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Self-care Challenges...Together
Episode 3 • 18th December 2023 • Being the Work • Ben Wire and Blakely Adams
00:00:00 00:55:39

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With a mixture of humor and confrontation, we build on the last two episodes, getting down to the business of setting some self-care challenges for one another based on what we know about each other. Self-care is so much more than mere coping skills. Join us as we face some vulnerabilities and fears and walk our unique paths to wellness, together.

Just a Note: this is an uncensored show full of our personal opinions. So you will hear us cuss sometimes.

We keep our community and show ad free and open to helpers, your investment will help to directly build the brave space we all need. Support Being the Work by

And remember, we're not YOUR helpers. Everything here is our opinion and is intended to support you, not give professional advice. Get the help you need, when you need it, where you need it. Here are a few resources for mental health support for you and those you love: 

National Alliance on Mental Illness

US Substance Use and Mental Health Services Administration

National Suicide Prevention Lifeline

Transcripts

Ben:

I

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thought we came to the conclusion that

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I was a four

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Blakely: You are a

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Ben: of

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Blakely: dicky.

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Ben: Motivations and not because the

Stabile book is like, the behavior is

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super, like it is on point for me, but

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Blakely: behaviorally, with nine, right?

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Ben: yes,

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yes,

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Blakely: Motivation.

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And she specifically says that's

what confuses me when she even talks.

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She specifically says the

motivation is the key.

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There will be a lot of different ways

that that shows up different ways.

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People behave motivation key, but

then she'll give you a list of

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a lot of different ways that

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that are behaviors.

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different ways People behave motivation

key but then she'll give you a

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list of

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Ben: about,

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Blakely: that are behaviors.

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Ben: I think Aiden.

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the difference between you were

talking about Aiden and how comfort

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Blakely: because I was talking about

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Ben: like you could

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see the difference between his motivations

for comfort and my motivations for

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significance and from the really

harshness yeah, Not like, moving away

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from the really harshness of life.

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Um, cause I sort of romanticize

the, uh, wonder and the pain of

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life.

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Blakely: struggle.

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Ben: Mm hmm.

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And then, yeah.

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Blakely: I like in this book that I

use the S the essential Enneagram,

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Ben: Uh huh.

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Blakely: it has at the top of each

number, the basic proposition,

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which is this three piece thing.

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It's like the fundamental principle

I lost sight of early in life

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what I came to believe instead.

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And then the adaptive strategy I

developed as a result of this belief.

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So it gives you that, like, I

came to believe I missed this like

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core tenant of human existence.

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Or like I had something happen

to me that challenged it.

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I came to believe something else Or

and then developed a strategy to get

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through life I came to believe something

And so the way it breaks that down.

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and then I see it resonating a ton

with myself in confirming my eightness,

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especially after going off of last

week when I had a really down, like

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I really kind of paid attention

to myself and kind of stress mode.

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especially after going off of last

week when I had a And the way that

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that energy flow switches when I'm

good and when I'm not good, I feel that

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Ben: Yeah.

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What, what's the

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Blakely: good.

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And I lean into five when I'm not

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good.

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And it makes

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so much sense I feel that

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because nurturing too is,

well, the five is the.

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And it makes so much Uh, the, that's my

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the

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nurturing

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Ben: the,

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Blakely: stuff.

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Ben: um, I only have

this much energy at all.

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So I'm only using Right.

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It's

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Blakely: a closing in.

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Ben: um I only have this

much energy at all So I'm

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only using it for specific

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Blakely: a Yes,

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I'm

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Ben: anything else that

encroaches on that is a no.

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Mm

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Blakely: a general flow, when I'm doing

pretty well or pretty average or whatever,

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eights tend to have a lot more energy.

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And mine isn't necessarily physical, but

I tend to have a ton of mental energy.

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or pretty average or It can

go a lot of different places.

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It can shift gears quickly

and that I've, it like

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dissipated

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it can go a lot of different

places It all I could do was

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Ben: four

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the

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Blakely: dissipated

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Ben: stress and success

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Blakely: and all I could do was

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Ben: for the four might actually

help me understand further.

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Blakely: Yeah, I, I find that with myself.

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So for you, that would be

insecurity, a one, so more of a,

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um, a perfectionist and achiever

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insecurity a one under stress, a two.

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So I, when I'm good, I'm a two when

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Ben: Okay.

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Blakely: and under stress People pleasing,

probably, yours would more look when

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Ben: Sure.

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Yeah.

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codependency.

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Blakely: People pleasing, probably,

yours People pleasing would more look

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Ben: Yeah.

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Absolutely.

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That makes sense.

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That

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Blakely: Whereas, which, I didn't

finish, I didn't finish what I was

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saying about the basic preposition.

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So for a four, the fundamental

principle that you lost sight of early

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in life was at the core, everyone

has a deep and deep and complete

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connection to all others and all things.

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early in life was at the instead,

you came to believe that people

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experience a painful their original

to all others and all things instead

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you came to believe that people

experience a painful instead you

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came to believe that people experience a

their original connections, leaving them

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feeling abandoned and feeling that missing

something learning to keep searching for

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ideal love or perfect circumstance to make

feel loved, whole, and complete again.

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I developed feelings of longing

and envy for what was missing.

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or perfect circumstance to make feel loved

whole and complete As opposed to a nine.

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and envy for what missing

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and they're not that

drastically different.

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As opposed to a

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nine Huh.

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and they're not

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that drastically different similar.

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So nine's last side of everyone belongs

equally in a state of unconditional love

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and union and instead came to believe

that the world makes people unimportant or

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Ben: Wow.

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Yeah,

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Blakely: making comfort and belonging

a substitute for love and work.

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came to believe that the world

makes unimportant or strategy is

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through inertia through inertia

toward my own self and priorities.

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I forgot myself and merged with others.

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I substituted in essentials

and small comforts for my real

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Ben: I feel like

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Blakely: my own self and priorities

I forgot myself and merged with

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others I substituted in essentials

and small comforts for my real

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Ben: I feel like the, when we

talk about like deeper, more like

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meaningful, motivational things, um,

the four rings a bell deeper in my.

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My stomach and my gut, like it, it,

it rings more bells, but then like the

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description of nines, that's, it's spot

on, like it's absolutely describes what

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I did, but not necessarily like how I

felt or like the, the why behind the how,

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Blakely: Well, and that's at its face.

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They're similar experiences.

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Losing sight of a sense of equal

belonging and unconditional

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love as opposed to experiences

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losing sight of a deep and complete

connection to all others and all things.

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Like those sound really similar

to But the subtle difference there

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is and complete connection to

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Ben: Hmm

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Blakely: the subtle difference there is

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Ben: say those replacement beliefs again.

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Hmm

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Blakely: connections.

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Um, Lee, let's see, people

experience a painful loss of their

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original connections, leaving them

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Ben: Sure, sure.

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Blakely: feeling like

they are missing something

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important.

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Lee see So fours maintain that

sense of longing, whereas nines,

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like missing something nines

lean into blending in and

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using comfort and a sense of

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that sense of longing the sense of

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love and worth

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is missing.

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Ben: Yeah.

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Blakely: nines lean into blending

in and using comfort and a sense of

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Ben: Yeah, I would Yeah, I think

that that's, that's confusing

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Blakely: the

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Ben: But Yeah, no, I did both Yeah

I think that that's that's confusing

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Blakely: the sense

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Ben: But I do think, if I were to just

strip aside all of the things I do, and

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really look at what is inside of me.

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Comfort is not the, the law.

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Comfort's not the longing.

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Like that's it's not the motivation.

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Yeah, it's not the motivation.

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Blakely: Because if you were to answer,

if you were to finish the sentence,

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I do everything I can to avoid what?

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What Because do you avoid at all costs?

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What sensations, what

experiences, what emotions?

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what What do you avoid at all costs

What What do you avoid at all costs what

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sensations what experiences what emotions

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Ben: Rejection, uh, loneliness, shame.

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Blakely: That's

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Ben: Rejection?

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Blakely: laughter, sorry.

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said the first thing of one of

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these.

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Ben: Oh, really?

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Blakely: Yes, so I do everything to, I

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Ben: That's a four,

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Blakely: One of them is

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Ben: Yeah, right,

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Blakely: other one is being

rejected, abandoned, not heard.

