This episode brings Andy, Jo, and Emily back together after a busy fortnight that saw the Kids Media Club divide and conquer — Emily and Andy heading to KidScreen in San Diego while Jo hosted the Kids and Teens Summit at MIP London. Here's what they came away with.

The hierarchy is gone — and that's now official. Both events reflected something the podcast has been saying for a while: TV no longer sits at the top of the kids media food chain. YouTube, Roblox, and broadcast were all on equal footing — on the panels, and in the rooms. That shift from polite tolerance of digital platforms to genuine integration feels like a genuine turning point.

KidScreen got intentional about YouTube and Roblox. Rather than token sessions, this year's programming offered real depth — from 101-level introductions to developer showcases — signalling that the industry has accepted these platforms as core infrastructure for young audiences, not add-ons.

Jonathan Haidt's keynote caused friction. The Anxious Generation author's appearance divided the room, given that the very conference schedule celebrated platforms he believes are harmful to children. It made for an interesting tension — and a useful reminder that the debate around kids, screens, and wellbeing is far from settled.

Social media bans: well-intentioned, but complicated. The team unpacks the nuance that came out of both events and the Children's Media Foundation day. Outright bans may actually let platforms off the hook. The COPPA regulations are held up as a cautionary tale — well-intentioned legislation that may have done unintended damage to the kids content ecosystem, with YouTube monetisation for children's content reduced to around 30% of what it once was.

Kids media is facing a potential market failure. TV commissions for children's content were down 20% in 2025 — more than double the decline seen in other genres. Combined with reduced YouTube monetisation, the financial incentive to make content specifically for kids is shrinking. Some producers are already quietly dropping the word "kids" from how they describe themselves — something the team finds genuinely alarming.

Roblox is getting ahead of the crosshairs. Andrew Bareza from Twin Atlas (the studio behind Creatures of Sonaria and various Lego activations) addressed safety concerns directly and clearly at MIP London — walking through the toolsets Roblox is rolling out and demonstrating how brand-safe, purposeful activation on the platform is very much possible.

The BBC and YouTube partnership: a front door, not a full commitment. Jo hosted the BBC and YouTube in a fireside that got unexpectedly candid. The BBC's suite of seven YouTube channels won't simply mirror their broadcast output — the strategy is promos, tactical full episodes around new series launches, and some YouTube-first commissions (including a Next Step micro-drama). The goal is to use YouTube as a gateway to iPlayer, though whether a generation raised on YouTube will follow that path remains an open question.

The Sidemen are rewriting the rules on appointment viewing. Long-form content, licensed TV formats (a Family Fortunes rework pulled from Fremantle's archive got 3 million views in 24 hours), and a focus on watch time over view counts — the Sidemen's keynote at MIP London was a masterclass in how creators are evolving into something closer to TV studios, and why that matters for the future of format licensing.

Despite a lot of hard truths, both events left the team with a clear impression: the people still in the room are passionate, pragmatic, and not going anywhere without a fight.

The Kids Media Club podcast is open for sponsorship and we're changing things up a little bit where we're going to be offering feature episodes ahead of major industry events like Licensing Expo, Annecy, ble, mipcom, Toy Fair and more.

Why don't you strategically put a conversation in the ears of your stakeholders before these events so you can warm up conversations before you go.

Reach out to us individually on LinkedIn or drop us an email at infoidsmediaclubpodcast.com.

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Kids Meet a Club podcast.

I'm very relieved because that opening theme tune music didn't last for like hours in the same way that it did at the beginning of our Kids Screen, a panel session where it seemed to go on for an inordinate amount of time.

Anyway, we're back in the, we're back at home now.

How are you guys?

Good.

Yes.

We, the Kids Media Club podcast, divided and conquered the world of kids media transatlantically, didn't we?

Yes.

I saw your session on the big stage looking right at home up there.

Even with your extended intro.

