It's the KYRS Fund Drive this week (go support community radio!), so things were a little wild in the studio! Erin was flying solo, but was joined by two guests. First up was Maeve Griffith, who runs the show Out and About on KYRS and made headlines herself when she transitioned late in her career as a Spokane firefighter. Then, we were joined by Council Member Paul Dillon (and former KYRS DJ) who talked about the LGBTQIA2S+ ordinance that passed this week and some legislation on the horizon.

Relevant reading:

• ‘Be explicit in your advocacy or risk complicity.’
• 4/28/2025 City Council Live Log: 2SLGBTQIA+ Protection Ordinance

Okay.

2

So

3

qia A two s plus protection ordinance.

4

We touched on this a little bit when

I was on Naras show the other day,

5

um, but I'd been kind of prepping

to talk about it for this show.

6

I wanted to give just a little

bit of background info on the

7

ordinance before Paul shows up.

8

Um, it passed, which is great.

9

It passed on Monday

with a vote of five two.

10

I was watching from nine

bar and Oh, perfect.

11

Nine bar and Bistro nine, whatever.

12

Um, it was, they had a

live watch party there.

13

They opened up for a very rare Monday.

14

They had the council meeting

projected on the screen behind

15

them and, oh man, council that.

16

Fan fans.

17

Yeah, I had a blast.

18

Um, there was, you know, there's

a bunch of other people there.

19

They, and they piped in, so like

if you were signed up to testify

20

virtually, you could do it from nine.

21

They had a microphone that you

could get up to and talk at.

22

Oh, how cool.

23

It was really cool.

24

Um, just like very fun.

25

Community vibes.

26

Vibes.

27

Um, and I was there.

28

I got some scene, I

wrote a story about it.

29

Uh, but if you have not seen any of

the coverage about the ordinance and

30

what it does, it's been one of my sort

of like hopeful points for this year.

31

Yeah, I think I woke up the

next morning after it passed.

32

Feeling really proud and happy to

be a queer journalist in Spokane.

33

Felt like a, a good day

to be a spoken night.

34

Yeah.

35

Um.

36

A lot of the stuff that the ordinance

does is not purely symbolic, but

37

doubling up on state protections.

38

So there's a lot of stuff that's in

state law that says like, oh, Washington

39

will not turn over information to

other states who might be trying to

40

prosecute somebody for receiving gender

affirming or reproductive healthcare.

41

Here in Washington, that's

called a shield law.

42

And Spokane, um, passed in this ordinance,

they passed their own version of the

43

SHIELD law, which basically means that

if for whatever reason the state law

44

falls or get over, gets overturned,

we have the city law to fall back on.

45

That says that Spokane won't ever

turn over any of that information.

46

Um.

47

They also updated old language

in the human rights code.

48

They added specifically two-Spirit,

which is an indigenous queer

49

identity to the definitions and the

language in the human rights code.

50

As a group of people that

is protected in our city.

51

Um, they guaranteed that city

employees and their families will

52

be able to access gender affirming

care, reproductive healthcare, um,

53

HIV care through city insurance.

54

Um, they designated a police liaison

position with the Spokane Police

55

Department, and this is a person

who's already on the force, but it

56

is their job specifically to interact

with queer communities to be like

57

the point of contact for pride

organizers to help build trust with

58

queer communities here in Spokane.

59

Um, I'm sure there's other things

that I'm missing that were, oh, they.

60

It prevents the city from collecting

any information about your sex

61

assigned at birth, unless that is

specifically relevant to a police.

62

Oh, okay.

63

Um, whether that's, you know, a police

call or a police report or charges.

64

So unless that's specifically

relevant, the city cannot collect any

65

information about sex assigned at birth.

66

Um.

67

I thought this was pretty cool.

68

I, uh, was really moved by a lot of the

testimony from people that was given.

69

And we're gonna see if I can,

oh, we've got, we've got a donor.

70

Oh, okay.

71

Amazing.

72

All right.

73

This is Nick Bruno.

74

Nick pledged a hundred dollars.

75

Whoa.

76

And that magically turns into 200.

77

Whoa.

78

Thank you, Nick.

79

Um, thank you so much, Nick.

80

We really appreciate your support.

81

Um, we are gonna ding the bell for you.

82

Yay, Nick.

83

Woo.

84

Whoa.

85

Thank you so much, Nick.

86

And now I am going to try to get

the, uh, some of the testimony

87

from the city hall to play.

88

Can, can I ask you something though?

89

Yes.

90

So, you know, uh, Jonathan Bingle was

quoted, I guess he went to the right, one

91

of the right wing radio talk show hosts.

92

Jason ran again.

93

Yeah, ran and I, and so I wrote a

letter to the editor because I, they,

94

they are so unschooled, I mean, about

what they, what they're talking about.

