What if the foods you eat every day are quietly inflaming your body, draining your energy, and sabotaging your long-term health?

In today’s eye-opening episode, we sit down with James White, CEO of KBMO Diagnostics, the leader behind the revolutionary FIT Test, to expose the silent killers hiding in your kitchen.

James opens with a simple but startling truth:

“Most people think it’s normal to feel crappy. But inflammation is not normal.”

Food sensitivities don’t always scream, they whisper. They show up as headaches, joint pain, bloating, skin issues, and fatigue that people often ignore or normalize.

As James explains:

“Food sensitivities are silent killers. People walk around with symptoms for 10–20 years.”

In this conversation, he breaks down:

• The real impact of “silent inflammation”
• Why digestive symptoms are only the beginning
• The science behind the FIT Test
• What leaky gut actually is and why it matters
• How personalized diagnostics uncover what guesswork never will

You’ll learn why so many people suffer for years without answers—and how simple testing can finally reveal the hidden root causes.

Imagine waking up with more clarity, more energy, and fewer symptoms—simply because you finally identified what’s been fueling inflammation all along.

This episode empowers you to:

• Take ownership of your health
• Challenge what you’ve been told is “normal”
• Understand the deeper story your body is telling
• Make small changes that lead to massive transformation

As we share on the show:

“The body is always speaking. The question is—are we listening?”

This conversation is your invitation to start listening.

When you’re ready to understand your inflammation, heal your gut, and reclaim your vitality, explore the powerful insights behind the FIT Test.

👉 Subscribe to Beyond The Pills on Apple Podcasts & Spotify

👉 Share this episode with someone who needs answers

👉 Follow for more holistic, root-cause-focused conversations

Welcome, welcome back to Beyond the Pills,

where we merge ancient wisdom with modern

day science to uncover what true healing

really means.

I'm your host, Josh Rimini,

pharmacist turned healer and modern day

medicine man.

Today,

we are diving into the topic that touches

every single one of us, inflammation,

the silent force behind so many chronic

issues,

but we're approaching it through the lens

most people have never even seen before.

I'm joined today by James White.

He's the CEO of KBMO Diagnostics,

a company behind the FIT test,

among others,

the first patented assay that measures

both IgG and complement the inflammation

marker for

one hundred and seventy six foods and

additives.

James has also helped grow the KBMO from

just five providers to over five thousand,

probably more now worldwide.

And he's transforming how we identify

hidden inflammatory markers.

By the end of this conversation,

I hope you will feel inspired,

empowered and understand

that not all testing is the same and

the right information can change

everything about your health.

Welcome to the show, James.

Thank you very much.

Very much indeed.

Josh and I met at Neutrodyn a month

or so ago and we had an amazing

conversation.

The first one was great,

so I'm hoping the second one is even

better.

Well, that's why we're here, right?

It's like,

how the heck do you know each other?

You know expectations.

Yeah, we're entrepreneurs at heart, right?

And we speak the same language because we

speak different.

practically so as soon as we started

learning you know and and of course there

was all these aha moments it was like

oh my gosh you're the guy i've been

looking for uh because the tests that i've

been doing were the ones i was doing

like you were the next gen approach to

that so it was really cool um and

for those brand new to this stuff like

how do you describe the mission behind

kbmo diagnostics so the whole concept was

um

without going into kind of ancient history

about my background,

I'd done some stuff in cardiovascular

health, some stuff looking at genetics.

And I was feeling slightly kind of

dissatisfied because like cardiovascular,

after all that training and everything,

they tell you fundamentally eat less,

exercise more,

but not on any kind of personalized basis.

It was all kind of like, that's it?

So,

and then molecular was a bit the same

in terms of genetics.

It's all very like, well,

if you're in this population,

one or two percent of you might get

something.

I was like, it's really not,

doing it for me.

So I was like, well,

let's look at something related to,

you know, what, what do we all do?

We all have to eat.

That's not optional.

And so what we,

what we came up with was this test

that enables us to look at what are

we consuming is leading us to an

inflammatory response.

And as Josh said on the intro,

food is the ancient healing.

Everyone says, you know, what you are,

what you eat, you know,

go back to hypocrisy, you know,

know it's all based on your gut health

and how you're feeling and so this seemed

like a pretty cool way of getting to

that in terms of looking at what which

foods you're consuming on an

individualized basis are leading to an

inflammatory response

And again,

if we go back to ancient history,

everything begins in the gut.

And more importantly,

the root cause of everything is

inflammation.

So I was like, hmm,

this was my aha moment.

How do we get a test which identifies

on an individualized basis,

different for James to Josh,

which foods will cause an inflammatory

response?

but with a scientific approach that

enables it to come up with a handful

of foods rather than some of these tests,

which kind of go,

here's fifty different foods that you now

need to eliminate from your diet.