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to I

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Ben: That's a four

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Blakely: One

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of

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Ben: take At least

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right you were laughing at my

answer I were laughing at I

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don't know that you were la

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I take At least I didn't take it

as you were laughing at my answer.

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I were laughing at how clear

it is for being a four.

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That answer And going, oh,

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Blakely: aware how that

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Ben: Yeah

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Oh, that's so Ben to to say

that answer And duh, this

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Blakely: very aware of how that

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Ben: Yeah

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Blakely: I was laughing at

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Ben: right,

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Blakely: I was just having a

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Ben: is,

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Blakely: aware of the,

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Ben: is

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the

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no,

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Blakely: what I was laughing at

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Ben: right low hanging fruit

that if someone was wanting to

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hate

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Blakely: the

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Ben: is the they loved that me go

low hanging fruit that if someone was

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wanting to hate and they loved me, is

a fuck Blakely, but, but, retriever

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that For me, like this is a safe place.

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I know that I'm a golden

retriever that just

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Blakely: Oh my gosh.

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Ben: And you know that too.

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So, uh, I accept that about myself.

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And I long for connection and meaning

and joy people I love and I care about.

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And Yeah, uh, feeling ousted, or left, or

rejected is some of the worst, uh, like,

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um, most lonely experience I can feel.

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Like, yeah, those are sort of the

key, when I look back at like, like,

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key moments in my life, those are it.

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Like, I've got Four, three or four,

just right off the top of my head.

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That.

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Yep.

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Blakely: mean, on the more

strength oriented side of it all,

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I guess, the, mean the thing that,

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I feel most resonant like personally

in terms of the either or that you're

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kind of the either/or that you have

been weighing out with this is that

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like personally I also think

you have more for energy because

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you're more future oriented

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I also we riff and vibe on the

could happen what could do and we

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and that's super for energy.

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the Nines are concerned

with staying comfortable.

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Ben: that I've, I mean,

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Blakely: thing

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energy

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Ben: stasis that want to keep is like

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Blakely: staying comfortable

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Ben: I don't that the relationships

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Blakely: thing

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Ben: I think the stasis that want to

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keep is like the, the comfort

of the relationships I have.

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And I want to deepen those,

not necessarily stay just

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in comfort for myself.

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Like, I've never done that, necessarily.

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Like, every few years I, like,

am looking for big changes.

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And that's,

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Blakely: Well, and just

the, the capacity to

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Ben: right.

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Blakely: and brainstorm, I, as someone who

does that seemingly all the fucking time.

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Ben: right

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Blakely: and Notice it when I

run into someone else who has it.

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And I think, I think it's a super

eight and super four commonality.

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Whereas where they don't feel like, like

the energies are very different, but that

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Ben: And that's we

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Blakely: things and to pursue things

and to better the future, in a

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Ben: When

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Blakely: feel like like the

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Ben: do uh the tasks

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and that's we

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Blakely: things and to pursue

things and to better the future in a

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Ben: When we weren't wanting to do,

uh, the tasks we were supposed to be

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Blakely: Which you would think is super

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Ben: But I was also, I also

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when I took the Enneagram, but yeah, I

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Blakely: that was never actually

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Ben: I

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Blakely: the

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Ben: I

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was also I also when I took the not

when I took the Enneagram but yeah I

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Blakely: that was never actually

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Ben: I

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Blakely: the thing I

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Ben: I didn't understand, you know, I

thought it was the same as like MBTI and,

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and StrengthsFinder and this stuff, but I

did, I didn't think I, I didn't question

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the nine result because of like how, Okay.

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So like the Strengths, the

StrengthsFinder really, I mean, it gave

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me my top five and I did this idea.

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sat down and it was like, empathy,

and context, and, Oh, just all

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these, all these, strategic thinking.

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Like, empathy was number one, and then

there was like, four strategic thinking.

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Blakely: well, and you had learner,

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Ben: yes.

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Blakely: is different than mine

because it's learning for learning sake

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Ben: in this like I am

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Right.

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Right.

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Blakely: is different than mine

because it's learning for learning sake

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Ben: I took a lot of pride in this,

like, I am empathetic, because

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I was, like, I had real lived

life experience of that, right?

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But it wasn't, anyways, so all of that

didn't, it made me not question Right

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Blakely: level quiz, got a surface

level result took it at surface level.

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As you're getting through some of this,

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are you

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Ben: Because, am.

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Because my empathy,

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Blakely: Or are those one

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Ben: my empathy

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Blakely: are you

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Ben: Because am Because my empathy

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Blakely: Or are those one

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Ben: my empathy is filtered

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Blakely: What is that?

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Ben: my lived experience of

the person in the moment and

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my ability to think about it.

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Cause like, I mean, we've talked about

this before like, you are more cognitively

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empathetic And I'm more effectively

or emotionally empathetic where I

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feel what the other person is feeling.

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And I get, I sense the vibe more than

I put the puzzle pieces together of

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cognition, if that makes any sense.

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Like,

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Blakely: feels a very

imagination land place,

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Ben: I can sense body language than I

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Blakely: I I

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Ben: People's stories

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Blakely: land place

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Ben: I can sense body

language a lot better than I

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Blakely: I I,

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Ben: People's stories

together, if that makes sense.

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Blakely: Well, and I don't think I'm

not, like, intuitive or perceptive.

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I feel like I have that, but it

is related more to this constant

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Ben: But think, that's

the, difference is is

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Blakely: absorption

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Ben: I think difference, at

But think that's the I think

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that's the difference is is

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Blakely: absorption

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Ben: I think difference at least the way

I'm understanding it right now, is that

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your energy is push forward and get to

solutions and understand what's happening

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and Um, put the puzzle pieces together.

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kind of Like, right, yes,

and effective, quickly.

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Like, let's just keep, snap, snap,

move, move, move, kind of energy.

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And

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Blakely: like, effective

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Ben: if I'm speaking DBT

language, emotion mind driven

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is more

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Blakely: like effective

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Ben: if I'm speaking DBT language

emotion mind driven And reason

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mind informed, if that makes sense.

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So, like, I, the main engine of my

understanding is closeness and body

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language and affect oriented things,

where Yours is more reason mind oriented

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things using some affect to inform,

not necessarily other way around.

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So mine is immediacy, like the actual

clinical interventions I'm using

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is a lot of body oriented immediacy

oriented body language, things to help

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me gain context to what's going on.

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And then I think about their story after

I know how it feels in that moment.

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And then I bring reflections of

meaning and content together.

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So, anyways, all, like I'm sound,

making it sound like I've done this

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strategically, but I, I haven't actually

thought about it all like this I the

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book stuff and going it's my lived

experience with, you know, after

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learning all the book stuff and then

going through the internship stuff and

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then the thousands of hours of therapy.

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facilitated.

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This is now my description of my

life or my lived experience with it.

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And so, no, I think, I think that the

four, and I like this because I've been

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doing a lot of the compassion work and

stripping away some of the concepts and

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facades that I've, I've built up over the

years and just Being able to settle in and

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say, no, it's not that you're just super

empathetic and you've got this skill.

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That's amazing.

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It's you're actually the antenna for

sensitivity is everywhere in your life.

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And this is the way that you've

you've decided to employ it.

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Uh, for this bigger which sounds, as I'm

saying it, sounds very much like a four.

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Right?

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Like, I am so, so sensitive

to everything in my life.

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I just want to make a difference and,

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Blakely: Of

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Ben: yeah,

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so I think we've settled on it.

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I'm a four.

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Blakely: Of course

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Ben: I'm a four.

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recommendations did you say?

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You said prepared to Mm did

you say You said prepared to

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talk about recommendations.

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Like, what?

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Mm

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Blakely: of my mind, the last conversation

we had and sort of meandering through

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the sense of So I've I don't what

your energy is and where it goes and

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what your blind spots tend to be.

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And these different pieces that I

know kind of make you up and the

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things that I know motivate you.

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And it's just fun to

get out of my own head.

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And I think we have this kind of

like opposite sides of the magnet

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And it's just fun to get out

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of And so, And I think we yeah, I just

want to tell you to do a bunch of shit

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you don't want to of the magnet thing make

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Ben: Yeah and

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Blakely: Isn't that what I signed

up to do with my entire profession?

