In this soul-stirring episode, we sit down with the inspirational Jenni Calcraft to delve deep into life's challenges and the journey of discovering God's benevolence in every circumstance. If you've ever found yourself questioning where God is in the midst of trials, this episode is a must-watch for you.

🔸 In Today's Episode, You Will Hear About:

• Jenni's Personal Story: How she faced adversities head-on and found hope amidst despair.
• The Golden Nugget: What Jenni learned from a 14th-century monk that reshaped her perspective on suffering.
• Unveiling Truths: Discovering God’s goodness in places where it's least expected.
• Practical Tips: Jenni shares actionable steps for anyone wanting to deepen their connection with God during challenging times.
• Q&A Segment: We tackle some of your most burning questions about faith and finding God's purpose in pain.

MEET JENNI

Jenni is mum to three children, the youngest of whom has complex medical issues. Through walking this difficult journey, she has learnt that God is good in all circumstances and that He can bring good out of all situations. Jenni is married to Pete, and is part of the leadership team at Freedom Church in Liverpool. She also heads up Someone Cares - a church-based project supporting chaplaincy services at Alder Hey Children's Hospital. Jenni is also a physiotherapist, teaching Pilates and working with women who are postpartum after baby loss through her initiative called The PABL Project.

Well, hello there and welcome to What's

the Story?

2

I'm Emma Kettle, I'm your host for today's

session and I'm joined in conversation

3

here today with Jenny Kalkraft.

4

Now, Jenny is mum to three children, the

youngest of whom has complex medical

5

issues.

6

But walking through this journey, she's

learned that God is good in all

7

circumstances and that he can bring good

out of all situations, which is pretty

8

awesome.

9

Jenny is married to Pete and is part of

the leadership team at Freedom Church in

10

Liverpool.

11

She also heads up Someone Cares, which is

a church-based project supporting chapel

12

and sea services at Alderhay Children's

Hospital here in Liverpool.

13

Jenny is also a physiotherapist, she

teaches Pilates and she works with women

14

who will postpartum after baby loss

through her initiative called the PABL

15

project and I'm sure she'll tell us all

about that stuff in a minute.

16

But also one extra thing I should add is

that me and Jenny are virtually

17

neighbours.

18

We live around the corner from each other

and have done for quite a number of years

19

now.

20

So, yeah, even though we're remote today,

we're actually in very close quarters to

21

each other, aren't we?

22

Just like a couple of streets away from

each other.

23

So nice to see you, Jenny.

24

Welcome to What's the Story?

25

Great to have you here today.

26

So I suppose...

27

We want to dive into your story today, but

I suppose we should stop at the beginning,

28

shouldn't we really, in terms of can you

take us right back to the beginning of

29

your first faith journey first and just

tell us a little bit about how you became

30

a Christian, kind of, you know, what your

journey to faith in early life looked

31

like.

32

Yeah, sure.

33

So I consider myself very privileged to

have grown up in a Christian household

34

with parents who both had a strong faith.

35

They actually worked with Tearfund out in

Nepal.

36

My dad's a doctor.

37

So that was my kind of formative years

were spent out there.

38

I'd say that I became a Christian for

myself as a teenager.

39

But it's probably as we as we come into

adulthood, it's really the time where.

40

our faith really has to solidify, doesn't

it?

41

And I think we've been through

circumstances in adulthood that have kind

42

of really kind of led me to a place of

understanding my faith fully and have

43

really tested my faith at the same time.

44

So yeah, that's my journey.

45

Yeah, that's amazing.

46

There's a lot in there.

47

I didn't realise that was your background

in terms of you know, your parents and

48

working with Tiff and stuff like that.

49

So that's really interesting.

50

But yeah, I think you're so right.

51

I think even when you've grown up as

Christian...

52

question your whole life like I have to.

53

There are seasons where that really gets

tested and either you grow in your faith

54

or you think this doesn't work for me

anymore and so yeah I'm really interested

55

to hear a bit more about your story around

that and it's such an interesting point

56

like could you tell us perhaps a little

bit more about one of those challenges and

57

that you faced in life where that's really

been the testing and that's been the case.

58

Yeah, sure.

59

So probably latterly, our journey with our

youngest, you mentioned that our youngest

60

has had quite complex health issues.

61

And that's been a real time for us as a

family to have to draw close to God.

62

And we've learnt a lot through that.

