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ep. 17 Wild Roses are worth it. Interview w/ Kevin van Tighem
Episode 17 • 6th June 2021 • The Borealis Experience • Aurora Eggert
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Today with me Kevin van Tighem,

Naturalist and former superintendent of Banff National Park, has written several books and was awarded the Canadian Wildlife Federation’s Robert Bateman Award for Conservation through the Arts for his fiction and non-fiction writing about wildlife and nature.

We sat together (at a distance :) ) and discussed the future of Alberta/Canada

The world is going through a big depression right now.

How can we see the light at the end of the tunnel ?

how can we be less scared of what is to come next ?

What is our most precious resource that we have to protect at all cost

Enjoy the precious insights Kevin will share with you today on how to become more resilient in the future and appreciate nature / understand nature.

with love,

Aurora

please check out Kevin's latest book

https://www.amazon.ca/Wild-Roses-Are-Worth-Reimagining/dp/1771604859


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really get to know yourself and find out what steps you can take to untangle

yourself from a situation you don’t wish to be in. I invite you to get to know yourself better in order for you to make the right choices for yourself in the future.


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Free yourself from the ongoing destructive inner chatter become the strongest most authentic version of yourself.





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Transcripts

Unknown:

Hello and welcome to the Borealis experience. I'm

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delighted to have Kevin Van Tighem with me today. He's a

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native born calgarian naturalist, and writer. He

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published several books in the past decade that are so

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incredibly inspiring. And I feel he has a big message to share

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today. We need to protect our headwaters. We need to reconnect

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to nature, there is more and more people committing suicide

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there is more and more people struggling with finances and

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depression. And we want to give you hope, that there is

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solutions to this recession to this depression that I Berta

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Canada, the world is going through right now. And we want

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to share with you our thoughts on the future. And yeah, again,

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give you hope, and love and appreciation for mother nature

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that is constantly supporting us and nurturing us. Thank you so

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much for listening.

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Also, a

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little disclaimer in the second part of the interview, we were

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sitting together at a distance outside and the wind was blowing

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quiet, noisy Lee. So yeah, please don't mind the wind in

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the background. It is not background noise. It is Mother

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Nature being present with us. Thanks for listening. Hello

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there.

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Kevin.

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So nice to have you here today. I would love to start out this

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conversation and ask you to explain a little bit on how

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connected the water is to plants and to the animals around us.

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Um, well, you know, everything is connected in this world. I

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mean, that's one thing you discover, the more time you

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spend in it, every everything you do, has an effect on on many

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other things and everything that happens in nature has multiple

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effects on so in Alberta, we are a very water short region. And

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we've always valued water. And you know, you were saying

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earlier that Alberta is not full of tree huggers. I'm not

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convinced That's true. I just don't think we've ever looked

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closely enough in the mirror I I think we're starting to look in

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the mirror now that our headwaters are are being

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threatened by proposed coal strip mines. If you look at

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Alberta as a water short region, we use a lot of water we got two

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thirds of Alberta's of Canada's irrigated agriculture in Alberta

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as a real water consumer, every industry that that that makes

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our economy run relies to one degree or another on freshwater

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resources. And yet we have very small rivers. I mean, if you've

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been anywhere else in the world, you know, what we call a river

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most places would call a creek, you know that the Old Man River,

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the bow river and our southern rivers are the smallest ones.

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And yet they go to the part of the province that has the most

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people and the most water demands. So, so water is

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critical. It's critical to our present. But it's also very

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critical to our future. You can live without oil. There are

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those in Alberta that think you can. But you can live without

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oil, but you can't live without water. And you can have an

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economy without oil. But you can't have an economy without

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water. So if you think about that, then you got to say, well,

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where does that water come from? What what's, how do we make sure

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that we will have as much water as we possibly can, given the

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nature of this place we live in which is, you know, the lee side

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of the Rocky Mountains, the part that gets the least moisture bc

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gets all the water, you know, that's why they're all green. We

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turn brown in July because everything dries out. But all of

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our water more well more than 80% of the water that we rely on

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for our towns and our communities and our economy and

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our farms comes from the eastern slopes of the Rocky Mountains

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that that strip of green that you see on the highway map of

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Alberta, running up the west side of the province at an angle

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because it's following the mountains. That's where almost

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all our water comes from. It comes mostly to us as snow in

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the winter. And also as a lot you know, usually we get a lot

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of rain in late May and early June, June and that's the other

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source of water. And you know whereas out in the prairies, you

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know Calgary Medicine Hat Lethbridge way east of red deer,

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you don't see a lot of spring rains and you don't get a lot of

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winter snow. You get a lot in the Rockies and all that snow

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melt in the spring and all the rain goes into the ground.