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Now I just get to

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do it to you.

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Ben: Right,

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Blakely: make

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Ben: Yeah and automatically

I'm going, I can't

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Blakely: Isn't that what I

signed up to do with my entire

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profession Now I just get Ugh!

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I know, and I have to run through

that filter too, of like, I can't,

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push harder than I'm willing to be pushed.

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But I feel like we're ready.

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We're good.

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too of like And I decided

was gonna kind of level it.

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So, I had a great AP English

teacher in high school.

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that And one of our big projects was

Memorizing a Shakespearean monologue,

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And one

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of

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Ben: that's

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Blakely: projects was

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you, ahead of time, I'm not

making you memorize the monologue

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Stay

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Ben: say, I don't know that that's gonna

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Blakely: you

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Ben: Ah.

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Blakely: me.

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but what he did

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Ben: Uh

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Blakely: we choose the level.

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:

you want to see, you can choose one

of these shorter If you want to be,

425

:

Ben: Uh

426

:

Blakely: right?

427

:

I mean, I'm an A bitch.

428

:

I did a long ass monologue If

429

:

Ben: give me some

430

:

Blakely: Lady Macbeth shit.

431

:

Yeah,

432

:

Ben: you're gonna give me some

433

:

Blakely: I mean I'm an a

434

:

bitch

435

:

Ben: do you wanna be,

436

:

Blakely: know you won't

like, don't need a grade, but

437

:

Ben: you're gonna give me some choice.

438

:

Blakely: the point

439

:

Ben: How how do you wanna

440

:

be

441

:

Blakely: I know

442

:

you won't like you some things that I

feel could be beneficial or motivating,

443

:

Ben: Mm

444

:

Blakely: some but that you avoid

or don't seem to lean into.

445

:

Ben: hmm.

446

:

Blakely: Cause was thinking about but

that mindfulness to me relates to self

447

:

care and the how and what of mindfulness

is why I was trying to remember those

448

:

Cause I was thinking about sort of kind

of what I was angling these around.

449

:

So observe, describe, participate of

is why I was trying to nonjudgmentally,

450

:

one mindfully and effectively.

451

:

these around And I feel like you

observe constantly and naturally.

452

:

and effectively So that's not the

piece of self care I'm pushing for

453

:

naturally like Describe is just, you

know, a daily of what we do anyway.

454

:

of self care I'm pushing for

455

:

feel like Ben is a four

with nine behaviors.

456

:

He feels very deeply and does not

like to leave his comfort zone.

457

:

is a four with behaviors

458

:

And I just feel like like

to leave his comfort zone

459

:

effectively, non judgmentally, and one

mindfully diving into participating

460

:

in something would be great.

461

:

and one And you know that thing where

I said, why the fuck do I always

462

:

great either intense survival

or intense drama shows?

463

:

And Ben only watches funny always

464

:

Ben: Yeah?

465

:

Okay.

466

:

Blakely: don't know if Ben

knows where I'm going with this.

467

:

But if you want to get an A,

468

:

Ben only watches funny have your homework.

469

:

Ben: Okay

470

:

Blakely: don't know if Ben knows where

I want you if you want to get an A

471

:

Ben: ho ho ho ho god okay

472

:

Blakely: improv

473

:

I want you

474

:

Ben: ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho

ho ho ho ho ho ho ho god, okay.

475

:

Blakely: improv class.

476

:

This is the pinnacle of my

477

:

Ben: class

478

:

Blakely: Do It

479

:

Ben: Okay.

480

:

Blakely: dreams.

481

:

This is the

482

:

pinnacle of my

483

:

Ben: Improv

484

:

Blakely: you can just like, go

485

:

Ben: Oh

486

:

Blakely: dreams

487

:

Ben: go to a show.

488

:

Blakely: I know a woman on

an improv an improv troupe

489

:

Ben: Okay.

490

:

Blakely: is

491

:

Ben: Honestly, the Organizing all of the

schedule to figure that out is the, the,

492

:

at least the initial discomfort, but

493

:

I

494

:

Blakely: for the record, I don't

necessarily, maybe I'm getting

495

:

ahead of myself, because I don't

consider this, this exercise to be

496

:

the one and done and I'll be all do

the thing I tell you to do and then

497

:

Ben: yeah,

498

:

Blakely: don't even necessarily

499

:

Ben: totally get the,

500

:

Blakely: I'm suggesting.

501

:

Ben: the rationale

502

:

Blakely: that that's the

one thing came do and then

503

:

when I'm considering these

different pieces suggesting

504

:

Ben: the rationale

505

:

Blakely: that that's the one

thing came to considering And so

506

:

logistics wise I'm here for it.

507

:

Ben: yeah, Yeah, yeah.

508

:

bit

509

:

Blakely: I

510

:

Ben: and then as I about it, I think

511

:

Blakely: how does that go for

512

:

it

513

:

Ben: I panic a little bit

514

:

Blakely: I

515

:

Ben: and then as I about

it I think no, that

516

:

Blakely: how does that go for you?

517

:

Ben: if I think about it objectively, as

I'm not here cringing in my skin, I think,

518

:

yeah, that's a good idea for that person.

519

:

and I realize I'm intellectualizing,

to stave off my discomfort about all.

520

:

Blakely: we, are, we're

putting should on a shelf.

521

:

So whatever I'm saying you

could do isn't even a should.

522

:

It's an example of the energy

I would love to you embrace.

523

:

Which is humor and Getting uncomfy for

524

:

Ben: which I feel

525

:

Blakely: I would love to you embrace

Which is humor and Getting uncomfy for

526

:

Ben: which I feel like I have,

I definitely feel like I have

527

:

access to, and I have done before,

particularly when I was, when

528

:

Blakely: gonna go to stuff thought about.

529

:

Ben: a

530

:

pediatric clinician.

531

:

a

532

:

Blakely: ding ding!

533

:

ding!

534

:

I was next door.

535

:

I heard all of the

536

:

Ben: Yeah, Yes

537

:

Blakely: blast.

538

:

A lot.

539

:

Ben: I did have a

540

:

Blakely: Ding

541

:

ding

542

:

Ben: No you didn't.

543

:

You didn't.

544

:

I, I was sad.

545

:

I well as

546

:

Blakely: I don't know that I had as much

547

:

Ben: with No You

548

:

didn't You didn't I I was sad

I was next to you as well as

549

:

Blakely: I don't know that I had as much

550

:

Ben: as annoyed with you or I'm just

sorry as annoyed as you were with me.

551

:

I felt sad for you.

552

:

At level, because you were just

sitting there, and while I was

553

:

doing, Yes, and, uh, the, uh, someone

554

:

Blakely: I recall,

yelling about their mom a

555

:

Ben: as

556

:

Yes and the someone

557

:

Blakely: I recall

yelling about their mom a

558

:

Ben: as well.

559

:

Blakely: Oh, yeah.

560

:

yeah.

561

:

That wasn't a regular,

562

:

Ben: No, no, no, that

563

:

was just one incident.

564

:

Blakely: Yeah This is why they shouldn't

put pediatric next door to the walk

565

:

Ben: Walk in crisis.

566

:

Blakely: Yes, it was, uh, sometimes.

567

:

This is why we expressed

some concern about it.

568

:

to walk

569

:

Because I think maybe my clients

traumatized your clients a little extra.

570

:

it is why we expressed some concern

about it that is something that I was

571

:

thinking about, is what could I put

together in my mind, at least in my

572

:

imagination, without asking you directly?

573

:

What's what And it just

seems like silliness.

574

:

Life has

575

:

gotten really serious.

576

:

Ben: has

577

:

Blakely: And it just seems like the

little moments, like you're not seeing

578

:

Ben: you?

579

:

know we did

580

:

Blakely: Not little, Not younger ones

581

:

Ben: No, ones

582

:

that I would

583

:

Blakely: the little

moments you're not seeing

584

:

Ben: you know we did

585

:

Blakely: Not little not younger ones

586

:

Ben: folding paper airplanes

and, uh, laughing yoga and, come

587

:

up with plays or little skits.

588

:

So, yeah, for sure.

589

:

I, I'm not opposed to it.

590

:

I'm not opposed to it.

591

:

I do think I need some of your,

your social work help to get

592

:

some resources together for that.