63

Our son is called Matthew, which means

gift from God.

64

And he and himself is a real gift from

God.

65

He's completed our family and he's a real

66

a real character and a real firecracker.

67

So he is a gift from God, but actually

what we've learned about God, through

68

parenting, Matthew has been just as much

of a gift actually.

69

And those things that we've learned have

come through real hard and challenging

70

times.

71

So Matthew was, he's got quite a lot going

on, he's thriving, he's doing really well,

72

but he was born with firstly it's a

condition called craniocynostosis.

73

which is when the skull fuses prematurely.

74

He had his first surgery when he was 16

weeks old.

75

He had skull reconstruction at Alderhay.

76

And for a lot of kids with this condition,

that's the end of the story.

77

They monitor them, but no further issues

develop.

78

But that wasn't the case with Matthew.

79

We ended up with all sorts going on.

80

The most significant of which is that he

became tube-fed at the age of two, having

81

developed an unsafe swallow.

82

So...

83

It's been a difficult journey with a lot

of challenges and through that we really

84

have had to learn how to just give the

situation to God and trust him continually

85

with what's been going on with him.

86

Yeah, and I think as a parent, having to

trust God with your kids is one of the

87

most difficult things, right?

88

It's not something that I think comes

easily to many of us mothers.

89

Yeah, it's a tough, tough lesson that.

90

Yeah, yeah, it has been, yeah, it has been

hard.

91

And I think one of the things that's made

it extra hard with Matthew is that we

92

don't actually have a diagnosis for any of

the things that have been going on with

93

him.

94

So he's had a lot of investigations over

the years looking for this, that and the

95

other that we've had to hold very lightly.

96

And also not having a diagnosis just means

that we've had to further trust God with

97

what's been going on and what the future

holds as well.

98

So we have really learnt.

99

to hand things over to him to pray rather

than Google.

100

But like I said, actually, it's been a

really special journey with a lot of

101

lessons learnt and has really solidified

our faith.

102

I think it's quite often when you go

through difficult times that the truth

103

that's been written on your heart about

God actually then enters your heart fully

104

when your heart's broken by circumstance.

105

It's often then at those times in life

that those truths actually fall right into

106

your heart doesn't it?

107

And I think a lot of my head knowledge

about God has really become heart

108

knowledge through the journey that we've

had through parenting Matthew, which I

109

would consider a real positive actually of

all the things that we've been through as

110

a family.

111

Yeah, that's really good.

112

I love that analogy of like, actually,

it's when it's in the breaking most, but

113

that like, that allows you to be broken

open and like, got to enter right inside

114

rather than just be like on the surface.

115

And yeah, that's, I had never thought of

that before.

116

And I think that's a really beautiful

picture sometimes of what our brokenness

117

does or what sometimes those cracks of

pain do in our lives.

118

Uh huh.

119

I love that, that's really cool.

120

And I think it's so relatable because I

think whether it's serious complex needs

121

or something else with our children, I

think all of us as parents can look at

122

times where perhaps we've had to learn to

hold our children lightly before God in

123

different ways and trust God with them.

124

And it's that thing of remembering that

our children are.

125

of gods ultimately and that he has them

and that then you know they're given to us

126

aren't they to like kind of steward as it

were but they're not really ours.

127

Yeah, absolutely.

128

I think that's a lesson that we learnt in

a really big way when I, for me

129

personally, it was when Matthew was about

two.

130

There was one particular time where we

were going through a lot of investigations

131

which if he'd been diagnosed with the

things they were testing him for then

132

things would have gotten quite serious.

133

They were really kind of life-limiting and

degenerative conditions that the hospital

134

was considering at the time.

135

So we were carrying all of that, you know,

what does the future hold?

136

What's it gonna look like?

137

What direction is this going?

138

And I remember we, I went for coffee with

a friend and her six week old baby, and

139

Matthew was two and he wanted to hold the

baby.

140

And so we sat him on the floor and we put

the tiny baby in his lap very carefully

141

and it lasted about 30 seconds.

142

And then the baby started fussing and

needed to go back to his mom.

143

And in that moment, my two year old son

decided, no thanks, I don't wanna give the

144

baby back.

145

Hahaha

146

It just hung on really tight and it all

got a little bit tense.

147

And we were like prizing this tiny fragile

baby out of my cross two year old's arms.

148

And I think I just reflected on that

afterwards.

149

And it really, really God really spoke to

me through that.

