Updated.

In this episode we discuss:

(00:33) Introduction

(03:56) Brittany Higgins

(13:04) Julia Banks

(16:11) Sunshine in the coffee shop

(18:06) Scott Morrison

(21:19) Nativity Plays

(23:21) Catholic Hospitals

(33:16) Peta Credlin

(34:09) Anti Corruption Commission

(37:34) Putin Poo

(38:08) Nurses and Putin

(40:07) Trump Tax Returns

(40:37) Kanye and Alex Jones

(44:41) Adin Ross

(48:44) Young Turks

(51:38) USA Rail Workers

(54:06) Chips

(59:06) France Bans Short Flights

(01:10) Oil Price Cap

(01:03:14) China Trade

(01:04:26) Timor

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We need to talk about ideas, good ones and bad ones.

We need to learn stuff about the world.

We need an honest, intelligent, thought provoking, and entertaining

review of what the hell happened on this planet in the last seven days.

We need to sit back and listen to the Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove.

Well, hello and welcome to your listener.

Yes, the Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove podcast back again for another episode.

We're up to 366.

Joe, the tech guy.

How are you?

I'm good.

Yeah, I'm well.

I'm Trevor the Iron Fist.

I was talking to somebody yesterday.

He thought I was the Velvet Club and I said, no, that's Scott.

So I should clarify.

I'm Trevor the Iron Fist.

Because I've got these hard opinions that come out occasionally.

. Oh dear.

All right.

Yes, episode 366.

I should have mentioned last week, episode 365.

There's one for every day of the year.

So if you want to, if you want a bit of Iron, Fist, Velva Glove, you can have a

new episode every day for an entire year.

If you catch up on the back catalog, it's all there.

Right.

Tonight it's a mixed bag of stuff.

I think on my promo piece that I put out, I said from Kanye to East Timor.

Just one of the difficulties with this show, Joe, is it's such a random ho watch

of different topics that we go through.

It's very hard to identify what the D podcast is about.

It's a lot of things.

General news and stuff Yeah.

And stuff.

So there will be initially stuff about Australian news and politics, by the way.

I've been putting chapter marks on these podcasts for the last couple of weeks.

So if you're listening through Apple Podcasts or through a half decent podcast

app, you should see chapter marks.

And if you wanna skip through segments and or you wanna repeat

a segment, you can do that.

So Australian using politics to begin with, Bri

Higgins, if he wants to play a segment for your

friends, yes, you could do that too.

Makes it easy for him.

Brittany Higgins, Julia Banks more about crazy Christians.

Governor General's wife will have another song.

There'll be a trigger warning.

Just before that Morrison was censored.

Catholic Hospitals, actually, that's a lengthy one about just what is going

on in so called public hospitals that are observing Catholic principles

and making life physical for women.

And then we'll move on.

Putin's poop Trump's tax return.

Kanye.

Joe, did you see Kanye on the, isn't he just Yay now?

Just yay.

Did you see him on Alex Jones's?

I had to stitch together a few clips.

I have to admit I burst out laughing as I was doing it at different times.

It was a very funny if you, you just, was he intending to be funny?

No, you've gotta take the view.

He's obviously mentally disturbed.

He's not running on all cylinders, and so I'm just prepared to cut

him slack as being not, not fully mentally capable in actual fact.

Mm-hmm.

. But the funny part is Alex Jones trying to tone somebody down.

And

yeah, trying to stop him embracing the neo-Nazi quite so much.

Exactly.

But he just keeps jumping in.

In fact, not even

neo-Nazi, just pure

Nazism and just the frustration and dismay on Alex Jones.

It really is.

It's interesting.

I'll get through a few other things.

We'll end up in the Timor gap and the Timor see there.

So that's the plan.

If you're in the chat room, say hello, what is there?

And anyone else who's in the chat room, say hello, let us know that you're there.

Joe, terrible situation with Britney Higgins and the trial

being aborted because somebody on the jury was bringing in external.

And they've decided for her mental health, it's no point in, well, it's just not,

it's dangerous from a health point of view for her to continue with the trial.

Mm-hmm.

. So terrible situation.

But, and you can't really talk too much about it because if you

get into the woods on that chances of defaming what's his name?

Bruce Leman are too high.

So we won't get into too much about what happened.

Steer clear of that.

Yeah.

I mean, I just think there's a lot of backlash.

That's, it doesn't matter that he hasn't had a trial.

He's guilty as all hell.

And I'm thinking the man deserves a fair trial.

Everyone deserves a fair trial.

And if he's prosecuted and convicted, fine, but until that happens, and

if that can't happen because of her mental health, well, That's a very

sad thing.

It's unsatisfactory all around.

Yes, yes.

Very.

So, you know, sort of, I guess bring, what, what you could say

is, could there be some facility?

She's already given her evidence, she's been cross-examined.

Surely at some level that could all best be replayed for a new jury to some extent.

Yeah, I think it would only be transcripts, wouldn't it?

It's not gonna be recorded.

Well, you know, maybe it should, maybe this sort of thing is a case

that shows that evidence perhaps should have been recorded and, and

basically that evidence presented to a fresh jury in a recorded format.

I don't know, but I,

I yeah, I mean, there, there's been recent cases where there has been

a lot of media retention front.

And cameras were in the courtroom.

And it was quite fortunate because what the media, what the press

were reporting didn't reflect what actually went on in the courtroom.

Right.

And, and I think more and more people are going for justice to be done.

Justice needs to be seen, to be done.

And, and we do deserve to have access to this and not just for those who can

take the time off work, travel to the court and sit in the public gallery.

Normally, cases like this are you, the evidence is not disclosed, but I

think she waived the right to that.

Yeah.

This case,

quite often, there's certain aspects of the evidence, basically

sensitive aspects that would be held in camera, as in with nobody in

the ju, nobody in the public area.

But I think that a lot of the surrounding

evidence Yep.

Cause you'd quite enjoyed tuning in on the Johnny Depp trial and following all that.

So you like the idea of being able just to log on, watch trial?

I, I, I, I

think we've come to realize that there are vested interests

driving narratives mm-hmm.

, and they don't necessarily reflect on what's, what's actually happening.

And I think it's important to be able to see, to, to look at the underlying

evidence yourself, because unfortunately you, you're supposed to be able to

trust the press to report accurately.

And I know in the UK they have a legal obligation.

I presume they do overhear.

And possibly it was less around the reporting and more around the op-eds,

but yes, unsatisfactory all around and maybe worth looking at some

solutions where evidence is recorded.

Mm-hmm.

and replayed either in front of a jury or perhaps in a situation like this.

A first trial with no jury, just a judge, and as a way of getting a resolution where

if there's a problem with a jury not being able to fully get a grip of what happened,

then perhaps a judge can be relied on.

I don't know.

Well, we have, we

have a legal right to a trial of your peers.

Mm-hmm.

. Yeah.

No solution on that one.

Anyway, Mike Colton and Crikey were talking about one aspect of Bruce

Leman, unrelated to the allegation was, He was a senior advisor to Defense

Industries Minister Linda Reynolds.

Allegedly he was on $200,000 a year.

He was 23 and he hadn't finished his degree.

So he was just an unqualified 23 year old in the defense minister's

office earning 200,000 a year.

Amazing.

And expensive town Canberra.

What's that?

It's an expensive town.

Canberra.

Yeah, . So this is from Crikey, according to his police interview,

he'd been working with the coalition government since 2013 election that

made him just 18 when he stepped into Canberra's Halls of power in March,

2019 when he allegedly raped Higgins.

