Luke is back and a rare RANGE reporter appearance unlocked! Our split-custody Murrow Fellow who works out of Newport, WA came to talk shop on the pod about rural journalism in a border community. And our City Hall reporter Erin dove in to homelessness statistics and an arrest at council.

Hey, it's Aaron.

2

This week on the pod, Luke and other

Aaron talked to Sophia Mattis Algi,

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who does excellent work for Range and

the Newport Minor, a weekly paper in

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Ponderer County as part of a partnership

with Washington State University.

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What's it like to be a

reporter in such a rural place?

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Sophia fills us in.

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Then Aaron talks about the recent

arrest of an unhoused man at City

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Council and what that says about

behavioral health response in Spokane.

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This is Free Range, a co

production of KYRS and Range Media.

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I'm Luke Baumgarten.

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Remember me?

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It's okay if you don't, it's been a while.

13

I barely remember you.

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Tell me about it.

15

I've been a little bit out of the news

trenches dealing with some business stuff

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the last couple weeks, so it has not

been a particularly fun absence for me.

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You're Kendall Roy era.

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We promised we weren't going

to talk about that publicly.

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I don't know which, I don't know if

I want people in Spokane speculating

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on which Succession character I am.

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But It's not been a particularly fun

absence, but I'm excited to get caught

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back up on all things Spokane and a little

teaser here Pend Oreille County today

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Joining me as you already heard is Aaron

Sellers And we're also joined by Sophia

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Mattis Aldis of the Newport minor and

range welcome to both of you Thank you.

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Hi.

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I feel like between the three of us, we've

really got a Roy siblings dynamic and I'm

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gonna let everybody else guess who's who.

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Sophia, I thought we'd start with you

because Sellers and I have no problem

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talking forever about Spokane stuff,

but Ponderay County, you are part of

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the state legislator created this Murrow

Fellowship, and we applied for it, and

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your colleague, or our, I guess, co

colleagues at the Newport Minor applied

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for it, and we ended up getting an

arranged marriage of sharing you as a, of

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a North County and, or pond Split custody.

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Split custody.

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We're your, we're your weekend parents.

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We really are the weekend parents,

actually, don't you think?

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But you live up in Newport, and

you, I would say you do most of your

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reporting for the Newport Minor,

that's a weekly publication up there.

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A hundred year old publication, or?

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Right.

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Very old.

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Yes.

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It wasn't always called the minor,

but it has been around in some form

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or another since the late 1800s.

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It was probably called like the jack

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Something like that.

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Yeah.

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When did it become the minor?

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Sorry, I'm, I'm, this is a, I'm

already throwing you a curveball.

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Quite all right.

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I can't remember the exact

year, but I think it became the

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miner in the early to mid 1900s.

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Okay, so when, while there

was still mining happening.

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Yes, lots of mining happening.

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Glad it wasn't just a nostalgia rebrand.

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So you live up there and, and

you grew up in like Caldwell

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and Kettle Falls area too.

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So you spent most of your life in the,

in the tri county Northeastern area.

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Is that fair to say?

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Yes.

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So that gig, when did you start?

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When did you actually come on?

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It would have been October of last year.

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Alright, so we're, we're pushing,

we're coming up on six months.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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And how did you get in, I guess you grew

up there, but how did you, cause you,

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the minor wasn't your first stop at small

town northeastern Washington newspapers.

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How did you, how did you get your

start in journalism and what,

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what led you to stick around those

small town papers in the north?

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Oh, good question.

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I don't know how.

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Disgustingly idealistic we want to

get here so disgusting so disgusting.

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Okay, roll around in the mud All right

in that case when I was a little girl

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one of my big idols was Nellie Bly

and so I was hoping for Ida Tarbell.

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That would have been an

excellent one as well, yes.

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And I always thought I

wanted to be three things.

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I either wanted to be a marine

biologist, a ballerina, or a journalist.

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And so, when I got to

be about, 19 years old.

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I had flunked out of college.

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I know I'm painting a

sterling picture of my resume.

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I had no idea what I wanted to do, so

I was forced to move back home, and

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I was working at a stove factory, and

then a former employee at the statesman

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examiner in Colville was quitting, and

he knew that I had written for my school

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paper, so he just gave me the heads up.

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This job is available if you want it.

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I absolutely did want it.

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And so, I had to get my driver's

license and then I just pretty

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much hounded the publisher and

the editor until they hired me.

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I got my driver's license and they came

in and I was like, I'm ready to work now.

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They were just going to hire me.

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I feel like that's the best proof of your

capability as a job, as a journalist.

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Because half of our job is just

bothering people until they say yes.

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Until they talk to us, yeah.

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That's fair.

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That's a good point.

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Exactly.

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So, off to a pretty good start there.

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And then I was, I was basically there

for all of my twenties and a little

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bit in my early thirties, too, until

I got the job at the minor and short

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story long, here we are and it's been

it's been a ride, it's been right.

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So without putting you too

much on the spot here, I think.

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We, I grew up in North Spokane County

and so I've very, and I've lived in

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Spokane proper for the last 20 years.

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So a lot of what I'm been, was reflecting

on when I was thinking about chatting

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with you is 20 year old knowledge.

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I come from a place that's a little

closer to Spokane than you, and I still

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feel like the place I grew up spends

a lot of time thinking about Spokane

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and its relation to Spokane, and I

don't really feel like Spokane thinks

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much about Chattaroi, Washington.

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You feel the same way like folks up in

Ponderay County, how important is Spokane

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in the cultural life of Ponderay County?

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Is it just, the closest Walmart and

Costco or is there, is there more to it?

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I know you come into

Spokane pretty frequently.

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And then the other side of that, like,

how do you, what do you think, the average

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Spokanites stereotypical view of, of

Newport is and how, how accurate is that?

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Very good questions.