150

And as the adults in that situation, we

knew that the baby always belonged to the

151

mum, that the mum was the only one who

could give the baby what he needed.

152

Matthew couldn't give the baby what he

needed.

153

And actually, given the baby a cuddle was

a gift and a privilege for Matthew, but

154

only for a short period of time, there had

never been the expectation that would last

155

forever.

156

The baby would always have to go back to

his mom who could provide what he needed.

157

And I think actually in that moment, I

really kind of learned about how we need

158

to parent our children and steward our

children and all the other good things

159

that God gives us as well.

160

And I decided in that moment reflecting on

that, that I wanted to parent my children

161

that way and to walk our journey with

Matthew in that way, holding on him on an

162

open hand, recognising that he was God's

child, that only God could give him what

163

he wanted.

164

And actually, I had the absolute privilege

of loving and caring for and stewarding

165

Matthew for a short period of time.

166

but he wasn't my child and it wasn't my

place to hang on to him with a tight fist

167

and claim him as my own and as the person

who could meet his needs because our

168

children and all good things in our lives

belong to God.

169

And we need to be willing to, part of that

is being willing to give them back as

170

well, isn't it?

171

And acknowledge that they are better off

with their Heavenly Father than they are

172

with us and it's a gift and a privilege

for us to get to enjoy them for a short

173

season, but they're not actually ours.

174

Thank you.

175

was a really important lesson to learn at

that time and it did come out of really

176

difficult circumstances that we were

walking with Matthew and praise God he

177

wasn't diagnosed with any of those

horrendous conditions that would have

178

taken things down a very different path.

179

But because he doesn't have a diagnosis

we've walked that journey for quite a few

180

years of not knowing and that was a really

helpful and valuable lesson that God

181

taught me in that moment that really kind

of helped us through.

182

It's again one of the things that we've

really learned about God, that I really

183

value and appreciate and that will stick

with us for life really.

184

That's so good.

185

And I think it's so true that you just,

it's so easy to want to try and fix it

186

all, isn't it?

187

And there's, you know, as you talked about

not having a diagnosis, without a

188

diagnosis, there can't be a cure or a fix

or a medical solution, can there?

189

And so it is very much that trust in God

with the next step, with the next step,

190

with the next step.

191

And although that's really...

192

a lot harder to deal with as a parent and

you obviously love Matthew and you know

193

that's really tough to watch him kind of

suffering in an ongoing way but I think at

194

the same time you articulate that really

well that actually that kind of causes you

195

to have to keep trust in God because you

can't just find your own solutions, you

196

can't provide everything Matthew needs and

you sort of have to say...

197

Yeah.

198

Yep.

199

you with his feature and with his health

and with all these things.

200

And yeah, that's just really powerful.

201

And, you know, to learn that in such a

difficult circumstances, you know, you can

202

really see there's just a surety about you

in that now.

203

And yes, you can really see that God's

done that, which is amazing.

204

and it does it, it's kind of spills over

into other aspects of life, doesn't it?

205

But I would say that it is an ongoing

struggle.

206

I do have a tendency to Google in a search

for answers.

207

Yeah, but it is so it is like something I

have to go back to repeatedly.

208

You know, I need to pray about this and I

need to trust God for the solutions.

209

But because it's been an ongoing journey,

it's a journey that God's been really

210

faithful in that he has developed a lot of

depth.

211

in my relationship with him as a result of

those experiences, which I do value.

212

And I can see the good of that now.

213

I think one thing we've really learnt

through parenting Matthew is that good can

214

come out of God brings good out of all

situations and can bring good out of all

215

circumstances.

216

And we've had the opportunity to see that

in reality, which has been really special.

217

yeah, that kind of brings me on to my next

question actually, because you guys, I

218

mean, yeah, you've been through some

really hard stuff, but like, I think even

219

in your bio, you mentioned like that, this

part of your journey is about learning

220

that God is good and can bring good

through all things.

221

And that just that real confidence in that

in your life.

222

And I know that this whole journey that

you've been on with Maths View has been

223

one area that you've...

224

You've seen God do some really amazing

stuff, haven't you?

225

When you've really seen him move through

Matthew's life.

226

And then, you know, and yeah, can you tell

us a bit more about that?

227

Like how has God brought good out of this

situation?

228

Cause a lot of people listening would be

like, what's good about having a child

229

who's really been through a lot of medical

problems?