He was working in the office of Senator Linda Reynolds.

He was 23 and he was a senior advisor.

He told police he was Reynold's most senior staffer at 23, and he said, I

was in the WhatsApp group chat with all the other chiefs of staff, including

John Kunkel from the PM's office.

His ministerial role involved everything from liaising with your commissioner

at the Australian Federal Police, AIO handling estimates processes, as well as

parliamentary policy, national security.

He had relevant security clearances to deal with that, including signing for

AIO briefs and the home affairs briefs.

And at the bar at the dock bar where he'd been invited for drinks on

the night of the alleged incident.

It mean individuals who he recognized as a decom, the various ministers, and

it was basically a shindig attended by defense officials full of defense

contractors or one be defense contractors.

Alcohol fuel Night unfolded.

All the movers and shakers Luman says were very keen to make themselves known to him.

A lot of these people were wanting to introduce themselves and he also

explaining the apparently mystical job of ministerial advisor police.

He said he understood the gravity of his role.

Among other things.

He had been working on the submarine issue, a likely reference to

the multi-billion dollar French nav group contract, which was

going pear shaped at the time.

And he prepared question time briefs.

Joe, I'd been banging on about the submarines for seven and a half years.

No wonder the whole thing is a mess.

We've got 23 year olds running the show.

Mm-hmm.

like, look, he doesn't, according to his resume, it, I mean, it's possible

for a 23 year old to be some brilliant.

Person potentially.

I guess it'd be a pretty rare egg, but gee, lack of life experience.

I remember what a deal I was at 23.

Like we thought that you'd be put in some responsible position like this.

So little experience about life.

It's just you'd been there for five years.

What more do you need?

Yeah, just just no wonder the decision making is as poor as it has been

when you've got young pups of 23 with no qualifications run in the show.

I, I

do wonder though, the 200 k how many hours they actually work for

that Crazy hours.

No doubt.

Yeah.

I mean it's, it's interesting.

We pe yeah, we, we hear these figures banded.

and then you actually look at it and it's 80 hour weeks.

So they're effectively working two

jobs.

Mm-hmm.

. Yep.

So, it's like we've got an advertisement popped up, Joe . Mm-hmm.

. So, Roman in the chat room says there are lots of people like him

working in ministerial offices.

When I was in a Victorian public servant, when I was a Victorian public servant, we

used to call them the pointy shoe brigade.

So there we go.

All right.

Just on the submarines Australia, under this new labor government

seems to be still keen on buying American nuclear submarines.

And I saw this tweet from a guy that said, let's just cut out the middle man.

Australia's nuclear submarines should be built in the US crude by US Navy

soldiers paid for by US taxpayers based in the US and sail under the US flag.

That's a good idea.

Let's cut out the middle man.

Right.

Julia Banks.

Former liberal mp.

So when the marriage equality legislation was passed in 2017, she

was one of the few one of seven mps who voted for it without any amendment.

A liberal show in the sense of an old fashion, true liberal, yes.

Mm-hmm.

. So that was in 2017, marriage Equality.

And soon after, in 2018, she says in this article in the New Daily,

it seemed that the floodgates had been opened as new liberal members

started entering my electorate.

And social media research revealed that many of them were self-declared

Pentecostal Mormons or from minor ripening parties such as family First.

Resurgence in membership coincided with rumors swirling that members of

the religious right were mobilizing to challenge me and other moderates

at the upcoming pre-election ahead of the 2019 federal election.

So, which Alleg was this?

Excuse me, Victoria.

So, okay.

Yeah.

The federal seat in Victoria.

In March, 2018, the Victorian State Council meeting reminded her of

an image of Morrison that surfaced when he was raising his hands at a

prayer gathering of Pentecostals.

But the state council meeting wasn't held in a church, but it just

reminded her of being in a church.

She said busloads of people arrived.

Some of the party faithful like me were shocked at these arrivals.

I asked one of my fellow moderate colleagues who they were, and he

answered the Mormons Pentecost, the religious right, you know,

the stacks, which we short for.

Branch stacked members like school kids on an excursion, they were all

handled, handed a cardboard lunchbox of sandwiches, which were reserved

for these bus passengers only.

And as if in exchange for a lunch and a free bus ride, their vote was

intended to ensure that the right wingers of the party were elected

to all the important positions.

Fast forward to 2022 and she says the Victorian liberal party's state election

campaign was dominated by tax and negativity, bolstered by the Murdoch.

Press shock me.

Yeah.

And she said, yet every day we were learning that the liberals had

pre-selected or preferred racist misogynist, the ultra religious homophobes

or anti-vax, or climate climate deniers.

So, so there we go.

Confirmation of all the things we've been saying.

And she was at a liberal party, a.

Conference and just busloads of them arriving with a pre-packed lunch bag.

You're these people.

Yeah.

There's no hope for the liberal party.

They're done and dusted.

They, they,

it has to be said.

They're better at organizing than we.

The secularists are, are indeed.

They know all about teamwork.

So look, just speaking of crazy religion people content warning, the

Governor General's wife, this latest one, they're popping up everywhere.

I, I really wanna see one of her who hooping while reading the Bible.

I haven't seen any video of that.

If somebody can see you, let me know that on fans, I dunno about that.

And this one, she's in a coffee shop and basically just costs the people

in the coffee shop and forces them to get up and, and start singing.

And of course you know what the tune will be.

I got someone else in mind.

My sunshine, sunshine, you make me happy when I'll stop there.

It goes on.

She makes people sing three verses and the middle verse, you have to

look at the person beside you and you face each other and you sing to

each other in a very personal way.

And then in the third verse, it's back to we're all part

of a group and all the rest.

So, so, Hey Joe, do you wanna put the chat back up on the screen or

or is it Yeah, it should be fine.

Yeah.

Okay.

So yes, that was the governor General's wife.

You're not even safe in a coffee shop.

She'll start a sing along.

It

reminds me of the happy clappers on the plane.

You remember that

video?

Yes.

It was like a hostage situation, two group, and they started firing

up with their guitar and mm-hmm.

plane had to put up with it.

Yeah.

Yes.

I think Shane had some ideas what, what she would've done

as cabin crew on that flight.

So pressurize the

plane, limit the number of oxygen musks.

Yeah.

So, okay.

Scott Morrison, he was censored, censored in parliament and I think actually

surely sensored rather than censored.

Yeah, sensored.

And let me find the clip.

One of the things about listening to Scott Morrison.

These days, it's so nice.

When you hear his voice and you think, thank God we don't have to listen

to that every night on the news.

So here is a little bit of what he had to say when he was being

hauled over the coals for secretly signing up for different ministries.

But if there was one line in the speech today by the man now known

in Parliament, simply as the member for Cook, that drew Audible gasps

from those present, it was this.

Had I

been asked about these matters at the time, at the numerous press conferences

I held, I would've responded truthfully about the arrangements I had put in place.

Are there any other portfolios that you assumed any control over?

Not to my recollection, Ben.

I'm, I'm, I'm pursuing that, so health finance resources,

that is my understanding.

But if that, if that is, if there's anything different to that, then

I'm, you know, then I'm, I'm happy for that to be disclosed.

So, so two things.

Had I been asked.

About the secret things I was doing, I was doing totally truthful.

Yeah, that's right.

It's your fault for not asking me about the things that I was keeping secret.

Mm-hmm.

and then enough evidence to show, even when it all blew up, he couldn't,

he claimed to not know which ones he was a he'd signed up for anyway.