593

:

So if, you are willing to help me, then

sure, I'll, I'll definitely look into it.

594

:

And then, I will your help to actually

follow through with it, but right now,

595

:

no, I'm not totally opposed to that.

596

:

kind of, I am kind of excited

597

:

as well as scared with Yeah.

598

:

Yeah, yeah.

599

:

Blakely: Okay.

600

:

Ben: Okay.

601

:

Mm hmm.

602

:

hmm.

603

:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

604

:

Okay, so, is there anything else?

605

:

Does you have anything else?

606

:

Blakely: easier that I

think we should do anyway.

607

:

Which was less whimsy, but still

the, like, you get uncomfortable

608

:

and participate because we've

talked a little bit about a

609

:

couple of organizations near us

610

:

Ben: Mm hmm.

611

:

Blakely: um, the like you get

uncomfortable actual meditation classes

612

:

Ben: would, uh, yeah.

613

:

mean,

614

:

Blakely: us

615

:

Ben: Mm hmm together.

616

:

Blakely: I would like for us to

just do that anyway, probably

617

:

classes

618

:

Ben: would uh yeah mean

619

:

Blakely: And so I went with something

little bit silly and fun, but I

620

:

think that's an important one anyway.

621

:

And it's one I want to do anyway.

622

:

Um,

623

:

Ben: think would already like to do that

624

:

Blakely: but I think

625

:

that's B grade option, to do anyway

626

:

but I just think Um,

627

:

Ben: think would already

628

:

like to do that for a B grade.

629

:

Blakely: B grade.

630

:

option,

631

:

Ben: how I've operated

632

:

Blakely: It's a D.

633

:

Ben: That's fine.

634

:

D.

635

:

is on the way an A, which

636

:

is how I've operated

637

:

Blakely: It's D.

638

:

Ben: You know, after realizing I have

ADHD, inattentive to be specific, I

639

:

realized that throughout all of my

schooling, I sat next to either two

640

:

people, the smart kids that helped me

actually achieve a good grade, or the

641

:

silly kids that I had a lot of fun with.

642

:

in my master's degree,

funnily enough, I had both.

643

:

Um, had a fellow ADH, ADH doer.

644

:

that we had the passion and

the drive and the enthusiasm.

645

:

but then we, we both, one of our friends

was also, more neurotypical, you know.

646

:

But, anyways, uh, where

was I going with that?

647

:

Fuck.

648

:

Um,

649

:

Blakely: For real, uh,

we were talking about

650

:

Ben: Yes grades.

651

:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

652

:

So, the the perfectionism came

strategic for me to get good grades,

653

:

but once, once it got into just

things I was really interested in,

654

:

I was able be a better achiever.

655

:

Anyways, so this sort of ties in.

656

:

I'm going to do sort of like a,

a, a mangled segue into what I'm,

657

:

Blakely: how that helps.

658

:

Ben: what I was thinking about for you,

659

:

if, uh, you're ready.

660

:

So, as I have, over the few years,

as I have sort of deconstructed my

661

:

Achiever Perfectionism, and have, been

more gentle and compassionate with

662

:

myself, it's definitely a practice.

663

:

It's not a, it's not something

that I get perfectly.

664

:

But it's definitely, when I'm able to get

there, I remember what, progress I've had.

665

:

So, can you help me remember

some of the eight stuff?

666

:

I can't remember.

667

:

I think the Virgo was The

energy that I felt from our last

668

:

conversation is, uh, very much a No?

669

:

What are you?

670

:

Capricorn.

671

:

to remember exactly and Capricorn.

672

:

Okay, well, so that's not a great start

to remember exactly what Hehehehehehe

673

:

means but

674

:

Blakely: no

675

:

Ben: I don't know what that,

676

:

I don't know what that means but

uh, I have feeling I'll learn.

677

:

Blakely: I don't have any close to me.

678

:

It's just all that I am aware

679

:

Ben: Okay.

680

:

So let's see.

681

:

Blakely: don't have any close to me.

682

:

It's just all that I am aware

683

:

Ben: Okay, so eights, they're

intense, they drive forward, they're

684

:

about effectiveness, get shit done.

685

:

They don't mind fighting fights advocating

for things that need to be accomplished.

686

:

They are really avoidant with

vulnerability and use anger.

687

:

Like, they filter their

vulnerabilities into anger to

688

:

push forward and to make progress.

689

:

And whatever moon sign or sun

sign or whatever we want to call

690

:

it, it was very much around that.

691

:

You said Sagittarius and Capricorn?

692

:

Is that

693

:

Blakely: Mm hmm.

694

:

Yeah.

695

:

Ben: So you're like a

696

:

cusper, I guess, is what I think you

697

:

said.

698

:

Blakely: Yeah.

699

:

it's weird because I'm December 21st and

700

:

most things say Sagittarius.

701

:

Every once in a while start on December

702

:

Ben: Ates

703

:

Blakely: most say Sagittarius

704

:

Every once in a while 21st.

705

:

Ben: Ates are also uh, loyal, but

distrusting, and sort of rigid

706

:

with that, very protective of

themselves and the people they love.

707

:

Blakely: Do you want that basic

proposition thing for the eight?

708

:

Ben: that'd be good.

709

:

Blakely: The fundamental principle

I lost sight of is everyone begins

710

:

in innocence, coming freshly to

each moment, and everyone can sense

711

:

principle is Which I will just

say, everyone can sense truth.

712

:

I already want to

713

:

sense

714

:

Ben: Right.

715

:

smarter Well yeah,

716

:

Blakely: I'm trying to just read Not

even that I'm smarter than everybody.

717

:

I don't even know if

718

:

Ben: trust anyone

719

:

Blakely: but I don't

feel like everyone can.

720

:

Ben: no

721

:

Blakely: I'm trying just read

Not even that I'm smarter than

722

:

everybody I don't

723

:

even know if

724

:

Ben: trust anyone

725

:

Blakely: but I don't feel like everyone

726

:

can to

727

:

Ben: astrology too.

728

:

I also, also, like, I that was the

729

:

Blakely: I'm trying to

730

:

Ben: astrology too I am seeking and

when I find I hold strong to it.

731

:

So, you lost sight that everyone begins

in innocence and can sense truth.

732

:

Blakely: Yes.

733

:

What I came to believe instead is

it is a hard and unjust world in

734

:

take advantage of

735

:

which must be resisted.

736

:

is it is a

737

:

hard know that?

738

:

world in

739

:

take advantage

740

:

Ben: No!

741

:

Blakely: which must

742

:

be

743

:

Ben: of

744

:

Blakely: Are you looking around?

745

:

Ben: this is

746

:

Blakely: know that

747

:

Ben: it

748

:

Blakely: I can't

749

:

Ben: that This is part of

750

:

Blakely: Are you looking around

751

:

Ben: when people don't see it

752

:

Blakely: I can't stop.

753

:

Ben: you are just disoriented.

754

:

mine mine

755

:

Blakely: glaringly

756

:

Ben: exactly.

757

:

exactly.

758

:

So,

759

:

Blakely: you want my

adaptive strategy real It's

760

:

other

761

:

Ben: let's go with that.

762

:

Blakely: I learned to become strong

and powerful by imposing my own truth

763

:

and by hiding my vulnerability in

order to protect myself and others and

764

:

to gain respect and a sense of worth.

765

:

I developed a forceful, big,

766

:

lustful energy.

767

:

energy and came to rely

on my own instincts.

768

:

a sense of worth I developed a forceful

769

:

Ben: sounds lonely

770

:

Blakely: energy just

771

:

Ben: the

772

:

Blakely: own instincts

773

:

and came to rely on

774

:

Ben: your own strength.

775

:

And power to impose your truth, to

protect your vulnerability, to protect

776

:

other people, to gain respect and worth,

and you've learned to rely on your

777

:

own sense of intellect If I stay in

the same sort of advice structure over

778

:

the mindfulness skills from I like it.

779

:

you either sit still observe, you

get active and describe, or you get

780

:

more active and you participate.

781

:

all the what skills.

782

:

So, non judgment is a skill

that you struggle with.

783

:

To take that further into

acceptance is even harder.

784

:

Particularly when it's, when

it's like, when you aren't in

785

:

an influential role, right?