95

So he said basically, you should be,

go use the restroom of the gender that

96

you were assigned when you were born.

97

Mm-hmm.

98

That they say that on one hand, but

then on the other hand they say,

99

he said, if you're, dude, if you've

got a beard, we're just saying

100

you shouldn't use the ladies room.

101

Which.

102

There are a lot of transgender men who

have beards, so it's like, do they just

103

not know what they're talking about?

104

I mean, do they, do they not take the

time to at least spend 30 seconds to,

105

to explore the people that they hate?

106

That is a great question.

107

I think you brought this up earlier about

people playing to their base, um, and I

108

think you see some of these guys will say

different things from the DAAs or like

109

different things to local reporters than

they will when they go on this talk show.

110

Okay.

111

Um.

112

What Bingo actually believes can

be hard to tell because I think

113

he's, you know, I think he was

speaking to his base a little bit.

114

However, I do think that with a lot

of these people, there is just like

115

a, a fundamental misunderstanding.

116

And I think the hope was there was like

over 60 people that showed up to testify.

117

Wow.

118

And, you know, some of those people

were like, there was a guy that

119

particularly stood out to me.

120

He was like a blue collar

worker, um, a trans guy who's

121

lived in Spokane his whole life.

122

And he talked about how like he almost

never talks about this part of his

123

identity because he's able to pass.

124

Mm-hmm.

125

And nobody ever questions him.

126

And like, is he supposed to

walk into the ladies' room?

127

You know, like this is a,

again, a, a gruff guy with a

128

beard like blue collar worker.

129

And, um, did Bingle

have an answer for him?

130

Bingo.

131

So they're not actually allowed

to answer your testimony.

132

Oh, that's true.

133

Yeah.

134

They have to sit and listen.

135

Yeah.

136

But they do get a space at the end where

they can offer their own commentary

137

and bingo kind of, you know, he, I

think one of the quotes was like, I've

138

always been a voice for the voice list.

139

Like I've always been an advocate

and, um, he didn't really

140

say anything super specific.

141

He did vote against it.

142

So I guess hearing 60 odd people

talk about their experience didn't

143

change his mind or offer any context

that would change his vote, but he

144

did offer to go out for coffee with

anybody who does not like, who thinks

145

that he's a hateful person or who

doesn't understand his point of view.

146

So if you wanna talk to your council

member and you wanna have that

147

conversation about where he stands and

what he actually believes, and, um.

148

He said he will go out for coffee

with anybody who wants to do that.

149

He said that multiple times.

150

So I'm not like putting him on

blast or putting him on the spot.

151

Yeah, he did say that

from the time on Monday.

152

Yeah, that was, that was in the

spokesman review article too.

153

Yeah.

154

Yeah.

155

And you know, I didn't quote him in mind.

156

I think with things like this, as a

queer reporter, I've been trying to

157

balance, um, you know, I'm not unbiased.

158

We are nonpartisan.

159

Mm-hmm.

160

But our bias is for community

and for people who often find

161

like we don't punch down, um, has

always been our point of view.

162

And so with stuff like this, it's

like, I want people to know what

163

their council member is saying.

164

But also I think it's amazing that

this passed and I wanted to celebrate

165

it and make queer people who took

the risk to go testify at counsel

166

feel like seen and heard by that.

167

And so I didn't include any of his

quotes because I just didn't, I

168

didn't know if I wanted to rehash

that, like both sides element of it.

169

Um, but that's always a.

170

A consideration when I'm writing

is like, how much of each person's

171

perspective is important here?

172

And with this story, the goal was

more so to be able to capture the

173

like, community elation and Yeah,

the celebratory the risk too.

174

Yeah.

175

'cause you're like putting your

name and face out there to go talk.

176

Yeah.

177

And I want to like honor that risk

and make it count for something.

178

Yeah.

179

Cool.

180

Very cool.

181

Yeah.

182

Um, Paul should be here at any point,

but, um, actually I wanna play Lily

183

Navarrete quotes about the ordinance.

184

Um, let me see if this works.

185

Okay.

186

We've gotta plugged into my computer.

187

This is, oh, uh, OX two, right?

188

Okay.

189

Hopefully you can hear this shared.

190

Um, but also I hope you'll felt the

support, um, for this ordinance.

191

Uh.

192

Church state separation means that

Christian nationalists and their lawmakers

193

allies can't use our country's laws to

impose their narrow beliefs on others, or

194

may use misuse religious freedom to deny

LGBTQIA two plus people equal rights.

195

But that is exactly what is happening now.

196

What is happening now is that the

new administration is discriminating

197

in the name of religion, deny

healthcare and erasure of

198

transgender rights and identities.

199

It started with painting over the

Washington DC Black Lives Matter mural

200

that erasing the stories of Navajo

cult talkers on the Pentagon website to

201

raid towns and homes where non-criminal

immigrants are being detained and

202

incarcerated without due process.