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Because it's well vegetated there's lots of roots providing

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channels for that water to get into the ground, and then it

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seeps slowly through the ground until they It comes out in the

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springs comes out in the bottoms of rivers and creeks as base

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flow, sometimes weeks, sometimes months later. And so it's this

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Matt marvelous system where we got all this precipitation at

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this high elevation, beautiful Rocky Mountains strip and the

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foothills along the edges of the Rockies, we get all this

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precipitation that goes into a well vegetated landscape and

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comes out as clean, cold spring water into trout streams that

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then come together and become the rivers that support our

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province. So we take that for granted though, like, like we're

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sitting in the cities, are we sitting out in the farms, and we

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turn on the tap, or we fire up the irrigation system, or we

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would look out the window with a river, maybe go tubing in this

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on a Saturday afternoon. ends there, right, we just take it

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for granted, the waters always going to be there. But it's not

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always going to be that you only get as much as nature provides.

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And you can waste a lot of what nature provides. And that's what

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we've done.

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When when it comes to us as groundwater is purified and

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filtered by the ground, and it's slowed down. So we get all that

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that that precipitation in the spring. But we most need water

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in the summer. That's when we're growing crops. And then we also

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need water in those rivers year round, because that's how

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ecosystems stay alive is that they have to stay watered,

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right. So that groundwater post is wonderful. It gives us good

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clean water, and it gives us throughout the year. It's the

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perfect storage system, Mother Nature stores most of our water

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in incredibly beautiful scenery. You couldn't ask for anything

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better, right? Go there all summer long enjoy that green

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landscape, walking on the reservoir that is feeding our

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economy and our society and our communities. But when you start

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to muck around with those eastern slopes, that's when

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everything changes. And we've been mucking around with those

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eastern slopes for probably 30 or 40 years and created what

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looks like an industrialized landscape. People go up there

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now and they see roads, they see well sites, they see big clear

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cuts. And they look at it and they say well, this is a place

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for you know, extracting resources, that's obviously what

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this is all about. They don't see it as a water reservoir,

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they don't see its incredible function and keeping our water

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supply secure. They just see what we've done to it. And they

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think that that defines the landscape. And that's why today

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we have a government that actually thinks that would be

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appropriate to strip mining coal from those eastern slopes,

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because they look at and they say, Well, you know, it's just

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another resource. And that's what we do out here. But every

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time you measure those other resources, you're affecting the

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critical resource, which is water, we can live without coal,

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we can live without trees cut from our eastern slopes, we can

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live without playing around on motorized vehicles that create a

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big erosion funnels on the landscape. But we can never live

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without water. So that's how it sort of all comes together. Hmm.

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I'm wondering like if people knew about this, like people

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being educated, when it comes to headwaters and water resources,

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because I feel, especially people in this big cities, they

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open up the tab and they just see water right and running all

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day long. But if they knew how precious it was, then they

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wouldn't take it as granted. I don't want to say that city

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people are, you know, ignorant and don't know anything about

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ecology, but I feel if they knew more about it, they would

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appreciate it more and destroy dry less and be like totally

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awake that Yeah, of course a coal mine is going to create a

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couple jobs, but it's going to destroy

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our water resource.

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Did you like Do you notice that there is a lack of communication

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or misinformation or what or do people know about this

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ecological literacy? A lot of us live in our own little bubbles.