So even if somebody did say, are you secretly signing yourself up as a minister

in different capacities, he would've gone, oh, I dunno, I'll get back to you.

What classic Scott Morrison didn't, yeah.

Did not pass master with anybody.

So, but you know, when you do hear him talk, you think, oh, thank God I

don't have to put up with that anymore.

So that's Scott Morrison.

Hello to Allison, who's just joined us in the chat room as well.

There we go.

All the, you know, he did do one thing with these special ministries.

He He canceled that gas drilling off the coast of Sydney, not because he

is necessarily against gas drilling, it's just that it was a particular

electorate that he was keen to shore up and that's gonna end up in court one day.

The drilling company behind that is going to say, hang on a minute.

The minister that we thought was responsible was

willing for us to go ahead.

And it turned out the minister that we didn't know anything about

was the one who decided that we weren't gonna be allowed to drill.

So that will end up in court one day, see what happens.

And it was a pathetic conga line of liberal mps who then walked past Morrison

as they exited the Parliament House and shook his hand and patted him on

the bat and said, good on you, Scott.

We're still your friend.

It was just apathetic.

What a rebel.

What an absolute rebel.

So that was Scott Morrison and we are nearly done with religious stuff.

Just got one more for you.

I really like these guys talking kids, and I'll just play you something

because we've got lots of Christmas things happening around the place.

You might be invited to Carols by candlelight at your local school or,

or, or maybe even a nativity play.

So, if you are watching a nativity play keep this one in mind.

Colin from Portsmouth is on the line.

Hello, Colin.

I am disgusted, absolutely disgusted.

What's happened now, Colin?

My grand's primary school are doing their nativity play, right?

But the school's gone woke, of course.

Oh no, not another school gone woke.

What they doing, Colin?

They're having a pregnant migrant woman crossing a border with

our husband, who isn't even.

And we are supposed to be happy that they're given a warm place to stay.

Well, that is the nativity story, isn't it, Colin?

That's quite accurate.

Oh, you'd love it if the Bible told us to be nice to refugees, wouldn't you?

That would suit your Ramona agenda down to the ground.

They're brainwashing our kids.

And Richie Green Fingers Son Act is doing nothing.

What role is your grandson playing?

Colin?

What part?

The donkey.

The donkey.

That's lovely.

The biblical version of a small boat crossing the channel.

I've gotta tell him on the day.

Son, you refuse to take him.

Yeah.

Show a bit of backbone.

Unlike this wo tofu eating, Maia, we call the uk.

Tell Gary, bloody Linea and James O'Brien.

We are not rolling over.

Where is a herd when you need one, Colin?

Well, you say what you like about one of the most tyrannical

rulers in the ancient world, but at least he'd bring in ID cards.

Anyway, Anthony, thanks having me on.

Love to the family.

Love to the family.

Colin.

Love to the family.

That's stable.

Spot.

You good for?

Where's a herd when you need one?

. They're good.

James had a good comment in the chatroom.

He said, will the drilling companies complaint be that they should be

compensated for lobbying fees for the hours spent lobbying the wrong minister.

That's good, James.

I like that one.

That is good.

Yeah.

Nativity plays and end

Dear.

All right.

Catholic Hospitals this is from the abc.

This is a long article, but it's, it's very instructive and, you

know, we bang on about schools a lot with religious instruction lessons.

Mm-hmm.

and we bang on about chaplains, but we probably don't bang off bang on enough

about what's going on in hospitals.

So,

hospitals and nursing homes.

Both, I

think.

Yeah.

So, okay.

It began with a simple request from a patient, an interuterine device.

I U d I wrote up the report for her GP recounts, the patient's doctor

who worked at one of Australia's public, public Catholic hospitals.

But then I was called over by my supervisor who told me to change the

wording and say that we were supplying the i u D for acne rather than birth control.

And the doctor was shocked at first time this sort of thing had ever happened.

And on the surface, the hospital is an ordinary public hospital in a

big city, but like 20 other public hospitals around the country, it's

run by a Catholic code of ethics.

Is that an oxymoron?

Joan?

Code of ethics, A Catholic code of ethics.

I think you can have a code of ethics even if it doesn't align

with other people's.

Right.

Okay.

You just can't have a good Catholic code of ethics perhaps, but yeah.

This code, which applies to both public and private Catholic hospitals advises

against contraception, pregnancy termination, ivf, voluntary assisted

dying, and even the provision of abortion medication to rape victims in

sexual and reproductive health matters.

The responsibility of Catholic healthcare is to give counsel, which is both

medically accurate and to witness to the teachings of Christ and his church.

So the code says so workers have to speak anonymously for fear

of losing their job and confirm that workarounds are widespread.

And one of them said how time consuming and embarrassing it was.

To have to ask GPS to rewrite i u d referrals so that they're

not for birth control, but for something like a heavy period.

So a lot of the records are completely false and there's so

much fudging of documentation.

It's difficult to see what's going on in the health system.

All the data is meaningless.

There's a Melbourne woman, Leslie, she had precancerous cells lasered off her cervix,

which meant removing her copper i u d.

But when she asked to be replaced, hospital could only offer a

hormonal i u d as they can be used to treat heavy periods.

And she didn't want a hormonal i u d cuz she'd had a bad reaction in the past.

She wanted a copper one.

So in order to get a copper i u d inserted, she had to bring it herself.

Another day.

Around 10% of hospitals in Australia are Catholic run, but for maternity

and gynecological care, they're some of our most influential players.

And there was a Melbourne mum who was having excruciating menstrual

periods, and this was happening sort of 12 days out of 18.

Very, very painful.

A doctor proposed a procedure called end endometrial ablation that could end her

period forever, which would be great.

The only problem was if she happened to fall pregnant, it would be extremely

dangerous, but she didn't mind.

The doctor said she should get her tubes tied as a precaution,

that way you won't fall pregnant while you have this condition.

And she was happy cuz she'd finished having children.

And normally it would all be done in one operation.

Get the end endometrial ablation and get your tubes tied at the same time.

But guess what The Catholic hospital said no can do.

You'll have to have.

Two separate surgeries at two different hospitals.

And so she's a single mom.

She'd have to find care for her children.

She'd have to recover twice.

And there's always a risk Joe in operations.

Mm-hmm.

and aesthetic and all the rest of it.

You don't undergo two operations if you can do it in one

hit, it's not good practice.

No.

So eventually behind the scenes to get around this, they had to get another

surgeon into the operating theater.

So one did the ablation and the other one S tube allegation.

Yes.

They they just changed over during the middle of the operation.

Mm-hmm.

now crazy.

There's stories in this about women who there's a problem with

the fetus where they need to.

Have something done urgently.

But the hospital's kind of saying, well, well, as a heartbeat, we are going to

not do anything until the mother is in real serious life threatening trouble.

Even though we know that is going to happen.

It's just a matter of days and stories of staff having to say to women, check

yourself out of here and go to the hospital down the road because we can't

do anything for you, and you're gonna get really sick, and this hospital is not

gonna treat you until you are really sick.

It's insane.

Joe, there was an Indian

woman in Dublin who died from a repair and the last couple of years.

Yes.

Because they refused to give her an abortion Yes.

Until she was septic.

Yep.

Because the fetus had died, it was dead and rotting inside her

and they wouldn't have bought it.

Must have still had a heartbeat of some sort.

Did I?

I don't

know.

I'm not, I can't remember the details, but I do remember that.

Yeah.

Yes.

