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In this re-run episode, I’m chatting with Jordan Lee Dooley where we talk all about clean living, holistic health, and some of the simple changes we can make to take better care of our bodies. Jordan shares what led her to start looking into toxins and clean products, plus some of the first swaps she recommends if you're wanting to make some changes too!!

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Hello friends, believe it or not.

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This is episode four of ever be.

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Speaker 4: I still get giddy every

time I start recording, because this

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is just a really fun dream come true.

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Um, today I have an

amazing guest on the show.

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Her name is Jordan Lee Dooley.

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I'm sure you're a fan already,

but if not, by the end of the

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episode, I know that you will be.

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She is a best-selling author

host of the she podcast.

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And she's a beautiful

Christian wife and mother.

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Who's passionate about

grace based holistic living.

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And I have learned so much about

clean living from her over the years.

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We're going to dive in and learn so

much on today's episode about what

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clean living really is, what are

some really simple, practical ways

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to get started and how not to let the

whole thing be really overwhelming.

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And just as big beast

that you can't tackle.

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It's all about starting small and building

onto it and having a grace based approach.

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So I can't wait.

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Let's get started.

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Speaker: Hey, I'm your host, Mari Wagner,

and you're listening to the ever be

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podcast where faith meets lifestyle.

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I'm so excited.

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You're here.

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Whether you're a new listener

or a long time follower, I know

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there's something here for you.

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Pull up a chair and listen in for

insightful real life conversations

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and actionable steps on how to claim

the Full life God created you for

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if you're a woman desiring to live

a Christ centered life in today's

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modern world, then this is for you.

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Welcome to the ever be podcast.

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Mari Wagner: Jordan, welcome to ever be.

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I'm so excited to chat with you

today and have you on the show.

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I'm sure I've told you this

before, but I'm a big fan.

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I've been following you and listening to

your podcast since I was like in college.

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So it's been beautiful to follow your

story and to be encouraged by your story

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and having you on the show today to share

your wisdom with my audience is a full

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circle moment So thanks for coming on.

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Jordan Dooley: thank you for all

that encouragement and support.

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I'm honestly so thrilled to be here.

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I love all that you're doing.

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So I'm ready to chat and just so

excited to serve your community.

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Mari Wagner: Beautiful.

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So for my followers who may be meeting

you for the first time, can you just

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give us a little bit of your background?

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Maybe like what you do now?

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Jordan Dooley: Yeah, absolutely.

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So now I, in my spare time, I, uh,

when I'm not wrangling, uh, two little

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babies and toddlers running around, I

podcast, I write books, I share a lot

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of, um, really grace based, um, wellness,

holistic living, natural living, Type

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lifestyle stuff on, on social media.

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I love it.

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I say that I talk on the internet.

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Um, and that is really what I do.

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And I love to write.

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I love to speak.

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So that's what I spend

a lot of my time doing.

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I've actually been doing

that for about a decade now.

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It started with an Etsy store, ironically,

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So almost 10 years ago, and it was

really just a Christian Etsy store.

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And I did a lot of hand lettering.

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I did a lot of like scripture, a

lot of, um, I would make like decor.

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I made journals and a lot of things

that I would use, um, hand lettering

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and design for, but it was all

faith based and then that just kind

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of slowly evolved into writing and

storytelling and sharing more online.

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really have just done that for

the last decade, and it's kind

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of followed my own journey.

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It's grown and evolved with me as I've

gone from college student to newlywed to,

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uh, struggling with fertility for years

and being refined by suffering for sure.

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Um, and then now in my, you

know, journey as a, as a mom.

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So.

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It's just kind of grown up with me and

evolved as I've evolved and the Lord's

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just taken me through different seasons.

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But that's what I do now.

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I spend a lot of time on social

media, on my podcast, um, and

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I'm writing my third book.

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So, uh, I have a lot, a lot

of time spent doing that.

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Mari Wagner: Oh, that's beautiful.

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I love the work that you do and,

um, especially love following you

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because you do weave in the Christian

faith into everything you do.

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So it's not just, you know, educational on

clean living and, you know, inspiration,

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but it's also all biblically based

and Christian based, which is the

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inspiration we all need in our life.

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Jordan Dooley: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, that's really kind

of been my bread and butter.

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That was kind of the, the foundation

of what I got when I got started.

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I really, um, I mean, we can probably

all speak to this in our own way,

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but I feel like in college is when

my faith really became my own.

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It was like, I was raised with it

growing up, but it really was something

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that became personal in college.

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And it was like, I was on fire.

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I wanted to share it with people.

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I want to share it with

my sorority sisters.

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I wanted to share it anywhere I could.

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And so that was really cool that at

that time, you know, social media was

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starting to become more of a space.

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I feel like blogging was still

on the newer side and it's now

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turned into a lot of other things.

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podcasting and whatnot.

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But at that time, you know, I was

just like utilizing that as an outlet.

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And it also naturally like

promoted my Etsy store.

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Um, and it's cool the way that I've been

able to, to utilize storytelling and

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also like biblical principles as the

foundation of whatever it is that I'm

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talking about in that season, whether

I'm, you know, in a season where I'm

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sharing a lot of my wellness journey or

a season where I'm sharing my, um, My

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business journey or whatever it might be.

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So it's always kind of

been the foundation.

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I always say a lot of times I think

on online, we tend to try to make

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Christianity or the gospel, um,

like a, a niche, like a genre.

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Like I'm a Christian fill in the blank.

