Warning: This episode discusses the details of a case of animal cruelty where the defendant was charged with felony animal cruelty.

We are joined by Sandusky Chief Dog Warden Kelly Pocock, whose hard work and determination resulted in the arrest, prosecution, and conviction of a dog killer. Solving this case involved crime scene investigation, necropsy, blood spatter, interrogation, and interviews and is a case that should be an example to other officers facing similar cases. This case also includes the presentation to the court of a Victim Impact Statement on behalf of the deceased dog, something that we do not see because animals are not normally recognized as victims of crime, just property.

In addition to the interview with Kelly, our listeners will be able to hear the interview with the suspect and, along with us, dissect the information to determine if he is telling the truth or not.

Following Kelly's interview, we follow up with the Humane Society of the United States' Laura Koivula, who shares how the HSUS assisted this small rural town with this big investigation.

Help us spread the word by liking, rating, and sharing this podcast. Let's share the voice of this dog and encourage others to do more.

Mentioned in this episode:

Keep it Humane Podcast Network

The Animal Welfare Junction is part of the Keep It Humane Podcast Network. Visit keepithumane.com/podcastnetwork to find us and our amazing animal welfare podcast partners.

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Use keyword keepithumane at checkout at livetrap.com

Hi and welcome to the Animal Welfare Junction.

2

This is your host Dr.

3

G and our music is written

and produced by Mike Sullivan.

4

I want to warn everybody that

today's episode is about a case

5

of criminal assault on a dog.

6

We're going to be discussing a traumatic

experience that a dog suffered, a dog

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that did die from that experience.

8

So I want everybody that's listening

to take self care and make sure

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that they're not too affected by

what we're going to be discussing.

10

To discuss this case, we have Kelly

Pocock from Sandusky County, and

11

she's going to introduce herself and

let us know, where she started and

12

how she got to where she's at today.

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Kelly Pocock: Hi, I'm Kelly.

14

I'm the Chief Dog Warden and, um,

Chief Humane Agent for Sandusky County.

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We are located up in Fremont, Ohio.

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Um, I started as an animal cruelty

investigator, um, I think I watched

17

the first ever episode of Animal

Cops and I was on my couch and I

18

was just like woke up instantly.

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This is what I'm supposed

to do with my life.

20

Um, that was in like the year 2000.

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So, um, minus a couple of years

that I've taken off, I've done

22

this for the last 25 years.

23

Um, we've seen a lot of legal

changes, law changes, we've, we've

24

dealt with a lot of this stuff.

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We've watched this grow into a much

needed field over the last 25 years.

26

DrG: Thank you so much for being here

and for sharing the story of this dog.

27

I mean, it's a story that needs

to be told just because it.

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It has a lot of issues as far as the

link between human violence and animal

29

violence , and we want to let people

know that sometimes the good guys win

30

and the people that do bad things

to animals do get to pay for it.

31

So for anyone not familiar with this

case, this new segment from ABC 13 Action

32

News summarizes the initial findings.

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ABC 13 Action News: It's a

heartbreaking image of a dog,

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killed at the hands of abuse.

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Just from the evidence at the scene,

it appeared that the dog had died

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from blunt force trauma to the head.

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Kelly Pocock is the

Sandusky County Dog Warden.

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She posted this picture to the

dog kennel's Facebook page with

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the hope of generating some leads.

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Anybody that saw anything, no

matter how small they think it, of

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a detail they think that it might

be, it could be a huge detail to us.

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Pocock says, Fremont police contacted

her office after someone riding a

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bike called 9 1 1 about the dog.

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It was off the North Coast inland

Trail near Roger Young Park.

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According to investigators, the person

who spotted the dog's body came down

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this trail at about 10 o'clock Sunday

morning and did not see anything.

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When that person returned around

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Blood splattered on the pavement

leading down the bank of the Sandusky

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River to the body of that dog.

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They did not see the

blood splatter at 10 a.

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m.

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But they did see it at 11 45.

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So we know that it happened

between those hours.

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The sign on the bridge states

surveillance cameras in use.

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However, Pocock says they're

not pointed at this area.

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She sent the dog for a necropsy at O.

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S.

58

U.

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It will help determine how the dog died.

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DrG: Kelly, can you tell us about that

day, what was the call that you got

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and, and what happened after that?

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Kelly Pocock: So initially, our local

police department, the Fremont police

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department, they were dispatched.

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Someone had called in that they were

jogging along the bike trail and that

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they saw a deceased dog down on the rocks.

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They arrived on scene first.

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They immediately knew that

there was foul play involved.

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They gave us a call.

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We responded.

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It was a Sunday.

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We responded due to the situation,

and as soon as we saw the, the scene

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as well, we, we knew that there

was, some malevity going on there.

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Just the, the layout of the scene, the

evidence that was left there, the way

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the dog was laying, the amount of blood

in certain areas, we, we knew that

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there was, um, something most probably

illegal that had had taken place.

76

DrG: Somebody walked by that

area, and didn't see anything.

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And then when they came back,

then they saw the blood trail.

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Kelly Pocock: Correct.

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And then they followed the blood

trail down and they could see the

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dog down about 30 feet on the rocks.

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DrG: And the blood trail was

underneath a bridge within the trail?

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Kelly Pocock: There's like, um, I'm

not even sure what the tunnel is

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there for, but it's a bike trail, and

then there's this , there's a train

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trestle that goes over top of it.

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So there's this little tiny it's

only maybe 50 feet long, but it

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is a little tiny tunnel that you

walk under for the bike trail.

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Um, it's, it connects about a quarter

of a mile back to one of our local

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baseball parks in the city of Fremont,

and then it kind of comes over to an

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area where there's a bridge and I'll

take you downtown so it's kind of

90

a very busy area.

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So I was a little like,

how did this happen?

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There's like 200 people at this baseball

park right now, a quarter of a mile away.

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How did nobody hear or see

anything is initially like

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somebody had to see something.

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So, I mean, before we ever even started

to process the scene, I'm putting plans

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in my head about, like, how are we going

to do this, um, we're going to have to

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get something out on Facebook so we can

start asking people if you saw anything,

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if you were in this area, if you just

think it was nothing, but it could have

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been something, call us and tell us,

looking for any amount of, um, feedback

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from the community that we could possibly

get because we knew it was going to be

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a struggle to prove who owned this dog.

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Once we got there, we immediately

started to process the scene.

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We photographed everything.

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Fremont Police Department was

amazing in their assistance to us.

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Um, they helped get the dog up.

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It was a pretty steep incline, very

large kind of boulder type rocks.

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Um, easily your feet would

slip out from underneath you.

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So they went down and even helped us

get the, get her body up to the edge

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so that we could kind of take a better

look at her and see what was going on.

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They assisted us in numerous other ways.

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They were pretty incredible

throughout the whole situation.

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DrG: What was your 1st

impression of the dog?

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Kelly Pocock: So I would have walked

right past her and I would have missed her

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because she was, um, like a grayish black,

female pit bull, very young, probably

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somewhere between eight to 12 months old.

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But the way she was positioned down on

the rocks, again, it was like probably

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a good 30 feet down, she was belly up.

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So her belly blended

with all of those rocks.

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I had to literally like scan back

and forth in order to even, they're

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like, she's right down there.

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Well, they didn't really

walk over and point it out.

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So I like go to the edge and I'm

looking and I'm trying to like, my

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eyes are scanning back and forth

and it took me a minute to find her.

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So, um, you know, I mean, she was kind

of, you know, I don't want to say like

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spread out like her arms, like her

front legs were above her head her back

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legs were kind of stretched out, which

would have been like if she had been in

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her belly would have been behind her.

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And then there was like, all the way down,

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there was like a blood trail, but

then there was like one area where

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there was a large accumulation

of a good amount of blood.

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And then the blood trail went down

further, but there was like less

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blood in the trail as it went down

from like that initial kind of large

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quantity of blood down to where the

dog was where we, where we found her.

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DrG: You collected the body,

took pictures, which you

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took really great pictures.

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You know, you took pictures that

showed the whole scene, pictures

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from a mid range, closeup pictures

of everything, including the

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blood pooling, the, the trail.

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And, uh, and then as you mentioned

in the rocks, there was an area

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that had more blood and then the

area where, where she was at.

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Kelly Pocock: Um, we took

her back to the kennel.

