Summary

Eviction is a deeply traumatic experience that can have lasting effects on mental health and personal development, as discussed by MaryLayo and her guest, Jo Sama. Both share their personal stories of eviction, reflecting on how these experiences shaped their childhoods and influenced their journeys into adulthood. The conversation highlights the suddenness and urgency of being forced from their homes, along with the feelings of shame and the struggle to maintain a sense of normalcy while navigating the upheaval. Jo articulates the complexities of coping with such events, emphasizing the importance of understanding and addressing the emotional aftermath. This candid dialogue not only sheds light on the realities of eviction but also serves as a call for greater awareness and compassion towards those affected by it.

Shownotes

A heartfelt dialogue unfolds between MaryLayo and her guest Jo Sama, focusing on the harrowing yet relatable topic of eviction. Their conversation explores the often-unspoken emotional toll that comes with being forced from one’s home, a reality that both have faced in their lives. Jo reflects on her childhood, sharing vivid memories of sudden moves and the feelings of loss and uncertainty that accompanied them. The discussion dives deep into the psychological impacts of eviction, emphasizing how such experiences can shape one's identity and sense of belonging.

MaryLayo and Jo also touch on the protective mechanisms individuals adopt in response to trauma, such as humor and emotional suppression. They reflect on the societal stigma surrounding eviction, which often discourages open conversations and leaves those affected feeling isolated and ashamed. Through their shared narratives, they emphasize the importance of breaking the silence and fostering understanding about the realities of housing instability. Jo’s candid reflections on forgiveness—both of her situation and herself—provide a powerful framework for healing and personal growth, illustrating the transformative potential of addressing and sharing one’s pain.

The episode culminates in a broader discussion about resilience and community support, urging listeners to recognize the ongoing impact of eviction on mental health and well-being. MaryLayo and Jo advocate for compassion and awareness, highlighting the need for societal change in how eviction is perceived and discussed. With a spiritual wellness tip to conclude, Mary reinforces the message of hope and restoration, encouraging listeners to empathize with those affected by eviction and to seek connection and support in their own lives.

Welcome to Beyond the smile with me, MaryLayo, a podcast that discusses mental health and spiritual wellbeing. If you like what you hear, please do remember to follow and share.

But before we jump in, there may be episodes that are particularly sensitive for some listeners. And if that applies, then I hope you will join me whenever you feel ready and able.

In today's episode, I'm speaking with a friend, Jo Sama, about eviction, something we both experienced when we were younger. And we share how this affected us growing up. Let's join in the conversation.

So the reason why we're here is to talk about eviction. It's not a pleasant topic at all, but it's something that we've both experienced in the past.

So to start off with growing up, how many times did you experience eviction?

Oh, gosh. So, you know, when you approached me about this, I was like, yeah.

I felt like I'm at a stage in my life where I can talk about this eviction because it's not something that people generally know about me. Probably now they do. But at the time, it wasn't something I spoke about.

Yeah.

And so when you first approached me, I was like, oh, yeah, I can. I feel like I could. I'm at a stage in my life where I could speak about this.

But then when I started to think more about what the word eviction meant for me, it was. It was. It was very interesting because in terms of alifs, that happens probably about three times.

But in terms of eviction, it actually happened more than ten times.

Right. Okay.

So I had to approach my dad about this because obviously I was very young when this occurred. Over a period.

How old, roughly, were you then?

Say the first. So, okay, so the first upheaval, if you like, unexpected upheaval, because I had to look at the definition.

When I started to doubt myself over the word of eviction, I thought, let me have a look at what it says in the dictionary. And it said something along the lines of an unexpected upheaval or ousting, expulsion, ejection from property.

My first memory was when we had moved to Sierra Leone.

Okay.

When I was about six years old, at six, seven. And I remember my dad saying to me, we are. We are going to see Leone tomorrow.

Right.

And up until very suddenly, it was very sudden.

Yeah.

And I just remember thinking, I'm not going to have time to say bye to my friends.

Yeah, of course.

And so, yeah, that happened. And I don't know the reason why we had to move so quick.

And now when I reflect back I'm thinking obviously there was something going on there and I haven't gone that far back with my dad, but it just.

I always just remember having this sense of this kind of urgency and sudden, like, 1 minute you're here, 1 minute you're not in your property anywhere anymore. The place that you've been for the last four or five years.

Yeah.

But then the first time that I actually acknowledged it to be eviction, like the bailiffs and that. That was probably. No, that was definitely when I was 14. So it's when I was doing my GCSE's, I was doing my GCSE's. And again, it's.