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Right.

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And I feel like.

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The fact of the matter is like, if

you've been transformed by Christ, like

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you're a Christian, everything like

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you're so, so I had to kind of shift

from making it like, uh, if you think

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about like books on a bookshelf, right?

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We often think like, Oh, faith,

family, fitness, like these

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are all categories in our life.

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And

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they're all, if you look at them

as like different books, right?

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All different topics in our life.

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But I think the Lord really

challenged me in my work,

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especially through my journey with.

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Suffering and miscarriage and all the

things that faith isn't necessarily

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like a genre, or it's not a niche.

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It's actually like the bookshelf that

holds up all the other things in our

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life and all the other categories.

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And it just seeps into everything.

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It bleeds into everything.

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It's the foundation of everything.

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And so that's kind of the way

that I try to approach when I

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share, um, anything that I do.

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It's just like, it's all

going to be biblically based.

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It's not like faith is this

like little category of what I

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talk about, if that makes sense.

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Mari Wagner: Yeah.

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totally.

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I love that.

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That's what we do here as well.

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So you'll fit in.

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Great.

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I know that people are going

to love this conversation.

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So let's dive in.

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Let's start real basic.

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Um, at least for me, clean living,

holistic living is still relatively new.

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I started learning about this maybe like

three years ago, but I didn't actually

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start implementing things until now.

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Maybe a year ago, year and a half ago.

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Um, there was a lot of, you know, buzz

happening on Instagram podcasts that

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I was listening to stuff like that.

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And I found it all very interesting,

but at the same time I found it really

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overwhelming and I wasn't really

even sure what it was really where to

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start.

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So let's break it down.

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Let's start real simple.

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What does clean living

really mean or holistic mean?

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What, how would you describe that?

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Jordan Dooley: Yeah.

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So I think those are two different terms

that are often used interchangeably,

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but I think they actually can almost

mean two entirely different things.

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So let's look at clean living

and then let's look at it

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from a holistic perspective.

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So clean living really just

means it doesn't mean like

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cleaning your house all the time.

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Um, it really just means trying to

utilize when it comes to your everyday

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products and the things that you are

putting on and in your body from like a

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food standpoint to a product standpoint.

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It's just trying to choose products

that have slightly better ingredients.

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A lot of our conventional products

Unfortunately, have a lot of questionable,

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potentially harmful ingredients.

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Some known carcinogens, um,

hormone disruptors, things that

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can really impact our body.

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Now, in the tiny microdose that they

might be in, you know, a counter spray,

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if that was the only exposure we had,

probably shouldn't be too concerning.

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But when you consider the fact that a

lot of these types of ingredients are in

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all of our personal care products or the

majority of, uh, personal care products,

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conventional personal care products, as

well as the majority of, um, Household

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products, the majority of, you know,

and then we're exposed to things in our

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environment that we almost can't control.

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There's just so many, um, different

exposures to environmental concerns

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and toxins and things that can

impact our body, our fertility,

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our hormones, our overall health.

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So clean living in a nutshell

is just trying to choose.

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Cleaner products, which is unfortunately

not really a very regulated term.

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So what might be clean to one person

isn't necessarily clean to another.

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So the idea in a nutshell is trying

to choose slightly better ingredients.

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And the reason a lot of these, we can

maybe get into the reason why a lot of

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these conventional products have maybe

concerning ingredients, but the point is.

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It's just trying to make better

choices and being a little bit more

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thoughtful of what are the ingredients

and the products that I'm using on

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a daily basis that I'm exposed to

and the things that I can control.

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Cause there's a lot of things

in our external environments

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that we can't control.

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So what's within my control and

how can I make slightly better

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choices to utilize products with

slightly cleaner ingredients.

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The holistic piece of the conversation,

again, very, very interchangeable, but

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I look at holistic living and holistic

health, not so much, you know, I think a

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lot of times you hear that and you think

like, kind of like woo, woo, you know, um,

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Just like all the hippie to be everything.

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Right.

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And that can be true to a degree,

but I really think, you know, when

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you think about holistic health, and

this is something I really had to,

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I guess, uncover and walk through

personally, because for a while health

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to me was I work out and I eat salads.

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Right.

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And then I was like, wait,

so why are my hormones mess?

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Why am I having, you know,

recurrent miscarriages?

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Why am I having symptomic

acne at age 27 or whatever?

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So it was an interesting kind of shift

for me where it's like health is so much

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more than fitness or lifting weights or

exercising or eating, you know, greens.

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Right.

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But that's kind of what

health culture pushes.

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That's what we see a lot.

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That's at the forefront.

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Um, but holistic health is a.

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holistic, quite literally, like

if you think about it as the whole

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person, body, mind, soul, spirit.

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So I guess the soul soul and spirit are

kind of the same, but if you're thinking

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about mine, your, your mental health,

your emotional health, your physical

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health, and your spiritual health, I

kind of had to realize sometimes some

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of the things we do to pursue health,

um, let's say physically can actually be

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harmful to us emotionally or mentally,

cause we're stressing out about it.

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Right.

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Or some of the things that we

might be doing to like, feel better

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mentally are actually hurting

our physical health or vice.

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So the idea is like holistic health

is actually pursuing wellness in all

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of those areas and taking a more,

I would say like natural approach.

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The way I see it is like, how can I get,

you know, one to 2 percent closer to

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how God originally designed us to live?