142

We attempted to pose her in, in a way

that we, because we know there's a lot

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of people that follow our Facebook page.

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So we, we try to pose them in a

way, but we didn't, we had to be

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very, Careful with her because we

didn't want to disturb any evidence.

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So, you know, we're trying to

pose her in a way so that we can

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get a picture of the dog that was

killed out there to the public.

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So if they recognize the dog, we're

going to get that feedback as well.

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Um, but that was that proved to be

a little bit more difficult because

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we didn't want to disturb any of the

possible evidence that was on the body.

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So, um, yeah.

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That probably shows that photograph

in the news feed that you just played

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so you can see like you obviously

can tell that she's deceased.

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Um, there was definite injuries , like

we knew the cause of death before we

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sent her body in for a necropsy , that

was very evident, of course, the

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necropsy determined and then Dr.

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G can.

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Like continued on with that,

like, um, exactly like how many

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times she was hit in the head.

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Um, additional injuries that

occurred during that assault to her.

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Um, but we were able to kind of like,

hey, we're looking for information on who

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possibly could have owned this dog and.

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You know, um, if anybody has any

information, you can call this into us.

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You can remain anonymous.

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We're just looking for information.

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We got a couple like, Hey, I

noticed this house over here,

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it had a dog and I haven't seen

a dog there since that day.

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So we would like go follow up on

every single lead that came in.

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We would go follow up on that.

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Um, again, Fremont police department was

key in helping us trace down some of these

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they were getting anonymous tips as well

that they were following up on their own.

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Nothing was really panning out.

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And, um, I had already reached out to

the Humane Society of the United States.

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They assisted us in, um, getting

that necropsy performed.

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They assisted us in

getting in contact with Dr.

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G, um, so that we could get the forensic

veterinarian knowledge put into the case.

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But they also offered to put up a

reward, which was, I thought like for

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this small little rural community,

like this is really going to be key.

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And getting people that are afraid

to open up, they'll open up.

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Like, you can still remain anonymous.

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Like, we don't have to really share

your name and information to anyone.

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Blah, blah, blah.

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No one wanted the reward.

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Every single person that called in an

anonymous tip wanted to stay anonymous.

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They didn't care about the reward.

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They wanted justice for this dog.

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So, like, at the same time that, like,

My faith in society is being destroyed.

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My faith in society is being

rebuilt like in another on

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another level somewhere else.

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We had gotten numerous anonymous

tips, um, a lot of these tips were

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coming in from family and friends.

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Um, they did not want to be named.

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They made it very clear to us that they

were afraid of this person, but they're

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like, that dog was there the other day.

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That dog's not there anymore.

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Um, I went back over to make sure

and that maybe the dog just, I

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asked what happened to the dog.

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Nothing's wrong, she's in the

house, but you can't come in.

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So there were like multiple

statements like that.

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So we had a, a lot of people

pointing towards Leshawn Gilleland.

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I would say somewhere between probably

seven to 10 different anonymous tips

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that pointed us in the

direction of Leshawn Gilleland.

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So, you know, some of them came in

and they were just, go check, I saw

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this dog, I haven't seen this dog.

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We did a couple of those, but the majority

of the information that was coming

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to us was, um, this is what happened.

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And then as we got closer, you

know, we just had a little bit,

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like his name's being mentioned

in these anonymous tips to us.

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And then, the big, I guess, anonymous

tip came in from the friend that

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said, hey, like, I know I gave

him that dog when it was a puppy.

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This is what's going on.

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Like, I, he won't tell me why,

but I know that he did it.

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I know that that was the dog.

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He's been acting funny ever since, like,

we're not going to be friends anymore.

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And he was, I mean, I don't really

want my name mentioned, but then

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again, I don't really care either.

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So, we ended up coming across this

lead because the individual responsible

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for her death started to brag.

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If he would have never opened his mouth, I

don't think we ever would have caught him.

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They had words in regards

to the whole situation.

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Um, and I mean, like, lifelong friends

and they're no longer friends because

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this person was adamant that you

just don't treat animals like that.

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Um, he no longer cared if he knew.

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In fact, there was, they worked together.

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There was an altercation broke

up at work because he was calling

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him out on what he had done.

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He wanted to know why , Mr.

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Gilleland refused to tell him why.

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And like, it just so happened that

that happened, and then the next

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day I got with, uh, um, and our

investigator for the prosecutor's

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office, and he went with me to his

place of employment so that we could do

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an interview and, um, so obviously

we audio video reported that.

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So at that point, it was like,

well, now we have enough evidence

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to move forward on at least going

and bringing him in for questioning.

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Let's see where what he

claims happened that day.

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If he, if he says anything,

where was he that day?

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Does he have an alibi that he was

with that can say "no, sorry, he was

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with me all day", "we weren't around

the dog", "I don't know what happened

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to the dog", or he might be able to

say, "Hey, the dog that, you know,

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they're all putting the finger at looks

like the dog that you guys found".

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But, you know, I mean, we always

try to give like, every possible,

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like, we could have a million options

sitting in front of us and we're

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trying not to rule out anything.

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We want this to take us

where the proof lies.

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So we know that, you know,

we're going to show up.

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Most people deny this.

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So literally that's what I was expecting.

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I was expecting him to deny like, "I

don't know, I've never seen that dog.

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No, I had a dog that looked like her,

but I got that dog and I sent her to a

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friend's house over in so and so city".

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So that's kind of what my expectation

was of going over and talking to him.

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Um, the investigator that we used, he

is a, um, like 40 plus year veteran.

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He is, was amazing detective before

he became an investigator for the

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prosecutor's office , and he just

really knows how to talk to people and

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he, um, sat down and I, I asked him

to assist me with this because it's

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not something that I would normally

question people about, and I want

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to do the best job I can on this.

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So I have no problem asking for help.

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So we sat down with him together and

investigator Odo led the conversation with

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Leshawn and he, he never denied it at all.

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Yes.

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I know why you're here.

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I know the, yes, that was my dog.

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Yes, she is dead.

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I did kill her.

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Um, but then he went on to the, I had

to kill her because she was suffering.

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He thought he had justification

because he claims she was hit by a car.

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He's still to this day claims

that she was hit by a car.

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So that was kinda like, okay, so now I

had this other whole part of this case

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that I have to prove the intent to harm.

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And so that it, it wasn't like a, an

act of ending an animal suffering.

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Um, so then, you know, we're, it's

kind of like this whole rat race to

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get to the point that we're at, only

to find out where're in another hole.

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But like, that's, that's the way it goes.

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So, um, he just, he never denied.

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He, he said he did it.

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My story's not going to change.

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I didn't talk to anybody about this.

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I've never spoken to anybody about this.

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If they tell you they

talked to me, they're liars.

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He made that comment to us multiple times.

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If you make that comment to me once, okay.

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You make it to me multiple

times, you told somebody.

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You just kind of get that gut feeling.

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You told somebody and you're

trying to get out in front of that.

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That's human nature.

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Get out in front of the

lie that you just said.

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So, you know, we just like we we told

him we weren't going to arrest him the

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day that we were there to speak to him.

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We told him we want you to go back

home, you know, to your family.

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We just need to know what

happened to this dog.

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We need to know what's going on.

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We have to find closure for

this case and for this animal.

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Um, if there was foul play, we have

to find justice for this animal.

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Um, and we stayed good to our word, like

we didn't, we didn't arrest him that day,

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we let him say his piece, we went back,

we evaluated it, we went over the audio.

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We could find no scientific

evidence of that.

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We could find no physical evidence.

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No video evidence of all of the

cameras in the area of where he

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claimed the dog had been hit by a car.

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Um, he didn't see it happen.

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He didn't even see the car.

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He never saw the dog even fall down.

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Somebody told him, hey, your dog was

just hit by a car and he turned around

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and the dog was already walking to him.

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So he didn't see any like.

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The story wasn't adding up where he's

telling us the dogs been hit by a car.

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So we were pretty sure that, like,

with all the video, um, the security

309

footage we gathered from all of

the local businesses and stuff that

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there, the dog was never hit by a car.

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Um, we sent it to you so

that you could evaluate it.

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DrG: So I, let's go over that

interview because that was a,

313

that was a really good interview.

314

Like you mentioned, I mean the

investigator did a really good job as

315

far as the questions that he was asking.

