Autism skilled trades programs are transforming careers. Danny Combs joins Andrew Brown to discuss TACT, electrician training, and workforce development.

Host Andrew Brown speaks with Danny Combs, founder of Teaching the Autism Community Trades (TACT), about how autism skilled trades programs create real opportunities for employment for autistic adults in trades. They break down how electrician training for autistic individuals, carpentry, HVAC, and welding are reshaping the trades industry—and why neurodiversity workforce development is vital for the future of skilled trades.

This episode delivers practical insights for contractors, educators, and industry experts who want to strengthen advocacy, build inclusive programs, and prepare the next generation of tradespeople.

IN THIS EPISODE

● (00:02) – The $2.2M cost families face and the gap in autism skilled trades programs.

● (07:15) – Danny Combs’ background, Nashville music career, and trades family roots.

● (15:40) – The start of Teaching the Autism Community Trades (TACT) and Temple Grandin’s advice.

● (26:10) – From a warehouse to a 19,000 sq ft facility with Subaru, Toyota, and more.

● (38:25) – Why employment for autistic adults in trades matters for the economy.

● (49:50) – Expansion, advocacy, and the future of neurodiversity workforce development.

Key Takeaways

● Autism skilled trades programs provide real career pathways beyond low-skill jobs.

● Employment for autistic adults in trades fills labor shortages in electricians, carpentry, plumbing, HVAC, and more.

● Teaching the Autism Community Trades (TACT) leads the way in neurodiversity workforce development.

● Electrician training for autistic individuals proves trades careers can be debt-free, high-paying, and fulfilling.

About the Guest

Danny Combs is the founder of Teaching the Autism Community Trades (TACT), a nonprofit equipping autistic youth and adults with skills in carpentry, HVAC, electrical, welding, and more. Drawing from his music background, trades family legacy, and fatherhood journey, Danny built TACT into a nationally recognized leader in autism skilled trades programs and neurodiversity workforce development, helping create meaningful careers and reshaping the skilled trades industry.

Keywords

Autism Skilled Trades Programs, Employment for Autistic Adults in Trades, Teaching the Autism Community Trades (TACT), Neurodiversity Workforce Development, Electrician Training for Autistic Individuals, Skilled Trades, Trades Industry, Trades Careers, Contractors, Education, Advocacy, Industry Experts, Skilled Trades Advisory Council, Carpentry, HVAC, Electricians, Plumbers, Millwrights, Construction, Tradespeople, Craftsmanship, Problem-Solving, Creativity

Resources

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danny-combs-m-a-bccs-cas-90987613a/

Website: https://www.buildwithtact.org/

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It's costing parents according to Time Magazine, $2.2 million

to raise autistic individuals.

And then they're not getting access to programs that lead to careers.

It's a giant elephant in the room that there is this huge demographic

of folks that want to work, that can work, that can do amazing things that

aren't even given the opportunity.

And I think that's where tact comes into play.

How valuable it's been in leading to kind of change that narrative, especially

in the skilled trades and create just a whole bunch of different opportunities.

Hi, I'm Andrew Brown.

You're listening to the Lost Star of the Skilled Trades Podcast,

a show that shines the spotlight on careers in the skilled trade.

That are high paying, honorable, rewarding, and fulfilling.

The trades are the backbone of the economy that keep us running, and without

them, our world would cease to exist.

Today we have a special guest super excited about this one.

Danny Combs, founder of Tact teaching the Autism Community trade.

Welcome, Danny to the show.

Hey, thanks so much for having me.

I appreciate it.

You know, Danny, I was, uh, thinking about my time in Nashville last year, and I was

there with our foundation, the Skilled Trades Advisory Council, and one of our

members, Rob Alman, interviewed Mike Rowe at the Conex National Conference.

And I want to get into the Mike Row story with you in a little bit, but

it's also the same time that Morgan Wallen country Singer threw its

share off a balcony from chiefs.

I remember walking down the street on Broadway.

It's my first time and my buddy who loves Nashville, he's like, you gotta

go to Robert's Western world and have a fried bologna sandwich and a moon pie.

And it was unbelievable.

You know?

You started your career off as a singer, a country singer.

Can you tell us a little bit about that background?

Not necessarily a singer.

If you heard me sing, you'd go running for the hills for sure.

But guitar player.

Yeah, I mean, I grew up in a family of the trades.

My great-grandfather, grandfather, and father were all tradesman.

Actually, when you're fourth generation, you spend every weekend

time after school, summer vacation, working out on a construction

site, and you're like, heck this.

I'm gonna go be a musician.

So that's exactly what I did, and I ran away to Nashville.

It worked out really well.

I was very fortunate and got a music degree and went there and I ended up

getting to work with country artists, Christian artists, did recording,

touring, editing, publishing, management.

Teaching a whole gamut of different things.

That was pretty amazing.