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Cause I think in our modern culture of

speed and convenience and quick fixes

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and magic pills and potions and all the

things that we're kind of promoted to or

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sold to all the And that's in our face.

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It's like, we've just gotten so far away

from like the, the, Basic fundamental

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design that God had in the garden, you

know, and so I think holistic health is

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like kind of trying to In the best way

we can in our modern culture without

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stressing or being perfect about it

Leaning a little bit back into wait, what

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did God create and how are we originally

designed to live and how could I maybe?

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Lean into that and try to get a little bit

closer back to that in today's world where

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we're just so far away from it So that's

kind of the way I define those two things

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Mari Wagner: Yeah.

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I love it.

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And I love that you made the

distinction between the two things

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because I think you're right.

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It can be used interchangeably, but

some, someone might be trying to live a

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more cleaner lifestyle, but not really

going down like a holistic health path.

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So today we're going to dive into, you

know, dip our toes into a little bit of

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both because I think both are important.

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Um,

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but what really led you

to go down this path?

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I know you've done so much research,

um, and I've learned so much from you,

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but what really led you to go down

the path of research and implementing

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more of this natural lifestyle?

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Jordan Dooley: Yeah.

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You know, I would say what really

started it, I was kind of curious

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because I had struggling with adult acne.

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I was struggling with like chronic

cystic acne for years and I was

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like, where is this coming from?

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Ironically, if I look back, it was kind

of shortly after I got off birth control.

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I didn't really have a whole lot

of issues with skin or acne prior

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to getting on birth control.

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And then I got on that for like a

very short period of time when I

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first got married because my doctor

told me that was a good idea.

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And

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then after like six to 12 months, I was

like, I don't want to be taking this.

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Um, and that was interestingly

enough when I feel like things

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kind of like had a domino effect.

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So looking back, I'm kind of

curious as to like the role

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that played and it really made

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me rethink a lot of things on that.

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Um, but, and then I've really changed my

view on birth control as a whole since I

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was 22, but that's another conversation.

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Um, all of that said, you

know, that coupled with, I was

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a little bit frustrated with

what was going on with my skin.

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So I was like, Hmm, maybe I

need to start investigating.

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And then I just started having

miscarriages and I was young and healthy.

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And then I just stopped getting

pregnant altogether for a bit there.

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Um, and so it almost didn't make sense.

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You know, a lot of doctors

were like, well, you're young,

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you're healthy, it's a flu.

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And something in my gut was just like,

you know, call it the Holy Spirit.

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I was just like, Hmm, I don't know.

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I don't think so.

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Like this doesn't make sense, you

know, so I started investigating.

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I started working with

integrative doctors.

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I started, um, just really digging deep.

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This was back in 2019, 2020.

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And I feel like that's kind

of when things started.

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People, more and more and more

people were talking about this.

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I don't know if it was coupled with

just what was going on with COVID

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and people wanting to be more health

conscious, but I feel like in the last

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four years, it's become more of a, you

common conversation on social media.

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But at the beginning I was like

digging to try to find information.

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Um, but that was really what

kicked it off was struggling

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with acne and wondering why.

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And I didn't totally dive in at

that point cause it was annoying.

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It was an inconvenience, but it

wasn't totally disrupting my life.

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But then when I started losing babies

and I was walking through heartbreak

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and trying to make sense of what was

going on and also support my body, you

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know, just from a healing perspective.

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from pregnancies and losses standpoint

and try to support my fertility.

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I was like, Whoa, there's a lot of things

that I'm consuming and doing and coming

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in contact with and using every single day

that could be having a negative impact.

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Like, what can I be proactively doing

just in my everyday life, um, to

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better support my body and my body's

ability to support a pregnancy.

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So that was kind of what really

kicked it off about four or

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five years ago.

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Mari Wagner: Yeah,

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no, thank you for sharing that.

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Um, that's tough.

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And unfortunately, I think that a lot

of women can probably relate to that

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more and more now.

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Um, and a lot of them don't really have

answers as to why or don't really know

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what's affecting it or where to start.

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Um, so

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what if, Yeah.

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if someone is, is here listening and

they're kind of at the beginning of this

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journey as well, I know when I was first

starting, I would hear people talk about,

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like you said, like, Like different

things that are affecting our fertility,

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our health, um, our gut, our wellbeing,

and it could be environmental toxins.

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It could be, you know, harmful

toxins in our products.

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It could be the food we're eating.

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Where should someone really start?

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Jordan Dooley: Yeah, I mean, that's

the, that's the big question, right?

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Um, and I think the hard part is as

you start to become more aware, it's

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like, once you know, you can't unknow,

and it's really easy to get sucked into

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trying to control everything and fear and

feeling like you have to fix everything.

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And if you don't fix everything,

you might as well do nothing.

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Right?

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Um, I, and I know I struggle with that.

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So the best thing I can say is I say,

start with your first five swaps.

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Like just make a few healthier swaps

in areas that like, I think about

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the things that you use every single

day or that you're using most often.

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So for example, something I often

recommend starting with her that I

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started with is like deodorant, feminine

care products, those types of things

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that are coming into contact with kind

of intimate areas of your body and

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also in absorbent areas of your body.

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Um, and that you're using often, right.

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Um, and regularly.

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Um, so anyways, I actually have a freebie.

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I don't know if this is helpful.

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I can give you a link to it, but

if you guys want to download it,

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I'll, I'll make sure you guys have

a link for the show notes, but it's

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basically just, here's your first

five swaps that you can consider.