So, so a series of just horror stories of this type in this article, it's in the

show notes, which all the patrons get.

And of course you know, the junior doctors in the system don't get experience in

dealing with procedures that they should be getting experience with because

the hospital is avoiding these things.

And it's a frightening tale of what's going on in these hospitals.

And we are supporting these hospitals with taxpayer money.

And it's just going on so, well, I mean,

Wasn't it Perth?

Mm-hmm.

, the only public hospital in town is.

Catholic hospital and they actually had to build a separate unit with

a separate entrance round the back to provide medical care that the

Catholic hospital wouldn't provide.

Mm-hmm.

. So it was terminations and I'm not sure

what else.

Yeah, yeah.

So there's a group children by Choice, take calls from women all over Queensland.

Mm-hmm.

, and apparently in Brisbane there's a problem if you're on the south side

because the majority of hospitals on the south side are operating

under this Catholic code of ethics.

And what they're having to do in many cases is help women fudge their

address to be a North side address so they can go to the Royal Hospital

on the north side to get treatment because the south side is such a mess.

What.

Insanity.

We've got a labor state government full of women at the top who

handed over the MARTA Children.

Yeah.

To the, well, sorry.

They decided to build the new children's hospital on MARTA grounds, and I believe

there's some deal that after whatever it is, 99 years, they hand the whole

thing back to the MARTA Hospital.

Right.

Yeah.

It's

currently run by Queensland Health.

Yep.

But at the end of that lease, it's handed

back to them.

Yeah.

So I think in the secular world, I know that you know, the Rationalists

Association are doing a lot with prayers and parliament and the schools.

Mm-hmm.

, you just don't make enough noise about the hospital system

and it's the next frontier.

I think so Let me see.

Oh, just in Victoria.

Sorry.

You wanna say something?

I was gonna say I actually go to the martyr for my Crohn's

and they've been excellent.

But, but I'd rather it was a state run facility than indeed a, a

religious facility that happens to get government funding to look

after me.

Indeed.

Yeah.

Fiona Park, pat in Victoria.

So for the past eight years, she's represented the northern suburbs

of Melbourne home to the St.

Vincent's Hospitals and many of the women zoned to the Mercy Hospital for women.

And earlier this year, she introduced a bill that would stop public Victorian

public hospitals from refusing procedures on religious grounds.

Her bill did not affect the right for individual healthcare workers

to refuse to provide services.

If it went against their conscience, it just stopped hospitals having

blanket bans, but it was voted down by the Dan Andrews government.

Ms.

Patton believes the government did not want to attract controversy

so close to an election.

That's disappointing.

Yeah.

Well, hopefully

they can revive it now that he's convincingly won.

Yes, hopefully.

Ah, so it's quite a long and lengthy article from ABC News, but worth reading.

It was,

it was the Catholic ethicist who says that Fiona's bill was

undemocratic and undesirable.

So apparently Democratic is funding private institutions to enforce

their rules on public patients.

Yeah.

Yep.

Right.

Just briefly back on.

The liberals in the Victorian election there was an article by Peter, Peter

Credlin in the Australian, and there's just one sentence that stuck out, which

was the problem with the liberals main election pitch to spend 20 billion more on

hospitals and to cut all public transport fairs to just $2, was that it didn't

particularly reflect liberal values large

L liberal, not

small l liberal.

So problem was didn't, the policy didn't reflect they were two kinds poor people.

Exactly.

And that doesn't

reflect the liberal

party.

Maybe the problem was Yeah, yeah.

It's obvious.

Okay.

National anti-corruption commission, so, One's been established now

passed through the parliament.

Bit of haggling at the end, but on the whole seems to be a pretty good result.

We've been asking for a federal IAC for a long time.

You have Joe, one of your favorites.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And fairly broad jurisdiction.

They can make findings, refer stuff to the dpp, can initiate their own

investigations, as well as respond to whistleblowers, are able to

investigate potential wrongdoing and stuff that occurred retrospectively.

Yeah, that's the critical one,

isn't it?

Although, referring people off to the afp.

Mm-hmm.

, which it's been alleged, is just a puppet of the liberal.

Well, it's still the federal police director of public prosecutions.

I mean, DPP is different, but yeah.

Yeah.

So either one, I guess.

Yes.

Retrospective stuff that will be interesting.

I'm gonna talk a bit later about Australia's behavior regarding East

Timor and in particular Alexander Downer and some of the stuff that happened.

So, but the

persecution of people who brought that to the subject public attention.

Yes.

And, you know, the benefits that flowed to certain oil companies and then the

people who ended up getting jobs with those same oil companies would be very

fertile ground for a group like this.

So the retrospective one's great.

They'll be busy for years.

If you're a young lawyer and you want a job for the next 20

years, sign up for that one,

although didn't famously What was the Queensland anti-corruption?

I dunno what the name of it was.

No, no.

The inquiry.

Oh, you mean following James?

Yes.

Yeah.

Didn't

Fitzgerald say he would never do such a thing again?

It it took such a toll

on him.

Yes.

Yeah.

Mind you, he was getting on and it was a big job and he was the head of it.

But yeah.

Anyway, there's plenty of work.

There is what I'm saying.

It's billion industries.

So the problem, if there is a problem is that the power to hold public hearings

is only under exceptional circumstances when they are in the public interest.

And even what you said earlier, Joe, about wanting to see all sorts of

criminal trials available online.

Justice needs to be seen to be done.

Mm.

Yep.

So it should be the other way around where it's gonna be public.

Unless there's a very, very good reason why it shouldn't be, I would've thought.

Yep.

Because of some national security interest.

Yeah.

Which should be determined by somebody independent anyway.

That's a good result except for that minor part, but you know, you can't have

everything I guess so yeah, they've got a few, you know, if they did nothing

else in their first six months, the Labor Party just sort of getting that done.

Not bad.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Add to it, they actually got a meeting with ing, our premier trading

partner and a few other things they've been up to, but they've done.

Okay.

Still lots more they could do.

Did you hear the rumor that That Russian president Putin pooped his pants.

Well, apparently, you know, all, all great world leaders

seems to be a thing, doesn't it?

Yes.

Yeah.

Tweet by emergency and bushfire kids said that it may not have happened,

but if it did, I think it was on the bed that Trump pissed on for a full

circle of dictator feces and Rine gross.

Fuck Weasy.

So, yeah, I thought,

I thought it was the prostitutes that pissed on the bed, not Trump.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah.

Well, yeah.

Anyway.

Ah, speaking of Putin, there's a battle going on in the UK over nurses

wages, nurses wanna pay increase, and you're thinking, yes, well,

what's that got to do with Putin?

And I.

A cabinet minister in the UK Parliament said, nurses must drop their pay demands

to send a clear message to Putin that we're not gonna be divided in this way.

That's one of the arguments why nurses

has he come from the 1970s?

One of the arguments because, because the Soviet Union used

to prop up the labor movements.

Right.

So historically that was the talking point that the unions were stooges for Russia.

Yeah.

So I wonder if this is just a leftover from the Cold

War.

It's a slightly different argument.

Well, he just grasping at straws when he's saying, probably we wanna send a mo

a message to Putin, see how tough we are.

We can even deny nurses a reasonable wage increase.

So you better not cross.

Yeah, he is, I believe the English term is aoc Womble.

Yeah, he was doing it to show unity, basically.

Look at us Putin, we'll deny nurses and they will embrace that denial

because we are all, all working together as one against our enemies.

Including you.

That's the argument.

Yeah.

Okay.

