The third phase of The Heroine’s Journey is the Emergence. In the stillness that follows death, something begins to stir. New like awakens and new possibilities begin to form.

In this episode, Christine speaks with Sofia Rasini, co-founder of the adventure therapy non-profit Campo Base. Sofia talks about her journey into motherhood and the unexpected grief she encountered, in addition to the joy. She also shares what her experiences running camps for children with serious illnesses has taught her; and how stewarding the intention of the land & castle that she calls home in northern Italy, alongside the women in her family, supported her own rebirth.

Resources

• Campo Base – Adventure therapy
• Castel Campo

I'm Christine Raine.

Welcome to the Heroine's Journey podcast, where we understand our personal stories of change with insight, compassion, and inspiration.

The third phase is characterized by emergence in the stillness that follows death.

We hear a call and something begins to stir/ new life awakens.

Often in unexpected places, new connections to people, practices and possibilities begin to form.

We learn to ask and receive support, expanding our capacity to be.

New ways of understanding.

The world takes shape.

We are tender, visited, alternately by curiosity, fear, quiet hope.

And in this space where we once wielded control and action, we find ourselves being more and doing less.

It's not always easy and it may not be comfortable, but like the breath that animates our bodies without our direction, we are being reassembled.

It feels so incredible to give welcome to my soul sister Sofia Rasini.

Sofia has worked in Europe, Africa, south Asia, and Latin America with various non-profits dedicated to youth development.

After various years working with Serious Fun summer camps, Sofia and her family decided to use their historic home and farm as a base for the nonprofit they co founded and named Associazione Campobase, forgive my Italian, which in English translates to Base Camp, a project I deeply admire and that welcomes children and young people affected by cancer, blood diseases, and rare conditions to this beautiful land and medieval castle to experience fantasy, imagination, and adventure therapy programs.

All of it happens thanks to the efforts of her sisters, mother, stepfather, and an incredible network of volunteers.

Sophia holds a master's degree in Medical Anthropology from the School of Oriental and African Studies in London, also known as SOAS.

I will always be indebted to this university, not only because I too studied there and had the most incredible academic experience, but more importantly because it's where I met Soph.

And I have to say, since the moment we connected, something strange happened between us.

We were in a very small program and felt immediately compelled by each other.

And although we don't look that much alike, at first our classmates and teacher got us confused.

Later, when we became friends, we would learn that our life paths were full of synchronicities.

We had both gone to New York University at the same time and had lived and worked in India after graduating, and now six years later, we were part of this 20 person multicultural program in the UK.

We were also both non identical twins.

Born in the same year and we're both bicultural, which is like having a foot in two worlds.

We also both ended up marrying Sebastians.

In other words, it felt like the universe had been planning this encounter for years.

And although I could keep going, this show is about her journey.

So let me officially welcome you, my love, and thank you for accepting this invitation.

Thank you so much for inviting me into this conversation.

What an honor.

What was, What was going to SOAS like?

I, I was so, uh, excited to go to school every day/ and to be in a classroom with people that, um, were bringing their own experiences, their own thoughts, their own cultural backgrounds, um, into these big, big questions about death and dying, about risk and responsibility, about, um, socially constructed pain, about illness and metaphor and, and, you know, it's just, it was an endless, endless, wow of, interesting, things to think about,

It really was.

And we, we had a most incredible teacher as our leader, the leader of discussion and wow.

She just had this capacity to hold complexity and, and incredible conversations, and I remember that for each class, they would give us the option of reading.

Like from 15 different articles on that topic.

For example, risk and responsibility or, uh, illness as narrative.

You could choose from 15 different things.

So people would come into the class and it could be that no one read the same thing.

And so I remember in my absolute ignorance and arrogance suggesting to her one day, you know, I think it might be a good idea for you to ask us to read at least one article, all of us, the same one so that we can comment it.

Now, I like look back at that moment and cringe because I can see completely why she said absolutely not.

And, and at the time I didn't understand, you know?

She was so patient with us.

Yeah.

I think that was the biggest gift of that year was just teaching us, um, how to think about the reality differently.

How to think about the body in other ways, how to think about questions of identity as they relate to health and healthcare, in, in ways that we're not used to thinking about, you know?