230

Yeah sure.

231

So I think in our personal lives, like I

said, it's really solidified our faith.

232

One of the truths that's been dropped into

our hearts is the fact that God is good.

233

I think quite early on in our journey we

realised that we were praising God because

234

He's God, but we'd lost sight of His

goodness.

235

And actually being in that position really

made me learn that in my heart as well as

236

my head.

237

I'd known it in my head, I was quite cross

at myself for not realising, not knowing

238

it in my heart when I actually came down

to it.

239

Mm.

240

But now having walked that, I can and

worked through that, I can hand on heart

241

100% say that God is good, regardless of

the circumstances.

242

I've experienced that personally and that

truth is really, really strongly

243

solidified in my heart.

244

So that's one good that's come out of it

on a personal level.

245

But then the other thing that happened,

which has just been incredible and a real

246

privilege to be part of, is that during

one admission about seven years ago,

247

We were in a bay with a few other families

and one of the mums in the bay at one

248

point she had a phone out and she asked

the room.

249

She said does anyone have the details for

a fortune teller?

250

And as we know in Liverpool that's quite

common isn't it to turn to fortune tellers

251

and spiritualists and mediums and things.

252

And so the other mums got their phones out

as well and they were all swapping numbers

253

and looking for availability and trying to

book appointments.

254

And essentially what they were...

255

doing was looking for answers in really

difficult situations.

256

You know, they had sick kids in hospital,

a lot of uncertainty, and they were

257

reaching out to the spiritual for those

answers about the future and what was

258

coming next.

259

And in that moment, it just hit me really

hard that actually, what's needed in those

260

situations isn't the fortune teller, is

it?

261

It's God and His presence and His love.

262

And I remember praying.

263

in the bay that day in hospital with

little Matthew on my lap I remember you

264

know praying to God, God wouldn't it be

amazing if we could bring you and your

265

presence and your answers to these

situations into Alderhay but I'm a physio

266

as well and I've worked in clinical

settings and some people who I know are

267

really good at sharing their faith very

naturally within their work environments

268

and within clinical settings but it's not

easy is it like you know having been a

269

physio in the past.

270

there are situations where I would have

loved to talk to patients about God.

271

But actually, when you're there as a

physio in a secular clinical setting, it's

272

not considered your place to do that, is

it?

273

And there's actually big repercussions for

that.

274

If you cross that line in some

circumstances, the two that don't really

275

mix, like it almost feels like oil and

water mixing faith and clinical.

276

Or it certainly did when I was working on

the wards.

277

And so I dismissed it fairly quickly.

278

And yet, after the admission, I went and

spoke to the chaplains.

279

got to know them and just kind of said,

you know, is there any scope for maybe

280

supporting the work you do and things?

281

And what basically came from those

conversations was our church, Freedom

282

Church now runs a social action project

called Someone Cares into Alderhay and we

283

support the work of the chaplains there.

284

Here are a couple of great guys.

285

in the work that they do and we started

with providing practical support in the

286

care of form of like toiletry care packs

and PJs which were handed out in A&E with

287

kind of contact cards in them for the

spiritual care team so that people could

288

be referred on to the support available at

the point of admission.

289

But what came quite soon after that was a

request for volunteers.

290

So we now have a team of volunteers from

the church who go in and volunteer at

291

Alderhay, all fully fledged registered

Alderhay volunteers.

292

but placed with the spiritual care team.

293

And we go onto the wards and we just offer

family support, a listening ear, someone

294

to talk to, but also have the opportunity

to say, would you like us to pray for your

295

situation?

296

And what's incredible is that nine out of

10 times, I would say that families say

297

yes.

298

Obviously it's not something that

everybody wants, but as those moms showed

299

in the bay when I was there with Matthew,

I think actually when you're in that

300

situation.

301

even if you don't have a faith, that's

when the big questions come to mind, isn't

302

it?

303

That's when you're kind of stopped in your

tracks and faced with, well, what else is

304

there?

305

What is going on?

306

And people do turn to the spiritual in

those situations and are actually very

307

open and very keen to have prayer and to

bring God into those hospital rooms and

308

into those situations.

309

And so...

310

It's been an incredible journey and an

absolute privilege and I still feel mind

311

blown.

312

My mind is blown by the fact that we have

Swipe Access.

313

We have cards that swipe us into all the

different areas of Alderhay and we've had

314

the opportunity to support and build

relationships with families.

