In this episode special guest is Dr. Kara Cooney, Egyptologist, and author of When Women Ruled the World. Did you know that thousands of years ago ancient Egypt allowed women to rule and they called them Kings?! Amazing as it sounds there was still a very prevalent undercurrent of patriarchy that they ruled in, one that still exists today in the majority of positions of power. Exploring female power in the past can teach us a lot about female power today and Kara explains the similarities and differences between the times. We have lived by the rules of patriarchy for a long time now, and it’s about time for a change!

About the Guest:

Dr. Kathlyn (Kara) Cooney is a professor of Egyptian Art and Architecture at UCLA. Specializing in craft production, coffin studies, and economies in the ancient world, she received her Ph.D. in Egyptology from Johns Hopkins University. When Women Ruled the World, Her most recent book was published in 2018 by National Geographic Press and explored the reigns of six powerful ancient Egyptian queens and how they changed our perceptions of power.

Links:

https://nelc.ucla.edu/person/kara-cooney/

Instagram:

@karacooney

Book:

https://www.amazon.ca/When-Women-Ruled-World-Queens/dp/1426219776

Welcome to the wealth and wellness podcast with

me Kayleigh, Bob air. I specialize in helping people to

achieve their financial goals. I have a love for all things

numbers, and I'm passionate about financial literacy. My

goal is to spark healthy and positive conversations around

wealth and investment and create a world where nobody is limited

by their financial situation. But wealth is just one piece of

the equation of living our best lives. So join me as we explore

both wealth and wellness topics. From your net worth to your self

worth. Get ready to take confident action. Hello, this is

Kaylee and thank you so much for tuning into this episode of the

wealth and wellness podcast. Very excited for today's guest

and today's topic. I'm all about empowering women. You know,

women being in control of their their money, their finances. So

I think this is a really neat topic. So we have special

guests, Dr. Kara Cooney, who is a professor of Egyptian art and

architecture at UCLA, specializing in craft

production, coffin studies and economies in the ancient world.

She received her PhD in Egypt homology from John Johns Hopkins

University, and her new book when women ruled the world was

published in 2018, by National Geographic press, and explores

the reigns of six powerful ancient Egyptian queens and how

they change our perceptions of power. So we're gonna go all

into that. I love it. I'm excited. Thank you so much for

being with us today. Kara. Just to get started. Is there

anything to add to that a little bit about your journey? And what

brought you to do this work?

No, no, I'm sure I'm completely different

from any of the other guests on your podcast. I hope I'm the

first Egyptologist if I'm not, I'll be disappointed.

So definitely the first Egyptologist,

absolutely. Which is exciting and new. And you're right, very

different. Because oftentimes, we're okay, we're very money

focused, or we're wellness focused. But I think this is a

very important piece for women to talk about. Because when

we're when we're talking about finances, and careers, and

things like that, there is still this balance of power that, you

know, is not completely equivalent. And I work in a very

male dominated industry, still only about 15% women, female

advisors, which is unfortunate. And so there's work to be done.

So it's amazing to know that going into our past, there was

actually a difference there.

Yeah, a little bit, but but all under cut it too. So

don't you worry. Okay, I'll get there.

So can you tell us a bit about okay, so female

power in the past? And how you know what that looked like then

in this in this book that were you talking about when women

ruled the world?

Yeah, Egypt was this strange and unusual place that

allowed women to act as nothing less than leader of state as

king, and they called them kings. So but for people get

upset that I'm not using the word queen. That's why the

Egyptians called them kings. And they allowed them to rule from

the very beginnings of their kingship to the ends of their,

their kingship and women, powerful women really bookend

the entire scheme, which gives you an idea that, when when, and

here's the dirty little secret of the whole thing, when

authoritarian power is held in the hands of one family, women

are needed. I could have written a book that was all about how it

was a revisionist history, claiming that women were more

powerful than they were. Instead, I wrote a book that

said, women are capable of ruling, and there are their

workplaces in the past that allowed them to rule. But don't

misunderstand that these women couldn't change the system. From

the inside out, they ruled in the same patriarchy that we

exist in today. And they had to play by those rules as well. So

it from your perspective, being a woman in finance, where

there's only what 8% female CEOs of Fortune 500 companies and as

you say, 15% financial advisors, finance is the economic power is

one of the places where women are, are really barred from

playing. And if you know that, and you learn from these women

who couldn't change the patriarchy, you can you can gain

some insight on how to find your way forward in a man's world.