And as I say, I'm not a psychologist,

but when you see the patient's bottom lip

wobble,

you know that you've told them there's too

many foods to take out of their diet.

So the idea here was to say,

this is really cool.

This shows them a much more targeted

approach

without baffling them with too much

science.

So look,

these are the foods that you need to

eliminate in a color-coded way,

so something that they can understand.

And as Josh and I have mentioned,

one of his mentors and one of the

guys that I look up to dearly in

terms of Sachin Patel,

who I'm sure Josh has mentioned before on

here, as he always says,

the doctor of the future is the patient.

So again,

coming up with a test that enables us

to bring all these things together,

which is understandable for the patient,

because fundamentally,

if the patient's not compliant,

we're all wasting our time.

So what we want to do is come

up with a test

that looks at some of those real key

attributes,

which is understandable for the patient,

that enables them to move forward in a

way that they actually take control of

their own journey, whatever that might be.

So that was really how we came up

with KBMO and the FIT test,

so the food inflammation test.

So in the UK,

we call it the Ronseal test.

It says it does what it says on

the tin, i.e.

food inflammation test.

I love it.

This is why I think we got along

so well,

because we were talking about the

complexity that people take when they go

on a wellness journey.

And when not all labs are the same

either, like what you said has been true.

And I've experienced this myself.

It's like,

a lot of people now know like oh

what foods am i allergic to and now

i can't eat and it's not quite true

it's like how do we heal right and

so i love the fact that

We got to talk a little bit about

the science,

but not too geeky because we want people

to just know like you can test for

IgG.

And then, like I said,

like what I call it is like there's

a lot of ink on this test.

There's a lot of ink on this report.

And then you show people, oh, my gosh,

I have all these IgG allergies to all

these foods.

I can't eat them anymore.

I love cheese.

I love chocolate.

I love this.

And all of a sudden they get overwhelmed.

And then they do it.

So there's this balance that you created.

I love the entrepreneur in you.

It's like, how do we solve the problem?

What are the foods that are actually

causing inflammation?

Which means you took that and you test

now for the compliment,

which in the geeky ways,

that just means that it's actually doing

something to cause the inflammation,

right?

Yeah.

So as you say, like there's nothing,

nothing against IgG only testing,

but what it's telling you is which foods

you're exposed to.

It's awake.

You're awake.

Yeah.

And if you're leaky,

that means you're eating them.

Josh, great news.

You're eating.

So the concept was,

let's go on the next step further that

says,

More importantly,

of those foods you're eating,

which ones are causing that inflammatory

response?

So back to the kind of science,

it's looking at your whole immune system

versus half of it.

So the half that was currently being

looked at was the IgG, i.e.

what you're exposed to.

We thought,

wouldn't that be a lot more convincing if

we told patients, look,

rather than repeating back to you what

you're eating,

let's say of the foods you're eating,

which ones are causing inflammation?

Which then...

the aha moment for everyone is, oh, wow,

that's then correlating really tightly

clinically with the symptoms the patients

are presenting with.

Because again,

the root cause of all disease is

inflammation.

And so on that basis,

let's identify the foods which are causing

inflammation.

Put simply, if you think about it,

when you go and buy a car,

it used to be you'd say well which

oil are you going to put in that

car to work out which how your engine

is going to run as efficiently as possible

and so in essence that's what we're doing

with this test let's work out which foods

or oil in that analogy are actually the

ones that are going to make your body

or system run as efficiently as possible

and that's what this test does it tries

to

You know,

we're all probably feeling subpar in some

regards because we're inflamed.

So if we can identify the foods that

are causing that and again,

unbeknownst to us,

because the reality is what happens is we

all look at the food pyramid and say,

oh, well, that's good for me.

That's bad for me.

Well, unfortunately,

that pyramids about as useful today as a

pyramid, because, again,

it's not relevant because there's no such

thing as one size fits all.

We know that's a terrible idea.

So this is where this really helps.

It gives you as a patient a way

of going, cool,

which foods are causing that inflammation,

which is whether it's showing up as a

migraine, skin related, gut related issue.

How do we identify those?

And that's what this test does.

And so that's the really the kind of

really unique and I think excellent part

of why this is patented and really gives

us that edge over those other tests that

we were talking about.

It is really zeroing in on a handful

of foods,

which enables you to kind of to really

take control of your own destiny rather

than going, oh, my gosh,

I've got to lean heavily on a provider

or someone.

And now I've got is an X number

of drugs I've got to take.

No, no.

Let's eliminate those foods and let's see

how you feel.

I love it.

It is that simple.

And what what I love about this is

it's the evolution of what we've known.