316

And what, and there were a lot of

things that, that he said that he

317

was kinda allowing himself to be led.

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Gilleland: I'm just,

I'm gonna be get real.

319

'cause I don't wanna bullshit.

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I don't do karma.

321

Lauren, this, this,

this is how it happened.

322

I was having a week.

323

I picked her up and I picked her up.

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Um, she came out the house.

325

I was took her for a walk, there

was he chewed up something and um,

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Detective: What's dog's name?

327

Gilleland: Um, ganja dogs.

328

That dog that it is that

it wasn't my, it is my dog.

329

Dog's name was ganja.

330

Took her for a walk cause

they wanted to get away.

331

She talks some baby shit and

kicking and we having fun.

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I'm taking her.

333

She walked.

334

Somebody's like smacks her like by the

head, but she looks like she's fine.

335

She looks like she's fine.

336

So I keep walking her.

337

I'm taking her on.

338

You see where everything

that was on the trail.

339

She's on the trail.

340

I'm walking straight.

341

I'm walking, I'm walking, I'm

walking on the trail and I'm walking.

342

I'm like, she's not behind me.

343

. She's, she's, she's, so, she

wasn't not a leash or anything?

344

She wasn't, she was.

345

No, I never, I've been, I, I've

been training her how to walk.

346

She's more friendly than my other dog.

347

Mm-hmm.

348

. And I want, I got the dog, puppy from

my daughter, like was for her like

349

protection, just sense of security.

350

That's why I got her in the first place.

351

Mm-hmm.

352

. And so as I'm walking after that

happened, she looked like she was fine.

353

Like she was still walking when we

were, when I got where the tunnel's at.

354

Where the, where you seen everything at.

355

I was walking and she wasn't following me.

356

Mm-hmm.

357

. And I was like, so I went back,

she was on the ground shaking.

358

Mm-hmm.

359

, it looked like she was suffering.

360

And I just didn't know what to do.

361

She was suffering like it

looked like she was mm-hmm.

362

. She was just shaking.

363

When you say somebody hit her, somebody.

364

Yeah.

365

Well, I was walking across,

I wasn't paying attention.

366

Mm-hmm.

367

, I was walking across the street I

was talking to somebody said hi.

368

I was walking across, she just took off.

369

Mm-hmm.

370

, boom.

371

They kept going when she

looked like she was fine.

372

Detective: So somebody in a car?

373

Gilleland: Yeah.

374

In a car, yeah.

375

Detective: Hit her.

376

Gilleland: She looked like she was fine.

377

I was like, I kept walking with her.

378

When we got, when I took her up there,

when we got to the fucking, where

379

that, where that the tunnel's at.

380

I kept walking because normally

she's like right behind me.

381

She's not too far.

382

She's real playful.

383

She just wasn't, and when I

turned around, I walked back.

384

I was all the way.

385

It's the tunnel, and I got to, basically

where on the trail where it wraps around

386

like it's getting ready to come up.

387

I stopped there 'cause I was

like, normally I'd be like, God,

388

she always woo she comes to me.

389

She wasn't, she was there,

where are you seeing it at?

390

And then I did that 'cause I was

like, I felt like she was suffering.

391

And that's why I did it.

392

And then I got nervous because, um,

I was trying to put her peacefully,

393

like down there by the rocks.

394

And I put her, I tucked her,

but then, then she fell.

395

So I, I went back down there and

I tried to move it and then I seen

396

people coming and I just didn't want to

397

Detective: kind of freaked you out.

398

Gilleland: It freaked me out.

399

So I, so I left.

400

So it looked like I did some gruesome.

401

Detective: So did you, did you have

to put your dog, I'm going to say

402

put your dog down, did you have to,

403

I don't know, put the dog down?

404

Gilliland: Yeah, yeah, because she was,

yeah, but she was like, it was shaking

405

and stuff was coming out of her mouth.

406

Detective: So how, how did

you end up doing that then?

407

Gilliland: No, I just picked, I

didn't, I panicked, I just picked

408

up the thing and I just hit it.

409

Detective: With a rock you said?

410

Gilleland: Yeah, yeah, that's what it was.

411

I didn't, I didn't want to do it

as my, as opposed to my daughter.

412

You feel me?

413

But she was

414

just,

415

Gilliland: she was shaking and shit.

416

And I just didn't know what to do.

417

And I didn't want to take

her back to the house.

418

Like, I didn't, I didn't

know what else to do.

419

Detective: So you just took her

down and put her in the rocks?

420

Gilleland: And then I just been

having everybody like, It's

421

like, and then I'm seeing like

what they said on the internet.

422

And I go, wait, like, no,

but like nobody was there.

423

Nobody, everybody made it sound like.

424

That was my dog, you feel me?

425

It was for my daughter.

426

And I didn't want to do that.

427

Everybody just...

428

It was overwhelming.

429

I would have been sad to death.

430

That was my dog.

431

But it just...

432

I was like, ah, it's a

potential situation in jail.

433

And then I just had my daughter.

434

I didn't want to talk about it.

435

And then the person that I got the dog

from, my friend, he's mad at me for it.

436

I didn't want to explain it to him because

I thought the law would get involved.

437

And so I just kind of kept it to myself.

438

I kind of been holding on to it.

439

I damn near cried when I did it

because I was, I wasn't, you feel me?

440

But I should have been, I guess I

should have said something, but it's

441

a lot going on, man, I just didn't.

442

Detective: Did you think about maybe

calling the police or anything, or

443

taking the dog to a vet, or what?

444

Gilleland: Um, my background, I'm better

now, but I don't like dealing with it.

445

And I just felt like, what can they do?

446

It was my dog, it was more

sentimental value, I just felt

447

like there's nothing there.

448

Detective: It just doesn't look good.

449

Yeah, I know.

450

The way it went down, I mean.

451

Yeah, I know.

452

People are saying that you just killed the

dog because you didn't want it anymore.

453

Gilleland: No, I want the dog.

454

Every day, I love the dog.

455

I'm gonna take it.

456

Her, she's the reason why my other dog...

457

That like, calm down.

458

Like, that was like his,

you know what I'm saying?

459

He was peace for me too.

460

'cause she's so, like, uh, she

was so, I'm kind of like a ah,

461

like a rah rah type of person.

462

And her being around forced me to

like, you know, like, relax, calm down.

463

And the reason I got it was

just like, for my daughter.

464

And I don't know.

465

Detective: Okay.

466

So I have to ask.

467

Yeah.

468

Because if I don't ask, my boss's

gonna say, well, did you ask him this?

469

So, you didn't kill the dog to

get rid of the dog because...

470

No.

471

Okay.

472

You went out to the hospital

a couple weeks before that.

473

Yeah.

474

Was it that dog that bit you?

475

Gilleland: No, no, no.

476

That was a random dog.

477

They were both outside.

478

It was like a white brownish,

kind of like a pit bull dog.

479

She was, um, I don't

never put her on a leash.

480

She doesn't need it.

481

She knows where to go.

482

I put the big dog on a leash.

483

So, I was, um...

484

I put her on a leash.

485

I didn't, I put, I was putting him

while I was putting him on a leash.

486

The random dog came like he

was running towards my dog.

487

So I tried to run in there.

488

He got me on my arm.

489

Yeah, he did.

490

He got me on my arm

and I ended up falling.

491

Detective: Is that the scars there from?

492

Gilleland: Yeah, yeah.

493

I have this too and this is

already healing, but as I fell,

494

he got, my other dog was chained.

495

My other dog probably would have tore him

up, but he was on, he was on the chain.

496

And then, um, I was on my way to work.

497

I just went, I ended up

going to, it's right.

498

It's feeling up.

499

I can't, I'm going to take my pants off.

500

It's healed up, but

that's how that happened.

501

It was just a random dog.

502

Sometimes, it wasn't the neighbor's dog,

but sometimes dogs would randomly come.

503

And I was nervous.

504

I'm like, oh, he's outside.

505

I'm like, oh, he's gonna get my puppy.

506

Detective: Did you tell anybody

what happen, that somebody

507

would maybe misconstrue

508

Gilleland: I never, I never

talked to anybody about it.

509

I never told, I never, you're the

first people I talked to about it.

510

My friend was mad, I got, the

dog was mad at me because I

511

wouldn't talk to him about it.

512

I just said I don't want

to talk about it right now.

513

I've never told, I've never...

