On May 3, hundreds of arts organizations across the US opened their inboxes to an abrupt notice: their NEA grant applications had either been denied or rescinded. Among them, Art21, the New York nonprofit that produces the beloved public television series Art in the Twenty-First Century, lost an $85,000 grant to support the production of seasons 12 and 13.

In today’s episode, host Scott "Sourdough" Power sits down with Lolita Fierro, Director of Development at Art21, to discuss the triumphant premiere of Season 12 (Oct.17), despite executive orders defunding the NEA and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting earlier this year. Together, they unpack the season’s first episode, “Between Worlds,” which features artists whose practices explore the space between the self and the other, reflect on histories of migration, borders, and displacement, incorporate knowledge across disciplines, and create human connections across difference.

Together, Scott and Lolita Unpack…

• The upcoming premiere of Art in the Twenty-First Century, Season 12, on Oct. 17, 2025
• Art21’s new social-first series, IRL, focusing on artists working in both online and offline spaces
• The second biannual film festival in New York, which included premieres, panel discussions, and behind-the-scenes insights
• Why Art21 is an essential educational resource that supports teachers and lifelong learners
• The challenges and rewards of securing support for nonprofit art organizations
• The concept of art as “soul food”—exploring its spiritual and philosophical significance beyond market value and investment 

How You Can Get Involved With Art21

• Watch the trailer for Season 12 of Art in the Twenty-First Century.
• Explore over 600 films with no paywall and global accessibility.
• Register to host an Art21 Screening Society screening event.
• Discover tools for educators.
• Watch Art21.live, an always-on broadcast channel featuring high-quality, hand-selected video programming on contemporary art and artists.
• Support Art21; donations of any size are meaningful.

About Art21 and Lolita Fierro

Art21 is a leading nonprofit organization dedicated to expanding access to contemporary art through documentary films, educational resources, and public programs. With a mission to inspire a more creative and inclusive world, Art21 produces award-winning films that highlight groundbreaking contemporary artists. Its flagship PBS series, Art in the Twenty-First Century, along with digital shorts like "Extended Play" and "New York Close Up," engages millions of viewers worldwide. Art21 also offers free materials and professional development programs for educators and hosts community film screenings globally, making contemporary art accessible to all.

Lolita Fierro, the Director of Development at Art21, plays a vital role in overseeing the organization’s annual operating budget and donor engagement strategies. Under her leadership, Art21 has launched its first gala, revitalized events programming, and strengthened its patron programs to connect supporters with artists and cultural communities. Fierro also spearheads "Art21 for Everyone," the organization’s inaugural capacity-building campaign to enhance operations and expand reach. With a background in graphic design, marketing, and art history from the University of Texas at El Paso, she previously held key roles at ArtTable and the Chinati Foundation, further enriching her expertise in fundraising and arts advocacy.

• Website
• Instagram
• Facebook
• YouTube
• TikTok
• X (Twitter)

Follow NOT REAL ART

• Website
• Instagram
• Facebook
• YouTube

Thanks for listening! Subscribe, share, and support creative culture!

The Not Real Art Podcast is intended.

For creative audiences only.

The Not Real Art Podcast celebrates creativity and creative culture worldwide.

It contains material that is fresh, fun and inspiring and is not suitable for boring old art snobs.

Now let's get started and enjoy the show.

Greetings and salutations, my creative brothers and sisters.

Welcome to Not Real Art, the podcast where we talk to the world's most creative people.

I am your host, Faith Faithful, trusty, loyal, tireless, relentless host Sourdough coming at you from Crew West Studio in Los Angeles.

How are you people?

Thanks for being here.

We love you guys.

We appreciate your loyalty.

We do this for you.

It's all about you.

So I'm so glad you're here with me today because Today we have Art21.

Art21 is in the house.

R21 is the world's leading source to learn directly from the artists of our time.

The mission of R21 is is to educate and expand access to contemporary art through the production of documentary films, resources and public programs.

The vision of Art21 is to inspire a more creative and inclusive world through the works and words of contemporary artists.

You might know the work of art 21 because they've had an incredible series on PBS art in the 21st century and the digital short film series Extended Play.

Maybe You've seen the PBS series Art in the 21st Century, but it's.

It's incredible.