Right.

You took IgG,

which is not really well known in the

grand scheme of things,

but in the functional realm,

we talk about food is medicine or poison.

Right.

And then so people know it's like,

all right, if I eat whole foods.

I'm doing great.

But then you go into like, well,

if your gut isn't in order and then

you're leaky and these things are sliding

in and they're causing inflammation,

it's not just sliding in.

It's okay, I woke up, they're around,

but now that thing is angry and now

it's inflamed.

And then what you said is like those

downstream effects, skin, pain, gut,

doesn't matter.

It's just,

it's inflamed and that your body's

triggering it in a way that manifests out

in that.

But then you took it that step further

because the mechanistic functional

medicine guy in me says, well,

what do we do to heal the gut,

right?

The five-hour process,

the IFM or whatever approach, right?

We teach that.

So what I – why I love what

your test does is it tells people –

Not only the foods that are inflaming

them,

if they're eating whole foods healthy,

right?

When they get there,

but then what's inflaming them.

But you went a step further,

which is like,

I love as an entrepreneur and as a

business guy,

like I love the why wouldn't I offers.

You just threw in the gut permeability

test.

Yeah, and that's down to...

I want to talk about this because when

we get to the place where you're guided

by someone that's going to actually do

something with the gut,

with supplementation,

and do that five-hour process of remove,

repair, re-inoculate, replace,

and rebalance, there's a process to that.

That's what they teach us in functional

medicine.

But I was like, I was...

For no extra cost than it costs these

other labs,

you're actually seeing markers to show

people that they are leaky and they have

inflammation because of the root cause of

what that is and what we can do

to actually do something with.

And the aha moment for me was we

were, you know,

when I started the company,

like every entrepreneur,

you end up doing everything.

And so I was the salesperson in New

Hampshire.

So in between the naturopaths and the

tattoo artists and the kind of karate

dojos,

Yeah,

you'd find the odd nutritionists and

people and naturopaths talking about food

sensitivity testing.

And so I said, look,

this is this great test and it's patented

and we're looking at these multiple

pathways.

We eliminate these false positives.

And they go, yeah, this is all great.

But, you know,

some people we don't bother testing for

because we think they've got leaky gut.

And so, again,

I've just come back from talking to one

of our distributors in Thailand of all

places who's been running the test for a

while.

And what really resonated with me was even

in Thailand,

they're talking about don't guess, test.

And I thought, that's fantastic.

And in essence,

that's what they were doing in New

Hampshire.

They weren't testing, they were guessing.

In their defense, fifteen years or so ago,

there wasn't a gut barrier panel attached

to a food sensitivity test.

So that was really what we've tried to

do.

We've tried to say, look,

let's not make this a gotcha moment where,

sorry,

you didn't add the gut barrier panel,

so you didn't get that piece of

information provider.

Our approach was let's combine them

together, make it simple.

So it's in essence a chicken and egg.

Which comes first?

Is it leaky gut or food sensitivities?

And I took the view, I don't care.

It's going to come anyway.

You're going to do it anyway,

so let's just do it.

Let's give it to you all up front.

And then that way,

if you don't have leaky gut, high five,

great, good news.

The gut's secure.

We can just focus on which foods are

causing inflammation.

If the gut is leaky,

which happens a lot of the time,

then you could then go, okay, great.

We now know we've got to heal the

gut as well as looking at the foods

which are causing that.

So that was the kind of, you know,

the thought that we had was, look,

how do we combine these two rather than

making this, you know,

a way of charging more and more money

again a simplistic approach i have was

look why don't we combine it and then

that makes the provider have more

information and then have better clinical

outcomes and that's what we're seeing and

that's why i think we've really seen the

kind of explosion over the last you know

ten years or so and like every

entrepreneur we're always an overnight

success in about ten years so that's

generally how it works it's like you have

to kind of be

persistent keep doing it listen to your

clients who say look this is what we

want combined so that's what we did to

try and make sure we lead by having

the best science in terms of the only

patented food sensitivity and we were the

first and only lab so far to combine

these two tests together and then we went

a step further so right let's develop a

test around a thing called zonulin which

is really

a great way of identifying what might be

going on with the tight junctions to see

if leaky gut's happening or not.

And again, there was a test out there.

It was from a company in Germany.

It happened to be about the most

un-Germanic thing I'd ever come across

because it wasn't very accurate.

Most things Germanic, you're like,

oh my gosh,

it'll have been over-engineered and it's

going to be the most accurate thing ever

known to man.

This happened to be the one exception.

So we spent four or five years working

with a gentleman called Dr.

Alessio Fasano, who if none of you,

if you haven't heard of him,

definitely worth checking him out on

YouTube.

He is one of the most entertaining

scientific speakers you'll ever hear.

