What if the most important part of your life happens in the gaps? In this episode, we dive into why art is woven into everything — from morning journaling and the creative process to grief, mental health, and finding meaning in a world of AI. A raw, abstract, beautiful conversation about being a creator.

But art is everywhere and we just forget that it is crucial.

It's in the packages, it's in marketing, it's in.

So great art changes depending on what state of mind you look at it, depending on what point of your life you look at it.

How can we not live without art?

This is something that is in human nature.

What are morning pages where you just write in the morning, presumably?

Yeah, it's help.

It helps you like declutter your mind, kind of brain bomb it.

You just sprite everything that is on your mind three pages in the morning while you're still kind of open and your consciousness is open and it helps you to just clear everything.

So you're saying we just go, but we'll get onto the morning pages.

Because I find that's interesting.

But you said that you don't look back over your journal, your diary, your diary entries.

But one of the purposes of what you just said, whatever, what you called it, the mind.

I'm not sure what you said is to look back over the recounts.

Is that correct?

Yes, but I do everything simultaneously.

Like if I want something to like the memory to be sealed, I do like this vibe, journaling visuals and all this stuff, like the junk journaling.

But if I just want to declutter my mind, I just journal.

I just write morning pages.

And.

Well, in the book Artist's Way, Julia Cameron says that you should do this daily consistently and never kind of abandon this.

So yeah, it's like an exercise.

You need to do this in order to stay in a flow state, something like this.

And do you find that when you do your, your morning journals, do you find that there's been an improvement in your day since starting to, to do them?

I think, yes.

Like at first you, you don't notice any changes?

Yes, of course, yeah.

Like it's not doing anything, like, why am I doing this?

But you just need to keep going because it really changes your mind, really changes the way you think.

You start to notice, notice more about yourself, about your inner like, connections with your surroundings, with, with your, I don't know, you start to kind of observe your mindset and your mentality and your values, your ideology.

It's always in there, but like on the back of your mind, in the chaos of your mind.

And when you're writing anything down, it, it becomes clear.

You just, you know, every, every idea is, that is written, it's like half done, you know?

What do you mean half done?

As in every idea is half done.

Like the idea that you write down it is like the.

You.

You kind of place the first brick for the idea to the project to be finished.

Because while it's in your mind, somewhere in there, like, you think that, oh, yeah, I have this idea.

I need to do that.

But if you haven't, like, if you don't write this down, you don't seal the idea.

You know what I mean?

Kind of, like, sloppy.

There's a.

There's.

I think writing things down is a good way of sort of separating out the different parts of your mind so you can analyze them.

You can see that because we try and have internal dialogue conversations with ourselves, but sometimes it's quite complicated to do that without it becoming very messy.

Whereas if you can put things down onto paper, that is a way of achieving that, or at least practicing the ability to do that.

Do you find that it's helped you have more balanced internal conversations with the different parts of yourself?

Weird way of putting it, but it's an accurate way of putting it.

I think so, yes.

But sometimes.

Yeah, your inner critique and inner perfectionist.

And sometimes you just need to step over those voices.

But yeah, sometimes they're really loud.

You need to just dissociate with this and all of this noise.

And like, no, I'm not.

I'm just gonna do this anyway.

Something like this.

And maybe journaling is a good way of Just keep doing it.

Even if that voice is telling you to stop, Just.

Just keep at it.

Okay.

Journaling.

Sick, right?

Do.

Does journaling help you with your.

With your artwork?

Do they overlap?

Yes, I think so.

Not only, like, morning pages, because in morning pages, I just, like, brain bomb it.

I just, like, write everything.

But if I want to write down the idea, I use any platform, like, because I don't have time to understand my writing.

Again, like, when I write down, like.

Like I said, I usually don't come back to this, and if I want to come back to.

To it, like, I write down on my notes, like, on, like, on my phone.

So, like, a little blocks of text, and I can see that my idea is forming.

Like, yeah, I can add something.

I can, like, erase and delete something like this.

And everything is kind of packed in one place, and I should not, like, search it between the pages, like, on my journal.

So is that ideas for your artwork?

That's what.

Is that what you mean?

Yeah, yeah.

If I.

If I want to do, like, a video, if I want to film a video, if I have an idea for that, or if I have an idea for even lyrics, like, I'm writing A song or.