If you haven't, check it out.

But you know, here's the good news.

You can stream all of our 21's films on their website.

If you go to art21.org they have all of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of mini docs, films about artists in their own words.

You can stream it.

It's incredible.

Please go to art21.org and check out all the stuff.

Today though, we have the one and only Lolita Fierro.

Lolita is the Director of development at R21, where she oversees the organization's annual operating budget and leads multifaceted strategies to expand and diversify its donor base.

Under her leadership, R21 has strengthened its fundraising efforts by launching its inaugural gala, revitalizing its events, programming and growing patron groups and travel initiatives that connect supporters with artists and cultural communities worldwide.

She works closely with staff and board to lead Art21 for everyone, the organization's first capacity building campaign designed to strengthen operations and expand programs that bring contemporary art to a wider audience.

Prior to Art 21F held roles at Art Table, where she managed membership and annual giving, and at the Channatti foundation in Marfa, Texas, where she supported fundraising for the capital campaign for a new permanent installation by American artist Robert Irwin.

She holds degrees in graphic design, marketing, and art history from the University of Texas at El Paso and is an alum of Seth Godin's Alt MBA and the New York City Department of Cultural affairs leadership accelerator.

So Lolita Fiero is as good as it gets.

World class human.

So grateful she took time out of her busy schedule to come and talk to me and talk to us about her role at Art21 and her journey there.

And of course, I want to say, if you're wanting to support any arts organization, be sure to check out our 21 and make a tax deductible donation to them today as we look at closing the year here.

So, without further ado, let's get into this fantastic conversation I had today with Art21's own Lolita Fierro.

Lolita Fierro, welcome to Not Real Art.

Hi, Scott.

I am so thrilled you're classing up the joint.

This is amazing.

I've, I, I was so lucky to get to meet you about a year ago when, when I, I got serious about supporting your important work at Art21.

And I've obviously always been a fan of Art21 in the work, but to get to know you and the team a little bit, it's just such, such an honor for me to even be here with you now.

I'm so grateful you took time out of your busy schedule.

Thanks for being here.

I'm very happy to be here and it's an honor.

I'm looking forward to our, to our.

Chat, given your, your background.

I mean, I would have you on the podcast anyway because your background's incredible.

And by the way, fun fact, because I do want to get back to this.

I did not realize that you were a graduate of Seth Godin's Alt mba, so I want to, I want to visit that because that's, I wondered about that.

That's always seemed really cool to me.

But you're at Art21 now.

When did you, when did you join the staff at R21?

Oh, so.

So it's been a minute now.

That's.

It's been a minute.

That's great.

It's been a minute.

Well, it says a lot about my passion for what R21 does.

I first and foremost knew it because of two professors in college at the University of Texas in El Paso.

Kim Bauer and Terry Bauer were both my professors and they introduced me to Art one in Drawing one and Drawing one and Drawing two classes.

It was my entryway into seeing what contemporary artists are doing.

It's been a while, but first and foremost, I'm a fan.

And that's how I got started.

I love it.

I love it.

Well, you know, basically 10 years of being there, I mean, that says so much, obviously, about R21, the culture of the organization, but it also says a lot about you because clearly you have created so much value for the organization.

I mean, you're heading up development now.

Director of development.

I know that's so challenging, and it's more challenging now than ever, but, you know, we'll get into that.

But, I mean, your roots are in the arts.

I mean, you're at the core.

You're an artist.

I think calling myself an artist in the.

In the spectre, the spectrum that R21 operates is hard.

I think I'm an artist at heart.

I think everybody is an artist at heart.

We all have that capability.

It just needs to be nurtured and let out.

But I love art.

I love seeing art.

I love spending time.

Art, you know, seeing.

Seeing art.

Going to museums, to galleries, seeing documentaries and learning more what artists are talking about and thinking about.

But I also love to do art myself, too.

And these are more like my hobbies or my personal things, which are not public at all.

But I think it's still very valid.

I think it's.

How do I stay somewhat sane?

Well, you know what?

Sane, because as I'm listening to you, I'm realizing you and I have a lot in common.

Because people will say to me, oh, oh, so you're an artist.

Like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Certainly not an artist with a capital A, maybe.

An artist with a lowercase A maybe.

