Val and Aaron explore the networking and marketing tactics — including those of at least one church in Spokane — of the Christian nationalist movement that staged an event in the Cal Anderson Park (named for a gay legislator) in Capitol Hill, Seattle’s historically queer neighborhood, where 23 protesters were arrested last weekend. The incident, which took place May 24, has gained national headlines, spawned more protests/counterprotests and drew the gaze of prominent watchers of Christian supremacy to Seattle.

Hey, it's Aaron.

2

This week on the pod, Val and I pick

apart the networks of Christians,

3

including the Dominionist Spokane Church

on Fire Ministries that organized the

4

wild event in Seattle last Saturday

where 23 protestors were arrested

5

and is having ripple effects across

the world of Christian nationalism.

6

Free Range, a co-production of

KYRS and Range Media this week.

7

Well, this is Aaron, and this

week Val and I have the studio.

8

We're gonna talk about the latest

controversy in the world of Christian

9

nationalism, which took the form of

an event in Seattle on Saturday that

10

a Spokane Church helped to organize.

11

It was a stop on a national tour I

reported on earlier this week for

12

our partner Faves News, but it's a

developing story and it's moving fast.

13

There's a lot happening.

14

Um.

15

We do know, uh, a little bit

about what happened on Saturday,

16

and here's the headline.

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23 protestors of the event were

re were arrested by Seattle

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Police after they were accused of

assaulting event goers and police.

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There's a lot of video out there of

this event, which was at held at Cal

20

Anderson Park and Capitol Hill because

Christian nationalists are known as

21

being very media savvy, using that

talent to document these worship

22

events, lavishly across social media

platforms, creating propaganda to vilify,

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leftist protestors, and queer people.

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None of it clearly shows the specific

allegations, which included an.

25

A quote unquote, Antifa

protestor holding a knife to

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the throat of a young worshiper.

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And protesters lobbying balloons filled

with ate worshipers are accurate,

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but the Christians are flooding

media spaces, mostly one, mostly ones

29

run by other Christians to portray

protesters of their rally as sort of

30

demon possessed violent criminals.

31

What is clear in the video is that the

police mostly bicycle, bicycle cops

32

dragged protestors across the grass

in the park and pushed their knees

33

into their backs, arresting them to

be booked into the King County jail.

34

The arrest took place kind of like

over the course of the afternoon

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between, uh, noon and about five 30.

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Um, and the event had to be shut down

because, um, just because of the, the, the

37

number of arrests that, uh, police made.

38

Yeah.

39

So, um.

40

I have a few questions 'cause I have been

a little bit outta the loop, um, working

41

on, um, some fundraising for range.

42

Yeah.

43

Um, and Val was tired this morning.

44

I was so tired from all of

that work, that extra work.

45

Um, but I have some questions 'cause

I have seen like videos of this

46

event, um, on like TikTok and stuff.

47

Mm-hmm.

48

Um, I was just telling you hedge

about, um, Hannah Craig, who was a

49

former reporter, um, of the stranger

in Seattle and is now an independent

50

journalist, um, for her own, uh.

51

News outlet called the Burner.

52

Um, and so I follow her on TikTok and so

she went and tried to cover that event.

53

Um, so I only know a very

little bit about this.

54

And to be clear, I was not at the event.

55

Yes.

56

Um, so I only know what

I've seen on, on Media.

57

So a quick question.

58

Um, I know you covered this for faves,

um, 'cause we you have a partnership with

59

them where you, um, do some, like more

religion, uh, religion based coverage.

60

Yes.

61

Um, for them.

62

What made you cover this or look into

this event or, or follow it I guess?

63

Well, it has a direct tie

to the Inland Northwest.

64

Mm-hmm.

65

Um, and that tie is, uh, match Hays

Church on Fire Ministries, which I mm-hmm.

66

Write a good bit about.

67

Um, Matt.

68

Oh yeah, you go, go for it.

69

Pastor Shea is a former state

legislator who, um, was kind

70

of ousted from his caucus.

71

Mm-hmm.

72

The Republican caucus, which he led, um,

73

Uh, after he was publicly

accused of domestic terrorism.

74

After investigators found he had

helped, uh, militia groups to, uh,

75

occupy the Mallard Na, national

Wildlife Refuge, which is a bird

76

sanctuary in Oregon, in Harney County.

77

Um, and he's, he's, he's, he's

known, he's, he's not that well

78

known on the national stage.

79

Mm-hmm.

80

Like, like the average person wouldn't

know who he is, but, um, people who follow

81

Christian nationalism and it, this, his

particular distillation of it, dominion,

82

which we'll discuss in a minute mm-hmm.

83

Um, as being kind of.

84

Experts call him one of the most

dangerous figures in that world.

85

Mm-hmm.

86

Um, because he has a lot of militia

ties and he, um, has written

87

some most dangerous predators.

88

Sorry.

89

That's what popped into my head.

90

He, he, um, he, he wrote, he basically

designed a government program to,

91

to take over, um, communities in

the Inland Northwest, um, in, in, in

92

including creating his own constitution

that's dedicated to Jesus Christ and

93

collapses the separation between church

and state and established an, it's

94

an explicitly Christian, uh, society.

95

Is this like a localized version of

96

It's, yeah.

97

I would say that it's, it's, it.

98

It dwells along the same lines.

99

Lines mm-hmm.

100

As project 2025, which was the, um, the

kind of like guiding document mm-hmm.

101

For, um, everything that the

Trump administration is doing

102

right now eroding queer rights.

103

Right.

104

Um, doing during, oh, sorry.

105

During the, uh, election season or, or

the campaign season, Trump did deny that

106

he knew anything about Project 2025.

107

Right.

108

He, he did, but it's pretty, if you go

read the document, it's pretty clear

109

that his policy, um, regime is, is

following that document very closely.

110

Yeah.

111

There's a website that's

112

or something like that.

113

That's like ears where

we're at in this thing.

114

Oh, really?

115

Yeah.

116

I need to, yeah.

117

I, I've never seen that.

118

Yeah.

119

I need to, I need to get into that.

120

I mean, it's like run

by like, uh, you know.

121

Like, not by like the

122

It's run by like a, you know,

watchdog, watchdog group.

123

But, um, yeah, that's, anyways,

but yeah, so, so Shea's program and

124

this, these events took place in

125

um, in kind of like 20 19, 20 20.

126

Oh.

127

Um,

128

and they were, they were broke by the, the

journalist Jason Wilson of The Guardian.

129

Um, and one of the documents

they uncovered said that if the

130

communities that, uh, Shay wanted to

turn Christian didn't go along with

131

his project, um, it was biblical to

kill all males in that community.

132

Wow.

133

Um, which tracks pretty well

with some, you know, fire and

134

brimstone, old Testament principles.

135

I think there's some passages in, um, the

first five books of the Bible about that.

136

Um, so.

137

Shea runs a church on Fire Ministries.

138

Mm-hmm.

139

It's on Pacific Avenue in downtown.

140

Mm-hmm.

141

Um, and they, uh, they held, uh,

a promotional event for this, um,

142

for this event in Seattle on March

2nd, um, with Jenny Donnelly, who's,

143

who's the person who's one of the

two people who are running the tour.

144

Um, it's called the, the Mayday Tour.

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The Mayday, uh, the Mayday USA tour.