And I think like the culture and the philosophy of a lot of the people that

I met there really became like the foundation and guiding principles of

how I work and interact with people.

Where I learned that like if you were genuinely good at something, you didn't

need to tell everybody how good you were.

Like the people that were really good were the most humble, down to earth, honest

people you'd ever meet and you could meet somebody that had played on every record.

And they were just sitting having a, you know, beer or a cup of coffee

at some diner and probably holy blue jeans and a ratty t-shirt.

You'd have no idea that they were like this incredible talent.

And the ones that you know, like to boast were obviously way

better than me, no doubt about it.

But nobody wanted to work with people like that.

And so it was such a great lesson to learn that your attitude now you show up

to the game really influences what kind of work you end up getting in the future.

I wanna roll back 'cause you had mentioned that your family was in the trades.

What trade or trades were Ann?

My great-grandfather was very fortunate.

He happened to be neighbors with a man named Mr. Grumman that started

a company called Grumman that became north of Grumman back in Long Island.

So you're in Connecticut, so you're, you're pretty close.

You know, they did everything from the lunar module, DSP satellites, to

drones, to aerospace, grumman's, massive.

And my grandfather was Air Force.

Um, after Korea, he went and joined and he started as an electoral engineer,

trained in the Air Force, worked his way up into an executive at Grumman.

I mean, he did have my great-grandfather that kind of, you know, soft

little push there into Grumman.

And then my dad, same thing, became a general contractor and

would build one house at a time.

He taught me everything.

I mean, we would dig the foundations, we'd lay the brick, we'd do the

wiring, frame it shingle it.

I thought everybody did that.

And so, you know, it wasn't until college when your toilet broke in your dorm room

and people were like, how do we fix it?

And you're like, what do you mean?

How do you fix your toilet?

I was so ignorant.

I thought everybody knew how to do that, or your car needed a new breaks.

And they're like, oh, I'm gonna take it to the break shop.

And it's like, that's a job.

Like people don't just do that themselves.

That was just my upbringing.

You know what's funny?

'cause my friends, nobody knows how to do anything.

Right.

Let us screw in a lipo.

You know, my father, I came up in industrial distribution.

So my great-grandfather started a hardware store and then my grandfather

turned it into more of a steel business and then my father turned it into more

upper brick and mortar store selling to iron workers products and services.

And it has an impact on you, but it's interesting that in your journey

you just know to like work with your hands like you're gonna get in there.

And it's funny that.

You had that experience that people are like, I don't fix a toilet, but you can.

It's interesting 'cause I always viewed, you know, playing

guitars the same kind of thing.

I mean, I still felt, always felt like I was still working with my hands

because I was, and like very, very much viewed it as just a different trade.

And it wasn't until my son, Dylan was born and diagnosed with autism.

He was naturally good at making and fixing things.

And even before we learned what autism was, I thought it was just,

okay, this is my family upbringing.

That's what we all do.

You know, like this is how we were like, he just somehow got

this gene and he's, even before he could say, hello, dad, I love you.

I mean, he was six, six and a half before he could say that I

let my son play with scissors.

I was that dad.

And he would cut things outta cardboard and he would build

Legos without instructions.

I mean, he was just able to see how it worked and do it, and now

I know a lot more than I did then.

That was kind of the start.

Yeah.

But working with your hands and playing guitar or fixing a toilet, but it had an

imprint on, you didn't go that direction, but you came around in a sort of way.

For the audience that doesn't know what autism is, can

you describe what autism is?

You?

The CDC just came out and said it's now one in 31 individuals here in

America are diagnosed with autism.

They only take that from eight year olds by the way.

So, I mean, you're talking just shy of 3% of the population now

is being diagnosed with autism.

Actually, a number of individuals with autism is probably much

higher, um, as they've gone about some different diagnoses processes

than when you and I were probably younger, but according to the medical

journalism, the DSM five, that's considered a communication disorder.

It's the way that somebody would process and view information and

then communicate that information.

There's no quantifiable.

Gene, there's no like scientific test.

You can go and get blood drawn.

You're like, Hey, you're autistic.

It's very qualitative from a, a group of doctors and psychologists and therapists

as they assess it, but has to do with the way that you communicate, perceive,

and think and you kind of that kind of biodiversity of cognitive diversity.

And so I'm going to bet you knew autistic individuals growing up.

I know I did.

And you know, so it could be anything from that nerdy kid in the classroom

that was super hyper-focused on something or maybe didn't make great eye contact.

Was socially awkward to struggled, communicating verbally what they

were thinking and understanding at the same time, 3% of the population.

And when you look at that and the fact that it's the largest unemployed

demographic of any point to that point, I mean, when you're talking

roughly 3% of the population, roughly 8 million individuals, you look at how

many job openings there are right now.

I mean, it wouldn't be a perfect one-to-one.