203

Are we not the land of the free?

204

Are we not the land where we

aren't free to express who we are?

205

Do we have to fit a specific mold

to have our rights respected?

206

Why are people so infatuated to tell

other people how to live their lives?

207

They're not asking anything from you.

208

But respect.

209

Ask yourselves, are we

really the land of the free?

210

Those not affected yet by this fascist

ruling that's happening right now?

211

Just wait.

212

I am proud to vote yes and to be a

co-sponsor on this ordinance because I

213

am one of the brave who still believe

in diversity, equity, and inclusion.

214

It's not going anywhere or

as someone why said it best.

215

The true definition of DEI

is damn will earn income.

216

I will not stand to see anyone not

living in liberty because I will

217

always seek justice for all and I will

not see anyone's identity be erased.

218

So I will vote yes on this.

219

All right, so that was council member

Lily Navarrete is justification

220

for how she voted on the ordinance.

221

Um, and I had one more clip I

wanted to play before we see

222

if Paul actually shows up.

223

Um, one of the narratives that I was most

moved by, there was a guy named Jason.

224

And Jason said he had never

been to a city council member

225

or a council meeting before.

226

He didn't even know who he

voted for on council Okay.

227

Or what district he lived in.

228

But to him it was so important

to show up for this meeting.

229

And so I'm gonna play Jason's testimony.

230

Hopefully I'm gonna

play Jason's testimony.

231

My name is Jason s I'm

a resident of Spokane.

232

Uh, just real quick, I'm here to

voice my support for Ordinance C3 6 6

233

7 'cause I believe the L-G-B-T-Q-I-A

two-Spirit members of our community

234

really need our support at the moment.

235

I've always been a passive supporter.

236

I've never shown up, I've never stood

up, but it's time to show my support for

237

the vulnerable members of this community.

238

Uh, I don't even know

what district I am in.

239

Probably voted for one of you.

240

You're welcome.

241

Uh,

242

obviously I'm not very civically

minded, but I'm not here because I

243

think I can change anyone's mind.

244

I.

245

I'm not here because I think I can

add anything to the conversation.

246

I'm only really speaking for the people

who felt like they couldn't come here.

247

Uh, and I'd just like to say to the

members of the L-G-B-T-L-G-B-T-Q-I-A

248

two-Spirit community, that you have

more friends than you know and to those

249

friends that they don't know they had,

it is really time for you to stand up.

250

All right.

251

That was Jason.

252

Yeah, it was very well said.

253

Yeah.

254

I found myself, you know, I was

watching this from nine, and I'm

255

gonna be so for real with you.

256

I was like, two vodka Red Bulls

deep when this guy testified.

257

So I was like, I, I never get to watch

city council meetings from anywhere.

258

Yeah.

259

But the media table, the bench down

at the bottom and you have to stay

260

like really stony faced and quiet.

261

Oh yeah.

262

And not like, let it be known how

you're feeling about anything.

263

And, um, when Jason stood up to testify,

you know, you're never really sure.

264

You see people come up and you

never know what their opinions are

265

gonna be or what they're gonna say.

266

Yeah.

267

And, um, yeah.

268

And, and then that came out of

his mouth and I was like, I was

269

tearing up and nine a little bit

because you, you don't always know.

270

And I, I called somebody, um.

271

Named Alexander, who was a source

on the story I wrote about this,

272

who is a queer person here in town.

273

And Alexander um, told me that like, to

him it's really important to know where

274

your friends, your neighbors, the people

you, you know, employ or work with.

275

It's important to know

where they stand on things.

276

Yeah.

277

And he said that like he just really

enjoys his quiet, peaceful life, but

278

he stepped out of his shell to join.

279

Alright, we've got Paul Dylan coming

in May, if you wanna let Paul in.

280

And while we're getting Paul

settled, I'm actually gonna

281

play you a quote from Alexander.

282

This was not from the interview that we

had later, but it was from, uh, from his

283

testimony at the Monday council meeting.

284

A survey of 28,000 presently or

formerly trans identified individuals

285

in the US found that only 3% of them

ever experienced core detransition,

286

an even, even smaller percentage of

that group had medically transitioned.

287

Regret Rates after gender

affirming surgery are approximately

288

1%, which is remarkably low.

289

For context, knee replacement surgeries

have a roughly 20% regret rate.

290

Corrective spinal surgery

has a 21% regret rate.

291

Generally, surgery regret rates across

all studied categories are about 14%.

292

You are 20 times more likely to

regret, uh, getting your knee

293

replaced than a trans man is

to receive a double mastectomy.

294

The reality is that if you really care

for the wellbeing of trans kids and you

295

want to help them statistically, you will

have a much better chance of protecting

296

them from things like depression, anxiety,

substance abuse, and suicide by supporting

297

them as they seriously weigh the benefits

and drawbacks of gender affirming

298

treatment under professional guidance

from accredited healthcare providers.