Yeah, that's how I feel.

Yeah.

Right, right.

Yes.

And, you know, because you're right, because we're all on the inside.

We're all artists.

And.

And I often tell the story that I heard.

Did you ever read the book Orbiting the Giant hairball by Gordon MacKenzie?

No, but I'll write it down.

Yes, It's a fantastic little book.

It's, you know, not.

Not a big read.

It's a.

A little book.

But Gordon McKenzie was the.

The chief creative officer for Hallmark Cards, and he would go and talk to school kids as a way of kind of giving back.

Right.

And Orbiting the giant hairball, I think, is sort of about how do you re.

How do you kind of hold on to your artistic integrity when you work for the man in some, like, corporation like he did?

Because he was the.

You know, he worked for Hallmark cards, right?

So.

So anyway, so he would go talk to kids, and he said that he always started his talks with the same question, right?

He started his talks with the following question, who here is an artist?

And in kindergarten, every.

Every kid raised their hand, right?

And in first grade, half the class, you know, by third grade, there's, like.

He said, there's, like, one kid in the back basically saying, you know, I'm an artist.

You know, and it sort of, like, goes to your point about, like, when we're young, when we're kids, we know we're artists.

Like, there's no doubt, you know, and.

Then life hits us, and we have to be very serious and pay our bills and.

Anyway, you need a real job, you know?

We need a real job.

My gosh.

Well, I. Yeah, so.

So your love for art and creativity puts you on a journey.

But, I mean, in college, I mean, you studied graphic design and marketing.

Yes, I did.

That was.

That was how I got away with being in the arts.

My mom said, you have to.

You have to make a living.

You cannot.

You cannot just be an artist.

So I said, well, graphic design it is, and let's bundle it with marketing so that I can fully get a job.

I was lucky enough to get a job, and I got started.

My first official job was at the El Paso International Airport.

I was working in the public relations division.

And it was.

It was.

It was a lot of fun.

I made some really amazing friendships, and that are still up to this date.

I got my entryway into being.

I don't know, more into the arts, into the local art scene.

We used to curate a quarterly display called the Art Windows of El Paso that.

That showcase regional artists, many of them painters, sculptors.

And so I got.

I got a chance to work with local institutions, the museum, the Department of Cultural affairs, and local artists to showcase these displays for.

For people.

El Pasoans coming back home or people traveling and seeing the city to showcase the talent that happens there.

So that was my.

My first entryway.

But.

But all throughout school, I paid my work through my way through college by working in office jobs.

I was an admin assistant for all my college years.

And so knowing that I had that asset, that experience, I really wanted to be behind the scenes with an organization working in a museum or an organization supporting artists, knowing also that artists need a little bit of structure and support more in the admin side of things.

And without even knowing that, that there was a field in fundraising or development or how where I could fit in, I discovered development.

There was my I started my career in the arts by applying to an internship that was available at the Gennady Foundation, a museum that was started by Donald Judd in Marfa, Texas.

And I applied, got my first, my entryway into to discovering what fundraising is.

And to my, to my surprise, it has been something that I fully enjoy.

I think I understood fundraising as a way of bringing people closer into the mission of an entity.

And I think to me particularly it was very eye opening to understand, like how can people in Marfa.

And maybe I should give a little bit of context as to, for some of the viewers, the listeners who don't understand or are not fully aware of what Marfa is.

Marfa is this small town of less than 2,000 people in the middle of West Texas, Southwest Texas.

The closest city to get to is three hours east or west, and that is El Paso, three hours west.

Three hours east is Midland.

So it's in the middle of nowhere, but it's an arts destination.

And so I got started there, learned about fundraising angles, membership programs, and to me it was mind boggling that people would pay and send in their hard earned money to support an institution that they don't get to see every, maybe once every year, once every couple of years.

So it really was informative to know that people have very, that art creates these very meaningful moments of understanding and connection and that you want to preserve that you want to be part of, of maintaining that vision from, from one artist.

So that was how I got started.

And I lived in Marfa and worked at the Chanahi foundation for a couple of years.

It was incredibly rewarding as a, as a first way into, into understanding contemporary art.

And it was important to, I don't know, have that experience.

So.

Yeah, well, I mean, that is such an interesting story because development is a very specific kind of set of skills, right?