It feels like a, like a. Almost like a vague memory, but it was case of, we've got a movie within the week.

Okay. Okay. Was you actually doing your exams or was this during exams?

So it would be like. So it's probably the same age as series now, my daughter.

Okay. Yeah. So, like, probably my experience was a bit older than, you know, when you. During your GCSE's.

So from my memory, and I know what you mean by being a pre because there's certain things that I remember very clearly because it was all of a sudden and I had to rush out the house and I know find my dad because he wasn't in the house and the bailiffs had arrived. But there are things that are very blurry or I don't really remember.

So both studying.

Yeah, we we were both. So, yeah, both, both studying. Both students and. Yeah, so it was the suddenness of it and it was a home really, that I. It was the only home I knew.

So that's, I guess, is the difference between my experience and yours is that I was actually born into that house, as in not born in the house, but you know, when I was born. Yeah, but, yeah, born. Born there. And until I was. Yeah, yeah. Raised there.

It was my childhood home until I was almost adulthood and then, yeah, forced out. And you're right, actually, the word eviction, when I think about it, it's a very brutal word. You know? It's a very brutal, harsh word. Yeah.

So thanks for taking me through what you can remember. So in each stage or each occasion, did you know it was coming then, because you said you had a week's notice.

Okay, so the. Okay, so the. I'll separate the. The unexpected moves from the actual evictions. So, as I said, the actual evictions were free.

So there's one at 14 when I was doing my GCC's. And that's when we moved to a hostel in Paddington.

Okay.

So I was commuting to school from Paddington. School was in Forest Gate. It was at the time.

So for those who aren't familiar with London or even the UK, that's a bit of a. That is a distance. That's a distance. It's not local.

No. It's one side of London to the other side of London in my school uniform with my younger sister. And I didn't tell a soul.

I didn't want anyone to judge or anything like that. Or I guess there's a sense of shame.

Yeah.

That was then. And then the second time was when I came out of university. So it was the first year I was home. And that time is very, very.

That's probably the clearest. I don't know if it's because I'm more of an adult. And I think, as well, I had a sense that something was coming.

Even though I approached my dad and asked, what's wrong? His way of dealing with it was not to frighten us. So he was, like, wrong. So he said there was nothing.

And in that case, they did turn up the morning and we were all in our, like, pajamas and stuff. And it was a place where we need to leave the house in an hour.

Right. So similar to, really, my experience, because it was very sudden. Yeah. They. The Baileys had turned up.

Yeah.

And they were there and I could hear a conversation when I came, you know, close to listen and see what was going on. That was literally. Maybe it wasn't so early in the morning for us, but it was sudden. We had to leave immediately, basically.

So you opened the door?

So I didn't open the door. I think it was my mum. Yeah, sure. It was my mum. Yeah.

But then, you know, my instructions were to go and go and find my dad, you know, because he wasn't in the house, so. Yeah.

And that is what one thing I do remember very clearly, leaving the house in that kind of emergency, you know, like life or death, kind of running, running, running. Trying to find my dad. Yeah.

Very traumatic. And actually, did you have a chance to grab anything? Because I can't remember what.

Yeah.

I remember thinking, I should take the photo albums.

Right. Yeah.

And what did you decide?

So this is. This is the bit, what I say, what I mean by it was. It's very blurry for me because I don't even remember that.

I just remember us sitting in the car, you know, because that was the only place where we could sit and be outside the house while we try to sort things out, while things were trying to be sorted out. So, yeah, I don't remember what we managed to take. I'm sure we took few stuff, so. Not a few, like, quite a bit, but few stuff.

Yeah, but how long did they give you?

This isn't unknown to me, jo, so I just know that for me it was unexpected, but who knows? I'm sure my dad knew something. Not sure how much my mum knew, I don't know, to be honest. But I just know it was sudden and it was unexpected.

So, yeah. Didn't have any warning or any way to prepare.

If you can prepare, you know, if there is such a thing of preparing, I guess preparing would be, like, material stuff that you'd want to take with you at the very least. Yeah.

There's overlaps in that, in that regard, in that kind of sense of urgency to leave and the fear that you feel because, I mean, especially in your case, where you've been in that space more or less your whole life.

Yeah.

I almost feel like by the time the second eviction happened for us, I feel like there was a certain part of me that knew. I think that's why I had the presence of mind to say, let me take the pictures.

Right. Right.

The first time it happened, we lost everything. And the only thing I could think to myself is, if we're going to lose everything, let me at least have the pictures.

Unfortunately, my mom said at the time, don't take the pictures because we'll get the house, we'll get back in. I think she's very hopeful. And like yourself, I don't know how much you knew or understood about sex.