514

Detective: Were people saying

that you killed the dog on purpose

515

because you didn't want it?

516

I guess, I'm trying to figure

out how we ended up hearing that.

517

Gilleland: Um, I, I, from what I, from

what I heard recently, two days ago, I

518

have a friend that's like a brother to me.

519

Uh, we've been friends for

years, they're my brother.

520

We had a falling out.

521

I basically...

522

Cut him out of my life, even

when I stopped talking to

523

him, I just kicked him out.

524

And I'm pretty sure he's the one

that, cause like somebody told me that

525

was . Cause he told, he told people

that he did, he told people that he

526

did it, but he did that out of spite.

527

I told him, you are the first person,

people that I've told, that have told

528

any of this to, like the whole way.

529

Nobody else, not even the

people I, nobody knows.

530

Nobody knows how it happened,

nobody knows why it happened, I

531

just didn't want to talk about it.

532

K Pocock: Did you just tell anybody that

you killed the dog, but you didn't...

533

Gilleland: I never told

any, I didn't tell anybody.

534

I didn't tell anybody anything.

535

I have had people try to like get me to

say it on like, ask me on the internet.

536

I just, I ignore, I don't talk about it.

537

I've never, I've never talked.

538

This is the first time.

539

Detective: Did you see

the car hit your dog?

540

Gilleland: No, I just heard it.

541

I was turned around.

542

Um, I, I happened by, um, I live.

543

I'm there all the time on . I'm

walking like towards, uh, like

544

towards the bars, like, uh,

545

Detective: Where do you get on the bike?

546

Gilleland: That, that little street.

547

Um, I take it when I, I walk

the dog the same way everywhere.

548

I either, um, I come down where I'm

at, or I walk all the way around.

549

I usually take him like

around the whole entire city.

550

I go through the trail and go up Buchanan

and then come back like a circle.

551

And I'm walking, walking back.

552

Detective: You started to

tell me and I interrupted you,

553

um, where the dog got hit.

554

Gilleland: Um, it's like between, uh,

I was coming around and like, uh, it's,

555

it's the bars, not a little space.

556

Then what's that street, uh, in between

like, uh, where, where's, where,

557

where's the Chunky Dunks place at?

558

Detective: Chunky Dunks?

559

Gilleland: Oh, um, it's, it's, it's

like, it was, it was around that way,

560

K Pocock: Park and Napoleon

561

Gilleland: but it looked like when,

after it happened, she was fine.

562

Like, it looked like

she just shook it off.

563

I'm like, yeah.

564

I'm like, yeah.

565

Somebody was, look, get your

dog, and the car just kept going.

566

. I kept walking her straight and it's like,

I guess it must've been fatigue, but when,

567

when we got, she started walking a little

funny when we even know how you go to

568

Roger Gun, that street, the straight park.

569

Walking her right there and it was fine.

570

. And then I, after she said,

we fine, I got to the trail.

571

Told you I got to the tunnel.

572

Yep.

573

And I kept walking thinking she's

behind me, she's not behind me.

574

I turned around like when I get to the

bend, she's just, That's when I did it.

575

I figured I knew I felt

like it was over with.

576

Detective: Kelly, what kind of

injuries did the dog have then?

577

K Pocock: So the, the blunt force trauma

to the head was the cause of death.

578

Um, there was some bruising,

uh, around the neck area.

579

Um,

580

mostly like right in this area.

581

And then there was, um, multiple

previous fractured ribs.

582

And a little bit of bruising.

583

Um, that was post mortem,

um, on the one hip.

584

Detective: So, the ribs were

old injuries, is that it?

585

K Pocock: Correct.

586

Detective: How long did you have the dog?

587

Gilleland: Um, I got her

when she was 16 weeks.

588

Mm hmm.

589

16, 13 to 16 weeks.

590

Mm hmm.

591

But I'm not there all the time either.

592

Mm hmm.

593

I'm work, I'm in, I'm there

in the morning when I get off.

594

Now that I have a daughter,

I'm there all the time.

595

But I'm not there, I'm

not there all the time.

596

But.

597

Detective: I wonder, do you

know how the dog would, why the

598

dog would have old injuries?

599

To its ribs, or?

600

I'm not there.

601

Yeah, I'm not a vet, so

I, I, I can't tell you.

602

Gilleland: That's, that's, that's what

I thought when I, when I heard that.

603

Cause sometimes I'm like, I'm like,

oh, they're just trying to make

604

it worse to get people to talk.

605

I'm like, I didn't.

606

So that, that's another

thing I was making it worse.

607

Like for me, not to say anything,

but cause I'm like the picture that

608

was painted, I'm just like, Yeah.

609

It looks bad.

610

Detective: It does, it does.

611

Gilleland: So I just like,

I didn't know what to do.

612

Detective: So the injury from the

head, the dog wasn't bleeding.

613

It just was shaking.

614

Gilleland: It was, she was, she was

shaking like had like foam in her mouth.

615

Detective: So then you hit it with a

rock and put it out of this misery.

616

Um, and then just carried

it down into the rocks.

617

Gilleland: I tried, I tried

to tuck her like, uh, not at

618

first, when you, the hill's like

right there, it's all the rocks.

619

And there was like a little space

where like I could try to put her

620

in like I could just lay her there.

621

I put her there and I walked back

up and I just heard it slide down.

622

I was like, uh.

623

So I tried to go back down and I was

getting frustrated because I was sliding,

624

I had sandals on, I was sliding and shit.

625

It was just overwhelming.

626

The whole moment was

just, I was trying to...

627

I was, I was upset about it and I just

kept sliding, she kept sliding, so it

628

just looked like I just left it, but

I just didn't want to, people were

629

coming and I just like, I just left.

630

Detective: Yeah.

631

I don't know.

632

Okay, Kelly, you have any,

everything you're telling me

633

is the truth and we don't have

634

Gilleland: nobody, for anybody to just

call and say that I talked to them or told

635

them, I never talked to anybody about it.

636

I don't want to be in trouble with

the law, I'm in a whole better place

637

than I ever was like with my life.

638

So I just like this, and then my

daughter's coming, I just didn't want

639

to, I wanted to say, Hey, that's my dog.

640

But I just, I seen what I saw and how my

friend's treating me now because he's,

641

he's, he's upset with me because of the

dog situation and the people just, I

642

didn't want my family, my home where I'm

at to be damaged because of what I did.

643

So I just, I tried to just.

644

Hopefully, hey, hopefully

this will blow over.

645

Detective: Keep doing the right thing.

646

I just keep

647

working.

648

You know, your life is

about your daughter.

649

Gilleland: But I don't want

my, I don't want my daughter.

650

I'm mad that that happened.

651

I didn't want that to happen, bro.

652

My daughter was for my baby,

so I don't, I don't know.

653

When I say I've never, you were

the first people I talked to.

654

No one knows that.

655

No one can give you that exact

No one can tell you that.

656

I didn't talk to anybody about it.

657

Detective: Did anybody, was anybody

around when your dog got hit by the car?

658

Gilleland: Nobody.

659

I was, I just turned around for a second.

660

It was me not paying attention

because she's friendly.

661

That's the only problem I have.

662

Detective: What time was this?

663

Gilleland: She's, this is during the day.

664

I want to say like, uh, Not evening,

but 4 or 5 maybe, 4 or 5 evening.

665

I was just winding down.

666

I was sitting in the car.

667

Detective: On the, let's see, the 16th?

668

Gilleland: I don't, I don't remember,

really remember what exactly happened.

669

K Pocock: So where she got hit, you're

talking about where the state street

670

goes like this and the road goes that way

671

Gilleland: Yeah, towards like,

uh, in the area where that, uh,

672

crossing the bars is in the area.

673

K Pocock: The Mexican bar

right there on the corner?

674

Gilleland: Yeah, where

that, those, the older.

675

people stay at the apartments.

676

Yeah.

677

Yeah, it was.

678

It was in that area?

679

Mm-hmm.

680

.

K Pocock: So on that side of State Street or side?

681

Gilleland: The side.

682

The other side.

683

Yeah.

684

Okay.

685

K Pocock: That's a bad intersection.

686

Yeah.

687

Gilleland: I don't know, bro.

688

And it was just, I took her,

I was walking her, she left.

689

She was fine.

690

And then I went to keep watch,

because I always take her on a chair.

691

I take them both.