299

At the end of the day, while there are

definitely people opposed to trans rights

300

out of down punching contempt, there

are also people who just don't know very

301

much about us with opinions informed by

reductive caricatures of our experiences.

302

I am trans.

303

I love my quiet, beautifully mundane life.

304

And the things that I want are

things that I want for everybody

305

in and outside of my community.

306

All right, so that was

Alexander's testimony, um,

307

on the ordinance that passed.

308

And while Alexander's testimony

was playing, we were getting

309

a guest settled in our studio.

310

If you're just now tuning in,

this is free range on KYRS.

311

I'm here with Maeve and we're turning on

council member Paul Dylan's mic right now.

312

You wanna say Hi Paul?

313

Hi Paul.

314

Oh my God.

315

Yeah.

316

So it wasn't my list to

talk about your dad jokes.

317

Um, I made a list of all of the most

ridiculous things that I've seen in

318

Spokane politics when I've been here.

319

My gosh, been here last night at

like 9:00 PM when I realized I was

320

gonna have to do this show alone.

321

And I was like frantically trying to

think of things to that I could clip

322

out of council meetings to play on air.

323

And Paul Dad.

324

Or Paul's dad jokes.

325

Question mark was definitely on

my list, so, um, all right, well

326

we've been talking about the lgbtqia

twos plus protection ordinance.

327

Paul was actually the one who proposed it.

328

Um, he was the sponsor on the legislation.

329

So why don't you tell

us a little bit about.

330

How this came about.

331

Yeah.

332

Thank you.

333

And, um, thanks for the

intro with the dad jokes.

334

I swear they've gotten a little bit

better, but the first time I ever chaired

335

a committee, I did make a dad joke and I

swear I just saw like a tumbleweed like

336

blow down the aisle of council chambers.

337

But doesn't that make

it funnier a little bit?

338

Yeah, I can tell what it was.

339

It was, uh, an update from the Spokane

Regional Emergency Communications

340

Center, which Shrek is Shrek.

341

And I was like, oh, and today we're

gonna be talking about Ogers and uh,

342

and it was just silence and everyone

was like, what is happening right now?

343

And I was like, okay, so I

won't be doing that again.

344

But I did.

345

Um, yeah, so the ordinance, how it

came to be, uh, so it was kind of a.

346

I, I think a compounding of a lot of

different issues back in, uh, January.

347

I mean, always wanted to bring

forth an ordinance, uh, like this.

348

Um, but, uh, particularly elevated

after, uh, the election of Donald

349

Trump and the slate of executive orders

that were really, uh, dehumanizing

350

and vilifying, uh, the trans

community and, um, really attacking

351

the right to, uh, exist in itself.

352

And there was several constituents

who did email to want to know kind of

353

what we were doing during that time.

354

Uh, my intern Danielle Goff, who,

um, was part of the Gonzaga Pride

355

Club and was a law student, uh, had

started, um, doing some research.

356

In drafting, uh, some legislation.

357

But what I'd seen, um,

was, uh, resolutions.

358

Resolutions are, are great.

359

I think they do have a place, um, but

they are oftentimes more largely symbolic.

360

They're not into code.

361

So Warchester, um, Massachusetts, um, had

a resolution around this time that was

362

sort of creating a, a trans sanctuary,

and then Olympia had a similar resolution.

363

Um, as we were discussing this and

looking at our code, it felt like,

364

okay, this would be much stronger if

we actually made it an, an ordinance.

365

And so, uh, we just took

that and, and ran with it.

366

And then I think personally too.

367

I was really frustrated with the kind of

tenor of the conversation post-election

368

with I think prominent Democrats

like, you know, Gavin Newsom, the

369

governor of California, really throwing

the trans community under the bus.

370

And I wanted to be very clear that

I am not one of those, uh, democrats

371

and, uh, to really, I think, think

boldly and go farther, um, into, um,

372

some areas where we we needed to go.

373

Yeah, and I think that point about Gavin

Newsom is actually really interesting

374

to me because when I was talking

to queer leaders, one of the things

375

that they were telling me is that.

376

We aren't sure where Bob Ferguson

stands on things right now.

377

Mm-hmm.

378

There's been a few actions that

have come out of his office

379

or like from people under him,

very little from him personally.

380

And so people had that nervousness

that like, what if we turn on podcast

381

one day and it's Bob Ferguson on,

on a podcast talking about how he

382

doesn't care about trans rights.

383

And so having the city like

double up on those protections

384

was pretty important to people.

385

Yeah.

386

And I think it's a reverberation of some

of his other, um, kind of policy stances.

387

So we actually saw.

388

The Attorney General, Nick Brown, uh,

challenging, uh, these executive orders

389

and winning, and I think doing a really

amazing job and, uh, kind of filling

390

that void and, and being proactive.