When you've got a demographic that's 90% unemployed, it's causing parents,

according to Time Magazine, $2.2 million to raise autistic individuals.

And then they're not getting access to programs that lead to careers.

It's a giant elephant in the room that there is this huge demographic

of folks that want to work, that can work, that can do amazing things that

aren't even given the opportunity.

And I think that's where tact comes into play.

How valuable it's been in leading to kind of change that narrative, especially

in the skilled trades and create just a whole bunch of different opportunities.

And I wanna go talk about tact in, in just a minute, but how did that change you

when you found out about his diagnosis?

Was that, did you stop at that point playing guitar and.

Focus, you know, on family, like what happened there?

If you don't mind sharing.

I mean, no, not at all.

You know, I would love to tell you I took it well and you know, it

was like, yes, my son's autistic.

This is awesome.

I did not, you know, I made the folks cry the time.

I was proud of it.

In retrospect, I regret that that wasn't way in a lot of selfish

thoughts went through my mind.

You know, when you hear autism, especially a long time ago.

It was like this, you know, bad news, right?

The doctors still to this day, they give you a book, which is a three ring

binder with flyers and say, good luck.

They don't know what to tell you where to go, anything.

And I started doing research and the selfish thoughts of like,

you know, am I gonna take care of my son for the rest of my life?

Is my last name gonna carry on?

Is, you know, what does this look like for me going forward?

It was all about me, me, me.

It was very selfish.

And then when I started seeing all the things that my son was able to do

despite, you know, the language barriers.

It kind of started changing my perception and in the sense of like,

wow, he can do these amazing things.

And I would go to these therapist's office and thankfully music paid the

bills and it paid the bills well.

So I was able to afford these therapy offices that were quite expensive.

By the way.

I sat in these, these waiting rooms and therapists would come out and

all they would talk about were the negative things about my son.

They never recognized all the good things.

It was constantly what he needed to change.

I recognized all the things that he could do, and so.

He was able to, you know, do all these amazing things.

So I started looking for a strengths-based program.

Again, kind of selfish, like he's good at fixing things.

Clearly somebody is using this as a vessel to like, demonstrate kids skills and like

build them up and give them opportunity.

And I couldn't find anybody that was doing it all.

And I had the chance to meet Dr. Temple Grandin, and she is

one of the coolest people you're ever gonna meet in your life.

So she just made USA, today's top 100 individuals.

She's been in time magazine's, 100 most influential folks.

Women's Hall of Fame.

She's autistic.

She's a professor.

They made an HBO movie about her.

They've made several movies about her.

She's written a whole bunch of books.

She designed the machines that turns cows into hamburgers.

She's awesome.

And so I had the chance to meet her, and if you haven't looked her up, my

gosh, Google her right now and like you're gonna get down this rabbit hole

of all these things that she's done.

She's incredible.

And so I had the chance to meet her and said, Hey, I've got this idea

for teaching trades to autistic kids.

What do you think?

And she was like, you need to put down your guitar right now and go do it.

And for whatever reason, that was the straw that broke the camel's

back and had good lawyers for music in Manhattan and contacted them and

said, has anybody ever done this?

They said, no.

We started it right away and as a car guy, 'cause I grew up in, you know,

loving cars and working on cars.

We put it started at a 58 Chevy.

Put on a police car frame on twenties and a three 50 engine and because if

you're gonna do it, you do it right.

Right.

I didn't want the kids to be like, okay, here comes, you know,

the quote unquote short bus.

I wanted it to be fun.

It needed to be like, this is exciting and engaging.

And then I loaded up the back of the truck with the tools, you know that, with

the skills that my parents taught me.

And so, I mean, all the trades we started with automotive, carpentry,

electrical, woodworking, this was all.

Welding.

This was things that my parents, my dad, my grandfather, and

great-grandfather taught me.

And it was very much just like, okay, let's give this a shot.

And so I would drive to churches and rec centers and libraries,

and anywhere people would gimme a chance and it grew from there.

So now it's, we had a law change to create an entire new public school designation.

We have a 19,000 square foot facility, a staff of almost 30, it's now

multimillion dollar nonprofit that has sponsorships from Subaru and Toyota

and Miller Electric and Mitsubishi.

And.

All of these big companies that see the value proposition and the

return on investment for what the autism community is able to do.

It's pretty cool.

We get, you know, hundreds of kids jobs every year, and

not just jobs, but careers.

We always like to differentiate.

I mean, that's something that the trades offer and what's traditionally

happened for autistic individuals or any neurodivergent person.

Is they're not given necessarily that a quality of opportunity.

It's always like, do you want to go work at the coffee house?

Do you wanna roll napkins at the restaurant?

Do you wanna push, you know, grocery carts?

Like what is it that you want to do that isn't a full career?

And we're changing that.

That is unbelievable.

But just, you know, kind of going through sort of your background of the trades and

that you didn't want to go that direction.

