Welcome back to Lending Leadership: The Mortgage Pros, where we share real talk and actionable insights for mortgage professionals, from originators just starting out to established leaders looking to sharpen their edge.

In today’s episode, we’re shifting gears from the technical, loan-specific questions we tackled last week and diving deep into something even more foundational: the importance of leadership and coaching in the mortgage business.

We dig into tricky questions about ego, mindset, setting boundaries, the fear of both failure and success, and knowing when—and how—to seek out coaching. This isn’t a polished, scripted Q&A: we haven’t seen these questions ahead of time, so what you’re hearing are our genuine, from-the-heart insights, mixed with a little bit of humor and plenty of real-world perspective from our own experiences as mortgage leaders.

Whether you’re struggling with self-sabotage as your momentum grows, wondering if you really need a coach or just better time management, or feeling shaky after a slow year, we’ve got you covered with candid advice that pulls from both personal stories and industry observations.

Key takeaways:

1. Coaching is Not About Being Told What To Do—It’s About Growth: We challenge the idea that being coached means simply following orders. Instead, we see coaching as a co-pilot role, much like the pilot and co-pilot dynamic in aviation—someone there to help you operate at your highest level, catch blind spots, and elevate your performance. Even “the goats” (Tom Brady, Michael Jordan) have coaches.
2. Ego Can Cap Your Success (and Everyone Needs a Coach): No matter how successful you are, ego can put a ceiling on your growth. We share personal stories about letting go of “I’ve got this” mentalities and embracing guidance. The mortgage world doesn’t require the years of formal education other high-income fields demand, so continuous learning and coaching are key to building excellence and longevity.
3. Boundaries and Coaching Go Hand in Hand: The mortgage industry will take as much as you’re willing to give. Setting healthy boundaries isn’t just about protecting your time—it’s about making your success sustainable. A good coach (not just a paid professional, but anyone who can provide accountability) helps reinforce and uphold those boundaries, so you can operate effectively without burning out.
4. Overcoming Fear of Success and Self-Sabotage: Success can be just as scary as failure, leading some to unintentionally hold themselves back. The solution often lies in understanding your worth, clarifying your “why,” and being unapologetic in pursuing your goals. When guilt or discomfort around success arises, channel it into service or giving back—but don’t let it dim your drive.
5. Build Confidence By Controlling the Controllables—and Start Small: When business is slow, confidence can tank. The answer isn’t to obsess over your numbers, but to zero in on daily disciplines and small wins: making your calls, writing thank you notes, committing to simple, actionable promises to yourself. Trust is built through consistency in these routines, and confidence naturally follows as you see progress.

Whether you’re considering if you really need a coach, fighting to maintain balance, or simply wanting to level up your mortgage career, we hope today’s episode inspires you to reframe coaching, invest in yourself, and build habits that set you up for success—both personally and professionally.

Don’t forget to send us your questions for upcoming episodes, leave a five-star review, and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Until next time, keep leading—we’re in this together!

Robert, Tom, & Dave

Hey everyone. Welcome to another exciting episode of Lending Leadership with the mortgage pros. Robert Fillyaw here with Dave Holland and Tom Mills. Happy to be with you guys. How are you guys doing today?

Doing great, Doing great.

Excited for another episode?

Yeah, I'm really jazzed for this one. So, you know, guys, the last episode we, we, we had some questions that had kind of been building that were loan related, more kind of specific, you know, maybe situational in terms of building the business, things of that nature. We have a whole another segment of questions today that we're going to tackle that really focus more around the leadership and coaching aspect of our business. So we kind of bifurcated the, the questions and have a different, a different approach on it today, but still going to take some questions and we have not seen these in advance. We have no idea what's coming at us. So you guys are going to get kind of off the cuff responses just, just from, from the heart and from the head, really.

I like the last week, but there was some, there was some weird ones.

There were some weird ones. But who knows what we're going to get today. So it'll be, it'll be interesting. Oh, our first question just popped up. This is, this is from someone who came in as anonymous actually. But it, I, I've seen this actually some as I was coaching. I want to be coached, but I also hate being told what to do. How do I let go of ego and actually learn? Wow.

So I knew Dave was going to jump on this one first.

By the way, I wouldn't think coaching is being told what to do. I mean, you know, there needs to be a mind shift there. You know, I've never seen coaching as being told what to do, you know, since I was in a kid in athletics to being an adult and being coached in mortgages or just, you know, leadership. So how to let go ego and actually learn, that's a process, right? It doesn't happen overnight. Someone with that mindset, you know, maybe they're not the best coaching candidate. What do you guys think?