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You know, we're, we're all busy. We're all distracted, because

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it's a digital media era. And we're getting bombarded with

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information and entertainments and things and so. So it's

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really hard to be connected to nature or to be connected to

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place. We're just too busy, we're just too distracted and

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and we also were conditioned to take a lot of things for

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granted. And so that water in the tap is one of those things

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we take for granted. I think there's a couple I think a lot

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of people are waking up are are generally aware of the fact that

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the water comes down soon from the mountains in the foothills,

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but what they don't understand is the processes that sustain

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that water supply. We I really do believe we need to understand

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better the nature of the places that we live in Because that

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makes us more authentically a part of those places, which is

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good for us culturally. But it also means that we can be more

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attentive and more effective at actually sustaining the things

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that are important to us. And, and that certainly includes

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nature. But sitting within that is our water security. So even

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if you don't care about nature, you've got to have water at some

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point.

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Exactly, exactly. And when it comes to the ecosystem, around

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the rivers around the headwaters, can you talk a

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little bit about the animals and the plants, the trees, but also

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I think I heard a story about wolves and deer influencing the

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water, how the water comes down from the mountains and into into

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the river. Can we talk a little bit about the ecosystem around?

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Sure.

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You know, and we talk about riparian ecosystems. And those

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are the ecosystems that are influenced throughout most of

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the Year by the presence of water, so that so there's a

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little green, you know, if everything in the Alberta

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foothills turns brown, they're still green strips, and that's

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the well watered portions of the landscape. That's the riparian

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area. And we think of those as being very biologically

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important. And they are, you know, I think, like 80% of the

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plants and animals that are native to this part of the

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world, actually rely on those little green ribbons, those

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little riparian strips along streams and around ponds and,

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and wetlands. But in reality, the entire landscape is part of

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the river. And I think that's, that's the, that's the key piece

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that gives us the this, really the solutions to our water

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issues is to recognize that when we make land use decisions, we

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are making water decisions, and we are actually affecting the

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health of our streams. And so how that works is that we get

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our winter snows and the snow lands in the landscape and it

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accumulates and becomes a snowpack. And that is a

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reservoir of water, that's actually most of our water,

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probably 80% of our water is stored in snow through the

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winter, we lose a lot of snow to evaporation because it gets

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trapped in tree canopy and gets looked away by that by the wind

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and things like that, but the snow that goes on the ground is

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our water supply. Then in the spring, starting it's a march

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depending on the elevation, that snow melts, if there's good

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vegetation if the ground is covered with vegetation and, and

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and if there's enough shade to sort of delay the melting of the

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snow. So if it's got good forest cover the snow Well, most of

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that snow will melt to end and settle into the ground, it

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actually soaks in the vegetation slows its run off, and holds it

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long enough to soak into the ground. And then what happens is

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is snow melt is ending usually in late May or early June, we

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get our peak rains. And by now this the soil is nice and soft

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that the vegetation has been growing for the spring. So it's

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been, you know, loosening the soil as it builds its roots. And

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that rain is also able to go into the ground, some of it runs

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off, some of it goes in, the more of it that soaks in, the

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healthier the ecosystem because the more of it it soaks in, the

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more slowly it's released, it still moves downhill, but it

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moves downhill underground, where it's got friction, all

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sorts of things, slowing it down, it's getting filtered. And

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it when it comes out, it comes out in springs and those springs

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are usually the bottoms of valleys are actually in the

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bottoms of creeks and rivers. They call that base flow like

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you know the water in the river, some of it isn't coming from

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upstream, it's actually coming out of the ground. And that's

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why streams keep getting bigger and bigger without tributaries.

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Right. So so that's the good water. That's the best water

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because it's coming to us year round. And we need water year

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round is coming to us clean, it's coming into the rivers cold

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which keeps the streams healthy for things like drought. And

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it's not doing any damage. You know, it's it's, it's it's sweet

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and clean and sustain. The stuff that runs off is the stuff you

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got to worry about. Some water is always going to run off in

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the spring. But a lot of it runs off in the summer too when

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you've got an unhealthy landscape because if the soil is

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hardened, the vegetation is being cut or disturbed. And so

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those hardened then water is sort of soaking in runs off. And

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because it runs off, it's running off fast because it's

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fast. It's got energy, it's picking up dirt, so it doesn't

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just run off, it runs out dirty. It picks up that silt is soil is

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supposed to stay where it was. It's not doing any good once

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it's in the stream. All it does is it plugs up the gravel for

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the trout and the insects and everything else and then it

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points up our reservoirs and then we wonder why we don't have

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as much water stored as we used to So all of that sort of the

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big picture of why the whole landscape is important, the

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whole landscape is our water reservoir. And the underground

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portion is the most critical part. And the underground

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portion relies on healthy vegetation and healthy soils.