What can you say that about these women? And like

was there differences to how they ruled versus how men ruled

like it sounds like they kind of had to follow the rule. But was

there some differences there?

There are always differences. There have to be

any woman who rules and I'm chair of my department. So I

understand this women who rule in whatever small or large

capacity I know that they are expected to rule differently and

that they have to fulfill certain expectations. And if

they don't, then they will be Hillary Clinton or Yoko Ono,

however you want to, you want to see it because a woman who, who

is openly ambitious and claims power that is not perceived to

be her own, who is not playing by patriarchal rules, because

usually quashed pretty effectively and pretty quickly.

So if you're going to be strategic about it, then you you

have to play by the game of being more peaceful, being more

self denigrating, laughing more being, there's all kinds of

things a woman just knows in her bones she has to do. And I will

say, for these ancient women, the only reason they were chosen

is because they didn't have armies behind them. They weren't

trained in professions, they weren't socially embedded. And

as such, they were the Safer Choice when say, a young king

comes to the throne, and he's unready to rule. And you need a

decision maker, because the kids like seven or eight, no one's

gonna let a seven or eight year old make decisions. But do you

have the uncle of the kid make the decisions? Or do you have

his mother make the decisions, and the mother the Egyptians

realize was the better choice, because the uncle might be able

to raise an army he's embedded in society is going to be able

to create competition against his nephew, the mother probably

won't want to do that because she loves her boy. But say you

choose a mother who's not directly related to this boy,

even in that case, she's a safer bet, because she doesn't have

access to all of the social tools that men who are embedded

in society do. And and so she's expected to rule and then when

when her time is done, just be quiet, sweetheart, go away.

We're done with you now. And and you're, you're good to go. So,

these women did roll rather as placeholders. But they were

chosen by a male driven and male lead system, because they could

be so effectively used as placeholders. Men were more

difficult to use in that way, they got more powerful within

the system, as they went up that ladder, and women often don't.

And that's something that we need to think about. Why is

that? How is that? Why is it so hard for a woman in a king ship

or in a corporate space to gain a legacy to train people

underneath her to be a leader? of many how, why does a woman

have to compete with other woman women, why she set up to do

that? It's a very common thing in the corporate world. In my

university world, women are often trying to take out other

women, but we shouldn't expect any less. That's the patriarchal

system. We're all looking towards the guy at the top and

trying to take each other out to get to that guy. So my opinion

is just like racism, if you understand that racism is

inherent to the human species, but with education and, and

communication, and openness, we can we can transcend it. The

same with sexism, if that's something that's inbred, that's

arguable, but we certainly live in a patriarchal system. So

given that it's nicer to give it a cold, hard stare, and say,

Okay, how am I going to get over that hill? And that's the way I

tend to do it.

Yeah, absolutely. That's very, like

very interesting and ways of looking at that and questions to

ask of why, why is this happening? And why does it look

like that? When you were saying like in those positions, and

they were good placeholders, then were they taken serious

like was that still that they were taken serious in their

role?