Like, and, and it's, it's stressful.

It's like sales for non, like profits, right?

Like, like if you, you know, if you're into the for profit space and you're in sales, like sales is a certain kind of personality, right?

Like somebody that's gonna be able to take rejection after rejection after rejection.

You're making it sound great, Scott.

Oh, wait, it gets better.

The, the, you know, and, and so development is like that, right?

So you have to, you know, you have to call you have to build these relationships.

And it's a stressful thing.

I mean, it's, it's not, it's not without.

Is.

It's work.

It's hard work.

Yes.

But I think the word that I would say is persistence.

I think persistence because.

And to be a fundraiser, wherever you are, you really have to be aligned with the mission of what you're, what you're trying to sell, as you mentioned.

And without that, there is no pass.

And I think I'm very fortunate that my team and everyone else at R21 is incredibly dedicated to what R21 does.

And that is first and foremost to elevate the voices of artists.

And so without that, you really couldn't do it anywhere else.

And why we are so persistent, even in the face of we hearing no all the time or no at this time, it just means that it will be later.

And it means that we just need to find ways to bring people closer.

And if it's a no, that I cannot give you money at this time, that is totally fine.

Can you give us your attention?

Can you give us a follow back?

How can you, can you just check out what these amazing artists are talking about and maybe you find ways of bringing these to your community.

Maybe it's a way of hosting a small screening to you with your, with your own class, or it's just really a finding ways to get people in closer.

And that is one of the, one of the angles that we're working towards in this at this time is to how can we really increase the awareness of R21?

How can we make this remarkable asset more well known to our audiences?

And so that's the work that we have been doing.

We are putting a little bit more resources on promotion and marketing.

We are creating.

We have doubled both in staff size, in our budget, our promotions, our output of productions.

We have over 25 productions going on at this time for an amazing number of artists.

Features that we're doing for this year and next year as well.

That's so exciting.

I think that's what you're saying, right?

Like, you know, on a certain level, part of the reason you've been happy and have thrived in this fundraising space is because you, number one, believe in artists and believe in art.

Exactly.

Without that, you can't, you really can't go far and you really can't convince someone to be part of a mission if you don't believe in it yourself.

I think that's the, that would be the first, the main takeaway that I would say to any aspiring fundraiser to just really align with.

With what they're.

What they're messaging about.

Right, right.

Do you remember when you realized that you loved art and remember, like, the moment that you realized, like, I want to.

Want to spend all my time with artists and art, it would have to.

Be when I was a kid, like, exactly from that.

That book that you were referencing earlier.

I think it really wasn't in grade school when I couldn't pinpoint at which time, but I wanted to create as much as possible.

So I don't have one specific example to give you, but I knew that it was from.

From early age.

I really knew that I wanted to just see art and be in the company of artists.

Is there a box at your house filled with your old drawings from when you were eight?

No, thankfully.

It's all.

It's all contemporary stuff.

Right.

We're on the cutting edge now.

We're not looking backwards.

We're exactly from.

From our past.

I. I was talking to somebody the other day about.

About art and the role of art and, you know, because there's been so much said in art trades lately, right.

About the state of the art market at the high end and, you know, what's going on and why.

Why it's, you know, why sales are down, what's happening.

And then I was listening to another arts podcast and, you know, somebody was saying, yeah, I mean, part of the challenge for our world is finding a new story for itself.

And, you know, I thought that was really interesting.

And I also thought.

I mean, part of the reason why I thought it was interesting was because I feel like the people that are struggling with.

That are struggling with it because they're.

They kind of have only embrace one narrative around art, which might be about, you know, art is a collectible.

It will appreciate.

You will eventually be able to sell it, maybe make money on that collectible.

It's a luxury item for me.

Art has always been and I think will always be a spiritual investment more than a financial investment.

I mean, it's.

I don't buy art for.

In hopes that it will appreciate.

I mean, in my assessment, art is a horrible financial investment.

You know, I buy art that I love to look at, that moves me, that makes me think it feeds my soul.

Art is soul food.

Yes.

A hundred percent.

This is there.

The alignment should be that.

It just.

It's first and foremost is about feeding the soul.

Exactly.

That's.

You couldn't have said it better.

I.

It's.