Going to Nashville and being guitarist to working with your son and, and

having to go through that, coming out of this and starting sort of a

foundation that gives back, I guess, what was the initial feeling when

you wanted to start this foundation?

Was it when she gave you the green light and she's like, go do it?

Was it just like, okay.

Where do I go first?

What do I do?

Who do I, yeah.

It was terrifying.

You know, I mean, thankfully good lawyers and my wife Becky, she's been amazing.

The two of us together I think is what's really made it possible because

we just compliment each other so well.

But I mean, it's very fearful when you've got a family and

you're, you know, music was good.

It was worked out the way that a lot of people would hope it would work out.

I was very fortunate to take that leap of faith.

The big, you know.

Driver and feeling a little bit of comfort in it was we had won a half

a million dollar grant as a nest egg.

So I didn't think anytime you want a half a million dollar grant that

makes you feel a little bit better.

And we moved from the back of the truck to this horrible, just terrible

falling apart warehouse where the a gentleman that his grandfather had

invented a cochlear implant for people that are deaf or hard of hearing.

To here.

He had this old warehouse and he's like, heard what we doing?

His son was autistic and he is like, you can use this space.

I mean, it was terrible.

I mean, it was like literally this thin metal, you know, no heat, no

air conditioning, rust everywhere.

It was the old factory where they made those red shop rags that you go,

if you go to advanced auto parts or something, you buy like the Red Rocks.

Yeah, that's where they used to make them.

So it was covered with this dust everywhere.

And that was our start.

We would bring out little propane heaters.

It got robbed all the time, or burglar all the time because people

would break into the building.

You know, if you think Denver, an old warehouse, this was the same

time marijuana was becoming legal.

People were breaking and they weren't looking for tools,

they were looking for weed.

And so we would get robbed all the time.

And so, but at the same token, because it was just so exciting and so.

Powerful to see what was happening.

That warehouse has so many great memories.

Then it got knocked down and somebody paid like $40 million for the land

to build a new duplex or something.

So, but that's where it's your roots.

That's where you started.

And at that point, how many students, or how many kids did you have at that point

when you first kind of started this hole?

It was, you know, never been more than six kids per class.

And then we started the first partnership with schools one

year after we got started.

And it was 20 kids at first, just a couple different classes, me teaching

all the classes and Becky and like we'd run into classes, then we'd meet with

donors and then we'd write grant reports.

And I mean, it was just very much trying to do it all.

And then we hired our first support staff and our first teacher, other than me.

Then it grew, and I mean now it's, you know, over a thousand kids came

through the program this past year.

So I mean, it's grown to a pretty substantially large sized program.

Um, not just kids, but young adults.

I mean, that's another thing that is another elephant in the room is that

all these state and federal programs, depending upon what state you're

in and at either 21 or 22, so some different states for you, it as like

through your 21st birthday or to your 21st birthday, depending upon where

you're at, it's what's called in our community as the cliff where it's like.

You didn't get a job, you didn't go to, you know, post-secondary,

you didn't go to trade school.

Military services run out, good luck.

And so it becomes very frightening.

And so we've picked up that mantle and that torch too, to keep that going

for those individuals that haven't.

And when you get a, you know, 30 5-year-old, 40 50-year-old coming

to your program and you see their parents cry because that's the

first time they've heard their child or they're now young adult hear

that they are good at something.

It's powerful and it also breaks your heart because no individual

should have to wait to that age to recognize their strengths and talents.

And then you see them not only get jobs, but advance in those jobs and get

that opportunity they've been waiting for and deserving that whole time.

It's pretty amazing.

And you know, the cool thing about the trades is you've already embraced

English as a second language.

They put in the infrastructure already for autistic individuals.

There's all these charts, everything's color coded.

All of these, you know, you walk into a factory manufacturing site.

It's there.

I mean, they didn't even know they were doing it, but they already did it.

Yeah.

It's amazing how far it's come, you know, in a certain period of time.

When you say that, you know, some of these individuals are 50 years old, it

just shows also that age is not a fact, or especially working with your hands.

How did the individuals, some of the kids and some of the older people

who were part of the program, how do they find out about the program and

is it just within your area or are you, there's people coming in from.

You know, different states and going through the program,

they come from all over.

So, I mean, we've had kids, one kid, his dad was a judge in Chicago and gave

up being a judge in Chicago to move here to like give his kid our program.

Now he works at the car dealership and is thriving, you

know, I mean, it's pretty cool.

So people come from all over.

You know, the goal is to grow it everywhere because despite tech

being around a decade now, trade programs still aren't doing this.

I mean, this is still, again, the elephant in the room and so.

Tech partnered with a company, a New York based company called

Fedcap to expand last year.

They're a half a billion dollar multinational workforce development,

special education nonprofit, and you know, we're gonna start growing it

to Texas, New York, other countries.

And, um, Becky's leading the way now, you know, she's now running the show.