786

:

So like, when you're, when you are your

social work self, and you are helping

787

:

someone you are in the influence.

788

:

And so, Uh accept it's, it's very

easy for you to, accept and not

789

:

judge people who are either in their

weakness or in their innocence.

790

:

You are willing to be strong

with them, them, lend them some

791

:

of your strength to help them.

792

:

But when it's just you, and your

worldview up against the world, laughter

793

:

so one

794

:

So, I, I think where I'm

going with this is, um, see.

795

:

So one is

796

:

I don't know how to say this,

so I'm just gonna say it.

797

:

vulnerability

798

:

To non judgmentally

observe your vulnerability

799

:

Blakely: Okay,

800

:

Ben: Mwahahahaha!

801

:

Blakely: sounds like a thing

that is, would be done.

802

:

Ben: what do you, what?

803

:

then

804

:

Blakely: a, like a, a thing

that would be done, but

805

:

done

806

:

Ben: A thing that would be done.

807

:

You're asking

808

:

inaccessible, It's like what the

809

:

Blakely: a thing seemingly Yes.

810

:

Seemingly inaccessible.

811

:

Ben: Yes, the idea here is

inaccessible It's like what the, fuck

812

:

Blakely: seemingly

813

:

And this is, oh my God, this

814

:

Ben: Well think mean if I it into

active if I put it into active

815

:

Blakely: to be

816

:

this

817

:

Ben: Well think the I mean I put it

into active if I put it into active

818

:

Blakely: to be

819

:

Ben: rather than I

820

:

Blakely: is such

821

:

Ben: accept your vulnerability rather

than just protect your vulnerability.

822

:

And so, something scared of is

something that needs to be experienced.

823

:

And challenge, like, the judgment of

such needs to be challenged and embraced.

824

:

The, the essence of this suggestion

is you don't have to fight yourself

825

:

and your own fear and vulnerability.

826

:

There's so much out there already.

827

:

Like, okay, so if I take this backwards.

828

:

Blakely: Mm

829

:

Ben: begins in innocence

and can sense truth.

830

:

There was at some point that

that was, easy truth for you, as

831

:

a little baby, I would imagine.

832

:

then you realize that the powerful

take advantage of the weak.

833

:

And so you had to build your own power.

834

:

But the message learned was I have

to extinguish vulnerability, right?

835

:

you know, I'm calling bullshit on that.

836

:

I think this is something that you

already know how to do because I've

837

:

seen it in you, particularly when

are the one in the power or the

838

:

influence when giving it to others.

839

:

Like, you are helping others, you're

lending them your power and your

840

:

influence and your strength and

character to help them out of their

841

:

weakness and out of their vulnerability.

842

:

you're able to be there in

loving presence with them.

843

:

And that's what I'm wanting for you.

844

:

it can heal some of wounds

of you abandoning yourself.

845

:

As a little baby when you were saying I

had to find my own strength to control my

846

:

own vulnerability to oppose the powerful

in this world so that I can protect

847

:

myself and protect the ones I love.

848

:

it feels like a split.

849

:

compassion

850

:

To me, it's like the stitching

together of you having self compassion

851

:

Blakely: Mm

852

:

Ben: That's sort of the

essence of what I'm suggesting.

853

:

What are your initial reactions

beside, uh, a thing that can be done.

854

:

Blakely: Well, it's just, yeah, sure,

of course, that makes sense, but

855

:

I'm not going to, and I don't know

856

:

Ben: it's it's definitely

857

:

Blakely: yep, I mean, it's easy, it's

actually easy to say, yeah, yeah, I'm

858

:

gonna do that, I'm not going I don't know

859

:

Ben: it's it's definitely

860

:

Blakely: what, and that's,

that's just my authentic, like,

861

:

I'm gonna do that

862

:

sounds like an easy thing to say

you're going to do because it's just

863

:

a, like a, the spirit of it all.

864

:

And sure.

865

:

I love my vulnerability.

866

:

No, I don't.

867

:

to say you're going to do because

868

:

it's just a like a the spirit of it all

869

:

a bridge.

870

:

I don't, I'm not seeing

over No I don't it's

871

:

yeah, I see it.

872

:

Ben: Yes I okay so I

873

:

Blakely: over the can

874

:

Ben: Yeah.

875

:

problem

876

:

Blakely: that

877

:

vulnerability and self

878

:

yeah I see it

879

:

Ben: Yes I okay so I presented

you I presented you the problem

880

:

Blakely: that and self

881

:

Ben: and the idea of a solution.

882

:

But not necessarily how to get there.

883

:

Blakely: Where was

884

:

Ben: Yeah you're kind of being you're you

885

:

Blakely: I'm being

886

:

Ben: Acceptance.

887

:

Yeah

888

:

Blakely: Where was

889

:

Ben: Yeah.

890

:

you're kind of being an asshole.

891

:

Like, you're

892

:

Blakely: I'm being

893

:

Ben: I mean you are

894

:

Blakely: is,

895

:

Ben: Which, I,

896

:

Blakely: not

897

:

Ben: So like no no where it's

898

:

Blakely: I know that like, mockery

899

:

is my I'm not

900

:

and I'm not, I'm just,

901

:

Ben: how to doing

902

:

and so

903

:

Blakely: I have no

904

:

fucking

905

:

you're talking about.

906

:

know

907

:

Ben: I'm asking you to do something

908

:

Blakely: and I'm not I'm just

909

:

Ben: how to do or are comfortable

910

:

doing and so

911

:

Blakely: no

912

:

fucking

913

:

Ben: went

914

:

into the

915

:

Blakely: you just sign up

and pay 30 and you go on the

916

:

Ben: to embrace more no you went into the

917

:

Blakely: you just sign up

and pay 30 and you go on the

918

:

Ben: to embrace more whimsy embrace

919

:

more fun do this just like,

920

:

Yeah,

921

:

pushing back on

922

:

Blakely: yes

923

:

Ben: No, look

924

:

Blakely: in my hand today?

925

:

Ben: Look, I'm I'm learning how to do this

just like you're, you're pushing back on

926

:

Blakely: today

927

:

So how can I have this in my hand today

928

:

Ben: Yeah you're like, no, don't explore

this right now, Ben, because if you don't

929

:

explore it, I don't have to do anything

930

:

Blakely: I'm here for it.

931

:

And I don't know how to get there.

932

:

And I'm gonna need a, uh, I need a map.

933

:

it Because I feel like I definitely feel

the shoulds of I should know how to just

934

:

do that because of who I am and what I do.

935

:

but the of part

936

:

Ben: huh Uh huh

937

:

Uh

938

:

Blakely: do little hole and

masking it always with other stuff.

939

:

And it's a, it's authentically, it's a

lot of what I'm talking about right now.

940

:

I find myself in a

941

:

Ben: huh

942

:

Blakely: in life

943

:

Ben: Okay

944

:

Blakely: And it's a it's authentically

945

:

Ben: Okay So

946

:

Pima has

947

:

this

948

:

Blakely: a

949

:

Ben: huh

950

:

Blakely: in life

951

:

Ben: Okay Okay Okay.

952

:

Blakely: mm

953

:

Ben: Pema Chodron has this book It's

called The Places That Scare You.

954

:

Blakely: mm

955

:

Ben: Oh, I guess you're gonna have Right

956

:

Blakely: like the only one I don't have.

957

:

If that doesn't say

958

:

Ben: You're gonna Right Right

959

:

Blakely: like over I don't

960

:

Ben: So, yes, Pema Chodron book.

961

:

It's called The Places That Scare You.

962

:

There is, in the seventh chapter,

is called Loving Kindness.

963

:

Blakely: yeah, Maitri.

964

:

Ben: yes, Maitri.

965

:

Um

966

:

train

967

:

Blakely: my tree

968

:

Ben: are so

969

:

Blakely: Oh I used to do my

970

:

Ben: says We train in seeing that

others are so different from ourselves.

971

:

Feels like the original,

Everyone begins in innocence.

972

:

for

973

:

We train in opening our hearts and minds

in increasingly difficult situations.

974

:

for aspiring Bod his sat-vas.

975

:

for the aspiring loving kindness

warrior, I think is what.

976

:

This is the essential practice to

cultivate loving kindness, open

977

:

heartedness, open mindedness, a.