This person asked the question, maybe having tremendous success in, in their career, but they will reach a max on that, a plateau if they don't remove the ego, open their mind and realize that there's a lot to learn every day in this business, in sales and you know, in life. There's a lot to learn. And I think you, you'll only go to a certain point in anything you do with an ego and an ability to learn, I believe.

Yeah, I agree and I Think. I think this really comes down to, you know, determining what you're wanting to get out of coaching. What, what, what's your end goal did is, you know, what, what are you trying to achieve from it and really having some reflection and, you know, realizing that maybe you're not in the best position for that. You know, one thing that I, I've haven't ran into exactly this, but I remember early in my career, you know, I was a pretty good loan officer, knew my stuff, and people would come in and like, double check my files or come behind me, and I would always be like, you know, why? Like, I don't need that. I'm good enough to not need that. And I had a manager one time and she sent me a picture of a cockpit of an airplane, right? And you got a pilot and a co pilot. And she's like, look, don't think of this as like someone checking behind you or someone looking for fault. Think of this as someone being your co pilot to help make sure that you're being the best that you can be.

And that stuck with me and it resonated and it changed my entire mindset. And then the other thing that I used to tell people when I was coaching is, Tom Brady's the best quarterback that ever lived. He's the goat. There's no arguing it. Don't come at me with anything else. Tom Brady had a quarterback coach, right? Michael Jordan's the go to basketball, right? Best that's ever lived. Don't bring no LeBron shade up in here. Michael Jordan had multiple coaches.

So if you think that you're the goat of mortgage lending and that you don't need a coach, even the goats have coaches, right? And for anyone who doesn't know, goat is greatest of all time.

So, you know, if you think about how many of us, and I'm sure many of our listeners too, started in the mortgage business, how I started was here. Here's a, you know, mortgage calculator, here's a pen, here's a 1003, here's a list of leads. Start calling and figure it out, right? So if you look at it strategy wise, tactical wise, you know, remove the guideline questions and the actual, you know, the mortgage specific part of it from, from a sales, you know, sales concept, a lot of us were never coached at all how to build a team, how to scale. And a lot of us, and I know, Robert and I, and many of our listeners, I'm sure we just did it on sheer brute force. Meaning, hey, we'll work, we'll work 16, 18 hours a day just to get it done right. And there's only, there's only a fine amount of time before you can do it, before you hate this business. So we all. I am coached.

I know Tom is coached, Robert has been coached. I think if you look at our top 15 or 20 Los, they are all coached. A lot of our managers and leaders are coached. So we're a big believer in it.

The self made path is the most difficult journey you, you can, can take and the lone list journey you can take too. You know it. You think about when you think about like where you, where you guys have gotten to in your career, you think about all the people that like helped along the way. And honestly that, that to me is like some of the most rewarding stuff. And what, and my, my best memories of my successes is those along the way that helped, that helped me, like that shaped me, that made me better. So I, I think it's a, it's a lonely, lonely, challenging path. Alone and not, not open mind to learn.

Well, and why reinvent the wheel, right? Like why if someone else is doing it better, you know, Carl White, I heard say one time get in my draft. Like they figured a lot of it out, right? So like I, I don't want, I'm not that smart. I, I don't want to reinvent the wheel. I, I want someone to have show me how to do it and then I'll, I'll make it my own and refine it. But Robert, I cut you off. Go ahead.

No, that's good. No, that, that's a great point. And the last point on this, this question because we did have another one just pop up is, you know, I, I saw this posted the other day by the, the, basically the, the, the parallel and I think it's, you know, timely for this topic is when you look at our career, when you look at our business as a originator, like you make doctor money, you make lawyer money and in some cases you make professional athlete money, right? So if you look at that and you look at what does it take to do what we do versus what they do, right? Like a doctor by the time they come out of undergrad and medical school and Residency, they have 25,000 to 30,000 hours of education and learning invested to be able to make the kind of money that we can make with a 20 hour course, right? Lawyers are, you know, not exactly as much but still a lot of time invested in professional athletes. They have their whole, their entirety of their Childhood in. In high school and college and like, and then we come out and from an income standpoint, at least have the ability to be on the same level with very little comparison in terms of time spent in education. So, yeah, you're. You're probably going to need some coaching. And that's not ego.

That's just like, realizing the landscape in front of you.

Do you guys think we open up a college strictly made for people that want to enter the mortgage business? And hello, you imagine if that was a degree. Mortgage finance is a degree. Accounting's a degree. Mortgage, not a degree.

Not a degree. Have you ever. But have you ever met someone, like, have you ever met a kid in high school that you're like, what do you want to do when you grow up? And they're like, oh, I'm going into the mortgage business? I've never.