315

And not all of those turn into faith

conversations and that's absolutely OK.

316

We're just showing God's love to families

and to individuals and also to staff as

317

well.

318

Yeah.

319

yeah it has it's been a really amazing

example of how God can turn all

320

circumstances to good and also how he uses

our own experiences doesn't he?

321

Yeah, that's right.

322

Because that's part of the reason that

gives you access, you know, and that

323

presume people want to open up to you is

because, you know, you've been in those

324

shoes too, you've walked in those shoes

haven't you?

325

And you know what it's like to have a kid

in Alderhay that you're really worried

326

about, he's going through various

procedures and different difficult things.

327

So I guess that kind of there's a there's

a like kind of understanding there as well

328

isn't there that you know how that feels

but

329

But I also just think it's amazing, isn't

it, that those doors have opened.

330

And it's not, it strikes me that it's not

that, you know, it's not that God, you

331

know, has intended that thing for Matthew

in order to bring this about, but it's,

332

it's that God has used to redeem that

situation in some way to bring good, even

333

out of something that's really tough for

your family and for Matthew.

334

And, you know, it kind of reminds me of

that verse from Romans.

335

828 is it, where it talks about how God

will work all things for the good of those

336

who love him.

337

And it's not that like life will always go

well all the way you want it to, that's

338

not what it means, but it is that God is

able to use even the difficult things in

339

our lives to, and he brings good and glory

even out of those things.

340

And I love that because you know what

you're doing with the Someone Cares

341

project is just such a great example of

that in like you know in your own life and

342

in your family and your church.

343

I mean, how long have you guys been doing

this now?

344

I think it started in about 2018, but we

had a really big break over COVID

345

obviously because we weren't allowed into

the hospitals or even to provide anything

346

into the hospitals for quite a long time.

347

But in that time we've had contact with so

many families and have so many stories of

348

walking alongside them and also seeing God

answer prayer as well.

349

It's not a healing ministry, it's not an

evangelism ministry, it is purely a

350

showing God's love.

351

ministry.

352

But we ask people, is there anything you

want prayer for?

353

And people offer things, usually very

specific things that they want prayer for,

354

and then we have the opportunity to pray

for those and then to see ancestors to

355

prayer and to see them experience God as a

real loving God who cares about their

356

situation and wants to go alongside him.

357

And it's just really, it's been really

amazing and precious to see families

358

experience God for the first time during

what is also

359

probably the worst time of their lives and

to be able to bring that yeah.

360

It's incredible that you're actually

seeing, because you've seen quite a number

361

of ancestors to prayer, haven't you?

362

Quite specific stuff, like through that

ministry, and I just think that's, you

363

know, it's kind of mind-blowing.

364

And I mean, to be honest, it's an area

that I'm interested in learning a little

365

bit more about.

366

So, you know, because you've also, as a

family, you've seen some healings along

367

the way with Matthew as well, haven't you?

368

As well as other...

369

Yeah.

370

that you're working with at Alderhoe

through the project.

371

Have you got any examples that you could

share with us of where God has intervened

372

and you have seen Ancestor Parish?

373

Yeah, sure.

374

So for us with Matthew, I mean, there's

really small specific things that we've

375

prayed for and seen answers to, such as

normalised blood test results or prayed

376

for a normal chest X-ray and have then

seen a normal chest X-ray.

377

So we find that God's really faithful with

those specifics when we pray.

378

Probably a bigger story of healing for us

is

379

One thing that Matthew developed after his

first surgery was something called a

380

Chiari malformation.

381

And it's when the back part of the brain

is pushed down into the spinal column, so

382

out the hole at the base of the skull and

into the spinal column, usually by

383

pressure below within the skull.

384

And it's associated with all sorts of

nasty symptoms.

385

And the surgery for it is quite

complicated because it can cause a lot of

386

issues.

387

The surgery itself can cause a lot of

long-term issues.

388

And there was, so we knew that he had this

diagnosis and we were, he'd had an MRI and

389

we were waiting for an appointment to see

a neurosurgeon again, another review

390

appointment.

391

And one evening we started getting

messages from random people, not random

392

people, people we knew, but who weren't

linked.

393

There was no link between them.

394

Quite a few messages saying, I just want

to let you know, I felt really prompted to

395

pray for Matthew, that God would heal him

of his Chiari malformation.

396

We were like, that's a bit.