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And those are the things we damage with that land use. And

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certainly with coal mining,

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oh, yeah. Big Sky agriculture and, and coal mining,

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threatening to cut off like coal mountaintops, where snow cannot

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accumulate now and, and melt and run off,

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basically just just turns the landscape into rubble. Yeah, and

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the rubble does not work well for streams. And so so go back

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to your wolf thing. The reason that the wolf story from

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Yellowstone is is significant is that when you don't have a lot

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of predators in the landscape, the grazing animals go to the

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best forage, and that's the riparian areas, and they they

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just camp there, they just keep eating it because it's

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productive, and it's really nutritious, so they just stay

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there. But that kind of attention damages vegetation.

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Once there's wolves in the landscape, wolves are 24, seven

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predators, they're always on the on the lookout, they're always

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coursing through the landscape looking for prey. And so they

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make those elk and those deer very nervous. And, and and, and

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it makes it very unsafe to stay in one spot, because now the

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competitors can target you. So they spread out, and to try and

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avoid the predators. And that takes the pressure off the

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riparian areas. And that means that their vegetation gets

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lesser, and that means those streams get healthier. Yeah. So

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it's kind of cool. I mean, everything is connected. Yeah,

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you know, whether we have the full suite of animals, the

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landscape, how we're using the land, how we're how we choose to

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conserve, those things all affect each other.

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It's so beautiful, and we're part of it, we have to stop

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thinking that we are outside of it and can manipulate and abuse

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it, we are part of it. And if we don't take care of it, we will

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pay the bill. At the end of the day, there's a thing about the

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power of positive thinking, you know, there's the thing about

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just sort of a body of theory about how one manages one same

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mental health, which is that you tend to be what you believe you

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are, you decide in your mind that you're a certain kind of

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person. And then because you've you've seen yourself that way,

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you start to model that and in fact, you become that kind of

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person, so you can be as good or as bad as you choose to be. And

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and that comes to this thing about connections to nature is

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we have got a myth that's coming to us from some of the world's

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great religions that we are separate from nature that we you

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know, in the Christian tradition, you know, we have the

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fall we are exiled from Eden. And that was basically our

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isolation from nature. Well, the the longer that we buy into that

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way of thinking about ourselves, the more we make ourselves

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separate from nature. And the more we become an in effect

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orphans, from everything that makes us who we are. Because we

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are not separate from nature, we are totally wired into nature.

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And everything we do affects it and everything in nature does

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affects us. And until we can see that we derive our identity from

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nature. And that we translated it onto nature, the more that

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we're going to be in disharmony with it and and and the more

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will create the self fulfilling prophecy that we are separate

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nature. And you know, what, if you're separate from nature,

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ultimately you're dead? Because nature sustains everything.

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Yeah. So you know, it's worth thinking through. Oh, totally.

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And

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mental health, like you said, is very much tied into how much

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time do you spend outdoors? And in nature? How much do you

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appreciate the food that you eat? How much do you care about

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your body? And?

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And isn't that interesting? Like, so why is mental health

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tied to that? Kind of answers itself, doesn't it? Yeah, that's

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where we get our that's who we are. Yeah. And if we if we, if

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somehow we fragment who we are. Yeah, there's consequences.

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Yeah. mental, physical. Yeah, cultural.

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Yeah. And on my show here, I invite guys that inspire others.

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And so far, I observe that every, every guy mentioned

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purpose, if you have a purpose, you can get out of addiction. If

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you have a purpose. If you serve the big picture, if you serve

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nature, or humanity, you can get out of depression. And I feel

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for you, like you've been such a strong activist here in Alberta,

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and so engaged and writing one book after the other, to inspire

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people and to wake people up and it gives people a purpose. It

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gives people a sense of living again, and that's what I said at

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the beginning of the show. The episode I was so disappointed to

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see that people don't really care about nature here, but

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through your books and through, yeah, me going outside and

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hiking, I need more and more people who care about Mother

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Nature, I would like to talk a little bit about your book

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because I feel that book is also about your observation like

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people are changing for the better people are realizing and

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waking up. And the stereotype of the oil and gas, redneck a Berta

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person is maybe still present. But there's a bigger group, a

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group of wildness protectors and nature friends out there that is

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growing bigger and bigger.