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Well, I would say, just in my opinion,

that I think Ponderay County of

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course definitely thinks about Spokane

because I don't have any hard and

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fast numbers, but I do know that quite

a few people from Ponderay County

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commute to Spokane for their job.

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Oh, wow, yeah.

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And there are some people who, live in

Spokane and they actually commute to

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Newport, or they live at the halfway

point and they commute to Newport.

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Yeah.

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I know growing up, and To

completely reveal the hayseed

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that I still am at heart.

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A trip to Spokane was a big deal.

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It was like, wow, we're going to

Spokane, we're going to the city, yeah!

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And I think that it's, it's been

interesting to see how Spokane has

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changed over the years and to, I think

that relationship between Spokane and

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smaller communities, I don't know, I

can't say what Spokanites think about us,

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but I do think that there is very much a

symbiotic relationship in terms of labor,

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recreation, when, as the weather gets warm

here, we're going to see a ton of people

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coming from Spokane up to Spirit Lake.

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Right.

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And outdoor recreation in the

Ponderay County, North Idaho area.

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What was, well, I'm just curious

what your view on that is now

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that you are a Spokaneite and

you did start out in the country.

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Oh, I mean, I think it is true.

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Like I spent a lot of my, I started my

career as a journalist in, in Sandpoint

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and even before all of the growth

that's happened, like in the Rathbun

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Prairie and stuff, I would choose

to drive through Newport up highway

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two, just cause it was a lot prettier

than driving through, north Idaho.

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I assume more people in Spokane,

especially if you live on the north

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end of Spokane, are taking that

route as opposed to going out I 90.

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So, I mean, my thoughts are like, I mean,

I played against the Newport Grizzlies

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in sports because we were in the same

league and stuff, but It's probably like

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the Safeway is like your last really good

grocery store before you get to Priest

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Lake, or like you were saying Spirit Lake.

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I, I honestly don't know if people

think about it much more than that.

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Now that I'm back, I will say that I

bought some weed in Newport and smuggled

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it into Idaho for a recent little trip

that I took and come get me, suckers.

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And I was really shocked at both, or

not shocked, but I was like, it was a

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really The experience, the dispensary

was really cool, the people there were

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really nice and they were all I was also

like really impressed with the, just the

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community feel that was going on there,

like everybody seemed to know each other,

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and the bud tender had, knew everybody's

by, order by name and stuff, and so, it

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still felt like it had that small town

feel where you know all your neighbors

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and stuff, but that's, I don't know that

I have a much, deeper opinion than that.

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I have a question, and it wasn't

on Luke's list, and I'm sorry, but

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I'm going to go off script anyways.

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I was up in concrete Washington a

couple months ago, which, it's on

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the west side, but it's, I think,

comparably small, maybe smaller.

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And I was flipping through the community

newspaper there that was for sale.

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And I was talking to the person I was with

about oh, the types of stories they were

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covering and how they were covering them.

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And we got the feel that In a

small town paper that relies on ad

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business to survive, that changes

how you can cover things, especially

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when a community is so small.

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It's if you write a piece of investigative

journalism about something messy going

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on, that might include half of your

readers because your town's so small.

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And I guess I'm curious writing for

a paper like the Minor, which I think

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probably is bigger than the Concrete

Area, but What kind of considerations

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do you have that might be different than

writing for like the spokesman or for a

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regional paper that kind of get narrowed

because your audience is so small?

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Or do you think about that at all?

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Yeah.

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That is a very good point.

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I, I do think we think about it, and

we've had a lot of discussions even

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some arguments about how to go about

stories, but the great thing, as you

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both know, when you have an editorial

staff that gets on well and you both

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ultimately have the same end goals,

then you can have those discussions,

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sometimes hard discussions, and if you're

gonna talk about that kind of thing,

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that's the best place to talk about it.

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For the most part, I would say no, it That

advertising does not affect our coverage

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and in a lot of ways it shouldn't.

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Do we have to have conversations sometime

about what is the point of this piece?

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And do we think it's going to?

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Do we think it's going to help people,

or do we think it's going to hurt people?

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Obviously, you don't want to

write anything that purposely

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goes out to hurt anybody.

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But is it truthful, and is it something

that the public has the right to know?

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And Hats off to my publisher, Michelle

Nedved, and my editor, Don Groening,

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because they are, they are at the front.

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If someone has a complaint or is

very, very angry, they're the ones who

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have to meet that and talk about it.

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And the vast majority of the time,

it, it's a, what I would call

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a, It's a fruitful conversation.

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It's a successful conversation.

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I can't think of the last time

where someone just slammed the door

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on us and that was all she wrote.

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But it is something you have to talk

about because yeah, you're gonna, the

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likelihood that you'll be walking down

the street for your morning coffee

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and you're gonna see that person

walking their dog or coming into the

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same coffee shop is super high, so.

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You don't, of course, have to agree about

what the point of the story is but I do

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think you, I do think you need to be able

to explain your editorial process to the

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public, whether they agree with that or

not, that's, that's up for debate, but.

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Yeah, it just triggered something for me.

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I, I, I've been thinking about this a lot

with the work we do and, obviously Sellers

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writes a lot of pretty spicy stuff about.

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In a similar way I feel like the

people who come to Spokane City

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Council are not unlike, the denizens

of a, of a of a a small town.

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at a bus stop the other day.

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Did you really?

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Yeah, and I actually got yelled at at a

different bus stop by a person who was,

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I thought was the same person who had

been yelling at sellers, but it just

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turned out they were doppelgangers.

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Yelling might be a solution.

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talking very aggressively in a

relatively high volume, but I don't

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know that I would put it quite yelling

might be a stretch, I don't know.

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They had strong opinions,

though, about what you wrote.

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Mm hmm.

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They did.

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And I told them I was not on

the clock, and that they could

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talk to me about it later.

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And then they told me not to get

triggered, and I said, I'm sorry,

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I'm not on the clock right now.

