Artwork for podcast Fork U with Dr. Terry Simpson
Animal Protein and Cancer Risk
Episode 979th October 2025 • Fork U with Dr. Terry Simpson • Terry Simpson
00:00:00 00:13:31

Share Episode

Shownotes

Animal Protein and Cancer Risk: What the Science Really Says

Recently, Mark Hyman posted on X (formerly Twitter) that a new study suggests eating more animal protein might actually lower your risk of cancer. The study he pointed to came from the NHANES dataset—a U.S. survey of diet and health. It sounded reassuring, but it doesn’t line up with the bulk of the evidence. Here is the story about Animal protein and cancer risk:

Let’s dig into what the science really shows.

Red and Processed Meats: Where the Risk Is Clear

If you want the strongest evidence, look at red and processed meats. Large prospective cohort studies and systematic reviews consistently show that higher intake of these foods increases cancer risk. The effect is clearest for colorectal cancer, but we also see it in breast, endometrial, and even lung cancer.[1–6]

How big is the risk? Recent meta-analyses and systematic reviews find relative risks (RRs) and hazard ratios (HRs) in the 1.10–1.30 range for the highest vs. lowest intakes. For example, a comprehensive meta-analysis reported that every 50–70 grams per day of red or processed meat increased colorectal cancer risk by 15–32% (HR 1.15–1.32).[3,5] Processed meat generally carries more risk than unprocessed red meat.[2–3,6]

That’s why the American Cancer Society recommends limiting red and processed meats. Their advice is clear: swap them out for fish, poultry, or legumes when possible.[15]

Fish: A Safer Bet

The data on fish tells a different story. Multiple studies and meta-analyses find a modest reduction in colorectal cancer risk with higher fish intake (SRR 0.94, 95% CI 0.89–0.99).[7–8] In fact, adding 50 grams of fish per day reduces risk by about 4%.

Pescatarian diets (no red meat, but including fish) show even more protection. Compared to meat-eaters, pescatarians had a 9% lower overall and colorectal cancer risk (RR 0.91, 95% CI 0.86–0.96).[9]


Poultry: Mostly Neutral

Chicken and turkey usually get lumped in with “animal protein.” But when you pull the data apart, poultry tells a different story. Most meta-analyses show a neutral or even slightly protective association with colorectal cancer (RR 0.79, 95% CI 0.63–0.99 for white meat).[10–12]

That said, a few studies hint at possible links with certain blood cancers, but those findings aren’t strong or consistent.[5,10] For most people, poultry is a much safer choice than red or processed meats.


Dairy: A Mixed Picture

Dairy is tricky. On one hand, milk and calcium-rich foods are consistently linked to a lower risk of colorectal cancer (RR 0.93, 95% CI 0.91–0.94).[4,13] On the other hand, high intake of milk or calcium may slightly increase the risk of prostate and endometrial cancers (RR 1.09–1.10).[13–14]

No consistent associations are found for breast or ovarian cancer. Cheese intake in particular may even have protective effects, but results vary.


Why the Confusion?

So why did that NHANES study Mark Hyman highlighted find a small reduction in cancer mortality with higher animal protein? A few reasons:

  • NHANES relies on a single dietary recall—one snapshot in time that may not reflect long-term habits.
  • It doesn’t separate red and processed meat from healthier animal proteins like fish or poultry.
  • Residual confounding (differences in lifestyle factors that aren’t fully accounted for) may skew the results.

When you put NHANES side by side with larger, longer-term studies and meta-analyses, it looks like the outlier. The overwhelming weight of evidence shows that red and processed meats increase cancer risk, while fish, poultry, and some dairy products are safer or even protective in specific cases. Animal protein and cancer risk is positive.


The Bottom Line

Protein matters—but the source matters more.

  • Red and processed meats: consistently linked to higher cancer risk
  • Fish: modestly protective, especially for colorectal cancer
  • Poultry: generally neutral, sometimes protective
  • Dairy: lowers colorectal risk, but may raise prostate and endometrial cancer risk

The American Cancer Society sums it up well: limit red and processed meats, and lean into fish, poultry, beans, and plant-based proteins.[15]



References

[1] Rock CL, Thomson C, Gansler T, et al. CA Cancer J Clin. 2020;70(4):245-271.

