Women, Fashion, and Consumerism: Part 1
In the first episode of this three-part series, I’m joined by a panel of experts for an in-depth discussion on the intersection of women, fashion, and consumerism. We explore WHY it's so challenging to change your buying habits, and discuss some compelling stats about fast fashion’s environmental impact.
As well as sharing personal anecdotes (and some hilarious sidetracks), we also provide practical advice to foster more mindful and sustainable fashion choices, emphasising the importance of self-expression, creativity, and ultimately, a deeper connection with your wardrobe.
Guests:
Mentioned in this episode:
About the show:
This is Reloved Radio: Sustainable Fashion Stories, the fortnightly show that brings you inspiring stories from guests who are making a positive impact in the sustainable fashion space.
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Credits:
Music: 'Old Leather Sneakers' by PineAppleMusic
Welcome to the first episode of our three part series,
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:exploring the dynamic intersection
of women, fashion, and consumerism.
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:I'm your host, Chryssius Dunn, and
I'm joined by a panel of experts who
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:bring a wealth of knowledge and insight
to the table around these topics.
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:We have a gentle coach, Vive Oldham,
who has a compassionate approach to
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:mindful living and has inspired countless
individuals to break free from the
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:constraints of societal expectations.
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:Next, we welcome money coach Jacinta
Ebsworth, who specialises in encouraging
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:women to cultivate a healthy relationship
with money and align their spending
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:habits with their values and aspirations.
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:Joining us as well is sustainable fashion
expert and personal stylist Hazel Law,
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:who has a deep understanding of ethical
fashion practices and specialises
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:in curating "wearable wardrobes".
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:And last, but certainly not least, we
have someone who, in her own words, is op
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:shop obsessed and a vintage loving girly.
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:You probably know her as
"Routinely A Mess" on Insta,
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:but we know her as Charlie.
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:And in fact, it absolutely would
not surprise any of us if she was
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:recording this from an op shop.
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:The topic of today's episode is
"Consumption and Habit Change".
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:Why is it so hard to stop buying?
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:And we're going to be talking
about the complexities of fast
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:fashion consumption, the societal
pressures faced by women and the
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:life-changing power of mindful shopping.
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:I want to start with a couple of stats,
which I personally find horrifying.
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:Firstly, a recent study conducted by the
Australian Fashion Council and Central
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:Queensland University reports that
Australians send 200, 000 tons of clothing
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:and textiles to landfill every year.
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:And secondly, on average, every
Australian buys 56 items of clothing
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:yearly, most of which are made from
non-sustainable, non-durable materials.
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:Hazel, I want to start with you
because I know in your role as
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:a sustainable stylist, you're
very familiar with these stats.
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:How do they reflect broader
global trends in fast fashion and
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:its impact on the environment?
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:Hazel: I'd like to start
with the environmental piece.
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:And I think that, you know, it's easy
for us to, as one person, think, Oh,
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:I'm just going to buy one cheap t shirt.
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:I'm just going to buy one cheap dress.
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:And that's that.
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:It's not really going to have an
impact on the rest of the world.
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:But, you know, if each person in the
world, 8 billion of us, or however many it
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:is now are thinking that, you can see how
that can really easily start to add up.
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:And I think that what we actually
need to realise is that fashion is the
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:second biggest polluter in the universe.
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:I'm not sure about the universe,
guys in the world, though in
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:the planet that we live on.
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:And in order to really start to change
the trajectory of the climate crisis,
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:we have to get a handle on what we're
doing, when it comes to fast fashion and
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:when it comes to our wardrobes and when
it comes to our approach to consumption
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:and without starting to uncouple
our personal style with consumption,
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:I'm not sure how else to do that.
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:That's the number one thing.
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:I've been reading a book recently, it's
"The Anti Capitalist Book of Fashion"
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:and it says, it's a sad day for the world
when the word fashion came into place
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:because it basically started the the idea
of trends and before it was just style,
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:it was personal style, it was dressing
for ceremony, you know, it was all of
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:those things and now we're on a trend
treadmill and we can't seem to get off.
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:Chryssius: And the fallout from the fast
fashion industry, it disproportionately
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:impacts women, both as consumers and also
as workers in the garment supply chain,
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:Hazel: Absolutely.
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:So, you know, it's the women who are also
the most affected by climate change and by
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:the impact that the fast fashion industry
is currently having on our planet.
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:Women are the most likely to actually
be negatively impacted by that.
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:You know, let alone all of the
women workers who have to leave
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:their families to make a living.
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:And even women in the global North,
we're targeted by fast fashion.
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:We are the people who spend our
hard-earned money and spend our
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:hard-earned time and energy collecting
these fast fashion pieces because we're
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:basically being trolled by the fashion
industry and primed to constantly buy.
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:Chryssius: Charlie, as someone who's,
who I know has recently made a conscious
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:effort to shop slower, why do you think
it's so hard for us and when I say us, I
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:mean specifically women, to stop buying?
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:Charlie: I really believe that
there's a level of pre-programming
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:already within us from what
we've absorbed from social media.
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:Even back, like when I was in high school,
I remember when it would come to the
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:weekend and we'd have parties and things
and me and my friends, we would talk about
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:what we were going to wear and even at the
age of 14, there was that pre-programming
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:that we had to go and get a new top.
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:And we used to always go to KOOKAÏ and
pick out like the new top of the week.
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:And most of the time what was happening
was we were seeing the ones that the
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:girls that were a bit older than us
were-wearing and we would just, buy
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:that because what we were seeing them
do, we didn't see people ahead of
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:us re-wearing and being like really
advocating for that re-wearability
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:and that slow consumption mindset.
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:And one thing that was different for
me, and I like kind of began that
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:UN pre-programming with myself, was
I couldn't afford to do that and
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:go to KOOKAÏ and buy that $60 top.
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:And I used to go to the op shop and
see if I could find something similar.
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:And eventually like I had this little
kind of capsule wardrobe within my
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:wardrobe as a teenager, but I still
remember my friends and I like feeling
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:as though we had to keep consuming
and we had to keep changing things.
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:We couldn't wear the same thing twice,
although we were just going to a friend's
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:house, like there wasn't, we weren't going
to any sort of grand event or anything.
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:Right.
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:But one thing that has really
shifted that I think is when people
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:have hiring businesses and that's
clothes swapping ethics and seeing
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:how people share their wardrobes
and look and go deeper into that.
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:And I think it all comes back to that
pre-programming from social media and
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:those external influences that have
made us believe that new is better.
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:And that we need to constantly be
changing and be doing something
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:different, even if we wore something once.
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:Chryssius: I agree it is so ingrained
from such a young age, whether
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:it's magazines or whether it is the
slightly older generation that we're
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:looking up to, whether that be in high
school or whatever, it's everywhere.
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:Charlie: Absolutely, and as someone
who's been at a high school for a
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:little while, but it's so interesting
that was happening when I was in high
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:school and I still even notice it now.
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:And I always refer to myself as a "retired
influencer" because I was in that scene
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:a couple years ago, and even then there
were certain parts that were in that
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:where we all wore something different
to every single event and you didn't
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:want to be photographed or create a
reel or anything in the same outfit that
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:you wore to the event the week before.
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:And I feel like I'm beginning to see
a shift in that with people being
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:more conscious and re-wearing and just
changing the accessories or having
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:more fun with a garment or belting or
doing something with it to evolve it.
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:But, that pre-programming, I think,
is still there, and that deprogramming
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:has to be motivated by self, and
people have to want to do it.
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:It almost needs to
become trendy, in a way.
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:We need that to hit the trend treadmill.
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:And we've already seen, like, such a big
part of that come through with the op
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:shopping trend that's come through earlier
this year, which really has peaked, I'd
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:say it was around January, February.
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:We saw the big peak of that thanks to the
"mob wife" trend that came through because
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:what happened was no one could find the
biggest thing from the mob wife trend, say
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:that in quotation, was that furs and all
those animal prints were coming back in.
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:And these fast fashion companies,
although they're very fast, they
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:cannot produce a quality faux fur...
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:or a fur, at the rate that
is accessible to people.
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:So immediately the biggest trend that
came through was actually turning
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:to vintage sellers and op shopping
in order to find these garments.
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:And already like we're in May and we're
seeing people actually even consume too
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:fast in an op shop, which was meant to
be one of the most sustainable options.
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:So.
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:That's jumped on the treadmill and
that I really believe has come from
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:that mob wife aesthetic theme that
was coming through late December,
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:January, February of this year.
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:Chryssius: I love to see that
something positive is coming from
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:a trend, a fast fashion trend.
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:I have to say that.
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:Charlie: I was so lucky, when that trend
spiked, I was actually in Copenhagen.
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:So , I felt so lucky because I was
in this amazing fashion capital and
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:I could spend all day just sitting
on the street and just watching
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:these amazing people walk by and just
shamelessly dressing for themselves.
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:And, yeah.
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:I remember I'd actually thought to
myself, there's one piece that I
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:really would like to buy and I really
wanted to find a vintage faux fur.
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:If the right fur came along, maybe
I would have to think about that for
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:myself, but I really wanted to find one.