Yeah.

And we didn't subsequently lost them. All right.

Right. Okay. Okay. So something that you said actually reminded me of or was very similar to how I felt. Just in terms of sharing. I didn't share with.

I didn't share with anyone, not any of my friends at the time here. And I can't remember how long it took me to share with, you know, my closest friends. So I think I do remember sharing it with a friend. I just.

I'm not sure how long after it happened. So I've no idea. I'll be guessing to say, oh, maybe it's a year or some months or a couple of years. I really can't remember.

See, this is what I mean by the blurriness. I just. I remember sharing with her because I wanted to tell her, but I don't remember how long afterwards it was. And I.

And I know that I didn't share it with even my close friends. I just remember sharing it with one and I think it's. I possibly drip fed it to some people around me.

Yeah.

Over time.

Over time. Long period. Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah. I don't. At the time, I know. I didn't tell anyone.

Yeah.

I don't think. I don't think my parents, even both the teachers, but, yeah, there is a sense of. I don't know.

Is it because you're kind of in a state of shock and you're processing it yourself and you kind of have to make sense of it yourself before you can, then. I know in my case, it was. There was definitely elements of shame.

That's what I can identify with. I don't think it was the shock. I think it was the. The shame of it, you know? You know, it's something you don't want to share with people.

It's not a good thing to happen, and it's. Especially at that age, actually, at any age, I would say that, you know, it's not something that someone would want to share easily. Yeah.

Especially when you're a. Well, as a teenager. Yeah. It just wasn't, I guess. Yeah. I don't. I don't even know how my friends could have spotted plucking it in.

In the canteen. Well, by the way, I got a.

Fix, you know, on the way to the cinema, you know.

Yeah, it's not that. Yeah. I guess because there's so many hop heavy topics.

Anyway, when you're a teenager that you're kind of going through, and then the addition of, like, losing your home and destabilizing your families just feels like there's no. There's no place for it.

Yeah. It's a lot to share with, you know, another young person. You know, I think it may be different if you're, you know, an adult or if you are. Yeah.

The homeowner and, you know, you're sharing maybe family or close friends because there's ways that they can actually support you.

Yeah.

But as a teenager, I can certainly identify with the shame of it, and it's something that I didn't share for years with some of my friends, you know, some of my close friends. So it's just something that. Yeah, that happened and really got on with it. Got on with the adjustment, that sharp adjustment, because it's. Yeah, yeah.

And getting on with it, isn't it? It is. I mean, especially. Maybe it's cultural. I don't know. But it's very much like, you can't do anything about this now. Get on with it, you know?

Yeah, get on. You know, if you've got your GCC, you're studying, just kind of move on. You don't have that.

You don't have that, I guess, permission to kind of just wallow, if you like, in the fact that it's happened. It's almost like. Yep. Next, what do you do?

Yeah, and I think there might be something about protecting the adults in your life, you know, so, like my parents, perhaps, you know, because if I was then to be bawling every day and crying, number one, how's that going to help us as a family? And I wouldn't. And I wouldn't want them to feel any worse, you know, than they already do or did, you know, at that time. So there's probably.

There's probably something about maturing and playing that part in terms of getting on with it and doing what you need to do in terms of having a routine and getting on with the things that you need to get on with, like studying, going to school as, you know, college, or, you know, maybe familiarizing yourself with the area, you know, that you are now in, because it's a a. It's a new area.

What did you go on to? Sorry, do you mind me asking?

No, that's.

Where did you.

So, straight. Yeah. So straight away we went to a bed and breakfast. So that's where we were housed immediately.

And then from there, we went to a temporary accommodation, and then we moved to another temporary accommodation, and then. Yeah, and then we moved to where that became home for us. Yeah. A more permanent place that became home. Yeah.

And, you know, and I have, you know, I've got memories of, you know, those different places where we stayed, but. Yeah, so it's a weird one because I don't. It was never really home for me.

You know, home was where I lived from birth till, you know, near adulthood, and nothing else could compare to that. So, like, looking back, I think of it as where we stayed for a temporary period of time and especially the bed and breakfast.

I have very, very vague and few memories of that time. I just. Yeah, I just know where it was and that it was for a short season. I know we've kind of talked about how we coat and how you cope.

Jo, in terms of just getting on with it, thinking back, was there any.

It's an obvious question, and probably, you know, there's probably going to be an obvious answer to this, but what would you say in terms of the impact on your mental health and wellbeing, aside from the shame factor that you've already mentioned?

Impact. I think you said something earlier about keeping as a child in having been involved in an eviction.