And it was, it really, it informed and continues to inform, um, a lot of the work that we do with Campo that I do personally with Campo Base.

What happens normally is we partner with other healthcare organizations to create a residential programs for people affected by serious illness.

So they might be, uh, summer programs for families of children with a chronic condition or, um, retreats for young adults with cancer or blood diseases or for other disorders.

And, and I think what, what medical anthropology taught me is to value for one, value lived experience above a physical reaction, um, a physical experience, a, a biomedical explanation rather.

I think it taught me that illness is a shared reality it's also, a reflection of, uh, cultural values, of choices of the society we live in, um, and the beliefs that we grow up with.

I think what's wonderful about going to camp is that you're leaving the, the hospital or the, the place of, of care, which can be quite sterile, can be quite, um, focused on numbers and results and, and avoiding, what sometimes is inevitable.

So pain and suffering and, and, um, when you leave that behind and join other people who may be experiencing something similar, it's an opportunity to really let the windows open and let the storm come in and see what happens, you know?

And do you remember my reaction when you first told me that you worked with children with terminal illnesses?

I would never be able to do That sounds horrible.

Like, I was just.

And you said to me something I will never forget, and that became central to my life as soon as I got diagnosed with a serious illness, which is that illness often brings out the best in people, and that you feel it's an honor to accompany and witness children and their families go through these difficult moments that bring them together and bring out the best in them.

And of course that's not the case for everyone, but it, it really made me curious about you and your perspective on life and death and well, that would be something that we would talk a a lot about in upcoming years.

But I wanted to ask you, speaking, speaking of death, you know, the starting point of the third phase of the heroines journey is a symbolic death.

It's a death of a part of ourselves or the stories that we told ourselves about the world, about us, about other people.

I'm wondering.

Sofe if you've personally experienced any moment of life that resembles a symbolic death?

The answer to that question is so clear to me, even though it's hard to express it in this way, but for me, um, having my daughter was absolutely, um, a moment where I felt absolutely a moment of symbolic death.

Um, I didn't realize it at the time and I didn't, it took, it took another child for me to realize that that's, um, what I was feeling.

I was feeling a sense of loss of identity and a sense of mourning.

Mourning for the person that I was before I had children.

But there was absolutely just a before and after I had kids.

And the experience of it was, uh, as much as I was excited and, and, um, in love with this child who had just come into my life, I also, um, was feeling completely, was feeling very isolated and angry a lot.

Um, angry at my partner for, I don't know, for not washing up or something like

Forgetting to keep his old life and also have a child.

yeah, for being able to take a shower when he wanted you know, and then asked as a result, you know, then noticing how all men kind of are able to take a shower when to.

And so then there was anger at kind of the world and the, this patriarchal society that was just became so glaringly apparent to me.

And, and how as a society we, we don't have the language to value the work that mothers do or to value the difficulties that new parents might be going through, um, and to, and to offer support because, um, it's hard to express what you're feeling when you first have a child.

I was, I was exhausted, so I was, I was so tired.

I wasn't even recognizing who I was.

I was, I was spinning out about a lot of things, I think.

But I was also trying to accommodate for this new being in my life.

Is physically challenging.

Um, you know, the birth was quite, was, was quite traumatic in that way.

It was, um, it was a shock, a physical shock to my system, and then an emotional, um, shock followed that.

So it was a lot to live with.

But then when someone asked you how was your day, which would be the right way to approach it?

It was, you know, there weren't any, there weren't words that were able to express the, the success of having been able to, um, go to the bathroom by myself or, or change a diaper in a public place, you know, I mean, it's kind of, you don't feel able to relate to the world that is outside of, of, of your home at that point.

I can imagine that losing that part of yourself and your identity was extremely confusing and chaotic and hard.

And I'm wondering what, what were the feelings that were most present in that moment, and what do you think your emotional needs were at the time?

Well, I, I didn't express this to anyone including you because I didn't know that that was what was happening.

It was after my second baby, which was, she was born in January of 2020.

So three months after she was born, at some point during the, one of the lockdowns, um, I took a class, an online class on grief.

And it was during one of the practical exercises that I realized that that's what I was feeling.

That that was this, this sense of loss was, was what was happening to me and this and that time.