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:And it was funny because within a few
days of that, I thought it was just
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:my FBI, AI person that had gone on my
phone and suddenly they were everywhere.
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:And then this mob wife aesthetic
kind of started rolling through
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:and I went, what is going on?
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:And there was this woman that runs an
account on Instagram where she talks
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:about all the analytics of Pinterest,
TikTok, and Instagram and everything.
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:And she was saying this mob wife
aesthetic was coming in and it was
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:around the 20th year of the Sopranos.
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:And apparently that has influenced that,
but realistically, you can't get good
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:quality faux fur and fur from these
fast fashion places in order to buy new.
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:You're spending a very large amount of
money that isn't as accessible by people.
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:So the masses were turning to these
resellers, which is just amazing.
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:But like that was available and
people started changing their mindsets
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:about shopping secondhand, which
I even saw a shift in the people I
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:was friends with going, "Oh, I don't
want to go to the op shop with dirty
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:clothes", to "Oh, yeah, it's vintage!"
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:Vintage.
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:Love the word vintage.
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:It always has this different
flair to it, and my mindset is I
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:always laugh and say if it was a
family heirloom, it's priceless.
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:But if it's a family heirloom
that you've picked up from the op
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:shop, suddenly it's a little bit
more dirty or not as valuable.
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:There's been a big shift in that.
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:And I definitely agree with you.
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:There has been a really
positive shift from it.
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:I just hope that now it doesn't keep
cycling around too fast and we end up
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:with op shops, even more full of clothes
that are just fast fashion and people
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:are not being mindful with what they
are even buying from the op shop or
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:just thinking, "Oh I'll just donate it."
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:Like there even is a thought
process that needs to go on before
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:you donate and how you do that
or why you're donating so much.
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:Vive: I think it's really fascinating
because what you're describing,
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:Charlie, is like the trends, but
the trends being to buy preloved.
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:So it's not actually getting beneath
the surface of the behaviour.
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:It's like the trends are still happening.
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:It's just a trend of a different nature.
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:And the trend is buying
preloved, which is, great.
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:But still, what is it in getting a
vintage piece that they're longing?
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:Like, what are they longing to have?
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:And that's I think, at the basis
of the behaviour change question is
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:like, what are they really needing?
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:What is it that's driving that
urge to have that particular piece?
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:And I'm curious for you, Charlie, like,
what is it about the fur that you were
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:thinking about wanting in Copenhagen
that really drives like, what was
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:it about the fur that you, for why
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:Charlie: So my little, I
love what you're saying.
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:I completely agree that now
all of a sudden going to
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:the op shop is hyper trendy.
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:And like, have we really
hit that sustainable mark?
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:I think I even put up either a
Instagram post when it came up.
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:And this is when I was starting
to get a little bit more vocal
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:about how I felt about fashion and
building that confidence to be vocal.
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:Cause for a long time, I wasn't very vocal
about the fact that all my clothes are
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:secondhand and like being mindful of, you
know, what I'm consuming, how, and all
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:that, and how much I love pop culture and.
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:But what, what, really shifted was
like realising that, The, when I
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:saw that and got more vocal, I went,
okay, I thought that when this mob
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:wife aesthetic, and we all started
turning to these vintage sellers,
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:that things were going to get better.
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:I thought it was going to be the shift.
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:I even put up a post saying, hopefully
this is the catalyst for some change.
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:And I mean, yes, people are talking about
it, but I totally agree with you in that
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:now people are just consuming even more
and more, but now it's from secondhand.
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:So they're consuming at a cheaper rate.
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:But for me personally, the fur
one, that goes back forever.
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:When I was younger, I used to
go through magazines, I used to
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:cut out clothes that I liked.
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:And because I was always going to like
secondhand markets as a kid, going to
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:op shops, most of my clothes back then
were also from op shops and secondhand.
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:I used to cut out things that I wanted
and I'd put them on like a little piece
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:of paper, like a little vision board.
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:And we're talking from when I was
like under the age of 10 doing this.
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:And one thing I always
wanted, I had a few things.
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:I wanted a really nice leather jacket.
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:Whether it was faux or just a
really nice cool biker jacket.
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:It's all I ever wanted was that
because I loved the way that it felt.
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:I loved the way that a good quality
garment felt in like an emotional sense.
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:With that and the fur thing was actually
what I'd wanted for a really long time
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:but I had a bit of like guilt by like
dressing nice and dressing myself up
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:or being ceremonial with the way that
I put outfits and clothes together and
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:around last year I had a big shift in
that and I remember I had this like
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:faux fur dream I'm gonna find a really
cool coat that I wear shamelessly.
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:I just, I love it.
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:And when I was in Copenhagen and
I witnessed these particular girls
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:just dressing for themselves,
dressing for the fun of it,
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:dressing for the whole energy of it.
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:It was just different.
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:I thought, why am I not doing this?
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:Vive: I think that comes back to that
piece around and you were talking
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:about this, like this conditioning to
need the new piece for the party that
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:you were going to, or the new top and
this sense that which I don't know if
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:everyone would agree with this, but
there's a sense that women have been
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:trained by culture to be desirable rather
than to learn what it is they desire.
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:And so when you see someone who
really is in touch with what they
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:desire, especially a woman, and then
they're dressing to express that,
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:it's so, enigmatic and captivating
and interesting because suddenly it's
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:dressing for themselves rather than
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:Hazel: Yes, Vive!
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:Charlie: Absolutely.
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:I I just wanted to scream.
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:As you were saying that, like, yes.
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:And gosh, I sound very stereotypical and
saying "Copenhagen changed everything for
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:me", but it did because as a society in
Denmark or that the little space that I
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:was in, I was seeing men, women people...
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:ddressing for themselves and
like just shamelessly doing it.
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:Like there was this woman, I remember I
was sitting, having a pastry and a coffee.
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:It was like two degrees and I'm so cold.
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:And I, all I could think about was that
I'm cold and this woman walks past me and
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:she's in this coat and it was embroidered
in this like rainbow colour, but it was
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:white on the base and her hair's swishing.
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:And she just looked so incredible
and so comfortable and happy.
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:And I went.
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:Whoa, that's it.
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:That's it.
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:There's no, I'm not judging her.
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:I am judging her.
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:I'm judging her on how her, like
her whole energy just shifted.
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:And it wasn't that I wanted the coat.
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:I wanted her energy.
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:And I wanted to have
that level of confidence.
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:And at the end of the day, she
takes off the coat, but she's
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:still that woman underneath.
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:And when we shift that,
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:when we shift that and we go what
am I without the clothes and the
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:clothes just help a little bit more.
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:And I fully believe that every day you get
dressed, you set the tone for yourself.
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:You, if you dress in bright colours,
you wouldn't be surprised if more
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:bright things come into your sphere.
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:If you I'm a kindergarten teacher when
I'm not doing all of this and I wear
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:rainbow skirts to work . And it's funny
that on days that I may not be feeling
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:as great, if I put on a rainbow skirt,
like a glittery rainbow skirt, and I've
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:got this one that shines if you, if I
stand in the light, it just, there's
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:something that lifts in me that goes.
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:I did this.
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:I set the intention for myself just to be
a little bit more bright and a little bit
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:more bold and whether that is helping me
work through what's going on underneath.
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:But I remember when I took off that
skirt, I actually just felt better and
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:I was ceremonial with the way that I
chose myself and I chose to show up as
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:myself to the world and present myself.
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:And I think that is really powerful.
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:And I just hope that people start
to want to be motivated to want
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:to do that for themselves too.
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:Because you have to want to do that.
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:Hazel: People are such a vital component
of fashion, like without people, fashion,
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:style, trends, none of that matters.
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:None of that actually, like, it doesn't
have an impact unless we buy into that.
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:So like that whole piece that you
were just saying about really, truly
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:feeling yourself really, truly feeling
your own personal style come through,
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:regardless of trending, regardless of
whatever it is that we're being sold.
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:Without people, fashion is nothing, and
without the symbols that the fashion
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:that we buy into actually provides.
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:Again, it doesn't mean anything, like,
we're searching for these symbolic
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:values in the clothes that we wear, and
these symbolic I guess just like the
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:way that we really portray ourselves
in the world, but it's the symbols that
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:the clothes stand for as opposed to
what they actually are, which is like
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:garments made from violence essentially.
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:Vive: And I think.
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:Like as you guys were both talking, I
was thinking about how clothes are just
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:another art form and fashion isn't, you
know, and maybe perhaps not fashion.
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:Maybe we don't use that word, but
clothes adorning a body is just another
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:way of expressing like Charlie said,
how you're longing to feel or what
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:you're longing to bring back to the
world or how you're wanting to make
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:others feel with how you're dressing.
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:And it's also a wonderful
experiment that people can do.
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:And I think particularly of teenagers
who are going through a phase of
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:really wrestling with authenticity
and belonging and trying on a
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:bunch of personas like, Who am I?
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:Am I this goth?
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:Am I?
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:I'm sorry.
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:That's probably a really dated word.
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:Am I?
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:You know, who, who are all these
different types of characters that I
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:can try on to find, you know, where I'm
fitting for this for the time being.