Yeah, the extended intro through me as well.

I didn't know we had that.

Maybe we need to make a TikTok.

I think that was my fault.

I think I, I thought, oh, there'd be a bit of us kind of getting ready and maybe we could do with a 30 second intro.

But then, I don't know, it seemed to drag on forever as we were just sat there waiting for it to finish.

I feel like I should have had it as my walk on music maybe for MIP London, Mr.

Trick there.

Next time we divide and conquer, I'll take my own walk on music.

Yes.

Intro.

So how was Kids Green?

I'm going to throw it to you two first.

How was it?

First impressions, Emily?

Yeah, it was.

The weather was good.

No, it was good.

So based in San Diego, new hotel.

We spoke with this with Eric Calderon as well in the bonus episode yesterday.

But

smaller attendance.

That was the word on the ground.

It's kind of, I always find it difficult to judge attendance when it's in a different space.

But there was definitely more space for sure.

You know, I felt like the Sunday was a bit weird.

The Sunday was kind of quiet and then the Monday, the kids green energy really took off and like the, the, the, the bubbling hubbub of like all the conversations Monday, Tuesday definitely were in session in a major way.

Yeah.

So that it was good.

I mean I feel like the sessions were very intentional.

I feel like before, I think, well, I've only been, this is only my third time ever going to kid screen.

But before it's been like bit of YouTube here, a bit of Roblox there, where I think the kids screen guys put real intentionality into having like extensive YouTube programs, extensive Roblox programs.

I don't know how much, you know, begging or liaising they had to do to get real boots on the ground there.

In terms of Roblox developers, Roblox Studios, YouTube creators, YouTube Studios, YouTube providers.

Right.

Like they.

It was, it was.

Whereas before it's been like Roblox and YouTube are allowed into this arena.

It was a lot more like, yeah, this is their arena too.

Like, let's just get on with it, you know.

So I definitely think that the, the conference schedule really reflected that in a major way.

And I had all sorts of sessions from like 101.

Right.

Like Stephen Damian Go just doing like, you know, basics of Roblox for people who need to know, which would have been more of the standard session before up into, you know, meet the Roblox developers or these are people who are activating on Roblox.

Like there was lots of, you know, lots of different layers to the way it was, the way those two subjects were engaged with, which I think was necessary, definitely.

But also like, no, it was the right way of running.

Arguably overdue.

But yes, good that they are now a standard part of the schedule and not relegated to side rooms, which I think was the case before.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I felt like the, the hierarchy, the, the kind of traditional hierarchy of TV had been kind of well and truly scrambled and so there wasn't a kind of TV at the top of the hierarchy and then kind of social media further down.

It was basically everyone on the same playing field.

Yeah, I would echo that actually with MIP London and the Kids and Teens Summit that I was hosting.

And in a way quite nice that it was similar in both events.

Given that, I think we can pride ourselves on being the voices that have been talking about this for a long time in terms of how Roblox and YouTube and TV, there is no hierarchy anymore.

They are all part of a young person's media diet.

And at different points in time, each one is equally important or one more important than the other.

But there's certainly not overall one that sits atop the tree anymore.

And that was certainly the case at the Kids and Teens Summit.

Same thing.

We had YouTube next to broadcast, next to producers next to Roblox.

And what was nice was that in the room, you Saw a much more even spread.

Now, it used to be it was the TV execs.

So it wasn't just the panels and the content that reflected TV's dominance.

It was the execs in the room and the periphery.

You might have got the odd kind of Roblox or YouTube rep. No, now they were all mixed in together, all sat amongst one another.

You got Banerjay, sat next to YouTube, sat next to Andrew Bareza, who was there from Twin Atlas, who are the studio behind Creatures of Cenario, and a lot of the Lego activations.

And it was really great to see everybody in that kind of big kind of mishmash now rather than in separate little fractions.

And was there any sort of tension between.

By having kind of all of those players in the same room now at the same level?