You're protecting the adults, and to a certain extent, that maturation that you have to go through to protect them also means that you're suppressing.

Yeah, yeah, yes.

Asterisks of yourself.

So I would say, you know, for me, it meant it took me longer to get a real sense of self because I was kind of almost deferring my development for the wider family. And I don't.

I don't even go through something as traumatic and as big as that without it affecting you on a psychological level so deeply that it kind of ripples through. Definitely in my case, through the first, early stages of adulthood, I would say up until even to my late twenties.

And in that respect, it took me longer to work out what it was I wanted to do with my life I didn't have. I guess it's this, you know, when we talk about the experience, we talk about gaps in our. In our. In our knowledge, if you like, and how almost.

There's like a numbness. You numb yourself to kind of get through it. When I was getting on a train to go to school, I wasn't thinking about how sad I was or how.

What I'd lost. I was just thinking, I need to go to school. No. We're emotional creatures. We're meant to be in touch with our feelings and emotions. And this.

This act, you know, this act that we do as human beings where we almost put a lid on what it is we're coping with. To get through the day is really damaging.

And even if you don't see it in the real time, it can ripple through, sometimes even to when you become a parent and it surfaces, or how your interactions and how they surface. I would say, you know, retrospectively being able to look back on that and seeing how things took longer for me because of that experience, I would.

Yeah, yeah.

That's really interesting because it's hard for me to qualify or explain the impact for myself as a person just because I don't remember, you know, crying or being upset. In a sense, it was too deep, you know? So, yeah, so there was definitely that suppression that you're talking about.

And really, I think how I used to think then during that season and even for years afterwards, was more functional. Yeah, gotta do this. I'm gonna do this. Gonna get that.

You know, it's more functional rather than, yeah, I guess sensing or reflecting on how I'm feeling and expressing it. Like I said, didn't share it with anyone and thinking about it. Didn't really even talk to family that was going through it with me, like my sister.

We didn't really talk about it. You know, we just got on with. Getting on with life. Didn't really talk about as a topic.

You know, I wouldn't say we shied away from it or stared away from it. We just. It just didn't come up in conversation.

And probably, maybe that's just because our mindsets were the same as in conversation is about what we're doing, what's happening, not about what's happened and how it's impacted us. So I definitely get you in terms of that whole suppression, but in terms of impact, really, it was that.

I can definitely say in terms of it affecting me was really just about not having a home that felt like home was home.

From what I, based on what I knew all those years, and not having that place, you know, that kind of reflected us as a family over all the years, and having a place where, you know, friends can come and, you know, me being comfortable with friends coming, it was. Yeah. And that's where I think the impact that I felt was more about that. But I do agree with you that because I didn't.

I haven't really gone into the whole, how do I feel? I've gone for cancelling. It's probably.

It was probably a suppressed emotion or, you know, suppressed feelings, perhaps not really delving into or allowing myself to explore those things.

Yeah.

Yeah. So probably a bit more mechanical, really, in terms of my approach, based on that experience.

Everyone has their own, their different coping mechanisms.

I know for me and my sister, my brother, in fact, we use a lot of humor, we use a lot of attention over it, or, you know, rather than kind of almost dwelling on this kind of, like, eviction happened multiple times to us. And, you know, we are the victims of eviction. And almost the only way around that, if you're not constantly crying, is to kind of laugh.

That was our coping mechanism through it. But what I've realized is that it's really layered. It's not just the one thing that you do with hope.

It's.

It's the people you have around you, the people you have conversations with, it's the people you lean on. It's the way you might avoid talking about it that might be your way of dealing with it is just to, like, shut it out.

But it will be different things for different. It will manifest for different people, the impact, for sure.

So, um, you've come a long way now. You're a proud homeowner. So how do you think those experiences shaped the person that you are today or even your dreams or outlook online?

Yeah, it's a deep question and I'm throwing different questions at you. So, yeah, take it as. You take it as it comes in as well.

Gosh shaped. Do you know what I think my initial response to that is?

I think it shaped me negatively for a long time because I kind of felt hard done by and I felt that it had delayed progress in my life. I hadn't maybe progressed to the stages that I felt I should have because I was so busy dealing with this for most of my early adulthood.

So I feel like I was very resentful.

And actually, I would say the turning point was when I started to kind of forgive, you know, forgive the situation, forgive my parents, forgive myself.

Why would you forgive yourself?

That's a good question.

I think the reason why is because I think I was really annoyed with myself for certain things I hadn't done or I felt like I should have done or been able to do. So it's quite a complex thing to answer.