And I didn't, before that moment, I did not have that vocabulary, and I did not, I couldn't have associated that feeling with, um, this incredible and miraculous experience of having given birth to two kids.

Cuz no part of you wants to admit that that's also alive in you because it is incredible and it is the ultimate responsibility to be able to care for, a small child that, um, is yours, you know?

But, at the same time, I had not let go of the person that came before.

And I had not closed that chapter.

I had not said goodbye to whatever freedom I thought I had then that I was, felt that I was lacking after having children.

And, and when I did, everything changed.

Everything changed.

I started to revel in this like world of, of caring and, and, um, take pride in the domestic and, and in all the little things that, make it such an adventure.

And it's hard because you have to also give up wanting to, get someone else's recognition for what you're doing, you know?

You have to accept that you're alone.

I mean, you're connected to every single other woman on the planet.

In fact, every person that was ever born from another person.

But you're alone in the journey in the sense that you have to congratulate yourself on, you know, whatever nutritious meal you were able to have your, your, your kids eat up that day, you know.

So do you think grief and realizing that you needed to mourn and grieve the lost parts of yourself was what made you able to kind of move out of that space?

Yeah, I think it was, I think once I named it, um, once I understood that that was what I was feeling and was able to let go of this illusion that I needed to have control over my life, I, I just, I, I was open to the, the madness of it.

The uncertainty and the, the things that were scaring me before that now I was able to be brave about and, and take on.

And, and just live more fully, be more present rather than trying to project myself into into a, an illusion of, um, a person that was not real, a person that had more freedom, or a person that had more success at her job, or a person that could do it all, once I realized I couldn't, it felt wonderful.

Oh my God.

like we can't do it all, and that's okay.

What happened was I, my world became smaller and I grew bigger in this small world, and then suddenly I felt like I had a place, you know, and I was in the right place and everything that I had done to get there was to serve that purpose.

But then you became larger and all of a sudden you belonged.

In this world, and not only you belonged, but it was beautiful.

It opened you up to all this newness and sense of possibility.

When you were in that moment of just darkness and chaos and confusion, what do you think your needs were?

I think one of the things that I, uh, didn't realize was what I wanted, but was a, a shared reality with my partner, my husband.

I think moving from being in a romantic relationship to parenting together is an incredibly challenging transition.

I think most, most couples will, will tell you that.

But, what I was yearning for, my husband was so generous.

He was so kind and offering his, his support.

He would ask me over and over how I was and how was my day, and he would offer to find a babysitter, to get help for the house.

And, and I realized that every time he would offer something like that, I would get more and more frustrated.

Until I said I just, I realized that what I needed from him was to just participate, just be present in the way that I was.

Because it was really hard to look at the situation and see the same thing if he wasn't experiencing the same challenges as I was.

And not that I wanted him to feel the, you know, the loneliness and, the physical pain.

But, but yeah, maybe, maybe I did a little bit.

just a teeny bit.

Just shared reality, you know?

I think, another need that I was craving that it was longing for, especially during Covid and when we were so far and unable to see our families and friends was, uh, the need to for celebration.

it's, you know, when you have a newborn, uh, you take a picture of every moment or everything, every time something happens, it feels momentous.

It feels, it feels large, and it feels like the first time they said goo, you know, is, is something to, to make a note of in your journal.

And, and, um, to not be able to feel that joy, um, near other people was really, was very challenging.

There's this poet Roque that says that Happiness is accompanying each other in our moments of pain and celebration.

And it, and it sounds like, there was need for other people for that reflection, for just celebrating the little things for a sense of community.

I love that, what you just said about Happiness.

I mean, it, I it's, I think so often we, As a society, um, we feel like that is the ultimate goal, right?

Happiness and to be happy and wish that all the time for ourselves and for others.

Whereas I think that, the more realistic wish and the more deeper way to, to live and connect with other people is to, to share moments of difficulty, and to wish to be able to be present for paying for other people's pain for our own, and to be able to ask other people for help in that moment.

Because everyone wants to show up for their loved ones.

Um, and if we don't ask for help, we deny that opportunity to other people.

Whereas if we do, we create a possibility for someone to learn more about themselves, to be brave, to support someone in ways they didn't know possible, and to explore this space between each other that is the ultimate reality.