Yeah, I usually start digitally and maybe as I just walk my day live.

And I have a little note with me, like little notes I can write down, like with my pen and paper.

But I usually do everything on my phone.

So writing is for just for myself, like, like writing in, in your diary.

And if that's a work or an idea or filming or any kind of like stuff that is related to art, I use digital platforms.

I'm just trying to find this reel that I saved earlier about this guy who was talking about someone.

Oh, fucking hell.

Such a nightmare.

I don't know if I'll find it.

Anyway, this guy was talking about, I think it might have been Vincent van Gogh or someone who's considered a genius.

And he was saying the way that we perceive genius nowadays is inaccurate.

Or at least the true answer to genius isn't to keep pursuing something in like a chaotic, aggressive manner.

So like, oh, I've got to get all this done now.

It was basically what you just said there.

It was to start with a little idea, then go about your day and let your brain sort of percolate, which is like, I think that's the correct word, sort of mullet over, marinate on it and allow the idea to grow and develop internally.

And then.

Yes, and then.

What's the word?

Consolidate your ideas later on.

Which is basically what you just said.

So is that, Is that something that you do a lot with your, with your art and with your music, etc.

Yes, yes.

It takes a lot of time, like sometimes for a video, like to, to.

In order to make a video, sometimes I need like for a script to form for me to film it and then edit it.

And yes, it may seem very kind of slow paced, but works for me at least I'm finishing something and not abandoning it.

Yeah.

Do you abandon a lot of things?

Do you start them and then not finish them?

Yeah, it happens sometimes.

And you just need to lock in, just finish.

Because like I said, there's voices in your head and they kind of like tell you, oh, it's, it's bad, it's not gonna work.

It's not relatable.

Oh, nobody's gonna get it.

Why are you doing this?

It's not unique, it's not original.

And all these ideas, all of this thoughts and you think, oh, I should like, I should stop doing that.

I should like jump on other idea.

And that's kind of how you not finish something that might have been significant.

You know, I used to make music on, on my laptop and One of the.

Basically what you said.

I guess it's probably a rule for any.

Anyone that talks about creative pursuits would.

Will tell you to finish any project that you start.

And obviously it's really hard.

But I did find that it was quite beneficial to.

Even if I finished it and it was awful unless I basically barely gotten into it, in which case I would just scrap it.

But if I'd done a decent amount and then I decided this is a rubbish, I would still just.

Have you seen that meme of like when you're doing an exam and the time runs out and it's like someone's drawn half a horse is really, really immaculate detail and then the second bit is like.

Like stick characters.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

It's kind of like sometimes you just have to do that I think and just, just get it done.

Maybe, I don't know, it's.

It's a.

Because maybe people say well now I'll come back to it and then I'll complete the horse with as much detail as I originally.

As I with.

But I don't know.

But yes, finishing things is a good skill to learn because it sets a good precedent going forward.

I can't find this real.

So I think it was Vincent van Gogh, but it doesn't matter.

Maybe I didn't save it.

Maybe I just liked it anyway.

Why do you think in your life, why do you think art has been important and why do you think it's important in general?

Think.

Look, in my life I, I always been into art, always being creative.

It just helped me to self express, express myself and to find some, something that you feel like relatable when there's nothing like when there's nothing similar to your thoughts in, in your real life.

Like for example, like art can be really symbolic and art can speak to you in different ways, like different languages, kind of in different stages.

You kind of can.

Like if you're sad and you're listening to sad music, it can really change your sadness into something positive.

Like I don't know how to explain this and I don't know, I think like, like for me art is something that I cannot live without.

Like it's that obvious.

Like how can we not live without art?

This is something that is in, in the human, human nature.

Like something that started back from the first.

Like cavemans that place their palms on the walls and like, oh, I'm here, this is me.

And yeah, like generally speaking, art is a representative of like cultural.

It's like art observing all the people, all the cultures all our emotions.

It can really transfer our like state of mind and create a momentum.

Something like this.

Yeah, I kind of, kind of speak in very abstract way, but I think like art is a little bit abstract.

I was gonna say art is abstract.

So that makes complete sense.

Have you heard the line, all art aspires to the condition of music?

Come again?

All art aspires to the condition of music.

Oh, well, no, I haven't heard of that.

There's a guy called Walter.

I've heard it before, but I didn't know where it originated from.