692

I can't walk him without a leash,

but she can go without a leash.

693

But I'm trying to train her to

walk with me, so I can't take them

694

both, because they'll, they'll play

with each other the whole time,

695

you know they not disciplined.

696

DrG: Listening to the interview,

first he said that somebody

697

hit the dog on the head.

698

Right.

699

And then, right?

700

And then it just makes it sound like,

oh, random person came over and just

701

beat the dog on the head for no reason.

702

And then the investigator says,

so like, it was hit by a car?

703

And he's like, yeah, yeah, That's it.

704

It was hit by a car.

705

So at that point, to me, I was like, okay,

clearly this dog was not hit by a car.

706

When I listened to that, I'm trying

to think of what he's saying.

707

And in contrast with what, like, the

necropsy report is showing to see what

708

kind of, what kind of things, right?

709

And when we see a dog that

has been hit by a car, we are

710

looking for certain injuries.

711

We're looking for fractures.

712

We're looking for scrapes.

713

You know, they, they get pushed,

they get trashed, they get bruised,

714

like their nails get frayed.

715

They're going to have

different types of fractures.

716

All sorts of things that

this dog did not have.

717

So, as you mentioned, there is no

evidence that this dog was hit by a car.

718

The other thing that was interesting

was that first he was with the dog when

719

it was hit on the head, but then he

was talking to somebody, and then that

720

person told him, Hey, your dog is about

to get hit, and then the dog got hit.

721

But at another part, somebody asks him,

So, did anybody else see this happen?

722

And he says, No, I was by myself.

723

Well, which is it?

724

You're by yourself or

you're talking to somebody.

725

Somebody saw it or somebody didn't see it.

726

You saw it or you didn't see it.

727

So, you know, he, he's just trying to,

to create a narrative based on what he

728

thinks you guys want to hear, right?

729

Like he figures you guys

have a story in your mind.

730

So he's going to agree with that

story so that then the end he can go

731

home and everybody forgets about it.

732

Then he starts saying about,

well, the dog got hit in the head.

733

by a car, which we would think it's

going to be a really bad injury.

734

But the dog was fine.

735

The dog was perfectly fine.

736

And it was walking behind

him off leash because he had

737

trained her to go off leash.

738

And then all of a sudden he stops and he

looks back and he doesn't see the dog.

739

So,

740

Kelly Pocock: That was after

walking like over a half a mile,

741

they walked another half a mile

before he said, I turned around and

742

she wasn't following me anymore.

743

So I'm like, that's that's

that doesn't make any sense.

744

Right?

745

Yeah,

746

DrG: because you're, you're going to

think that if you're walking your dog,

747

especially I mean not to pick on pit

bulls because I like pit bulls, but

748

you're walking your pit bull off leash

and you're not paying attention to where

749

it's at, like, you know, it's a dog

that you have to, to keep under control.

750

And definitely you want to

keep at least eyes on it.

751

So he's saying how the dog was

just, you know, disappeared and

752

he didn't notice it for a while.

753

And then all of a sudden he goes

back and then this dog that was

754

fine a little bit ago now is

shaking and laying on the ground and

755

Kelly Pocock: foam coming from the mouth.

756

DrG: Yeah, foam coming from the mouth.

757

Um, and, you know, clearly

it was, it was suffering.

758

So he had to do something.

759

And anybody that has had an animal

that's injured, the first thing that we

760

think is, Oh my God, my dog's injured.

761

I need to take it to the vet.

762

I need to take it to the emergency room.

763

You know, I need to call for help.

764

Even call a family member to

say, Hey, what, what should I do?

765

No, this dude thinks that the best

thing to do is to grab a rock and kill

766

the dog to put it out of its misery.

767

These dogs, their skulls are really hard.

768

Like, the amount of force that you need to

hit a dog on the head, to crack the skull,

769

and get into the brain, that's brutal.

770

That's not just, you know, I, I think

that somebody that really cares about

771

an animal would hesitate and would

not be able to hit a dog that hard.

772

As hard as this person hit this dog.

773

Right.

774

Like, this is definitely somebody

that is being aggressive, somebody

775

that's being violent, somebody

that is angry at this dog.

776

And, and at one point during his

interview, he mentions the fact

777

that the dog chewed on something.

778

So he picked it up and took it for a walk.

779

So, telling us, not telling us,

he basically gave us the reason.

780

It sounds like this dog chewed something,

he got mad, and he took it out.

781

Kelly Pocock: He kind of made

himself sound like the savior.

782

And when he was saying that, like, well,

he chewed up, she chewed up one of the

783

baby toys and everybody was mad at her.

784

So I just wanted to get

her out of the house.

785

So I took her for a walk.

786

So he kind of tried to make himself like

he was the only person that understood

787

this dog and he had to get away from

everybody else because they were upset

788

with the dog and like going back to

the foaming at the mouth, the minute he

789

made that comment, like I've watched and

you've probably seen more so than I, but

790

I've seen numerous dogs have seizures.

791

They don't, you don't normally see

like actual foaming of the mouth.

792

That's something you heard somewhere and

you think it's credible in this situation.

793

That is, that is not something that

you would normally, you might see

794

drooling, but you're not going to see

actual foam, foaming at the mouth.

795

So that was kind of like the,

Oh yeah, that never happened.

796

That was my, my rock solid.

797

And it's in my gut now that that

isn't the dog did not have a seizure.

798

The dog was not hit by a car at that

point when he's, he made that comment.

799

Like I was convinced that

that part never happened.

800

DrG: Yeah, and then he's like saying

about, well, why didn't you call for help?

801

Why didn't you call the police?

802

Well, because he has a bad history with

the police, and we're going to talk

803

about that, talk about that in a second.

804

But, you know, he, he has an excuse for

everything, trying to make it sound like

805

the decision that he made was a kind of

spur of the moment decision, but something

806

that he had to make, do, because the,

the words that he used really bugged me.

807

He said, The dog had sentimental

value and there was nothing there.

808

So when we talk about sentimental

value, what do we think about?

809

We think about objects, right?

810

Like I don't talk about my, my family

members as having sentimental value.

811

Like I love my family members.

812

Uh, my pets, I love my pets.

813

They don't have sentimental value.

814

Like I am attached,

emotionally attached to them.

815

We have sentimental value against objects.

816

Like a picture has sentimental value.

817

So it was clear that he was trying to

sound like he cared about this dog.

818

He was trying to sound emotional

about this dog, but he had

819

no emotion for this dog.

820

And the best that he could come

up with was to use the word

821

sentimental value, which is a

measurement of an object, right?

822

So all of those things from this

interrogation, it just shows how he

823

just changes the words, even when,

when he talks about the rock, he says,

824

yeah, I grabbed the thing and hit it.

825

And then the investigator

says like the rock, he's like,

826

yeah, yeah, yeah, the rock.

827

So he's, he's painting a story as

he's going along based on what he

828

feels that, that people want to hear.

829

So listening to that, to that interview

was very enlightening because it

830

really gave me, uh, an insight on

what You know, kind of what was likely

831

what happened in this case and the

fact that what this guy was saying

832

was not, you know, was not true.

833

But then also my part in the

investigation was to see if the crime

834

scene matched his story because maybe

I look at the crime scene and it does

835

match his story and then, you know,

he's just bad at telling his story.

836

So while you were interviewing him,

there was, there was something that was

837

noticeable to you the way that he spoke

that gave you an idea of if he was telling

838

the truth or if he was not being truthful.

839

So can you describe that a bit?

840

Kelly Pocock: He was very like the

standard like eye contact and you like if

841

his and then if he told when we would get

to the point he's like, yes, I did it.

842

It's my dog.

843

We went for this walk.

844

And he kind of like he's sitting up.

845

He's sitting straight erect.

846

Um, good posture.

847

He's looking at us.

848

He's putting his hands down like in

adamant that this is what happened.

849

Until you get to the point where he

tells you that the dog was hit by a

850

car, the shoulders come forward, the

chest concaves, he's not looking at us

851

anymore, his arms are now on his lap,

his hands are on his lap, there's no,

852

like I speak with my hands quite a bit,

but like he had stopped doing that.

853

His hands went into his

lap just for that segment.

854

And I noticed it immediately.

855

But then the minute we got past the

hit by a car, he came back erect.

856

He was not concave.

857

His shoulders were back.

858

He was adamant.