978

:

k.

979

:

a.

980

:

Maitri, in the Shambhala teachings

is called placing our fearful mind

981

:

in the cradle of loving kindness.

982

:

Another image for Maitri or loving

kindness is that of a mother bird

983

:

who protects and cares for her young.

984

:

Until they are strong enough to fly away.

985

:

People sometimes ask,

who am I in this image?

986

:

The mother or the chicks?

987

:

The answer is that we are both.

988

:

And this is what I mean from the

Enneagram, idea there, that you

989

:

were split from this idea that

everyone was born into innocence

990

:

and has the ability to see truth.

991

:

And I think that.

992

:

In that process, you've also lost

the ability to see that your own

993

:

vulnerability is not weakness, that your

own vulnerability makes you human and

994

:

is a strength and is something that can

be loved on like a baby chick, that you

995

:

don't always have to be the mom who is

always protecting and, and caring for.

996

:

And I feel like this is very much like

your day to day life, which is all.

997

:

always the responsibility on you and

you have to do more shit where I think

998

:

Blakely: No because it's on it's

999

:

Ben: you to experience

loving kindness for yourself.

:

00:42:51,867 --> 00:42:57,357

So anyway, she, in this, in this

chapter, she goes on to talk about

:

00:42:57,367 --> 00:43:01,382

actual, to cultivate loving kindness.

:

00:43:01,629 --> 00:43:03,309

That's what, that's my suggestion.

:

00:43:03,319 --> 00:43:07,785

And since you've already done it, just

like your suggestion was, uh, for me,

:

00:43:07,825 --> 00:43:12,852

a thing that I'd already done, I think

it's, uh, wonderful and appropriate.

:

00:43:13,443 --> 00:43:14,503

Blakely: Oh my gosh.

:

00:43:15,233 --> 00:43:17,203

There are a couple of things

that it makes me think about.

:

00:43:17,635 --> 00:43:18,595

One being,

:

00:43:19,074 --> 00:43:20,094

Ben: being unclear

:

00:43:21,373 --> 00:43:22,271

Blakely: There are a couple of things

:

00:43:22,271 --> 00:43:22,501

Ben: it

:

00:43:22,751 --> 00:43:23,591

Blakely: sorry for being a dick.

:

00:43:23,870 --> 00:43:24,930

Ben: No, sorry for being

:

00:43:24,991 --> 00:43:25,211

Blakely: No,

:

00:43:25,211 --> 00:43:25,771

actually.

:

00:43:26,421 --> 00:43:26,611

no,

:

00:43:26,611 --> 00:43:27,521

and that's fine.

:

00:43:27,740 --> 00:43:28,520

Ben: appreciate it.

:

00:43:28,770 --> 00:43:28,850

I

:

00:43:29,111 --> 00:43:31,181

Blakely: It wasn't even, it

wasn't even that it was unclear.

:

00:43:31,211 --> 00:43:31,741

It was just.

:

00:43:32,301 --> 00:43:33,641

I'll stick to that inaccessible

:

00:43:33,641 --> 00:43:33,921

word.

:

00:43:34,060 --> 00:43:34,580

that's fine

:

00:43:35,001 --> 00:43:37,191

I just felt it's, yes,

a thing that's hovering

:

00:43:37,231 --> 00:43:38,711

Ben: Hey it's real

:

00:43:39,212 --> 00:43:40,012

Blakely: it's a haunting

:

00:43:40,042 --> 00:43:41,162

Ben: skin and bones on it

:

00:43:41,325 --> 00:43:41,565

Blakely: felt

:

00:43:41,716 --> 00:43:42,306

it's made it corporeal.

:

00:43:42,355 --> 00:43:43,145

thing that's hovering

:

00:43:43,185 --> 00:43:44,665

Ben: Hey it's real

:

00:43:44,777 --> 00:43:45,220

Blakely: haunting

:

00:43:45,250 --> 00:43:46,370

Ben: skin and bones on it

:

00:43:46,705 --> 00:43:50,135

Blakely: it speaks a lot to what

I was talking about last time.

:

00:43:50,205 --> 00:43:55,475

I think you really heard me when I was

saying that I untethered myself from

:

00:43:55,485 --> 00:43:59,301

all of these like rules and restrictions

you really heard me when I urgency

:

00:43:59,321 --> 00:44:03,380

and intensity of, of community mental

health from all of these like rules

:

00:44:03,395 --> 00:44:08,825

restrictions I've been, like, I've

let all those leashes go and I've kind

:

00:44:08,825 --> 00:44:14,437

of cut myself loose on being kind of,

kind of impulsive and compulsive in

:

00:44:14,692 --> 00:44:15,382

Ben: it's just a lot

:

00:44:15,406 --> 00:44:15,586

Blakely: cut

:

00:44:15,672 --> 00:44:16,412

Ben: structured

:

00:44:16,945 --> 00:44:19,135

Blakely: I don't know kind

of impulsive and a lot.

:

00:44:19,370 --> 00:44:21,610

And it has let me,

:

00:44:22,550 --> 00:44:25,300

yes, yes, but also, also uncensored.

:

00:44:25,300 --> 00:44:26,582

Like I've let my it,

:

00:44:26,592 --> 00:44:31,615

has let me yes and just kind

of, I get angry if I don't,

:

00:44:31,788 --> 00:44:36,683

and not in an effective or helpful

way if I'm I attending to it.

:

00:44:36,692 --> 00:44:37,252

if I don't

:

00:44:37,753 --> 00:44:42,392

I have to regulate it and like, actually

care for myself in ways that don't if

:

00:44:42,392 --> 00:44:45,534

I'm not attending to it and those are

things that I haven't been doing because

:

00:44:45,784 --> 00:44:47,023

I care for myself

:

00:44:47,174 --> 00:44:51,472

been going with a lot of, make me uh,

I was a hedonist for about a year and

:

00:44:51,472 --> 00:44:54,322

a half after that, and then I kind

of started trying to get it together,

:

00:44:54,332 --> 00:44:55,792

and now I feel like I actually mean

:

00:44:56,491 --> 00:44:56,741

I.

:

00:44:56,955 --> 00:44:57,895

That I want this.

:

00:44:57,985 --> 00:45:02,526

I want a spirit that I don't have

right now actually mean for me,

:

00:45:02,586 --> 00:45:06,466

not for other people and getting

something for me is a lot harder

:

00:45:06,466 --> 00:45:10,136

to be motivated behind than to get

something that other people need me for.

:

00:45:10,898 --> 00:45:12,348

that's always a trap that I fall down.

:

00:45:12,388 --> 00:45:13,718

It's a trap that I fall down at work.

:

00:45:13,748 --> 00:45:15,138

Like other people need me to do this.

:

00:45:15,438 --> 00:45:17,198

That's automatically motivation.

:

00:45:17,538 --> 00:45:19,848

I can get out from under my cloud of shit.

:

00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:20,740

And just do it.

:

00:45:20,740 --> 00:45:21,800

But when it's something that

:

00:45:21,925 --> 00:45:22,955

Ben: Getting motivated to do it it's

:

00:45:23,190 --> 00:45:25,306

Blakely: something that I

even want to do for me, Eh.

:

00:45:25,531 --> 00:45:25,811

Ben: Getting

:

00:45:25,847 --> 00:45:26,117

Blakely: Eh.

:

00:45:26,251 --> 00:45:26,561

Ben: to do it it's

:

00:45:26,796 --> 00:45:27,166

Blakely: something that I

:

00:45:27,237 --> 00:45:29,557

And knowing just what to do.

:

00:45:29,617 --> 00:45:32,997

Like, I can't give myself homework the

same way that someone else can from

:

00:45:32,997 --> 00:45:34,527

an objective, more objective place.

:

00:45:35,219 --> 00:45:39,679

And I respect and appreciate

and trust your perspective,

:

00:45:40,949 --> 00:45:41,669

And

:

00:45:42,125 --> 00:45:42,325

Ben: yeah

:

00:45:42,380 --> 00:45:44,259

Blakely: that initial, even and trust your

:

00:45:44,445 --> 00:45:44,725

Ben: both

:

00:45:45,383 --> 00:45:46,003

Blakely: anyway

:

00:45:46,499 --> 00:45:47,749

Ben: discomfort the

:

00:45:48,588 --> 00:45:48,788

yeah

:

00:45:48,843 --> 00:45:50,223

Blakely: that initial even that

:

00:45:50,288 --> 00:45:52,338

Ben: We we both expected this, right?