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I'm, I'm not discussing whether or

not I'm triggered with you right

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now, because I'm not on the clock.

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Good for you.

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And I don't know if the, my 20 year

old self would be proud of what I'm

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about to say, because I think I was a

little more hard charging back then.

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But I, I, we have thought a lot of,

with the homeless coverage that we do,

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and, and just Some of those include

businesses, some of those businesses

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that have made real mistakes and then

if you write a story that might actually

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take somebody down or, be the end of

their business, I think a, a, a really

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important question to ask is, is the

harm being done and then the harm, and

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then, worth putting in the newspaper

and then and then does reporting on it.

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Cause more harm or does it cause healing

to happen right and it is something

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we think about and I and I actually

think that working for a small town

243

paper is like a master class in that

sort of relational thinking that So

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the trip I was taking that I stopped

off at the dispensary for was up to the

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Sandpoint Reader, which is on the other

end of Botner County from where you

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cover, and it's a, they just turned 20.

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So something about the Spokane region

makes solvent alt weeklies possible

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with, in a way that isn't really possible

anywhere else in America, it seems but,

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I mean, every time I go up to Sandpoint

and talk to those guys who are now

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really, dear friends of mine, it's just

That is a navigation they have to do

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every week among this increasingly,

hyper conservative, the whole county

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is pretty conservative at this point.

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But then a lot of the stuff

that's happening in civic and

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municipal spaces is, these.

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now probably the middle aged children of

former draft dodging hippies in relatively

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constant conflict with people who may

have moved up in the 70s, may have moved

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up two years ago, who live on compounds,

and are, probably have hundreds of pounds

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of preserved meats and canned food.

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There's, it's just It's just the

best estate sales are up there.

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Incredible estates, yeah.

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True, very true.

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I can't actually vouch for that.

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So it's this, and that's

I guess the other piece.

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of this that I wanted to bring in.

265

You're on, you're literally Newport

sits on the Idaho border and it doesn't

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have the sort of benefit of the sort

of big blue dot urban urban Sea of

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Spokane, and people are always I feel

like, especially my Spokane friends,

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pivoting to the last 20 years of my

life, are like, wow, when they talk

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about what's happening politically around

here, nobody everybody acknowledges the

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Aryan Nation, everybody acknowledges

the history of white supremacy,

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everybody acknowledges the neo Nazis.

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But just the way it gets framed in

the in the cultural imaginary, almost,

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is Oh, Idaho's got such wild stuff

happening, it's weird to live near Idaho

274

because Idaho's just getting nutty and

nuttier and nuttier every, every day.

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Growing up in Chattarooga, I, that

was not my experience at all, we were

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talking about this a little bit on the

walk over, what's it like on a border,

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like both living on and reporting

across that border, do you get a sense

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that the, the residents of Priest

River are miles apart from the folks

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that, your neighbors in, in Newport?

280

True.

281

We do joke about that a lot.

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I joke about that a lot.

283

So, Idahoans, please forgive me.

284

But the truth is that I, I

think the, the political vein,

285

so to speak, is very similar.

286

It's just because there are certain things

happening right now in North Idaho that

287

Get more news coverage and rightfully

so because of our political climate and

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what's happening there, but I view it as.

289

If you go to a family dinner, the

Idaho conservatives, the far right

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Idaho conservatives are like the

loud cousin who comes rolling in

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and, let's have those conversations.

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Whether you want to have those

conversations or not over dinner, we're

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going to have them and I'm going to tell

you exactly what I think and da da da

294

da da, whereas a lot of, I feel like,

not all of them, of course, I don't

295

mean to generalize, but, washington

conservatives on the other side, they

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may hold very many of the same beliefs,

they probably do, but they're more

297

like, they're more like, I guess, Maggie

Smith from Downton Abbey, they'll be

298

very proper, and there's protocol,

and there's the way we do things, and

299

then, if you go outside of that, then

they'll have something to say about that.

300

So I would say it's, it's two different

sides of the same coin, and I, I don't

301

know how many people in Idaho listen

to this, so I'm gently digging my grave

302

here with a spade, but I do think that

that ideology, at least it feels that

303

way, has become emboldened over the

last decade and has become much louder.

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In terms of where that's going,

well, that, that remains to be seen.

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Okay, speaking of, you're in a

border community in another way.

306

You are right up against

the Canadian border, right?

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Or pretty close.

308

The county is anyways, yeah.

309

Yeah.

310

How have How have our relations

with our friends up north

311

been in the last two weeks?

312

Have you noticed any shifts?

313

Are there less Canadians coming down

since all of the tariff fighting?

314

Has there been any change in, or

your neighbors, have they changed

315

how they're talking about Canada?

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I think, I think you hit on

something there, Aaron, I think

317

that's a story that we need to do.

318

That's an upcoming story

that's coming down the pipe.

319

I haven't heard any new developments.

320

I know that I had that story a while back

about how the border hours were changed

321

during COVID and that certainly affected

us on this side in terms of tourism.

322

I know that there are Canadians who

do own property up in North County.

323

Hmm.

324

Yeah.

325

So they do come down for

the summer and other events.

326

I'm not sure how things

are going right now.

327

That's an excellent question.

328

We should check in with

our neighbors to the north.

329

I heard anecdotally border crossings

from the US up into Canada.

330

We're getting a lot more

aggressive, like just.

331

I just had a warning.

332

Harder to get through or something?

333

Harder to get through, like if you're

driving up just be prepared for like more

334

questions and more aggressive questioning.

335

That was just like anecdotally

from a couple people.

336

Interesting.

337

But I was curious if you'd

heard anything about that.

338

Just in the last two weeks as

geopolitical tensions have climbed.

339

From the Canadian side.

340

Did you hear they're getting more like

we're getting more harder questions.