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And here's the ones I would

start with as a woman.

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And also here's kind of the process to

go through swapping in general, because

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I think it can feel like, Oh my gosh,

I have to like overhaul everything.

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When in reality, it's like, start

with the things we're using the

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most, which are most likely going

to be these four or five products

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that I generally recommend starting

with such as deodorant, et cetera.

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Um, And then once you've kind of

found your, you know, lower tox,

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less harmful, um, staple for that,

your switch, your everyday go to,

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then you move on to the next one.

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And I generally say like, it can be

really helpful to start with the things

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like your personal care products.

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So that's kind of where I recommend a

lot of people will say like your laundry

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detergent, there's not like a perfect

or right answer, but I think of like the

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things you're putting on your body every

single day, um, the things that you're,

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you know, even thinking about like.

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The things your food are

coming into contact with.

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So one of the first five swaps I

often say is like maybe eliminating

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like plastic food, storage

containers, things like that.

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So, um, just those, those things that

have, you know, really been linked to,

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you know, how they can affect hormones.

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A lot of them are, but what are

the things that we're using most

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and most often in our lives?

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Let's start with those.

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Mari Wagner: Yeah.

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no, I totally agree.

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I've heard people talk about how you can

start with, um, switching out what you put

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in your body or what you put on your body.

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And I think, you know, both are good, but.

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I think for me it was easier to

start with what I put on my body

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because those are products that I

already know that I use every day.

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Makeup, skincare, you.

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know, shampoo, like stuff that's

literally going on my skin, on

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my body every day.

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And then I moved to cleaning products and

stuff like that and kind of moved from

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like, like my personal bubble and then

to the outer bubbles, like in my home.

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Um, so that, that's great advice.

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Jordan Dooley: If you think of like

your home as like a room by room road

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map, I usually say like start with the

bathroom because that's mostly all the

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stuff you're like washing your hair

with, putting on your body, putting in

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your body, like all that kind of stuff.

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And I agree about the food thing,

but the tricky thing with like what

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you put in your body in terms of

like food, it is tricky because it's

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like you have to then, it's like a

whole different, it's not tricky.

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Not that complicated.

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But I guess my point is when you're

trying to do both at the same time,

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you're like, well, what I put in

my body is, you know, important.

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You can almost feel like you're trying

to learn and do too many things at once.

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That's where it's like just

compartmentalized and it's hard.

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I think as women, cause we want

to like, think about everything.

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Um, and I know I do that even now.

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So it's like, this is the focus for today.

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Let's start with that.

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And then we can actually like, feel

like we accomplished something.

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Cause otherwise you just kind of feel

like you're spinning your wheels, not

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like doing a lot, but not actually

like making a significant impact.

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So

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Mari Wagner: Yeah.

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And that, I mean, that's

what happened to me.

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That's why I was learning about

things for like three years, two and

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a half years and didn't do anything.

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Cause I was like, well, I'm not

ready to change everything, you know?

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And now I just, I

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have a more like smaller approach.

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I have like my, like

three goals for the year.

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Like this is what I'm going to switch.

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And it's so much more doable.

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Um,

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okay.

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What is so bad about the

stuff in our products?

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Like.

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I remember when I first started

learning, I was very skeptical.

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I'm like, what are, what are,

why are these things bad?

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Why is everything all of a sudden bad?

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What are the things in them?

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Maybe, I don't know if You have a few

like ingredients or what their impact is.

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Like, why

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are these things bad?

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Go

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Jordan Dooley: You know, it's, it's

tricky to like nail down in a really

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quick conversation, but it's a really

good, it's a really good question

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because I wondered the same thing.

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I was like, really?

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Like they're being sold on shelves.

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Like, would they really sell stuff

to us if it wasn't, you safe for us.

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But I think the thing I had to remember

is like, you have to follow the dollar.

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You have to follow the money.

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And pretty much everything that

you're trying to figure out is like,

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well, where's, what's driving a lot

of maybe decisions behind quality or

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ingredients or safety or all the things.

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And I don't think it's that any of the

companies or conventional products are

434

like actively trying to harm anyone.

435

It's that these, you know, https: otter.

436

ai

437

They're not actively trying to harm

anyone, but they are actively trying

438

to increase and maximize profit, right?

439

They're a business and

they're a corporation.

440

And so a lot of times, a lot of the

ingredients that end up in products are

441

the ones that are the cheapest and like

the cheapest to mass produce so that

442

you're able to have high inventory, keep

things stocked and also keep costs low.

443

And therefore a product.

444

Profit margin high, right?

445

The, the products that use more

naturally born natural ingredients,

446

or even like there are synthetic.

447

This is the thing I think in

the natural living world that

448

people get really confused by.

449

There are synthetic ingredients

that are not harmful necessarily.

450

So it's not always like it has to be

like you picked up a rock from the

451

earth and stuck it in your makeup

and that's what makes it safe.

452

It's actually like there are synthetic

ingredients that are harmful and there

453

are natural ingredients that went in

certain ways can be harmful depending on

454

how it's processed and all of the things.

455

So when it comes to like what makes

them bad, it's that a lot of times these

456

companies that are prioritizing profit

are choosing lower quality ingredients.

457

Ingredients that like, for example,

parabens is something that is very,

458

like there's, there was actually

recently a study done and I found it

459

really fascinating where when women.

460

Um, switch to their natural or their

personal care products for 30 days,

461

uh, and they just avoided things like

phenols, phthalates, and, um, parabens.

