

479

of the daily Bible podcast.

480

We hope and pray this has been a blessing

to you and your time in the word.

481

If it has, if you would subscribe to

this podcast, leave a comment and

482

share it with some friends and family.

483

That would be awesome.

484

If you need more information about

Compass Bible Church here in North

485

Texas, you can go to compassntx.

486

org.

487

Again, that's compassntx.

488

org.

489

And we'll be back with you

tomorrow for another episode

490

of the daily Bible podcast.