341

Yeah harder to get into Canada interesting

interesting It used to seem like it was

342

the, it's been a while since I've been

to Canada, but last time you go there, it

343

seems like on the American side, they're

very stringent, like we have questions,

344

stay in the car, da, da, da, da.

345

That's always been my

experience too, yeah.

346

Yeah, when they're like going

through your stuff in the backseat.

347

And the Canadians are like, hey,

you're, oh, you're here for the weekend?

348

Cool, have a good weekend.

349

Yeah, go to this store, eat this

pie, you'll have a great time.

350

Yeah.

351

Even back when the, the

Drinking age was, in BC, was 18.

352

I made that traditional trip up.

353

Anybody, I feel like, who

goes to college in Spokane.

354

It's a rite of passage, for sure.

355

Once you turn 19, because it

changed to 19 by the time.

356

Yeah, it was, it was 18, so I

did it as a high school kid.

357

When I turned 18.

358

Yeah, I was a college sophomore.

359

And even, even back then, it was like

the Mount, was it the Mounties, I guess?

360

I don't, I don't even know if Canada

has its own border service, or if

361

it's just like a dude on a moose.

362

But it, it was always very chill, even

to the point of oh, a bunch of kids.

363

The Medellin Falls border

crossing, you headin to Nelson?

364

You're gonna, make sure you drink

Molson when you're up there.

365

And that was, like, the totality of it.

366

And then, we got Red the

Riot Act coming back through.

367

But yeah, I am curious.

368

I mean, Just the number of people

you'll bump into around the holidays

369

in Spokane who said they've come

people I've met come, who've come down

370

from Calgary to shop in, in Spokane.

371

Really?

372

Yeah.

373

Interesting.

374

Yeah.

375

A surprising number.

376

And I, so I would assume that it's,

especially since, the Medellin Falls

377

border crossing runs right, is right

in the, the heart of Pendraya County.

378

I would assume it's a, it's a pretty,

maybe a not, it's a, it's a non zero

379

part of your, economy when people are

driving through on their way somewhere

380

else or, or just vacationing in, in

Bonduray County, like you were saying,

381

going to property they might own.

382

Yeah, it's a really, something we

should definitely follow up on.

383

We are going to be running up against

our 20 25 minute break soon, but I

384

want to know, what's your favorite

story you've written since you

385

started your Murrow Fellowship?

386

Ooh.

387

Good one.

388

I, let's see.

389

Probably the story I wrote about after

the executive orders came out from

390

the Trump administration and that

was the 28th and things were so up in

391

the air and people were so confused.

392

Our local homeless youth non

profit they're, they were

393

locked out of their pay account.

394

This is the federal funding, please.

395

The federal funding, excuse me.

396

Yes.

397

They were locked out of their

account, the way they pay their

398

bills, their utilities, everything.

399

That eventually was restored, but

for the first 24 hours there, they

400

were just in absolute stalemate.

401

They couldn't do anything.

402

Oh.

403

Yeah.

404

Yeah.

405

And.

406

Homelessness is, obviously, I think you

guys, there's more obvious examples of it

407

in a bigger city, a bigger municipality,

but because we don't see it as well

408

in rural areas, there's a tendency to

think that it's not really a problem.

409

So, that, that was, I

felt, an important story.

410

To write for someone to write and I'm

I'm glad the way it came together And

411

I was very thankful to the staff at

yes youth emergency services that were

412

so open and so Frank about what they

were dealing with and at the end of

413

the day what their mission was and how

dedicated they were to it So it was

414

a shame It was such a serious issue

because there were so many good headline

415

puns we could have used And it did not

feel appropriate to use any of them.

416

What were some of them?

417

Just one or two.

418

Yes told no by the Trump administration.

419

Oh, because the

organization is called Yes.

420

Yes.

421

Yeah.

422

That's pretty good.

423

That's pretty good.

424

Yeah.

425

Just, it's, yeah.

426

No jokes.

427

No jokes about very serious issues.

428

Yeah.

429

, alright, so this part of the episode,

we're going to Aaron's gonna catch me

430

up on just a smattering of things we can

think of off the top of our head that that

431

I haven't been around for the last couple

weeks, or I've been tangential to, so.

432

I've been doing a lot of reporting and

not a lot of writing, which is not ideal,

433

but it's great for having podcast content.

434

And it does happen sometimes, so,

yeah, we're, uh, it's one of the nice

435

things about being a digital paper

Sophia you guys have a weekly deadline

436

and advertisers to, toodle around.

437

Yeah.

438

Your toodling is like most people's

breakneck speed, though, Sellers,

439

so I'm not super worried about you.

440

So, let's start with, there

was, in January, a man was

441

arrested outside of city council.

442

This is a story we're actively working on.

443

And we're trying to figure out,

again, back from, from that harm

444

reduction lens, it's is this a

story we actually want to tell?

445

Is this a story just about one

person who had an episode and,

446

and the way he was treated?

447

Or does this tell us

something more systemic?

448

Or is, does it shine a light on something?

449

And so it's something we're actively

trying to figure out, which is

450

one of the reasons we're not

going to even mention the person's

451

name when we chat about it today.

452

But you did get some data

that's, it's is this preliminary

453

data or is this final data?

454

This is final data.

455

So just a little backstory and I

want to apologize because when this

456

happened I made some jokes on Twitter.

457

I didn't think it was going

to turn into a serious thing.

458

I like live tweet, right?

459

So yeah, I'm just typing away whenever

something happens in council and

460

it was the last meeting in January.

461

I saw a man in the front row was

like talking pretty loudly during

462

the land acknowledgement that

they do at the top of the meeting.

463

So the meeting just kicks off,

somebody's again, somewhere

464

between talking loudly and yelling.

465

And I look over as I'm like,

writing on my computer, and I

466

notice that he's taken layers off.