391

But, uh, I think it's a slippery slope

from the governor's office taking these

392

positions on, uh, revenue, um, you

know, slowing down some other areas.

393

It, I think, shakes a lot of, uh, trust

and the foundation of, okay, what's next?

394

Are we next?

395

And, um, that's a very real feeling.

396

Yeah.

397

Yeah.

398

Once someone starts being able

or being willing to make one

399

sacrifice, the question is

like, where does that list end?

400

Well, it, it's also not smart

because you don't, you don't

401

bargain with these people.

402

You don't give them a little bit

and say, I think they'd just be

403

done if we just surrender this.

404

Right.

405

I.

406

They're just going to be done.

407

And, you know, and it's like

that, that's not how they operate.

408

That's a sign of weakness.

409

And they're going to take you

for everything that you have.

410

So it's like, I don't, I don't

understand that, that line of thinking.

411

It's not like we haven't seen this before.

412

You know?

413

Mm-hmm.

414

We've, we've seen how we operates.

415

Yeah.

416

It's pretty simple.

417

You fight, you fight it.

418

Yeah.

419

And I think 10 years ago, being involved

in, uh, when I worked at Planned

420

Parenthood and some of the coalition

work around, at the time, the efforts to

421

overturn the Washington Administrative

Code on, uh, gender neutral bathrooms.

422

And so there was this group called

Just Want Privacy and how language

423

around privacy and parental rights

and safety can be weaponized, um, in

424

a way that is, uh, causing harm and,

and really dehumanizing, uh, and to

425

work, uh, with a lot of partners.

426

On decline to sign to make sure that they

did not, you know, get on the ballot.

427

That was a very informative, uh,

experience for me with just how much

428

language matters and how it can really be

weaponized and how it can confuse people.

429

And that's also part of

the intention, I think.

430

And so once that debate moves over

into, um, yeah, I think like what is,

431

uh, not, uh, a good faith argument.

432

Yeah.

433

And that's when you start seeding

ground and you start, uh, losing rights

434

and seeing the erosion of rights.

435

Well, it's this, you know, like the, the

trans athlete stuff, which personally

436

I think that there needs to be some.

437

In a lot of cases there is, there is

some threshold of testosterone, things

438

like that there, you know, I get that.

439

I mean, if I had a daughter who was

competing and, and she lost cont, which is

440

not the case, there's not that many trans

athletes, but that were to happen, then

441

I would, you know, I would be upset, I

suppose, if this person was, you know, had

442

decided two weeks before that they were.

443

Female, which is not the case.

444

And I think I think about that, uh, the

Ben Shapiro documentary quote unquote

445

documentary, where he set out to make a

documentary about like all of the women in

446

sports who were losing to trans athletes.

447

And then they couldn't

find any cases Yeah.

448

To make the documentary about, so they

turned it into a, like a fictional, right.

449

I think it's called Lady Ballers.

450

And it's about these men that form

a women's basketball team to, or

451

volleyball, I don't know, to like, go.

452

Absolutely destroy.

453

But the original intent

was to make a documentary.

454

Yeah.

455

And then they could not find that.

456

But, but I imagine they're failure.

457

I'm sorry.

458

There's some like, twisted comedy in

this of just like, oh, like, I know.

459

Well, you know, but, but it's terrible.

460

But yeah.

461

But to your point about like

this, um, genuineness of concern.

462

Yes.

463

It's like, oh, all of a sudden

they're, they're concerned about

464

women's athletics, you know,

it's like they never were before.

465

So they, they really aren't

concerned about women's

466

athletics in this thing at all.

467

And I think that's where, you

know, this whole thing, even with

468

the, the trans thing, it says

there's not that many trans people.

469

It's not a problem, you know?

470

But when you start to kind of, um,

figure, well we can peel these people

471

off 'cause it's not gonna be that many

people that we hurt, you know, and

472

then we can just appease him on this.

473

It's like, well, you're next.

474

You know?

475

Yeah.

476

And, and I think that's what's been the

beauty about this whole administration

477

so far is that we're, and may have

started out with trans people mm-hmm.

478

But now it's like, I mean, I'm, I'm

going to be turning 65 in a couple weeks.

479

Mm-hmm.

480

And I applied for my social security

and my Medicare three months

481

ago like you're supposed to do.

482

And it got move was moving really far.

483

Quickly, it's supposed to be done

in 30 days, and then as soon as they

484

fired, started firing people from

Social Security, all my stuff stopped.

485

Mm-hmm.

486

So I probably will not have

Medicare or Social Security

487

when I'm supposed to have it.

488

And so that's not me as a trans person.

489

That's me as this almost

65-year-old person.

490

And so we're all in this

together, everybody.

491

Is in bad shape because

of this administration.

492

So I think the whole thing that, oh,

we're just going to appease this.