Their parents are. And they.

I mean, we have one on our team, you know, and she wanted to be a mortgage loan officer since she was a little girl. And here she is, she's a top producer killing it.

Who?

Lindsay?

You know what? I did know that. I didn't know that, but parents in the business, still. Awesome.

Yeah, absolutely.

Some kids that have parents in the business are like, like, hell no.

I didn't know what my dad looks like or mom looks like. They're working all the time.

Absolutely not.

All right, so here's. Here's the next question. This is from Anonymous, too. How do I know I need a coach or just better boundaries? Or how do I know if I need a coach or just bourbon in better boundaries?

Well, listen, bourbon's never wrong. So if. If you're like, do I need a bourbon or not? Yeah, you need a bourbon. In terms of. Of the coach or the better boundaries, I think, like, I think this comes back to that co pilot mentality. Right. And accountability. It's really hard.

This business will take as much of you as you let it, and it's really hard to set boundaries. Like, if. If we pulled a hundred los. I would be willing to say 99 of them would say time management and setting boundaries is an issue that they struggle with. Right. So if you're in your career and you haven't mastered that to this point, you. And you have it. No one has.

I'm really good at this, frankly, and I haven't mastered it. I still slip. So the coach is there to help you get started, to keep your mindset right. On how to. How to set them the boundaries and what happens when you screw it up because you're going to and to hold you accountable to it. So I think the two go hand in hand. It's not an either or.

Well, I'm not going to opine on the bourbon, but yes. You know, boundaries are tough in this business for a couple of reasons. Our reputation and how we interact with our agent, our realtor partners and our customers is all wrapped up in it. Right. So we're in the mindset if I don't get back to Robert in 15 minutes. Right. Robert may not send me another transaction. Right.

So that's number one. That's, that's false most of the times. And if someone's expectations are you're going to always return their phone call within 15 minutes or you're going to take their phone call at 11:15 at night, that's probably not a realtor, partner or customer you want to work with. You know, number two, there's so much revenue and income wrapped up in such. So each transaction, right. So you want to capture every deal that you can because you can make three, four, five thousand dollars off that. I understand that. But you will drive yourself crazy and you won't be able to do business development and you won't be in a good headspace.

And number three, I can't remember who said it might have been our friend Paul Dolan. Boundaries are sexy, right? If you have no boundaries, you have no life, then what's the success and money all about? Right? I think I've shared on this podcast before I lost top 10 realtor partner because this person texted me at 10:15 or 11:15 on a Sunday night and I didn't get back to her and she said, I need a loan officer who will return my phone call at 11 o' clock on a Sunday. And I said, I'm not your guy next. And I don't want to work with a person like that. That's just insane. That's. That's just insane. Nothing's getting done at 11 o' clock anyways.

That's your, that's, that's your improper planning that's now infringing on my family time and my boundaries.

I was sleeping.

Yeah. If you're trying to run your business at 11 o' clock at night on a Sunday, that's because you didn't plan something. Right, Mr. Ms. Realter?

Yeah, I think, I think that, you know, when someone thinks about coaching and you make that decision, you're going into coaching, you commit to it. I think the successes you have from it are less attributed to the coach and more attributed to the commitment that you made yourself, that you were going to take, you know, to go into coaching, to embrace, to learn, to do new things, to press outside of your comfort zone. That's like where the magic happens. A coach helps you make the hat, but it's that decision. And I've seen people, guys go into coaching that have net to make that decision. And what do you see them doing coaching? You don't see a lot of success, right? And six months later, and they're trying to cancel. They never made the commitment, the coach. And, you know, and maybe, maybe it's that the coach wasn't the right coach for you, and that's okay.

You know, I think when you make a true commitment to going into coaching, don't look at it like, I'm going to go into coaching for six months, say, this is what I'm going to do for the rest of my career. And right now I need to focus on this. I need to focus on setting boundaries. I need help with that, find the right coach for that. You know, I think people sometimes go to a coach because they're like, oh, this person coached me. You should get them to coach you too. Everybody's different. Everybody looks for something different.

Everybody has all different strengths and faults and, you know, so it's really about making the commitment to make the changes that you really want to make change. It's not like a band aid thing, man. I. I never. It's rare that, like, coaching is like three months, six months, and. And your whole life's changed forever. It's. It's the path that you just began, you know, towards changing it forever.

And I. I think, you know, it's just that mentality of learning and, you know, and commitment to that that really makes the shift. Find the right coach is critical, though. And I've had some coaches that weren't the right coaches for me that are phenomenal coaches that are like, you know, some of the best coaches in our industry. They just weren't the right coaches for me. And I still referred other people to them, knowing that they might be the right coach for them.