It's.

Yes, it can be There is a market and influences associated with it.

But in reality, you want to live with something that makes you think, that makes you wonder, that gives you.

Sheds a little bit of light into areas of life or our existence.

It helps us understand our place in the world and the time that we are living in this world.

So I think it's.

The market comes and goes and it will continue to exist.

Artists need representation, they need shows, and it's part of what helps the art world continue to stay afloat.

But that is one angle.

I think it's maintaining creativity in our inner artistic voice alive.

100 100.

The market comes and goes.

Things, things ebb and flow, but also things evolve.

I mean there is no constant except change.

And, and that's, you know, and we welcome.

Artists are change agents right at the end of the day.

And so lean into the change, lean into.

And you know, artists aren't freaking out necessarily.

Like they're, they're still starving, they're still broke.

It doesn't matter what the high end of the art market's doing.

You know, they're, they're.

They need to make work and tell their stories.

For those few people listening, and I mean you, because I'm going to give our audience the benefit of the doubt.

But for those few people that may not know much about arc21, take us back to the origin story of R21 and the evolution of R21 and where we're at today.

Of course.

Well, thank you for asking that.

I'm, I'm happy to take your listeners through kind of like a little bit of, of the history of what R21 is that I think R21, first and foremost platform, the leading source to learn directly from the artists of our time.

And first and foremost, her vision was to make the voices of artists as accessible as possible.

And the first entryway into doing so was through developing art in the 21st century, which is our longest running series in partnership with PBS.

Now we're about to premiere season 12 we've been running for nearly 25 years, which is pretty outstanding for the organization.

Yes, but, but yeah, so we were, we were with the intention to showcase artists without intermediary, fully trusting that artists are the, the most able to speak to an audience and that audiences themselves can understand without having someone interpret it for them to tell you what to think or how to translate what the artist is doing.

It's just.

Let's hear the artist speak.

And so the films themselves have become educational tools not just for classroom setting and for educators to use them and to bring artists to.

Into their classrooms.

That is something incredibly important, but it's also so that everybody can understand what artists are talking about and what they're addressing through their work.

Whether it's like political, social, economic, or social justice issues.

What is it that is affecting our world in our.

In our current moment?

So with that, the films are the basis of everything that we do.

Education is first and foremost part of our mission.

We want to bring a robust program of educational resources.

We have resources, professional development programs and training for educators who come and get developed into learning curriculum, learning how to present what artists are saying.

They.

We are offered guides with prompts to.

To facilitate conversation depending on the themes that the artists are talking about.

So it really is for all ages to understand what, what artists are doing.

That is fantastic.

I mean, what a, what a, what a journey and what a visionary your founder was.

She really was.

And we're, we're very honored to continue to work, to continue to further her legacy.

She, she, she set a really strong foundation to present artists as role models for this generation and for future generations.

And because of that vision, we have documented now over 300 artists, contemporary artists.

We are the really like the leading source of seeing primary source and primary content from artists.

We have over 600 films on our catalog.

And what's most remarkable is that R21 is accessible all around the globe 24,7.

And without any paywalls, all of this content and this, this high caliber of artist interviews and artist insights can be accessible anywhere.

I think you would have.

We have over 80 hours of film fully available and it would take you, I don't know, like a whole week to watch.

Talk about.

Yes, yes.

What I would say though is that it really is.

Even if you've seen a film come up, just.

Artists are so magnificent and the worlds that they opened through their artworks and through their practice that even if you repeat or come through a film, I recommend you watch it again.

Because even me that I've been working for such a long time in the organization, there are always little nuggets that reveal themselves after a couple of times.

And we are in different times in our lives.

So I encourage everybody to come in and check out this really incredible resource.

It's incredibly nutritious, isn't it?

I mean, you know, rich and nutritious content.

And I mean, I hear you because I mean, I have only scratched the surface, you know, watching Your films, maybe I've watched, I don't know, three dozen or something.

But it, there's, it's so dense, rich and substantive and nutritious and you're like, oh, I want to watch that again.

You know, and then, and then when you do, you, you learn something else, you catch something or it's like, oh, wow, I didn't notice that before.

Well, you know, I have to give a lot of kudos to the production team.

They have been, we have three amazing in house producers.