And he talks,

and not only does he talk about zonulin,

but he discovered the links between

zonulin and celiac disease.

And so again, fascinating.

Back in the day,

he came up with this great way of

identifying why is it important to measure

zonulin in terms of for a celiac and

other patient populations since that,

that work out that if there's an issue

with those tight junctions in terms of how

they're functioning,

which is what the zonulin is measuring,

then you really need to look at doing

something about that.

And so we partnered with him on our

very own, a gentleman called Dr.

Brent Dorval,

who helped develop the food sensitivity

test.

In fact, he was our technical founder.

And so again,

his not insignificant claim to fame was he

invented the first rapid HIV diagnostic.

So again,

everything we do is through his infectious

disease kind of lens.

So we made sure the testing we've

developed

is highly accurate, highly reproducible,

but more importantly,

comes from a really high level of science

perspective.

So with the input of Dr.

Alessio Pisano on our zonulin test,

as well as the brilliance of Dr.

Dorval in terms of his development skills

to bring that test together.

So it's that combination of world-class

science,

and then someone daft enough to attend

many conferences to kind of get the word

out there to say, ah,

look this is how you should be doing

this so again it's to Josh's point it's

an evolution not a revolution we basically

said look here's IgG let's put IgG with

complement to measure the whole immune

system versus half of it let's not stop

there let's also say well let's what's

going on from a gut perspective as well

so how do we measure the whole immune

system

and gut health all in one finger stick

test,

which is really simple to administer.

And I know Josh has started running that

in the pharmacy now.

Yeah, our pharmacy and wellness center,

like I said, like I knew of, right?

Even in like functional, like, oh,

you test IgG, you know it's a sensitive,

you do the elimination test,

you do the five-hour gut restoration

process, which is relatively simplistic.

But like I said,

we're talking evolution here.

And yeah,

they taught us about Zonulin when I went

through functional training in twenty

eighteen.

And holy crap, this is amazing.

How do I do this?

And then you go over here and you

how do I do that?

And then all of a sudden you've gotten

like

Five tests,

it's cost five thousand dollars and all of

a sudden you're like, great,

what do I do with it?

So I loved this approach because part of

what we do and the ethos of what

we are launching nationwide with our

listeners and the Beyond the Pills

collective that's forming is wellness made

simple, right?

You took like four biomarkers and now you

can demonstrate with specificity and

reproducibility of leaky gut.

And then I look, it's just,

it can't get any better.

Like we talked about it.

It's like you do all that.

Right.

You fix them up, you heal them up,

you repair them up,

you put in the good stuff,

you take out the bad stuff and then

you reintroduce foods.

But then you did.

All right.

Well, why would you need?

I love this part about the let's call

it the heart centered part of

entrepreneurship.

Why test if you don't have to?

So then you just said, well,

when you retest,

let's just give them the permeability

side, make it cheaper.

So they don't have to go through that

whole panel again and spend more dollars

that aren't.

So you literally democratized it like

three times to make it where literally

this is exactly what you need.

And this is how easy it is for

providers and people to get to work

together.

Because you retest,

you just test if it's leaky.

And if it's not,

you know you did the job.

And I think the whole thing that we're

beginning to see now is to your point,

it gives people some level of, okay,

how long is this gonna be?

Because sometimes you work with a

provider, you go, oh my God,

this is a never ending checkbook that I've

just opened here.

This is gonna be a nightmare.

Obviously, hopefully,

you're going to feel better as well.

But for a patient, you're like, well,

I think I'm bought into this,

but I'm not entirely sure.

So the idea was to say, look,

it's a six-month process.

You do the first test up front,

which is the food sensitivity and the gut

barrier.

And to your point, Josh,

in six months' time,

let's just retest that gut barrier because

we want to see,

did we heal the gut,

given that if we all believe that all

disease starts in the gut,

back to Hippocrates again,

back to the ancient man himself,

Look,

if that's what's going on and we healed

the gut, high five, we're in great shape.

But more importantly,

if things aren't totally healed,

we've got the evidence to then go, okay,

and this is now why I think you

should consider staying on that supplement

or moving on to something slightly

different.

And up until this point, unfortunately...

you know,

most providers haven't had that second

piece of evidence.

So they've been guessing.

So this is the whole hope here is

to say, look,

we all know that providers should make

sure they have that second test done.

But I also kind of joke that if

a provider can sell a five thousand dollar

kind of package of tests up front and

then six months later sell five thousand

dollars more of testing,

they're probably in the wrong job because

that's an amazing sales job.

So the reality is what we want to

do is make it affordable for

and easy for the patient and provider.

The patient gets, okay,

I understand I'm in this game for six

months to see,

can I make a significant improvement or

not?