146

Um,

147

and

148

they, Shea and, and Donnelly are well

known for appearing together on mm-hmm.

149

Shea's radio show and Donnelley's,

well known for showing up at Onfi

150

Ministries multiple times in the last.

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Two or three years.

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Um, she's the protect our kids lady.

153

Yeah.

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Don't mess with our kids or

don't mess our kids, right?

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Mm-hmm.

156

That, uh, fun fact, uh, I get to see

all of our analytics on our website

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and, uh, every few months when one

of these types of events happens.

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Um.

159

W like we get a big spike in

our search traffic for people

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searching, don't mess with our kids.

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Um, and uh, and it it, 'cause we

wrote a story about, uh, Nadine

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Ward word, uh, posing next to

somebody with that shirt on.

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Yeah.

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The former Mayo spoke of Spokane.

165

Yeah.

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During, during the campaign.

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Yeah.

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So that phrase and strip club

near me are like two of our most

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random, but um, uh, fruitful search

result things for our website.

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Sorry, strip club near me is unrelated.

171

Totally.

172

People, people are looking for Aaron

Seller's coverage of of the um, no,

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they're looking for the community.

174

They're looking for a strip club near me,

but they're finding the Aaron story about

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why there's no strip clubs in Spokane.

176

Uh, sorry.

177

That is a small digression.

178

It's okay.

179

Um, and so, yeah, so, um.

180

So, so Nadine Woodward appeared

181

campaign, which she lost mm-hmm.

182

Um, to Lisa Brown in Spokane, uh,

next to a person who was wearing a

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don't mess with our kids T-shirt.

184

Mm-hmm.

185

Um, and social media kind of went

wild about it because, uh, don't Mess

186

with our kids is it's a, it's a really

virulently it's like dog whistle, right.

187

Anti queer.

188

It kind, it's like a dog whistle, right?

189

It's, it's, it basically asserts that,

um, schools are in indoctrinating

190

children to be queer and, um,

it, it seeks to eliminate, uh,

191

gender affirming care for mm-hmm.

192

Specifically for children.

193

But they, they also want to eliminate any,

they wanna eliminate it for adults too.

194

Um, I.

195

But it's, it's framed around

children because mm-hmm.

196

Children are, are really convenient

demographic to, um, to champion, right?

197

Mm-hmm.

198

Um, especially if they're not born yet.

199

It's also, sorry.

200

Well, and it, it's also, um,

very focused on abortion.

201

Mm-hmm.

202

It seeks to end, um, it end

abortion and gender affirming

203

care for, um, for trans children.

204

Mm-hmm.

205

Um, there's actually something I was gonna

talk about later in the show, but I, I

206

think it's appropriate to bring it up now.

207

Sure.

208

This movement originated in Peru.

209

Wow.

210

Um, and it's specifically the don't

mess with our kids movement or, yeah.

211

So there were evangelical churches in

Peru who were opposed to that, to the

212

then education ministers, um, like.

213

You know, queer affirming,

queer accepting policies.

214

And they staged this really

massive movement that essentially

215

got the education minister ousted

and, and the president of Peru.

216

Um, wow.

217

And they, uh, have tried to

spread that, that movement all

218

over the world, including here.

219

And Jenny Donnelly has

taken up the mantle of that.

220

Mm-hmm.

221

And they have a declaration, it's called

The Don't Mess With our Kids' Declaration.

222

I should read a little

bit, uh, real quick.

223

I have a question about these,

uh, Peruvian Christians.

224

Are they like, um, Peruvian, or are they

like, you know, like Christian people from

225

the US who have decided to move to Peru?

226

There's a, there's a really strong,

um, there's a really strong.

227

Evangelical movement in Peru.

228

Okay.

229

And it's among Native Peruvians.

230

Okay.

231

Good.

232

Mm-hmm.

233

I'm expats.

234

And that's, that's what I was thinking.

235

I was like, is this like an expat thing?

236

No, no, it's not.

237

Okay.

238

Um, they're, they're interesting.

239

Native Peruvians.

240

Okay.

241

Who organize this?

242

Um, Jenny Donnelly was

very inspired by it.

243

Okay.

244

Um, but there, there are two, so there

it's like a five part declaration.

245

I wanna read two of them.

246

Mm-hmm.

247

That really relate to what

was going on in, in Seattle.

248

Um, so the first part, or the first

one that I wanna read is, uh, we

249

declare that biological gender is

sacred and the chatter says God

250

made each of us male or female.

251

Biological gender is sacred and

cannot be changed through imagination,

252

behavior, or medical intervention.

253

We stand against the mutilation and

destruction of biological gender.

254

Um, and that's their statement saying

like, we don't want, um mm-hmm.

255

We don't want gender affirming care.

256

Right.

257

They, they focus it on children.

258

They don't want it at all.

259

Um.

260

What's the second one?

261

The second one.

262

I'm trying to find it.

263

No worries.

264

We're, uh, talking about the, it's like

the don't mess with our kids' creed or, or

265

sorry, it's the Don't mess with our kids'.

266

Declaration.

267

Declaration.

268

There we go.

269

And that's gonna fit into mm-hmm.

270

Some sort of like, contextual, uh, yeah.

271

Material we'll discuss later.

272

Um, the second part that I wanna

read is we declare the family as

273

the foundation of a healthy nation.

274

So there's a Christian principle

that like, um, obey your

275

father, like healthy nations are

centered around nuclear families.

276

So like a father, a mother, and children.

277

And that's, that's the

foundation of a healthy nation.

278

I, I thought you were gonna quote

something actually in the Bible.

279

Well, it's interesting.

280

That's not biblical.

281

I know, that's what I'm saying.

282

I was like, oh yeah.

283

Obey your father and mother.

284

That, that's a commandment.

285

Yeah.

286

But no, it's, it's.

287

This weird idea about a

nuclear family that mm-hmm.

288

Wasn't even in existence

that much in that time.

289

Sorry.

290

The declaration reads.

291

Um, God established the family

unit between a man and a woman.

292

He gave them the responsibility

and a, and authority to

293

protect and sustain the family.

294

We stand against any evil that

seeks to steal parental parental

295

rights and destroy the family.

296

Jenny Donnelly was on Matt Shay's.

297

Uh.

298

Radio show.

299

Mm-hmm.

300

Uh, it's actually a TV show now

on a station called Patriot tv.

301

Um, is it a real TV show or is

it like an internet TV show?

302

It's like an internet TV show.

303

Okay.

304

It's not, it's not real tv.

305

Yeah.

306

It's not carried on

terrestrial, uh, broadcast.

307

I just have to like put

that little barb in there.

308

It's not real tv.

309

Yeah, it is.

310

It is carried on radio waves,

but, um, well, well they

311

let us on the radio wave, so

312

sorry.

313

During that appearance, uh, Donnelly,

um, asserted that this is, this is based

314

in animus over the Supreme Court's.

315

I believe it, 2011 decision that,

that, um, basically gave, uh, gay

316

people the right to get married mm-hmm.

317

To who they love.

318

I think that was 2015.

319

Nope.

320

14.

321

Nope.

322

Nope.

323

You, it's one of those

324

But, um.

325

That, that, that was kind of

a watershed moment in like

326

acceptance of queer communities.

327

Mm-hmm.

328

Yeah.