462

Those are three kind of red

flag ingredients to watch for.

463

Um, they saw a significant reduction

in breast cancer gene expression.

464

It's like they measured before

and after that intervention of

465

removing those types of products.

466

So things like that, parabens,

phenols, um, phthalates, uh,

467

undisclosed fragrance, which can

essentially mean fragrances is not bad.

468

Like a product having a smell

is not what makes it bad.

469

It's when there's a blanket term,

like blanket term fragrance, it can

470

mean that there's 3000 ingredients

or potential chemicals that could

471

be used to make that fragrance that

we don't know what they are because

472

they don't spell it out on the label.

473

Cause it would take up way

too much space in the label.

474

So they just put fragrance.

475

Um, and a lot of times that's like,

well, is it, Fragrance made with

476

ingredients that are not going to be

harmful, or is it fragrance made with

477

ingredients that could be harmful?

478

So it's a big question to say what

makes them so bad because every

479

ingredient is so different in the

potential effects that it can have.

480

But a lot of these ingredients,

such as parabens or, um, undisclosed

481

fragrances or things like that, uh,

certain preservatives, which is what

482

a paraben basically is, it can have

endocrine disrupting, uh, effects,

483

which means it's affecting hormones.

484

Some of our, some are known carcinogens or

can be linked to carcinogenic properties.

485

Um, some are allergens and irritants.

486

Like there's just different effects

that these different products have.

487

There's actually a really interesting

website that is specific to beauty, but

488

it's really helpful for kind of educating.

489

It's called the campaign

for safe cosmetics.

490

And it helps kind of break down like, Hey,

here's why this ingredient is concerning.

491

Here's what it typically shows up in.

492

Here's products.

493

You're going to see it in

most likely or most often.

494

Um, so anyway, that's kind of a

helpful, uh, educational resource

495

too, but hopefully that kind of

answers your question in a shell.

496

Cause it's a big question that we'd

have to almost go through every

497

ingredient, but yeah, examples

498

Mari Wagner: I know.

499

Jordan Dooley: parabens.

500

Mari Wagner: feel like

501

Jordan Dooley: Um, I actually

have a cheat sheet too, if

502

that's an, I have another freebie

503

I can, um, that basically is

like, here's kind of the 20 red

504

flag ingredients to watch for.

505

And here's like, I give like a little

blurb of like, here's why it's a red flag.

506

Here's what you might, how it might appear

on a label might show up as like peg

507

dash one or might show up as, you know,

methylparaben or different names that

508

basically mean this is in the paraben

family or this is in the, um, you know,

509

quote unquote like harmful preservative

family that you might want to avoid.

510

So hopefully that's helpful.

511

I'll, I'll, I'll

512

include that too.

513

Mari Wagner: Yeah.

514

It is.

515

It is.

516

And I know we could go into a

whole other episode going into

517

every single one and what are all

the facts and stuff like that.

518

But even just naming those few, I think

519

is helpful.

520

I was going to mention the cheat sheet

because that was helpful for me too, to

521

kind of Like know what some of these are.

522

And I think the biggest one that

you mentioned even to start with,

523

that's easy to remember is fragrance

and that'll start knocking out a lot

524

of the stuff in

525

Jordan Dooley: And that's the thing.

526

Like a lot of those quote unquote

questionable or concerning

527

ingredients are often what are like

part of this synthetic fragrance.

528

Um, so that's where it's like, if you

just kind of watch for anything that just

529

says fragrance and the actual ingredients

and fragrance is not disclosed, it's

530

like, eh, probably better to just avoid

unless they disclose somewhere on their

531

website or later, you know, another part

of their label, what's actually in it.

532

And you can look up what those ingredients

are and how they affect human health.

533

Um, that's just going to be a really

simple way to avoid unnecessary exposure.

534

Mari Wagner: One thing that has been

so refreshing for me on your page,

535

both when it comes to, you know, clean

living and your idea of like simple

536

swaps and starting small or holistic

living, you just have this like grace

537

based approach.

538

I think in the wellness world, it

can get really overwhelming just in

539

general, but also if you're going into

the wellness world with like a health

540

problem that you're actually trying to

address and find answers for, it can

541

be even more overwhelming because you

just see, you know, all these things.

542

That you should be doing all these

supplements that you should be taking all

543

these different types of, you know, eating

regimens and all this, all this different

544

type of advice, but your page has been

refreshing and it's kind of a sense of

545

like rest in peace in the midst of the

noise to be like, yes, you know, there

546

are changes that you can, that you can

make, but it's okay to have a grace based

547

approach and be patient with yourself

and know that it's going to take time.

548

So what does this mean to you?

549

And what can it look like for women

who are wanting to pursue that?

550

Jordan Dooley: yeah, you know, a lot

of people talk about 80 20 like 80

551

percent of what you're doing is good.

552

Then like you can have some

flexibility with 20 percent

553

and I totally agree with that.

554

But I also think, um, something

to remember is if you're, you

555

know, living 100 percent you

know, conventional products.

556

You've not made any changes.

557

You've not even considered any of

this stuff and you've changed or

558

improved 20 percent of what you do.

559

2080 is still great.

560

You know, and that's kind of

the, the heart of, well, behind

561

what I share is like, what this

looks like and the capacity each

562

of us have and the potential.

563

The commitment each person has is

going to vary person to person,

564

situation to situation, budget to

budget, circumstance to circumstance.