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I think, you know, it's interesting that I did write my,

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my latest book is really focused on that whole idea about

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creating a different, different story about what it is to be in

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Alberta and of Alberta. And really, that I did create that

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contrast between the stereotype The world has of us of the angry

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entitled redneck in a pickup truck, with a bumper sticker bow

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to tow or something like that, you know, I mean, that's the

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stereotype that the world has about us. And to some degree is

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the stereotype that we have about us, and certainly a

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stereotype that our fingers seems to have about us. And so

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again, you are what you say you are, you create these self

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fulfilling prophecies and, and and to see ourselves that way is

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a very small way of seeing us and really limits our potential

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limit limits our, our potential socially, ecologically and a

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bunch of ways. Having said that, it is part of who we are, a lot

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of us probably fit that category. But that's not all

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that we are as individuals, either, you know, you know,

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sometimes we're angry, sometimes we're frustrated by the fact

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that we don't control our feet that, you know, jobs dried up on

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us, and we've got responsibilities, I mean, all

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those things are our issues that we have to deal with. But they

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don't have to make us just one kind of person. You know,

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personally, I find that if you take somebody fishing or hunting

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or for a hike, it doesn't matter what they're going to have to

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return to during that period of time, they are able to connect

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with nature and connect with each other in different ways, in

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more productive ways, in some ways, in ways that inspire

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solutions to the problems are gonna go home to so yeah. When

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you look at Alberta, holistically, we are a province

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of great people of really connected people we've got,

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we've got in spite of everything we threw at them, the history

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threw at them, we've still got First Nations was very strong

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cultures and very strong connections. And they are

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engaging that with the rest of society in a way that maybe

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wasn't even possible 20 years ago, because of all of the the

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dysfunction on both sides of that equation. We have ranchers

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and farmers that are now into the third and fourth generation

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of figuring out how to live on the land. We've got urban people

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that have determined that their cities are no longer good just

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going to be, you know, warehouses for for human labor,

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but actually actually going to be places to live and create and

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thinking and we've made our cities into beautiful places. I

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remember as a kid like the river valley in Calgary was just a

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place where you dump the old sidewalks, and all the

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industrial lots back down to the river. And that was really

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started the job like you nobody saw that river front as being

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any part of what was important to Calgary. What was important

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to Calgary was to put our imprint on the land and get

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rich. You know, I'm overstating it. But now you look around and

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we've got these beautiful green ribbons of parkland. And they're

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full of people out there connecting with the river with

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their wildlife with one another. cities have become places of

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being. So these are all things that are going on while we are

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letting ourselves be limited by this myth that is just about

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grabbing a bunch of money from underground and using it to buy

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stuff. That's a very limited perspective. And it's a

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perspective that keeps us separate from each other and

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keeps us separate malana keeps us separate from the future

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because the future unfortunately, for Alberta is

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not an oil and gas future. You know, I can get all angry, angry

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and indignant when you hear that but it is simply true. That's

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where the world's going like it or not, don't shoot the

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messenger. This is what's happening. So what does the

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future involve? Don't worry, we've got the future all around

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us. We need to just refocus and see it and then the end the

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future is our environment is the are the are the people that are

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committed to this place and and and creating the next economy

Unknown:

through through various lines of work that are Not just all oil

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and gas. So that's the conversations we need to have.

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You know, I've heard it said that I had an instructor once at

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a management course they took saying, an organization is a

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product of product of its conversations. And really a

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culture is a product of conversations. That's what song

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and music and drama and arts are about. They're basically our

Unknown:

conversations with ourselves, where we simply trying to push

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me into them.

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So if that's the case, then we need to have the right

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conversations. Yeah, we need to have kontaveit conversations

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that expand the landscape of possibilities, not the trinket.