Were there any tensions there at mip?

Because I think there were.

There were.

I was kind of.

I picked up a few bits of tension at Kids Screen in terms of people coming from different.

Tea.

Sorry, we need some tea.

Give us the tea.

So one of the keynotes was Jonathan Haidt.

Is there Heights?

Oh, yes.

Anxious Generation.

Yeah, so he's the author of Anxious Generation.

So he gave a keynote that he opened up by saying.

He looked at the schedule of talks before him and he noticed that there was one on Roadblocks and then there was one on Microdramas.

And basically he.

He didn't kind of.

He didn't kind of.

He was under no kind of illusions that he.

The audience was under no illusions that he didn't agree with those and he thought it was a bad idea for.

For people to produce in micro dramas for children or for to be doing social media for kids, because that was his whole.

His whole bit, really.

And it was interesting because as we discussed, there were a lot of panels that had been, you know, specifically about YouTube or specifically about Roblox.

So it kind of divided the room really.

And you got a sense that even though everyone was on the same playing field, even within that space, people were coming in it from slightly different areas.

I thought it was interesting that Kids Screen kind of allowed the space for all of those sides of the debate.

But there were definitely some kind of conflicts in terms of point of view there.

And I just wonder if there was a similar thing.

Mip.

Yeah, there was, there was.

I mean, the Kids and Teens Summit was just a morning.

So we had half a dozen different sessions from data from Ampere and Glanz to State of the Industry, where we had everybody from Banerjee to the BBC, to producers, to Marcus from the gang who are a Roblox studio there talking about the whole gamut of challenges.

So it kind of cropped up there.

There was no one session that really talked about the challenges obviously that we've spoken about a lot on this podcast before about social media, potential bans, age restrictions should short form be pushed to kids that we can extend that maybe to micro dramas.

Of course it's not perfect.

So there is a tension in how media is changing, the business of media is changing what that means for young people and their well being.

But there's also a tension in how yeah, TV is no longer at the core of it anymore.

There were some people there who when Andrew and Andrew gave a great keynote about Roblox and I'd asked him specifically address the safety issue up top.

A lot of people in that room that will be top of mind.

And he went through very eloquently about the tool set.

And again we've talked about it on here about the tool set that Roblox is rolling out.

They're almost getting ahead of those crosshairs we spoke about a couple of episodes ago.

So he really clearly set out what the challenges were, what the tool sets were.

Obviously then he spoke about not only Creatures of Sonari, which is their really, really, really successful game and has a really loyal fan base.

Not specifically made for kids, but they've worked a lot with Lego.

Now Lego are very careful about the spaces in which they activate and how they do it and they trust Twin Atleth to do it right.

So I felt he actually he grasped the Nettle up top which was great, but then went on to show how you could activate on there in a brand safe way, but also how you could do it in a way that services the rest of your business like Lego Ninjago.

They are there to grow an ip.

So I thought that was really interesting.

So maybe little tensions cropped up within other panels, but less so.

So a keynote that really that went did the same as Jonathan because that's the kind of.

That's the thing right now obviously with the social media bans looming and YouTube part of that TV is Roblox part of that in Australia.

I need to go and double check that it's not.

It's not.

But Australian public to rolling it in,

banning kids off or age, restricting them off it off it pushes it, it absolves the platforms of responsibility when kids get around those restrictions.

Right.

And the one thing I have always observed about Roblox is they they acknowledge that kids are there.

They acknowledge that they're there in volumes.

They will never get it right.

Like they won't.

Like they'll always.

You will always take pot shots, you know, because it's just never perfect.

Like, it's not.

It's not perfect, unfortunately, in the digital world.

But, you know, they seem to be making.

They seem to be trying to really invest in things.

I saw they announced a parent council last week.

They're rolling out, you know, they've got

age gating, so you.

Yeah, you can't chat.