The provider feels better because they

feel, look,

I'm going to have some evidence in six

months, which will demonstrate,

did we get some improvement?

And if we didn't,

is that a combination of we didn't quite

get the right thing going,

or is that patient being compliant or not?

And that's one of the other key elements

of this.

We want to help the patients be...

be compliant with looking at the whole

immune system.

But equally importantly,

we want to make sure that when we

retest that we've got some level of

honesty going on that says,

I'm going to be retested here.

So I can't just say, Josh, yeah,

I kind of feel better.

you know, we can look and go, wow,

why did those markers get worse?

And it looks like all these pills are

still in the same bottle as I gave

you six months ago.

So again,

we want to make sure that we're giving

you opportunities for the patient to be

successful and to have evidence of why

they now feel better.

Because the other thing I always find with

this food sensitivity testing is it

sometimes should be called a test for

amnesia because a number of patients are

coming, oh, I feel terrible.

In six months' time, yeah,

I think I feel slightly better.

I'm not really sure.

But, again,

this evidence to make sure they've got

that is really key because, again,

we want to make sure they have improved.

Totally why testing is – why guests test.

I love that.

I'm going to use that.

Yeah.

you see it in real time.

So it's nice to stay like, you know,

dairy and gluten is inflammatory.

Great, we all know that,

but then they see it and they're like,

oh crap, it is inflammatory to me,

like not to this whole population.

So I love that the amnesia test,

it's great.

It's because we get to validate for our

own,

our own human experience needs to see it

personalized to me,

Now,

you can do it with an elimination and

you eliminate all the stuff and you see

how you feel,

but it doesn't resonate until you see it.

Now, I want to rapid fire.

I got to speed date you now because

you do other tests that are amazing and

we're talking inflammation, but now...

And there's nothing wrong with people

going deeper.

Like if you got to go deeper on

the more advanced labs, great,

but you shouldn't have to,

unless you need to.

This is like the eighty twenty rule in

perfect scenario.

Eighty percent of the time,

if we do this,

we're going to get a really good place

because we're working on the gut or

healing the gut and we're eliminating the

bad stuff.

It's like the premise of functional

medicine, eliminate the bad stuff,

put in the good stuff.

Great.

But I'm big into men's health and I'm

big into cardiovascular stuff.

You got a cardiovascular inflammation

test.

Same principles we've talked about over

these twenty minutes of can I make the

better widget?

Can I evolve this?

Can I make it simple?

And can I give people what they need

without overcharging them?

When I saw this cardiovascular

inflammation test at the conference we

were at a couple weeks ago,

I was like, again, it was the second,

oh, holy crap,

where you've been all my life because

I've done advanced cardiometabolic

testing,

gone to the lab and did five vials

of blood and then went to a cardiologist,

lipidologist.

And he was telling me about all this

stuff.

It was so, for me, was so intense.

I was like,

and I've never done it on a patient,

even though I needed to get more

information.

And then I see what's in front in

this little finger stick thing test.

And I'm like, okay.

I now I'm giving this to everybody.

So tell people in the next five ish

minutes, like, holy crap,

you got another one,

but this is a different type of

inflammation.

Cause we know cardiovascular disease and

the standardized testing,

like this is one step forward,

but so impactful.

Yeah.

It's really interesting.

So, you know,

I kind of follow different people who kind

of read and kind of write some really

interesting stuff around cardiovascular

health.

But like we talked about up front,

it's fundamentally eat less,

exercise more is what they come back with.

And it's worse than that on the basis

that the standard lipid profile,

they did a study with over a hundred

thousand patients,

fifty percent of patients who had a heart

attack of that hundred thousand.

had a normal lipid profile on the day

of the heart attack.

So it's basically telling you that you're

probably better off to go and buy a

coin versus spend all that money on a

lipid profile.

But unfortunately,

the lipid profile is the only thing the

insurance companies will cover.

Now, that's a problem.

So we said, well, how do we go...

a couple of steps further without going to

your point, Josh,

of I've now got ten vials of blood

in front of me.

I feel faint.

And I'm sure the results will be

fascinating.

But will I make it out back to

my car in time to kind of refill

on some of the blood they've just taken

out of me?

So the idea was,

let's do a finger stick, keep it simple,

be done in the office.

There's a big hole somewhere out in the

world where people have got all these

tubes that never quite made it to the

phlebotomist.

So the idea was

Let's make sure they can do the test

either at home or in the office.

Because not everyone has the access to the

botany that every office has.

The concept was keep it short,

keep it simple,

and that's really what we did.

We added a couple of my favorite markers.

APOB is a great marker to give you

a really good indication of heart attack

risk.

The other market that if you all remember

nothing else from what this crazy English

guy was talking about is LP little a.

