Get FREE Sales Leadership Resources at go.transformedsales.com/pod

In this episode of the Science of Selling STEM, I’ll be sitting down with Justin Musiek, the Director of sales training and enablement at Kate Farms, a medical nutrition company that offers plant-based tube feeding formulas and shakes for adults and children over the age of one. Justin Musiek comes on to share his insights on sales training and enablement and how he has built a sales training department within Kate Farms.

Justin has 15 years of successful sales experience in the pharmaceutical, medical device, and medical nutrition industries. Justin earned his master's degree in Healthcare Administration at Saint Joseph’s College and his BA, political science at Lehigh University. Jason considers himself a through and through salesperson at heart who gravitates towards challenging roles and loves leaving a footprint.

He has previously worked at Takeda, a multinational pharmaceutical R&D-driven global biopharmaceutical company as a U.S Sales Training Manager-rare disease. Before That Justin worked at Boston Scientific, a manufacturer of medical devices as a Senior Territory manager/sales Trainer-Pulmonary Endoscopy.

On Today’s Episode of the Science of Selling STEM:

• How he started his journey and progressed on to discover more about what sales were and his particular style of sales when engaging with customers (02:20)
• Breaking down the difference between being a sales manager/leader and the person training the sales manager within a company (03:40)
• Understanding the internal needs of the company when setting up learning and development for the sales team or sales leadership (05:46)
• Setting up an individual development plan as a roadmap for growth potential among your salespeople (08:40) 
• Some of the things Justin has instituted into the organization that has helped it grow (10:19)
• Defining the sales player-coach role (14:54)
• Integrating a sales leadership vision in your team through delegating (17:40)

Connect with Justin Musiek:

• Justin on LinkedIn
• Katie Farms on LinkedIn
• Website: kate farms.com

Connect with Wesleyne Greer:

• Wesleyne’s Website
• Wesleyne on LinkedIn
• Wesleyne on Facebook
• Wesleyne on Twitter

Rate, Review, Learn, and Share

Thanks for tuning into The Science of Selling STEM! If you enjoyed this episode and want to learn even more about what it takes to transform your sales, don’t forget to tune into our other episodes and share your favorite episodes on social media!

Join The Science of Selling STEM community on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn and visit my website for even more content, information, and resources.

As a sales manager, you are judged by the

performance of your team, and you're praised when they do

well. But one thing that you've not been able to figure out is

how to get everyone on your team consistently hitting quota every

single month. On the Snack size sales podcast, we discuss the

science of selling stem sales leadership in the science,

technology, engineering and manufacturing fields is

difficult. You will learn from sales managers just like you

that will give you actionable insights and tips on how to

develop as a leader and achieve your revenue targets every

single month. So pop your headphones in and get ready to

listen to my guests today. They will give you information and

inspiration to ensure that you have actionable insights that

you can put into place today. Hello, and welcome to the Snack

size sales podcast where we focus on the science of selling

stem. Today I have the great pleasure of having Justin music

of Kate farms with me. How are you, Justin?

Good morning. Well, thanks for having me.

Thanks so much for being here. So let me tell

you guys a bit about Justin. He's the director of sales

training and enablement at Kate Farms, a plant based medical

nutrition company, he has 15 years of successful sales and

sales leadership experience across the pharmaceutical

medical device and medical nutrition industries. So sales,

training and enablement. Most companies don't even have that

position. If you're outside of the tech world, how did you

start your career and tell us how you got to where you are

now?

Absolutely. Well, I've always carried the bag in

terms of sales since I graduated college. So I'm through and

through a sales person at heart, that's where I started, I

started with a small kind of mom and pop startup company in the

medical device repair world. They cut my teeth for a little

bit there. And then I moved into my first pharmaceutical sales

job. And from there that kind of progressed, and I was able to

take on more responsibilities, I was promoted into a specialty

rep role within that company. And you know, along the way,

just learned a lot about what what sales is what my style was,

which was really important to kind of figure out my best

approach in terms of engaging customers along the way. And

from there, I continued to kind of work through the medical

space. So I worked for a rare disease company, large fortune

500 company there. And at that point, I was really, really

interested in learning more about training development, that

had always been kind of a curiosity for me. In addition to

that I had performed well and had built kind of a good success

story over the years. And so I was able to pivot a little bit

from my professional trajectory from just as a territory manager

and sales when I was at Boston Scientific and two more training

opportunities. And you know, that seemed to really fit what I

was looking to do see the skill set. And you know, from there,

I've spent the last five years in sales, training, Field Sales,

training, different sales, leadership positions. And now

here I'm at Kate farms have been here just about two years as the

director of sales training and enablement. So

tell me about the difference of being the

sales manager, a sales leader, and the person that's training

those sales manager or leader within a company, right? I do

that externally. So I show up, I do my thing, and I'm gone. But

really talk to me about within a company, how that roll is for

you.