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:And in some ways we do that
our whole lives, but perhaps
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:we're not always completely
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:Hazel: Yeah, definitely.
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:Like, matrescent is such a
huge part of that for me.
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:I was like, oh, I'm a mum now.
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:I have to wear striped t shirts.
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:Cue me going to the shops and buying
striped t shirts, which I obviously
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:never wore because I am that goth.
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:Charlie: as you're saying.
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:I have to keep muting myself.
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:A
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:Chryssius: So basically what you're
saying is that we all need to find our
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:own version of Charlie's rainbow skirt.
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:Hazel: Yeah, exactly.
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:But within what you've got it
in your wardrobe already, you
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:don't need to go out and buy it.
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:Like it's in your wardrobe curated stuff
that you spent your, you know, your
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:precious time, energy and money buying.
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:You have it, it just might
not have been getting worn.
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:Chryssius: Such a valid point.
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:Charlie: Agree with that.
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:One hundred and thousand million percent.
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:If I could throw a couple more on that.
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:A hundred percent, there is.
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:There's so much that you already
have and you don't realise it.
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:There is a point that you have to not
have to, you choose to maybe step back
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:and reflect on what you have and whether
that is already showing up as you,
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:whether you're feeling at the deepest
point, like are you feeling shame with
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:what you're-wearing and you enjoying it?
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:And then purposefully, if you are choosing
then to, to re, to reconsume or consume,
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:to actually then love what you get,
like to go, okay, the striped shirt.
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:I had to, I had to really try not
to tackle so much during that.
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:If you look at your wardrobe and you don't
feel a sense of belonging or a sense of
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:connection to that, do your best to rework
and if you do decide to begin purchasing
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:again and participate in that, know
what it is you're after and throw, strap
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:yourself to that rocket, strap yourself to
that rocket and you will be so surprised
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:at how you EASY it is to find that.
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:Vive: And Charlie, what you were
saying about those new tops, as
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:you were talking, I was thinking,
what were you looking for?
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:Were you looking for a
feeling of freshness?
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:And it's like when you start to kind of
think about, and I do this now before
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:I buy clothes, I think to myself,
what am I really actually wanting?
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:I want to feel like you might be
fresh or I want to feel more...
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:creative in how I'm looking
like and understanding what it
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:is that's kind of driving the
that longing for that new thing.
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:And could I where else could I get it?
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:Like thinking about those strategies,
where else, "how else could I
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:make myself feel like that?"
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:could be the transformational pivot point
for not needing to go out and buy the
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:Charlie: Are you inside my head?
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:Hazel: Are you inside me?
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:Is that what you just said?
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:Charlie: Are you inside my head, Vive?
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:Are you in my head?
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:I bet you are.
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:You're inside.
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:Hazel: And when you were talking
about that childhood thing as well,
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:Charlie, it was all like, I remembered
the first time I wanted to fit in was
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:in one of those exact scenarios, I
might have been eight or nine and I
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:went to Steiner School and at Steiner
School you have to say your birthday
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:verse on a certain day of the week.
384
:And so if you dress the same as your
bestie on the day that you were doing
385
:your birthday verse, which is, this
probably makes no sense to anyone
386
:who didn't go to Steiner School,
but you've got to say your birthday
387
:verse in front of the class together.
388
:And so it was like this feeling of
fitting in, this feeling of if I
389
:fit in and I am dressed the same in
like twinning clothes as my bestie,
390
:I don't have to do this alone.
391
:And it's like that feeling that I think
we're pushed into by the fashion industry
392
:is like, Hey, you're not going to fit in.
393
:Like, don't, but like the point is now
I don't want to, like, I don't care.
394
:What I'm looking for, to go back to your
point, Vive, is not necessarily not to fit
395
:in, but that's no longer on the checklist.
396
:And I think for such a
long time, it really was.
397
:Vive: But it's how you belong.
398
:So it's different.
399
:How you belong is different now.
400
:Whereas we've got to remember that
the, I think Charlie was talking
401
:about it, that kind of like, the
molding or the influence begins at
402
:such an early age about how we belong.
403
:And what we wear is
such a big part of that.
404
:How do you make it safe for a kid?
405
:When the rest of the outside world says,
for you to be safe you need to wear this.
406
:So how do we make it safe for kids
when they're already going through
407
:this really big kind of process
of who am I and how do I belong?
408
:And what do I love and
what do others love?
409
:And if I love what others love, then
that's how I'm safe and I belong.
410
:And also being quite intuitive and having
a really strong sense of what they feel.
411
:like and want to wear and desire
to wear, but remembering, Oh my
412
:goodness, they're also walking the
line of wanting to be really safe
413
:because childhood kind of scary.
414
:Charlie: And do you want to hear the
punchline of it all about the top story?
415
:I didn't actually like the tops.
416
:Like I didn't even like them.
417
:I did like, I actually didn't like them.
418
:I don't even think I liked the fabric.
419
:You would know what
fabric I'm talking about.
420
:I didn't like it.
421
:I didn't even like the colour.
422
:I actually didn't like it at all.
423
:What I liked is that I fit in with
my friends and I really, and gosh,
424
:probably still do craved that
connection with other people, and
425
:specifically women, really craved that.
426
:And it was at the expense
of my own desires.
427
:And this crazy big shift, not even too
big, but it happens over and over again.
428
:And I'm in my early twenties,
coming up to mid twenties now.
429
:And I would only say that in the last
six to twelve months, I've actually
430
:really started dressing for me.
431
:And dressing for what I like and
who I am and not going, Oh I don't
432
:want to be overdressed and I don't
want to be underdressed, but, you
433
:know, and just feeling uncomfortable.
434
:And I don't even think I can
really pinpoint the moment was.
435
:It definitely, I think my work assisted
with that, working with children.
436
:And having that contact with
children changed it a bit for me,
437
:but actually going what do I want?
438
:Like, what do I really want?
439
:And that shift, I think once I started,
it was like, there was no going back.
440
:Vive: Yeah.
441
:That's that beautiful piece about women.
442
:You know, the big picture is in, say,
let's talk in our Western culture
443
:and probably the cultures that we've
been raised when I can't speak for
444
:everyone, obviously, but you know,
women's ability to ask that question,
445
:that beautiful question that you
just said, you know, what do I want?
446
:It is been so shut down over like
hundreds and hundreds of years,
447
:because if you had needs as a woman
300 years ago, 200 years ago, a hundred
448
:years ago you know, it wasn't safe.
449
:It wasn't safe to have needs.
450
:And so just, I mean, hooray that
you're in your mid twenties and
451
:you're connecting to this sense
of hang on a sec, what do I want?
452
:And you can tap into that because a
lot of people, when I speak to them,
453
:when we're coaching and that's the
question you tend to ask is like, I
454
:don't know, I don't know what I want.
455
:They know what they don't want, but they
don't know what they want because it's
456
:a really tricky thing when you haven't
grown up connected to your own needs.
457
:Hazel: And I think that comes
back to the consumption.
458
:It's like, Oh, if I'm not safe and I
don't know how to ask for what I want
459
:and I, you know, I don't know how to do
this and that, what can I do instead?
460
:I can buy shit and I can
feel good about that.
461
:Charlie: Oh, that's a good one.
462
:That's a good one.
463
:I, my favourite, one of my
favourite things to say.
464
:is when someone makes a comment
about their clothing or about
465
:themselves or anything and
they're diminishing themselves.
466
:I always love to say, why are you making
yourself small for the comfort of others?
467
:Like your comfort and your
safety is so much more important.
468
:SO much more important.
469
:And I've got to remind myself of this
because big hypocrite and saying, no,
470
:why you make, I still do it to this day.
471
:Vive: As a kindy teacher, Charlie,
I've got a just out of kindy child who
472
:likes to wear a lot of rainbow clothes,
like a lot, pretty much everything
473
:rainbow, every drawing is rainbow.
474
:You would have had that beautiful
experience of seeing, at that
475
:age, you would hope at that
kind of four year old mark.
476
:They're so, authentically self expressed
most kids, at that age, that it's hard
477
:not to mirror that back to them, like
you said, wearing your rainbow skirt.
478
:It's just, it's such a delight
to be around that age of a child
479
:in how they express themselves.
480
:Charlie: was probably the most
healing thing for me was actually
481
:being around them and seeing that.
482
:I mean, I've had a student wear her
rainbow wellies, a pair of rainbow
483
:leggings, rainbow jumper, and underneath
that rainbow jumper was a rainbow t
484
:shirt and on their head was a big bow.
485
:Like I'm talking not normal size, extra
large bow with a big dial of Elsa on it.
486
:And this child walked in and
came up and posed in front of
487
:me and said, do you like this?
488
:And I said, this is the
best thing I've ever seen.
489
:And it wasn't about the clothes.
490
:It was about that.
491
:The fact that child strutted up to me
and went, here I am, see me as I am.
492
:And I thought that is the
best thing in the world.
493
:And , I don't know what happens because
it's obviously not my area of expertise,
494
:the transition, you know, into adulthood.
495
:I'm more in the younger side
of children based, but something
496
:happens, we stop doing that.
497
:And I even look back at pictures of
me as a child and things, and I always
498
:get told I'm very hyper feminine.