Two of them have worked for a very long time at the organization.

Nick Ravitch, our director of production, and Ian Forster, our senior producer.

They have, they understand and build a trust and a relationship with the artists themselves.

That even seeing them at work in the small moments where I've seen them approach artists, it's in such a delicate and very thoughtful approach, obviously, because they've been with R21 for so long, but they understand what it is to let the artist lead and we collaborate with them.

And what has also been really beautiful.

And artists have said that, said this themselves, that by seeing their own work, by working with R21 and seeing the production, they've been able to see other areas of themselves that they had never seen before, both of themselves and of their practice.

So that is the power of wet film and what R21 can do.

So, yeah, I think it's now a whole generation of artists has been influenced by seeing what other artists are doing.

So it has become kind of like a, A full circle.

Yeah, I love that.

I love that.

You know, you have this challenge, this opportunity to create a space for artists to tell their stories in the most authentic way.

Right.

True to them with integrity.

Right.

And yet to do that, right, you have to bring in these other artists called directors, videographers, cinematographers, producers who are also artists.

And there's this like, reconciliation, right, of like, okay, yes, we're artists as storytellers, as filmmakers, and our job is to create a film that best shines a light on this artist and their story.

Right.

And the reconciliation of those art forms has got to be very, you know, sometimes challenging, sometimes easy, sometimes difficult.

I mean, talk a little bit about that over the years because of course, artists can be quite particular, right, about their stories and wanting to make sure that they're told in a certain kind of way.

Obviously, artists 21 does a fabulous job of doing that, but I'm sure it can certainly a time consuming, laborious process of kind of reconciling these, you know, these realities.

Talk a little bit about that and how R21 does it so well, I.

Will try to answer it, but I think it's part of the, really, the special sauce and the magic that the producers bring to this, to this team.

They're the ones that work really collaboratively with the artist and as you said, we work with directors and cinematographers and people that help us put together these films.

And I think they are really good at pairing our in house producers are really good at pairing the level, the talent that is driving the filmmaking with the background of the artist.

What kind of magic sauce that is?

I think that that is the.

They would have to come onto your podcast and tell you exactly how it is that they do it, but really I think it's their visionaries and I would, I would say that that is true for many of my teammates.

They're.

They're really visionaries and seeing how you can put these two pieces together, they have done so very thoughtfully and really in many times it's really like finding alignment both in kind of like the background of, of the filmmaker with the background of the artist.

Maybe if it's, it's even like language barriers.

Geographically, it all has to be taken on a film by film basis.

So it's not a, it's not necessarily a straightforward answer.

I think it's just really like a lot of talent.

Yes, yes, yes.

The T word.

You gotta have the, you gotta have talent and a lot of it.

Well, part of this, right, is I'm guessing, possible because our 21 films to me feel like the, the artists making the films and certainly the artists in the films, you know, have time to, to tell their story.

Like this is.

You're not cranking these films out in a month or six months.

I mean, you know, clearly I'm guessing these films take months and months and months, if not years to make.

Sometimes.

Talk about a little bit like the average timeline for one of your films.

I mean, is it six months, a year, two years?

Yeah, that's a great question and I think I would, I would have to.

Let me tell you how I can start answering that right now.

We are producing, as I mentioned, so many more films that we've ever had before.

We have our three series, Art in the 21st Century, which is our longest running series.

We have extended play and New York Close UP, which are two digital series that we produce and distribute ourselves through our 21.org and YouTube and across our social channels.

Right now we're in the moment of producing on a regular basis and distributing on a Regular basis as well.

But that was not always the case.

Tina, I want to come back and tell you more about Tina Kukowski, who's our executive director and chief curator.

She joined the Oregon.

Yes, Tina.

You know her, she's awesome.

She really is.

It was really art in the 21st century, which was the series that is produced on a biennial basis.

And that was really the one series that had its very own cadence, produced over two years.

And so we were on television with our three episodes every other year.

As she came through with her vision, with understanding the two other productions that are also in the works, she identified that we really needed to have more of an overview into programming and distribution.

It really has set us up into a place where productions are ongoing and we release a new film, I'm going to say, roughly every month.

And that was not always the case.

So there's always new productions happening and it's incredible.