All right.

Make sure if you see a cardiologist,

you don't let him out the building unless

he tests you for LP little a.

It's basically a genetic market.

And one in three of the US population

have it.

And so it basically means if you have

elevated levels of LP little a,

it means your plaquing risk goes up

exponentially.

So if you do nothing else apart from

listen to this thing is go and get

tested for LP little a.

It's a genetic test.

You only need to be tested once for

it.

And it'll tell you how aggressive your

plaque is,

which is a fundamental part of

cardiovascular health, which most people,

it's again,

the most staggering number is one percent

of the US population have been tested for

it.

So again,

that's another key one that you can walk

away with from here is

run that cardiovascular inflammation test,

you'll get your LP little a.

And that's what you should give everyone

in your family for Christmas is a

cardiovascular inflammation test to see of

everyone around the table who's got that

elevated LP little a. Because again,

that is a dramatic improvement on your

health,

but it's just a small advancement in terms

of that standard lipid profile.

And so for me, again,

it's one of those things as a,

you know, as someone standing back,

maybe trying to look at these things in

more an entrepreneurial way, I say like,

what makes sense?

What can we give them a little bit

more?

LP little a and APOB.

And also rather than, you know, having,

we had a direct measurement because a lot

of these lipid profiles,

it's an indirect measurement as well,

or it's a measured versus direct.

So again,

we made sure that we were measuring these

things as well.

So

All minor things,

but when you put them together,

all very helpful.

We also measured a thing called

homocysteine, which is another key marker,

again, looking at inflammation.

And we've done studies

on back to the food sensitivity test.

And one of the ones was looking at

IBS patients.

And it was an IRB approved,

which basically just means that James got

charged a lot more money.

But it was an IRB approved study,

which is all good to say,

a hundred patients.

What we saw was a dramatic reduction in

the IBS severity score of all these

patients.

But more importantly,

the patients that we have that

intervention in,

they also saw a dramatic reduction in

their high sensitive CRP and their

homocysteine levels.

And so that's why we added both of

those markers onto our cardiovascular

inflammation test.

Because again,

that inflammation isn't just limited to

your heart, it's all through your body.

So again,

we wanted to make sure these systems all

interact.

Let's make sure we see some of these

links going on within the cardiovascular

health,

as well as the gut health as well.

Well, that's to me,

like you took simple markers, but yeah,

if you can manage homocysteine,

C-reactive protein, ApoB, LP little a,

like

The why not is so fun.

It's like one percent.

And if we did that and this test

is only a couple hundred bucks,

it's not expensive.

But the amount of information that we get

out of that puts so much level of

awareness.

And yes,

you need some let's call it a functional

lens to work those numbers.

But if you can see inflammation in that

way,

The aha I got out of that conference

was kind of what you said with the

fifty percent thing.

Right.

It's like the number one symptom.

We know cardiovascular disease is the

number one killer.

Right.

Half of you are going to die from

that.

So there's half the population.

The other population is.

The note,

the first symptom of cardiovascular

disease and thirty five percent of that

half is death.

death exactly that's that's the worst

symptom to have especially the first one

right yeah exactly and if you improve

omega-three index in your blood and you

knew that you were inflamed that

thirty-five percent goes way down like

ninety percent so that's why I pump people

full of omega-threes and this one test

will help us move us in the direction

way beyond the pills, right?

This is beyond the labs,

way beyond a standard lipid panel, right?

And so to me, again,

for a couple hundred dollars for each one

of these tests with the right person who

knows what they're talking about,

you could do major good health, right?

in a way that's scalable.

Again, this is affordable stuff.

It would be really good if we could

get these approved by insurance,

but you know what?

We all have to put our,

the insurance pays for sickness,

not wellness.

So you did,

you took that one percent and even jumping

that up,

five percent points is going to change

millions of lives.

And so that's why I love this

conversation, James,

because that's the impact we're talking

about, something simple.

And I think it was, again,

the nice thing for us is, you know,

one of the great pleasures I have is

going out talking to providers and,

you know,

I thought we cracked the code by making

sure we were looking at inflammation and

then looking at the immune health.

But literally I had providers saying,

it's really weird.

We fixed those two things.

I still had patients having heart attacks.

I was like, well,

Jesus, that's right.

That's the third leg of the stool.

We need to look at that.

But it was kind of like, oh,

I can't rest yet.

We've got to work on cardiovascular.

So but it was fun to see, look,

here's three different elements.

And if you can work on those three

with two very simple tests,

you give the patient a way of taking

ownership of their journey.

And again, they're not dramatic changes,

but the information that we give them,

I think,

is demonstrable improvement in terms of

their overall health.

Well, when people pay, they pay attention.