Yeah, that's a good point.

Looks like we have the next question up. Tom, you want to take this?

All right, I'm going to take the next question here. I love this one because this is. This is real. I love honesty.

There's a lot of psychology in this one.

Yeah. If I'm being honest, I'm afraid of success. I know that sounds odd, but every time I start gaining momentum, I seem to self sabotage what is up with that? That's deep. That's a great question.

That's a great question. And we see this sometimes with, with loan officers, right? Like we see it. So the first thing I would say to this is, know that you're worthy. Like know that you are worthy of success. And you know, Dave said there's a lot of psychology in this. It, it's coming from a place and you may not know where or why or how. And I don't know that that's necessarily even the point to find out. But just a little, this is where a little bit of self talk can help and know that you're worthy and you deserve the success that you work for.

And success is not a bad thing. I think sometimes we get this mindset that, you know, I'm, I'm doing well and I'm making money and I'm, you know, especially if, you know, I'm outpacing maybe my peer group or my family, that I should feel guilty about that. And then you kind of self sabotage to keep that guilt down. You're worthy of that, you're deserving of that. That's not something you should be guilty of. It's something that you should feel proud of and you know, pay it forward, help, help others. Right. Like if that guilt does spring up, use your success to give back to your community monetarily or from a time standpoint, like do that if you're, if you're having those feelings.

But I think it really starts with the realization that you're worthy, you're deserving and in kind of building from there.

Yeah, great, great. I think comes down to knowing what you want in life, knowing why you want that, and just going and getting that, you know, and like you said, feeling you're worthy and you don't have to justify anything to anybody or you know, success is defined differently by every person really. So I think, you know, sometimes there's a fear of failure is, is, you know, what, what people are afraid of. And, and they're the ones I think, you know, sit back feeling like they didn't succeed because they never really went after it.

You, you touched on something there, Tom, that, that is also part of this, right? And, and that's your why. Like, and I think this can, this can help with the, the fear of success or the fear of failure. Like if you don't know what your why is, why you're doing this, like why you're, why you're stepping out, why you're pursuing this. Obviously everyone has bills to Pay, right. You got to put food on the table. But ultimately like to get to that next level of success, to drive, to build, to grow past just survival. If you don't know what your why is and if it's not big enough to scare you and to drive you, to make you cry, to make you hop out of bed every morning, to propel you forward and upwards and onwards, you probably need to find a different why. And if you don't know what that is, you need to find your why.

Like when I took the leap to open my branch, I could tell you it was because I wanted to build something bigger than me, bigger than my team. So something that was for my children to step into at some point if they wanted to, that was my why. And, and it, it just. Rocket fuel. Right? Go ahead, Dave.

Yeah, like you said, if your why is strong enough and you believe in it and, and you've given a lot of thought, then the self sabotage kind of melts away. But yeah, that's, that, that's a good question.

Yeah, great question.

So we got, we got the next question coming up here. I've had a slow year and I'm embarrassed to talk about it. How do I keep my confidence up when I, when my numbers are down? So I mean she's in good company, right? That's, that's, that's a lot of people in the mortgage industry. That's a tough question. How do you keep your confidence up when the numbers are down? It's, I would submit that it's having the daily disciplines, having a plan and I'm not talking specifically about a business plan but having a, having a plan you do and day in and day out, making the phone calls, doing plan networking events, you know, weekly, daily, you know, it's, it's, it's the daily. I find it's the daily success and little things that help us be become successful day in and day out. Right. It's the daily disciplines.

It's the boring blocking and tackling, showing up for closings. Thank you cards, making the phone calls, things of that nature.

You have to, I think you have to learn how to trust yourself again. You know, trust builds confidence. You know, trust is built through tiny promises kept. So start small, you know, and what are three to five things a week that you can promise yourself you're going to start to do and do them? I'm going to wake by, I'm going to be out of bed by X time. I'm going to make X calls to such. I'm going to do this, you know, whatever those five things are, don't make them so lofty that they're unattainable, you know, and, and, and go and do those five things. And you know, when Friday comes around and you Woke up at 6am Every day, and every day you committed two hours to calls, and you have some success from it, and you saw and you prove to yourself that you, every day you, you know, you, you could, you say you would do something and you did it and you built trust in yourself and confidence. You'll go do it next week and start adding some more things and some more things.

And I really think that's the secret sauce.

Yeah, it's, it's interesting to me. You know, we get this question and we're all three essentially on the exact same page.