[2] Abid Z, Cross AJ, Sinha R. Am J Clin Nutr. 2014;100 Suppl 1:386S-93S.

[3] Lippi G, Mattiuzzi C, Cervellin G. Crit Rev Oncol Hematol. 2016;97:1-14.

[4] Boada LD, Henríquez-Hernández LA, Luzardo OP. Food Chem Toxicol. 2016;92:236-244.

[5] Diallo A, Deschasaux M, Latino-Martel P, et al. Int J Cancer. 2018;142(2):230-237.

[6] Farvid MS, Sidahmed E, Spence ND, et al. Eur J Epidemiol. 2021;36(9):937-951.

[7] Poorolajal J, Mohammadi Y, Fattahi-Darghlou M, et al. PLoS One. 2024;19(6):e0305994.

[8] Vieira AR, Abar L, Chan DSM, et al. Ann Oncol. 2017;28(8):1788-1802.

[9] Parra-Soto S, Ahumada D, Petermann-Rocha F, et al. BMC Med. 2022;20(1):79.

[10] Nielsen TB, Würtz AML, Tjønneland A, et al. Br J Nutr. 2022;127(4):563-569.

[11] Bonfiglio C, Tatoli R, Donghia R, et al. Nutrients. 2025;17(8):1370.

[12] Wang F, Chandler PD, Zeleznik OA, et al. Nutrients. 2022;14(5):978.

[13] Willett WC, Ludwig DS. N Engl J Med. 2020;382(7):644-654.

[14] Watling CZ, Kelly RK, Dunneram Y, et al. Br J Cancer. 2023;129(4):636-647.

[15] American Cancer Society. Guidelines for Diet and Physical Activity for Cancer Prevention. CA Cancer J Clin. 2020;70(4):245-271.

Transcripts

Speaker:

>> Dr. Terry Simpson: Eating more animal protein means less cancer.

Speaker:

Well, so tweets Mark Hyman. You may have heard of

Speaker:

him. He's a low carb enthusiast, a MAHA supporter,

Speaker:

a supplement salesman, and now a nutrition

Speaker:

revisionist. He wants you to believe that more

Speaker:

animal protein lowers cancer risk, pointing to an

Speaker:

outlier study that boils decades of flaw survey

Speaker:

data into one thin gruel of a conclusion. This

Speaker:

isn't science. It's the conjuring trick of a

Speaker:

salesman. We would probably call it the arrogance

Speaker:

of certainty. Without the burden of proof, Hyman

Speaker:

waves away mountains of evidence from serious

Speaker:

researchers, cancer epidemiologists on five

Speaker:

continents because it doesn't suit his narrative

Speaker:

or his business model. And so we're left with a

Speaker:

choice. Do we follow the global consensus of

Speaker:

scientists, or do we buy into the gospel according

Speaker:

to a man whose medical insights can be measured in

Speaker:

the half life of a supplement fad? I'm your chief

Speaker:

medical explanation. It's Dr. Terry Simpson, and

Speaker:

this is Fork U Fork University, where we make

Speaker:

sense of the madness, bust a few myths, and teach

Speaker:

you a little bit about food and medicine. Mark

Speaker:

Hyman didn't start out as the the guru you see

Speaker:

today. He was once a family doctor, then a spa

Speaker:

doctor. Then he discovered something far more

Speaker:

profitable than medicine. Selling supplements and

Speaker:

pseudoscience. Out of that came functional

Speaker:

medicine. What is functional medicine? Well, if

Speaker:

you're a nurse, a dentist, or even a chiropractor,

Speaker:

you can take a six month zoom course and suddenly

Speaker:

call yourself a functional medicine doctor. You've

Speaker:

probably seen the ads for the 300 tests they'll

Speaker:

run on you for a few hundred dollars each. So why

Speaker:

don't real physicians order 300 tests at once?