They're taken seriously, but they're also not

given the full range of options that a man will have. And let me

just give you a biological example. So a man in the

position of King, what's the king most known to have? How is

he going to create his legacy, he's got a harem of women, whom

he will impregnate with many different children, and one of

those male children will be chosen as king after him. But he

will then have a variety of princes and princesses to use,

as his legacy. Now, biologically, was just the way

mammals work, the female creates the baby inside of her body,

very taxing, if you have done it, I have done it, it's a hard

thing. It's not easy. And then all the things that come after

and the breastfeeding, the caretaking, and the hormone

changes, it's not an easy thing, to have a an alien take over

your body. And to deal with that, plus, you can only have

one a year. And the man can have 365 a year if he is if he is so

endowed. And so in those terms, just in terms of biology, a man

is less burdened with caretaking hormonally physically than a

woman is whether it's having children or not in our world,

right. So think of it in our world. So imagine that you're a

professor like me, and and let's imagine that we humans have

pheromones that we can't even sense or that we have social

cues that we don't really understand. I with my door open

and more liable to get undergraduates in my office

weeping about their problems than my male colleagues who give

off a strong male vibe and so they don't have to deal with all

of that caretaking. Whereas I'm caretaking all the time. And I

have to put up like a certain front to be able to not

caretaker, I have to often not be in my office so that I don't

have to take on that role. And it means that even in a

corporate space, women are leading less creating less

progeny, if you like, less legacy, and taking care and

cleaning up messes more, which means that, and we're expected

to do this, this is part of what we do. So you've got to bust it

and work twice as hard to be able to have both to be able to

have your legacy and, and be able to caretake and clean up

all the crap that's happening in that corporate workspace. And if

you want to have kids, in addition, you know, just to take

on that private life aspect, if you do want to have a child, how

are you going to literally farm that out as you as you work

through the corporate world to be able to have all of these

things it's it's very difficult to negotiate what's expected

and, and that are an unspoken, unspoken and biases that people

don't even know they have. And and try to find some power in

your workplace. It's what makes women get that stereotypical

reputation of the bitch. Because if she doesn't care, take and

smile and stroke ego, then she is considered on feminine,

highly problematic. Something that that is upsetting to the

social core, and we don't talk enough about why and how that

works. Absolutely, we

don't know. And then when it came to so when it

was women ruling the world, how is the finances looked at then

because I'm writing a book and I'm on this chapter right now

about not giving up your control. And so often women,

it's just like, okay, you know, my husband takes care of this,

my boyfriend takes care of this. And I'm like, we can't do that

anymore. Gotta stay engaged, stay involved. What did it look

like back then? Was there power for women in finances? Like, did

they have that that ability that

Egyptian women did have this ability. It's funny you say

this about finances. I had a really horrible car accident in

1999. And I gave financial control to my partner then that

turned out horribly, I know divorced from him. But oh my god

and credit cards in my name I didn't know about and when I

divorced, it was a credit card debt of hundreds of 1000s of

dollars, that of course I was then liable for as well. So at

least I'm in California that the half payment kind of worked for

me, because he had to at least pay half of it. But anyway, in

Egypt, women, this is normal women, not just queens or

princesses. Women could bring money into a marriage, they

could initiate a divorce, and they could take money out of a

marriage. So they had their own independence in a way that other

parts of the ancient world did not like Greece or Rome or

Mesopotamia or the Levant. Women did have this economic power. It

didn't equal that of men. However, because they couldn't

enter professions, and patriarchal societies, until

recently, did not allow women to enter professions unless they

gave up their sexuality entirely. Which is why you see

an abbess in charge of all kinds of finance. Why did they let a

nun do this? Well, she doesn't have children. She doesn't have

a legacy. She's not going to complicate things. Okay, well

let her take over all of the money. You could say Elizabeth,

the first Queen Elizabeth. The first is this similar example

and these Egyptian women. Women like Hatshepsut, you know, she

doesn't have a son as a legacy. She wouldn't be there. If she'd

had a son, she's ruling with her nephew. But she would have been

as much a part of ruling Egypt's economy as he would have. And

until he came of age, she would have ruled at all and made all

the decisions about what went where, having said that, and

this is a really interesting point for hardship suit, female

King of the 18th dynasty before her reign, the nobles of Egypt

had nice things, you know, tunes, chapels, statues,

reasonably nice things during her reign. They have the nicest

things you could possibly imagine. They have beautiful

tomb chapels and statues and all kinds of things. They were

spending money. There were more of these nobles than ever

before. It means that Hatshepsut in many ways had to give to get

she had to pay people off. How do we pay people off? It's never

like, I'm gonna give you this, you're gonna give me that. It's

like, oh, I will make you the great overseer of the robes, you

know, and you will receive this salary and then you will be

beholden to me. She makes all of these different positions within

her kingship. And they're, they're useful to her but that

means that she's letting tons of cash however you want to

understand that for the ancient world out of Her treasuries, and

the Egyptian court, or the king ship is diminished for

generations thereafter. So I think it's expected that for

women to gain power, they also have to maybe distribute a

little bit more of that than would be expected. It's

something to look at, right? It's something to think about

when you're in your corporate workspace or you're, you're

trying to bust in, in some profession here or there. What

do people expect you to give them? How much do they expect

you to share? How much do they think they have helped you

achieve? And that they get a cut of in some way? These these are

interesting things to see in the ancient record and then to

connect to the modern day.