329

Um, I just, I distinctly remember

that moment because, um, this

330

is a small digression again.

331

I'm sorry.

332

I'm It's okay.

333

Very loopy today and tired.

334

So, uh, and also we're doing stuff,

stuff that's spring up, religious trauma.

335

Um, I was interning at a Christian

organization, um, that summer when that

336

decision went through and my mom texted

me and was because I was in Oklahoma,

337

um, at this prestigious organization.

338

It's actually a pretty o Okay.

339

Organization.

340

Um, and, uh, but I was in Oklahoma.

341

My mom was still in California and

she texted me and she said, oh my

342

goodness, you know, the US is going

to, he hell in a hand basket, like, I

343

need to rededicate my life to the Lord.

344

Mm-hmm.

345

Because of that.

346

That decision.

347

And so I think that was like the

348

I just looked it up.

349

It was 2015.

350

Okay.

351

You were right.

352

I was right the first time.

353

Time.

354

Oh my goodness.

355

Um, never done.

356

Well, that's a really interesting anecdote

because, um, it, like that decision did,

357

uh, spark a backlash and it wasn't mm-hmm.

358

I, I don't think it was apparent in

most of society for a number of years.

359

Yeah.

360

Um, but it did, it, it does

fuel a, a lot of the, a lot

361

of the antique animus mm-hmm.

362

That, that is like apparent

in this Christian movement.

363

Yeah.

364

I mean, I think that that moment was

a moment where a lot of evangelical

365

Christians felt like their grip on

the US like cultural, you know, uh,

366

sector was like really slipping away.

367

And I think it did a lot to push.

368

That, those people towards, like

Trumpism and things like that.

369

Mm-hmm.

370

Um, and I know that that is true

in, in my families personally.

371

So, um, I I might be

making generalizations.

372

Well, and you can see it, like, you

can see it and, and to be clear,

373

like I, I've read different figures.

374

Mm-hmm.

375

But, you know, like, so, so, so Donnelly

and Shea belonged to a form of Christian

376

nationalism that is very small.

377

Mm-hmm.

378

It's, it's.

379

Yeah.

380

It's not represent, it, it represents

maybe five to 10% of churches.

381

Mm-hmm.

382

Um, it's, um, it's part of a movement

called the New Apostolic Reformation.

383

Mm-hmm.

384

Um, and basically what Apostolic refers

to is the structure of church governance.

385

So there's five positions in a church.

386

There's the apostle, the prophet mm-hmm.

387

The pastor, the evangelist,

and the teacher.

388

And they all have very specific

roles, but the apostle is the leader

389

and Jenny Donnelly is an apostle.

390

She calls her, she says that she's,

she's allowed to be an apostle.

391

She's allowed, women are allowed

to be apostles in this moment.

392

Oh my gosh.

393

How progressive of, um, it's very,

uh, it's, it's, it's an oddly

394

progressive moving in some ways.

395

It really is.

396

It's, yeah.

397

Yeah.

398

It's, it's very racially diverse.

399

Hmm.

400

Um, it's, it, it's, there's

certain sectors of it that, uh.

401

Skew heavily into white supremacy.

402

Mm-hmm.

403

But, um, it appears, it

appears very racially diverse.

404

Mm-hmm.

405

And yeah, they allow, they

allow women to be at the top

406

of leadership in this movement.

407

Wow.

408

Um, good, Jenny.

409

Good for her.

410

Jenny Donnelley is one of the

top leaders in this movement.

411

Huh.

412

Um, but, but the NAR

basically asserts that.

413

So it's about the structure of

church governance, but it's also

414

about, um, adhering to this notion

called the seven Mountains mandate.

415

Mm-hmm.

416

Which basically says that Christians

are supposed to go out and occupy

417

all the seven mountains mm-hmm.

418

Of social influence, uh,

government and military.

419

Um.

420

Media education, family

media, entertainment.

421

Um, can I share another personal anecdote?

422

Sure.

423

Okay.

424

Um, so in case our listeners, uh,

don't know this or haven't picked up

425

on this, I used to be an evangelical

Christian and very on fire for the Lord.

426

Um, back, you know.

427

For ages, like 18 to 24.

428

So, um, I was really involved in

the young adults ministry at, um,

429

at a mega church in Riverside.

430

Um, and I remember the, the young

adult pastor, I was like talking to him

431

one night and it was a big ministry.

432

Like they met on Friday nights

and it was probably like

433

150, like college age people.

434

Mm-hmm.

435

Um, and I remember telling him like,

oh yeah, like my major is journalism.

436

Like I'm really excited

to become a journalist.

437

And he was like, oh, that's really good.

438

We need more Christians in the media.

439

And he like gave me like a look and he

was like, God wants you to be in the

440

media and like shape the news for him.

441

And I was like, that's.

442

Not exactly how it's supposed

to work, but I will follow the

443

commandment of telling the truth.

444

Um, and it, it was just kind of like a

weird thing and it's always stuck with me.

445

So when I hear that like Seven

Mountain Mandate, I'm like,

446

oh, that's what he was doing.

447

You know?

448

And, and I, I can't say whether

your pastor Right, would call

449

himself, uh, seven Mountains.

450

Uh, probably, definitely not,

but maybe, I don't know, apostle.

451

But you know, that that's,

that's kind of the essence of it.

452

Mm-hmm.

453

Is like Christians are supposed to

be, they're supposed, they, they

454

say they're supposed to go out

beyond the four walls of the church

455

and exert influence in society.

456

Mm-hmm.

457

And the goal is to turn the

country, to be fair, that is into

458

a Christian society, to be fair.

459

Like you are in the world and not,

or of it or whatever, you know, like

460

that is biblical, but not necessarily.

461

The next part that you just said of

like, turn the whole nation Christian.

462

Like, that's not exactly

biblical, I don't think.

463

Well, and I think most, most Christians

would agree that like mm-hmm.

464

The purpose of Christianity

is to save mm-hmm.

465

The souls of individual people.

466

Right.

467

So they can go to a heaven.

468

Totally.

469

Um, where it's a socialist.

470

And so, so this, this form of, this

form of, um, Christian nationalism,

471

I, I refer to it and other, other

scholars refer to it as as Dominion.

472

Yeah.

473

And it basically says the purpose

of Christianity is not only to

474

save souls, it is to, um, establish

Christ's kingdom on earth.

475

Mm-hmm.

476

And that means Christians should

be in control of the government.

477

Um, so wild.

478

'cause like in every, sorry.

479

I, it's okay.

480

We should just have a radio show where

we like hash out like all of the.

481

Than religion.

482

I think we are.

483

Yeah.

484

I know.

485

This is what we're doing.

486

Uh oh.

487

We've, we've had this, we've had

conversations about deconstruction before.

488

Totally.

489

Uh, this is a, a Val and Aaron

religion trauma, decon, or, I don't

490

know, religion, trauma, mess around.

491

Yeah.

492

Mm-hmm.

493

Uh, anyways, keep going.

494

Well, I think, um,

495

what, and so, and so the way this,

the way this I think is kind of

496

distilled in, um, what happened in

Seattle is there was the Jenny Donnelly

497

explicitly said that this tour, which

began in New York, went to Miami.

498

The next stop was Houston.

499

The fourth stop was Seattle.

500

And they have another

stop in LA on Saturday.

501

Um, the, the purpose of it is to declare.