859

He was speaking with his hands again.

860

And I went noted, like that was huge.

861

So that was like my first clue.

862

Cause initially it's kind of like.

863

Oh, well, I mean, you probably could have

found a more humane way to end the dog's

864

suffering than to make it suffer further.

865

But if it truly got hit by

a car, I can understand if

866

you're backed into the corner.

867

Like, we can try, we can try,

we have to try really hard,

868

but we can try to get there.

869

We can try to get to that mentality where

I have to make my dog stop suffering.

870

I have to end this right now.

871

But immediately with his body posture,

I never, because it was the very initial

872

conversation that we had with him.

873

I never believed the dog ever got hit by a

car because of the way his posture changed

874

during us speaking to him in that point.

875

It was so different.

876

It was almost like speaking

to two different people.

877

The way he was before and after

and the way he was during talking

878

about the dog getting hit by a car.

879

DrG: So when he was saying

things that were likely truthful,

880

he was up and confident.

881

Yes.

882

And then when he was saying things

that he was not confident about,

883

he was showing it with his body.

884

Kelly Pocock: Yep.

885

There was submission, the shoulders

forward, like protecting the core.

886

Yeah.

887

It was, it was textbook.

888

I mean, along with the no eye contact,

we lost eye contact during that bit, like

889

that textbook, he's lying thing that you

get, but there was a drastic change in

890

his body language just during that part.

891

Um, and the investigator, who obviously

has way more experience than I do,

892

even remarked on that once he left

the room, you know, and we were back

893

in the vehicle leaving that facility,

the investigator even remarked on

894

that, that's the only part of the

story that I'm not 100 percent on.

895

I think he's telling the

truth about the rest.

896

And I said, there's no way

he's telling the truth about

897

the dog getting hit by a car.

898

Like, I noticed that there

was a huge difference.

899

And he said, you noticed that?

900

And I said, yeah, yeah, I did.

901

DrG: We mentioned about the fact that he

had bad run ins with the police and that

902

is an understatement to say the least.

903

So, uh, what are the, what

are these runnings that he

904

had with the police before?

905

Kelly Pocock: So he had previously, um,

had felony aggravated assault charges

906

placed against him and convicted of them.

907

Um, he did do prison time.

908

I don't recall the amount of

time he actually did in prison.

909

Seven years.

910

Seven, yeah.

911

So he, it was, it was quite extensive.

912

Um, he does not, he doesn't,

like, he really does not want

913

to speak with law enforcement.

914

When we did the interview with him, we

kind of went to his work and asked his

915

boss to bring him in to speak with us.

916

So we kind of cornered him, um,

but we also knew, like, that

917

would be the only way that he was

actually going to speak with us.

918

So, um, while I do believe, like, he

was going to work every day, he was

919

trying to, like, do better things

with his life, I don't think that

920

that violent streak went out of him.

921

I think it just got shifted to

different areas of his life.

922

So he was, you know, he's

got, he's got a new family.

923

He's trying to make sure he goes

to work every single day and great.

924

That's awesome.

925

But we still have this violence

taking place in your life.

926

It's just maybe not at this point

towards humans because you've

927

already been in trouble for that.

928

DrG: And I think that that's one of the,

that's one of the big issues that, that

929

myself and a, and a lot of people that

have with, with the way that the, uh,

930

prison system is, is that this individual

is kind of warehoused for seven years,

931

for a period of time to pay for a crime

that he committed, which, yes, he needs

932

to serve time for the crime that he

committed, but there needs to be some

933

form of rehabilitation because if not,

we're just in jail for seven years.

934

Um, you know, figuring out how to get

stronger and how to, how to not get caught

935

instead of actually working on these

clear anger management type issues that

936

he has because if he, you know, he went

to prison for assault and then now here

937

he is, he's assaulting a dog, clearly

he has a, a difficult way of expressing

938

his anger in a very negative way.

939

So, yeah, you know, that, that

basically, again, as part of the link,

940

people that are, that are going to

commit abusive actions against humans

941

are likely to commit abusive actions

against animals and vice versa.

942

So, identifying these, these cases of

animal cruelty and animal abuse are very

943

important in protecting animals, but then

also protecting community in general.

944

Kelly Pocock: And we got kind of feedback

on all of these other things, and that's

945

when we contacted the prosecutor's office,

and was like, I think that we definitely

946

have enough to do felony animal cruelty

charges, and we want to move forward

947

with this, Um, let's go into the next

phase of getting the arrest warrant.

948

I think his, the arrest

warrant went out on a Tuesday.

949

He was arrested on Friday,

arraigned on a Monday.

950

So he did spend those two

days in jail over the weekend.

951

Um, and then we go through the

long process of the court hearings.

952

Which this one actually moved along

quite quickly compared to some of them.

953

I've been involved in.

954

DrG: She went to the Ohio State

University College of Veterinary

955

Medicine to have the necropsy done.

956

by a, by a pathologist and from, from

what they found, I'm going to, uh, go

957

over their comments and interpretations.

958

So she had multiple fractures to the

frontal bone that, uh, that were focal.

959

So basically, uh, small holes that

were formed on the top of the head.

960

And then the other thing that

they found was a fracture of her

961

jaw on both sides of her jaw.

962

And this is going to be important

by the time we're looking at

963

the blood spatter evidence.

964

So, the, the interpretation from the

pathologist was that the lesions of the

965

bones and soft tissues of the head and

face are consistent with blunt force

966

trauma and are the likely cause of death.

967

The primary lesion is a large comminuted

fracture of the frontal bone with

968

extensive bleeding into the surrounding

soft tissues, subdural space and brain.

969

And there are several areas of

subcutaneous hemorrhage and edema

970

in the prescapular and pelvic

regions, which may be consistent

971

with antemortem soft tissue injury.

972

She also had multiple nodules on

the ribs that are consistent with

973

healing bone from previous fractures.

974

That's also something that's super

important, because that tells us

975

that this is not the first time that

this dog has been victim of violence.

976

Right, like this tells us that this

dog likely has been kicked, punched,

977

hit in some way or another in the

chest, and she had These fractures

978

on both sides, so most likely she

had been attacked multiple times.

979

Going back to the, to the blood spatter.

980

So, you know, it, the, the idea

of blood spatter is not a perfect

981

science and you can't always say

what happened or what didn't happen.

982

You sometimes can get an idea of

things that likely happen, where the

983

blood's coming from, how many strikes

something has received and, and such.

984

This is a case where, to me, the

blood spatter said so much, right?

985

So looking at, at all of that blood

spatter evidence, all those pictures

986

that you sent me, it literally painted

a picture, and it was a really horrific

987

picture because we could see Two

large, um, streaks of blood that were

988

consistent with the two holes that

were on top of the head of the dog.

989

So we know that, yes, this dog was

hit at least twice in the head.

990

Cause the first time that you

hit something, you don't really

991

create a spatter from it, right?

992

You have to hit blood to splash blood.

993

So we know that there was at least

twice that, or at least three times

994

that he, that this dog was hit in

the head, but the one thing that

995

painted the picture is the fact that

there's a puddle of blood, um, running on

996

the ground, but then there is spatter that

is consisting with spitting out blood,

997

like, high velocity from the ground.

998

And we can say that getting hit

in the head was the, was brutal.

999

The most brutal part of this is that

the blood evidence shows that after

00:47:00,737 --> 00:47:03,397

he hit this dog, and this dog is

00:47:03,782 --> 00:47:09,302

laying on the ground, probably agonal,

that he stomped on the head of this dog,

00:47:09,312 --> 00:47:14,162

on the face of this dog, hard enough that

he broke the jaw of the dog on both sides.

00:47:14,552 --> 00:47:17,122

And that's where that blood

spatter is coming out.

00:47:17,662 --> 00:47:22,412

And then what tells us further that

this is what happens is that there

00:47:22,412 --> 00:47:28,372

are no large blood pools anywhere,

but close to where the blood is, there

00:47:28,372 --> 00:47:31,242

is one single footprint in blood.

00:47:32,112 --> 00:47:35,842

And the only way that that really

could have come about is from him

00:47:35,842 --> 00:47:40,332

putting his foot on something that

was covered with blood, which,

00:47:40,342 --> 00:47:44,422

based on everything that was found,

the dog's head was covered in blood.