397

That's wonderful, but a bit odd that we've

had three different messages from three

398

different people who don't know each

other, all saying the same thing.

399

Turns out that they were all at the

Naturally Supernatural conference and

400

there'd been a seminar that evening on

healing.

401

And the person who was leading the seminar

was somebody who had a child born with a

402

Kiari malformation, who very sadly had

passed away as a result of it.

403

And they were doing a seminar about

healing and about how God answers prayer.

404

But, you know,

405

Sometimes we don't see healing.

406

Sometimes he doesn't answer our prayers

and what do we do in those circumstances?

407

And all these people had been prompted to

pray for Matthew.

408

So we then went along to our appointment

with a neurosurgeon and he got the scans

409

up and Matthew no longer had a Chiari

malformation, it was gone.

410

And he said, ha, this is not the

conversation I was expecting to have.

411

He said, I've not really ever seen this

happen before.

412

This isn't really something that we see.

413

So we went from a situation of being

worried about

414

whether it had progressed or what surgery

he was going to need or whether it could

415

be surgically corrected or not to leave in

the room five minutes later because he no

416

longer had a Chiari malformation and we

didn't need to be there.

417

So that was obviously just, you know, it

was just an absolute joy to see God heal

418

him of that.

419

Yeah, absolutely.

420

don't just disappear on their own.

421

And normally, it's quite invasive.

422

Like, you know, it's remover, isn't it?

423

And quite a lot of risk attached to that

as well in itself.

424

So yeah, just amazing miracle that, isn't

it?

425

And yeah, absolutely.

426

And then yet you're kind of, so you're

holding kind of stories like that, which

427

are just amazing.

428

You've seen God intervene in such a real

way and he spoke to you beforehand as a

429

family and told you that's what he wanted

to do.

430

And then he did it.

431

And yet on the other hand, you're holding

kind of still holding your story in terms

432

of like Matthew hasn't had full healing.

433

He's not, you know, he's still got health

problems.

434

So you, on the one hand you've seen

miracles and you know God is able to heal.

435

I mean, you've seen him heal your son.

436

and yet you're not living in the fullness

of that healing yet either.

437

And I just wonder how you hold those two

things simultaneously in tension.

438

I think one thing that we've really

learned over the last few years is to live

439

life from a heavenly perspective.

440

We know 100% that God will completely heal

Matthew, but it won't necessarily be on

441

this side of eternity.

442

And I think we know that he will be 100%

healed when he reaches heaven and we

443

always have that eternal hope, don't we,

and that promise of complete healing.

444

And so one thing that it's taught us is to

445

live with a heavenly perspective here on

earth, which makes everything a lot less

446

scary to be honest.

447

I can't imagine going through this

experience from an earthly perspective.

448

A heavenly perspective is a lot easier and

a lot less scary.

449

But I think the other thing is that

actually one thing is that we know that

450

God is capable of instant healing, but I

think if He had instantly healed

451

Matthew...

452

we would have had this amazing moment and

this amazing sense of praise afterwards.

453

It probably would have then subsided quite

quickly as we got on with life.

454

And I would say that the process that

we've had of slow and gradual healing, and

455

also incomplete healing, has actually

taught us so much more about God's

456

character and actually deepened our faith

to such a greater extent.

457

and deepened Matthew's faith as well.

458

It's led to Matthew having a lot of like

faith, but also character traits as well

459

that I would attribute to that process.

460

And I think actually I'm really grateful

for the journey that we've been on and

461

everything that we've learned about God

and the way that it's developed our faith.

462

And I think God's in the long game.

463

Like this time on earth, it's...

464

It feels so long to us, but it's only the

blink of an eye, isn't it?

465

Or the snap of your fingers.

466

And then we have eternity, which lasts

forever, was spent with him.

467

So even though these things feel really

hard and really long at the moment and

468

like real trials and hardships, actually

in God's eyes, they're just the blink of

469

an eye.

470

And I think he's in the long game with us,

isn't he?

471

And he has an eternal hope for us.

472

And it's actually in the incomplete

healing that we've learned more about

473

God's character.

474

Mm.

475

and his love for us, I think.

476

And also more good has come out of,

because again, if Matthew had been healed

477

instantly when we first prayed, someone

cares would have never happened.

478

Might have happened through somebody else,

but it wouldn't have been part of our

479

story.