499
:And trust me that every photo of me
as a child, I'm in a fairy dress.
500
:I'm in a, like a different colour.
501
:And I didn't just have like one, I
had every colour of the rainbow and
502
:I would match it with the same colour
pair of shoes there would probably
503
:be a fairy wand that also matched,
big pair of wings and that was how
504
:I wanted to present to the world.
505
:Love it.
506
:Absolutely love it.
507
:I, and I don't know what shifted.
508
:That's probably for a therapist
to to go through, but that's
509
:not what this session is about.
510
:You know, that's probably for a bit
more of a clinical side of something
511
:or what am I, one of my healers that's
not for this call, but something shifts
512
:in us from the age of four and five.
513
:And we put down the rainbow skirt and we
put down the fairy wings and we put on
514
:this dulled version of ourselves and it
just, we spend so much longer finding our
515
:way back to that and my biggest hope is
that through fashion, through this change
516
:in fashion and creative climate is that
people find their way back to themselves.
517
:And if that way back to themselves
is a black top and a black skirt
518
:and everything that isn't my
style, do it and do it shamelessly.
519
:Do it with love, do it all the time.
520
:Be happy and just do that for yourself.
521
:Vive: You nailed it when you identified
the lack of role models for that
522
:re-wearing or the kind of creativeness
with limitation aspects like there was
523
:a lack of role models, but I think with
people like everyone on this call there's
524
:obviously an urge and a sense in their
mothers and parents and you know, people
525
:in fact, working in fashion who are saying
hey, hang on a sec, like, look what you
526
:can do when you work with limitation and
look at the creative, the creativity that
527
:comes when you do work within limits.
528
:Hazel: Absolutely.
529
:I mean, without limits,
it's very overwhelming.
530
:And the thing that I think also keeps us
buying and keeps us, you know, looking
531
:out for that new is the overwhelm.
532
:It's like, it's overwhelming
to look at our own wardrobes.
533
:It's overwhelming to look at how many
clothes and garments we actually own.
534
:So what do I do instead?
535
:I'll just go out and buy that
one top or that one thing.
536
:And that's going to be the
thing I'm going to wear.
537
:That's going to be it.
538
:Like that's the thing, but it's
like actually, with limitations
539
:we can breed our creativity and
we can coax it out of its hiding.
540
:We can coax those rainbow leggings
with the rainbow dress and the
541
:rainbow skirt and everything.
542
:We can find what it means to dress
authentically for ourselves, without
543
:the overwhelm by putting constraints
on it, like, and I know Vive,
544
:you were doing what's it called?
545
:The PPP?
546
:Vive: "Project 333".
547
:And it's really bad, I should have
pulled the book out, found the author.
548
:Oh, I here, I've got it.
549
:Courtney Carver wrote a book
called "Project I think.
550
:And she also wrote another one
called "Soulful Simplicity".
551
:And it was about cutting your
wardrobe down to 33 items.
552
:Hazel: Mmm, I'm about that.
553
:Next year, that's my new challenge, baby.
554
:Charlie: Oh my gosh.
555
:Vive: It's amazing.
556
:I'm not kidding.
557
:I said to Hazel, when we were working
together, I was like, I feel so good.
558
:Like relaxed because decision making
is a thing like I have to reduce
559
:the barriers of decision making.
560
:So having just this limited, it
just felt every day felt really easy
561
:Charlie: love that.
562
:Vive: and that?
563
:Yeah, it was, it's really amazing.
564
:Hazel: So, I have been doing my wardrobe
freeze right for 250 days or almost.
565
:And I need to say that in that
time I've had zero body issues.
566
:Like I've been so happy with my body
and my body has fluctuated, like
567
:I've lost weight, I've put on weight,
but I haven't noticed because I'm so
568
:content with the clothing that I have.
569
:And then...
570
:on Friday.
571
:So I've been working
with this amazing woman.
572
:She was actually interviewed by Chrissy.
573
:I think she was like the second episode
of Reloved Radio, Bethany Alice.
574
:And she does this she does like
creations, not alterations.
575
:And so I sent her five of my
pieces to be altered in and
576
:like made into these new things.
577
:And they came back and I was so excited.
578
:And honestly, the work is incredible.
579
:Like the stuff she's made is awesome.
580
:But two of the things didn't fit.
581
:And I was like, Like what, excuse me.
582
:And like, it was the first time I've had
that feeling of like body unworthiness
583
:in 250 days, because, you know, normally
you're going to the op shop, you're
584
:going to the vintage, you're going to
consignment, you're going to the retail
585
:shops, you're trying stuff on you know,
every other weekend, however often it is.
586
:And without doing that I've just
been wearing clothes that fit for
587
:almost a year and it's been such an
incredible experience and because this
588
:beautiful denim skirt just needs a
little bit more alteration, a little
589
:bit like more give in the waist, I
was put in a tailspin and I was like,
590
:"Oh my God, like I hate my body".
591
:You know, all of those old stories that
we tell ourselves about our body came back
592
:to me and I was like, this is the power of
not buying stuff, like just having a bit
593
:of a wardrobe freeze, wherever that is.
594
:If it's like seven days, if it's two
months, however long is that just wearing
595
:clothes that fit you, make you forget that
there's all of that stuff from the fashion
596
:industry be like, "You got to wear this."
597
:Like, no, it doesn't look good on my body.
598
:"You got to wear that",
doesn't actually fit me.
599
:And it was just, yeah, really
interesting to see where my mind went
600
:as soon as something didn't fit me.
601
:Charlie: That is so powerful.
602
:So, so powerful.
603
:Vive: Yeah, choosing the clothes,
choosing the clothes that
604
:make you feel like sensorily.
605
:That's what I've noticed is
a really big thing for me.
606
:And I noticed it also because it's been
reflected to me with my kids, there
607
:are stuff that they just materials
that they're like that they could love.
608
:Chryssius: My kids wouldn't wear
jeans for so long just because
609
:denim did not feel nice for them.
610
:Hazel: Yes,
611
:Charlie: like the feeling
of my toes being spread.
612
:Oh my gosh, I'm talking about my toes.
613
:Oh my god.
614
:Okay, I need to stop.
615
:Put me in the bin.
616
:I will escort myself
out, it's a safe place.
617
:I never wore thongs as a child
because I didn't like the feeling of
618
:the bit that goes between your toes.
619
:I was like, ugh...
620
:and it's funny now, I
actually don't own any thongs.
621
:And even my heels that are like
strappy, nup, there's nothing there.
622
:And I it's so interesting.
623
:You said the sensory part because that
sensory feeling, no, I can't do it.
624
:I don't think I'll.
625
:Yep it's a sensory no to me.
626
:If it's a sensory no, it's a no go.
627
:Vive: And so there's a big
thing in um, in a particular
628
:philosophy called aware parenting.
629
:And it's a woman who she also has her
own kind of thing, the Marion Method,
630
:but she talks a lot about willingness.
631
:And when kids are forced to do things
against their will, where there's this
632
:sense of coercion, which let's face
it, like we live systemically in a
633
:culture that is a lot about coercion,
a lot about pushing and striving.
634
:And when kids and people are forced to
do things where they're not willing,
635
:then suddenly and slowly the will
gets pushed down and pushed down.
636
:So we're more likely to do things that
we're not willing to do because we're
637
:not connected to that innate body wisdom.
638
:And so then it's no wonder
we start kind of like...
639
:we reach midlife.
640
:I'm 43.
641
:We, we reach midlife and we're like,
I'm only going to wear tracksuit pants
642
:because, you know, it's this sort of
sense of suddenly I'm just like, I am
643
:only wearing shit that feels really good.
644
:And like you said, Hazel, when I'm
wearing stuff that feels really good, it.
645
:It has like a, it has something
and an impact on the life force and
646
:the energy of how I am in the world
and how I relate with the world.
647
:Charlie: Absolutely, I was just, a
week and a bit ago, I was just on a
648
:retreat with eight women and we were
doing some energy work and things, and
649
:we were doing shadow workshops, which
if you have any background in like
650
:energy work and things is the really
gritty, not like dark stuff, pretty
651
:much in the short form, the dark stuff.
652
:And when you go to that place.
653
:And every day, everyone
would just dress themselves.
654
:And it was so interesting to see the
difference between the clothes that
655
:people wore to arrive, what they
wore during the shadow workshops.
656
:What they wore when we just had dinner and
after we did all that and the difference
657
:in the fabrics, the difference in the
colours, the difference in what was
658
:important and there were certain days
I remember where one day I woke up and
659
:I went, I just need to wear trackies...
660
:and a long sleeved shirt, and I think I'm
actually wearing the same top right now.
661
:And it's like so comfortable, and that
sensory experience of just being really
662
:comfortable with myself to then be able
to be vulnerable and show up as myself
663
:was so ultimately important in that moment
664
:Vive: And imagine if everyone had this
sense of awareness, and I think someone
665
:said the ritual or the, there was another
word that came up, but ceremony, if there
666
:was a, and it didn't have to be a big ding
dang dong of a thing, but if there was a
667
:sense of awareness and ceremony, when we
were getting dressed for the day around
668
:how we were feeling kind of a check in.