I remember being stuck in an airport in Madrid.

I was going from Costa Rica to Rome to be with my dad, to give a workshop at the United Nations about non-violent communication.

And I had been diagnosed with cancer three days before, and right after getting diagnosed, I had to facilitate a retreat for the the Minister of Education and all of these other quote unquote important people that wanted to bring empathy into the public school system.

And I, I literally hadn't even had a moment to kind of be still and to think about it and to just digest and feel what those words meant.

And I remember missing my connection from Madrid to Rome and I just got so mad, like, are you serious?

Cuz I travel a lot and I don't miss flights hardly ever.

And it just felt like the worst moment to miss a flight.

And I remember I called you in that moment to tell you.

And you know, your words apart from crying with me was we're gonna go through it together.

And that was beyond valuable for me.

Feeling like I was about to go through this huge hurdle, this huge thing in my life, and that other people could refer to it as we.

You are not going through it.

We are going through it.

I'm gonna be with you every step of the way.

And I think your perspective on the beauty of accompanying people who are going through illness and seeing that as an opportunity to show up has really helped me as for the support that I need in the moments when I need it the most.

Because there's so many things that come up for us around, no, I don't wanna bother anyone.

No if they haven't said anything, they don't care.

No if they haven't, you know, this or that.

But to learn to ask because you truly believe that for that person who shows up for you, that is a valuable experience as well, was revolutionary for me.

It doesn't get much more intense than that, than being faced with your own mortality and questions about the future of your body.

And to be able to pass that on to someone and to open that conversation takes a lot, a lot of courage.

It's so much easier to refer back to the idea that you can be successful on your own and you don't need, well, that it's a linear path, that you can rely on the care of the professionals, which is absolutely essential, but it's not all there is, right?

And we see that over and over again with illness, how, how much of it happens outside of the body.

And outside of places of therapy.

So in the home and on the way to the hospital and in the waiting rooms, and that's where these big questions come to life.

Yeah.

And there's so many people that show up in unexpected ways when you open yourself up to that.

And it forever changed the path, my healing path.

Because my healing path was full of allies and sisterhood and family and friends, and I was so lucky in that regard.

And I also think that something had to shift in me to be able to ask for that support and to be open to receive it.

I, I realize now that we have a couple years of perspective on what your illness journey was.

Is that as terrifying and challenging as especially those early days were?

Um, the days before and after, immediately after the operations and, the days of waiting for test results and everything, uh, there are equal parts, intense, intense moments of joy and celebration.

I mean, if I, if I think back to receiving a message from you, that came to our, chat of people that were with you on that journey, it's, it's the most joy I could probably one, could probably ever feel.

Thank you for sharing that joy and celebration with me.

I have to say the deep gratitude and even beauty that I experienced when I was going through my healing journey was the most unexpected part about my illness.

It truly took me by surprise.

Returning to our archetypical map, Maureen Murdoch, the author of the book, The Heroine's Journey, speaks to a sense of urgency to reconnect with the feminine in the phase of rebirth and emergence, specifically.

I think there are many ways in which we can interpret that.

Connecting with other women and a sense of sisterhood, reconnecting and developing our relationship with our intuition, our ancestors care and connection with Mother Earth, and so I'm wondering what role has the support of other women played in your life?

Well, I think the process of coming out, that sense of loneliness and loss was intensified by the, the time that I spent in Campo.

And the place where we work is, like you said, it's, it's a castle.

It's in the middle of the woods, and it was built as a community refuge.

It's over a thousand years old.

There was probably something even there, um, that was a place of ceremony before that.

But, the way that we know it now is centuries old and it served to protect, people from the neighboring villages when they were, um, under attack, under siege was common through all the middle ages.

And people would come in and be able to, um, close the gates and Be protected inside.

And so what's lovely that became apparent to me, again, it wasn't, didn't reveal itself immediately, but that I realized after a few years of doing this work was that we were really just reclaiming this mission that the, the place had.

It wasn't even about what we wanted to do.

We were just bringing back the original intention of the place,

Of the land.

Oh

Of the land.

And the reason that it works so well is, and the reason that it was built there where it was, is also because, is of the landscape and because of the, um, the, the physical place.