:

00:45:52,428 --> 00:45:59,585

Like the pushback, the discomfort the fuck

yous, because it is about, this is what

:

00:45:59,585 --> 00:46:04,655

self care is hard We need each other for

feedback, and we need each other point

:

00:46:04,675 --> 00:46:10,505

out the things that we needs to be called

out on our own bullshit in a way that is

:

00:46:10,835 --> 00:46:14,465

loving and accepting and also challenging.

:

00:46:14,475 --> 00:46:16,215

And Self care.

:

00:46:16,875 --> 00:46:20,677

has been reduced down to coping skills.

:

00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,670

And coping skills help us maintain

the system, help us maintain the

:

00:46:25,670 --> 00:46:27,650

processes that are already there

:

00:46:27,875 --> 00:46:32,155

Everything else wants us to be

able to continue functioning the

:

00:46:32,155 --> 00:46:37,170

way that we should rather than

actually achieve any wellness.

:

00:46:37,721 --> 00:46:40,721

And that's, that's what

we're calling bullshit on.

:

00:46:41,046 --> 00:46:44,226

And so we call bullshit on each

other to support each other.

:

00:46:45,072 --> 00:46:50,639

Blakely: Well, and I need, I need

the, the direction of, cause I,

:

00:46:51,149 --> 00:46:54,389

I've been grasping at the essence

of what you're saying without,

:

00:46:54,918 --> 00:46:55,508

of

:

00:46:56,089 --> 00:46:57,809

it's almost like I'm aware

that I'm blind to it.

:

00:46:57,819 --> 00:46:58,209

Right.

:

00:46:58,809 --> 00:47:03,349

Like I can't quite get at what I need

to, what bridge I need to cross to get

:

00:47:03,349 --> 00:47:05,969

where I know I have been and want to be.

:

00:47:06,088 --> 00:47:08,478

I can't quite get at what I need to

:

00:47:08,689 --> 00:47:09,779

And I'm really,

:

00:47:09,914 --> 00:47:12,114

Ben: Right

:

00:47:12,209 --> 00:47:14,421

Blakely: time to be not shoulds,

:

00:47:14,450 --> 00:47:15,540

And I'm really

:

00:47:15,675 --> 00:47:17,875

Ben: Right

:

00:47:17,970 --> 00:47:18,560

Blakely: time about just

:

00:47:18,651 --> 00:47:22,631

actually being effective, being

honest with myself, being where

:

00:47:22,631 --> 00:47:26,900

I'm at, acknowledging that I

may, I may still pursue therapy.

:

00:47:26,930 --> 00:47:29,110

I don't think I'll pursue

the relationship that I would

:

00:47:29,110 --> 00:47:32,141

actually idealize if only because.

:

00:47:32,211 --> 00:47:34,705

It's, it's a path that's going

to take energy that I don't

:

00:47:34,705 --> 00:47:36,385

want to expend, honestly.

:

00:47:36,495 --> 00:47:38,495

And I don't believe that

it's available readily.

:

00:47:38,657 --> 00:47:40,137

And I'm on a track that feels good.

:

00:47:40,227 --> 00:47:43,680

And I, I'm cheating, but not in getting

:

00:47:44,570 --> 00:47:46,040

Ben: cheating I

:

00:47:46,110 --> 00:47:46,730

Blakely: you see me in

:

00:47:46,750 --> 00:47:47,660

Ben: back on it like

:

00:47:47,929 --> 00:47:50,421

Blakely: I'm cheating but not in getting

:

00:47:50,581 --> 00:47:52,781

Ben: think the word cheating I

:

00:47:52,851 --> 00:47:53,471

Blakely: you see me in

:

00:47:53,491 --> 00:47:58,511

Ben: back on it like my gut because

it feels like it's upholding some

:

00:47:58,511 --> 00:48:00,930

sort of arbitrary bullshit standard.

:

00:48:01,105 --> 00:48:04,463

this is about wellness, and

this is about caring for

:

00:48:04,463 --> 00:48:05,313

ourselves?

:

00:48:05,511 --> 00:48:05,661

Blakely: saying

:

00:48:05,701 --> 00:48:10,093

Ben: to me it feels like a No, I don't

think you believe it, but I do just wanna

:

00:48:10,601 --> 00:48:15,121

To me it feels like a cultural thing

that's seeped into language rather than

:

00:48:15,121 --> 00:48:17,531

an actual sentiment that you believe.

:

00:48:17,981 --> 00:48:20,211

Like, and that's where

I'm pushing back on it.

:

00:48:20,221 --> 00:48:26,601

Like, the idea that therapy is a

should for us when we have problems

:

00:48:26,601 --> 00:48:33,420

in our life is a part of the I think

the mental health stigma within the

:

00:48:33,420 --> 00:48:39,280

professional helpers in our business

and it becomes this like low hanging

:

00:48:39,290 --> 00:48:45,410

fruit that we can bop each other on the

head with and go, you're not, you're not

:

00:48:45,420 --> 00:48:47,700

doing what you should do, bop, right?

:

00:48:48,070 --> 00:48:54,060

And it, so anyways, no, I think that this,

what you were saying earlier is like.

:

00:48:54,485 --> 00:48:59,595

You you couldn't see the bridge over

the gorge or I don't know, something,

:

00:48:59,605 --> 00:49:03,865

something to that effect, but like,

you know, what's what you need to

:

00:49:03,865 --> 00:49:07,518

get to, but how to get there is hard.

:

00:49:07,907 --> 00:49:12,875

And I think that venturing through those

things together, particularly between

:

00:49:12,875 --> 00:49:15,266

the two of us, throughout the pandemic.

:

00:49:15,919 --> 00:49:18,551

Really helped, it cleared up the fog,

:

00:49:18,592 --> 00:49:19,152

uh

:

00:49:19,561 --> 00:49:26,127

so that the more bridges I crossed over

the big scary, canyons, I was able to see

:

00:49:26,127 --> 00:49:31,725

more that, Oh, this is the same, similar

one I can go do, and so, even in the

:

00:49:31,725 --> 00:49:36,935

future, like even putting therapy off into

the future for things that are deeper and,

:

00:49:36,945 --> 00:49:39,650

and, Harder to conceptualize right now.

:

00:49:40,170 --> 00:49:44,200

I think that you going into the

potential future of therapy without

:

00:49:44,220 --> 00:49:48,800

gaslighting yourself or seeing that

your vulnerability an absolute threat,

:

00:49:49,750 --> 00:49:52,340

that would probably be a lot better.

:

00:49:53,130 --> 00:49:53,810

So,

:

00:49:53,835 --> 00:49:54,154

Blakely: That

:

00:49:54,154 --> 00:50:00,524

I am not in a place to build

a new trusting relationship.

:

00:50:00,728 --> 00:50:01,138

Ben: Yeah.

:

00:50:01,213 --> 00:50:01,903

Blakely: I

:

00:50:02,334 --> 00:50:08,154

I think that's weirdly a succinct way

to put down what I'm kind of feeling.

:

00:50:08,234 --> 00:50:09,954

I am not in a place to trust anyone.

:

00:50:10,175 --> 00:50:10,805

Not anyone new.

:

00:50:10,964 --> 00:50:16,615

I I have a hard bubble and

I would like to get there.

:

00:50:16,635 --> 00:50:17,395

And I think you're

:

00:50:17,705 --> 00:50:18,815

Ben: Because I think what I

:

00:50:18,864 --> 00:50:21,074

Blakely: have a hard bubble and

:

00:50:21,074 --> 00:50:23,664

I would like to get

there And I think you're

:

00:50:23,974 --> 00:50:27,484

Ben: Because I think what I see and I

don't know if you see this or if it's

:

00:50:27,484 --> 00:50:33,259

really even helpful for to keep droning

about this but what I see, what I've

:

00:50:33,264 --> 00:50:39,088

seen for you in the last few years

has yeah, you've, the structure of

:

00:50:39,088 --> 00:50:41,788

the mental health center was let go.