502

That, um, and declare is

a very important word.

503

Mm-hmm.

504

We had that, we had that, uh,

we had that Lima Dec declaration

505

that we talked about earlier.

506

Um, they declare things in the, in

the name of Christ, which a lot of

507

Christians feel is not biblical, but they

declare that Seattle belongs to Jesus.

508

Mm.

509

And that Jesus is in charge

rather than seattleites, right?

510

Mm-hmm.

511

So rather than democratic voters.

512

Um,

513

but, uh, you heard that cry mm-hmm.

514

Repeated from the stage at,

um, at the Seattle event.

515

Mm-hmm.

516

Um, so like they're crying, like

they're saying, like, I declare

517

Seattle is Jesus' kingdom, essentially.

518

Yeah.

519

Okay.

520

Yeah.

521

Um, and what the protestors were there

to, um, to basically oppose mm-hmm.

522

Is the extrapolation from that

idea that Jesus in is in control.

523

Which translates to, um, antique policy.

524

Mm-hmm.

525

The, the same things that, um, that the

do don't mess with our kids movements.

526

Mm-hmm.

527

Um, is advocating for, um, and

the important context is also

528

that they're doing this, they were

doing this on Capitol Hill, like in

529

Seattle's, like Gaber Hood, right?

530

Or mm-hmm.

531

Okay.

532

Yeah.

533

So that's, that's a significant, and

there's, and there's some, there's

534

some interesting developments in that.

535

Mm-hmm.

536

'cause they originally

planned it for Pike Place.

537

Okay.

538

The, the market on the, on

the, it's near the boardwalk

539

in Seattle wasn't good enough.

540

Um, well, they couldn't get a permit.

541

Oh, that makes sense.

542

Um, the, the city wouldn't

give them a permit.

543

Um, how'd they get one

for Capitol Hill then?

544

Well, and that's, and

that's an interesting thing.

545

They, they like these organizers.

546

Are really good at, um, press and flesh

with people who, um, press and flesh.

547

Yeah.

548

Like shaking their hand.

549

Oh, okay.

550

With, with people who never

heard that phrase before.

551

It's like, yeah.

552

It's like an old crotchety,

journalistic term.

553

Um, glad handing.

554

Yeah, glad handing.

555

That's probably more colloquial.

556

Uh, but they, they have people organizing

on the grounds in influential places.

557

Yeah.

558

For example, the way I got into

reporting on this on, on, on

559

Christian nationalism mm-hmm.

560

And Dominion was I, I went to a, um,

a concert by a Christian nationalist

561

worship pastor named John Foyt.

562

Mm-hmm.

563

Um, in 2023.

564

And that was part of a national tour that

went to all the, um, all the capitals.

565

Is that your first foray into

covering Christian nationalism?

566

Yes.

567

I didn't know that.

568

I thought you had like.

569

Researched it a bunch before, I mean,

obviously of your like, lived experience

570

of like your religious trauma, but

like I didn't know that anyways.

571

Yeah.

572

I, I'd been, I'd wanted to write mm-hmm.

573

Because before I pitched, I

first pitched range mm-hmm.

574

In 2023, I had, um, earned my MFA at,

uh, Eastern Washington University, and I

575

did a lot of really deep research mm-hmm.

576

Um, into Onfi Ministries.

577

And that's kind of like

how I got interested in it.

578

Okay.

579

So I, I had spent a year mm-hmm.

580

Like looking at these people.

581

Yeah.

582

Um, but.

583

The, um, Sean, Sean Foyt was

able to organize that mm-hmm.

584

Protest permit, um, through his

connections with conservative state

585

legislators in, in Washington.

586

He, he sent them personal

messages and mm-hmm.

587

And said, can you org

organize this for me?

588

And they did.

589

Hmm.

590

Um, and we don't know exactly

how the permit came about,

591

or at least, I don't know.

592

I haven't, I haven't seen

that reported anywhere.

593

Um, for the Seattle event.

594

For the Seattle events.

595

Um, but I imagine that

it's some similar Yeah.

596

Dynamic going on.

597

Mm-hmm.

598

Um,

599

Jenny Donnelly does say that

they, uh, paid money to be,

600

they paid like fees to mm-hmm.

601

To be in the park, um,

which wouldn't surprise me.

602

Mm-hmm.

603

But yeah, uh, they, they're very good

at like going ahead and at mm-hmm.

604

At organizing.

605

And, um, and MHE knows a

lot of people in Seattle.

606

There are a lot of other pastors in

Eastern Washington and even on the west

607

side, who also helped with the events.

608

Mm-hmm.

609

Um, who have similar clout,

um, and relationships.

610

Mm-hmm.

611

And they're, they're just

very good at net networking.

612

Um, but yeah, the significance of them

showing up there is that Capitol Hill is

613

a, um, a famously queer friendly mm-hmm.

614

And queer affirming neighborhood.

615

And, um, I feel like Seattle in general

is too, but Capitol Hill specifically.

616

Yeah, totally.

617

It's like distilled there.

618

Really?

619

Mm-hmm.

620

Like really strongly.

621

Um, and I.

622

They, they choose these

places for a reason.

623

Yeah.

624

Because they know that they're,

they, they say that they're

625

going into the dark places.

626

Yeah.

627

Um, and it's, I like how that

bible verse, like playing in my

628

head right now, it's for, it's

for the purpose of, of conducting

629

what they call spiritual warfare.

630

Right.

631

Um, and it's to provoke a, a response.

632

Mm-hmm.

633

Um, whether it's a, um, I don't, I

don't know if they wanted violence.

634

I like to be clear, I don't know

if actual violence occurred.

635

Yeah.

636

Aside from the police,

like dragging people.

637

Mm-hmm.

638

Um, like the protesters

specifically who were not part Yeah.

639

That's not clear yet.

640

Um, I wouldn't be surprised

if it, if it were.

641

Mm-hmm.

642

Um, but we, we just, I

just haven't seen that.

643

Yeah.

644

Um, and

645

the, the, it it's designed to mm-hmm.

646

Provoke a, a, a visceral and mm-hmm.

647

Some would argue violent

response, so that for the purpose

648

of feeding into their mm-hmm.

649

Media campaigns, the like, kind

of the, the, what's it called, um,

650

martyred, um, what's the

word I'm thinking of?

651

Like, well, persecution.

652

Persecution complex.

653

There we go.

654

Um, like feeding into that, uh,

'cause that is a powerful tool used

655

by evangelicals and, and Christian

nationalists to get more people to

656

join, you know, and to get more people.

657

More heavily involved and just to be

like, look, they're persecuting us.

658

Ah, you'll, you'll often hear, uh,

pastors in the movement say, if

659

you're not being per persecuted,

then you're not truly a Christian.

660

Um, because the idea is we live in a, in

a secular society, and, and Christians

661

are supposed to accept the idea that

they're going to be persecuted for Christ.

662

Mm-hmm.

663

Um, if you believe what's in

the Bible, uh, the apostles

664

that followed Jesus mm-hmm.

665

Um, were persecuted after, um, after

he was, uh, after, after he went up to

666

heaven, after he, after he ascended.

667

Um, that was, uh, very

familiar with persecution.

668

'cause the organization that I interned

for is called Voice of the Martyrs.

669

And they, um.