Trump's tax returns.

So apparently Trump's been hiding these for seven years and they're now been made

available and the relevant authorities are working their way through them.

And Joe, I said before that, you know, the federal anti-corruption commission mm-hmm.

would be a growth industry.

I think people trolling through Donald Trump's tax

returns looking for legal work.

That's also a growth industry.

Can you imagine what's gonna come outta this?

All, he smokes

all the payments to the prostitutes to be on the bed.

Yes.

He would've been claiming them as a tax deduction.

Yeah, I reckon business is expense.

Yeah.

Right.

You didn't see, I'm gonna keep calling him Kanye, just because is that

offensive to just ignore his Yay.

Probably.

You're probably dead naming him.

I don't know.

I dunno.

Kanye.

Yay.

Anyway, he was on the Alex Jones show and he was wearing this weird face mask over

his head, so you couldn't see him at all.

It was like, imagine a Bella claver without the eyes and

the nose and the mouth cut out.

Like I, it's like a giant sock over his head.

Imagine that and.

There is ranting about how good Hitler was and Alex Jones, even

Alex Jones is thinking, I've gotta turn this guy back a bit.

I've gotta help him mine this back.

And as you're watching this, towards the end, you'll see this guy, fus Fuentes was

the guy I mentioned a couple of weeks ago.

Another far right.

Crazy guy.

And he's just giggling at this cuz he's loving it cuz he's so antisemitic.

S so just as you're listening to this take into appreciation

that Alex Jones is, is kind of the reasonable character in this.

And and it's very interesting.

I'll play.

You're not Hitler, you're not a Nazi.

You don't deserve to be called that and demonized.

Well, I, I see, I, I see good things about Hitler, also, the Jew.

I love everyone.

And Jewish people are not gonna tell me, you can love you know us

and you can love what we're doing to you with the contracts, and you

can love what we're, you know, what we're pushing with the pornography.

But this guy that invented highways invented the very microphone

that I use as a musician.

You can't say out loud that this person ever did anything good.

And I'm done with that.

I'm done with the classifications.

Every human being has something of value that they brought to the

table, especially Hitler, the most Nazi like activities I've seen.

And, and the Nazis in my view were thugs that shut people down to a lot of really

bad things, but they did good things too.

We're gonna stop dissing the Nazis all the time.

Okay, well, CNN says why people are evil Nazis.

So, I mean, I, I disagree with both statements, but I get the, yeah, I

don't like the word evil next to Nazis.

I think we need to look at . Oh my goodness.

Just because you don't like one group doesn't mean the, but look, I love Jewish

people, but I also love Nazis . Oh man.

Well, I have to disagree with that.

I don't think Hitler was a good guy.

I get the the Hugo Boss uniforms.

Amazing.

But I mean, just cuz you're in love with the design, you're a designer.

Can we just kinda say you like the, you like the uniforms, but that's about it.

No, we, we, no, I, there's a lot of things that I love about Hitler.

A lot of

things.

Well, at least he made the trains for a long time.

Wasn't that the old trope?

He, he.

Made the trains

run on time.

He made Hitler made the trains run on time.

Yeah.

Cameron, my Riley had this saying, say what you like about Hitler,

but at least he killed Hitler.

No, that's true.

Look, yay has got mental health issues.

So, he's, his, his handlers should be protecting him.

But they're not, it wasn't him.

You didn't see his face.

You can't prove it was him.

He wasn't

there.

Yeah.

So

it might have been miscellaneous who made the trains run on time.

Yes.

Yeah.

Ah, okay.

It might have been mis well they'll be mentioned of miscellaneous in a moment.

Let me just let me just run through my notes here.

So, yeah.

So when Alex Jones is a voice of sanity, the conversation has gone into the

abyss and What else did I have on here?

So that's, you know, how America has descended and yeah.

People are trying to explain this and figure it out in America.

So there was, there's this guy Aiden Ross, , he is some sort of YouTuber type

guy and he's trying to figure things out and he's thinking, what does fascism mean?

And so he googles while he is online doing a live stream actually, and

says, So the, the relevant part on, on the Googles is fascism is a far

right authoritarian, ultranationalist, political ideology and movement

characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militar forceable,

civil suppression of opposition.

So this guy though, when he looks this up and is live streaming it to people

and wanting to sort of talk about what is fascism, sees that definition in

Wikipedia, and here's what he's doing.

What does a fascist li?

It means you are a far right authorization on you.

Ultra.

Ultra.

Ultra, oh my God.

Ultra, an analyst, political ideology, movement characterized by dictator,

leadership, centralized auto Caity militar for forcible suppression.

Suppression of opposition.

I don't know what that means, right?

I swear to God, I don't know what the fuck Aism is.

I don't know what the fuck that is.

Benito Mazuli and GI Gentile and Jason Stanley.

Like, who the fuck are these people, bro?

Never heard of my fucking life.

What is an example of a fastest yo?

Right, bro.

See what I'm saying, Chad?

Like, this is why I don't fuck with y'all, bro.

Like, dude, like this is what the fuck.

I don't, bro.

I don't fuck with y'all, bro.

The Benito MA reference was to Benito Masini, of course.

So it just sort you know, when the education level

is so poor amongst a large.

Percentage of the population that they can't even Google something and read

it because of the poor education level, then you are really behind the eight

ball in getting your society to function.

So now he's a successful guy making millions of dollars from some social media

type of empire he is got, but struggles to, to read some admittedly above average

difficult words, but doesn't come close to pronouncing, let alone understanding.

So where does society go to when you're dealing with that?

Yeah, I,

I think I grew up in the only part of the British Isles that were invaded

by the Germans, by the Nazis, right?

And so I grew up with the legacies of the Nazi era around and I

was very, very aware of it.

In fact, one of my, my German teacher at school had worked as a

translator during Nure Bogue trials.

Right.

Which was a good way of getting out of a German lesson, was to ask him about

a, his time teaching at the school during the, the, the Nazi occupation,

but also about the trials afterwards.

Right.

Yeah.

And the teacher would launch into stories.

Oh, absolutely.

It's fascinating.

Would be, yeah.

Very

good.

So, so I, to me it's astonishing that people could be that far

removed from it, but Yeah.

If it's not that close to home, if you've not, yeah.

I grew up playing in German bunkers.

Right.

That it'd been built with slave labor.

Yes.

Wow.

So, so, so, yeah.

To me it's very

close to home.

Yeah.

There you go.

Learn something every day about you, Joe.

So here's another clip.

So, Young Turks is a program where they discuss things going on and what

you'll hear is a lady on the Young Turks basically bemoaning what Kanye's saying.

But there is a a this guy Vincent James, who's an antisemitic white,

nationalist, another influencer.

So this is the sort of stuff going on in America the sort of

commentary people are hearing.

Those of you who like me have a problem with Christianity are

gonna love this thing at the end.

Here we go.

I'll play this one.

I mean, they're parading around literally a mentally ill person who is

spewing the most vicious, antisemitic garbage about a man who slaughtered

millions of people, slaughtered them.

I like.

That's what he said.

He said that he liked him.

I just, he did some great things.

What did he do that was so great?

I just can't, I can't with these people.

What's worse slaughtering mil?

One person slaughtering millions of people or a group of people

slaughtering Jesus Christ.

There you go.

Trust a Christian to explain things, Joe.

Yeah.

Or just in maybe you Just an antisemite maybe.

Yeah.

I mean, the problem I have with Young Turks, other than their political

bias, yes, it is the whole of, from what I understand, don't they not

believe in the Armenian genocide?