00:47:44,942 --> 00:47:50,512

So it again shows that he stepped on

this dog's face as hard as he could

00:47:50,652 --> 00:47:55,452

hard enough to break the jaw of a pit

bull, I mean, a very powerful jaw.

00:47:56,102 --> 00:48:00,862

And then he put his foot down and

left that single footprint that

00:48:00,862 --> 00:48:03,442

tells us the story of what happened.

00:48:04,062 --> 00:48:07,732

Then we can follow the blood

trail, the two blood trails from

00:48:07,742 --> 00:48:09,652

the two holes on the, on the head.

00:48:10,272 --> 00:48:14,192

And it's clear that he threw

this dog onto the rocks.

00:48:14,822 --> 00:48:18,512

And at that point, where the

dog was laying, the heart

00:48:18,532 --> 00:48:19,742

must have still been beating.

00:48:19,892 --> 00:48:23,492

Because there was a large

amount of blood in that area.

00:48:24,002 --> 00:48:30,217

And clearly it was, and I think he even

makes, makes mention of it, that Well, he

00:48:30,217 --> 00:48:35,367

says that the dog fell, like it slipped

as he was trying to place it further down.

00:48:36,017 --> 00:48:39,777

The evidence looks more like he

threw the dog and it just didn't land

00:48:39,777 --> 00:48:42,017

far enough to be out of eyesight.

00:48:42,687 --> 00:48:47,707

So, he's doing all of this to a dog that

we're hoping is unconscious at this point,

00:48:47,747 --> 00:48:52,957

that it doesn't feel anything, but a dog

who's heart was and then he picks up the

00:48:52,957 --> 00:48:58,447

dog and sends it further down into the

into the rocks Basically to try to keep it

00:48:58,447 --> 00:49:02,327

from people seeing and it almost worked if

it wasn't for all the blood pooling that

00:49:02,327 --> 00:49:07,287

he did, like you said like it was hard to

see the dog So if that all of that blood

00:49:07,287 --> 00:49:11,667

evidence had not been there Who knows how

long it would have been before somebody

00:49:11,667 --> 00:49:15,557

would have noticed that the dog was was

there You know days weeks could have

00:49:15,557 --> 00:49:19,602

passed and then a lot of this evidence

could have been, could have been damaged.

00:49:20,782 --> 00:49:23,522

So,, he gets picked up on his warrant.

00:49:24,107 --> 00:49:26,597

And then he goes to the arraignment.

00:49:27,304 --> 00:49:29,254

Judge: It appears in court in orange.

00:49:29,804 --> 00:49:30,114

Mr.

00:49:30,114 --> 00:49:32,334

Gilleland, is English

your native language?

00:49:32,394 --> 00:49:32,814

Gilleland: Yes.

00:49:32,854 --> 00:49:34,154

Judge: You read and write

the English language?

00:49:34,154 --> 00:49:34,454

Gilleland: Yes.

00:49:34,854 --> 00:49:37,164

Judge: Have you ever been

declared incompetent by a court?

00:49:37,234 --> 00:49:37,504

Gilleland: No.

00:49:37,854 --> 00:49:40,024

Judge: Have you had any recent

injuries to your head or your body?

00:49:40,094 --> 00:49:40,424

Gilleland: No.

00:49:41,594 --> 00:49:42,514

Judge: You're in orange.

00:49:42,534 --> 00:49:43,584

How long have you been in jail?

00:49:44,024 --> 00:49:44,654

Gilleland: Since Friday.

00:49:45,394 --> 00:49:45,824

Judge: Okay.

00:49:45,924 --> 00:49:48,634

So over the weekend, three days?

00:49:48,684 --> 00:49:53,914

So you're aware, you have, from the time

that you get a copy, you get served a copy

00:49:53,914 --> 00:49:58,174

of that, you have 24 hours until you have

to appear in court for your arraignment.

00:49:58,434 --> 00:49:59,954

We can come back tomorrow.

00:50:01,039 --> 00:50:05,139

945 so that you have that 24

hour notice or we can continue

00:50:05,139 --> 00:50:06,129

today with your arraignment.

00:50:06,189 --> 00:50:06,839

That's up to you.

00:50:06,969 --> 00:50:07,239

Gilleland: Continue.

00:50:07,959 --> 00:50:10,909

Judge: The arraignment will continue

based on the waiver of any defects

00:50:10,909 --> 00:50:14,639

in service by the defendant and

we now have service complete.

00:50:15,384 --> 00:50:20,204

By indictment, a file stamped October 6th,

00:50:20,204 --> 00:50:21,634

Leshawn Gilleland.

00:50:21,974 --> 00:50:24,209

Count 1, the jurors of the defendant,

jury of the State of Ohio, defendant

00:50:24,209 --> 00:50:26,604

for the body of Sandusky County on the

rose, and named by the authority of the

00:50:26,604 --> 00:50:30,374

State of Ohio, divinely present, Leshawn

Gilleland owner by the 16th day of

00:50:30,374 --> 00:50:34,924

a force that did not only cause serious

00:50:34,964 --> 00:50:36,604

physical harm to a companion animal.

00:50:36,924 --> 00:50:40,134

To wit, defendant did not only cause

serious physical harm to an American

00:50:40,134 --> 00:50:44,529

Pit Bull, dog resulting in the death

of the animal in violation of a higher

00:50:44,529 --> 00:50:51,569

00:50:51,819 --> 00:50:55,439

Cruelty to companion animals,

a felony of the fifth degree.

00:50:55,439 --> 00:50:59,899

Penalty, a term of imprisonment of 6

to 12 months and up to a 2, 500 fine.

00:51:00,189 --> 00:51:02,309

Do you understand the single

count of the indictment, Mr.

00:51:02,309 --> 00:51:02,819

Gilliland?

00:51:02,839 --> 00:51:03,249

Gilleland: Yes.

00:51:04,419 --> 00:51:05,409

Judge: Court order not guilty.

00:51:05,439 --> 00:51:06,779

Please assign the matter for trial.

00:51:06,779 --> 00:51:08,259

Bound to be set by separate entry.

00:51:08,259 --> 00:51:09,909

What are you going to do

about a lawyer for this, Mr.

00:51:09,909 --> 00:51:10,439

Gilleland?

00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:15,180

Gilleland: Um, lawyer, I already

admitted there's no point of, I already

00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:16,460

told her what happened, but I did it.

00:51:16,460 --> 00:51:18,960

I'm trying to figure out what

the, that's why I'm confused.

00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,600

Like, what do I need to, you know,

I already said I'm already guilty.

00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,050

I already said I did it

and why I'm confused.

00:51:24,070 --> 00:51:25,450

I'm just confused by the whole thing.

00:51:25,550 --> 00:51:25,860

Judge: Okay.

00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,770

And you've, you've been served

with a felony indictment and

00:51:29,770 --> 00:51:31,410

you are entitled to counsel.

00:51:31,510 --> 00:51:34,320

My question to you is what are

you going to do about an attorney?

00:51:34,380 --> 00:51:34,790

Gilleland: I don't want one.

00:51:35,330 --> 00:51:36,390

It's going to be over with bro.

00:51:37,565 --> 00:51:38,575

Judge: Okay, I'm not your bro.

00:51:38,595 --> 00:51:40,205

Don't address me as such.

00:51:40,585 --> 00:51:42,875

But you, you're waiving counsel?

00:51:43,145 --> 00:51:43,985

Gilleland: For what?

00:51:44,185 --> 00:51:45,075

I'm already guilty.

00:51:45,095 --> 00:51:46,235

I've already admitted to it.

00:51:46,305 --> 00:51:47,385

There's nothing I don't understand.

00:51:47,385 --> 00:51:48,455

I don't understand none of this.

00:51:48,605 --> 00:51:49,355

Judge: Mr.

00:51:49,865 --> 00:51:52,870

Gilleland, I'm going to give

you this one advisement.

00:51:52,940 --> 00:51:54,900

I'm going to call it a piece of advice.

00:51:55,230 --> 00:51:58,870

I'm not sure what your attitude

is or why you are presenting

00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:00,770

in this manner in my courtroom.

00:52:01,455 --> 00:52:03,795

Kelly Pocock: So at the

arraignment, the judge released

00:52:03,795 --> 00:52:04,965

him on his own recognizance.

00:52:05,765 --> 00:52:11,175

he gave him like strict alcohol drug

free, stay, obviously stay in this area.