There were already age restrictions as to what you were would be recommended and what would be surfaced in search.

So there are lots of safeguards that are already being rolled out and as we've mentioned before, sometimes they roll out safety measures and it breaks games and the developer base actually will not be very happy and ultimately they have to work those bugs out.

But that shows a commitment in that they're willing to roll out those tool sets and then figure out ironing out the wrinkles.

And when the developers are moaning that it's impacted their game, they then try and fix it.

It's not a reason not to roll it out, which is.

It can be unusual in tech platforms.

They're not normally that willing to be preemptive.

So I do think that they are one of the ones that is being kind of forthcoming with potential solutions, even when they temporarily break the mechanics of the platform.

That's the impression I got the Children's Summit as well, which was that the mood.

So the Children's Summit was in London the week.

Cheeky slots.

Yes.

Busy couple of weeks.

The week before, maybe under.

The week before Kids cream.

That's right.

And you're kind of primarily to.

To discuss and look for solutions to kind of the issues around social media and safety for children on online platforms, but also around monetization and funding of children's content.

And I expected it to be more bullish in terms of a social media ban, but I felt it was quite nuanced in terms of.

In some ways, the general impression I got is that it would be absolving platforms of their responsibility to just do an outright ban.

And.

And it reminded me of the complaints people made about the high fat sugar and salt advertising regulations that were brought in, I don't know, 20 or so years ago.

And ITV then took that as an opportunity to basically pull out of children's programming entirely.

And it was probably.

It gave them an exit that they'd be maybe looking for before.

So I think the idea was to avoid that same mistake for, for the kind of current era.

Yeah.

And I did tuck into one of the sessions that was posted this week because I wasn't able to make the Children's Media foundation day.

And I did.

There was one session that somebody had suggested that no phones for kids under 16 and I really had to shake my head, yeah, good luck with putting that particular genie back in the bottle.

But then also as a parent of two boys who are older than 16 now, you know, and many other parents in a similar situation, that's how you keep tams on and you make sure that you know they're going to come home for dinner because they've wandered via the shop and then the park and sometimes you can have a little notification on your phone as to where they are or you can message and say, are you coming back dinner?

So I mean there are other things that are a big positive with those devices in kids pockets, particularly when they're at high school.

I perhaps felt haven't been acknowledged in that particular sweeping statement.

Yeah, he was kind of, he was definitely very, very, I don't know, he was very kind of, I don't know, kind of the right way to express it.

But yeah, he uncom.

He's very uncompromising, I think uncompromising in his position.

And he was a teacher as, as I remember.

And I think there's definitely an argument for, for maybe a mobile phone ban while they're at school but, but maybe kind of outside of that, it's a different question.

Well, it's that question of like, so there's brick phones.

Can you get your kids brick phones?

I was just abs that I know it's not kids media but like I would really like to get my parents brick cars.

Cars these days have too many, too many drivers going off, freaking out the

old people and can be just as dangerous.

Oh my word.

Brick.

Brick phones.

Brick cars.

That's my pitch.

I think the question also is like, and this is something that came up when I was a kid's screen, it's like looking at like the YouTube Copa ban, right?

Or the YouTube Copa not banned.

The YouTube Copa ruling, did it benefit kids?

Right.

We're not, I'm not, we're not arguing it was, it was, it was unlawful for YouTube to be, to be contextually targeting kids without parental consent.

But it's like did, did removing that actually help kids?

And I think that's one of the questions that we, we, we rarely ask, you know, things not we personally but you know, when, when, when these are rolled out.

They're rolled out.

There you go.

Now we've done the politics tends to work in a cycle of now we've done the legislation you lobbied first, you got us and then move on as opposed to, you know, revisiting and often considering and implications and wide reaching ecosystem impacts and stuff.

Well, and often the legislature moves so slow that by the time the regulation has been passed, years of years have gone by.