It's called Walter Pete Peter.

And he wrote in his 18 an essay called the School.

It doesn't matter what it's called, but yes.

Do you think that music is the ultimate art form?

I don't know.

I actually.

I think like any art form is just an ultimate art form.

I think of course people mostly visuals just like in.

On a daily basis.

So I think like visuals are like something that we see like mostly about.

About like music.

I don't know.

It is ultimate, but it's just like a part of art, part of like expression.

Like there's like visual, audio, maybe like other.

Like textural, like.

And I believe that the first art form that was like ever created, kind of created was poetry and kind of lyrics.

Because like it wasn't like back then writing systems like in the old age and like a Bronze Age and like before.

Before and people kind of needed to pass their own knowledge to like their youngsters and they didn't use the dialogues, they didn't like speak like that.

They used music.

They used like songs or poetry and like the myths.

Because it's something that you can really remember, like the rhythmic, like the rhymes.

Much more like easier to remember than just a big blocks of text.

So I think the first art form that was ever created, I believe it was poetry and music because people gather.

Like people would gather around the cat, like the fire and tell the stories and tell what is like out there.

Like all these bards, the musicians, they could like travel around and pass like mess the messages and news.

And they were like using music.

So I believe yeah, maybe.

Maybe the ultimate art form is music and music and poetry, I guess.

And you write poetry, don't you?

I do, but I.

But I don't consider myself a poet or something like that.

I think it's just like something that came out from writing lyrics, writing songs.

It's not the same because I've noticed that if I write a song, I don't see it as a Poem, I don't see it as a poetry, just like a lyric for a song, a lyrics for a song.

And when I write, like.

Like a poem, I cannot turn in something that I struggle with, so I keep it, like, divided.

There's poetry that you can write, and there's, like, lyrics for songs that you can write.

Oh, so you don't think that.

You don't think they're interchangeable?

I think I know that there are some people who can turn poems into music and, like, lyrics into poems.

But whenever I try it, like, it's a little bit sloppy because whenever I music, I write, like, I think of the melody first, and then on the melody, I kind of write, like, the lyrics, the words.

It's like you're creating this jewels, you know what I mean?

And when it comes to poetry, you think of just, like, general flow, general expression.

What do I want to say?

And you're not tied to the melody.

So.

Yeah, that's a. I mean, I always wonder, do artists start with the music or with the songs?

First, I imagine it's the.

The music or the lyrics?

First, I imagine it would be the lyrics, but I guess actually it could be either.

To be honest, there's no logical reason why it would have to be the music first.

It could easily be if you've got a song that you've written.

Have you heard.

I really love this idea, and I think this is quite true for life.

I'm not sure who it was.

Drake.

I heard Drake say it, but it wouldn't have been Drake that said it.

He said something like the real melody.

The real melody in music lies in the gaps between the music.

Something like that.

The real melody is in the gaps.

Let me see if I can find it.

Do you get.

Do you get that?

Yeah, I think I understand.

Music in the gaps of melody or melody in the gaps of music.

So the real melody.

So you know what I mean when I say melody, don't you?

It's like the melody line.

So you've got the harmony, which is obviously.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm not.

I'm just.

Just double checking.

So he said that the true melody is the notes that you don't play or the space in between the notes that make up the melody.

I thought that was quite.

I've always thought that was a really interesting way of looking at it, how you could change the music by putting a different note, changing the rhythm at which the notes move.

You just mentioned the word rhythm, didn't you?

But.

And I think life's.

Sometimes I Think life's a bit like that.

Sometimes the true.

Your actual life isn't necessarily the things that happen or who you are as a person isn't necessarily you are the person during the gaps between your life when there's nothing going on, when there's.

There's nothing.

When you're just on your own.

I feel like that's kind of who you are more than when you are.

When you're doing something.

Maybe.

I don't know.

But I think it's a really interesting topic as a concept that is, you know, like most things, it's applicable in many areas.

But, yeah, I don't.

I just.

Who said.

Who said that?

I kind of remember this line.

Lyrics.

I think it's John Lennon, like, life is what happens when you're busy making other plans or something like this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, yeah, it's this in between moment.

And that's why we need to stay present as as much as possible.

Like, it is, like, a very hard thing for me, like, to do, to be present.

Because you're always kind of in your mind, either in a past or in a future.