493

Mm-hmm.

494

And then they'll move on.

495

No, they're, they're out

to destroy the whole thing.

496

I think, you know, there was a lot

of testimony at the council meeting.

497

I think it was, was it 67 people

signed up, I think was the number.

498

Jacoby gave 69.

499

69, and I at least, I only counted

five, maybe six negative testimonies.

500

Mm-hmm.

501

Who were against the ordinance.

502

The other 62 ish mm-hmm.

503

Were for it.

504

And I guess I'm curious, I'm

always sitting on the other

505

side of the DAAs mm-hmm.

506

Sitting there.

507

What was the testimony that

you still remember today?

508

What stuck with you?

509

Yeah.

510

I think it was one of the most

powerful and heartfelt nights

511

that I've had at council.

512

Like, I've been interfacing with

Spokane City Council in, I'm gonna

513

age myself a little bit, but in some

fashion, like over the last 20 years.

514

And I had never seen.

515

Uh, nights like that.

516

Only one that was sort of similar when

we were trying to remove, um, ice and

517

border patrol from the Greyhound station.

518

Mm.

519

And similarly, it was, there was a

lot of fear, uh, you know, a lot of

520

dehumanizing language around, uh,

immigrants and, um, but when it came

521

time to vote, it was also 90% supportive.

522

And I think that is a testament to

the power of organizing that is a

523

testament to the power of community.

524

Uh, and I think some of the stories

that were really impactful for me was

525

actually the one who was like, you know,

I've, I, I've never spoken to counsel

526

before, but I want you to know that

there's a lot more people that see you

527

and love you than not in this community.

528

And that was just very

earnest and, and honest.

529

And then also, um, I think really.

530

Putting a, a face on these issues as well.

531

Like I think to say like, yeah, I'm here.

532

I'm trans.

533

I support this.

534

Um, and I think that that does a lot

to de-stigmatize, uh, the discussion.

535

Um, I also think too, it puts into

more context the absurdity of the

536

opposition because we are talking

about real people, their real lives and

537

how this will, uh, make a difference.

538

The other aspect to this too, what people

don't see, I think from when you're up on

539

the ES, is just also the calls and emails.

540

Similarly, it was five or 6, 2, 1, uh,

in support from people reaching out to us

541

and of like the people that were opposed.

542

They were.

543

Also there that night at council.

544

Ah.

545

So we'd already heard from them,

but a lot of what we're hearing for

546

the support was people who didn't

come down and wanted to email.

547

And so that, again, was very

validating and affirming for, I

548

think, uh, the support, not just the

support for this ordinance, but how

549

we are as a community as a whole.

550

Yeah.

551

It was really beautiful to

see everybody showing up.

552

Yeah.

553

One thing too, I think, uh, I think

we'd spoken about this before,

554

but was the poetry at the podium?

555

Yes.

556

And that was, you know, I,

I love poetry at the podium.

557

I'm glad we brought it back.

558

That was.

559

Uh, so beautiful, so powerful.

560

Um, I, I know that that was not,

uh, it's not easy to come down

561

to council on any night, um, but

to share and, and be vulnerable.

562

And I think that that was just like

right out the gate, just such a

563

strong way to start the meeting and

it just couldn't have gone any better.

564

Yeah.

565

Um, if you have not had the pleasure

of watching the meeting, there was a

566

person who read a poem, um, and these,

these are like, this wasn't selected

567

for the meeting, I don't think, was it?

568

Uh, so there is, Spokane Arts will

recommend and reach out and find someone,

569

and then they'll talk to, uh, do they sync

it up with the, like, not typically, no.

570

Okay.

571

Yeah, no.

572

It was a, a poem about

being an out masked lesbian.

573

Um, and at, at first she was

talking about her Subaru and I

574

was like, A Subaru interesting.

575

I'm keying into this.

576

And then she straight up said it and I

was like, wow, I can't believe they got

577

somebody to come down and read a poem.

578

Mm-hmm.

579

Like this on a, on a night like

this, when the room is filled.

580

With supportive faces.

581

Um, so I'm Aaron.

582

This is Maeve.

583

Hello.

584

If you're just now tuning in, this

is free range and we've got council

585

member Paul Dylan on the other mic.

586

If you have a question for council

member, Dylan, now's a great time to

587

ask it, but you're only gonna be able to

do that if you become a member at KYRS.

588

So you can call in at (509) 747-3807.

589

Become a member.

590

It's $36 a year.

591

We've got a matching challenge on, so

we'll actually get $72 a year to help

592

us keep doing programming like this.

593

And if you tell the folks on

the phone your question, we'll

594

ask Paul Dylan right now.

595

We've got him on the air

for another 12 minutes.

596

Yeah.

597

And as a recovering former, uh, KRS

dj, yes, I support that statement.