669
:What am I needing?
670
:Am I needing to feel kind of gentle?
671
:Am I needing to feel really
bold and express today?
672
:And there was that level of awareness
and intention that went into how
673
:we were addressing ourselves, how
we might feel as we moved around
674
:that day as a consequence of that
675
:Charlie: I always, I can't meditate.
676
:I have a very rough time
sitting and meditating.
677
:I don't know about you guys.
678
:If you have the same, or you have the
capability with children, maybe to be
679
:able to do that saying someone with no
680
:Hazel: that's the Ignore the children
681
:Charlie: my.
682
:Hazel: go inside.
683
:Charlie: I'm on my soapbox
of not having children or not
684
:having that responsibility yet.
685
:And I, yeah I used to joke that my
ceremony of the day was, or my ritual was
686
:sitting down and having a cup of coffee.
687
:And for that time, my phone's
not involved or something.
688
:I'm just really enjoying
this cup of coffee.
689
:And now what I do is when I get dressed
in the morning, I pick out like two
690
:options, maybe three, if I'm feeling.
691
:A little bit more adventurous.
692
:And I pick out the earrings that I'm
going to put with it and the shoes.
693
:And I don't leave that space of
my wardrobe or the house until
694
:I'm content with how I am.
695
:And my biggest belief is that
the way that we dress ourselves is
696
:actually a big form of self care and
that way that we treat ourselves and
697
:giving, I know it's not as accessible
to everyone to have that space.
698
:I'm saying this as someone who can
walk into my wardrobe half an hour if
699
:I do choose without having to worry
about other humans or any, you know,
700
:crazy, huge responsibilities like that.
701
:But having that time that I set
aside every single day, just for me.
702
:No one else, like it's purely for me
with the intention and the motivation
703
:that I just need this for me that
is my form of meditation or yoga.
704
:That's what that is for me.
705
:And I feel like when people can pull that
for themselves, even if it's five minutes.
706
:Hazel: Yeah.
707
:The
708
:Charlie: it's something
that you're it's purposeful.
709
:It's you enjoy it.
710
:You get, you look forward to it.
711
:I sometimes go to bed and I've
already got the clothes I'm going
712
:to wear the next day hung up.
713
:And I'm excited, after I've had a
shower and going, Oh, what earrings
714
:am I going to put on with this?
715
:Or am I going to do my head up or down?
716
:Yeah.
717
:Am I feeling more bold today?
718
:Or do I just want to be comfortable?
719
:What is, where does that come from?
720
:And where am I going to get it from?
721
:Like, how am I giving that to myself?
722
:And I try to be uninterrupted during that
time, but yeah, the intentionality of it,
723
:you just, when you give that to yourself.
724
:You even then if I find when I'm
doing that, I either find more things
725
:in my wardrobe, or as I'm putting on
a top, I'll go, Oh, the next time I
726
:wear this, I'm going to wear it with
this skirt because I like this for
727
:the purpose of today because I need
pants on, I need pants to do my things.
728
:But next time when I don't need to do
the things, I'm going to wear a really
729
:big flowy skirt that I've got hanging up
because as I'm holding this top to it, I'm
730
:seeing how the colour theory matching it.
731
:I'm going, yes!
732
:And I'm excited.
733
:Going, "Oh my gosh, I can't
wait to wear this again!"
734
:Like how much fun is that going?
735
:Like, Oh, the next time I wear it, or I
don't know if any of you have that, but
736
:when you wear something in summer and then
you realise, Oh, if I put a long sleeve
737
:under it, it's winter now, I can "winter"
this, I can winter the summer dress.
738
:I can winter this like it's and
I get so excited when I can start
739
:wintering summer dresses because I'm
a dress girl through and through.
740
:And I love when I can put my long
sleeve top on underneath my like
741
:bright green little summer dress.
742
:I go, yes, this is wicked.
743
:I have the summer energy
in winter and it's great.
744
:And I find that when I'm doing that
ceremonial practice getting dressed.
745
:Vive: Yeah.
746
:And I think that, what I hear from
both you and Hazel is, you know,
747
:there's this, and I discovered it kind
of actually through art and through
748
:drawing, but whenever anyone is
being creative, it's understanding
749
:that creative energy is regenerative.
750
:It's sort of like it's a way
that you can shift your own
751
:energy through the creativity
and through the creative process.
752
:So there's such empowerment
and I don't tend to use that
753
:word because it, you know...
754
:Charlie: Feels like a dirty word.
755
:Vive: ...thing, but there's a lot of
power and life force and energy that
756
:is created through creating and through
being creative that we outsource kind
757
:of getting energy from other places, but
actually that is how you are generating
758
:Hazel: Yeah, absolutely.
759
:And it's like, you can do that, Charlie,
because you know, you can do that.
760
:I can do that.
761
:Veev can do that.
762
:I'm sure Jacinta can do that too.
763
:It's like, we can do that because we've
spent the time finding the pieces and
764
:the things that we love and we have
a relationship with those clothes.
765
:Cause I feel exactly the same as you.
766
:I get so excited about wearing things,
but it's because I have an ongoing
767
:relationship that gets deeper and
deeper with the items in my wardrobe.
768
:Every time I wear them, it's like
they hold the memories of the
769
:things that we've done in them.
770
:Like I've got this skirt that I wore
during both my pregnancies with both
771
:kids, like, you know, things that you
imbue these individual and kind of
772
:like, meaning into the items in your
wardrobe and then you can love them more.
773
:You can wear them more.
774
:You can keep them for longer and
they really mean something to you.
775
:They have an imbued meaning, which I
think is like the number one thing that
776
:we need to think about when we're trying
to potentially curb our consumerism
777
:is like having ownership, having
love for the things in our wardrobe.
778
:Charlie: So, Vive and Hazel, other
than my little saying I've just
779
:come up with the last 10 seconds, we
need to start dating our wardrobe.
780
:How we like, honestly, I think we
need to treat our wardrobe like
781
:we're going on a date with it.
782
:Like, yeah that's in my opinion.
783
:Start like, like date it.
784
:Vive: I don't know if you guys, anyone
has read "Big Magic", but Elizabeth
785
:Gilbert in that book, which is all about
creativity and a creative practice.
786
:And she's a writer.
787
:She talks about dressing up to write like
she's going on a date or having a date.
788
:A wild love affair with
789
:Charlie: Oh,
790
:Vive: that she's writing and it, yeah, the
image of it it just, it really obviously
791
:stuck in my brain, but I love that.
792
:I love the playfulness that comes in
and I think that's another important
793
:aspect of this whole picture, which is
we forget to play as we become adults.
794
:Hazel: And we don't give ourself the
time to, because in case we get it
795
:wrong, it's like time is so important.
796
:If we get it wrong, then we've wasted
the time, but it's never a waste.
797
:It's always gonna be important.
798
:And, you know, energising, like you
said, it's such a huge e energetic piece
799
:for me, and I'm sure everyone else.
800
:Vive: And making it safe to experiment,
because I think what can happen is, and
801
:particularly when you become a mum, a
bit like you were saying, Hazel is, you
802
:feel that you fall into this new persona
in any stage of life, you might decide,
803
:oh, this is my new persona, but, and
that kind of closes the, it puts the
804
:blinkers on to what's possible as soon
as you are one, or a particular type of
805
:person, and you really need to, it's about
kind of making it safe to experiment,
806
:giving yourself permission to experiment.
807
:Charlie: Oh, that one's good.
808
:Chryssius: So Jacinta, from a
financial perspective how do you think
809
:that the prevalence of fast fashion
is contributing to, first of all,
810
:financial strain, but second of all debt
amongst consumers, particularly women.
811
:Jacinta: So it's quite layered and
I don't want to shame anyone because
812
:obviously fast fashion for some
is an accessibility you know, for
813
:providing for yourself or your family.
814
:So I think I like to go to the
structures that we all have to exist
815
:under, which is all relevant to what
we've all been talking about, but we
816
:live under like a patriarchal society
and capitalism is fueled by that.
817
:So the reason women or a
large part of how women are
818
:conditioned is to hate ourselves.
819
:And if you buy things, you'll feel better.
820
:And that the whole, the system is
designed that you use your disposable
821
:income to like burn through.
822
:And I have a theory.
823
:I just call it the princess theory.
824
:Like I think we're conditioned
from very young, obviously it's a
825
:heteronormative thing, but but we'll
meet someone and he'll look after
826
:us and he'll have the money and
like our money's designed for fun.
827
:Like, there was obviously a point
when our rights were fought for, to be
828
:able to have like our name on credit
cards and on houses, but I don't
829
:think it was finished in terms of the
mentality of like, how are you gonna
830
:look after yourself as an individual?
831
:It was always tethered to your
relationship with a man, and I think
832
:that's just a huge part to, to think
about, so in terms of fast fashion.
833
:I think it just feeds the beast
and it's multiplied because
834
:it's a way to make money.
835
:That's the system we live under and
the easiest way is, like, I know we're
836
:women talking about this, but yeah,
no one's talking about men shopping.