I think they named themselves the Young Turks before they

understood the Armenian gen.

But, but

I'm fairly sure that he's come out and said that he doesn't believe it.

I'm sure, I think there was a political uff about it.

He may have changed since, but Right.

I thought there was a whole thing about

it.

Okay.

A Holocaust nier, basically.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Wow.

Anyway, what she was saying, even though it was the Young Turks, was

perfectly reasonable of course.

And actually a good point that this guy's got mental health issues.

But yeah, the commentator was oh, what's worse group of people killing Jesus?

Just state the world.

Dear listener, this podcast is getting depressing again.

Can I improve things?

As long as you don't, they, governor

General's

wife, We're in hard times.

Much sadness in all day.

Look out in the end, we'll be

okay.

You wanna be, you might get a copyright strike

in the end.

We'll be okay.

Sorry, in the chatroom.

Should have had a warning anyway.

Can I cheer you up?

Oh, well, you know, in the UK we have the railway sort of strikes happening.

Mm-hmm.

and, oh, I can't remember the name of the guy in charge of the

railway union, but Nick Lynch, I think it is, speaks really well.

Mm-hmm.

, is it Mc Lynch?

Really, really well.

I remember, but sounds familiar.

Yeah.

So different story happening in America according to Chris Hedges.

So, Back in 1926, there was some severe rail strikes.

So back then, the federal government passed the railway Labor Act to

give itself power to impose labor settlements on the rail industry.

And this year, the Biden administration used this authority to broker a

agreement that would ensure a 24% pay increase by 2024 and an annual

thousand dollars bonuses in a freeze on rising healthcare costs.

But workers would be permitted.

Only one paid personal day and no paid sick leave.

So, of the 12 unions involved in the deal, four of them representing

56% of the union membership refused to ratify it, but it was signed

into legislation by Biden Anyway.

Relying on this old 1926 act, apparently the the crewing levels

are so bad that they just can't allow people to take time off.

And so they're just telling them Nope, you're not having any sick days.

And there's evidence where people have worked even when they're sick.

And one guy died because he didn't take time off to get his heart checked

when he was having issues because he wasn't entitled to a sick day.

And subsequently passed away from a heart attack.

So president of the United States lost driving a

train that might have changed

things.

Yeah.

The president of the United States of the Democrats has forced railway workers

into an agreement where they are not allowed a single day of sick leave.

Mm-hmm.

, there we go.

Not getting any better.

Mm.

Ah

chips.

Joan Microchips.

This is an interesting topic that micro these computer chips.

Mm-hmm.

, it's coming like the oil of, of the seventies will be these sort of chips.

You don't

send you that article about chip manufacturing.

I dunno.

It might be the one I'm about to read, possibly see if this sounds familiar.

So a former US National Security Advisor, ambassador Robert O'Brien, uhlin credence

to reports that the US will disable Taiwan's semiconductor chip manufacturing

capabilities if China attempts to reunify the island with the main.

If China takes Taiwan and takes those factories intact, which I don't think

we would ever allow, they have a monopoly over chips the way OPEC has a

monopoly, or even more than the way OPEC has a monopoly over oil O'Brien said.

And apparently the US Army War College Press published a paper in

2021, recommending that the US make credible threats to destroy Taiwan

semiconductor manufacturing company, TSMC facilities, eliminating the most

important supplier of Microprocessing chips to China and the world.

And this paper was the most highly downloaded paper from the US Army War

College and basically suggested a scorched earth strategy in the event that China

actually took action against Taiwan.

Basically blow up.

The chip manufacturing facilities.

Yeah, but

that's not now, that's only in the case of an

attack.

Yeah, well, of course.

I mean, I wouldn't do it now.

I mean, because why do it now when there are other ways of doing it, like

creating your own chip manufacturing industry in the United States.

And so the US has passed the CHIPS Act where it's gonna provide 280 billion in

subsidies to chip manufacturers, as well as technology and research development.

280 billion.

That will get you a fair bit of mm-hmm.

chip development, I would've thought.

So Taiwan's National Security Bureau Director, he denied that These

sort of the scorched earth policy.

And he said basically you wouldn't have to do it because he said

tsm C'S global supply chain is reliant on industrial partners in

countries including the Netherlands.

So they don't need to destroy our factories because if they just sever

the supply change for vital components, it'll be enough to hold production.

That's a good way of saving you factories, Joe, is to say.

But

that assumes that China can't provide these critical parts.

Are you trying to get these factories blowing up?

Joe , maybe.

So there we go.

US Army War College saying, well, if they take Taiwan, let's

just blow up the factories.

Taiwan's saying, you don't have to do that.

They'll be useless anyway.

What's documentary about amd

The other, the other competitor to Intel, basically.

Yes.

And how they hadn't been competitive for many years and suddenly their value has

gone up and they've just bought a couple of other chip manufacturing companies that

do ju not just cuz they were concentrating on the server and desktop market and

they've now gone into the embedded market.

So they, they were boasting about Tesla's, most of the chips inside

of Tesla are now coming from amd.

Right.

And other similar.

So

it as in and where's AMD made?

The US.

Oh,

okay.

It's, it's American something or other, I thought.

Mm-hmm.

They've definitely been.

So when PCs became big in the nineties, it was Intel and amd that was the big war.

Mm-hmm.

and that's why Intel spent so much money advertising their brand.

Mm.

I came across something, I dunno if there's a podcast or a YouTube talking

about, I think the Netherlands where there's this really high tech micro

devices based in Santa

Clara.

Okay, there you go.

Anyway, it's the it's the new sort of oil in the sense of the us having a close look

and of course wanting to impose sanctions on China to restrict their access to the

high quality chip manufacturing equipment.

And China, of course, will be big enough and strong enough to

develop its own manufacturing base, which we've talked about before,

still going around the world.

France has banned short domestic flights.

So they've banned flights between cities that are linked by a train journey of

less than two and a half hours, which is

actually quite a distance given the tgv.

Right.

But it makes sense.

Yeah, absolutely.

They've got, they have got a worldclass high speed intercity rail network.

Mm.

It makes a lot of sense.

Mm.

And they're cracking down on the use of private jets for short journeys as well.

And of course they had to ask permission of the European Commission because

the um, I think some sort of aircraft lobby group of some sort complained.

But.

The European Commission gave them approval because it was on environmental grounds.

So there we go.

That's a good move by France.

More of that likely to happen, right?

Where we up to 8 36.

Okay.

Oil.

We've mentioned before about this price cap.

Russia has said they're not gonna accept the price cap.

We're just not gonna sell it.

We're not gonna accept your cap.

If you don't want the price we suggest, then you're just not gonna get it.

And the world seems to think that Russia will be compelled to sell it, but just

don't see how that's gonna happen.

So, well, they think if they're desperate

enough, they'll be trying to raise funds and we'll be selling it to

raise

funds.

Yes.

So one of the things coming outta this is.

Like the shipping companies are not gonna be able to get insurance.

So even say a country like India or China that might want to buy the oil is

gonna have problems because the shipping companies will say, we don't have

insurance, therefore we can't take the risk of transporting it to you because

these insurance companies are, are bound by these same sort of embargo rules.

And nobody else has said this, but I would've thought China

would simply say to these shipping companies, we'll insure you.

Mm-hmm.

, I would've thought so, didn't seem written anywhere, but just seemed

to make sense to me that China would simply say to them, you're covered.

Bring it over.

We want some so it didn't seem that hard to me.