And you know, I'm guessing right over time you become more and more efficient as well, right?

In terms of how you're able to produce and produce not just on time, but on budget and hopefully at a schedule and under budget.

Exactly.

That's always the challenge.

Speaking of like dropping new films on a monthly basis, I. I do have to say that this morning I went on the website for the first time in a couple of weeks and I watched the Chris Ware video.

And you know, I don't know if you know this, but I grew up outside Chicago.

I mean, Chicago is my, you know, town, I think.

And, and so I just, I saw Chicago.

I'm like, okay, I gotta watch this.

And what a lovely, lovely man, number one.

And his art is just wonderful.

And he reminds me of so many kind of Chicago based, shall we say, you know, commercial artists, AKA illustrators.

He's a cartoonist and he's an artist with a capital A.

Let's not get.

Let's not get this twisted.

But he just was.

He just reminded me of so many people I've known over the years.

But wow, what a beautiful a.

A love letter to him and his art, but also love letter to Chicago.

I mean, it was a.

It really.

It was a beautiful film to watch.

Well, you are.

Should know that there's a whole episode on Chicago Artist.

I'll be sure so Chris Ware is part of our season.

I'm gonna say season eight of art in the 21st century.

And he's featured alongside Nick Cave and Theaster Gates.

And I am gonna say Barbara Caston.

Okay.

Those are all names that I'm.

That I know.

Yes, yes.

So anyway, there's four artists in total in Chris Ware is.

Is included in that.

So.

Yeah, that there's three other artists that you need to check out.

Okay.

Sweet Home Chicago in the house.

I love it.

Yes.

So that was.

That's also another angle for what R21 does, is that these films are evergreen.

Just like whatever.

Whatever is coming out.

They.

They.

And we bring them up time and again, whether it's through some type of exhibition that the artist is doing or maybe there's like some kind of project that leans to whatever R21 documented at that point.

But the R21 library is pretty much like always alive.

And so a lot of what you'll see on our social includes both our new releases as well as a look back into the R21 catalog for other films and little snippets of our productions so that you find new entryways.

Not everybody has seen everything and we don't expect everyone to see that, but that way you have new entry points.

Is there a medal for me if I actually watch them all?

Like, do I get like a merit badge?

We need to talk.

Yes.

Okay.

I want my Art 21 badge.

We might quiz you.

Oh, there's a test.

Of course there's a test.

Well, okay, we'll talk about that later.

But you, but you.

You sort of touched on something a minute ago that I want to be sure that I, that I point out because this is such an amazing feature to the website.

But you, You.

You referenced this earlier.

But people can stream.

You have your own streaming platform.

You can.

People can stream all the films 247 for free from the website.

It's incredible.

You just click stream or whatever it says on the website and.

Or watch.

I guess it says watch better than stream.

And it's lovely.

It's incredible.

When did you guys turn that on?

We've.

I mean, this iteration of the website has about 10 years.

Okay.

And we were just talking about maybe potentially doing some update upgrades.

So that might be coming in the next couple of years.

Yeah.

Do you can.

Do you care to give us an inside tip about some exciting upgrade that we might see?

Not yet.

I think it's more the behind the scenes things to make sure that the site works functionality wise.

Okay.

Boring stuff.

I Got it.

Boring stuff.

Boring stuff.

But you know, in reality it's never, it's never boring.

It's boring stuff.

That is so important.

Right.

Because we want people to be able to engage and have a wonderful experience.

Right?

UX wise.

Exactly.

I think what I do want to point you and your listeners is to this, this feature on the website that's called Explore.

So if you go into r21.org, you'll see five big tabs at the start.

Watch, read.

Explore is down in the middle.

It is one of my favorite places to go.

And it's a really great entryway for educators, but really for anybody that is looking into an entry point, into what R21 does and how do you even tackle this amazing library?

So it's sorted by themes, by mediums and narratives.

So if are really curious about painters or you really want to lean into video artists or artists who are delving with sports or pop culture or feminist artists, I think there are all these entryways and not only does it show you the videos and the artists themselves, but sometimes there are articles on the website by our educators or you know, just other artists interviews.

So there's like, like we, we, we are thoughtful in what is presented so that audiences have the best way to contend with the material.

Yeah, for sure.

No, that's, that's wonderful.