Or maybe you're, like, in your world that you created, but not in present, and life just passes and you kind of need to, like, to come back to the present moment and just enjoy what you have.

Like, even if that's not entirely what you want to have right now.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

It was Debussy, not Drake, obviously Claude Debussy, who said, those who don't understand hear the sounds, and those who understand hear the silence.

The gaps between two sounds.

The real music is in the gaps.

The real music is in the.

I think that's a good metaphor for life, though.

What it.

Side change, topic change.

What's it like living in Russia at the moment?

Is it okay?

Is it getting better?

That's all right.

Not in.

Not entirely picky subject.

What sort of.

Could be better.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What.

How do you plan on growing the music?

Well, I have this, like.

I kind of challenged myself recently.

I went to write an album and I kind of want to do everything on my own, like, kind of because I don't have, like, a big budget to have a team.

Yeah.

Maybe, like, as I start doing, maybe I'll find someone to collaborate like people.

But I just figured that I'm.

I'm really good on my own.

Whenever I, like, decided to collaborate with other, like, composer or other, like, musician.

It is very hard to find someone with the same kind of music taste, with the same vision, with the Same ideas.

And like, you really need to search and search and search.

And until I haven't found the right person to collaborate, I decided just to do everything on my own.

And I kind of have this challenge where I want to produce, like to make song, to produce it, mix master.

I don't know how to mix and master.

Well, I kind of need to figure this out and that promote.

And I want to document all this journey because I think it's kind of cool to see how like to document like the.

The reason why I do this because of.

I want to come back to my journey to see everything like how I did this and especially like the.

The second reason is to motivate every.

Everyone else.

Like you can do this too.

So.

Yeah.

And also like, I have.

I have a degree in music management.

I kind of like going to.

Yeah.

To use every knowledge that I have.

So.

Yeah.

What does music management involve, as in managing, working in the industry?

Actually, we had a lot of different fields that were focusing on like, they were like one part where we were focusing on creating like performing just like vocal piano lessons, acting lessons, dancing, all this stuff, like all the artsy stuff.

And on the other half, like, we had like management, promoting all this, like, like music industry, how to do that, how to like kind of form a society, all this stuff, like music theory, music history.

So kind of like I love when you can consume everything at once, like creation and promotion as well.

Because like in.

In today's world, like in real life, it really, like, I think it's the biggest talking, it's the biggest skill, like a greatest skill to actually place yourself and to promote yourself.

Because we have like this Internet and it can change lives if you really promote yourself in a really, like in a good light.

Well, I think the next step for you then would be to start putting your songs on the back in the background of your edits, on your Instagram.

Yeah, yeah.

Or create like different kind of films.

I've seen this recently.

I don't know like if you've seen it or not.

There's a lot of artists, musicians, they promote their songs in the very like, like very seemingly.

You don't understand.

You're watching a promotion for music because it starts like a general, like storytelling video and you're like, oh, it's interesting.

It's either like an, like a cultural commentary and you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, it's interesting.

Or just some trash story.

And then like, boom.

They start like placing like there's like a music placement in there and you're like, oh, it was like a promotion of their, of their song.

That's cool.

That's original.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, that's.

And you've got to leverage your, your audience so that, that, that would be because it's so hard to break into the industry nowadays because there's.

The barrier to entry is so much have been.

What would you say they've been mitigated.

They're so much less than they used to be.

But that in that, in the double edged sword of that is that you can get in just by having a social media presence but also anyone else can get in just by having a social media presence.

So it's, it's tricky to get noticed.

But you've already, you know, you've got following and you've got, you could definitely.

I think documenting it would be a really cool thing to do given your, your ability filming, filming the journey.

I mean like nowadays people just say just film everything, film everything and try and make content out of it.

I think that's a lot of content creators who speak about the con, the concept as a whole, preach that idea about how anything could be content because people are dying out for authenticity, which is obviously what you, which is what you bring because your, your videos are very unique.

So I'm sure your music is just as unique.

Thank you.

So I originally messaged you to talk about mental health, didn't I?

Let's talk about it.

Is that something that relates to your art?

Is that something that you.

That relate, that is linked?

I think yes.

Because, well, it's a little bit like vulnerable thing to say, but like I lost my mother like five years ago and I think after that it was like this dark state of mind where you think like everything is meaningless.