Or Nice ship you've got there, we'll buy it from you and we'll do it ourselves.

Or, or we'll rent it off you for a short period.

Yes.

And if you ever wanna do business in China ever again, you will agree to this.

Give us some of your fleet or whatever.

Like, I think there are ways around this.

I don't see, you know, little countries can't do this.

Cuba is stuck.

They can't do this.

A big country, powerful country like China, it can do it.

Or even India.

Yeah.

So we'll see, see where all that ends up.

Meanwhile, I mean, Jim Charmers our treasurer, he's sort of making all the

right, right noises and but he said the G seven agreement to cap Russian

crude oil at US, $60 a barrel will help support stability in global energy

markets and ease pressure on prices.

He said Russia's invasion of Ukraine has forced up global energy prices.

And raw havoc on global energy markets.

So Russia has made it clear they're perfectly happy to sell the oil

in exactly the way they were, the oil and gas that they were before.

It's the buyers who are saying, we don't wanna buy it.

But Russia has been saying all along, we want to sell it business as usual.

Doesn't matter that we're at war with Ukraine.

We will still sell you this stuff.

So Jim Charmers seems to think that Russia is gonna just to capitulate

to this US $60 barrel figure.

That will be interesting to see how that all pans out.

I was looking at some figures in terms of China doesn't run a deficit

with many countries like China's running surpluses with most countries.

But in terms of countries that have a deficit or China has a deficit with.

The first number one is Taiwan, 156 billion.

Next is Australia, 92.6 billion and third South Korea, 58 billion, Brazil,

55, Japan, 37, Switzerland, 29.

Saudi Arabia, 24.

Saudi Arabia, 24 22.

Malaysia, 18, Australia.

Second place, 92 billion Like we are in such a lucky country position

to be the second biggest supplier.

Supplier to the ch, the biggest market in the world.

Maybe we need

to be careful.

Yes.

Before they send gumbos down to us and sell us opium,

Yeah, that's what I said before.

It's not easy.

Send a gunboat.

Perhaps if there was a risk of.

China or some other enemy sending enemy warships from Asia to Australia, then

it would've been handy to have a really good ally, I don't know, somewhere

off the northwest coast of Australia, maybe around East Timor for example.

You know, if we had a great relationship with East Timor, given it's almost

the last stopping off point gateway to attacking Australia, and it

would've been really useful for us.

So only if they were attacking the Pilborough.

Yes.

So, well, you know, I've gotta get to the PIL and then Australia, haven't I?

And then the rest of Australia.

Mm-hmm . Let me just sort out my notes here cuz I've gotta just

fix something on this screen.

Let me just bring up cuz I'm gonna assume dear listener, that maybe

you're not familiar with Timor is Timor on a map and the Timor gap.

So let's put that one up there.

So, what a sad and sorry tale this one is.

Joe spent a lot of time criticizing the US and other countries for their

meddling in the Middle East and meddling in Venezuela and all the rest of it.

Like oil does bad things to the ethics of powerful countries and Australia

is no exception when it comes to the way we've treated East Timor.

So I'm gonna try and give a little synopsis of what happened,

but basically in terms of.

No little timeline here.

16 hundreds Portuguese invaded.

Actually, I'm gonna just move something across the screen

to make it easier for me.

Hang on one second.

Otherwise I'm just gonna get off this mic.

Yeah, with me.

It's coming across.

Okay.

16 hundreds.

Portuguese Invades Timor sets up a trading post 1749 Timor split following a battle

between the Portuguese and the Dutch.

So the Portuguese take the eastern half and the Dutch take the western part,

which ends up being Indonesia 1942 Japan invades and up to 60,000 East team are

killed and Japan's in control until 1945.

So what you had there, because East Timor was.

Colonized by the Portuguese, you had 400 years of Christian colonial

administration and intermarriage between locals and Europeans.

So they were a much more white man, European friendly type of

people than the rest of Asia.

So Australian troops got a lot more help and support in East Timor during

the Second World War than we got in any other area in Southeast Asia.

And it was kind of as a result of that cultural background of the

Portuguese Christian settlement of, or colonizing of East Timor.

So, so post World War ii, you've got a lot of decolonization happening.

So the British, the French, the Spanish and the Dutch will

lose a lot of territory, but.

The Portuguese colonies, like East Timor remained in a kind of a time warp

because Portuguese Portugal entered the Atlantic Pack in 1949 and had a

strategic role within nato, basically because Portugal had these islands in

the Atlantic that were oh, couple of hours flight off the coast of Portugal.

So Azos the Azos ever been to the Azos Joan?

No.

Right.

Are they a bit of a hotbed for cryptocurrency now?

Sure.

But anyway, not that I've heard of, but maybe if you are an American military guy

and you're wanting to fly your aircraft across the Atlantic with the hope of

bombing something in Europe mm-hmm.

Great place to stop, refuel, catch a breath, and then head off again.

So, Because the Portuguese had that, those islands, which was very handy.

They kind of held onto their territories longer than the others

did because nobody wanted to piss off the Portuguese cuz they were so

strategically vital cuz of the azos.

So anyway, eventually pressure mounts.

In 1961, the UN General Assembly declared Portugal's colonies, including Timor

to be non self-governing territories.

And unfortunately, in Australia cabinet documents revealed that the

Australian government considered Timor could not exist as a viable economic

state, and it would undoubtedly fall to Indonesia who would have to control it.

But this failed to take into account that actually Timor had lots of enormous

mineral and petroleum resources available.

And just like those little tiny countries in the Middle East that

could have been East Timor, but Australia didn't wanna see it.

And even Goff Whitlam, I mean it's 50 years Joe since Goff Whitlam

took office in 1975 or what are we celebrating there with Joe?

1972 would've been that Goff Whitlam was elected.

And so 50 years.

Yeah.

Yes.

So there's been a lot of celebration of the the Whitlam government and um Right.

So for a lot of achievements, but Goff really was quite happy to allow the

Indonesians to take over East Timor.

So, so anyway now Australia.

Suspects and learns and, and figures out that there's an enormous amount of

petroleum valuable stuff under the sea bed between East Timor and Australia.

And a problem though, if you were to draw a, a line halfway between

East Timor and Australia, a median line, then all that lovely petroleum

resources are unfortunately on the East Timorese side of that line and

none of it on the Australian side.

So that's unfortunate because at first blush, you would think that

East Timorese should therefore own it.

And indeed, article six of a 1958 gen near the convention says where the

same continental shelf is adjacent to the territories of two or more states

whose coasts are opposite each other.

The boundary of the continental Shelf, A at such stage shall be

determined by agreement between them in the absence of agreement.

And unless other boundary line is justified by special circumstances,

the boundary is the median line.

So in between that median line and close to the coast of East Timor is a

feature called the Timor Trough, which was a an area of very, very deep water.

And Australia said, well, we say that the Continental Shelf finishes at the Timor

Trough, and therefore the boundary should be there, not the median middle line.

And therefore, all of this wonderful petroleum, these

petroleum resources belong to us.

And so, That's how Australian legislation was drafted, when it was granting licenses

to oil companies to go and explore and see what was there claiming that we had

ownership of the continental shelf that went all the way to the Timor trough.

Anyway.

Anyway, Australia, 1973 signed some treaties with the Indonesians

establishing some seabed boundaries.

Of course, the Indonesians weren't aware of exactly how much was there.

Now a lot of this is in Bernard Collars book, which is called

Oil Under Troubled Water.

So he goes into great detail about it.