467

Like he's, he's taken off his, his

sweater, and at some point his pants get

468

unbuttoned and unzipped, and There was a

security guard over there talking to him,

469

telling him that he had to be quiet or go

hang out in the Chase Gallery, which is

470

an area right outside of Council Chambers,

where if you want to move around, or if

471

you're a reporter who needs to take a

phone call, or if you just want to be

472

noisy, you Overflow for Council Chambers.

473

Yeah, and they like have You know, you

can still see what's going on through

474

the glass, and they've got speakers

so you can hear where they're at

475

in the meeting and what's going on,

but you don't have to be so quiet.

476

So the security guard was trying to get

him to go to that, and I couldn't tell if

477

he was trying to show the security guard

that he didn't have any weapons it almost

478

looked like he was trying to, be like,

oh, I don't have anything on me, yeah.

479

Somebody else thought that it

was just really warm in there,

480

and he was getting rid of his

layers, and was trying to re talk.

481

But his pants were

unbuttoned and unzipped.

482

He was sitting right next to one of

the council member's legislative aides,

483

who was a young woman, and right in

front of another council member's

484

or no, same council member's wife.

485

So, people were a little uncomfortable,

but a council staffer Managed to talk

486

to him, de escalate the situation,

get him to go hang out in the gallery,

487

and just wait for his turn to talk.

488

And I thought that that

was all it was going to be.

489

And the meeting ended with this man

getting not just arrested, but six cops

490

put him into one of those little burritos

and carried him out of the building.

491

And he is still in jail a

month and a week or so later.

492

Almost six weeks later, right?

493

Almost six weeks later.

494

And on the body cam footage,

the security guard asked for

495

him to be trespassed for life.

496

And so I am working on a story

of just like How did we get here?

497

Because almost every city

council meeting I go to, there

498

are people breaking the rules.

499

Sometimes, it is the same person,

every meeting, yelling out of turn, or,

500

saying things loudly under his breath,

or harassing people in the gallery.

501

And he's even been on record in a

local court case as having threatened

502

a staff member at city council.

503

And this guy gets to come

every week with no issues.

504

They let him break the

rules pretty constantly.

505

He just gets a warning to stop for the

day and he still gets to come to council.

506

And another man who is unhoused

shows up within the first ten

507

minutes of the meeting started.

508

He's booted to the chase gallery and in

another half hour he is being dragged out

509

of the building by six police officers.

510

One.

511

And that, I think, the way you

framed it around what, what, what,

512

how the the Overton window of

civil discourse shifts based on

513

people's perceptions of Who you are.

514

and whether you're just angry, or maybe

you're mentally unwell, or you might

515

be on drugs, or something like that.

516

And, and that's, that's

something I definitely want us

517

to think about and talk about.

518

The other thing that I think is

fascinating to me, and this is, let

519

me call back to former Sheriff Ozzy

Konezovich, who's no fan of range given

520

that he used to kick us out of Take us

out of press conferences and stuff but

521

even he would say things frequently

the Spokane County Jail is the second

522

largest mental health facility in

Washington State in terms of the number

523

of people who get, warehoused there

during, either drug related or, or other,

524

bouts of mental illness obviously in

a negative way, and, and once again, I

525

find, it's just, And again, if you're

indigent, you're just gonna stay, if

526

you can't make bail, regardless of,

what you've been charged with, you're

527

more likely to stay in the jail.

528

So now, This person who's, and, and,

the sheriff was pretty transparent about

529

how hard it is, and we've written about

this in the past, how hard it is to get

530

people on their meds when they're in jail.

531

It's obviously a stressful situation

for anybody, so it can exacerbate

532

existing mental illness or episodes.

533

And and now here we are with this,

this dude who, may or may not have

534

been In, in your characterization,

not, not disrupting things much more

535

than other folks in, who are, frequent

flyers at the city council, and now

536

he's been in jail for six weeks, right?

537

So.

538

Yeah.

539

Probably disconnected from meds

and, and other things that,

540

who knows what happens next.

541

Yeah.

542

And I do think that, I have to

imagine, for the council members,

543

there's a difference between a known

quantity and an unknown quantity.

544

For the person I'm thinking of, that

breaks the rules almost every night.

545

This, they've seen him for

years, they know what level he's

546

gonna go to, what to expect.

547

And with this guy, they didn't.

548

But, I mean It is one of those things

where the people that council maybe

549

arguably needs to hear from the most

are the people who are experiencing

550

mental health crises, are the people

who are experiencing being unhoused,

551

the people at the center of these issues

that they're voting about every night.

552

And the council council

staff met this gentleman.

553

at the Spokane Homeless Connect event.

554

It was the very first time the city

council had had a table at this event.

555

And basically, it's like a large room.

556

There's a bunch of tables of resources.

557

And if you are unhoused or low income,

you can show up and you can get

558

connected to a lot of things at once.

559

So there are people there that

will help you replace your ID.

560

People there who will help you figure

out do I qualify for food stamps?

561

How do I get signed up for this?

562

Or If there's a barrier, housing vouchers,

if they're around get you signed up for

563

a library card so that you can use the

internet and maybe apply for jobs or read

564

books, basically just figuring out, trying

to get everybody in the room to address

565

any possible gaps and making it just like

an open welcoming space for people in

566

crisis or on the streets to just come in,

get everything done at once and not have

567

to try to track down a bunch of things.

568

Council had a table there and I've been

told by a council staffer on the record

569

that they met this man who ended up

getting arrested and he told them like oh

570

I have some things I want to share about

my experience and you know he was pretty

571

amped up they said his general demeanor

like both times they encountered him was

572

you know a little frenetic a little keyed

up and it got worse when he saw cops.

573

He seemed to have an aversion to

people in uniform that kind of got

574

him a little riled, but she helped

him get connected to services.

575

She said he told her he went to the

library booth to get a library card

576

so that he could come in and use the

library computers so that he could

577

sign up for a time to speak at council

because you have to sign up to get

578

on the list to testify and they'll

help you do that at the meeting.