And I kind of stopped dreaming and kind of stopped like aiming for something bigger and just art helped me to understand myself, understand it like there is still like life and I have this passion for life when I'm creating something because like creating something from the void, from nothingness is something so like shocking to me all the time.

Whenever I create something I'm like, oh, it was nothing.

Like five minutes ago, there were nothing.

Yeah.

Crazy phenomenon, isn't it?

Yeah.

And of course like it's not from nothing.

You kind of have all this background, all this experience or you want to do some, something similar to what you've seen like your peers doing, but it's, it's still like you're creating something and it is amazing and like I'm always in awe, you know, and what Was the question.

God, it was.

No, that's good.

It means you're.

You're in.

You're in the state.

I like that it was.

How does art mix in with your mental health?

How does it associate with it?

And then you mentioned.

So, yeah, I think, like, whenever you think that you're alone, that your experience is not, like, significant.

Just creating art and especially sharing it, you can create it and keep it with yourself, but it's better to share it.

Of course, it's really scary because you're afraid to, like, to be seen, to be judged and all the other stuff.

But, like, you will find that your experience is not that unique.

It is unique, but it is universal.

Every person, like, not every person, but kind of like a lot of people right now is experiencing, like this.

I don't know, death.

It is inevitable.

People will experience it at any time, right.

In their lifetime.

Like, it will be maybe very serious to them or that serious.

But it is a universal feeling of losing someone.

And if you create something and share it, you will find that I'm not.

I'm not alone in that.

I'm okay.

And I think that's something that the art can help you with, like your mental state and all this stuff.

I think what's great about art is good art, is that it reflects back to you something unique to the way that you view it compared to everyone else.

It's kind of like a.

Do you know what a Rorschach test is?

Sounds like a Russian word.

So probably, yeah, it's like the painting.

And everybody sees differently.

Yeah, everyone sees differently.

Yeah, it's kind of like that, but in a far more dignified, sophisticated manner.

Another thing that's really good about art is it's like a living entity.

So great art changes depending on what state of mind you look at it, depending on what point of your life you look at it.

So that's how you.

That's how you know it can speak to you on multiple different levels and in multiple different ways.

So, yeah, I think a lot of people.

I know that I don't spend enough time in the presence of art, but it's.

It's.

It's hard nowadays because it's.

I don't know.

I think maybe it's different in Russia.

I mean, the UK is quite.

The UK is not a great country at the moment.

At all, to be fair.

I can't actually.

It's not going to be worse than Russia, is it, though?

Unfortunately.

But.

Yeah, but people don't spend enough time in the company of art, do they?

It has the capacity to enrich people's lives.

Even if you don't really appreciate it, I still think it has the ability to do something that other things are incapable of doing.

Do you get what I mean?

It's unique today.

It's actually very sad that, like, in a modern world we kind of.

We have all this AI and like this machinery that like, we forget that we are the creators.

Like, every person has this creativity inside of them.

And because we go like, and do some stuff that we think it's not linked to creative kind of like flow.

We think, oh, I'm not that, like, I'm just.

I'm not creative.

I'm not.

I'm not doing art.

What?

Like, art is not helping me to pay bills or something like this, you know, but art is everywhere.

And like, we just forget that.

It is crucial.

It's in.

It's in a packages, it's in a marketing, it's in.

It's on a street.

Like, if you just look at your daily life from art perspective, like the way the road is manufactured, it's in.

In some cases it's even like in.

It's art.

You know, the buildings, the architecture, everything around is art.

So.

Yeah, but that's.

Wow.

Everything is.

Everything is art.

I don't know if you can say everything is art because surely if everything's art, nothing is art.

It's a.

It's a.

Everything is.

Everything is being created.

That's something you could say.

But I don't know if everything is art.

Everything has been the same way.

Okay, you go.

I really believe that everything can be art.

It's just like the.

Art is something the human create.

Of course, like we.

We don't call nature art.

It is like an art, but something that was created like, by the ultimate creator.

Like, art is like artificial, like something that we created.

And therefore, like everything that is created by human can be considered as art.

Like, maybe like there's different levels of art.

Something like, wow.

Something very elevating or something that adds like a.

Like a base basis of art.

Everything that you see every day, like posters on the streets or like, like anything.

You know, the way that.

The way the phone is like originally was designed.

Why is it like in a, like, rectangle shape?

It was like kind of.