Speaker:

Because modern medicine is based on history and a

Speaker:

physical exam. If you shotgun three to 400 lab

Speaker:

tests, you will always find some abnormalities

Speaker:

statistically guaranteed. And once you've scared a

Speaker:

patient with those numbers, you just happen to

Speaker:

have the solution. A few hundred dollars worth of

Speaker:

supplements every month. Maybe supplement really

Speaker:

does stand for supplemental income. For a while,

Speaker:

Hyman even carried the banner of the prestigious

Speaker:

Cleveland Clinic. Why they eventually parted ways,

Speaker:

no one knows. But what we do know is Hyman is

Speaker:

camera ready. He has just enough jargon to impress

Speaker:

the non doctor and his platitudes are exceeded

Speaker:

only by his inability or unwillingness to read

Speaker:

scientific research correctly.

Speaker:

Which brings us to his latest misfire. On

Speaker:

September 19, Mark Hyman tweeted that researchers

Speaker:

analyzed the NHANES 3 data from 15,937 US adults

Speaker:

followed for 20 to 30 years. According to Hyman.

Speaker:

They found no link between animal protein and

Speaker:

mortality and, um, even a modest reduction in

Speaker:

cancer deaths with higher animal protein intake.

Speaker:

Sounds like good news, right? Steak every night.

Speaker:

But not so fast. NHANES is actually a valuable

Speaker:

data set. It's helped us learn a lot about diet

Speaker:

and health in America. It covers a large diverse

Speaker:

population and tracks outcomes over decades.

Speaker:

That's the good news. The bad news. The NHAIDES

Speaker:

relies on a single 24 hour dietary recall. Asking

Speaker:

someone once what they ate yesterday and then

Speaker:

projecting that forward over decades. Worse, it

Speaker:

lumps salmon, bacon, chicken, yogurt and steak

Speaker:

into one bucket called animal protein. That kind

Speaker:

of broad brush smooths over critical differences.

Speaker:

Fish is not bacon, chicken is not salami, and milk

Speaker:

is not steak. We have learned things from the

Speaker:

NHANES study, yes, but anyone who reads these

Speaker:

studies for a living will tell you the skill is

Speaker:

knowing how to separate good data from junk

Speaker:

analysis. And Hyman's is, unfortunately, junk

Speaker:

analysis. So let's go to the evidence. When you

Speaker:

turn to systematic reviews and large cohort

Speaker:

studies, the picture becomes clear and far more

Speaker:

precise than the NHANES snapshot. Let's look at

Speaker:

red and processed meats. Multiple independent

Speaker:

studies across different populations consistently

Speaker:

show the same thing. Higher intake means higher

Speaker:

cancer risks. Add 50 to 70 grams a day of red or

Speaker:

unprocessed meat and colorectal cancer risk rises

Speaker:

15 to 32%. Processed meats carry an even greater

Speaker:

risk. Let's go to fish. Several carefully

Speaker:

separated analyses show that 50 grams a day lowers

Speaker:

colorectal cancer risk by, uh, 4%. Pescatarians,

Speaker:

those who eat fish predominantly as their meat

Speaker:

source, have roughly, uh, a 9% lower overall

Speaker:

cancer risk than regular meat eaters. Poultry?

Speaker:

Well, independent studies show that it's neutral

Speaker:

to maybe even slightly protective. Unlike red

Speaker:

meat, poultry hasn't been linked to higher

Speaker:

colorectal cancer risk when carefully analyzed.

Speaker:

What about dairy? You know, Greek yogurt? Large

Speaker:

cohorts demonstrate that milk and calcium lower

Speaker:

the colorectal cancer risk. But at very high

Speaker:

intakes, dairy, especially milk, has been linked

Speaker:

to increased risk of prostate and endometrial

Speaker:

cancer. Now let's just contrast this with plant

Speaker:

protein. And the data here is so remarkably

Speaker:

consistent. Higher plant protein is associated

Speaker:

with a lower risk of overall cancer incidence and

Speaker:

cancer mortality, particularly when plant protein

Speaker:

replaces animal protein, especially red and

Speaker:

processed meats. Multiple prospective cohorts,

Speaker:

meaning we take a group of people and we follow

Speaker:

them over time and, and meta analysis, meaning

Speaker:

we've taken a lot of these studies together, show

Speaker:

that plant protein is Inversely associated with

Speaker:

all cause cardiovascular mortality, meaning it's

Speaker:

heart healthy. And when we substitute animal

Speaker:

protein with plant protein, it reduces the overall

Speaker:

risk of total and site specific cancers,

Speaker:

especially colorectal. Now here's the key. Every

Speaker:

major cancer body, whether it's the American

Speaker:

Cancer Society, the World Cancer Research Fund,

Speaker:

the European Union, or cancer research institutes

Speaker:

in Canada, Australia and beyond, document these

Speaker:

same trends. The problem isn't with protein

Speaker:

itself. It's with lumping it all together, as N.