579

But if you want to guarantee that

you've spot, you can, you can do it.

580

ahead of time, and he had gone

through like all of these hoops to

581

get signed up so that he could speak.

582

And, one of the things you just kept

hearing, I listened to the whole

583

body cam footage of the arrest, and

he repeats it multiple times No,

584

I'm not going with you, I'm signed

up, I have to speak I'm signed up.

585

He really wanted to stick around

and share, and I still don't know

586

what it is that he wanted to share,

what it was that he wanted to say.

587

Yeah.

588

But he was like invited by council

staff to come down there and talk and

589

share his experience and it wasn't

for a couple of reasons like it His

590

own behavior and also that the setup

is, maybe unfriendly in some ways or

591

not set up for people in distress.

592

Even though that, that's the group of

people that counsel should be hearing

593

from as they make these policy decisions

that are going to impact this guy.

594

Well, and even it's just another reminder

to the like, regardless of what sort

595

of good intentions leadership can have

in situations like this, you have to

596

sort of like, make sure that is like

trickles down to various levels of

597

bureaucracy, whether that's aides, which

who seemed like they did try to get

598

this guy hooked up and able to talk.

599

But then all the way down to, in

this case, cops and stuff as well

600

and security or the secure contracted

security guards who work there.

601

And I think all of the council members

probably have different opinions about how

602

this should have gone down if it happened

correctly, if it didn't happen correctly.

603

And some of the staff members

have thoughts, too, about well,

604

how do we help in the future?

605

Maybe, he seemed to think he needed

to be in the chambers in order to

606

speak when it was his turn, and

that was maybe not an environment.

607

Like, all of the people around, all of

the security guards, the formalness,

608

where you have to be like, quiet.

609

And if it would have been communicated

that he could hang out in the gallery,

610

and then just come in when it's his turn,

like maybe things, there's all of these

611

little things where, you know, maybe if it

would have gone differently, he wouldn't

612

be sitting in jail right now, and I don't

want to say that, because again he was,

613

his pants were halfway off, and he was

yelling over the land acknowledgement,

614

but It had been deescalated.

615

It had been deescalated and

then the cops got called.

616

Like he was just chilling in the gallery

eating snacks, and then the cops show up.

617

So, there's definitely some I've

been working on reporting this.

618

I've watched a lot of body cam footage,

listened to the 911 calls, and had my

619

own experience of being there that night.

620

And I'm starting to just now talk

to staff and council members.

621

But, sorry, there was a lot of

backstory to talk about some stats

622

that got presented on Monday at

their, I think it was the Public

623

Health and Safety Committee,

which they do every once a month.

624

And the Chief of Police and the Fire

Chief both come down and they present some

625

key statistics from their departments.

626

Some of these they choose, some

council has requested to please

627

share information about this.

628

And I noticed that for 2025 calls to

the behavioral health unit, which is

629

the sort of small unit in the police

force that is like a co response unit

630

where they pair a police officer with a.

631

Somebody from Frontier Behavioral Health,

and they go out on calls for mental

632

health crisis and calls for overdoses.

633

The, the, the sort of situation

that would have been perfect

634

for this City Council situation.

635

Yes.

636

Except they, they don't go

out after 6, right, currently?

637

Yeah, so you're scooping me here,

but the person on the 911 call

638

who called the cops specifically

requested the Behavioral Health Unit.

639

They specifically said I

think this man, is in crisis.

640

It might be related to drugs.

641

It might not be.

642

But I think the most appropriate response

here would be the behavioral health or the

643

behavioral, yeah, behavioral health unit.

644

And the dispatcher did not say that that

would not be available, but apparently

645

they are now not working after 6 p.

646

m.

647

So.

648

Which is another interesting part that is

maybe a systems failure because somebody

649

I talked to was talking about sundowning

and how the most common times for people

650

to be in mental health crises are when it

starts to get dark, so usually after 6 p.

651

m.

652

Mental health crisis 9 1 1

653

In the first three months alone, we

have had 1,101 mental health crisis

654

calls to the Spokane Police dispatch.

655

And drug calls are only up 7%.

656

And so I wanted to share

this set of statistics.

657

It doesn't, it doesn't tell

the whole story, right?

658

And these are just raw numbers.

659

But I do think there's this

perception that everything wrong

660

in our community is about drugs.

661

It's fentanyl, it's ruining our city.

662

Well, and looking at these stats,

it's actually, that looks like it's

663

a 7 percent increase over a five year

664

But it actually, it's, calls are

way, way down from the same time.

665

The same three month period from 2024.

666

So there's 730 drug calls in 2024.

667

There've only, there've

been less than 500 so far.

668

So I find that really,

really interesting as well.

669

Yeah.

670

And I don't know, I think I don't know

how much of a salient point I have to make

671

about these stats, but it is something

that I've been thinking about as.

672

A lot of times I hear at council like

we just need to arrest more people, we

673

need to stop the criminality, we need

to stop letting people break laws.

674

And what we're seeing in the calls

is that the, the real heart of the

675

issue is a mental health crisis.

676

Not, not drug use.

677

Not drug use, which, drug use may be

involved in the mental health crisis.

678

Sure.

679

Again, these are just raw numbers.

680

I don't know.

681

But it looks like it's It's based

on how they come in to the center.

682

Into the center.

683

So you might think it's a drug

thing and it's actually a mental

684

health thing or vice versa.

685

And it's drugs or vice versa, yeah.

686

But, it seems like for a large

portion of these calls, the most

687

appropriate response is not jail.

688

Well, that's the thing about the

Behavioral Health Unit is like they've

689

got a trained mental health person

with them, so that's And the goal is to

690

keep people out of jail and out of the

hospital unless those are absolutely the

691

most appropriate place for the person.

692

So de escalation, well, it's, Spokane

Police Department's default tactic is

693

supposed to be de escalation, but this

is like a unit that's like specially

694

trained in additional sort of de

escalation around mental health stuff and

695

then yeah, to your point, they're, The

first call is ideally not to the county

696

jail, it's, it's some other diversionary

program or something like that.