670

Help persecuted Christians like around

the world in other countries, um, who

671

are like actually persecuted, you know?

672

Yeah.

673

Violently.

674

Yeah.

675

Um, and I mean, in that kid, like, I

don't feel so icky about like having

676

worked for them because I'm like, you

know, they were kind of using American

677

Christians persecution complex to

help like actual persecuted people.

678

So that's probably a good use of that.

679

Yeah.

680

And, and to be clear, like

Christians are, are mm-hmm.

681

Persecuted in the world, including

in places like, um, like Israel

682

where, uh, a number of, uh, mess

messianic Jews were, were killed

683

during the October, the October 7th.

684

Yeah.

685

Um, massacre, um, mess

hunting Jews are like mm-hmm.

686

Uh, they're, they're essentially

Christians, but, uh, they're Jewish people

687

who believe that Jesus is their service.

688

Yes.

689

Yes, exactly.

690

Um.

691

So, yeah.

692

Like that, that's, that's what

they're trying to attract and

693

the way they use it mm-hmm.

694

Is, um, they like, like I said,

they, they lavishly, documented.

695

Mm-hmm.

696

There's lots of video cameras.

697

There's lots of, there's lots of still

cameras are, are you are, when you say

698

like, documenting it, like they have

like people with like big old camera

699

recorders on their shoulders, like

documentary style documenting this.

700

They have, they have not

just like cell phones.

701

Yeah.

702

They have specific people with fancy video

equipment, um, whose job it is mm-hmm.

703

To document these events.

704

Yeah.

705

And they use it for, in like, they,

they produce these like usually between

706

like four and seven minute mm-hmm.

707

Videos that show.

708

Um, Christians worshiping peacefully.

709

Mm-hmm.

710

Or sometimes they're weeping,

sometimes they're laughing.

711

Mm-hmm.

712

Sometimes they're with like, music.

713

Yeah.

714

Sometimes they're reaching

their, their hands to heaven.

715

And on the flip side, you'll see

these people in dark clothing mm-hmm.

716

Who, you know, they're like, production

are the, the way that, the way it's

717

filmed, they're, they, they appear to

be, uh, like Christians would interpret

718

it as being satanic and being violent.

719

Yeah.

720

So they, it's, it's, it's a very like,

savvy and specific form of propaganda.

721

Yeah.

722

I mean, I, I have, sorry, he had

another personal anecdote about this.

723

My husband, um, he was, he's a media

guy, a videographer and everything.

724

Um, and he used to intern for, um.

725

Have you ever heard of Ray Comfort?

726

Yeah.

727

Mm-hmm.

728

Okay.

729

He used to in intern for his

ministry, um, and do the videos for

730

his like street preaching videos,

um, at like Huntington Beach.

731

Yeah.

732

Ray Ray.

733

Ray Comfort is one of the most

famous, uh, street pastors.

734

Yeah.

735

Okay.

736

Yeah.

737

I just like never know if like,

people outside of like that,

738

that bubble know about it.

739

You know what I mean?

740

Um, but yeah, and, and I think you

always have to assume that people, the

741

average person totally doesn't know.

742

Yeah.

743

Um, and, and there's so many characters.

744

It's Yes.

745

It's like a cinematic universe.

746

We should, we should have like

a cinematic universe like.

747

On our website of this.

748

Um, but yeah, so he used to like intern

for, for him and do video for him.

749

And, and you know, he's talked to

me like we've talked about like the

750

level of production that goes into

those types of things and, and the

751

decisions that are made in editing,

you know, for those kinds of things.

752

And like, he also used to work at a,

um, a church camp, um, and like doing

753

like sound mixing and things like that.

754

And he was like, yeah, like during,

you know, the, the night where,

755

you know, the pastors are trying to

get all the kids to dedicate their

756

lives to the God and accept Jesus.

757

Um, you know, there's a lot of

manipulation that's happening on from

758

the soundboard essentially with music and

lighting and, you know, at some churches

759

like smoke machines and things like that.

760

Like it's a production and it's

very much psychologically, uh, like.

761

Attuned, you know, to, to how humans

react to these types of things.

762

Um, so it is, I can attest

that it is a production.

763

One of the specific things they do is

they, they start the event by playing,

764

um, a type of like tonal mm-hmm.

765

Music called ambiance.

766

And it's just like, it's like chord.

767

It, it's like specific

chord, pro progressions.

768

Yeah.

769

And it just mm-hmm.

770

It fills the air.

771

Mm-hmm.

772

Um, and then somebody starts praying.

773

Mm-hmm.

774

Like really enthusiastically and.

775

That is, there's, there's a lot of

science that shows that does a very

776

specific thing to the human brain.

777

It lowers your critical

thinking abilities.

778

Mm-hmm.

779

Um, and it opens you up to

certain types of messaging Yeah.

780

Which you're gonna get in the

rest of the, of the event.

781

Mm-hmm.

782

Or concert or whatever it is.

783

Yeah.

784

I mean, I've seen, I'm like on

deconstruction, TikTok, and, um, you know,

785

I've seen so many people comment things

like, I thought I was feeling the Holy

786

Spirit during worship music at church, but

then I realized I just like live music.

787

Yeah.

788

And it's like, there's a scientific

word I can't think of right now, of,

789

um, of the physical reaction that

humans get to, like live, experiencing,

790

live music in a big group of people.

791

Um, there's a word for it.

792

I can't think of it right now.

793

But, um, yeah.

794

And, and churches really

play into that a lot.

795

Yeah.

796

Yeah.

797

They know how to use it.

798

Mm-hmm.

799

Whether they're doing it, you know.

800

Genuinely or not, like most

are doing it on purpose.

801

Sorry.

802

Um, don't wanna burst anyone's

bubble, but it is very intentional.

803

Yeah.

804

I have a guy on the inside or hat he

was on the inside, I guess not anymore.

805

So, um, with this event you said that

like, um, you know, are, so are they

806

starting this event with that type

of ambiance, music, things like that?

807

Like, yeah, and they, they did

some other rhetorical things.

808

They raffled off some bicycles

and some gift cards and they had

809

a, a booth where, uh, children

could get their hair cut for free.

810

Um.

811

That's, which was a very specific It

it was, and it, and it's, and it's, um,

812

it's very like, specifically intended.

813

Um, oh, is it like, like, boys

get boy haircuts and girls get

814

girl haircuts or something.

815

It's not marketed that way.

816

Yeah.

817

Um, but that's not the pur,

that's not, I don't think

818

that's the, the central purpose.

819

Mm-hmm.

820

Um, because Jenny, so, so after the

event, um, Seattle Mayor, mayor Bruce

821

Harrell, uh, issued a statement, and I

should, I should read this statement.

822

Yeah.

823

Um, or at least part of it.

824

Um.

825

He said, Seattle is proud of our

reputation as a welcoming, inclusive

826

city for LGBTQ plus communities.

827

And we stand with our trans neighbors

when they face bigotry and injustice.

828

Today's far right rally was held there

for this very reason to provoke a

829

reaction by promoting beliefs that are

inherently opposed to our city's values.

830

In the heart of Seattle's most prominent

LGBTQ plus neighborhood, when the humanity

831

of trans people and those who have been

historically marginalized this question,

832

we triumph by demonstrating our values

through our words and peaceful protests.

833

We lose our voice when this is disrupted

by violence, chaos, and confusion.