But I feel like, for instance, you know, sometimes when you feel like you might be implicit in some way and when you're young, you don't really understand. You don't understand the nuances as much as you do when you're an adult.

So, you know, things like when I approached my dad the very first, the second time we got evicted and asked him what was wrong and he said, nothing's wrong, me kind of thinking, what could I have done then? That would have been, you know, should I've, I don't know, gone to my mum, things like this and that kind of happened throughout time.

Yeah, just, I guess maybe, you know, forgiving myself because I didn't use the time that I feel like God gives you first ten years, then your 20 years and the 30 years, and society tells you, by this age you've done this, by this age you've done that. And me being really hard on myself, being like, well, I haven't done this by this age. Why haven't I?

And when I say forgiving, it's almost like letting go of all those expectations you put on yourself to be a certain person and to, you know, allow who you are really to kind of come through regardless. Maybe that's what I mean by that.

All right, thanks, Jo. And I think I cut you off, actually. Was there anything else when I asked you? It's probably gone now, but asked your.

Question, I feel like I've just rambled.

No, no.

And then lastly, I don't know how easy it is to give any advice or words that you could to someone who's going through it, but if there was someone who's going through an eviction or is even still struggling with its impact, what would you say to them?

I think it's two things. I think if you're going through eviction, what you want to hear is different from when we've gone past you, has happened to you.

If you're going through eviction, there's nothing that you can hear that's gonna, it's not forever. It's a moment in time. That's the only comfort you can get, is that your life, hopefully, will be a long run. And this is a blip.

I define you in terms of, after the aftermath of eviction, in whatever shape it took, I would say, you know, again, it's, I feel like the biggest lessons I've learned aren't from what people have told me, it's from how people have been. Okay, so, you know, what does that mean?

I guess in the sense that, you know, like, if, for instance, I'm really simplifying this down for myself more than for anyone else, but it's almost like if your parents says, don't do that. And you say, why? And they said, just don't do that.

For instance, if they said to you, don't smoke, and then you caught, you were out in the street one day and you saw them smoking.

Okay?

So it's almost like they are words. So I guess when I translate that into this situation, I would say, like, for instance, if someone goes, I'll just get over it.

Or, you know, you can do this, blah, blah, blah. For me, anyway, they are just words.

What's more powerful is how I see someone live their lives, how their generosity of spirit, how they show love to me, that's a more, that's what people would need to heal anyway, full stop. Rather than words of, words of platitude.

And just like, just I'm thinking with you and, I mean, which is lovely, but showing love and saying, wishing someone love, I think, very different things. And I've learned that as well.

And actually also being in a place of pain and still showing someone else love, I think, is also powerful because I could still be wallowing still to this day about how things have taken me longer to achieve, et cetera, et cetera. But I've had to learn to park that and realize that part of healing is realizing that. The flip side to that is, what have I learned?

What kind of person have I become as a result, whatever hardship, and then making that something someone else, showing, you know, almost distilling that into love and showing that to somebody else, I think is the most powerful thing I've learned from this.

Thank you, Jo.

Smiling Mary.

I'm smiling because, yeah, we've come to a. We've come to a close, and I'm just really, really pleased to have you because I don't think eviction is talked about openly.

You know, like what we've said earlier, we didn't really even share, you know, at the time, and very few people knew about what was going on, including, you know, given our age. We had, for example, teachers, you know, so, yeah, it's not talked about. So I'm smiling because I'm saying thank you, Jo.

What you've shared, I'm sure, is, if anything, it's about creating awareness on this topic. Because eviction does happen. It happens to people. And people are not just statistics.

And therefore, there is a lot of challenges, hurts, impact on people's lives from, yeah, eviction. And one thing I would say is it's not just transactional. It's not just someone moving out of the house, you know, because money is owed. There is a.

It's a big traumatic event for those that are involved. And like we've talked about for ourselves, it has that knock on effect. It has that ripple effect that can take years to get over. So thank you.

I'm also smiling because it's the fact that we are smiling and talking about.

It is demonstration in itself that, you know, if you've gone through it, there will be a day, there will be a time when you can smile and laugh like we've laughed during this time of sharing and talking about what's happened. Thank you so much, Jo, for coming and sharing. Really appreciative.

Thank you, Mary. Thanks for inviting me.

Here's a spiritual wellness tip for you. It's Zechariah, chapter ten, verse six. And it reads, I will strengthen Judah and save the tribes of Joseph.

I will restore them because I have compassion on them. They will be as though I had not rejected them, for I am the Lord their God, and I will rescue them.

Thanks for listening.

Do follow and join me again next time on beyond the smile with MaryLayo.