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And that's what I tried to do in my book is to say, here's a

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whole bunch of different ways to see the place to admire the

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place to be inspired by the place to see one another. And I

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tried to stop sort of prescribing, prescribing, and

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I'm saying, and therefore here's what we need to do. But to be

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saying, let's have these broader conversations, and what we need

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to do will emerge from them, but they will not emerge from a

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narrow backward looking, willing gas will save us I get yet

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again. And if it doesn't, it's somebody else's fault. Yeah,

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that will not save us.

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Yeah. No, and this is also something I keep repeating, with

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my people on the show and my listeners that we have to become

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more resilient. Like we are just, we're putting all our eggs

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into one basket, and it's good to be committed to something.

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But if something goes wrong, like Now, a couple of times,

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hitting the recession, with oil and gas, we are thrown off. So

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if we become more diverse, if we become more creative, maybe even

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then there's less stress on nature, but also within

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ourselves, because we know, okay, if one leg breaks off, we

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have three other legs, and we're going to be we're going to be

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fine.

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Right, and of relying on each other again, and yet creating

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communities that that support each other, and not the

Unknown:

individual person who makes the big money and then buys the big

Unknown:

house and the big truck. That's,

Unknown:

yeah, that's interesting. In that vein, it's easy to sort of,

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you know, we talk about the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you

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know, that you know, that, you know, at the bottom, you just

Unknown:

need to have a house food. And when you don't have that, don't

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talk to me about all this other airy fairy stuff, because that's

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what matters to me, right. And that's true. That's, that really

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is true. So so it can be really frustrating to have maybe a

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conversation like this. When you know that your jobs in and next

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month are ended last month, and you've got a mortgage, you got

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kids that are in school, and the kids are stuck at home because

Unknown:

there's a pandemic and there's all these things going on,

Unknown:

right? Well, you know, it's at times like that it's impossible,

Unknown:

really, to imagine the solution and imagine that anything's

Unknown:

gonna get good again, you think about what it was like to be an

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albertan in 1943, middle of the war, right? You just came out of

Unknown:

a depression. All the signs blew away. Everybody's poor. Now all

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the men are overseas fighting, they're going to come back with

Unknown:

PTSD. Meantime, the women are trying to raise kids and keep

Unknown:

the economy going with the economy's just going dumping

Unknown:

money into the war. 1943 you look in the future, what do you

Unknown:

see, you see no hope at all, because everything around you

Unknown:

tells you there is no, in 1984, I was marched into a room with

Unknown:

another 30 or 40 people and told that all of our jobs ended in

Unknown:

coming March. We had a mortgage 16 and a half percent interest

Unknown:

rate. This was the 1980s the interest was other other

Unknown:

control. The housing market was dropping, we put every penny we

Unknown:

had into that house. My wife was pregnant. With our first kid, it

Unknown:

was bloody awful. Because all of a sudden, not only was I going

Unknown:

to be unemployed, but I was surrounded with other people

Unknown:

that would be unemployed. So was that gonna be one of those jobs?

Unknown:

Or were they and I was pretty young, right? It was about as

Unknown:

dark as it got. And now it's now 30. And 40 years later, I look

Unknown:

back and I say that was the best thing that ever happened to me.

Unknown:

It was sheer Hell, I remember the walking out of the lawyers

Unknown:

office broke, because we'd sold the house, signed the papers.

Unknown:

And now we are broke because we had to lose money on the host

Unknown:

and loaded. And I found a job but it was only three quarters

Unknown:

of the pay of the previous job. At least I found a job required

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us to move. We had money for gas. So we could do that. And

Unknown:

that was it. It was like a total restart every assumption that

Unknown:

I'd ever had about my life. I'd been actually enrolled in

Unknown:

graduate school at the expense of my employer. It was looking

Unknown:

so good and then it just went the other way round. Right and

Unknown:

It's really actually, I would say, in our culture that's very

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hard on a man in the culture I emerged from, because it really

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was one of the words seen as your responsibility to support

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the family and everything like that. And really, Gil was, at

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that point, not going to be too employable, because she was

Unknown:

gonna have a baby, right. And that takes a certain amount of

Unknown:

time and focus. So, so that really weighs on you. And so

Unknown:

like I'm saying, you know, I'm just saying this sort of in

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terms of what you were saying about the people that you that