565

And so I think that's an important

nuance to the conversation because

566

I think otherwise it just creates

this culture of like shame, of like,

567

well, if you're not doing it all,

you might as well do nothing, right?

568

Or like, if you aren't doing it

all, you're basically doing nothing.

569

That can be the lie we begin to believe.

570

And we can think the handful of

changes or, you know, steps in a

571

healthier direction we try to make is

entirely pointless because we can't

572

change all this other stuff over here.

573

Um, And I know for me personally, I'm kind

of an all or nothing person, especially

574

when I uncover something that is like

eyeopening for me, or I'm passionate

575

about something.

576

And when I was like on this mission

to like fix my fertility and like

577

fix my body and my hormones and

whatever was going on in whatever,

578

in the, in my body internally.

579

I think I just kind of like

went straight into the deep end.

580

And so for at first, I

was very intense with it.

581

And I tend to be somebody who like

reaches for control, and it felt

582

like something I could control.

583

It reminded me a lot of when I was

in college, and this is where I think

584

sometimes it can become a very stressful

and even like an idle, um, a stressful

585

thing and an idol because it reminded

me of when I was in college and I got

586

really into fitness and I started running

and logging miles and nothing wrong

587

with running and logging miles, right?

588

That's like good for our

bodies to an extent, but it

589

kind of became an obsession.

590

I felt like there was a lot of areas

of my life that were spinning out of

591

control or just not in my control.

592

I had walked through a breakup.

593

My grandma passed away.

594

I moved away to college

for the first time.

595

All of that was happening

within the same year.

596

And I just suddenly felt like

there was, Um, like nothing I

597

had really strong control of.

598

And so I think fitness and like

controlling my calories and things

599

like that became a means of control.

600

It started with good intent to like

support my health and it turned

601

into, I'm grasping for control.

602

Flash forward a decade, I was in this

place of, or almost a decade, I was in

603

this place of no longer struggling with

control around fitness and calories

604

and those types of things and body

image, but more like my body isn't

605

functioning how it's supposed to.

606

It's got all this acne, losing babies,

like what the heck is going on?

607

And, and so I think.

608

unknowingly in my pursuit to

try to support my body better.

609

It then tipped from better

stewardship to obsession and idolatry.

610

And so I had to kind of reel it back.

611

And it was really humbling for

me because through my wellness

612

journey, I think I made a lot of, I

mean, I was able to clear my skin.

613

I supported my fertility.

614

I think it only helps my body when I

finally was able to carry a pregnancy

615

to have a lower toxin burden and

have made a lot of these changes.

616

But I had to shift to a more like,

okay, Lord, the Lord, you're in control

617

because, you know, it was really humbling.

618

There was a time where.

619

I kind of came to this realization.

620

I still had to have support from

modern medicine, such as blood

621

thinners and things like that in

my pregnancy to support pregnancy.

622

So that was like one of those

moments where I was like, okay,

623

I think all these healthy changes

have absolutely been beneficial

624

and helpful for various reasons.

625

My skin is showing that like there's

been a ton of benefits and I think

626

it's only helped my fertility.

627

However, This lie that I think the

wellness culture has started to make

628

me believe that you're in control

of your fertility and if you just

629

change all these things and avoid

all of these things, you will fix it.

630

Like, that seeped deep into my brain.

631

And then when I realized, like,

that's not actually the only solution.

632

Like, I still need some

support from modern medicine.

633

Not even that, because modern medicine

isn't always the solution either, it's

634

ultimately that God is sovereign over it.

635

There were so

636

many times in my

637

pregnancy where I had to make, and

in my journey, that I've had to make

638

concessions, or I've not been able to do

things as clean as I would have liked to,

639

or as natural as I would have liked to.

640

My birth, I was, it wasn't

as natural as I would have

641

liked.

642

And it was just like one act

of surrender after another.

643

So it's like, I think when it comes to

wellness and it comes to making swaps

644

and clean living and all these things,

this grace based approach really means

645

like stewardship in the best way you can,

but with a heart posture of surrender

646

because we aren't in control and we

don't get to like, we can make all the

647

swaps in the world and we may not get

the result or the outcome or the fix or

648

the healing that we expect physically.

649

Yes, our bodies are designed to heal.

650

I believe God made our bodies perfectly.

651

But this, this lie that you can heal

yourself if you just eat all the

652

right foods and avoid all the wrong

things and do all this, like, it

653

totally cuts God out of the picture,

even if we do it as Christians.

654

And so that's where it's like,

ultimately I had to come back to, He

655

is sovereign over it all, which means

that I can do the best I can with what

656

I have, where I'm at with my budget

and my time and my life and all that.

657

But if I need to make, like, just

the other night, it was like one

658

of those moments we had to, Order

carry out and it all came hot food

659

and plastic and I was like, ah,

that stresses me out for a second.

660

I had a moment because I try

to avoid eating hot food out of

661

plastic for various reasons.

662

And I was just like, Lord, cover it.

663

Like sometimes you just

have to release it.

664

And that's where it's like, if I tried to

do everything perfectly and didn't make

665

those concessions or those, you know,

not concessions isn't the right word.

666

What's the word?

667

Compromises.

668

Um, where it was like, this

is what we got to do for life.

669

And I got to feed my family.

670

And this is what we had to

do because we were traveling.

671

And you know, it's just like, I

think we can get, so the more we

672

know, the more stress we can get.