598

KRS is one of the reasons why I

really fell in love with Spokane.

599

I was a student reporter at the Easterner.

600

I remember taking the bus out from

Chin to Spokane, walking in the dark,

601

uh, back when KRS was at Main Avenue.

602

And seeing this no war sign.

603

'cause it was the time

of, you know, the Yeah.

604

Uh, Iraq War and going up the

stairs and someone was playing, uh,

605

like Interpol and it was, uh, John

Snyder, uh, who went on city council.

606

Yeah, I bet.

607

He was one of the co-founders of

KRS and he was this like madman

608

scientist trying to make all this

like lo-fi equipment, try and work.

609

And I was like, you know,

his hair, he looked like he

610

might have been electrocuted.

611

Um, and it's amazing to see from then,

you know, 20 years ago to now just, it's

612

reach the infrastructure shows like this.

613

Having you both here, uh, was amazing.

614

Yeah.

615

And then I had my own show for about

six years on here down to Earth.

616

And, and I think you and I Yes.

617

Known each other probably

for 20 years now almost.

618

Yeah.

619

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

620

And yeah, John Snyder and yeah,

that's a lot of water under

621

the bridge, that's for sure.

622

It's yes.

623

You know, Mave, I get to bother

Paul anytime of the day that I want.

624

He doesn't have to answer, but I get to

bother him anytime I want with questions.

625

Do you have any questions

for a city council member?

626

Well, I asked a question when you,

when Paul came in, if he was, do you

627

feel a little wistful that George

McGrath wasn't there for the L-G-B-T-Q?

628

Yeah.

629

George was a fascinating figure

with his, uh, Elmo decor.

630

Yeah.

631

And, uh, his very, you know,

we're all a bunch of, uh, bicycle

632

commies, uh, running around.

633

Remember video around,

and I remember he a.

634

Applied for a traffic calming project.

635

Yeah.

636

And I sort of imagined he had his project

was to like build this like moat around

637

like bike lanes with sharks or like

have like a castle with like, and it

638

was actually like a crosswalk, you know?

639

And so that to me always showed like

how sometimes people you disagree

640

with can really surprise you.

641

You know?

642

He was so business, he always would

sit there and he would like have

643

kind of like hold court, but he was,

couldn't talk to you because he was busy

644

working on what he was going to say.

645

Yeah.

646

Beforehand.

647

And yeah.

648

And of course the Chinese got

that video tape I remember.

649

Yeah.

650

Yeah.

651

That was a really, that was a

weird time when Chinese, that

652

was the propaganda machine.

653

Propaganda.

654

The, yeah.

655

Remember very well were like

George McGrath was their guy.

656

And who knew he was asleep?

657

I don't know.

658

We don't know.

659

We don't know.

660

All we know was the Chinese adopted him.

661

And this is all before my time.

662

I had Charles.

663

Um, do you remember Charles?

664

Councilman the guy who showed

up to testify on a contract

665

in the consent agenda.

666

Oh yes.

667

About accepting a technology grant.

668

Yes.

669

And this guy shows up out of

nowhere, never seen him before.

670

He's like, he's amped, he's got

a lot of energy and he's Yes.

671

Talking about how he actually thinks

if we get this technology grant, we

672

should be spending the money on rollout.

673

LED dance mats.

674

Dance party dance parties in the pavilion.

675

And Yes, but like specifically

as a way to bring down crime.

676

Yes.

677

He thinks if you see people fighting

downtown or people who are stressed, the

678

police can use these rollout, LED dance

mats to actually do like diffuse conflict.

679

Conflict deescalation.

680

This is, I famously, people tell me

I do not have a poker face and that

681

was a night where I had to take my

agenda sheet and put it over my face.

682

'cause I was like just grinning ear to

ear and laughing and just like, yeah.

683

I was in hysterics.

684

Yeah.

685

It's just, I think.

686

Nate Sanford, the Inlander reporter

was still here when that happened.

687

And like all three of us, all

three city hall reporters mm-hmm.

688

Were just like audibly giggling.

689

Yeah.

690

And we have to have an even better

poker face than you guys, I think.

691

Yeah.

692

I mean, you're the only

ones that can see us.

693

Yeah.

694

But like, we're all trying

not to let it be known.

695

I, I lost it.

696

I still, I still think I, I'd

like to hear more from this guy.

697

Oh.

698

Oh, would you, babe?

699

I, I mean, because I, I mean,

I like idea people, you know,

700

I mean, that's the thing.

701

You know, give an idea.

702

If you, you gimme three seconds, I

will get you Charles's testimony.

703

Okay.

704

Yeah.

705

Because, um, yeah.

706

I mean, what could it hurt?

707

No, it's, it's amazing the

variety of speakers that you get.

708

And it's always, it.

709

I, I am always very patient.

710

And the fact that people are

wanting to come down on their

711

Monday night and spend, I.