480

And having that empathy for other families

at Older Hay and the opportunity to pray

481

for all those families wouldn't have been

part of our story.

482

So I can see purpose in the incomplete

healing as well, even though I know that

483

he's a God who loves to heal, and I know

that he will heal completely.

484

But I'm quite happy for that to be in his

timing, even if it's on the heavenly side

485

of eternity.

486

It's probably the point that we've

reached.

487

Yeah, that is so helpful, I think.

488

So great to hear you talk about that sort

of heavenly perspective and how incomplete

489

healing actually has a purpose as well in

the interim.

490

I just love your perspective on that

because I think sometimes in faith circles

491

that can be like, oh, if God doesn't do it

the way we think straight away or it's not

492

complete or it's not, you know,

493

quick answer to prayer.

494

You know, we live in a such a fast food

culture, don't we?

495

Where we want everything now, now.

496

And we kind of pray like that sometimes as

well.

497

So like, and then if it doesn't work, it's

easy to become very disappointed or very

498

kind of like, oh, well, maybe I haven't

got enough faith or maybe I'm not praying

499

right or I'm doing something wrong.

500

You know, there's all these kinds of

things that we can decipher from that.

501

But actually what you're saying is, I

think.

502

you know, one, I know that healing will be

complete.

503

And so I have a peace about even being

still in the middle of the journey because

504

I've got that heavenly perspective.

505

And then there's also this kind of and in

the middle.

506

I'm so grateful that God's working and

that we're seeing him do stuff.

507

And actually, it's changing me.

508

It's changing my community around me.

509

It's changing my son.

510

You know, so in some ways, it's sort of

when you describe it like that, it's

511

almost like a win-win rather than a like.

512

Yeah.

513

you know that feeling of being a bit

short-changed by God, you know, which is

514

how some people can kind of interpret

that.

515

And I just love your perspective on it, I

think that's really beautiful.

516

You know it's obvious that God, you know,

has like really given you guys a heart for

517

the families that are broken and hurting,

you know, through what you're doing with

518

Someone Cares project as well.

519

So yeah, it's just beautiful Jenny.

520

Yeah, absolutely.

521

And I think the other thing about it is to

recognise that when we're in that place,

522

God, he walks it with us as well.

523

And he does kind of give us what we need.

524

I remember one time we went for a blood

test for Matthew, and he's absolutely

525

terrified of needles as a result of being

in hospital so long.

526

My friend came with us as well and there

was three of us trying to hold him still

527

and one nurse trying to do the blood test.

528

I think it was about four.

529

And he was like lashing out and kicking

and shouting and like punching and

530

everything.

531

And then it was frustrating afterwards.

532

We were like, we should have done that

earlier because I said to him, do you want

533

me to pray?

534

And he said, yes.

535

And I just prayed holding him.

536

I just prayed into his ear.

537

I prayed, dear God, please give Matthew

your peace.

538

Hmm.

539

and it was just, he instantly went floppy

in my arms, lay completely still,

540

completely peaceful, completely relaxed,

and they took the blood test, and then we

541

left.

542

And it was just that kind of, it was kind

of like one of those moments of, we really

543

should have prayed that 30 minutes ago,

why did we wait so long?

544

But also, it was a real confirmation to us

and also to Matthew that God is with us in

545

those situations, in the hard situations,

and we can pray.

546

for him to be there and to give us what we

need.

547

And he did, he gave Matthew a real

supernatural piece, we kind of call it

548

like a cloak of peace or a cape of peace

in our house, wrapped him in his cape of

549

peace.

550

And yeah, and it's a story that Matthew

remembers, you know, over time that he's

551

really experienced God, and again

something to hang on to.

552

So yeah, even though incomplete healing

can...

553

bring positives.

554

It's hard as well, isn't it?

555

But I think it's important to also

recognise that God walks that with us.

556

It's not that he just leaves us

incompletely healed until we get to

557

heaven.

558

He's in that journey with us every step of

the way as well.

559

So, yeah.

560

and I suppose really when you think about

it, that is the crux of faith isn't it?

561

That God's answer to a broken world was to

send Jesus who would walk with us and be

562

one of us and go through what we went

through and you know kind of walk in our

563

shoes and you know and that was part of

the answer that God gave so and it's you

564

know in many ways like you say is still

offering us today.

565

It's that

566

I won't take it all away or fix it all

instantly for you, but I will be with you

567

through it all and walk every step with

you, yeah.