834

Um, and it goes on to criticize the, the

protesters, but, um, he was basically

835

saying that this was an antique event.

836

Mm-hmm.

837

Um, and.

838

If you've been listening, you

understand that this movement is

839

an explicitly antique movement.

840

Yeah.

841

Um, I mean, they have,

they have other causes.

842

Mm-hmm.

843

But that's one of the big ones.

844

And sorry, this is the,

the mayday event thingy.

845

That's what's called, right?

846

Yeah.

847

So Gay America or whatever.

848

So the, the May, yeah.

849

And I don't think I've said this,

but the, the mayday, uh, the mayday

850

rally is specifically under the

umbrella of Don't mess with our kids.

851

Oh, gotcha.

852

And Jenny Donnelly has been

very explicit about that.

853

Mm-hmm.

854

Um, so.

855

Jenny Donnelly, after Harold issued that

statements, um, issued her own statements

856

saying we were there peacefully.

857

Um, we, we gave the protestors, uh,

a space in our space and we, and

858

we roped it off so that they could,

so that they could protest us.

859

We want them there.

860

Um, we've had them there in other cities

where they, where they weren't violence.

861

Um, and our movement is, and,

and basically denying that the,

862

that the movement was antique.

863

Mm.

864

Yesterday she went on, she, she was

driving to another, another event mm-hmm.

865

That was held at, at city hall

to protest Harold's statement

866

by the, the mayday organizers.

867

Um, so Jenny Donnelly led people to city

Hall, um, to basically protest what,

868

what Harold had written in his statement.

869

Um.

870

On her way there.

871

While she was driving, she went

on the, uh, the lance Wall.

872

Now show, Lance Wall now

is another NAR Apostle.

873

He's probably one of the, he's probably

he's among the top most famous,

874

um, NAR Apostles and, uh, Lance

called, uh, Donnelly, his friend.

875

Mm-hmm.

876

Um, they, all, these

people all know each other.

877

Mm-hmm.

878

Um, and she, uh, he, he was just

interviewing her and he, he called the

879

mayor's statement, um, ridiculous and

said, uh, actually I have the quote here.

880

Yeah.

881

Um.

882

So the mayor's statement,

like affirming queer people?

883

Yes.

884

Okay.

885

Um, he says the event has

nothing to do with anti LGBQ,

886

with an anti L-G-B-T-Q agenda.

887

And, uh, Donnelley answered that the

stated purpose of the event was to pray,

888

worship and bring, don't mess with our

kids to the streets in restoring family.

889

So if you, if you take

the rhetoric mm-hmm.

890

Of don't mess with our kids and

mayday, um, out of the equation mm-hmm.

891

Which is what she was

doing here, um, then yeah.

892

It doesn't seem like it was antique.

893

Mm-hmm.

894

Um, but if you go read what's underneath

that, if you read the web, the websites

895

of Don't Mess with our kids, the, the

websites of mayday, the fact that they

896

have the Lima declaration on their

website, it is an explicitly antique Yeah.

897

Movement.

898

And they were organizing

to oppose queerness.

899

Yeah.

900

I have a question.

901

So, in the other cities where they've

had this event, are they also in like

902

traditionally Gaber hood or like gay

neighborhoods of these other cities?

903

Do you know?

904

It's a good question.

905

I'm not sure if, I'm not

sure if that was the case.

906

Mm-hmm.

907

In Miami or Houston.

908

Mm-hmm.

909

I believe in New York.

910

It was in Times Square.

911

I think.

912

Oh, I need to, times Square is a hellhole.

913

I went there for the very first time a

few weeks ago and I got so overwhelmed.

914

There's a lot of people.

915

Yeah.

916

Um, but these are, I mean, like, these

are, these are, regardless of whether

917

they're held, held in like an explicitly

like queer affirming neighborhood.

918

Mm-hmm.

919

Like.

920

Chris, uh, Christians in the NAR

movement, see large cities as Yeah.

921

Bastions of like satanic mm-hmm.

922

Organizing or activity.

923

Right.

924

Um, and so she's, she's taking

her, her movement to all of, to

925

some of the biggest cities mm-hmm.

926

Um, in the nation.

927

And, um, Seattle's, Seattle's

an obvious flashpoint.

928

I'm surprised they didn't do a Portland

event, but, um, but I mean, yeah,

929

like these, these cities are all, um,

maybe with the exception of Houston,

930

known as like very liberal places

and Houston is liberal for tactics.

931

Yeah.

932

But, um, but yeah, like they're,

they're going to, they're

933

going into the darkness, right?

934

Yeah.

935

It's that, it's that same trope.

936

Fascinating.

937

So, um.

938

Bringing it back to like, why

we are talking about this.

939

Like why are we talking about, um,

you know, an anti or a, you know,

940

c Christian worship event, um, with

antique undertones that happened in

941

Seattle, you know, this past weekend.

942

Um, right.

943

It happened this weekend.

944

It was, it was on Saturday.

945

Okay, cool.

946

Mm-hmm.

947

Time is crazy.

948

Um, yeah, and obviously this

comes back to, uh, Shay's Church.

949

Mm-hmm.

950

Um, I mentioned the,

which is based in Spokane.

951

Yes.

952

Um, I mentioned that Donnelly had

gone on Shay's show, um, and she, she

953

praised him as being one of the foremost

local people in this movement, and

954

she said that all churches should be

organizing the same kinds of events as.

955

As Shea's Church does.

956

Um, she, during that appearance, um,

just there's some other like really

957

striking important details from that,

uh, and the whole time she's talking.

958

Mm-hmm.

959

Like you can see on, on the video,

Matt Shea is nodding and agreeing.

960

Um, she lamented a, a statistic

showing the number of youth who

961

identify as queer has increased

drastically in the last several years.

962

Um, which don only frames as a result

of indoctrination in schools when really

963

like, so those numbers are produced by the

CDC, uh, the Centers for Disease Control

964

and Prevention, the Federal Health Agency.

965

Um.

966

They said that that might be due

to changes in the wording of,

967

of survey questions that include

people who don't know whether they

968

identify as L-G-B-T-Q in high school.

969

Well, I mean, and just like culturally,

our, like our culture is so much more

970

open and affirming in general now, and

it's kind of like, you know, rates of

971

left-handedness went up when people

stopped tying their children's left

972

hands behind their back to make the

right with their right hands, you know?

973

Um, like I am bisexual and I've

always been bisexual, but I did

974

not accept that about myself until

four years ago or five years ago.

975

You know, so.

976

Yeah.

977

And if, if you had realized that

much earlier, would've answered

978

the survey question Yeah.

979

You might, you might, you might

not have felt comfortable Yeah.

980

Being open about it.

981

Exactly.

982

Um, or answering survey questions mm-hmm.

983

In the affirmative.

984

So I think there, there's a few

other potential factors at work here.

985

Yeah.

986

Um.

987

Yeah.

988

But regardless, like Donnelley sees

this as a crisis and is explicit in

989

it about interviews from the pulpit.

990

Um, she told and, and, and on Shay's

show, um, I went to an appearance

991

by her at Onfi Ministries last year.

992

Um, and she told this story of, and

it was, it didn't have any context.

993

It was, I think it was, I think it

seems to be taking place at a school.

994

Mm-hmm.