I mean that was one of the things that came up at the Children's Media foundation day that the online, the online harms bill took seven years to get through.

So often by the time regulation is rolled out, the world has changed again.

But you think about where we are now and I have got a stat open at this on my screen at the side of our little window.

That was from Ampere analysis at MIP London about commissions.

Well, so you've got a massive disincentive on YouTube because monetization has been reduced to less than 10% of what it was.

So a financial disincentive, less than 10%

is of the stock.

But I'm better off.

No, no, no.

This is what I'm trying to remember from when we people that we spoke

to, it was around, it was reduced to around 30.

Sorry, I thought that I was like, okay, we need to sign the fire alarm.

Still not enough for a sustainable 100%.

So but that in isolation.

So that tells you the, the subtext.

Other genres suffered a reduction of 9%.

And this is why, I know I sound dramatic, but when I do say that, I wonder whether kids media is headed towards market failure because if the commissioners aren't investing and there's no financial incentive to attract investors or producers that are willing to create on YouTube, we do hit this market failure situation where, yeah, he's going to make content.

Why would you make content?

Yeah, there's definitely danger of that.

I spoke to a distributor at Kids Screen that said they basically made the point that they thought most kids media producers were.

Would end up calling themselves family content producers or producing media for young audiences rather than.

Rather than specifically kids, because kids as a market was becoming more and more challenging.

I mean, going back to the copper thing, the thing that always strikes me is that an enormous amount of data is marshaled before the legislation to kind of lobby for new legislation to be be put in.

But then you don't get a lot of that same data to test whether the legislation has been effective.

So it does feel like there'd be an argument for some kind of sunset clause on some of these to be able to.

To be able to circle back and say, has this achieved what we wanted to achieve and what have been the trade offs?

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

It would be interesting to see if that kind of analysis had been.

Had been done because I don't see.

And.

But just you saying that about the word kids, isn't that a shame that the word kids in a media context is becoming so toxic that people wouldn't want to use it?

Because I mean, I know your head's in your hands, Emily.

That is crazy.

We got to rename the podcast.

What a pain.

People forget who the real victims are here.

Yeah.

Someone has to advocate for it because actually it's a valid point you've made.

You're making if there is such a disincentive to even be aligned to kids media that you consider calling yourself a family or young audience producer, then something is really broken and we've got to bloody fix it.

Yeah, the young audience podcast media.

Podcast doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

No, we're not giving up on kids.

Other people maybe, but we're not giving up.

I know, but it is why I find like.

And I know I dropped a few spicy newsletters at the end of last year and coming into this year because it is it I feel like.

And the conversations we've had over the years, pragmatism with the hint of optimism, love of what we do has kept things positive.

But I do struggle in the, in.

In the light of what like the, the different.

The different currents to.

I find myself struggling to do that a little bit more recently and that I'm not usually that person.

I'm like.

I'm usually like toxic positivity, toxic energy.

Kind of like happy to like be on.

On.

On the happiness train of kids media because it just makes me laugh and makes me joyful and happy.

But yeah, I don't know.

It's a grind.

It's definitely a grind.

Yeah, without a doubt.

Although going back to kids, it did make me optimistic that lots of people seemed to understand the challenges and were working hard to try and find solutions to it.

It felt like the most pragmatically optimistic one I can remember in.

Yeah.

And I think the other thing I'll say is like it was, it was distilled.

I think we used.

I use that work with word Eric.

It was like the people who were there really need to do.

Really needed to do business, you know, so.

And listen, the industry you're working is a privilege, you know, it's, it's, it's not frontline worker.

Right.

So it's.

Yeah, but it is really tough.

And then obviously like on the back of like one of the biggest weeks of news in the entertainment industry where, you know, the pivot from Warner Warner, from Netflix to Paramount.

Right.

Like, yeah,

it's just.

I just don't think I'm gonna watch the next season of the entertainment industry.

Like I'm done.