It really is like traveling into another time and, and that for some reason is comforting.

It just opens the sense of possibility, you know?

And I I imagine that, you started talking about that sense of place, because going back to Campo was part of your coming to life again, like feeling reconnected to that land and to the women that inhabit that land.

Because part of, and I, I just have to mention that this castle and these programs and this NGO is run by four women.

Your mother, yourself, your twin sister, and your younger sister as well.

And it's just this incredible matriarchy in this magical place, taking care of the land and taking care of, you know, sick people, whatever that means.

That's a difficult label, but it's true.

Yeah, it is.

It is a place that for some reason has, has called for women to take care of it.

Before my mother moved there.

Um, the person that had spent the most time there in my family was my great-grandmother.

She lived there in the twenties.

And, um, she also invited in children from the area.

She would host these kind of, these big meals, for, for people in the area.

And she commissioned these frescos to be painted on the interior in the inside of the courtyard.

Um, the main space that we use for all of these events.

And a friend of mine was visiting, uh, one summer or the summer that I was there and pointed out that they were all portraits of women and, of women in various stages of their maternal lives.

There was, uh, there was a picture of my great-grandmother who was pregnant and she was, she was doing this, this game with a flower picking pedals to, to figure out whether it was a boy or a girl.

And, and then there was, there were other women on the other side of the courtyard.

One was breastfeeding, and one was, was a, was a child, uh, and one was an older woman.

And I just, I had never even seen that.

I mean, I, I had never noticed it and I had never put together that this was like a shrine to all the stages of, of the female.

and how interesting that it had been created.

The fests were painted in 1925, um, so almost a hundred years ago now.

And how wonderful to see it so openly displayed.

And, and I remember looking at all those pictures and, and at all those representations of the power and the beauty of, and the mystery of the female and female body and, and feeling so validated and, and so, so comforted and also so surprised that it was in my house.

It was in my the entire time.

I didn't really have to look far to, to see that, oh, actually women are so incredible that they deserve to be memorialized in this way.

Which is unfortunately something we don't see that often.

That's incredible.

I mean, what a story, and for me, it's been so clear since I know you, that that incredible place that your mother and your family inhabits, um, your sisters is a place of service.

They say that deaths and rebirths involve implicit healing processes.

Do you identify with that?

I absolutely think that death, facilitates or allows for new life to form.

I mean.

It's evident in nature and we should never stop learning from those facts.

When there's a flood, it doesn't, the story doesn't just end there.

It, the water then recedes, um, and, and new life comes up.

And, um, we shouldn't think of death in that way, that it's the end of the story because it's, it really can be just the beginning an exploration, a lifelong exploration and a lifelong search for, for purpose.

Did you have any internal resources to move through this period?

Well, I, it may sound simple, but I, I, for me, once I started to, uh, reframe my reality and redefine everything that I was seeing in a different way, I couldn't stop.

And, and it gave me a whole new perspective on everything that was happening.

So I would, you know, instead of being frustrated that I, I had slept so little, I w started to feel, but really feel deep gratitude for the, the opportunity to lie next to my daughter when, and comfort her when she was crying and keeping me awake.

But, but be able to just see the other side or just see a different side.

And I, and that's always accessible to all of us.

It's always about the way you choose to see something.

And what other ways are there to define a situation?

What other things are happening there?

It's not just a problem.

There's also a million things at work.

There's a million miracles happening.

There's a million relationships that are forming.

There's a future developing.

There's a past that plays into it.

There's people there for you when you feel alone.

So, I mean, it's just, it's just about adding a couple more words to the sentence and, and reframing the situation.

Or changing it around a bit, you know, I love that.

I love that.

I, I, I'm such a believer in the power of perspective and just the power of narrative, and we, we can't control what, what happens in our lives, but we can control how we frame and give meaning to those experiences.

And, uh, these moments of confusion and chaos I think are very fertile in asking ourselves that question.

You know, what is the story that I'm telling myself about this situation?

And what are other stories that I can explore?

What are other perspectives?

What are other possibilities?

And what are other people doing with their pain?

You know, that's something that's always served me so much is to understand my own challenges.

Um, I try to connect with other people's.

Um, I try to understand what other people might be going through that is similar or radically different.