568

That's so good.

569

he knows what we've been through, because

he's been through it as well hasn't he?

570

He's experienced suffering, so yeah.

571

Yeah, that's it.

572

So good.

573

So I wonder because I mean, obviously,

we've covered a lot of different ground

574

there, but I wonder if you could kind of

sum it all up in one thing.

575

I mean, what's been kind of your one big

takeaway lesson about life or faith up to

576

this point?

577

I know, you know, there's still lots of

journey ahead, but up to this point, you

578

know, what's that one big takeaway message

that you would?

579

you feel like God's shown you and you

would kind of offer to other people as

580

advice.

581

Sure, I think it would be that God is

good.

582

Know that God is good in all circumstances

and that He walks through circumstances

583

with you and live life from a heavenly

perspective with the eternal hope that we

584

have and that will make everything else in

life a lot less scary.

585

Yeah, that's great advice.

586

I think that's, yeah, there's not much you

can add to that is there.

587

I think God is good.

588

And I think if that underpins your life,

it changes your perspective on everything,

589

doesn't it really?

590

So, yeah.

591

And obviously we could talk and talk about

this, but we're rapidly running out of

592

time and it would be really good kind of

if people are interested in someone cares

593

or

594

Mm-hmm.

595

just learning a bit more about your

journey or maybe they connect on a

596

personal level, you know, because they've

got health issues in their family too.

597

It's a way that people can connect with

you, contact you, find out more about the

598

project, just tell us a bit more about

that.

599

Yeah, sure.

600

You can contact Someone Cares through the

church website or through the, we've got

601

an Instagram page as well and a Facebook

page.

602

So you could maybe add those details,

Anna, when you publish the podcast.

603

Yeah.

604

And even if you just put, if it's a

personal connection that you'd like with

605

me, you can just pop on there that that's

what it's for and then it can be passed on

606

to me and I'll contact you back.

607

Yeah.

608

But probably through Someone Cares, yeah.

609

And that's Freedom Church Liverpool, isn't

it?

610

Yeah.

611

So yeah, we'll put all those details on

the show notes, folks, when you're playing

612

it back.

613

But also, it's just worth noting as well,

isn't it, that the project isn't just

614

unique to Liverpool now, but it's actually

starting to be replicated elsewhere in the

615

country.

616

Could you just quickly tell us a little

bit more about that in case anyone's

617

interested as well?

618

absolutely, absolutely.

619

So we've just managed to gain ourselves a

place on the incubator program run by the

620

Cinnamon Network, which is an organization

that helps churches to grow and replicate

621

social action projects.

622

So as part of that, really, we would love

623

UK, and we've seen Someone Cares to be so

effective at Alderhay that we would just

624

love to see other local churches run so

Someone Cares projects into their local

625

hospitals.

626

Yeah.

627

It's really special in that it's not just

volunteers, we actually provide the skill

628

set and the resources of the whole

congregation to the chaplains at Alderhay.

629

It's something that the whole church can

get behind.

630

So we think it's a really kind of special

and effective model that can be easily

631

replicated by other local churches into

their local communities to love and to

632

serve people who are in hospital.

633

So, yeah, if anybody is...

634

kind of sparked by that and excited by

that, then do pray about it and do get in

635

touch with us to talk about whether it's

something that your local church would

636

like to maybe look at doing in your area,

that would be great.

637

Yeah, I think that's brilliant.

638

Just a great opportunity if anyone's

interested, anyone listening or knows

639

anyone who's looking at doing something

similar.

640

Great, great way to connect and just learn

from what you guys have already done at

641

Alderhay.

642

So yeah, thanks for sharing that Jenny.

643

Yeah, not so.

644

I love what you guys are doing and I love

what you've got to share today.

645

So thank you, listen, thank you so much

for coming along and sharing a little bit

646

about your own story and about what you're

doing with Someone Cares with us today.

647

It's just been really special and really

good to hear and really encouraging.

648

I think it's encouraging for anyone who's

perhaps in the middle of not just health

649

issues but any kind of unanswered prayer

or partially answered prayer, it's just

650

encouraging to hear your perspective.

651

So.

652

Thank you for being here today and sharing

that.

653

No, my pleasure.

654

It's been great.

655

Thank you.

656

Great.

657

Well guys, that brings us to the end of

another episode of What's the Story.

658

Thanks for being here today and we'll see

you again really soon.