I took a job, got offered by the governor to run the state's disability

opportunity office and kind of guide the entire state on policy and strategy.

And when the governor calls you and says.

I'd like you to do this.

You can't say no to that.

Right?

So I get to still be on the board of tact and Becky's incredible.

So I mean, it's gonna keep going and going further, which is exciting.

That's really amazing.

And it's interesting, probably when you started this, you didn't realize.

That you'd be working there, right?

Just, you know, no.

Yeah.

It was a dad taking the skills that his, you know, family had taught him and

passing them on and, you know, so many of the tools were my grandfathers and

great-grandfathers, and I can't tell you how often, still to this day, you'd be

working on a project with one of the kids.

And some tool that you could buy that some fancy tool doesn't work and you're

reaching the toolbox and something my grandfather, great-grandfather made

still works and you're just like, gosh, man, they're still taking me

to school to this day for some wrench that they, you know, cut up and welded.

That's perfect for, you know, some little task that you're trying to achieve.

It's kind of fun.

And you get to pass that on and show the kids how to do that.

'cause you don't get that from a YouTube video or from a book.

Like that's the only kind of stuff.

Yeah, you're gonna have to get that from people that have been in it for a minute.

So.

What trades do you primarily focus on in the program?

Great question.

So it started with the auto mechanics program's massive.

The welding program's massive.

The woodworking, carpentry, electrical probably gets honestly more kids

jobs than any of the other trades.

The electrical industry's fantastic.

There's a tech for the trades program that does everything from drones

to cybersecurity to architecture, engineering, culinary program.

We're wanting to dabble in some more, eventually getting into hvac, but

that's kind of where it is right now.

You know, and the amazing thing about like electrical, and I think part of the reason

it's been so successful is there's such a shortage of journeyman electricians right

now that what's happening instinctively is a lot of electrical companies are

doing pre manufacturing warehouses, where they're building giant whips in

the factory to take out to the job, and the limited number of journeymen

that they've got can then install it.

When transportation's an issue for some folks and you've got a big warehouse

and it's repetitive task, you get a blueprint and you're laying out

everything and building in a factory, that's a lot easier for our kids too.

I mean, it's a much more controlled environment and it

leads to a lot more success.

So it's almost perfectly built.

I mean, again, it's, it's like they didn't even know they were doing it

for that demographic, but it works.

So electrical sounds like the most popular.

So how long is the program?

So if individual starts to, when they come out and they get a job or an

offer, and are you working with local companies to place these individuals?

Oh yeah.

There's over a hundred companies at this point, which we're really proud of.

I mean, that's, I think, a pretty amazing achievement to get

that many businesses involved.

I love when people ask that question because they don't usually like this

answer, but tact is competency based.

And so what you hear a lot of times is all these programs that are

like, come in six weeks, you're gonna be a master electrician.

You're gonna do this in eight weeks.

You're gonna do this in 12 weeks.

Why?

Like I still, I've never met anybody that can tell me, you know how

they came up with these timetables?

Are you gonna go to trade school, college, and technical school has to be this number

of semesters that are, this number of months tact is competency based, which

a lot of universities are moving to too.

When you look at nationally, the number of liberal arts colleges that

are now failing, and it's like 10 a month that are starting to go away.

They're starting to get creative and starting to look at this idea

of competency-based education.

We're no longer needing to work through this industrial revolution

idea of like, you're going through it at this certain number of time.

Sometimes classes are slow and you just have to be there because that's

a little box you have to check.

Like if kids need to move faster, we're gonna move faster.

If they need to slow down and take more time, let 'em

slow down and take more time.

Some students will go through in a semester and they'll

just get in, crush it.

It's fully accredited program.

They get all their certifications through it.

Nothing's watered down.

So they're getting every certification that they need

to be successful in the field.

Some of them, it takes a couple years.

Just depends.

I mean, not where they fall on that autism spectrum and how much

support they need and how we need to differentiate their education.

They're getting the same boxes checked that everybody else's,

nothing's changed or watered down.

That's unbelievable.

And the people who are teaching these classes, where do you

find these individuals, like the electrical side or auto carpentry?

They're usually retired or close to retired traits focused

what we've been found, okay.

A lot of times you get, you know, guys that have been in it for a minute

and they're like, you know, no longer wanna get up early or be out there.

My body can't handle it anymore, but I wanna be in a classroom and teach all

this knowledge and wanna give back.

And then we pair them with a special education professional.

Because a lot of times just because you've done it doesn't mean you can teach it.

And so we wanna give them the supports that they need to, so we pay for

all these different professional developments for them, and then

we get them set up with somebody that can guide them at that point.

So somebody who comes through and then gets an offer, are they basically

coming out with no debt at that point?

I really appreciate you bringing that up too, because a hundred percent,

again, the average family, according to Time Magazine, right, and they've

done a big study on this, is that the average family is spending about $2.2

million to raise an autistic kid.