That's one.

So you got to be informed, confident,

and make those decisions.

But once they see it,

you can't unsee it.

You can choose not to do anything with

it.

But what we're talking about is in the

health and wellness and healing

perspective is prevention is a cure.

If I could prevent you from having a

heart attack,

Like I, I feel good at night.

I feel like I'm saving lives and I

feel like I'm sleeping really well.

And if you said your dad died of

a heart attack, well,

we can talk about epigenetics,

but we let's look, let's see.

Like these are, it's fun.

It's like, I don't,

there's nothing wrong with the standard of

care, except the standard needs to evolve.

Right.

Literally the

If it only cost a couple hundred bucks

on everybody's insurance plan,

this is not going to bankrupt society.

GOP ones cost fifteen hundred dollars a

month.

Like we could reverse these things.

And holy moly,

this is the these are the I love

this supplement side of wellness made

simple.

Like here's the top five things

everybody's going to need.

And now it's like I've moved it into

the lab spaces.

Like if you do nothing,

these are two really good things to do.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think that's the that's I think

where we've tried to kind of differentiate

ourselves from other labs is how do we

keep these things simple?

Because we appreciate the providers are so

busy and everyone's got a new, sharper,

smarter way of doing everything.

What our approach is,

how do we make it as simple as

possible?

Not forgetting the importance of the great

science in terms of all the scientists

that we've got working behind the scenes

and all these things are brilliant.

And again,

that's one of the things we try to

do is work out.

Let's make sure we start with the world's

best science and then simplify those

results so the patient can actually

understand them and move forward.

And that's really the idea.

So all the reports we have are color

coded, dark green being good.

dark red being a bit of a problem.

The idea is simplify things to the point,

because again, even with all the reports,

you won't see many numbers on them.

That's not because I'm illiterate from

another standpoint.

It's because if I tell a patient their

triglycerides are

Why should they know that that's a really

bad number to have?

They shouldn't know that.

But if they look at their number and

say, oh, look, it's in the red,

that probably is an issue.

Correct.

And so we're trying to make sure we

can simplify things enough that the

provider and the patient can look at it.

The other thing we've done with the food

sensitivity is we've given the patient an

app.

So the provider reviews the results.

And then, fourteen days later,

the patient gets the results on the phone.

Because, again, we've all been patients.

We've all been like deer in the headlights

when the provider is rattling off all

these results and all these numbers going.

I'm totally overwhelmed.

I've got no idea really what he's saying.

I'm going to nod and hopefully avoid eye

contact.

And so the idea is that the app

is something you can look at afterwards.

You say, oh, my gosh,

what did I get tested for?

Where was I on that scale to see

what's going on in terms of good or

bad?

And as well as that.

On the food sensitivity,

we've also made sure they get a meal

plan.

So you've got actually a way of moving

forward on that rather than going, yeah,

I don't understand those results,

but that's okay.

I didn't understand the last twenty years'

worth of results either.

So the other neat thing with food

sensitivity, again,

which is slightly different from

cardiovascular is there's no judgment

attached to these results because most of

our patients have been bounced around the

healthcare system,

have been bashed over the head by all

the providers going, God, you're terrible.

Your numbers are all over the place.

With a food sensitivity test,

if it happens to be that Josh is

sensitive to egg, James is milk,

that's just great information that we

found out which can bring down our overall

inflammation.

And we can then feel good that we

actually took something out of our diet

and, wow, we feel better,

whatever that symptom might have been,

whether it was skin, pain, joint relief,

headaches, migraines,

whatever it might have been.

so that's the key i think with this

test and why i think we see a

lot of the providers really really like

this test and patients because there's no

judgment we're not saying oh how bad is

josh because he's eating eggs no josh

let's take that out and let's see how

you feel and so it's that's the kind

of approach it's a it's more of a

collaborative experience between the

provider and the patient and one where the

patient can actually take control of their

own destiny versus going oh my god

Here's a fifty page genetic report.

Oh, my God.

I've got no idea what that is.

I'm going to pay the money because

hopefully they'll make me feel better.

It doesn't work that way.

Whereas with this test,

it's easy to understand intentionally

because we want the patient to actually

move forward and have a positive outcome.

The other nice thing for the providers is

then on top of that,

the provider then has earned the trust of

the patient because they're starting to

feel better.

This investment made some sense.

What else, Josh,

do you think I should be doing now?

Because I'm feeling better already in a

short period of time.

And I think that's the other nice thing

about this is it's not an instant,

because again,

but it's certainly within weeks or days,

we're seeing patients have a demonstrable

improvement if they're prepared to take

out.

In general,

it's never more than five to ten foods.

So I think it gives you a really

easy way of accessing better health,

but with something you understand,

because we all know what an egg is.