Yeah, well, even in like direct, like financial

life, like I have a chapter about loving your money too. And

I said, as women it's like, we think it's greedy or selfish to

say I love money. I want abundance. And we think we have

to give it all away. So often women are just, it comes in and

it's like, okay, I'll give it to my children. I'll give it to

other people. And there's nothing left. So it's so funny

to think that that that was like something very ongoing and it's

so ingrained then maybe that's connected

to caretaking. Yes, connected with caretaking.

Right. So we have all of these stereotypes of the woman who

spends too much on clothing, shoes, handbags, plastic

surgery. It's interesting how much of that those handbags and

shoes are considered gifts from the man everyone wants a handbag

from their man or a diamond ring from their man, then it's okay.

Because he's marking her as his property in a patriarchal world.

She buys it for herself, then it's like, Oh, my God, think of

the good that you could have done with that money. I mean, I

actually happen to agree with that. And I think these handbags

are stupid, but that's just me. Right? If you want the handbag,

then you should be able to buy it for yourself. But it's it's

part of that caretaking? It really is. It's and it also

reminds me of Do you know anything about micro loans? I

think so yes, this is a really interesting anthropological

rabbit hole for you to go down. Because there are micro loans

given to women and traditional cultures. And they generally by

and large, do not give them to men. These are like small loans

of 50 bucks, where you can buy a cow, take the milk, make it into

cheese, create a small business, take care of your family, right?

If they give men those micro loans, they have found on in

general that the men take it to the bar and create social

capital, which works very well for them buying drinks for all

the guys creating gift debt. And they'll be able to you know, but

it's not going to help the family. It's not money put into

caretaking. Whereas when they give it to the women, the women

make very different decisions embedded within the patriarchal

society as they are unable to have professions. They make

different decisions. It's why women are also drawn to all of

these pyramid schemes that we see in the world today. Because

they're stuck at home, they can't get out. And so they ended

up selling bad leggings or whatever some of these other

schemes are.

Yeah, okay. Interesting. I love it. These

are all very interesting points and to see how it played out in

the history versus now. What What would you think could be

different now like with what's going on in the world? I mean,

we're we have a war happening right now with leaders. And I

say, in my mind, I believe if more women were in the position

of power, this wouldn't be happening at all. I agree. What

can we say to that then? And how like, was there differences in

in violence and actual, you know, war and things like that,

historically, when women ruled?

Yeah, women of the ancient world had to do what men

did. So the first woman I talk about in the book, when women

will the world is a is the only woman who didn't become a female

king in the lineup, but she's very good as a king, and her

name is Mary Kay. And she is a queen of the first dynasty. And

she rolled on behalf of her young son, who then when he grew

up, took over and buried her as a king in the in the royal

cemetery. This woman when her son was thrown in throne

crowned, she ended up engaging in the same human sacrifice that

had occurred in her father's reign. And that would occur when

her son died after so the first dynasty is known for human

sacrifice. When the king dies, not a couple of people and not

enemies of state, that people have the court, wives of the

king, sons of the King brothers of the king, these people would

be sacrificed. And we don't even know exactly how poisoned maybe

some sort of blunt force trauma, it's not clear, but hundreds of

bodies around the body of the king and they were purposefully

buried all at one time. So you could look at some women and

say, women ruled differently and make that blanket statement. In

some ways. I'll agree with you within the context of a

patriarchy. However, women do what they need to do if they're

occupying the position of a man is the decision holder that a

man would have the place that him And what happens, if it is

expected that blood be spilled, she will do it and marinate when

she puts her son on the throne or she watches her son be put on

the throne by all of these priests. And it is expected that

this human sacrifice take place, we can assume that she made the

decision about who lived and who died. And it's a very

interesting thing that she decided that more males would be

sacrificed. And it's a defensive strategic strategy, right? To

make sure that not too many males were around of her son's

age of her son stature to take his power away. So she's the

best offense for her was a good defense. And she she made the

decision not to kill as many wives for her for the burial of

her former husband, but her dead husband, but instead to kill

more of the males that could potentially compete with her

son. So her being a woman didn't make her any more Pacific. It

didn't make her any calmer. She had to do what she had to do. I

will say, though, that the expectations of a woman and the

way a woman is embedded in society generally do make a

woman less violent than a man, I agree with you. I think that if

there was a woman, President of Russia, well, first of all, I

don't think it would be as as drastically authoritarian as it

is. And secondly, I don't think that you would do something so

boneheaded ly stupid is just decide to invade another place

and take it like this is mine. It's just such bullying,

playground behavior, right. And I also like to think as a

historian looking at things over a very long duration of time, my

history goes back 5000 years, I like to think that we are now

existing in a late stage patriarchy, patriarchy is

failing, and it's failing before our eyes. I'd also like to

remind your listeners that patriarchy is very young, in the

long term scheme of things. 10,000 years old, at best, were

where we are in the United States, maybe four or 500 years

old, you know, in most very young, this idea of farming and

hoarding resources and social inequality and, and violent

invasions and things like that. Not that you didn't have islands

before. But this this kind of patriarchal hoarding, and seeing

a forest of value only when it's cut down and made into lumber.