00:52:11,175 --> 00:52:12,105

Don't take off.

00:52:12,585 --> 00:52:16,895

We did discuss, that there was another dog

in the home that he was currently living

00:52:16,895 --> 00:52:23,735

in They were not willing to remove that

dog because that dog did not technically

00:52:23,735 --> 00:52:27,025

belong to him, although he said that he

was the only one that could handle it.

00:52:27,850 --> 00:52:32,023

They could not take the dog away

from the actual owner of the dog.

00:52:32,023 --> 00:52:33,253

So the dog was allowed to stay.

00:52:33,253 --> 00:52:35,693

He just was required to be supervised.

00:52:35,693 --> 00:52:37,393

He was never allowed to

be alone with the dog.

00:52:38,353 --> 00:52:44,163

So those were really like the, he ended

up, um, I think he tested positive for

00:52:44,163 --> 00:52:49,353

marijuana at one of the check ins with

his probation officer and they gave him

00:52:49,723 --> 00:52:54,143

like another warning, we don't want to see

this again, and I think after that, all of

00:52:54,143 --> 00:52:57,293

his, all of his drug testing was negative.

00:52:57,943 --> 00:53:03,253

Um, but the, the released on his

own recognizance, and then just

00:53:03,253 --> 00:53:07,953

those, those simple few things is

what happened at the arraignment.

00:53:08,686 --> 00:53:13,346

DrG: And he, from the get go, when he got

there, he immediately said, I'm guilty.

00:53:13,346 --> 00:53:13,886

I did it.

00:53:13,906 --> 00:53:14,856

Let's get this on.

00:53:15,206 --> 00:53:19,556

Kelly Pocock: He was, he was very upset

the minute he saw me, because there

00:53:19,556 --> 00:53:24,656

was a special family thing that had

happened that weekend and he missed it.

00:53:25,156 --> 00:53:28,976

So he, he looked right at

me, told me he would never

00:53:28,976 --> 00:53:30,726

forgive me that he missed that.

00:53:31,186 --> 00:53:32,616

Um, okay.

00:53:33,071 --> 00:53:36,621

But when, like, they come out, like,

the arraignment is not the time where

00:53:36,621 --> 00:53:40,631

you, you know, it's the time where

you give your plea, it's not the

00:53:40,631 --> 00:53:42,981

time where you confess your sins.

00:53:43,471 --> 00:53:49,241

And he instantly, um, with kind of

very, like, I don't want to say, like,

00:53:49,271 --> 00:53:53,611

attitude y, like, um, the court had

to remind him to choose his words

00:53:53,621 --> 00:53:56,001

wisely in how he addressed the court.

00:53:56,391 --> 00:54:03,051

The court had to remind him to, um,

kind of calm down and follow the rules.

00:54:03,481 --> 00:54:04,571

But, it was.

00:54:05,276 --> 00:54:05,766

I did it.

00:54:05,766 --> 00:54:07,116

I already told her I did it, bro.

00:54:07,116 --> 00:54:08,186

I don't know why I'm here.

00:54:08,206 --> 00:54:09,316

I already told her I did it.

00:54:09,896 --> 00:54:12,616

So, you know, that's when the

judge, like, the judge said,

00:54:12,616 --> 00:54:13,856

you will not refer to the court.

00:54:13,866 --> 00:54:15,306

You will not refer to the judge as bro.

00:54:15,306 --> 00:54:15,906

You will not.

00:54:16,506 --> 00:54:19,036

But I truly believe he didn't understand.

00:54:19,046 --> 00:54:23,156

Like, he, he really thought that, well,

I gave them the excuse that I ended the

00:54:23,156 --> 00:54:27,836

dog's life for its own good, um, because

it was suffering and I admitted to it.

00:54:27,846 --> 00:54:29,026

So why am I here?

00:54:29,716 --> 00:54:32,306

So there was kind of like a

disconnect there for him, like

00:54:32,306 --> 00:54:36,176

not realizing that what you did is

truly illegal, regardless of why.

00:54:36,845 --> 00:54:40,505

But he, yeah, he can, he was

confessing all of his sins.

00:54:40,505 --> 00:54:42,645

He was highly upset at

that first arraignment.

00:54:43,095 --> 00:54:47,925

Um, he did calm down in the following

court proceedings that we were, had

00:54:47,925 --> 00:54:51,745

scheduled, but that, that initial

court hearing, he was, he was highly

00:54:51,745 --> 00:54:57,665

upset, irritated, um, you know, kind

of that, that slang terms that he was

00:54:57,665 --> 00:54:59,845

using in the agitated voice and stuff.

00:54:59,845 --> 00:55:02,045

And, you know, the judge

had to remind him like.

00:55:02,375 --> 00:55:03,275

You need to sit down.

00:55:03,275 --> 00:55:04,185

You need to calm down.

00:55:04,185 --> 00:55:05,815

You don't address the

court in that manner.

00:55:06,515 --> 00:55:08,425

Um, so, I mean, it was.

00:55:09,116 --> 00:55:13,806

I guess I had never personally seen

such disregard, disregard for a court.

00:55:13,836 --> 00:55:17,716

I'm sure other courts see it every single

day, but I had never personally seen that.

00:55:17,716 --> 00:55:20,566

So I was kind of taken

aback by that behavior.

00:55:21,096 --> 00:55:24,076

Um, but then, you know, it

just, it goes on to pre trial,

00:55:24,076 --> 00:55:25,656

pre trial and all of that.

00:55:26,366 --> 00:55:29,566

DrG: And, and part of it may be just

the fact that he didn't realize that

00:55:29,606 --> 00:55:33,956

at that point, you have put together

a picture of what actually happened.

00:55:34,466 --> 00:55:38,536

And he's thinking, you know, well,

I'm here because I killed my dog.

00:55:38,546 --> 00:55:41,086

Well, I killed my dog to

put it out of its misery.

00:55:41,116 --> 00:55:44,236

And he doesn't understand, no, you're

here because you brutally murder

00:55:44,236 --> 00:55:46,276

your dog and we know what you did.

00:55:47,046 --> 00:55:50,506

So he, he goes through his arraignment.

00:55:50,566 --> 00:55:56,416

He, um, he says that he did it, but

then he actually has his pretrial date

00:55:56,476 --> 00:55:59,116

in which he came in and he pled guilty.

00:55:59,756 --> 00:55:59,906

Okay.

00:55:59,911 --> 00:56:03,896

Right to criminal, animal cruelty,

uh, which is a felony under

00:56:03,896 --> 00:56:07,316

959.131 of the Ohio revised code.

00:56:07,986 --> 00:56:12,416

So something kind of cool happen

and it's that they asked for,

00:56:12,606 --> 00:56:14,756

for a victim impact statement.

00:56:15,416 --> 00:56:20,281

Kelly Pocock: Well, I was, I was actually

kind of surprised because that has

00:56:20,281 --> 00:56:22,451

never ever been requested of us before.

00:56:22,451 --> 00:56:26,991

and not ever anywhere else that I've

heard of, like they always, dogs are

00:56:26,991 --> 00:56:28,921

considered property in the state of Ohio.

00:56:28,921 --> 00:56:31,571

So how can property be a victim?

00:56:31,921 --> 00:56:34,301

Property can be damaged,

but it can't be a victim.

00:56:34,301 --> 00:56:39,261

So I was kind of like, they want a victim

impact statement on behalf of the dog?

00:56:39,731 --> 00:56:42,881

And the prosecutor was

like, yes, can you get that?

00:56:42,881 --> 00:56:46,261

And I was like, yeah, I know exactly

who to ask to write that because she

00:56:46,261 --> 00:56:52,031

would be able to speak from every aspect

and cover every, every part of what we

00:56:52,051 --> 00:56:56,211

would need to be covered to make sure

that it is the absolute best that we,

00:56:56,341 --> 00:57:00,631

you know, we can submit to the court,

especially, you know, we might be setting

00:57:00,631 --> 00:57:05,811

precedence on victim impact statements

being part of these animal cruelty

00:57:05,811 --> 00:57:07,501

cases, especially the felony ones.

00:57:08,061 --> 00:57:14,011

So, I was surprised, but I was, I was

excited about having that opportunity.

00:57:14,753 --> 00:57:18,213

DrG: Yeah, when you asked me to, to

help write this victim impact statement,