837
:Like, there's a reason it was designed
for us to spend and just constantly
838
:seek feeling better because that's
the conditioning of capitalism.
839
:Like "if you buy this,
you're going to feel better".
840
:Like everything you've spoken about.
841
:I know that KOOKAÏ top you're
talking about, there were different
842
:group of girls that wore it, but
I know it like we've all had like
843
:this similar experience coming up.
844
:I think about the times when there
were like knockoff brands and it was
845
:like a lot more embarrassing to have
those like adidas was what three
846
:stripes and then like a knockoff brand
was two stripes, maybe you'd get at a
847
:big W or something and you were like
mortified as a kid, wearing that.
848
:And I'm one of four.
849
:So like my parents went out buying
like brand name clothing for us.
850
:But like I knew when my friends had
a Billabong skirt or a Rusty skirt,
851
:like you're sort of divided in status
of like how much money you have.
852
:And like, I've worked from a very, yeah.
853
:And I've worked from a very young age.
854
:Like I was 13 and nine months.
855
:And my dad's like, "Get a job.
856
:You still have to do your chores,
but you're not getting pocket money."
857
:So I've paid for my own stuff.
858
:I pay for my own phone since I was
14, like I've been provided like
859
:food, shelter and stuff, but I've been
very self sufficient for a long time.
860
:So I just look around and see, yeah, the
conditioning and yeah, it's to seek, like
861
:what you're going to get from it, like
the dopamine and things that are like
862
:really terrifying now is like "buy now
pay later" and like reverse credit card.
863
:Yeah.
864
:And that's like a, that's a very
high that's like one of the, I
865
:think that's one of the largest
debts we have in Australia now.
866
:And it's because we're not taught, all
of us, regardless of gender, we're not
867
:taught like about money and like how
to use it and like passing down that
868
:information is wealth in itself, like if
you've come up in a family that talks to
869
:you about investing and what your super
does and how to have an emergency fund
870
:and splitting up your paycheck, like that
is valuable information and like, we're
871
:not taught that, and then you just sink
further into um, It's always like how
872
:other people think, like, who is it for?
873
:Like, I found myself doing this yesterday.
874
:I was going to a first birthday
and I have nothing to wear.
875
:And so I was like looking
up stuff the night before.
876
:And I was like, just looking,
I knew it was going to happen.
877
:I'll look.
878
:And then I.
879
:Like I was like, Oh, I could go get that.
880
:And then I was like,
Oh, go to your wardrobe.
881
:And my stress is like finding shoes.
882
:Cause I don't personally,
like, I'm not a big shopper.
883
:I don't really, clothes aren't my thing,
but I understand expressing yourself,
884
:but I found it more frustrating in
the past few years, like being 35.
885
:I just felt there's no clothes for
my age group from like 30 to 50.
886
:I just feel like we're
really sort of left out.
887
:And yeah, I just, I went and tried
to get my dopamine fix and then I was
888
:like, I'll just wear something I have.
889
:And I found something and I put it
with some shoes and I was like, Oh,
890
:it doesn't look as bad as I thought.
891
:But I really try like
a minimalist approach.
892
:Like I have one pair of
heels, one pair of sneakers.
893
:One pair of flats and then yeah,
I don't have a lot to play with
894
:because it's like not a priority, but
that's from a financial perspective.
895
:It's like, what are my values?
896
:My value is time.
897
:So I don't, that's not where I play.
898
:I go like for experiences and I actually
was thinking about this the other day,
899
:like in travel I gave a lot of my stuff
away because I took like one suitcase
900
:to the US when I moved there in 2018.
901
:I gave away everything I had.
902
:Cookbooks, clothes, my favourite cowboy
boots that I wore with everything,
903
:like I gave everything away because
it's like, Yeah I have nostalgia for
904
:stuff and they're like cool things I
owned, but I dunno, it's cyclical to me.
905
:I was like, it was for a time and
then like, that's my journey with
906
:it and it's over, but yeah, fast
fashion is a hard thing to navigate.
907
:Cause I think about people who need
the access to, and now it's like, not
908
:as embarrassing to buy stuff at Kmart.
909
:It's like where everyone goes, like it's
a total shift to when I was younger.
910
:But I think about people who need
access to things that are cheaper,
911
:but yeah, it's a vicious cycle.
912
:And I think people need to remember,
like, I don't want anyone to
913
:feel bad cause like you're, we're
under a system working perfectly.
914
:Like, we are We are the pawns.
915
:Yeah.
916
:So,
917
:Hazel: And sadly with a product now,
like we have become the product,
918
:they're mining, you know, everything
that we do online in order to
919
:advertise more effectively to us and
what sold is our data so that people
920
:can aim things specifically at us,
"Buy this now"., like, it's just...
921
:Jacinta: Yeah.
922
:I saw a post today.
923
:I didn't get to read the article, but
I went to read like the blurb and the
924
:comments, but a woman was pregnant and
she said, I was trying to have my pregnant
925
:silent, pregnancy silent so that she
wanted to see if the algorithm, like if
926
:you didn't talk about being pregnant, or
having a baby, like, could the algorithm
927
:pick up, you were gonna be a new parent?
928
:Because, that in itself is, you lay
out a lot of money for all the supplies
929
:that you need to have your first kid.
930
:Hazel: you never then use
931
:Jacinta: And, and I
thought that was haunting.
932
:It's like, I was like,
yeah, it's haunting.
933
:Like, they're not even here
yet, and you've got the
934
:markers on them of that baby.
935
:Like, they could follow that kid
forever, like they know that you're
936
:the parent, they have your data, like
if we all knew how much, the tabs that
937
:they kept on us, it would be haunting.
938
:I remember someone telling
me that seven years ago.
939
:Vive: And Jacinta, such a good point
that you make about just, I was thinking
940
:back to when I had my first baby and
the amount of stuff that we bought and
941
:the amount of stuff that we didn't use.
942
:But how the thing behind all of
that, especially as a new parent,
943
:and I know it's not fashion, but
just generally consuming and buying
944
:stuff in general, it's this fear of
like not knowing what you're doing.
945
:With the parenting thing where you
feel like you have it all to support
946
:you So there's it like you said like
going way back I think you said it's
947
:something about the fairytale...
948
:Jacinta: Yeah, yeah,
yeah, princess theory.
949
:Vive: the Disney Princess the Disney
princess theme, of like you're the
950
:prize to be won at the end of it
not actually It's the story is not
951
:about you, it's about the hero.
952
:And you're just the prize that they
win at the end and the happily ever
953
:after, like whether we like it or
not, and hopefully less so with the
954
:Disney movies that are being produced
nowadays, but certainly for my era.
955
:It was all about being saved by the
man and the man providing even though
956
:feminism was around, it's like how
ingrained that gets in the mind of
957
:a four or five year old about, you
know, your financial sovereignty or
958
:agency, it takes a long time to come
back around to being like, Oh no, I
959
:actually can figure this out and be the
heRoine of my own story in a financial
960
:Charlie: Isn't it marketing 101 to
sell people that they have a problem
961
:and that you have the solution?
962
:Jacinta: Yeah, like, like
"this will make you feel..."
963
:Hazel: It's the "worth" piece.
964
:Jacinta: It's selling you an idea.
965
:Charlie: You need this rocker for
your baby because it will do this
966
:because otherwise this will happen.
967
:And it's like, wait what?
968
:Vive: It's trading in people's
fear and that's the kind of
969
:Hazel: But that's exactly what
the fashion industry does as well.
970
:It trades in people's fear.
971
:"You are not worthy.
972
:You are not good enough.
973
:How can you be good enough?
974
:Buy this."
975
:Like that's, you know, that
is Fashion Marketing 101.
976
:Charlie: Oh yeah.
977
:Even, gosh, the amount of times I
see things that are like, "this top
978
:will make your boobs look bigger."
979
:It's like what's wrong with my boobs?
980
:Like it, you know does it with
our body especially or this will
981
:snatch your waist and it's like
why do I need to be snatched?
982
:Why do I need to be uncomfortable?
983
:Vive: The ultimate onee
is, "you're worth it!"
984
:I feel like that catchphrase in marketing,
I'm like, wow, do I need someone
985
:outside me to tell me that I'm worth it?
986
:Jacinta: Yeah.
987
:Like "treat yourself".
988
:Vive: Yeah.
989
:That's the ultimate one financially
of like, you're worth it.
990
:You deserve this.
991
:Charlie: Deserve what?
992
:Another thing?
993
:Jacinta: It's a reward.
994
:It's all reward system.
995
:Yeah.
996
:Chryssius: So just on that topic,
I wanted to ask what some of the
997
:practical steps might be that we
can take if we wanted to pause and
998
:reflect on our consumption habits?
999
:Especially around fast fashion.
:
00:57:56,328 --> 00:58:00,238
Charlie: So the one that I
do, so I don't online shop.
:
00:58:00,482 --> 00:58:02,978
So I have an issue with online shopping.
:
00:58:02,988 --> 00:58:03,328
Just.
:
00:58:03,573 --> 00:58:07,413
I prefer to go and get something
and feel it in my hand.
:
00:58:07,443 --> 00:58:09,023
Maybe it's just the sensory experience.