It is just different on each company you're

at, right. So there's this interesting intersection of

sales training versus sales, management versus leadership

development. And all of these have to kind of correlate with

each other. And I can tell you just from different companies,

different industries, they all interact a little bit

differently. And it's really important that I think to find

that definition early as to what a sales managers roles and

responsibilities are as the leader of their team, versus

what that component of sales training and coaching should

look clash of versus again, what what other kind of components

within sales strategy and sales leadership look like. So there's

no kind of cookie cutter response to that I've found over

the years right some organizations really focus in on

their sales managers taking a training lead and having more

autonomy around that. Other companies do invest in invest

heavily in a sales training department, or often called a

learning and development department. That is a separate

entity that helps to support the sales managers and their teams.

So it really just depends where you're at. I've been lucky to be

a companies that really do value that ongoing training and

learning continuum and they put the resources there and

certainly I followed that, because that's been an interest

of mine, as well. So

one thing, you know, in this field that we work

in this stem field is heavily scientific field, I feel that in

some ways we're behind, if you will, a lot of the, I always

like to say, tech companies, because you know, you go into

any of these tech companies, no matter how big or small, they I

mean, even startups have like a learning and development person,

right. And so where we're just starting on that trend, I'm

curious for you, because you are not just a learning and

development person, you're focused on the sales training,

right, within a company. So if a company is at that stage, where

they're like, Okay, we need some ongoing learning and

development, and we want to focus on the sales team, the

sales leadership, what are some of the first things that they

need to do to understand what their internal needs are?

So I think, again, a lot of ways to cut this

up, but I think where you'd start, especially if you're a

smaller company with limited resources, right, you have a lot

of priorities. Where do you where do you begin? You know,

one of the things we work on and keep Farms is really developing

our field for your field training team, right. So these

are your top performers that have shown success in the field,

you bring them in, and you kind of promote them into a player

coach role. So really, they're the eyes and ears, within their

regions. They're the ones working directly with their,

their directors or region managers. And frankly, they're

the ones that are the experts, right? They may need more

development in terms of how to train people on how to develop

the theoretical approach to it. But they're the ones that have

shown success and can really be the ones that connect closely to

build rapport with their team. So I would probably start there

before you begin building out what may be necessary at one

point, but before you build out a further l&d approach,

definitely try to engage in develop your your people, your

field sales leaders, first to begin building that component

company, where we are at Kate Farms is I am the sales training

lead, obviously, at the company. But we do a lot of work with our

field reps, and we have a number of them across the country. And

that really helped to onboard or to help ensure ongoing training

and success within the field.

So I really liked the model that you guys

have employed because to me, you've become so a couple of

different things. One, you are putting a person who's lived

that life, or who essentially has done that job, you're

putting them into that position of leadership. And so they know

what's happening, one of the biggest pushback you get from

salespeople is and they never did this, they don't know what

they're talking about, Oh, what did they do it bla bla bla bla,

right. So I think that's one great thing. And then there's

another piece of the growth because so many times

salespeople, they don't see growth potential if they want to

get into leadership, and the company is based in Germany, or

in California, it's like I'm not moving there. So I can never be

a salesperson. But you've essentially created a position

and you've created that roadmap for someone who is interested in

becoming a leader, a sales manager, like these are the

steps to get there. I couldn't agree

with you more. That's something I was thinking

about too, and kind of prepping for the podcast. And I felt that

throughout stages of my career was Where do you go, if you're a

salesperson, and you want further acclamation to different

roles within the organization, I think traditionally, salespeople

feel siloed in a sense from the rest of the organizational

structure, right. And it's because we are salespeople,

that's what we've done. And that's our identity. And we're

really good at it doesn't mean everyone needs to move into a

marketing role, or to a training role or anything like that. But

I think especially for new sales managers, right, if you want to

build that rapport, and really build that commitment base

within your team is setting up an individual development plan.