This is, this is rather new, and it's not something that's

sustainable anymore. I think we all feel it. It's interesting

that it's something that unites both right and left, both right

and left, look at the world around us and go, Oh, my God, we

are all of us perched on the edge of a cliff, ready to jump

into, we don't know what Now, some people on the hard right

will say, Well, we have to go back, we have to go back to what

we had before. And they'll be like, no, no, we're not, we're

just not going to go there. We're just gonna go back as if

that's possible, right? And most of society is like, no, no, no,

we have almost 8 billion people on the planet, something's

happening, people are deciding not to get married not to have

babies. In Los Angeles, where I live, the amount of people

opting out of society entirely, as homeless junkies is

extraordinary. Or they're just like, you know, I'm just not

going to do anything. It's amazing to see and disturbing.

But you can see society changing very quickly around you. And to

see all of those things is it's, it just makes one realize that

we are on the edge of something very big. And what can Egypt

teach us from this, I mean, Egypt teaches us that human

beings, if they can just recreate it and do it all again,

they will, they'll they'll have the downward slide. And then

they'll build it all back up, again, another downward slide,

build it all back up again. And they'll do that again and again.

But we're reaching a point where the earth isn't going to sustain

that kind of smashing and grabbing that kind of male

against male violence. And people are seeing it very

clearly for what it is the social inequalities, the race

inequalities, that gender inequalities, and people are

pissed off, and, and opting out in their ways creating their own

black markets, if you will, their own their own side.

hustles. But there's a lot of anger, I guess, people have to

be worth $300 billion, like Jeff Bezos, before we realized that

we have kings in our myths, too.

Yeah. Yeah, that yeah, where the money is, the

power is as well now, that's where it resides, which is

interesting. So what can we say that like, can we take like, it

sounds like, okay, there were women rulers, but oftentimes,

they were following by the rules and almost like, the strategy

was, you know, to stay there and to appease the men, it was, you

know, follow the rules and do it this way. So can we can we learn

from the rulers of the past these women or is it you know,

can we learn what not to do or what we can do because you're

right there is that what did you call it that Hillary Clinton

where it was, you know, she was evil and a terrible person. And

so it's just like, you can't win that and it's, you know, you go

under the radar and you follow the sort of Male kind of

expectation or you stand out from the crowd and you get booed

just as much and, and yeah, call up like that your your mean and

looked at like as a man or something like that and bossy or

whatever they want to call you. So what is it? What can we

learn? Or what can we do now,

with Egyptian women can teach us how a patriarchal

society works. And we can learn that way. Egypt is so useful to

me as you look at Egypt, and you're like, Oh, my God, look at

those weird crowns. There's some silly oh my god, look at those

weird gods, we would never do that. And then the more you

study them more I study them. The more I write about them, the

more I realize we're just like them. But Egypt allows us to see

rule that's over the top, you know, I am a God King. And we

don't see it in our own society because they're dressed like us.