:
00:58:09,023 --> 00:58:12,953
I'm sure Vive or Jacinta, you could
probably put that something else,
:
00:58:12,953 --> 00:58:14,373
but that's not for this podcast.
:
00:58:14,897 --> 00:58:16,007
That's not for this podcast.
:
00:58:16,077 --> 00:58:20,907
That's for a clinical room,
but one thing that I do is I.
:
00:58:21,302 --> 00:58:22,222
I love Pinterest.
:
00:58:22,752 --> 00:58:25,442
I really do love social media.
:
00:58:25,442 --> 00:58:27,672
I know there's dark sides to it,
but I do think there's some really
:
00:58:27,672 --> 00:58:29,202
great creative aspects of it.
:
00:58:29,582 --> 00:58:34,429
And I actually have a Pinterest page I
make a new one every few months and I go
:
00:58:34,429 --> 00:58:37,969
through my wardrobe and I look at every,
I try and memorise as much as I can.
:
00:58:37,979 --> 00:58:43,749
And I make a Pinterest board of basically
like clothes that are already in my
:
00:58:43,749 --> 00:58:45,749
wardrobe, if that makes sense, or colours.
:
00:58:45,769 --> 00:58:46,639
or styles.
:
00:58:47,909 --> 00:58:52,059
I go to it like I, because sometimes
like, look, I'm very creative person,
:
00:58:52,069 --> 00:58:58,269
but sometimes like I will go to that
little Pinterest page and there's like
:
00:58:58,529 --> 00:59:04,629
a dress with big puffy shoulders and I
might have seven different looks saved
:
00:59:04,669 --> 00:59:06,249
of dresses with big puffy shoulders.
:
00:59:06,289 --> 00:59:08,509
And I'd look, okay what
kind of scene is that in?
:
00:59:08,519 --> 00:59:12,199
It almost gives you like, it's like a
guideline that I've made for myself.
:
00:59:12,409 --> 00:59:16,359
Of my own wardrobe, just
redone in creative ways.
:
00:59:16,389 --> 00:59:19,109
And because there's an algorithm on
Pinterest, we search one thing, you
:
00:59:19,109 --> 00:59:20,399
know, more things like that come up.
:
00:59:21,179 --> 00:59:24,919
If I give myself maybe a little bit of
time, maybe each few months to really
:
00:59:24,919 --> 00:59:30,149
look at that, I get all these ideas that
aren't of things that I want to get.
:
00:59:30,179 --> 00:59:31,649
It's things I already have.
:
00:59:32,169 --> 00:59:38,629
I do have a little small pinterest board
of the dream the dream items I'd love to
:
00:59:38,629 --> 00:59:42,779
find in an op shop that I love the way
that they're made or the things on them
:
00:59:42,779 --> 00:59:44,319
that I'm like, yes, this is so cool.
:
00:59:44,359 --> 00:59:44,979
I'm obsessed.
:
00:59:44,999 --> 00:59:46,259
This is creatively amazing.
:
00:59:47,429 --> 00:59:52,534
Having that little page of
already curated outfits.
:
00:59:52,534 --> 00:59:54,944
I mean, basically like a look book,
but it's just not me in the photos.
:
00:59:55,644 --> 00:59:59,744
I can already really like when
I, you know, think I've got an
:
00:59:59,744 --> 01:00:01,254
event, I want to change up a look.
:
01:00:01,284 --> 01:00:06,054
I've already got that as a guideline
for myself and it's already made of
:
01:00:06,054 --> 01:00:07,444
things that are already in my wardrobe.
:
01:00:07,844 --> 01:00:11,334
So the creative aspect, that
burden is taken off my shoulders.
:
01:00:11,394 --> 01:00:12,594
I'm not bothered by it.
:
01:00:12,674 --> 01:00:17,579
And then like it's really one step
into the space of trying and being
:
01:00:17,579 --> 01:00:19,759
creative and having a bit of fun.
:
01:00:19,769 --> 01:00:23,129
It's really one step in that direction
because nine out of ten times I
:
01:00:23,129 --> 01:00:26,569
don't end up going with the same
look that I found on Pinterest.
:
01:00:27,029 --> 01:00:30,239
I end up with a mismatch of
something else because it was one,
:
01:00:30,269 --> 01:00:34,519
it was that little push to go get
in there and try some stuff on.
:
01:00:34,769 --> 01:00:35,449
Just give it a go.
:
01:00:36,182 --> 01:00:37,402
Vive: It's like having a menu.
:
01:00:37,522 --> 01:00:40,892
It's like the body loves
some kind of a roadmap.
:
01:00:41,102 --> 01:00:43,622
It's something, there's something
really reassuring about it.
:
01:00:43,702 --> 01:00:49,862
So to have the a la carte menu there with
prompting already prompting the ideas,
:
01:00:50,737 --> 01:00:52,657
it's like, oh, that's, just way easier.
:
01:00:53,115 --> 01:00:55,735
Hazel: And it's such a good
way of shopping your wardrobe.
:
01:00:56,211 --> 01:00:57,081
Chryssius: It definitely is.
:
01:00:57,544 --> 01:01:02,024
Hazel: Like, cause people, people don't
know how necessarily to go about that
:
01:01:02,024 --> 01:01:05,597
from a practical standpoint, but like
you said, just having that inspiration.
:
01:01:05,807 --> 01:01:11,427
And even if it's just a point to jump
off of, it's still an ability to visually
:
01:01:11,427 --> 01:01:16,727
see how you can use what you already have
in a new way, in a way that you've not
:
01:01:16,737 --> 01:01:22,997
done before, which kind of like feeds
into to, um, to feed that like pursuit
:
01:01:22,997 --> 01:01:24,934
for the new that we're constantly having.
:
01:01:24,944 --> 01:01:28,034
That is kind of like, you know, that's
why we go to buy, is because we're
:
01:01:28,034 --> 01:01:32,234
looking for new, new, new, but those
new outfit combinations through the
:
01:01:32,254 --> 01:01:35,794
inspiration that you've gathered
is such a great way of doing it.
:
01:01:36,108 --> 01:01:39,378
Chryssius: It's like having a fashion
magazine where you're looking at all
:
01:01:39,378 --> 01:01:43,278
these different options and you're getting
really inspired, but the catch is it's
:
01:01:43,308 --> 01:01:47,458
not inspiring you to then go out and
buy something new, it's inspiring you
:
01:01:47,458 --> 01:01:52,138
to go to your wardrobe and pick out that
thing that you already have and wear it
:
01:01:52,518 --> 01:01:54,168
either a different way or wear it again.
:
01:01:54,469 --> 01:01:57,939
Charlie: That's my practical tip
of if you want to start somewhere
:
01:01:58,359 --> 01:02:01,249
where it feels like it's really
done a little bit for you.
:
01:02:01,249 --> 01:02:03,729
Just start there.
:
01:02:04,176 --> 01:02:08,863
Vive: Mine's super, super simple and it's
based on a practice and you could use
:
01:02:08,913 --> 01:02:12,043
this for anything really, but I think
it's a great one to use whenever you
:
01:02:12,043 --> 01:02:16,583
have that kind of impulse to to, I think
Jacinta was talking about reaching for
:
01:02:16,583 --> 01:02:21,393
the dopamine hit which is, it's from the
Centre of Nonviolent Communication and
:
01:02:21,393 --> 01:02:27,753
it's about what's the feeling, what am I
needing, and what are the other strategies
:
01:02:27,903 --> 01:02:30,043
to get that feeling, get that need met.
:
01:02:30,863 --> 01:02:35,493
So often it's just identifying like, what
am I feeling around needing something new?
:
01:02:35,953 --> 01:02:40,243
So it's noticing and pausing,
asking yourself those questions.
:
01:02:40,403 --> 01:02:41,393
What are my feelings?
:
01:02:41,813 --> 01:02:42,933
What am I needing?
:
01:02:43,643 --> 01:02:47,333
And there's a beautiful worksheet
actually on their website where
:
01:02:47,333 --> 01:02:49,223
it lists like universal needs.
:
01:02:49,963 --> 01:02:53,063
And it gives a real nuanced
approach to starting to get in
:
01:02:53,063 --> 01:02:54,743
touch with what it is that you need.
:
01:02:55,273 --> 01:02:59,213
And then, you know, what are the other
strategies that I could get this this need
:
01:02:59,213 --> 01:03:05,603
met to feel excited, to feel beautiful
or sexy or whatever it is that we're
:
01:03:05,603 --> 01:03:11,043
longing, however we're longing to feel,
or we're needing to feel in our bodies.
:
01:03:11,173 --> 01:03:14,058
What are the other strategies
that I could do to feel that way?
:
01:03:14,873 --> 01:03:19,893
Hazel: And I think that kind of feeds
into, you know, the way consumerism
:
01:03:19,893 --> 01:03:23,833
has basically been sold to us, to fill
in the place of all of those things.
:
01:03:23,853 --> 01:03:27,023
And it's like, what are the
real things that we care about?
:
01:03:27,033 --> 01:03:29,093
Is it spending time with your friends?
:
01:03:29,113 --> 01:03:30,993
Is it spending time with your loved ones?