As opposed to a quarter million dollars for a neurotypical kid.

So it's expensive, right?

Therapy stuff, you know?

And it does fall on Medicaid, bulk rehab insurance, but

still out of pocket on parents.

It's a lot, right?

And so as a parent, one of the things that Becky and I have worked for is

to make sure that parents don't pay.

It's a really weird business model to go to parents and be

like, we don't want you to pay us.

But we work really hard with the foundations and nonprofits, corporations.

I mean, they are the ones that provide that funding.

And you know, when we created that new public school designation, it's called a

Specialized Day School, pretty neat in the sense that it gets both state and school

district funding so that parents and those individuals don't have to pay for it.

We don't want them to have to pay for it.

So yes, they graduate with no debt.

We've got situations where then they get tools afterwards to work boots, you

know, starter kits of tools, those kind of things so that they can be successful.

I wanna circle back to just another program that's out there that I

don't think the public like maybe doesn't realize this program exists.

You know, I was at the Williams College of the Trades, if you're familiar with them.

In Pennsylvania, they take 300 kids, it's tuition free, and

they come from rough backgrounds.

They put 'em through schooling, so they get full education.

They learn a trade for three years and then after that they're offered a job.

So it's about 80 students that graduate after the three years,

and some of them are getting three or four offers, but they're coming

out with no debt tuition free.

Like these programs exist out there for someone who's got a tough background,

you know, maybe comes from poverty, doesn't have any real, you know, outlet.

And this presents itself someone who's has, you know, autism.

But there is a, a foundation, there's a program that can give them a, a job

and set them up for future success.

I love hearing these stories.

We need more though.

I mean, like, I haven't heard of that program and that sounds awesome.

I mean, like, in a sense that we need more programs out there doing that

and that we need more kids recognizing that this is a viable option.

You know, I also ended up doing Air Force.

I had a lifelong dream of joining the Air Force in the military.

I did, I enlisted at 39.

I went through basic training at 40.

It was something I always wanted to do and look at the military in the same way, in

the sense that, you know, it's just not supported in the same way in our culture

that we, I think it should be in sense.

There is so much opportunity there that our kids need to be aware of.

And, you know, I have a master's degree.

I love it.

I'm grateful for it.

Is that experience I got for my family any less valid?

I, I don't think so.

You've checked a lot of boxes and many different things.

I wanna circle over to the Mike Rowe show that you were just on and you

sent it to me, and I know he was making his rounds, showing up at

different programs and individuals.

Tell us a little bit about Mike Rowe and your relationship to Mike Rowe and what,

what ended up happening at the end of the show, because you were very emotional

and it was really awesome to see.

It was amazing.

You know, we had the chance to first meet Mike right when COVID happened.

He was doing a show called Returning the Favor.

Tact was going to be highlighted and was highlighted on that, and

apparently he was supposed to come.

Becky knew about it, my parents knew about it.

All this different, and then COVID happened and no one could travel

and so they did it remotely.

And so I got to meet him.

Kind of like you and I are meeting now, which is awesome.

Hope one day we get together and have a beer or a cup of coffee or something

and you know, shake hands and talk more.

It was neat.

I mean, he donated a couple of vintage cars for our

students to work on as they do.

His foundation gave us some money.

He connected us to some other foundations that gave us money and

supported us, which was amazing.

And then his producer, Sarah, that's like the co-host of that show, has

kept in touch and just been a huge advocate for t and the work we're doing.

And he fooled me again with this new show that he was doing

with the people you should know.

Um, which is kind of funny that he, he genuinely did it twice in a year.

He's.

Consistently donated money to our program and support it in a variety of

different ways, which I think is awesome.

So when he gets the opportunity to share about it, and now with the

people you should know, show getting out there in his new platform,

I think it reaches more people.

I mean, the return in the favor was neat because it was on Facebook,

but not everybody's on Facebook.

Now it gets to go at a much broader level and reach a whole bunch more

people, which I think is pretty cool.

And he donated even more money.

Got to, you know, showcase this.

Most recent time he gave a hundred thousand dollars.

That goes to scholarships.

So I mean that is gonna get a whole bunch of students the opportunity

to come through and get trained.

You know, I always had his sweat pledge since 2017 that was been right

there when people come into tact.

And so I think when he saw that we were not only just talking the talk,

but walking the walk and aligned with the values that he's been preaching,

I think that helped connect too.

And he's, him and the whole team have been amazing.

And so, I mean, they've really helped us a lot.

When you walked in, what was your emotion?

Becky was messing with me.

She told me there was a leak and we've genuinely have had some water problems.

So like at first it was like, oh crap, like another leak.

Are you serious?

Like, it's one thing when you're there, but it's another thing when

like, you know, now that I'm working with the disability opportunity

office, like, oh gosh, how do I, you know, get there real quick and help.