It's kind of is art.

So, you know, this idea of like, I. I assume it's like pop art when, like you place ready to mate.

Like when you place something and you have a name, you name something and it's it's an exhibition, it's an art.

Like if I think it's like Duchamp with his, with his fountain.

Have you seen it?

Like it's a, it's a toilet.

Like it's an exhibition like of a toilet and it is named like a fountain.

So yeah, I think the, the art is also in a naming how you name how you like see the thing like in a different kind of beauty,.

Eye of the beholder type stuff.

Yeah, yeah.

That's like.

I don't know if that.

It's a good, It's a good.

Actually you sparked a good concept because what you're sort of saying is that art is subjective, which is fair enough, art is subjective.

But I wonder if that's, that's a very man made concept that the idea.

Well no, it's a very commercially man made concept.

The idea that something can be art because we just place value on it.

Because for the sake of it, it's like someone what is it?

It's the worth isn't in, isn't necessarily in the objective, the objective object.

It's subjectively.

What's the word?

It's been subjectively thrust upon it.

So you could have a good example videos.

You could have Elvis's guitar.

Now Elvis is a guitar from the time period of Elvis is probably worth.

I don't know, it'll be worth probably quite a lot but because Elvis's guitar is going to be worth infinitely more.

But it's just a guitar but it's not just a guitar.

So I don't know, I feel like that does that sort of relate to the idea of the toilet with the fountain?

Like it's a toilet but it's not, it's a fountain.

And obviously my mind as it does has gone to.

That's something that can be manipulated because you could just, I don't know, say here's a piece of art written, made by da da da da and sell it for.

Set it for exponentially more than it should be.

Do you get that?

How aspect of worth is?

I think the thing like the thing is art has different kind of layers and it can be sloppy.

It would be bad.

Art can be bad.

And that's I think that's the thing where most of artists like can be stuck.

Can be stuck and like can become like lost because you have this perfectionism in your mind and you think I need to create a masterpiece and you don't create anything because you are in this like state of mind.

Like I need to create a very good Art.

Very, very good art.

But you will not be able to create a good art if you are not making art.

Like.

Like, as we, like, talked about, finish the project.

It may be sloppy, may be bad, maybe, like, not good, and people won't like it, but it's still art.

Because you kind of.

Maybe right now you don't have skill and an ability to, like, to transfer your thoughts and expressions into art, but it's, like, the best that you could do right now.

So.

Yeah.

And as, like, I understand what you say, like, it's kind of.

It's kind of scary that everything can be art and anyone can just place, I don't know, like, a pen.

And that's my.

That's my sculpture that I did.

I don't know.

This is it.

And, like, it can be.

And it can be sold, like, for.

For a million.

But I don't want to be a person who says that.

But if it sells, it means it sells.

If it sells, that means somebody needs this.

Somebody needs this pen to look at this pen from the different.

Like, from the different side, and somebody will pay for this.

It doesn't mean it's good, doesn't mean it's, like, the art that will stay, like, in a history, the legacy, but it is something that somebody needed at that, like, time.

And I think that's what art is meant for, like, is a need for someone.

You know what I mean?

Art is meant for a need.

Supply and demand, isn't it?

I guess.

Do you know that.

That phrase, supply and demand?

No.

It means.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Supply and demand.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think art.

I don't know if art is meant.

What do I think art is meant for?

I think art is meant to give people.

Creating opportunities for people to build a relationship with something greater than themselves.

You could use the word, like, divine.

Some sort of divine.

Some sort of universal.

I don't know.

Yeah.

It can create a window that takes people out of, like, when we're.

This conversation, I think, is a form of art because you and I are putting our minds together and we're creating a new entity out of our conversation.

We're creating something different, both verbally, obviously, because we're both.

Because we're talking, both intellectually, because we're having ideas based on what other people say, but also almost.

I don't.

Is the word spiritually.

It's probably not spiritually.

I think it is.

We're.

We're creating.

Maybe.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

We're creating something, I think, new.

I think everything spiritual.

You think what everything.

Every what is spiritual?

Every art is spiritual.

Like you kind of.

Yeah.

Maybe not like the one that you just do for the cloud.

Not.

Not the one that you.

I just will make art and market.

Not.

Not maybe this one.

Not the art that you make for, but maybe the one that elevates you, the one that warms your heart.