673

And it's like our, our intent and

our heart for being better stewards

674

can really quickly turn into

forgetting God or sovereign over

675

the details that we can't control.

676

And so that's kind of where I'm like,

you have to take a grace based approach.

677

You got to do what you can, where

you can and like celebrate the

678

progress and not aim for perfection.

679

Mari Wagner: I love that.

680

That is a beautiful way to view it all.

681

And I think the way that we should

view it as Christians, because

682

in the end, no matter what we do,

like you said, God is sovereign

683

and he's in charge of everything.

684

And

685

this whole thing you're talking about

kind of reminds me of when we look at our

686

life and we feel like if we don't do one

thing, we're going to do something else.

687

The right way, we're going

to mess up God's plan

688

Jordan Dooley: right, right.

689

Mari Wagner: of a sudden we have

all this power to totally screw

690

up what God has in store, which

691

just isn't true.

692

And you know,

693

the Lord, like you said, like he

gave us all these natural things, but

694

he also gave us humans who are very

intelligent and that have made advances

695

in research that, that can also help us.

696

And so in the end, the Lord is guiding,

you know, every single one of our lives

697

and is blessing us.

698

And in the end

699

Jordan Dooley: Well, And the one other

thing that I want to speak to, because I

700

think, and if someone's at the beginning

of their journey or maybe somewhat early

701

on, and you're starting to uncover all

of these things, like parabens can be

702

bad and all this, like kind of what we

talked about, that's why I was like,

703

kind of hesitant to answer your question.

704

Cause I was like, I don't

want to create any fear.

705

But, um, you know, I think as you

uncover like, Oh my gosh, all this

706

stuff is in my products and all

this stuff is in our food and it can

707

like start to be really happening.

708

And you can almost feel it.

709

I'm sure you've heard this phrase

that people kind of nonchalantly say,

710

like, everything's going to kill you.

711

Right.

712

And I think people say that either as a

way to dismiss having to make any like

713

intentional changes like everything's

going to kill you, or it's like, Oh my

714

gosh, everything's going to kill you.

715

And you kind of freak out.

716

Right.

717

It's like one or the other.

718

It's two extremes.

719

And.

720

That's it.

721

I feel like the Lord really challenged

me to remember like, yeah, it is

722

because we live in a fallen world and we

723

live in a world touched

by brokenness and sin.

724

So there will, we could choose the

most perfect products in the world.

725

That doesn't mean we're

going to avoid death.

726

It doesn't mean we're

going to avoid sickness.

727

It doesn't mean we're

going to avoid suffering.

728

It's going to find its way toward

us or to us in one way or another.

729

We will be touched by the, by

the, You know, fall essentially

730

of mankind because we can't escape

that on this side of heaven.

731

And I think sometimes in our

effort to pursue wellness and to

732

be better stewards of our body,

it's like we're longing for Eden.

733

We don't wanna be touched by infertility.

734

We don't wanna be touched by illness.

735

We don't wanna be touched by disease.

736

We don't want our families

to be touched by death.

737

So we like insulate.

738

And it can almost quickly, and that

doesn't mean like we shouldn't do

739

anything, but we, I think, try to do

everything or, or the fear of like, oh

740

my gosh, everything's gonna kill us, or

everything's gonna cause infertility, or

741

everything's gonna mess up our hormones.

742

It's like, yeah.

743

It is.

744

And I think I actually felt more

peace in my journey when I came to

745

accept that, like not from like a

place of like laziness, like, well,

746

everything's going to kill you,

so I'm not going to do anything.

747

But instead from this place of like,

yep, ultimately I'm going to be touched

748

by disease and death and brokenness

and suffering on this side of heaven.

749

So the sooner I can remember that

and make peace with that, the more

750

like freedom I can pursue a wellness

journey from, because it's like,

751

okay, I'm going to do what I can

752

to like mitigate risk and support

my body where I can, but like.

753

I'm not getting out of this thing alive.

754

Last I checked the like death

rate was a hundred percent.

755

So if I can make sure I'm investing in

eternity as much as I'm investing in my

756

product swaps and the things that I'm

doing in my temporal life to support my

757

body, that's, I think the sweet spot.

758

And that's where we're able to do it from

a place of so much more joy and freedom.

759

Mari Wagner: That is so, so good.

760

Snaps, claps all around.

761

I love that.

762

Okay.

763

On the, on the same topic of, you know,

Lord is sovereign of all, and we're

764

going to encounter suffering in this

world, you know, and keeping our eyes on

765

the Lord essentially is what we should

be doing in our life no matter what.

766

So why does this lifestyle really

make sense from a Christian

767

and biblical perspective?

768

You know, how do we see that

this is more than just a trend

769

and it really is something that

we're called to do as Christians?

770

Jordan Dooley: Yeah, I think

that that answer is to part one.

771

It kind of goes back a little bit to what

I said at the beginning about, um, just

772

getting a little bit closer back to, you

know, Like really looking at like, how

773

did God design us to live and how are we

able to get a little bit closer to that?

774

How can we live a little

bit more aligned with that?

775

Be a little bit more mindful of

the things that we reach for use.

776

Um, simultaneously, I think the other

part of the conversation, as much as

777

this can become an idol and a fear

driven thing, and as much as we need

778

to keep a realistic, you know, uh,

surrendered perspective and heart

779

posture toward it, um, The reality is,

you know, I think about my, like my

780

life now as a mom, but this applies to

anything that you're being called to do.