Speaker:

Hayden's does. That fuzzes the picture. But when

Speaker:

you separate the sources, as these independent,

Speaker:

carefully done studies have, the information

Speaker:

becomes crystal clear. Red and processed meat

Speaker:

increases cancer risk. Fish tends to protect.

Speaker:

Poultry is neutral. Dairy is mixed. And plant

Speaker:

protein is protective, especially when it replaces

Speaker:

red and processed meats. Now, Hyman writes, I

Speaker:

Recommend Aiming for 4 to 6 ounces of high quality

Speaker:

animal protein per meal, twice a day. Now, that

Speaker:

might sound like sensible advice, but this isn't

Speaker:

what cancer prevention is made up for. This is

Speaker:

bodybuilding math dressed up as medicine. Follow

Speaker:

that prescription, literally, and you're eating

Speaker:

steak at lunch, steak at dinner, with eggs,

Speaker:

poultry and dairy filling in the gaps. That's not

Speaker:

building resilience, that's building cancer risks.

Speaker:

Multiple cohort studies show that diets highest in

Speaker:

red and processed meats, the very food his

Speaker:

prescription promotes, carry the highest rates of

Speaker:

colorectal, breast and endometrial cancer

Speaker:

substitution. Studies are clear. Replace red meat

Speaker:

with plant protein or fish and the risk goes down.

Speaker:

Follow his advice and it goes up. And here's the

Speaker:

kicker. There is no cancer society, no cardiology

Speaker:

body, no public health organization on earth that

Speaker:

recommends 1 gram of protein per pound of body

Speaker:

weight. Every major health body recommends the

Speaker:

opposite. Cut red and processed meats and replace

Speaker:

them with other healthier sources. Now contrast

Speaker:

that with the Mediterranean diet, the most studied

Speaker:

diet for longevity. It allows up to 4 ounces of

Speaker:

red meat in a day or less. And people who follow

Speaker:

it don't just live longer, they live healthier

Speaker:

with lower cancer and heart disease rates. So when

Speaker:

Hyman prescribes his four to six ounces twice

Speaker:

daily, the question is, is he reading the data or

Speaker:

is he just selling to the low carb crowd? Because

Speaker:

it isn't medicine, it's marketing.

Speaker:

Next on his thread, Hyman advises, and I quote,

Speaker:

choose grass fed pasture, raised meat, organic

Speaker:

poultry and eggs, wild caught fish. They're higher

Speaker:

in omega 3s, B12, zinc, and lower in hormones,

Speaker:

antibio and inflammatory fats. Now that sounds

Speaker:

great, but here's the truth. The difference

Speaker:

between grass fed and corn fed beef is minimal

Speaker:

when it comes to cancer risk. Grass fed beef may

Speaker:

have a touch more Omega 3s, but it's still red

Speaker:

meat. It is still produced in the same DNA

Speaker:

damaging compounds when grilled or smoked. And the

Speaker:

biggest difference? Taste. Grass fed beef often

Speaker:

tastes grassy or gamey. Corn fed beef is richer,

Speaker:

marbled. And frankly, I'll admit I prefer the

Speaker:

taste of corn fed beef. But preference doesn't

Speaker:

change cancer data. If you want real nutritional

Speaker:

benefit, you'd be far better off eating farmed

Speaker:

fish other than any kinds of beef. Fish has more

Speaker:

omega 3s, fewer carcinogens, and protective effect

Speaker:

against colorectal cancer. Choosing grass fed over

Speaker:

corn fed steak isn't a health choice. It's a

Speaker:

palate choice. So when Hyman pitches quality meat

Speaker:

as though a, uh, marketing label erases decades of

Speaker:

cancer research, he isn't giving medical advice,

Speaker:

he's selling a lifestyle brand. Hyman also wrote,

Speaker:

quote, for decades, scientists have thought high

Speaker:

protein raised cancer risk by raising IGF1. But

Speaker:

this study showed there was no link between IGF1

Speaker:

and mortality. This is a classic sleight of hand,

Speaker:

IGF1, which is a pathway. It's not the whole

Speaker:

story. But cancer begins with DNA damage. When red

Speaker:

meat is processed, it forms nitrates and nitrites

Speaker:

that become carcinogens. When red meat is grilled

Speaker:

or charred, it produces heterocyclic amines and

Speaker:

polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. These chemicals

Speaker:

damage DNA directly. And if your repair systems

Speaker:

fail, mutations build and cancer can begin. So to

Speaker:

say no IGF link means no risk is like pointing at

Speaker:

the matchbook and ignoring the bonfire. The risk

Speaker:

isn't theory, it's chemistry. Hyman closes with.

Speaker:

Moderate intake of animal protein does not raise

Speaker:

risk. Prioritize nutrient dense sources, balance

Speaker:

with colorful plants, and lifestyle factors like

Speaker:

smoking and inactivity matter more than protein

Speaker:

intake. Sure, plants help. Fruits, vegetables, and

Speaker:

whole grains do mitigate some of the cancer risk

Speaker:

of unprocessed red meat. That's good news. But

Speaker:

plants don't cancel out bacon. A salad with your

Speaker:

hot dog doesn't erase the hot dog. And I love a

Speaker:

Chicago style hot dog that has lots of vegetables

Speaker:

on it. And relish. It's delicious. But smoking

Speaker:

inactivity are stronger risk factors than diet.

Speaker:

But that doesn't mean diet doesn't matter. Smoking

Speaker:

is worse than asbestos, too, but that doesn't make

Speaker:

asbestos safe. Cancer risk is cumulative. Every

Speaker:

preventable risk counts. So when Hyman wraps

Speaker:

himself up in a platitude about colorful plants,

Speaker:

he's not doing science, he's doing spin. So here's

Speaker:

the bottom don't be fooled by viral nutrition

Speaker:

tweets. The overwhelming evidence shows that red

Speaker:

and processed meat raise cancer risk, fish helps,

Speaker:

poultry is neutral, dairy is mixed, and plant

Speaker:

protein is protective, especially when it replaces

Speaker:

red and processed meats. And as much as I would

Speaker:

love to sit down and have a big steak every night,

Speaker:

I don't because I believe the data. And the data

Speaker:

says less red and processed meat, more fish, more

Speaker:

plants, and better health. For references and the

Speaker:

full breakdown, check the blog

Speaker:

post@yourdoctorsorders.com and 4Q.com Please

Speaker:

subscribe to this podcast, share it with friends

Speaker:

and help spread the evidence, not the hype. This

Speaker:

podcast was distributed by our friends at Simpler

Speaker:

Media and my good friend the cod pod God, Mr. Evo

Speaker:

Terra. And remember, while I am a board certified

Speaker:

physician, I am not your physician. Please talk

Speaker:

with your board certified doctor, not a

Speaker:

chiropractor, certainly not a functional medicine

Speaker:

doctor and a registered dietitian before making

Speaker:

any big changes to your diet. Yes, I still eat red

Speaker:

meat. I sometimes have tofu. I probably should

Speaker:

have it more often. And you should too. Oh, and

Speaker:

here's a culinary tip. When you like your steak,

Speaker:

marinate it in some rosemary that actually cuts

Speaker:

down on some of the heterocyclic amines and

Speaker:

produces less carcinogenic compounds when it's

Speaker:

grilled. Culinary tip for the day from the doctor.

Speaker:

Alright everybody, have a good week.

Speaker:

All right? Ivo, after all this protein talk, fish

Speaker:

tacos or bacon cheeseburger? Which one's going on

Speaker:

your plate? Me. I kind of like the fish tacos

Speaker:

around here. They're freaking delicious.

Speaker:

>> Speaker B: Oh yeah, fish tacos have been my go to for quite a

Speaker:

while now. They're amazing. Speaking of which, I

Speaker:

didn't edit out when you mistakenly called me the

Speaker:

cod podfather.

Speaker:

>> Dr. Terry Simpson: You know, because I like Code M.

Links

Chapters

Video

More from YouTube