995

Um, but she told a story about

a little girl who was, um, like,

996

like a very young girl who was,

who was dressed up like a cat.

997

She had a tail and she

had like little cat ears.

998

Oh, goodness.

999

Um, just like acting like an

animal, you know, just like mm-hmm.

00:45:45,375 --> 00:45:46,935

Like little kids pretend to be animals.

00:45:46,965 --> 00:45:47,235

Yeah.

00:45:47,415 --> 00:45:52,245

Um, and she said to Donnelly,

she said, I'm a cat.

00:45:52,245 --> 00:45:52,725

I'm a cat.

00:45:53,955 --> 00:45:57,195

I, and if you know anything about how.

00:45:57,255 --> 00:45:57,315

Hm.

00:45:57,915 --> 00:46:01,275

Christians perceive that

they, they tie it to mm-hmm.

00:46:01,815 --> 00:46:04,860

Um, identifying as the, the, mm-hmm.

00:46:05,505 --> 00:46:07,755

As not the gender of your, of your birth.

00:46:07,755 --> 00:46:08,055

Right.

00:46:08,060 --> 00:46:08,180

Mm-hmm.

00:46:08,565 --> 00:46:11,685

Um, they see it as kind

of like a similar thing.

00:46:11,865 --> 00:46:12,165

Yeah.

00:46:12,195 --> 00:46:14,235

And a perversion of, of God's will.

00:46:14,325 --> 00:46:18,675

And she said she, she like knelt

down before the girl, and she

00:46:18,675 --> 00:46:20,175

was like, trying to be motherly.

00:46:20,415 --> 00:46:21,435

This is how she describes it.

00:46:21,435 --> 00:46:21,525

Mm-hmm.

00:46:21,765 --> 00:46:24,165

Um, we don't know what this

event was actually like.

00:46:24,645 --> 00:46:28,575

Um, she said, oh, no,

honey, you're not a cat.

00:46:29,325 --> 00:46:30,195

You're a little girl.

00:46:30,255 --> 00:46:31,935

You're one of God's princesses.

00:46:32,775 --> 00:46:34,215

And, uh, it's not a princess.

00:46:34,875 --> 00:46:36,460

Well, and, and sorry.

00:46:37,720 --> 00:46:40,815

And, and, and don, like, like

that's a, that's a very like,

00:46:40,815 --> 00:46:42,015

specific piece of rhetoric.

00:46:42,015 --> 00:46:42,285

Right.

00:46:42,285 --> 00:46:45,915

And, um, basically just saying like, like.

00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:47,835

Don't, sorry.

00:46:47,835 --> 00:46:49,695

If we're doing things

literally is what I meant.

00:46:50,565 --> 00:46:53,990

Don't, I don't imagine yourself

as something that you're not.

00:46:53,990 --> 00:46:54,390

Mm-hmm.

00:46:54,475 --> 00:46:58,845

And we get to define what you are, which

is, which is God's little princess, right?

00:46:58,845 --> 00:46:59,895

Mm-hmm.

00:46:59,901 --> 00:47:03,525

You're never gonna be, um, a trans man.

00:47:03,615 --> 00:47:09,555

Like, um, you're supposed to embody

like a specific, uh, set of, um,

00:47:10,785 --> 00:47:12,675

like gender performances, right?

00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:12,790

Mm-hmm.

00:47:12,870 --> 00:47:14,685

Which is like, like

you're a princess, right?

00:47:15,195 --> 00:47:19,515

Um, and so yeah, that's, that's,

those were some interesting

00:47:19,515 --> 00:47:21,375

points from, from Matt Shades.

00:47:21,495 --> 00:47:23,385

She, she told the same story on his show.

00:47:23,925 --> 00:47:28,095

Um, what did the little girl

say according to this story?

00:47:28,275 --> 00:47:30,310

Uh, she say, oh, you're

right, I am my dad.

00:47:30,310 --> 00:47:35,955

She said, well, so Donnelly told the girl,

according to her story, she said, um, she

00:47:35,955 --> 00:47:39,225

said, we're, we're gonna take your tail

off and, and your, and your ears rude.

00:47:40,005 --> 00:47:41,985

And the, the little girl was like, okay.

00:47:42,345 --> 00:47:42,885

Um.

00:47:43,290 --> 00:47:46,380

That according to her version of

the story, um, again, we don't know.

00:47:46,380 --> 00:47:47,700

She just took a little costume.

00:47:47,940 --> 00:47:48,720

That's so messed up.

00:47:49,260 --> 00:47:50,910

Well, yeah.

00:47:50,910 --> 00:47:54,750

I mean that, like, that's,

that's part of the, so kids

00:47:54,750 --> 00:47:56,100

can't even play dress up anymore.

00:47:58,755 --> 00:47:59,045

Yeah.

00:47:59,050 --> 00:47:59,340

Yeah.

00:47:59,610 --> 00:48:01,080

I think that's, I think

that's fair to say.

00:48:01,350 --> 00:48:06,390

Um, they don't, they don't want kids

to be using their imagination to

00:48:06,390 --> 00:48:09,510

imagine that there's something other

than what they're told by society.

00:48:09,510 --> 00:48:10,770

They should be performing.

00:48:10,980 --> 00:48:11,370

Yeah.

00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,130

I mean, and it goes back to

like critical thinking and,

00:48:14,130 --> 00:48:18,870

and, you know, not like Yeah.

00:48:18,870 --> 00:48:23,370

Not allowing kids to use their

imagination and something as silly or

00:48:23,370 --> 00:48:25,800

simple as like, I'm a cat or whatever.

00:48:26,820 --> 00:48:31,980

Um, 'cause if you're not exercising that

ability for your imagination, you're not

00:48:31,980 --> 00:48:35,280

able to exercise it when you're an adult.

00:48:35,430 --> 00:48:35,640

Yeah.

00:48:35,850 --> 00:48:40,230

And a tithe paying member of the church,

it's, it's about, it's about identity

00:48:40,230 --> 00:48:42,180

and like, crafting specific identities.

00:48:42,510 --> 00:48:42,630

Mm-hmm.

00:48:42,870 --> 00:48:43,051

And like, like.

00:48:44,415 --> 00:48:45,165

Having

00:48:47,205 --> 00:48:50,265

like people who are expected to

perform a specific role mm-hmm.

00:48:50,505 --> 00:48:51,765

Stay in those roles.

00:48:51,975 --> 00:48:52,245

Yeah.

00:48:52,245 --> 00:48:52,305

Yeah.

00:48:53,895 --> 00:48:55,665

That's, uh, fun.

00:48:55,665 --> 00:49:01,065

This has been a really fun, uh,

journey down religious trauma.

00:49:01,095 --> 00:49:03,410

I wish I could have made it to

the Seattle event, but I didn't.

00:49:03,410 --> 00:49:03,570

Yeah.

00:49:03,675 --> 00:49:08,145

I didn't have the wherewithal to get out

there, but, um, so I just wanna be clear,

00:49:08,205 --> 00:49:12,645

like we talked at the beginning of this

show about, you know, accusations that the

00:49:12,645 --> 00:49:18,885

protestors of this event were violent or,

um, you know, with two specific stories

00:49:18,885 --> 00:49:23,415

being like, particularly egregious of

a protestor, allegedly holding a knife

00:49:23,415 --> 00:49:29,985

to a worshiper throat and protestors

throwing balloons full of urine at them.