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you're speaking into with this podcast, at times like that, you

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know, where's the future? what hope is there. And yeah, in

Unknown:

retrospect, looking back, that job almost saved me, I think it

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got us out of Edmonton, which wasn't actually working for us

Unknown:

all that well, got me started on a new career path, which was

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actually sustainable, took me into some really great jobs. And

Unknown:

then, as the years unfolded, enabled us to raise our children

Unknown:

back in nature, rather than in the city was a really good test

Unknown:

for Gil and he was one of those ones that sort of allowed us to

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grow as a couple, you know, you get to grow your claps, right.

Unknown:

So, you know, it's the same thing with Alberta I mean, the

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things that happen in our personal lives also happen in

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our socialized in our cultural lives in our community lives.

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And, and in the case of Alberta, right now, we're looking into a

Unknown:

future that's really not looking too promising, because

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everything that we've always taken for granted isn't going to

Unknown:

be taken for granted anymore. But look at we've got more wind

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than anybody else. In Canada, we've got more sun in southern

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Alberta than anybody else in Canada, we've got all this

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beautiful diversity, we've got the Rocky Mountains in the

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foothills, the berries of the Northern forests, all these

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things, we've got all the potential to be everything we

Unknown:

could possibly be. What we need is different compensations and a

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different way of seeing ourselves. And that's really

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like the answer that's very tried to go with wild roses are

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worth it as I've tried to go with my previous books. I don't

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know whether it's a big contribution or a small

Unknown:

contribution, but we all need to be trying to find the way to see

Unknown:

ourselves and see our place differently.

Unknown:

So that we can start to see possibilities differently that

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may be elude us, until we get out of that little stove pipe

Unknown:

that we've locked ourselves thinking in about who we are and

Unknown:

where we are, and expanded a little bit.

Unknown:

So your latest book is about hope and and creating more

Unknown:

resilience, and making people aware of the resources we have.

Unknown:

And we just have to start using them responsibly. and reconnect

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to nature. Did I understand that? Right?

Unknown:

I think so I thought the my latest book is, like I say,

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well, roses are worth it, it's sort of rose on an earlier one

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called our place which are collections of writing so so

Unknown:

they were never purpose written to be a book, they were

Unknown:

assembled to be a book, but when you put all these different

Unknown:

essays together, and so they you know, this can span like, you

Unknown:

know, 1520 years, but you put them together on little bundles,

Unknown:

and the the, the total becomes greater than the sum of the

Unknown:

parts, you know, because because they build on each other, and

Unknown:

they reinforce each other. And so there are ways of looking at

Unknown:

the nature of Alberta, right, like, like understanding and

Unknown:

seeing and being inspired by just the cool things that are

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happening other than the way in which animals and plants and

Unknown:

seasons and cycles connect with each other. And they just the

Unknown:

miraculous stuff that comes out of that, like, I really do think

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the world is absolutely full of magic. So it's basically saying,

Unknown:

so here's some of that. And then the other piece is just sort of

Unknown:

saying, here's some of the big issues that confound us. You

Unknown:

know, we've got issues around groundwater, we the issues

Unknown:

around oil and gas, got issues around creditors, and there's

Unknown:

their you know, so let's try and understand those issues a bit

Unknown:

better, so that we can maybe get to solutions that will work. And

Unknown:

then I think the other thread that turns up here is just

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talking about great Albertans are some wonderful people that

Unknown:

they've got a big essay on Charlie Russell, who has changed

Unknown:

everything in terms of how in terms of what we think is

Unknown:

possible between us and bears. He's got a fascinating story. So

Unknown:

I told him, you know, so So there's all these pieces put

Unknown:

together.

Unknown:

Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, yeah. So when it comes to big decisions,

Unknown:

like there was a huge discussion of vaccines, and then now with

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the residential schools, the horrifying news coming up. When

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it comes to coal mining, when it comes to those big projects

Unknown:

where people say, Yeah, but it's going to create big jobs. It's

Unknown:

going to our community is going to flourish because so much

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money is going to flow into our community.