And being very committed to that because I think there is a sense

that well, I'm in sales, where do I go next? How do I really

leverage new skills and have a chance at other opportunities.

And so this is the surefire way of doing it. It's a symbiotic

approach, because they get the development they want. They

become leaders within their teams, and we're getting an

incredibly important valuable part of training accomplished

with them in the field are engaging their fears. Hmm.

Yeah, I really think that you guys have really

done a really good job in terms of building out that training

methodology in that path. And then even thinking about, you

know, some people may want to go into a role of marketing, or

maybe they want to go into executive leadership. Some

people may want to be a sales manager and having those

developing goals and saying, These are the tools that we have

internally to help you be successful. At the end of the

day. I'm assuming I'm not sure that your turnover is probably

not really high.

Yeah, we've had we're very young company, you

know, certainly but yeah, we are committed to that and I know

people feel confident that they will have a pass showing a path

is important for every individual at a company and it's

also a great motivator if you know you have a core quarterly

Individual Development Plan, maybe an annual plan helps me as

your leader and helps them to really, you know, communicate

that and work towards it. Very important.

So you've been a K farms for two years. And when

you first started, I'm curious as to when you first started to

where you are now, what are some of the the things that you've

instituted into the organization that have really helped you guys

grow?

Yeah, so obviously, end of the day, it's

about moving the number and exceeding goals, then you can

never take your eye off of that. But I've learned over time, and

again, as an individual contributor, progressing through

my career to becoming a trainer and director, it's important you

meet people where they're at. And what I mean by that is being

as a leader able to flex and accommodate their learning

styles, their selling styles, personality styles, all of these

things have to be accounted for when you're a sales leader. I

think, as most sales leaders or new newly minted managers, you

want to kind of replicate how you've done something, because

you've done it well. And you know, you've been promoted,

potentially, because of it. And that becomes a cookie cutter

approach. And that doesn't always work for everyone is if

you have 789 people on the team really engaged. So you know, one

thing I've really learned is you have to be able to accommodate

each individual, if you're gonna get the most from them.

Oftentimes, it might feel like a lateral sidestep in terms of

what our overall goal is, that's to move a number and improve

revenue. But if you do it, then and you commit to that approach,

you'll pay dividends in the future, because they're gonna be

confident in who they are with their customers, you're gonna

feel like they're really, really valued, and they're gonna know

you understand what they need.

So I have this whole, this trajectory, and this

picture, I like to paint for people, it's of becoming a new

sales manager. So it's okay, I'm at the top of my game, I'm

always on the leaderboards, I feel like I've done everything I

can in my sales position, I'm ready for growth. So you get

that position as a new sales manager, you're really, really

excited. And then six months and your director starts beating you

over the head, like you guys are not hitting quota, you're not

doing this. And they realize that, oh my gosh, I knew how to

sell. I knew how to manage my territory. But now I have seven

or eight people, they don't think like me, they don't do

what I do. They don't talk like me. And it's like that moment

of, Oh, my goodness, can I take a demotion and just go back to

making? Like, yeah, I was making because it's sales manager,

really, initially, a lot of times you don't even make as

much money. And then your comp plan is different, you usually

are getting a bonus instead of commission. And so like all of

these things, right? And so when you are able to chart that path

and say, Okay, here's the intermediary step, and then

here's your next step, right? And helping each person

understand that, yes, this is what you did to be successful.

But everybody on your team is different, right? They're all

individuals. And if you don't have individual development

plans and coaching plans for them, they're not going to be

successful.

Sales, leadership management is not for everyone,

you know, and that's okay. That's perfectly fine. You know,

some people enjoy the the individual autonomy, you have to

really affect the organization that way. And but yeah, I think

about our sales to their sales directors at K farm sales

managers, but yeah, they you have to wear a lot of hats to do

it effectively, it can be overwhelming. That's where

hopefully training can get involved. If you have some of

these other resources around you, they can help kind of walk

walk along with you in terms of developing your people, adding

leadership development capabilities is critical as

well. And it's actually a sidenote is like, as you become

a sales manager, you do become focused on the team and

everything we said applies, but then how are you still

developing? Are you getting what you need to be able to engage

your team well, and get the leadership tools and

capabilities that you need to continue to grow as well. So

that's it goes for everyone stopped.