But seeing him, it was just such a exciting moment because I had

never met him in person until that point too, to like know that he

took the time to actually come.

And then, you know, share whiskey and like the way they edited

it, they just showed at one.

But we finished that glass of whiskey.

So it was kind of nice to have that like long conversation and actually like sit

and talk, you know, just have a really engaging, just genuine conversation.

And I think that's the neatest part about it.

He is incredibly sincere and authentic.

It's not just like this show that he's putting on for the programming,

like he's, he really means it.

And so like you could see that when he is talking to the kids, he

is really listening and excited.

And I think even for him, I think it's exciting for him to learn about this

demographic that is wanting to work, that people aren't talking about that

helps him out to be more successful.

He's a super cool dude.

And you know, as I mentioned, my foundation interviewed him and I got

to meet him for like a brief moment, but it was one of those, you know.

Hey Mike, and you put your arm around him and take a picture.

Yeah, take a photo, right?

Yeah, take a photo op, that type of thing.

But I got to hear him speak at Skills USA in Atlanta last week.

So he was the keynote speaker and he spoke for like 35, 40 minutes.

But a really good background about how he started off and where he is

now, and he's got a different toolbox.

It was all about, you know, how he's changed, uh, you know,

his life and his grandfather, and it's powerful just to hear.

But it's good to hear that he's more or less the same on camera, off camera.

Totally authentic.

Just a cool dude and just wants to help.

That's been my experience a hundred percent.

You also wrote a book, uh, if I'm not mistaken, tell us a little bit about

the book and is the book just come out or that's, tell us a little bit about,

you know, as I mentioned, you know, no one's really copied us and that bothers

me, that nobody's copied us 'cause.

Like I'm talking to, you know, we, we tell everybody how

we're doing what we're doing.

It's not like a secret, like, you know, what's the secret sauce for

Coke kind of thing, or the Dr. Pepper recipe, like, we're open books.

So, um, I ended up writing one and was fortunate enough to get it published,

um, in Manhattan with Ratledge and Taylor Francis, the UK partner.

Uh, when it first came out, I ended up reaching number one in

special education on Amazon, which I thought was pretty cool in the sense

that people are paying attention.

It kind of gives folks the starting conversation.

I would like to suggest to like start reframing the way that they're thinking

about autism education and saying like, Hey, maybe the way that we've gone about

it, educating this community, it's part of the reason they're not being successful.

Like we don't need them to change.

We need to change the environment around them.

Like we're not trying to cure autism, change autism.

We're embracing it wholeheartedly and we need to set them up for success

as who they are as individuals.

That's what the book is trying to address.

So, uh, people can buy at Barnes and Noble or Amazon or wherever they sell

books 'cause that's legit published books.

It's not nothing that I did like self-published or anything like

that, which is kind of cool.

Yeah, I hope people check it out.

What was it like to write a book like that?

Because I hear from different people.

About writing a book and some, you know, it takes a long time to put the

ideas down and get it all together.

What was it like to go through that with everything else that you're doing?

It was a pain in the butt, to be honest with you.

So, because it did, it took a couple years.

There was that, and then, you know, I'm still a reservist in the Air

Force, and at that period of time when I was writing it, I was on

active duty orders and balancing tact.

At the same time too, I fly satellites for the Air Force

and do missile warning stuff.

So I would go to Buckley, work the night shift I'D or the mid shift,

and then go to tact and then.

Downtime would write a book.

And it just was kind of almost like a release though, in the sense of like your

mind is being stretched in so many ways.

It kind of helped get refocused, but it was a pain in the sense the whole

process took at least two years and you'd send it off to the publisher, they'd

give you feedback, you would try again.

And I mean, thankfully the publisher was great and really worked with me.

And then to see it be well received, that was exciting too.

And so to like now see other writers and folks that are neurodivergent.

Advocates.

Recognizing it too helps you feel good that you did something right.

Give us the, uh, title again for the people that wanna look it up.

Here is the book.

Right.

So it's supporting neurodivergent autistic people for their transition

to adulthood, blueprints for education, training and employment.

So you gotta love educational publishers.

They don't let you come up with something shortened, catchy.

It's long in education sounding.

So, sounds like a textbook.

I know, I'm sure.

And that's super exciting for anybody who wants to pick up that book.

Definitely check it out.

You started off in the trades, the Guitar Air Force wrote a book, start attacked.

Do you go back to your, sort of, your roots and do you still play guitar

or that's kind of on the side or it's every so often that you pick it up?

Is it still passion for you?

Yeah, it's now just like hanging out at home, like being lazy

on the couch kind of thing.

Uh, I sold the long fingernails on one hand from doing all

the finger picking stuff.

Yeah, I mean, I'm not as good as I used to be, so that kind of breaks my heart.

I mean, I just haven't kept up with it so.

Yes.