We get this question all the time too. Sorry. All the time.

Yeah. So I think it's important to remember that there are glide times and there are grind times, right? And when, when you come off of a glide time into a grind time, that's sometimes a difficult adjustment to make because it was easier before, right? And when it's easier, you get away from the things that made it easy. So what I would say is if your numbers are down, I almost guarantee you you're not doing these things we're talking about, right? The daily success plan, these little details, these four to five things that you commit to. Throw the numbers out the window. Don't even focus on them anymore, like, get them out of your head and go back to the basics and focus on the building blocks of your business, the dsp. And this is grind time, right? And do that and put your head down and go to work. And I guarantee you, I promise you, the numbers will follow. We see people that have come into this business who weren't here in 20 and 21 when it was frankly, a glide time and they didn't know any better.

They just came in and went to work and they're having amazing years. Their numbers are off the charts because they don't know anything different and they don't expect anything different. They, they came in, they put their head down, they went to work. So if this, if this is you out there, your numbers are down. You'll build confidence by achieving the little activities. Those little activities will increase the numbers you'll look up, your business will be back and it'll be banging.

The only thing I'd say to that is, I don't consider 20 and 21 glide times. I, I, I, I was grinding during those years.

Well, they were, they were glide times in terms of business coming in.

I know, I know. I'm down.

Like, that's what I mean. Glide business coming in. Grind and listen. What, what's that? There's a saying that I'm going to probably mess it up because I'm going to go off head. But tough times make strong men. Strong men make good times. Good times make weak men. Weak men make tough times.

Right. And it's a cycle. And it's the same thing with your business. Like, when you start booming, you do, you start like that's where the discipline and that's where coaching really comes in to make a difference. When your business starts booming and starts growing, you get away from doing the little things that led to that. And then, you know, this is why we see loan officers sometimes with roller coasters on production. You know, you'll have a banging month and you'll have a not so great month. It's because you get.

You're busy and you, you put to the side the reasons and the things that got you busy. So next. Next question. I am making okay money, but I'm not building anything that feels sustainable. Is coaching a good investment when I'm basically living month to month? Have to be able to make sure you don't get over your skis financially. Right. And there's a lot of coaching out there that can be expensive. You know, are we saying that if you're dealt a deal month to month, that you need to go out and drop two grand, $2,500 a month on coaching?

No.

You've got to be able to commit to it financially. And I think it's important that you're able to commit to it for a long period of time to be able to have it sustainable and get the results. But guys don't. Coaching isn't just a professional paid coach. Coaching is your peers. Coaching is accountability. Coaching is your manager, your leader that you can build a plan with and say, hold me accountable. Coaching can be.

Coaching can be your spouse, it can be your best friend. The podcast is about accountability.

The person you respect on social media that, you know, shares, you know, insightful tips that there's. It's all over when you look for it. You're. You're absolutely right. It.

Coaching can be something as simple as. I mean, there, there are free things, groups that you can get involved with, call stars, right, where you can be involved in a daily something and it costs you nothing. Now, are they going to try to, you know, maybe get you to sign up at some point. Yeah, but that's at your discretion.

Well, and here's the thing. There's dozens of podcasts out there that are great besides ours, right? That there's so much free information. Everyone has a driver's license, they can get a library card. There's tons of motivational books. There's tons of times managing.

There's.

There's so much information out there that you can get that's free if. And then once you start building, start building momentum, then if you think the time is right, then you can afford a coach, then maybe the timing's right at that point. But there's so much. I mean, we forget Internet, podcast, social media content, library card. You know, you can get a great motivational book for Amazon for 10 bucks and it'll be at your house in, in one day. So don't sleep on all those free resources as well, too.

I think that that goes back a little bit to that all or nothing mindset. Right? And a lot of us have it. Like, you don't have to drop two grand a month to see success and results from a. From coaching there. There are a hundred other ways to, to skin that pig.

Skin that pig. I don't think that's a euphemism you're looking for. I think it's skin the cat, right?

Butcher the pig. I'm. I'm trying to get some bacon, bro. Skin that pig. All right, we're gonna stop it there, boys. Great questions today. Thank you guys out there for, for sending them in. We always like getting your questions.

I think we have went through most of them that we've gotten in, so we'll be back with a more informational episode the next time. Thanks so much for tuning in on this episode of Lending Leadership with the Mortgage Pros. You haven't smashed that, like, button and left us that five star review. Go ahead and do those now. Make sure you subscribe so you catch every episode. For Dave Holland and Tom Mills, this is Robert Fillyaw. Y' all have a great day.

Email us some questions.

Thanks, y' all.