They're they use our own ciphers. I'm sure it was the

same in Egypt, too. And even when you know, these guys have

private islands and jets and yachts that are like, you can't

even believe it, right? We still don't really see the power right

in front of our eyes. And the reason I use Egypt is because as

my main comparison for studying the world around me today, is

because it's so obvious the social inequalities, the

inequities, the the grab, and you know, the power plays. And I

think we need to see more of that in our world today. Did we

did the Egyptians, the women teach us anything? I mean, they

they teach us what it's like to get pushed back down, they teach

us what back lashes, they teach us that as soon as we think

we've made it, that we have another year of the woman,

they're going to push us back down again, they teach us that

having a female body is probably the biggest liability, and it's

something we will never change. Because if we want to have

children, this is something we have to go along with. If you

cannot transcend your breasts and your ovaries, it's not going

to happen. You can deny them. But is that what makes you happy

is that when you're on your deathbed, and you're dying,

you're gonna be like, Oh, I built a corporation, you're

gonna be like, I'm my children, which is and I think the man

would feel the same way. Right? What makes you happy? And on

your deathbed. That's what I always think about it. Like,

what do I want on my deathbed? What am I going to be working

towards? I wrote a lot about this. You mentioned when women

ruled the world, but I wrote a book recently called the good

kings, which deals with all of these feminists tropes. Money

Power, how this works, but through a hard patriarchal lens,

looking at kingship, and my last chapter is like, well, what the

hell do we do now? We're stuck in this patriarchal system. It's

the water in which we swim, we can hardly see anything else.

How are we supposed to overcome this? How are we supposed to

find our way forward, and it is happening all around us, we just

we need to look at those things. We need to look at women out

earning college degrees, women acting as breadwinners of their

family, women acting as caretakers. And as breadwinners,

we need to see how people are opting out of binary gender

entirely. And we have a whole transgender movement that is we

also see at the same time the the vociferous and very brutal

pushback in states like Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, we could go

on Georgia, right. And we see the racism very clearly, around

us as well. So I suppose what what I would say is that, we

need to realize that just because we're modern, and we

have televisions and iPads, and mics, you know, like, I'm

talking to you with the headphones, whatever, space

spaceships and satellites that were just animals on this

planet, and we need to get along with this planet. And I think

the last chapter of my book, I'm like, Okay, how do we smash the

patriarchy? How does that even work? What is it? And so these

women teach us what patriarchy is teach us how it keeps you in

your place. And it's it teaches us that it takes a very long

time to undo patterns of seeing and ways of being, you know,

like, I'm 50 years old. And, and, you know, 30 years ago, I

would just be some old gross lady, and now we see women

maintaining a sexual hotness into their crone years. And I

intend to try to do that, as well, right? By showing wrinkles

and being normal and not plastic surgery in it for a man and

getting the boob job and all of that, but, but embracing a

different kind of feminine attraction and trying to not go

silent and unseen. as I age, there's all kinds of things that

I could talk about that the patriarchy totally messes with

our brains about, and how if we see it, clearly, we use a place

like Egypt to see it. We're like, Oh, crap, it's everywhere.

It's all around us. And that we're just as ancient as we ever

were. So how are we going to make something really, really

new? And really different that works for all this? I think we

can all agree that society right now looks pretty bad.

Yeah, I agree. Absolutely. Well thank you so

much. I love this conversation. I could talk this kind of stuff

all day long. I know very much like the focus of my book, which

is really about women and money and, and trying to exactly

understand that and how can we change this? And just yeah in

ourselves like how can we really be happy and satisfied then as

women in our careers in our financial lives and with family

and all that to resolve this pressure? So, love this

conversation? If anyone wants to read further, what's the best

way for them to I guess, reach out to you or find your books or

anything like that?

Yeah, if you Google my name Kara with a que Cooney with

a C, you'll find my website pretty easily. Okay, and you can

go from there. I have a podcast called afterlives with Kara

Cooney, and I make the ancient world relevant. And we look at

the past and I'm like, Oh, my God, this is still happening

today and look at this craziness. And we, we look at

where we came from, to try to understand where we are. And I'm

on substack. And I'm also on Facebook and Twitter. I find

myself posting there less and, and trying to control a little

bit more of my content now that what's his face is by Twitter,

you know where to go, right? Elon Musk, and so, you know, all

these billionaires, all these kings, just taking more and

more. It's very annoying. And so I like to go to those platforms

that are a little smaller, more Mom and Pop, and try to say more

there.

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And I can

include some of that in the show notes as well. Oh, yeah. Great.

Thank you so much. That was awesome. I love this

conversation.

Thank you so much, Kaylee. It was fun.

It's good. It's empowering as women talking

about this because it's like, Okay, we got work to do and we

know it now. And let's be aware, and let's do something about it.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much. Thank you everyone

for listening into this episode, and I will catch you on next

week's episode. Good bye for now.

I hope you found value in this episode. And because I'm such a

proponent of taking confident action, I want to pose a

question to you the listener. What is one action that you feel

inspired to take after listening to today's episode? If you enjoy

listening, please subscribe and share with your friends and

family. Thank you so much and I will catch you next time.