697

Right, I went on a ride along with

them and the The police half of the

698

duo handled a lot of the interactions.

699

I went when it was Richie Plunkett,

who's pretty well known in Spokane.

700

He's, has some mental

health training himself.

701

Everybody on the streets knew him, trusted

him, would come up to him and talk to him.

702

And then the Frontier Behavioral

Health person partnered with Richie.

703

would then go through this log of

resources okay, I've got this person

704

in crisis, can I, how many beds are

available at the sobering center?

705

How many beds are available at this

shelter that might be a good fit for them?

706

Do I know what shelter

would be a good fit?

707

Running through those resources in a way

that isn't just oh, you're breaking the

708

law, we're going to jail, or, oh, you

overdosed, we're going to the hospital.

709

It was a lot more holistic.

710

And but we only have I want to say

there's six or seven officers that are

711

part of the behavioral health unit.

712

And it's a pretty small thing

comparatively to the rest of the force.

713

And so that option might

not always be available.

714

They might be out on one call

when another one comes in.

715

They might not work past six.

716

We're balancing a lot

of officers schedules.

717

So it's just complicated.

718

Sophia, how have you?

719

Like mental health crises

and things like that.

720

How does that get responded

to in Ponderay County or the

721

other places you've reported?

722

And have you noticed a shift in

the last I mean, since the pandemic

723

or, or whatever, I think there was

definitely a shift during the pandemic.

724

I imagine a lot of municipalities

and counties saw that, but we

725

did get an increase in calls

for behavioral health services.

726

Unfortunately.

727

Our Pondera County Counseling Services

isn't a place you can go to just if you're

728

looking for a counselor or a therapist.

729

And like a lot of behavioral health,

they, Turnover is, is hard for them.

730

They've got, and I don't mean to

disparage them because they've got

731

great staff there who work very hard

and they know the community very well.

732

These are high stress jobs that

don't always pay a lot of money.

733

Oh yes, especially not

in smaller counties.

734

Right.

735

So the the incentive to, if you get an

opportunity to go to a bigger county

736

where you can make more money, the

incentive is high and I don't blame

737

anybody for taking that opportunity.

738

I know that Lately, I can't really

say how things are shifting.

739

That would be another good follow up

story for us to do in terms of how

740

that's looking from a rural area.

741

But I do think that the

demand for services is high.

742

It has been for a while.

743

Our sheriff department works very hard.

744

Hand in hand with behavioral

health, I feel like they're trying,

745

but it's a huge swatch of county.

746

It's very long, and there's

only, only so, so many.

747

deputies in a day, so to speak.

748

So it's it's hard to cover.

749

It's hard to get those services

especially to north county.

750

Once upon a time many many years ago

There was a bus that ran actually all

751

the way from the north county to spokane.

752

I'm not sure when that went away Was that

like sponsored by the kalispell tribe?

753

Or something like that.

754

It might have been.

755

I think it might have been.

756

It might have been.

757

Or they even had a little

bus service for their clinic.

758

I wonder if that, if it was the

same thing, because I used to

759

also drive by my high school.

760

Oh, did they?

761

Yeah.

762

Oh.

763

Like on the, it would just come down

highway two on the way to Spokane, yeah.

764

I know we still have a bus that runs

from Newport to Spokane, but I think

765

the one for the North County went away a

long time ago, which is very unfortunate

766

because anyone up there who does need.

767

Behavioral health is going to

have to, we've talked about this

768

before, they have an hour commute

one way to Newport, basically from

769

from the north end of the county.

770

Yeah, whether they want to go

to Newport or whether they want

771

to go over the hill to Colville.

772

It's either way.

773

It's about an hour.

774

So I think I think we're facing a lot

of the same things that Spokane is,

775

of course, but It's just definitely

more, you see it more here and I'm not

776

telling you guys anything you don't know.

777

It's a lot to deal with, whereas I

think in rural areas, again, it's

778

easier to act like it's not there

because you just can't see it as much

779

because Everybody is so spread out.

780

Yeah, and I grew up in a rural

area and homelessness just

781

looked less, it looked different.

782

Not just like invisible, but it looked

like, camping on public lands repeatedly.

783

Or, yeah, like a camper that

you're constantly having to move

784

around because you don't, have the

money for a hookup at XYZ spot.

785

Right.

786

Yeah, so it just seemed very

different than than what it's

787

like to be homeless in a city.

788

Yeah, exactly Speaking of

being homeless in a city.

789

Yeah, if you heard all of that and thought

oh, no, they're not arresting people

790

We haven't made homelessness a crime.

791

We're just treating it like a mental

illness I have and the voters the

792

voters voted to make it a crime.

793

So yeah promises kept we are Arresting

slash giving citations to way more people

794

in 2025 than unhoused people specifically.

795

And I mean, I'm looking at these

charts that the police presented.

796

So when we're, when we're calculating how.

797

Homelessness is criminalized.

798

We're looking at three different

statistics for arrests based on

799

three different types of law.

800

So, pedestrian interference.

801

Yes, and that means basically

Are you on the sidewalk and

802

in the way of a pedestrian?

803

That could be a crime.

804

But not waiting for the new iPhone

in front of the Apple Store.

805

It would be something else, probably.

806

Yeah this is usually a crime

that is I want to say 99 percent

807

of the time enforced against

somebody that is unhoused.

808

I'm just pulling that number out of

my head, but like even the cops and

809

the council call these sort of like

crimes associated with homelessness.

810

There's a specific phrase they use.

811

It's sort of like if you're

unhoused, it's really hard to

812

just not commit these crimes.

813

And these, it's, we should

say that this is not.

814

us deciding these were the

things we're going to talk about.

815

This is how they look at

statistics around homelessness

816

and interactions with cops, right?