Like, or maybe I'll just take a break for a year and then I'll come back to my binge season.

Like nine and 10 together.

I don't know.

I just can't take it.

Like.

Yeah, it's.

I'm just flicking through some of the ampere analysis from.

From last week just to see if there's any other things that I can kind of throw in that was positive,

hopeful though not inf.

That would give us a glimmer of hope.

Yes.

Struggling to find that.

No.

What actually what was one of the trend lines was although kids commissions are down, they are down proportionately more from the out of the US So actually the UK and Europe, they're sustaining or stemming said decline a little bit more than perhaps North America is.

The other positive trend was there's gaming ip.

Obviously we've been speaking about this for a long time, but social media first IP so creator led IP from YouTube.

But now increasingly gaming IP are being adapted and again we had Twin Atlas who have creatures of Cenaria which is being adapted for animation.

And we know that Grow a Garden has also been optioned for adaptation into a movie by Story Kitchen.

So there's little kind of pivots, glimmers of hope.

But on the whole it was much like kids screen.

Those that were left in the room were passionate and not going down without a fight, which is good to distill to use that phrase.

And necessity is a Mother of invention, isn't it?

So I feel like we're getting to that stage now.

Yeah.

Yes, yeah, definitely.

I feel like you also might probably have more public service folks talking at Maple London.

Jo, how was.

I can.

Yes, I can tell you.

Session or any of the session that was rather.

We did.

Yes, we had a fireside.

So I was hosting Mari Brewis from YouTube who's head of Mediaco Partnerships and the fabulous Lydia Museibi from BBC Children's who's head of their digital.

Just talking about the announcement.

Of course it was big news that had been announced only a matter of 10 days or two weeks prior.

So we, we dug into it a little bit further about what it meant for these kids channels.

A suite of seven were originally announced.

We talked about how they were looking to curate those because they're not just going to be a straight up lift and shift of what is the broadcast footprint and then put it on YouTube.

So there are, I think there's one called Epic Chaos.

There's obviously going to be a Horrible Histories kind of LED one.

I mean that's such a superb IP that it does warrant a branded channel.

But about the new skill set in how you curate those channels, how you program those channels and what that programming strategy was going to be, which was quite interesting because I think in fact I'm even going to pull up my notes so I can take you through it.

There's kind of a three pronged approach that they are looking to take.

So it will be relatively promo led.

It still feels more like a marketing play than a real programmed destination channel for the BBC.

So YouTube native promos.

But.

But they are still very much looking to drive audiences to iplayer.

Whether that will work or not, I don't know.

Given that YouTube is very much the media infrastructure for a whole generation.

They will use full episodes but they'll be tactical.

So they'll be around new series launches.

There will not be an upload of entire seasons of full episodes.

And again I think I'd perhaps assumed that there would be more full episode usage than I think there perhaps will be.

And of course it will evolve as the over time.

But there will be new YouTube first commissions which they had gone on record as saying.

And one of the ones we talked about was the next step, which is obviously a long running successful series on cbbc been going for years.

And they are looking at creating a micro drama type format around.

Format around the next step that will sit on YouTube as that bridge to then the volume of content, content and catalog content for the next step on iply.

So in that sense I can see very much they're using it as a front door into the BBC.

Given that the BBC's mission is to service the UK population cradle to grave.

We know that young people aren't growing up with a natural affinity to the BBC.

So as a front door, a launchpad, great.

Whether it will work and bring a whole new audience to iplayer in that way, I, I don't know, given how important we know that YouTube is to that to those social first generations.

But really interesting obviously for YouTube from their point of view, being able to see that, say that the BBC is a media partner of theirs, does them a lot of favors, stands them in good stead, particularly when we're looking at regulation and all of those things that we've spoken about.

Um, and obviously YouTube will support the BBC with advice on best practice.

What are those quality principles, thumbnails, hook, channel identity, those skill sets that perhaps the BBC don't have have in house that, that YouTube can help.