00:49:30,375 --> 00:49:35,805

Um, and just to be clear, like none

of those have actually borne out

00:49:35,865 --> 00:49:39,075

to be true, or we have not found

any evidence that those were true.

00:49:39,495 --> 00:49:41,895

So I know, I know that at least eight.

00:49:42,705 --> 00:49:46,965

So as of Monday, which is of several

days ago, I, I know that at least eight

00:49:46,965 --> 00:49:48,345

protestors have appeared in court.

00:49:48,465 --> 00:49:48,555

Mm-hmm.

00:49:48,885 --> 00:49:52,935

Um, but no, there's like, the

prosecutions will have to play out.

00:49:52,965 --> 00:49:54,915

Um, do you know what

they were charged with?

00:49:55,335 --> 00:49:55,845

Assault.

00:49:56,355 --> 00:49:57,135

Oh, okay.

00:49:57,140 --> 00:49:58,845

Of the, most of them were charged.

00:49:58,875 --> 00:50:02,145

Most of them were charged with

assault and one was charged

00:50:02,145 --> 00:50:04,455

with assault, a lesser crime.

00:50:04,455 --> 00:50:05,415

I can't remember what it was.

00:50:05,715 --> 00:50:11,025

Assault of the people at the

event, either protesters or either

00:50:11,025 --> 00:50:13,185

the worshipers or the police.

00:50:13,185 --> 00:50:13,875

Got it.

00:50:13,905 --> 00:50:13,995

Mm-hmm.

00:50:14,775 --> 00:50:15,375

Interesting.

00:50:15,465 --> 00:50:18,105

Have you heard any stories

from the protesters?

00:50:18,315 --> 00:50:18,555

No.

00:50:19,125 --> 00:50:19,155

Okay.

00:50:19,515 --> 00:50:23,895

Is it because they're all in jail or, I

don't, I don't think they're all in jail.

00:50:24,015 --> 00:50:26,175

Uh, I just haven't, yeah.

00:50:26,265 --> 00:50:28,035

Been able to sort out

who they, who they are.

00:50:28,065 --> 00:50:28,155

Mm-hmm.

00:50:28,485 --> 00:50:32,145

Um, and another bit of context I

probably should have asked earlier

00:50:32,145 --> 00:50:35,835

is, um, do you know, like, or have

any idea of what the ratio of like.

00:50:36,165 --> 00:50:40,065

Event goers to protesters were

like, oh, is this a big group of

00:50:40,065 --> 00:50:44,685

protesters in comparison or were

they about the same size groups, or

00:50:44,685 --> 00:50:46,185

was it like a much smaller group?

00:50:46,995 --> 00:50:50,865

I heard, I, I read reports that

there were about 500 worshipers.

00:50:50,865 --> 00:50:50,955

Mm-hmm.

00:50:50,955 --> 00:50:52,215

And about 500 protesters.

00:50:52,215 --> 00:50:52,305

Mm-hmm.

00:50:52,305 --> 00:50:53,865

Oh, so it was an equally large group.

00:50:53,865 --> 00:50:53,895

Okay.

00:50:54,105 --> 00:50:54,615

Um,

00:50:57,135 --> 00:50:59,235

some of the leaders of

the Mayday event mm-hmm.

00:50:59,350 --> 00:51:01,725

Described the protestors as an army.

00:51:02,145 --> 00:51:04,755

Um, and they use really militant language.

00:51:05,145 --> 00:51:07,155

You have to The Armor of God hedge.

00:51:07,245 --> 00:51:07,695

Gosh.

00:51:09,615 --> 00:51:16,335

Well, and like, there was, there's

an interesting piece in, um,

00:51:19,065 --> 00:51:23,775

in the, uh, the Baptist News in

Baptist News Global, which is like a

00:51:24,135 --> 00:51:28,005

publication that writes about, uh, I

see you for reading these publications.

00:51:28,245 --> 00:51:28,695

Um.

00:51:32,655 --> 00:51:34,785

And, and it begins with a quote mm-hmm.

00:51:35,055 --> 00:51:38,685

From Ross Johnson, who's, who's

Jenny Donnelley's, like co,

00:51:38,745 --> 00:51:41,085

uh, organizer of these events.

00:51:41,115 --> 00:51:47,085

Um, he founded an organization that kind

of stemmed from Sean FO's, uh, organ,

00:51:47,145 --> 00:51:51,795

or, or at least from Sean FO's rhetoric

called, uh, California will be Saved.

00:51:51,795 --> 00:51:55,365

And they do like national, or like

they do like statewide tours to like

00:51:57,495 --> 00:51:58,695

essentially do the same thing.

00:51:58,695 --> 00:51:58,785

Mm-hmm.

00:51:58,785 --> 00:52:01,155

Assert that California

belongs to Jesus Christ.

00:52:01,155 --> 00:52:04,335

And, um, so funny and

conduct spiritual warfare.

00:52:04,665 --> 00:52:08,535

Um, and he said Today was wild.

00:52:08,625 --> 00:52:11,205

Um, a, a riot broke out in Seattle.

00:52:11,595 --> 00:52:16,065

Uh, he posted these words on

Instagram, um, and then he went

00:52:16,065 --> 00:52:18,345

on No more acute, weak Christians.

00:52:18,345 --> 00:52:20,805

We serve the King of

Kings and Lord of Lords.

00:52:22,035 --> 00:52:23,595

So they stopped short of, like I

00:52:26,535 --> 00:52:28,875

saying, that there needs to

be like physical warfare.

00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:29,040

Mm-hmm.

00:52:29,265 --> 00:52:29,925

Um.

00:52:30,330 --> 00:52:32,250

But they really relish.

00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:32,490

Yeah.

00:52:32,490 --> 00:52:34,020

The idea that they're being attacked.

00:52:34,290 --> 00:52:34,380

Mm-hmm.

00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,290

Um, that's very important to them.

00:52:37,380 --> 00:52:37,770

Yeah.

00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:39,780

Wow.

00:52:40,020 --> 00:52:43,080

Um, so we are almost up, out of time.

00:52:43,140 --> 00:52:50,070

Um, and, uh, hedge, uh, I'll take us out.

00:52:51,420 --> 00:52:51,690

All right.

00:52:51,750 --> 00:52:52,140

Okay.

00:52:52,860 --> 00:52:57,480

Um, do you have any questions about local

government wondering who to complain

00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,160

to about an issue in your neighborhood?

00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,490

Wondering which agency governs

certain things, wondering why

00:53:02,490 --> 00:53:06,720

something is happening, like a

protest or a worship event in

00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:09,780

Seattle, um, or how much it costs?

00:53:09,990 --> 00:53:13,110

Email us at free range@ks.org

00:53:13,110 --> 00:53:15,870

with your questions and we'll

try to answer them next week.

00:53:17,385 --> 00:53:21,525

Free Range is a weekly news and public

affairs program presented by Range Media

00:53:21,525 --> 00:53:27,105

and produced by Range Media and KYRS

Community Radio KYS, medical Lake Spokane.

00:53:27,825 --> 00:53:31,755

This has been another Val Hedge

Religious Trauma Mess Around.

00:53:32,565 --> 00:53:33,045

Bye everyone.

00:53:33,045 --> 00:53:33,855

See next week.