Unknown:

You What would you

Unknown:

if you had fence sitters sitting in front of you who are still

Unknown:

undecided? What would you say to them? Well, I would say to them

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a few things. They say three things, this won't be

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easy to make sure. One of them is in terms of the economic

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benefits from coal mining. It's interesting that the, you know,

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the, the the communities that are most keen on new coal mines

Unknown:

are in the crow's nest pass in the hinten, area, grande cache

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area. And these are areas with a history of coal mining. And one

Unknown:

of the reasons that they are so eager to see more coal mines is

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because they are all economically stressed. And the

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reason they're economic, these stresses, they built their local

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economies around coal mining, and around the resource

Unknown:

industries that boom and bust as commodity cycles change in the

Unknown:

economy. So one of the things we know with coal mining is that it

Unknown:

creates a lot of money. And then, as soon as the price for

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coal drops the gold global price, which we don't control

Unknown:

drops, the companies abandoned everybody, you know, they, they

Unknown:

groom us, they come into our communities before the coal

Unknown:

mines, and they groom us with money with trees with new golf

Unknown:

courses, new roads, new recreation centers, they do they

Unknown:

spend a lot of money upfront, to make us like them. They get

Unknown:

their approvals, they put in their minds, they send most of

Unknown:

their profits overseas. And as soon as the market dries up,

Unknown:

they walk away from us. And that's why these committees are

Unknown:

so desperate, they want another kick up that cat. But it's just

Unknown:

like Lucy, Lucy in the in the peanuts, cartoons with the

Unknown:

football. Every year, Lucy holds the football every year, Charlie

Unknown:

kicks it every year, Lucy pulls it away, how many times you want

Unknown:

to do that before you realize that you're chasing something

Unknown:

that's not going to work. So So don't tell me about economic

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benefits. There are economic benefits to leaving the

Unknown:

mountains unmined. And those go to cattle ranchers that run

Unknown:

cattle out there, they go to Outfitters and guides and

Unknown:

tourism operators, they go to those of us who are trying to

Unknown:

make a living and other lines of work that just need to escape

Unknown:

once in a while into the mountains. That keeps us here

Unknown:

keeps us from giving up and moving somewhere else. There's

Unknown:

lots of economic benefits that come from the landscape. They

Unknown:

can come from, from it in the way of coal, they can come to it

Unknown:

to us in the way of water, wildlife and fish, cattle,

Unknown:

timber, there's lots of ways to sort of extract economic value.

Unknown:

The question you need to ask is what? When you extract this kind

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of economic value? What are the consequences? Where does it take

Unknown:

us? coal is a dying market, the world is trying to move away

Unknown:

from it. Again, maybe you don't want to hear that. Maybe you're

Unknown:

going to roll roll your eyes and say that's stupid thinking.

Unknown:

Yeah, okay, fine. Don't shoot me for saying it. I'm just telling

Unknown:

you what the world's telling us. And guess what we market into

Unknown:

the world. So we need to pay attention to those messages. One

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thing we do know is our need for water is not going away. And

Unknown:

bituminous coal is in the eastern slopes of the Rocky

Unknown:

Mountains, the foothills of the Rockies. And that's where all

Unknown:

our water comes from. So if it's a choice for our future between

Unknown:

water and coal, Think it through carefully because it is that

Unknown:

choice.

Unknown:

Very, very well said. Thank you so much for making the time and

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yeah, sharing your thoughts here with us. I will make sure to put

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your book in the show notes. And if people have questions, they

Unknown:

can contact you. You have probably like yeah, you have a

Unknown:

website or on Facebook.

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I'm on Facebook and they've got you can always reach me at Kevin

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dot bed. segamat G mail.com.

Unknown:

Yeah, yeah. No, that was very precious. And I'm excited to

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publish this episode. Well, thank you very much for having

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me. Yeah, thank you again for listening to my interview with

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Kevin here. Don't hold back. If you have any questions reach out

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to him, or to me is a big group out there. That is Yeah,

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fighting the good fight to protect our precious waters, our

Unknown:

creeks and rivers and lakes. And I hope we were able to give you

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hope and to raise awareness that we need to protect our

Unknown:

headwaters at all cost. Thank you for listening. And I will be

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