We all know what milk is.

But again,

Not everyone knows what triglycerides are

or zonulin or lipopolysaccharides,

and why should they?

The idea here is to democratize this,

to make it simple and make sure that

if you invest in this test and follow

through on it,

you'll see a positive outcome.

I love that.

It's simple, easy.

lucrative because you're not spending what

you don't need i always tell people i'm

going to spend your money like i'd spend

mine yeah and now we're getting evolved so

simple easy lucrative and fun is my

definition of self-care and this is this

is one of those things because crap like

we do these two things we're doing really

good and that's that's going to take

wellness

In that eighty twenty rule, like, yes,

of course.

Why do this complex when you can do

simple first?

Right.

We can always move down that line.

But if you do feel better,

these inflammation markers are going down.

Your lipids are looking way better.

We're changing a lot on those numbers that

have a high impact.

And all of a sudden we put the

right stuff in and you're feeling great.

Done.

I'm good.

I'm happy with you.

You know,

and that makes you didn't touch on this,

but you also make the clinicians lives

easier.

Right.

You have a portal.

You have you have a free hotline.

You can make appointments to talk to

providers.

So pharmacists who can finger stick

because they do this for all clear waiver.

Right.

We got it.

So pharmacists all over the country in the

in this country, twenty thousand of them.

can be doing these tests tomorrow and

getting really good results without having

to know anything.

Yeah.

And I think the other important thing is

Every pharmacy has got some amazing

products,

but these tests help identify which of

those amazing products work for each of

the patients or customers coming through

the door.

And I think that's the other nice thing

about this.

It's like there is no doubt that every

pharmacy has got the most amazing

products.

These tests help you work out which of

the products which are amazing for you,

the consumer, walking through the door.

Which is why when we're in the midst

of launching our RX to wellness platform

and men's vitality and women's radiance

and even foundations,

we want to include these in the everybody

needs it.

Right.

And so that way it's like, oh,

my gosh, we have a big impact here.

on a very,

very crucial things in our time where we

can actually reverse some of these things

and move people towards getting off

medicines,

getting off things they don't need.

That's the essence of this program, right?

Is de-prescribing ten million unnecessary

medications.

Well, how do you unnecessary a medication?

You peel the body.

And we just covered two major,

huge things.

We didn't have time for oat.

I wanted to talk about it.

We will talk about it at some point.

For sure.

organic acid tests and you're working on

some other big projects.

What's next for KBMO?

So we've got,

we've just rolled out the organic acids.

We're looking at mycotoxins coming down

the line as well.

And we're looking at some other brain to

gut markers as well that will be included

in that gut barrier panel.

It's not only leaky gut, it's leaky brain.

And so while leaky brain is like,

we didn't talk like,

how do we do something simple to cause

cognitive dysfunction?

Cause it's,

the number one thing people are worried

about in their health is losing their

marbles.

And so if we can do something simple,

I can't wait to be a part of

that.

Cause then you just knocked off another

aha.

So we got double ahas today, my friend,

how do people find out more about these

tests and, and,

Obviously, if you're in our programming,

we're going to be able to do this

for you.

So stay tuned, stay ready, people.

I would say go see Josh in the

program because it's all going to be

available through there.

So I would say that would be...

the first first up spot.

Because you are practitioner only.

Yeah, yeah.

So because we're direct to provider, Josh,

obviously direct to patient.

So again,

the idea is that we want to make

sure we funnel it through their great

tests,

but they're great tests in the hands of

a great provider.

And I think that's where this really kind

of helps bring everything together.

And that's one of the things that we

focused on is to make sure that we

can not only give the providers a good

test, but also some protocols,

but around those tests,

which they can pass on to the patient.

So it's really joining the kind of dots,

as it were,

to make sure that everything works

together.

And so we're a small part of that

in terms of the testing.

And it's really the power of those

providers that we work with,

which enables the kind of magic to happen.

And so that's why we always think it's

really good to kind of work with great

providers like Josh and his crew on that

end as well.

Well, I appreciate that.

And I'm really looking forward to working

with you to getting these these labs and

educating those pharmacists,

because I've been doing that for a long

time and.

Look, that is the accessibility point.

You don't have to go to another advanced

doctor.

Everybody's going into the pharmacy twelve

times a year.

And these are the things we can do.

So I'm looking forward to growing this on

a big level with you.

Thank you so much.

My pleasure.

We're coming back on oat and mycotoxins.

I got I got to get your stamp

on that.

But man, this is fun.

I'm glad that we crossed paths when we

did.

And I'm looking forward to the future.

Well, thank you for the opportunity.

Much appreciated.

All right, guys,

this was an amazing episode.

That's a wrap.

Until next time, stay well.