And so you know, people may disagree with me, but

you know, sales person by heart sales leader. And so I say that

as sales manager, sales leader is one of the more difficult if

not one of the most difficult jobs within the company.

Because, again, you have all these different things, you have

to develop as a leader, you have to manage the team, and you have

to hit these revenue goals. Plus, you have to ensure that

they have the skills that they need to actually sell. So you

have to think about all of those different things and you have to

balance right. So there's only finite time in the day in a

week. And in order to make sure that you're still growing,

you're growing each and every person on your team and you're

hitting quota. Right. And so you're right. It's like all

about putting all of those development goals together to

make sure that the sales leader is a whole leader, right,

they're not a micromanager. They moved on from being if they're

not in that player coach role, then they are really not in the

player coach role and defined player coach for me for us, I

should say because I use it all the time and people like what

does that even mean? What is the player coach

the seals A player coach is someone who's

still very much connected to the day to day process of reaching a

sales quota. And you're, you're there to flex all of your skill

sets as a salesperson by engaging some of the top

customers potentially and playing that role. But also, of

course, you're trying to develop and multiply your efforts with

with your team at the same time, it can be a dangerous place to

be for too long, as you said, because you have to and the

hardest part is to start taking your hands off those reins and

delegating the key word is to be able to delegate. And that's

where you have to place some trust, whether it's fully earned

yet or not. Sometimes you have to place that trust in other

people like it field sales trainer lead, right, or, you

know, offer some different leadership assignments within

your team. Maybe you have a clinical specialist with your in

your team that really focuses on you know, making sure your team

understands the product basics, making sure you understand the

product, the messaging. So that's how you start to really,

I think, integrate a sales, leadership vision within your

team. As you delegate, you're still being pulled in for some

of the big picture calls some of the critical calls that are

gonna move in number, but you're setting that expectation that

there are other people on the team are going to help you pull

the ball forward.

Hmm, that's good. That's good. Like I say, I

say it all the time, people like what is a player coach, I'm

like, Yeah, this is what player coaches, and if your job is to

be a player, coach, I think that's fine. But a lot of

companies don't have the same structure, you guys have a cake

farms. And so what ends up happening is a sales manager is

a player coach, they're going on every call, they're closing all

the big deals, they're still acting like they're a

salesperson, they haven't moved into the management, mindset,

mind frame and the 80% of the team who needs help and

assistance and coaching, they're not even focusing on that. And

that's where being a player coach in a company that hasn't

set up things like you guys have, what's a development route

can really be detrimental.

Again, every company is a little bit

different, right? Smaller companies this, this is the

challenge for a smaller company with with new sales managers

against finding the right the right balance there, because

maybe you are absolutely being dependent on buyer company to

drive the number in your capacity as a share, co share.

But you know, at the end of the day, you have 789, maybe 1015

other people that you're accountable for that need to

learn how to fish, if you will. And if you can multiply those

efforts, you're gonna win long term.

Yeah. And sometimes I found that it's

really just about relinquishing that control, right. So as that

player coach, you probably have some key accounts and

relationships that you have been doing or working on for many,

many years. And so And because I know it's hard to let go, I

always recommend them, like, just bring a salesperson with

you on the sales calls, right? Let them watch you in the

element, right? Because everything that you do should be

a development thing. Anything customer facing is development,

when you're talking to operations or customer service,

or marketing, whoever is your successor, right? Because you

shouldn't be training your successor as a sales manager, I

think that's to get into a whole nother ball of wax. But again,

like have your team shadow you so they get the same skills,

because eventually you'll relinquish those things, and

then you can start thinking about your career trajectory,

you can start watching what your boss is doing. So you can, you

know, move on up the ladder.

You know, if you're a football fan, Nick

Saban, Alabama votes, a lot of these coaches will say the same

thing. You know, they went a lot of football games, their hall of

famers, you know, as coaches, but really, the indication of

their success is what have I left the program? And who have I

groomed to take over? And am I leaving the program in good

hands to continue that success? And that should be the case,

certainly with sales leadership, as well.