I'm just gonna give him a sort of an overview here.

So some initial treaty signed with Indonesia, which was allowing Australia.

Access to explore and rights to be some sharing of rights with Indonesia

in this area that's on essentially the East Timor side of that median line.

And anyway 1975, back in Portugal, there's a anti-fascist revolt and we all know

what a fascist is now because we had that American guy explaining to us what it

was when he looked it up on Wikipedia.

Anyway, so the Portuguese become more left wing and they decide to

withdraw from territories like Timor.

Locally in Timor, there's a group called Fralin which was a they

declared immediately that they were East Timor was independent, and almost

immediately Indonesia invaded and.

Claiming that this Frelin group was a bunch of communists.

And so as part of their fight against communism, they had to take over.

East Timor, killed lots of people.

And eventually let me see.

So that was 1975.

Eventually 1999, Shar resigns, Indonesia and Portugal agree to allow East Timorese

to vote on their future independence.

78%.

It's past referendum, more violence because the Indonesian military had all

these great schemes and money making enterprises happening in East Timor,

which they didn't want to give up.

Fortunately, Australia came in and convinced them.

Guys, the show's over, you really need to move on.

So, peacekeeping force from Australia, restored order.

Lots of people still killed along the way.

Problem is really brand new government.

Leaders had been in jail and pressured by Australia to accept deals that the

Indonesians had cut with Australia, which were bad deals, and a young

country, no money at all, and threatened that, well if, if you don't sign

these deals, the oil companies are just gonna pull out and, you know, do

you want some money next week or not?

And really shameful sort of bullying practices in many ways by Australia

in that process and over the following years as, as deals were made.

And the sort of.

Young leaders or the inexperienced leaders of East Timor were bullied,

pressured at one point, agreed that to sort of placate the oil interests

that they wouldn't do anything that would make the situation worse.

And a lot of skullduggery by Australia in the sense of holding back

information about just how valuable the mineral the petroleum resources

were and really tough deals cut.

And of course, in amongst all this we even bugged the team Marie's

cabinet room so that we could listen in on their discussions so that

we would nego know their, their bottom line negotiating position.

And Bernard Coy had been the lawyer for the East Timorese.

Trying to help them in these battles, basically saying these team are,

shouldn't be bound by deals that Indonesia did with Australia, and

should be able to cut fresh deals.

It shouldn't have to be considered that it's adopted them.

And he was involved in, in taking Australia to the sort of different courts.

I'll get onto that in a minute.

Strangely, the guy who was involved in bugging the team's cabinet room sought

and got permission to get legal advice and the government said, yes, you can

go and get advice from Bernard Callery who was acting for the East Timorese

in the full knowledge of Australia.

It just seemed they should have said to him, you can get legal

advice, but not from that guy.

He's, he's involved in suing us on behalf of the ese.

Mm-hmm.

. But the last person that they should have let him witness Kay talk to was be coy.

But anyway, they did.

Anyway.

There's a article from the John Men blog.

All of this is in the show notes.

A guy called Ian Ciff, a very highly experienced, well

credentialed fellow talking about this whole deal of Bernard Col.

And basically saying that col acted for the Timor Lester against

Australian government over the bugging and other dirty tricks.

Collary was instrumental in taking that dispute, which is extremely

embarrassing to Australia.

He was gonna take to the permanent court of arbitration in the Hague.

Colari favored that permanent court of arbitration because it would avoid

Australia being publicly humiliated.

So that was a good thing from Australia's point of view.

Australia, however, sabotaged that arbitration because as soon as Col

left Australia for the Hague, they raided his home, seizing his documents

and case files relating to the case that he was going there for, as well

as stuff to do with witness K and in amongst so the book by Bernard Callery

that he's written oil under troubled water, doesn't have everything that

he'd like to say about what's happened.

But what he does point out is that Joe, in these deals with the oil companies, the

way it was framed by our trade officials was there's a huge reservoir of helium.

As well as petroleum Joe, I'll give you one Guess how much, what

percentage of the helium benefits that is Timorese in the wash up?

Take a guess.

Take a wild guess.

I reckon

all of it.

Cuz there isn't any And we get the oil

instead.

No, no.

There's heaps of helium.

Like lots of it.

So how much do you reckon the each Tim share of that is Oh, benefit worth money.

So zero.

Okay.

How much do you reckon Australia's getting?

Well,

if they're getting zero, we'd get a hundred

percent.

No, you would think so.

But an obscure definition was used in relation to the definition of petroleum

and resources, such as to exclude helium.

So, No country gets the royalties from the helium.

Oh, that's pure profit for the oil company.

Pure profit for the oil companies involved to, and the helium is such that it's

potentially worth more than all of the other petroleum products in these fields.

There's that much of it and it's an increasingly valuable resource.

Yeah.

And neither East Timor Noah Australia gets a single dollar from the

helium, it's absolutely criminal.

And Alexander Downer's fingers and Josh Frydenberg's fingers are all over it.

And that's where we circle back to Joe.

If this relational anti-corruption commission can look at things

retrospectively, first place, one of the places they really need to do.

They need to do well, Bey's case has been canceled by Mark Draper

so they're no longer pursuing him.

Somebody needs to sit down with Bernard Coling and say, okay tell us everything

you know, cuz there's a lot more that he knows and it just you know, not

only did the East Tim suffer and get a terrible deal on the normal petroleum

products, but both Australia and East Timor get nothing from helium.

Have I depressed you enough?

Obviously not.

Tom.

Don, Don in the chat room says helium is no laugh.

Helium is no laughing matter.

And you are saying Joe.

That's right.

That would be nitrous oxide.

Is that what laughing and gas is nitrous oxide?

Yes.

Very good.

It's quite a tail, that one.

So Australia Certainly back in history, people likes Garfield Barwick, who had

close ties with the minerals industry.

Comes out of this bad dock effort comes out good Goff Whitlam comes

out as uncaring and frydenberg and in particularly who was the other one?

I just mentioned his name.

I forget.

God, what's his name again??

Downer.

Thank you James Alexander Downer.

Really this all needs to be examined.

Was it incompetence, was it something else?

And plenty of work for somebody there.

It's all complicated and you just to feel really.

Really bad for our bullying of for East, who were basically one

of the most friendly neighbors.

Helped us out in the war time and, and really deserved a lot better from us.

So I, I, there's a story.

I knew someone who

was a PNG hand.

Mm-hmm.

fairly sure.

He was talking about oil reserves of png and he said that there was

so much money gonna come out of it that even with all the corruption

enough would be left over to change the infrastructure of the country.

And it was a, yeah.

That was the level of money that was going to be gloating around.

Yeah.

And you just wonder how much a country like East Timor would be changed

if they were seeing the royalties

from this?

Yeah.

Yep.

So it's a real shame, a real black mark on this country.

And anyway, oil under troubled water.

It's a bit of a difficult read.

It's quite complicated.

Even as I was trying in preparation for this podcast to check things and get it

straight in my head, it's not an easy read, but anyway, it's worth looking at.

So, so anyway, Joe 9 0 2.

If Shay was here, we would've kept her outta the shark tank.

I think we can close off and we'll be back again next week.

Dear listener.

Just cuz she's not here doesn't mean she's

not at

risk.

Well, well, that's true.

Yeah.

We'll have to find out from London whether the, the threat is still

extinct.

Yeah, true.

I might find out with Scott if he can get his internet up and

running and can join us a few times.

So we'll see what happens.

All right, well, we'll be back.

Same bad time next week.

Bye for now.

And