712

Time with us and speak their piece.

713

And this is how they civically

engage is, uh, for the most

714

part, I mean, when they're, with

the exception of disruptions.

715

I mean, it really is a, a beautiful

thing and you learn a lot.

716

I mean, just by the sheer

breadth of like different issues

717

that people are talking about.

718

Yeah.

719

Like, yes, there are people like

Charles who want us to invest

720

in a, a, a laser dance party to

solve our public safety issues.

721

Yeah.

722

We're gonna play you just

a little bit of Charles.

723

Yeah.

724

My name's Charles.

725

Uh, I have a proposition

for cybersecurity.

726

If we're gonna start, uh,

having more cameras around.

727

Uh, just a couple things.

728

Um, I think we should start decorating

the security cameras with like

729

decorations so we know where they're

at, like clown faces and other things.

730

Maybe businesses could start decorating

the cameras so we know where they're at.

731

So we could perform for them more

and we could say hello to 'em.

732

Maybe we could have signs under the

cameras that say, Hey, you know, smile, we

733

enjoy you, you're great, you're awesome.

734

Keep doing what you're doing.

735

Things like that.

736

Um, also on the cybersecurity level, uh,

maybe some of this money could go towards,

737

um, conflict resolutions in our society.

738

Let's say there's people fighting

on the streets, uh, maybe we

739

could, uh, give security guards

an option to have an invention.

740

I created, uh, it's a rollout, LED

uh, disco mat, uh, where you have two

741

people that wanna fight and they have

to have a dance comp competition.

742

And there's gonna be a couple different

options for this dance competition.

743

One, you're gonna have a skilled dance.

744

People, people judging those

people say, yes, you win, you win.

745

But there's also gonna be a possibility

for trying to make the other person laugh.

746

And if they crack a smile, then they

lose the, they lose the, the battle.

747

Uh, so that's conflict

resolution dance, uh, idea.

748

Um, this can go into the

cybersecurity budget.

749

Also, like I said, putting big clown

faces and other silly stuff all on

750

the cameras all over the place so

we can see 'em throughout the city.

751

Um, I have one more idea

that's, uh, fairly brilliant.

752

I am looking for some investors on these

and I am willing to meet with these

753

people that want to, uh, have these kind

of ideas with this cybersecurity budget.

754

Um, so, uh, thank you again for listening.

755

Um, got another minute and 14.75

756

seconds.

757

Um.

758

Okay.

759

So while Charles has another

minute and 14 seconds, we are

760

actually not gonna get him minutes.

761

He already sold me of that time.

762

He already me, he sold me.

763

Yeah.

764

Cybersecurity.

765

It's a pressing issue.

766

Yeah.

767

I think what happened right

after that is Council President

768

Wilkerson was like, Charles, are

you still speaking to the agenda?

769

'cause you, you are kind of

locked in to talking about the

770

thing that you're signed up for.

771

Um, and he was like, yes, yes I am.

772

I've still got my time.

773

Yeah, we, we need a little more of that.

774

Um, okay.

775

I'm trying to think if we

have any last questions.

776

Is there anything that you're excited

about coming up on the horizon that

777

KYRS listeners should be tuned into?

778

Yeah, I've got a couple different things.

779

I mean, I know a lot of, uh, KYS, uh,

rent, uh, listeners care about tenant

780

rights, so gonna be working on, uh,

some eviction diversion, uh, work.

781

Uh, we've got some really exciting

transportation, uh, updates coming

782

up, particularly around complete

streets, which makes sure that our,

783

uh, roads are designed for all users,

uh, bike ped, uh, transit users.

784

And let's see, what else?

785

There's a lot, uh, coming up that

I think is the cryptocurrency

786

thing I thought was interesting.

787

Mm-hmm.

788

Yeah.

789

This is a strange ordinance.

790

It's also speaks, I think, to.

791

Like why, why I love this job so much?

792

Because it kind of forces you to become

an expert in so many different issues.

793

Like one day you're working on off-premise

alcohol sales and then the LGBTQ plus

794

light shield law, and then banning, uh,

crypto ATMs, which are like, uh, just

795

real, like a scourge on our community.

796

And it's, uh, really sad to

read about, you know, people

797

losing their life savings.

798

This is also another way to trump proof

Spokane because the Trump administration

799

is completely deregulating, uh, crypto.

800

So this would, uh, remove, uh, these

ATMs that are scattered around the

801

city predominantly in low income areas.

802

And we would be the first, uh,

city, uh, in the state to do this.

803

So making more, more history, I.

804

All right, so that's very cool.

805

That's a lot of news to look forward to.

806

This has been Free Range, a

co-production of KYRS and Range Media.

807

You're listening to KYRS, medical

Lake Spokane as part of their fun

808

drive, and we are signing off.

809

Bye.

810

Thank you.