:
01:03:31,012 --> 01:03:32,692
For me, it's a, it's my business.
:
01:03:32,722 --> 01:03:37,532
Like the thing that's really allowed me
to not consume this year and to really,
:
01:03:37,602 --> 01:03:43,497
actually stick to my wardrobe freeze is,
because I love what I do in my business.
:
01:03:43,527 --> 01:03:47,197
And it's so important to me to get the
message out to women that you can wear
:
01:03:47,197 --> 01:03:51,357
what you love, wear what you already have,
and those two things are not different
:
01:03:51,377 --> 01:03:57,857
and they can, be synonymous and to start
to decouple our sense of personal style
:
01:03:57,857 --> 01:04:02,127
with consumerism is like, I've put all
of my energy that I would have probably
:
01:04:02,127 --> 01:04:07,438
put into op shopping, um, say a year
ago into, you know, really refining that
:
01:04:07,438 --> 01:04:10,202
message and helping people to do the same.
:
01:04:10,202 --> 01:04:13,892
It's, and it's like, for me, that
fills that part for me, it fills
:
01:04:13,912 --> 01:04:15,232
what op shopping was giving me.
:
01:04:15,232 --> 01:04:16,092
And for me...
:
01:04:16,622 --> 01:04:19,292
I guess it's really just leaning
into what I really want to wear.
:
01:04:19,352 --> 01:04:22,002
And I know that we've talked about
that before, but it's like you said
:
01:04:22,002 --> 01:04:25,732
Jacinta, what I really want to wear is
not what's in the shops necessarily.
:
01:04:25,732 --> 01:04:28,662
I want to wear something that
makes me feel authentic makes me
:
01:04:28,662 --> 01:04:32,017
feel , like I'm being presented in
the world in a way that, um, I feel
:
01:04:32,017 --> 01:04:36,767
inside and that comes from, you
know, maybe upcycling my clothes.
:
01:04:36,787 --> 01:04:40,437
Like I've done lots of dying
of them and I'm changing them.
:
01:04:40,437 --> 01:04:45,487
And that is another way like research
shows that in fashion psychology,
:
01:04:45,967 --> 01:04:50,217
if we have ownership of our clothes
in that way of upcycling or mending
:
01:04:50,217 --> 01:04:54,204
them, um, you know, that the visible
mending trend is huge at the moment.
:
01:04:54,594 --> 01:04:57,014
We actually engage with
them on a deeper level.
:
01:04:57,014 --> 01:05:01,200
We have more of a, long lasting
and loving relationship with
:
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:05,529
our clothes because we have that
small part of ownership over them.
:
01:05:07,387 --> 01:05:12,497
Vive: And once again, Hazel, like
emphasising the agency in creativity
:
01:05:12,637 --> 01:05:17,047
that generates for you, because what
we're taught is that we're disempowered
:
01:05:17,047 --> 01:05:21,614
and we can't fix things or change
things or create new things, because we
:
01:05:21,614 --> 01:05:23,354
need to go out and buy the new thing.
:
01:05:23,934 --> 01:05:27,944
As opposed to, we actually can grow
the skills to dye our clothes, to
:
01:05:27,944 --> 01:05:31,784
fix them, you know, like you did
with your Birkies to totally change
:
01:05:31,784 --> 01:05:33,674
the colour of your Birkenstocks.
:
01:05:34,426 --> 01:05:37,356
Jacinta: And I have a friend who
sows because I have not taken up that
:
01:05:37,386 --> 01:05:39,226
hobby, but I've had things fixed.
:
01:05:39,226 --> 01:05:41,629
But also I was going to say,
it's conditioned to think we
:
01:05:41,629 --> 01:05:44,859
can buy the feeling and like
you can't buy the feeling.
:
01:05:44,859 --> 01:05:50,429
A skill is to sit with what's missing,
what's the void I'm trying to fill, like
:
01:05:50,429 --> 01:05:54,969
sitting and observing yourself, which
I know Vive has spoken about, but yeah
:
01:05:55,019 --> 01:05:57,769
That's the skill rather than thinking
I can buy this and I'll ultimately
:
01:05:57,769 --> 01:06:01,119
feel happier, sexier, whatever.
:
01:06:01,259 --> 01:06:05,349
And then it's like, oh, sitting with
like, I'm buying, I just think I can buy
:
01:06:05,349 --> 01:06:06,999
the feeling, but that's not possible.
:
01:06:07,029 --> 01:06:07,299
So...
:
01:06:07,716 --> 01:06:08,756
Vive: It's temporary.
:
01:06:09,016 --> 01:06:09,406
Jacinta: Yes.
:
01:06:09,926 --> 01:06:10,536
Temporary high.
:
01:06:10,536 --> 01:06:10,816
Yep.
:
01:06:11,383 --> 01:06:15,793
Hazel: And just also that point of
like being really mindful about that,
:
01:06:15,803 --> 01:06:17,813
but I'm not feeling guilty about it.
:
01:06:17,813 --> 01:06:21,576
It's like, again, research will show
that if we feel guilty guilty about
:
01:06:21,576 --> 01:06:24,686
something like over consumption,
it's more likely to actually lead
:
01:06:24,686 --> 01:06:26,083
to doing those actions again.
:
01:06:26,363 --> 01:06:31,296
And we, you know, the guilt is kind
of what keeps us trapped or keeps
:
01:06:31,296 --> 01:06:33,750
us stagnant in our consumption.
:
01:06:34,412 --> 01:06:35,812
Vive: And you talked about this.
:
01:06:35,845 --> 01:06:39,782
Chrissy and Hazel were talking
about the overwhelm of saving
:
01:06:39,782 --> 01:06:41,392
the world from fast fashion.
:
01:06:41,892 --> 01:06:44,762
And it made me immediately think,
you know, when we're overwhelmed,
:
01:06:44,828 --> 01:06:46,638
we very quickly go to hopelessness.
:
01:06:47,038 --> 01:06:48,208
Like, well, what's the point?
:
01:06:48,248 --> 01:06:51,278
I might as well just buy because I'm
never going to fix the world's problems
:
01:06:51,278 --> 01:06:54,612
with fast fashion and the amount of
fabric that's getting thrown into
:
01:06:54,612 --> 01:06:56,652
the ocean or wherever it is going.
:
01:06:57,162 --> 01:07:01,125
But it's always bringing it back to,
and I know this in the, in more of
:
01:07:01,125 --> 01:07:03,708
a, um, tending my own garden, which
:
01:07:03,806 --> 01:07:04,136
Hazel: a euphemism.
:
01:07:04,868 --> 01:07:06,148
Vive: metaphor for many things,
:
01:07:06,458 --> 01:07:07,158
but you know, like,
:
01:07:07,529 --> 01:07:09,329
Charlie: We've had a lot
of those kind of moments
:
01:07:09,329 --> 01:07:11,249
where we've gone, is that for the
:
01:07:11,249 --> 01:07:11,939
podcast?
:
01:07:11,939 --> 01:07:13,189
Or is that for a therapist?
:
01:07:13,279 --> 01:07:13,949
Not sure.
:
01:07:14,055 --> 01:07:17,925
Vive: but you know, coming back to
tending just your small part of life
:
01:07:18,585 --> 01:07:23,765
and what's within your sphere of control,
like always being able to come back
:
01:07:23,975 --> 01:07:27,115
and being like, well, what's within my
sphere of control is I could think about
:
01:07:27,635 --> 01:07:32,438
what I'm trying to feel by purchasing
this thing as the absolute first piece
:
01:07:32,968 --> 01:07:37,408
and with absolute compassion, because
like you were saying, Hazel, if there's
:
01:07:37,408 --> 01:07:43,498
no compassion, if it's suppressing
the urge to purchase, that suppression
:
01:07:43,508 --> 01:07:45,118
is going to come back and bite you.
:
01:07:45,368 --> 01:07:51,058
Like suppression and pushing away,
inevitably the pressure is just there.
:
01:07:51,068 --> 01:07:53,528
It's just being held at bay for a time.
:
01:07:54,078 --> 01:07:57,808
And then when you say, Hazel,
that people tend to just purchase
:
01:07:58,448 --> 01:08:02,458
anyway, it's because whatever we
suppress kind of comes back up at us.
:
01:08:04,824 --> 01:08:07,924
Chryssius: Thank you so much,
Vive, Jacinta, Charlie and Hazel
:
01:08:07,934 --> 01:08:09,424
for sharing your expertise.
:
01:08:09,454 --> 01:08:12,774
I'm absolutely loving how you're
inspiring us all to rethink our
:
01:08:12,784 --> 01:08:17,064
habits and our choices, particularly
around fashion consumption.
:
01:08:17,644 --> 01:08:20,874
For our listeners, be sure to join
us for the next two episodes in
:
01:08:20,874 --> 01:08:24,756
this series, because we're going to
continue to explore mindful fashion
:
01:08:24,756 --> 01:08:30,807
consumption, ethical shopping practices
and the power of conscious consumerism.
:
01:08:31,386 --> 01:08:32,287
Thanks for listening.
:
01:08:32,346 --> 01:08:33,437
We'll see you then.