I try to offer my time to another person's challenges or situations.

And, and that will always serve you, that will always feel like a lifting up.

If you're able to keep giving, then you never sink.

But it's always the right choice and it's always a discovery.

it feels comforting to know that we all will at some point be going through something similar.

So we are lonely and that many times alone, but we're never abandoned on this journey.

And rather than trying to avoid it, I think there's much, much more ease and and beauty to be found in, in accepting that we sh that we can embrace it all, and that we can live fully through pain, with pain, um, and come out another side with valuable tools and valuable feelings about our own lives and valuable discoveries.

I think it's important to.

remember that everything passes and everything is constantly in motion.

And things that feel like they're permanent aren't.

And that goes for good feelings and bad feelings.

Because when I was feeling stuck in my role as a new parent, it was because I couldn't see that, these challenges and the, the, the sleeplessness and the, um, the exhaustion around changing diapers or, um, making baby food and, and physically holding up a very heavy baby for hours on end, um, I couldn't see that that was all gonna go away before I knew it, it was all gonna be gone.

And so then if you start to, if you start to remember that and remember it often enough, um, you build a sense of gratitude for the moment and for the present, for what is your, your present life.

and that will, that will get you through most everything, I think.

I think we've become so used to seeking, um, what's comfortable, you know, in our, in our lives and as a society.

And we try to avoid discomfort as much as possible.

And, and while I realize that that's, you know, that's a worthy goal, I also think that's where the lesson, that's where the teachers are.

And that's where you can feel powerful.

Overcoming challenge and, and witnessing other people embrace challenge can bring power into someone's life.

If you could paint an image of what this stage of the heroines journey looks like, what would it look like?

The first image that came to mind is, um, that photograph of the earth from space, where it looks like a little marble floating, uh, that's just vastness?

And, And, to see the world from above?

To me that's what emergence is.

Rather than have people looking at you, to be able to be the eyes and to be witness to the world and witness to, um, whatever your reality is, and to be able to, to see it from as far as you need to reframe the story.

This conversation with Sophia Rossini was made possible by Nucleo, a holistic business consulting and sustainable project management firm in service of new social systems.

Find more at Nucleo.

com and also Hotel Belmar, offering elevated hospitality while embracing nature's transformative energy.

You can find them at HotelBelmar.

net.

I was struck by many things in this episode, some that I didn't even know until now.

Here are three gems I'm taking with me.

First, I thought it was so brave to name motherhood as a symbolic death.

I'm sure grieving and losing parts of yourself and identity when giving birth for the first time is something many mothers can relate to and might feel taboo to speak of.

It made me wonder if postpartum depression is somehow a reflection of that.

Soph talks about how a change in her perspective changed everything.

It allowed her to embrace it all, both the fulfillment and the sense of loss, and how appreciation for the present moment was the key to being able to hold it all.

Second, I deeply resonated with her understanding of illness, and specifically when she speaks of valuing lived experience over a biomedical explanation.

In other words, Giving more importance to the experience a person is living than their physical symptoms or diagnosis.

This can be extremely powerful when trying to empathize with someone undergoing some kind of serious illness.

And I'm sure this understanding is informed by both her work with Campo Base and her academic background.

And finally, I love the way Sofia spoke about reclaiming the mission of the place her family inhabits.

This idea that women had been called to use the castle and land to protect and care for the community gave me chills.

It got me wondering on what would happen if we listened to what the land was trying to tell us about the mission it wants to fulfill.

I mean, the message she noticed with the fresco serving as a divine shrine to the mystery and stages of the female body and how that message was in her home all along?

Wow.

The power of connecting to our roots.

I want to end with a phrase that Sophia said that I believe captures emergence in a nugget of wisdom.

Death allows for new life to form.

If you want to connect with our community and find more information about this phase, follow us on Instagram at the Heroines Journey Project.

If you enjoyed this episode, please rate the show and share it with your loved ones.

Remember you can find all episodes at christineraine.org/podcast and all platforms where podcasts are found.

The first season has original music by British singer songwriter and fellow SOAS graduate, Nick Mulvey, as well as from Pasiflora.

See you next time where we will be talking to musician, producer and sound healer, Nathan Getzen, about what true vulnerability means to him.