Absolutely. So tell me you've had 15 years of

experience. you're relatively new in this role, but I know

that you've been successful. Tell me about a person, a team,

a project, something that you're really, really excited about

accomplishing? Oh, man,

so I've definitely gravitated towards

kind of startups, environments, maybe not startup companies, per

se, but in some of my prior roles, without getting too

specific, I've joined divisions that are new and are growing in

different medical spaces. Certainly cave Farms is a

growing smaller, you know, company that's growing

aggressively. I like to seek that type of challenge and

environment out. So I've been fortunate to be like at the kind

of the front end of some of these types of divisions that

are developing new products that are coming out potentially that

are changing the medical space. So to me, like just generally

speaking, I love that challenge of being able to leave my

footprint, if you will, on a small organization that's

growing and growing quickly circle. You know, I think I've

had a lot of medical sales experience or certainly that's

where I draw from but You know, in a prior medical device role

and a couple of what was more more than a year long sales that

were high level hospital sales at MIT, Clemson 1214 16 months

to close, and you go through these incredible peaks and

valleys during that process. But it can be disheartening at times

and thrilling at the same time. And just having sold a couple of

these big types of units into a hospital is a real, in my

opinion, it's a real accomplishment. In today's

healthcare environment, there used to be about two to three

decision makers were involved with a capital decision in a

hospital, right a capital equipment decision. And now it's

on average 11 or 12 people that you have to you know,

stakeholders that you have to pull in and really engage in

order to get Sookie sold into a hospital. So, you know, to me, I

was able to do that in a smaller division at Boston Scientific,

which is very, very exciting. And I felt very relieved,

obviously, to get the sale and get the PIO. But it was a matter

of pride that we were able to see it through for such a long

sales cycle. And that it was something that really benefited

the patients moving forward to the hospital. And it's nice,

even now, I still talk to some of the folks that work at the

hospital. And there's some great patient success with it. So it's

about the building portion, the building story, but at the end

of the day, making sure you're doing something that's really

affecting patient care in a positive way for patients for

their families and for the clinicians involved.

Yeah, and I think at the end of the day,

that's what makes a great salesperson, a great sales

leader, and definitely a great sales trainer, because you're

always connecting it back to the higher purpose to what is the

business problem, what is really the bigger picture that the

client is trying to see. And one thing that you said that I want

to kind of jump in on is you mentioned that your sales cycle

was 12 to 14 months. And one thing that I see a lot of

companies do wrong is they get new salespeople, and they expect

them to start producing immediately or in two months or

three months. And I'm always under the belief that it takes a

good salesperson anywhere from six to 24 months to become

autonomous. And so if your expectations are less than six

months, and if you're selling six figures, seven figure deal,

this is going to be longer, because it's a longer sales

cycle. There's a lot more decision makers, there's a lot

more red tape you have to go through. So I think really that

story that you shared with how you were able to push through

and you're still talking to those people many years later,

because you are passionate about the work that you did. And it

took you so long to win the PIO that you got that satisfaction

at the end.

No doubt. And I you know, you can't do it. You

think about different points in your development and sales. And

I think about my best managers, were not necessarily my

favorites, right? They're not your best friend, but they were

the ones at times that gave you the really hard, critical

feedback you needed to become a better professional. And I think

that's important as you think about new managers and trainers

and field rides and continuing to develop a training

curriculum. As you know, you don't want to just check the box

with with your rep, you do really need to provide some of

that honest feedback when if you see it you that sounds obvious,

but having hard conversations is not ever easy, just in general.

So

yeah, the best sales managers are the ones that

you know, after they give you feedback or tell you hey, do

this or do that you go and you're like in the back of your

mind, like oh my gosh, they get on my last nerves, blah, blah,

blah, blah, then you get over that and you go do what they

say. And you're like, oh, yeah, but I guess they actually knew

what they were talking about. But you never tell them right?

You never say oh yeah, it works. You just do it. Awesome.

Awesome. So Justin, this has been an amazing, amazing time. I

really enjoy chatting with you. I really learning about the

trajectory of your career and how you have built a training

program department within your company. Thank you for joining

today.

Thank you so much. I love what you're doing.

Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Awesome. And that guys was a another episode

of the Snack size sales podcast, remember and whatever you do,

transform your sales and we'll see you next time.

Thank you for joining us today on the snack sized sales

podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe and leave us

a review. Learn how to continue increasing your bottom line by

getting simplified sales strategies delivered to your

inbox weekly by going to www dot snack sized sales.com. Trust me,

your bank account will grow and love you