817

Yeah.

818

And so we've got, yeah, pedestrian

interference, unlawful camping

819

And then the one that's gotten a

lot of press is sit and lie, which

820

kind of tells you where you can sit

and lie, at what hours, where you

821

can't, when that becomes a crime.

822

But apparently that used to

be like the favored choice.

823

tool of past administrations, and

it's gone a little bit out of fashion.

824

Under Mayor Brown pedestrian interference

citations are way, way, way up.

825

And As opposed to sit and lie.

826

And sit and lie was so, I think

the word Chief Hall used was

827

negligible, that he didn't even

include a slide of About sit and lie.

828

About sit and lie.

829

Because They'd only enforced it, I

think, once in the entire month of

830

February, as opposed to 74 enforcements

of pedestrian interference in February.

831

And is, is the green

line, is that this year?

832

Green line is 2025, the dark blue

833

So you're seeing two different,

we're talking about two different

834

mayoral administrations here.

835

2023, we were under conservative

Mayor Nadine Woodward.

836

2024, it switches to Brown, Mayor Lisa

Brown, who is ostensibly a Democrat.

837

You might think, a lot of the campaign

messaging was, Brown is soft on crime.

838

Brown won't arrest homeless people.

839

Brown wants to put safe parking

lots for people to sleep in, in

840

the backyard of your business.

841

These are all like, I'm pulling these

off of billboards that we're all over.

842

Well, there was a press, there

was a press conference in it.

843

Not in my lot, Lisa.

844

Yeah, exactly.

845

But it looks like so, from Woodward's

last year in office in January, 18

846

people were arrested for pedestrian

interference or cited or cited last year.

847

During Brown's first year, it

was 27, and then just last, a

848

couple months ago, it was 117.

849

So a 4x plus, more than, more than 4x

jump from Woodward, or from Brown's first

850

year to her second, and an even bigger

jump from, from Woodward's final year.

851

I'll also say that SitLie was create, I

852

Condon administration, but it was, it

was a progressive council that passed it.

853

Ben Stuckert former council president

of that first that first, majority

854

progressive council Was one of the

proponents of that and pushed it

855

through and the at the time a lot of I

would say relatively Progressive like

856

retail shop owners downtown were also

even in favor of it because they said

857

things like well We need something to

do like we need some sort of mechanism

858

of control for when people get out of

hand or if they can't be roused at all

859

and So it's fascinating that It's not

even really being used in pedestrian

860

interference, which has probably

always been on the books as a law.

861

For, yeah.

862

Has now become the sort of

enforcement mechanism of choice.

863

So maybe, maybe sit lie is just a

little, maybe even irrelevant now.

864

Yeah, I think for one, it's the, the

burden of proof seems to be easier.

865

And sit and lie came with conditions

oh, you can only enforce it in

866

this area under these hours.

867

It was like downtown.

868

Downtown.

869

Where with pedestrian

interference, I want to say that's.

870

I mean, I know it's at all times,

and I want to say it's citywide.

871

But also, the big thing that happened here

is the Grants Pass Supreme Court case.

872

So, Cities were maybe not

enforcing these laws that are

873

intrinsically tied to homelessness.

874

That's the phrase that I've heard counsel.

875

Intrinsically tied to homelessness.

876

Because it could be considered cruel and

unusual punishment to arrest somebody

877

for, sitting in their unlawful camping

if there's not shelter beds available.

878

The Supreme Court found that, oh,

that's not the case, so now you don't

879

have to check for shelter beds, and

you can just, arrest people for being

880

homeless, basically, or for sleeping

in public, or, being on the sidewalk.

881

Anyways, the reason we brought this up,

and I'm trying to wrap this up quickly

882

because we we're close to the end here.

883

We're, we're yappers.

884

There is going to be a slate

of new policies coming up for

885

a vote in a couple of weeks.

886

There was these big community round

tables where they were trying to gather

887

people with lived experience, service

providers and folks from the business

888

community to sit together and talk about.

889

Homelessness in the city and

what we need to do about it.

890

And some recommendations emerged from

these roundtables that now council has

891

drafted ordinances based on the findings

from these roundtables and they're

892

going to vote on these ordinances.

893

I don't know that they're

all going to pass.

894

Some of them are pretty controversial.

895

They all tend to lean relatively

conservative with the exception

896

of one progressive ordinance

called ban the address.

897

That is a bipartisan collaboration,

I think between Lily Navarrete, Paul

898

Dillon and Michael Cathcart, which

would make it illegal for employers

899

to discriminate against people

applying without a permanent address.

900

Yeah.

901

A lot of times people are looking

for jobs, they have to put down an

902

address, so put down the address of

a shelter or maybe a library like the

903

one we're sitting in or, or some other

and might get rejected because of that.

904

Right.

905

So that's something that I'm keeping

an eye on in the next couple of weeks.

906

I'm going to continue reporting some of

this homelessness stuff we talked about.

907

And one thing we didn't even touch is

evictions are also calls for eviction

908

are up 50 percent so it's really a

holistic crisis we're talking about here.

909

Right.

910

And, on that note, Well, so

what are you working on, Sophia?

911

Thanks for joining us for this first time.

912

You have 30 seconds to tell

us what you're working on.

913

What can our readers expect from

you in the next couple weeks?

914

Yeah, maybe just one thing.

915

What's the next thing you're

working on for Andrew?

916

Okay, coming up, we have a story

about rural reproductive healthcare

917

and how Idaho's very strict

abortion laws have affected women's

918

access to OBGYN and comprehensive

care during their pregnancies,

919

so please stay tuned for that.

920

Awesome.

921

All right.

922

Free Range is a weekly news and

public affairs program presented by

923

Range Media and produced by Range

Media and KYRS Community Radio.

924

Sophia, Aaron, have a

great week, everyone.

925

Thank you guys for joining

us and see you next week.