:

00:50:41,946 --> 00:50:45,379

and you know, the permissions

you gave yourself were maybe

:

00:50:45,379 --> 00:50:47,449

a little more impulsive and.

:

00:50:47,578 --> 00:50:49,098

I think you called them hedonistic.

:

00:50:49,517 --> 00:50:56,109

But to me, it was also an exploration of

just permission to explore and to, learn.

:

00:50:56,781 --> 00:51:01,241

I've been talking with you the

whole time and once have I gone Yo

:

00:51:01,510 --> 00:51:05,860

Yeah, and I've, I've been, I've been

talking with you the whole time and

:

00:51:06,110 --> 00:51:09,048

once have I gone Yo you're fucking lost.

:

00:51:09,337 --> 00:51:10,897

I've never thought that.

:

00:51:11,047 --> 00:51:13,668

I have never thought that that

:

00:51:13,887 --> 00:51:14,407

so,

:

00:51:14,487 --> 00:51:19,508

your your passion your compassion,

your love, I've never seen that

:

00:51:19,773 --> 00:51:20,123

Blakely: Good

:

00:51:21,418 --> 00:51:24,258

Ben: I've seen your mood go up and down.

:

00:51:24,608 --> 00:51:27,458

I've seen your motivation go up and down.

:

00:51:27,639 --> 00:51:33,537

I've seen your eyes go, you know, maybe

like red to white, here and there.

:

00:51:33,750 --> 00:51:41,205

But, I've never gone I think I'm losing

my friend, so I think I just want to maybe

:

00:51:41,215 --> 00:51:47,383

offer you a little grace and a little

space to just be, and hopefully with this,

:

00:51:47,783 --> 00:51:49,983

you can offer that to yourself as well.

:

00:51:50,215 --> 00:51:56,689

Cause I, I've, I've, I don't know, yeah,

I trust your North Star, sort of, so.

:

00:51:57,556 --> 00:52:00,536

So we need to, you need to buy this book.

:

00:52:00,786 --> 00:52:06,646

You need to write down where improv shows

are, because I want to go to one, and I'll

:

00:52:06,646 --> 00:52:08,426

invite you to come with me if you'd like.

:

00:52:08,607 --> 00:52:09,137

would be a of

:

00:52:09,342 --> 00:52:10,152

Blakely: we should go.

:

00:52:10,202 --> 00:52:11,022

I should see when

:

00:52:11,046 --> 00:52:15,326

Ben: And also we need to pick a

place to go meditate together,

:

00:52:15,336 --> 00:52:16,196

because that would be a of

:

00:52:16,401 --> 00:52:20,912

Blakely: we should go I see down for

all of that, which funnily enough,

:

00:52:21,242 --> 00:52:26,442

it seems like going to an actual,

like meditative space communally is

:

00:52:26,657 --> 00:52:26,837

Ben: Oh

:

00:52:26,861 --> 00:52:28,841

Blakely: which funnily

enough it seems like

:

00:52:29,107 --> 00:52:29,347

Ben: like

:

00:52:29,642 --> 00:52:32,012

Blakely: um, I'm going to, I'm

going to make an executive decision

:

00:52:32,012 --> 00:52:33,382

that that is our mutual homework.

:

00:52:33,802 --> 00:52:34,902

It's the overlap in our

:

00:52:35,026 --> 00:52:35,356

Ben: yeah.

:

00:52:36,166 --> 00:52:36,406

like

:

00:52:36,701 --> 00:52:38,741

Blakely: um I'm going to I'm

going to make an executive

:

00:52:38,967 --> 00:52:41,117

Ben: Uh

:

00:52:41,171 --> 00:52:43,091

Blakely: overlap in our

Venn diagram of homework

:

00:52:44,285 --> 00:52:46,945

I'm going to a I don't know

:

00:52:46,975 --> 00:52:49,445

Ben: Damn How did I not know that?

:

00:52:49,644 --> 00:52:49,794

Blakely: We

:

00:52:49,794 --> 00:52:52,305

see live comedy pretty regularly

it depends on who's coming to town.

:

00:52:52,785 --> 00:52:53,335

But like, even

:

00:52:54,035 --> 00:52:55,565

Ben: okay so next time

:

00:52:55,705 --> 00:52:56,535

Blakely: stand up when

:

00:52:56,844 --> 00:52:56,894

I

:

00:52:56,894 --> 00:52:58,367

don't know I and flows It

depends on who's coming

:

00:52:58,927 --> 00:53:00,457

Ben: okay so next time

:

00:53:00,597 --> 00:53:01,427

Blakely: stand up when

:

00:53:01,517 --> 00:53:07,747

Ben: We will either talk about our

plans or have, talk about having gone

:

00:53:08,597 --> 00:53:14,067

to meditate and, or an improv show.

:

00:53:15,997 --> 00:53:17,457

Okay, cool.

:

00:53:18,517 --> 00:53:22,733

Oh I remembered that you have,

I have to go to an class.

:

00:53:23,374 --> 00:53:23,574

it.

:

00:53:23,594 --> 00:53:24,234

We'll get it.

:

00:53:24,403 --> 00:53:25,493

Fuck.

:

00:53:25,523 --> 00:53:25,903

Okay.

:

00:53:25,903 --> 00:53:26,113

Yeah.

:

00:53:26,113 --> 00:53:28,013

No, that makes me really uncomfortable.

:

00:53:29,993 --> 00:53:33,023

We'll do it We'll get

joining us We'll go there.

:

00:53:34,403 --> 00:53:34,933

All right.

:

00:53:35,693 --> 00:53:43,883

Well, everyone, thanks for joining

us We, we love that you are voyeurs.

:

00:53:44,503 --> 00:53:46,273

you be a voyeur if you're just listening?

:

00:53:46,839 --> 00:53:48,519

are eave dropping on

:

00:53:48,953 --> 00:53:50,383

auditorial voyeur.

:

00:53:50,454 --> 00:53:51,344

Blakely: it would be like an

:

00:53:51,369 --> 00:53:52,059

Ben: friendship

:

00:53:52,728 --> 00:53:56,088

Uh, we love that you

are eave dropping on our

:

00:53:56,423 --> 00:53:58,403

Blakely: Oh oh it would be like an

:

00:53:58,428 --> 00:54:01,188

Ben: friendship and hopefully

you're learning something.

:

00:54:01,193 --> 00:54:04,248

Hopefully, uh, you're

enjoying yourself and

:

00:54:04,833 --> 00:54:05,533

Blakely: if you dare

:

00:54:05,593 --> 00:54:05,813

Ben: Yes

:

00:54:06,073 --> 00:54:08,164

Blakely: yourself to

some, uncomfy self care

:

00:54:09,039 --> 00:54:12,784

really want to know what

your current self care

:

00:54:12,899 --> 00:54:14,309

Ben: We are LinkedIn

:

00:54:14,524 --> 00:54:15,664

Blakely: us on Instagram at being the

:

00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:17,670

Ben: If on the link LinkedIn folks

:

00:54:17,834 --> 00:54:19,843

Blakely: If you want to give

us a nice long self care

:

00:54:19,958 --> 00:54:21,368

Ben: We are also on LinkedIn

:

00:54:21,583 --> 00:54:22,723

Blakely: us on Instagram at being the

:

00:54:22,954 --> 00:54:23,774

Hey,

:

00:54:23,948 --> 00:54:24,729

Ben: LinkedIn folks

:

00:54:24,893 --> 00:54:25,343

Blakely: If you want to

:

00:54:25,343 --> 00:54:27,473

give us a nice profesh, we can

:

00:54:27,781 --> 00:54:27,901

Ben: us.

:

00:54:27,901 --> 00:54:28,381

know We

:

00:54:28,396 --> 00:54:29,636

Blakely: Tell us how, how you're

:

00:54:29,651 --> 00:54:31,051

Ben: love to hear your stories

:

00:54:31,936 --> 00:54:33,116

Blakely: Oh that's very profesh

:

00:54:33,821 --> 00:54:34,301

Ben: Yeah

:

00:54:34,301 --> 00:54:34,782

Blakely: us how

:

00:54:34,982 --> 00:54:35,312

how you're

:

00:54:35,327 --> 00:54:38,380

Ben: love to hear your stories

We would love to get to know you

:

00:54:38,380 --> 00:54:39,915

as you are getting to know us.

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