781

I know that the mornings I wake up

from poor sleep, you know, don't eat

782

first thing in the morning and I'm now

hangry and tired and like overwhelmed.

783

I'm not the best me and

I'm short with my family.

784

I'm crabby.

785

I'm like more critical,

you know, things like that.

786

I'm frustrated.

787

Um, And so I realized like when

I feel like crap, just in that

788

like temporal short, like I

eat breakfast and I'm better.

789

Right.

790

But like in that micro example, I

think that's a micro example of a macro

791

reality that when we aren't taking

care of our body, when we're not well

792

rested, when it's, you know, when our

hormones are all a mess, when we aren't

793

nourishing ourselves well, when we

aren't proactively supporting our bodies.

794

And feel kind of like crap.

795

We are, we are not as equipped

to show up for our calling and

796

just steward our calling well.

797

So yes, we don't want to make it an idol.

798

Yes, we want to keep a surrendered heart

posture that God is ultimately sovereign

799

over the things we can't control.

800

But that doesn't mean we neglect it

altogether because if we do that,

801

we're going to feel like crap and

we can't show up for our calling

802

very well when we feel like crap,

we're not going to be very patient.

803

We're not going to be very kind.

804

We're not going to have those fruits of

the spirit as well as we could if our

805

bodies were well supported because our

bodies and our souls are so integral.

806

And I think sometimes as

Christians, we almost like.

807

separate them.

808

Like your body just carries your soul.

809

It's like,

810

okay, true kind of, but also

like they're like inseparable.

811

And so

812

the spiritual element is so impacted

by the physical and vice versa.

813

So I could be in the Bible every single

day, all day and be spiritually nourishing

814

myself, which is the most important thing.

815

However, If I physically feel like

crap, those things are going to be

816

like incongruent and misaligned, right?

817

So, um, I think it's really just

fundamentally coming back to caring for

818

the vessel that God gave you to carry out

your calling on this earth, whether that's

819

to parent children right now, to host a

podcast, to write a book, to show up to a

820

job and, you know, be a light there, like

whatever that looks like in this season,

821

how can you make sure that you're not

just like, Giving your body a bunch of

822

junk that isn't actually fueling it well.

823

And that's actually maybe

creating a lot of imbalance.

824

That's making it harder for you to show

up with patience, kindness, self control,

825

gentleness, humility, all of these

things that we want to, that we want

826

to like exemplify as Christ followers.

827

Right.

828

Um, so it's really just, if you look

at it from that lens, it makes it a

829

lot more, it gives it a little bit

more of an eternal perspective than

830

just, Oh, I just want to clear my skin.

831

Those things are great too, but really

what's the like heart of the matter.

832

Yeah.

833

Mari Wagner: No, that's beautiful.

834

I love that.

835

Uh, we could talk about this forever,

but we're going to have to wrap up soon,

836

but before we go, can you share any sort

of resources or point people to maybe

837

where they can dive in to learn more?

838

Jordan Dooley: Yeah, absolutely.

839

So the two resources I mentioned,

I think are great starting points.

840

They're like just freebies.

841

There's a ton of books and like

podcasts and things, but I almost

842

say like, start really simple

because otherwise it can feel like

843

you're just drowning in information.

844

I think Mari's giving a

ton of great information.

845

So she's a great resource too.

846

Um, but the safes or the first five

swaps guide and my label reading cheat

847

sheet, I would say, So those are going

to be great resources to not only make

848

your first five swaps, but also just to

be able to be a little bit more equipped

849

and empowered with knowledge when you're

at target and you're considering which

850

deodorant to buy or which shampoo to buy.

851

You can just check the back of the label

because I could tell you all the best

852

brands and all the things, but you have to

do it works for your budget and consider

853

what like is most important for you.

854

And also brands change, products change.

855

So it's better to just be able

to say, can I check these things?

856

So those are the two things I would

honestly recommend starting with.

857

If you just want a really simple, like.

858

Where do I even begin?

859

Starting point.

860

You're not ready to have

like a PhD in this stuff.

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Mari Wagner: No, absolutely.

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I agree.

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Start small, less overwhelming, you know,

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small, small goals to do first.

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So thank you, Jordan,

your wealth of knowledge.

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I love everything that you

brought to the table today.

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I know that our listeners are going

to get so much value out of this.

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So where can people learn more

about you and find more of you?

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Jordan Dooley: Yeah.

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So I have a podcast called she, so if

you like this podcast and you listen to

871

podcasts, you might like that as well.

872

Um, and then I'm also on

Instagram at Jordan Lee Dooley.

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So you can follow along my journey there.

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And also a lot of, um, podcast episodes

that are very, I say it's like grace based

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wellness and biblical womanhood is what

we talk about in my show, which I'm sure

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is very similar to what you're doing here.

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Mari Wagner: Yeah, it's great.

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I listen to she a big fan, highly

recommend to go check it out.

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And that's all we've got for today.

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So thanks So.

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much for coming on Jordan.

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Jordan Dooley: Yeah,

thank you for having me.

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It was so fun to chat.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so

much for listening in.

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If you've enjoyed this episode,

please share it with your friends

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and on social media and give me a

five star rating on whatever podcast

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platform you're listening on.

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That helps me and the show out so much.

889

Also make sure to follow the podcast

on Instagram at ever be podcast.

890

And if you want more content like this

and you don't already follow me, you

891

can also follow me on Instagram at Mari.

892

c.

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wagner.

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And may his praise ever be on our lips.

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God bless.