And we talked about the, the of course, the YouTube industry program that the two have joined together to run, which is a 10 week course delivered via the National Film Television School, which I actually think is really, is really good.

A mix of TV and digital creators on this course, 50 places.

And that will be, I think that is actually something really positive that they're doing together.

Cool.

Great comprehensive program then.

A very comprehensive program.

It was.

Yeah, I mean we.

And they were both.

You know, the tendency is when you're in a forum like MIP or Kidscreen and you've got two corporates there in YouTube and the BBC, the tendency is it gets very scripted, doesn't it?

And of course you, the PR people sitting on your prep calls.

But I have to say genuinely, both were very open and they were very, very generous and very candid with what they, what they said.

And actually that came back in the feedback from the attendees as well and that they didn't expect quite such candid transparency realness.

But back to your point, Emily, I think everybody acknowledges now it's time for realness.

So it was great that we could reflect that as well.

Grace.

All right, well, listen, I missed you guys a lot.

We missed you.

We missed you, Jo.

Oh, I know.

I missed hanging out in sunny San Diego.

It was a rainy London running between the Savoy and the, Iet the split site thing.

I think everybody had got used to at MIP London now kind of having to run between the various rooms at the Savoy and the Iet but actually it felt, yeah, it felt quite vibrant.

The last thing I'll say we.

Yes, the Sidemen Arcade Media, they did a big keynote and again just goes to show how important creators and YouTube is in that wider infrastructure now.

But yeah, all good.

And what were the takeaways from their keynote?

Long form.

Okay.

Long form on YouTube.

Yeah, appointment viewing.

Sidemen Sunday is doing great.

Sidemen Sunday has been their regular weekly upload for seven, eight years now, if not longer.

Wow.

Again, kind of goes against the perceived wisdom that YouTube, you can't, you can't create appointment viewing on YouTube.

Well, they've proved that you can and side hard not saying that anyway.

Okay.

But so yeah, longer form content.

They are not slave to shorts.

I think now the Sidemen is a creator group.

They've got so many other business interests and calls on their time actually it's a function of just resource that they can't be as prolific as they were.

But handily that reflects what YouTube is moving to, which is a much more premium TV like experience where.

Which doesn't necessarily require volume duration.

Yes.

Longer duration and slightly higher production values.

And as a result the Sidemen last Sunday they did a.

A rework of Family Fortunes that they'd licensed from Fremantle.

So they've been around in Fremantle's format archives and Fremantle have said go for it, you do do your thing.

Which are the amazing.

And the other thing that came out was that they don't arcade and the Sidemen do not stress about view counts anymore.

They look at watch time and average view duration and that is the metric that they worry about.

So it's.

And they kind of know what they're doing.

So I would say that is one piece of advice worth listening to is average view duration.

Don't necessarily stress about view counts.

Interesting.

Wow.

I'm excited about all of the new formats that might be licensed from old TV to YouTube in the future.

Well, I think we're on the cusp of that happening a lot now.

Yeah.

So they did, they did supermarket sweep once before as a bit of a joke and I think Fremantle, who obviously are sitting on a whole raft of formats.

They are, yeah.

I mean Fremantle Masters are of formats.

They clearly spotted something and have said okay, what do you, what do you want to rummage around in the format box and pull out next.

And Family Fortunes was the one from last Sunday and when I looked at the viewing fees they got had about 3 million views in 24 hours.

Yeah, yeah, love it.

There's hope for the TV industry, Ash.

Yes.

Amazing.

Oh well, good to do the fat with you guys again.

Yes, I'd missed you too.

Yeah, it's great to have everyone back.

Okie dokie.

Well, we will be back next week.

Andy, do you want to do the sign off?

Yeah, I'll do the sign off.

So thanks very much for listening everyone and please like and subscribe and you can find us wherever you get your podcast and we will see you guys next week.