It's so definitely something I love to do for sure.

Until this year, I mean, every summer I would teach instrument building attack.

That was always, even at that point when it got to the point we had so many staffs

and I was no longer teaching the classes, but working with donors or the governance

and operations of the nonprofit, as you know, with the foundation, that's a lot.

And so I would still take the time to teach instrument building every

time, 'cause that was important to me.

We build electric guitars and ukuleles and getting kids to, you

know, manually solder the circuits.

Routers and actually smell the sawdust of making a guitar is

still something I love to do.

Those skills never leave you.

It's just something that's, you know, I remember taking the piano, I also

started playing the guitar during COVID.

It was one of those things.

My neighbor was getting rid of one of the electric guitars.

I'm like, I'll take it.

And my goal was to play Johnny b Goode from, um, back to the Future, which

was, you know, I guess an advanced piece for someone who's just kind of starting

out and went through the process.

So maybe one day if you and I meet in person.

Maybe gimme a tip or two and be flat too.

So you, you picked a fun one for, uh, a guitar to get started.

For sure.

Yeah, a hundred percent.

This was a, an amazing conversation.

Is there anything else that we left out that you would like to share

about your program or anything else that we haven't covered?

I just hope people, you know, go to the website, the build with tax.org.

Check it out.

There's lots of videos, uh, photos of the kids working, the young adults working.

I hope that somebody out there listening to this, you know, is aware that there

is this incredible demographic out there that has so much to offer, would bet money

that a lot of your audience have, you know, somebody they know that's autistic.

Whether it's a child, a neighbor, a niece, a nephew, cousin, whatever

they know folks, they might not know that it's the largest unemployed

demographic in the country, that there is a huge need for more education and

training programs for this community.

And so hopefully they get inspired.

Reach out.

And say, how do we do this too?

Because we need more folks joining us.

For sure.

Now the tools of the trade.

This was, uh, an amazing conversation, but before we sort of wrap up, I

wanted to ask you one final question.

What is one of your special tools of the trade?

What mindset, habit, or piece of advice you can give to a young

person, especially someone.

Who is dealing with autism but wants to step into the skilled trades, what

do they start doing tomorrow for them?

I would say that they need to try and get that opportunity to experience it because,

you know, unfortunately not many programs do, and so if there's a way for them to

go out in the garage, work with mom and dad, put on the lawn mower, you know,

help change the oil, rotating the tires, just something experiencing that with a

loved one or family member or neighbor.

Church member, library, school, whatever opportunity that they

get, get that a chance to try.

I think as a business person, a member of the community, I think it's important

to remember that it's not about us.

You know, one of the things that tax does that's very different you hear a

lot in the educational programs is you always hear about the idea of pedagogy,

which is the idea that the teacher is the deity in the classroom and they are the

commander and they tell everything and the students have to do what they say.

That is not the way that people learn.

And so to switch that and kind of flip it on its head and say, what do

the students need to be successful and how can the teacher change

to be better for the students?

And I hope that people listening to this, and especially if they're an

educator or a trades educator, they'll listen to it and say, you know, if I'm

gonna teach a student to read a tape measure and understand something, it

doesn't have to be the same project where they're all building a toolbox.

There's a million different ways to get them to demonstrate those same schools.

And if you give them that chance to choose what they're doing.

They're gonna be very successful when it's not about you and it's about them.

That changes the narrative of what's possible for them, and finding folks

that are willing to look at it from that perceptive, I think will be helpful.

That is great advice.

You know, especially working with mom and dad and you know, at least tinkering

with things gets you interested in working with your hands and that there

is a program out there that's really, you know, sort of giving back to those

individuals who need that and they're getting offers, they're getting.

Real work.

You know, they're becoming electricians.

There are, you know, they're becoming carpenters or auto mechanics.

It's wonderful to see this and the impact that you're making.

I could see it, you know, us talking, and then I saw it

obviously with you, with Mike Rowe.

It's wonderful to see that how far you've come sort of in your journey by starting

off with your family in the trades.

You didn't want to go into the trades, and then you went into Nashville and

zigzagged around, but you know, everyone finds their path one way or the other.

You turned it around.

Obviously it's amazing what you've done with your son and

what you've turned it into.

So definitely keep up the great work in making that impact.

If people wanna find out more about tact, where do they go?

Social media, website.

Yeah, so TACT is on LinkedIn, um, Facebook.

They can just go to the website, the bull attack.org.

They can Google it.

For me, I'm only on LinkedIn.

It's the only social media that I personally use.

I don't have an X or Twitter or Instagram or any of that kind of stuff.

So, um, if they look me up on LinkedIn, they'll probably find me.

Well, Danny, it's been a blast hearing about your story and thank

you so much for being on the show.

Thank you.

This has been fantastic.

I can't wait to share it with everybody.

I really appreciate the opportunity.

Thank you.

Thank you to our listeners.

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