I have a question for you though.

I'm going to put you on the spot because I was actually surprised and shocked that something that I love, that I fully expected to find on the website, I did not find.

And unless I missed it, I'm sad.

I'm very sad.

Lolita.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

Okay.

So, so, so you should, you should, you should, you know, you gotta help me not be sad.

But I was sort of shocked and surprised that I couldn't find a podcast.

Where is the Art21 podcast?

We gotta make a podcast.

You need to tell us all your insights into how to go about.

That's a really great point.

I think.

You're not the first one to mention it.

And it's, it's food for thought, food for our next strateg, food for what to do next.

I do, I do know that our producers are thinking right now on what a new series could look like for it.

And so there, there, there are more things that are happening.

But thank you for noting that.

Well, I'm laughing in part because of course I know that I'm not saying anything you guys haven't already thought of a hundred times, but, but you, but the reality is right like, there's no shortage of things that we should be doing, want to be doing good ideas that we excited about.

But, but we have to, we have to make hard choices, right?

Like, there's only so much time, only so much money.

We have to prioritize.

And those must be some of the most difficult kinds of discussions right within, within the organizations.

Like, do, do we go left?

Do we go right?

Do we do this, do we do that?

That's, that's got to be very.

I'd like to be a fly on the wall in those meetings.

There is, there is certainly not a lack of ideas and interest and hopes and dreams for what R21 gets to do.

But maybe I can tell you what we're already doing.

Yes, yes.

We already have a lot going on in this fall and through the rest of next year.

So I do want to tell you what, what people can expect from R21, which is a lot.

So maybe you'll understand why we don't have a podcast yet.

We're going to get a.

Okay, I want a drum roll.

Can we get a drum roll, please?

This is breaking news.

I am so excited to hear what's coming up.

Please.

What's coming coming up?

So season 12 of Art in the 21st Century is about to premiere.

Three episodes.

The first one is called Between Worlds and it features artists that are working between cultures and fictions, migrations and highlights four amazing artists.

Tuan Andrun Wen, Sophie Kael Diani, White Hawk, and Lubaina Hamid.

This one, this is the first episode, comes out this October.

The second episode is called Realms of the Real.

And this one explores how artists push everyday materials and historical truths into the fantastical and the sublime.

These are four other really incredible, talented artists.

Candice Lynn, Ragnar Kurtja Angelica Akunyuli Crosby and Tomas Areseno.

And that one comes out next spring.

So we're thinking maybe around late February, early March.

And the last episode is called Human Nature.

And this one, it really is about what the name says.

It's about exploring what it means to be human.

Looking at our collective responsibilities and our environments features this really powerhouse of artists.

Some of my favorite artists are here.

Josh Klein, Inka Clayton Waikan, and Delsey Morelos.

And so we're very excited to be releasing, releasing this new.

These new set of of episodes will be paired with education guides and will be paired also with our Screening Society program which presents the episodes and facilitates institutional partnerships so that they can host screenings of their own fully for free.

R21 provides the screening materials and the films themselves and we only ask that our hosts can host this for free just to help us spread the word and create programming in their own audiences.

So that's what's coming most immediately.

We also have in next week in New York City, we will be hosting our second biannual film festival.

It's a quasi film festival, that's how we call it.

It's held over two days in New York City.

The first night is an opening night at Metrograph in the Lower east side.

This will be a premiere where we really showcase and celebrate the artists that are part of season 12 and gives a celebration and a nod to what's happening on the full day of programming.

Happening Friday, October 10th at MOMA Film Center.

And for this time we have a programming block of five screenings.

One of them includes our executive director, Chief Curator Tina Kukowski, in conversation with two filmmakers, Penny Lane and Matt Wolf.

They will be in conversation about filmmaking and documenting artists and maybe somewhat, maybe a little bit more difficult subjects.

There will be a program and a panel with Thelma golden and the artist Lubeini Hemid, who's also featured in the upcoming season and who will be an artist representing the UK in the Venice Biennale next year.

We also have a full screening of the premiere of Between Worlds and also showcasing one of the film features by Sophie Kal, no Double Blind, no Sex Tonight that will be closing out the program.

So it's a really exciting celebration of artists and R21 documentaries and artist documentaries on the big screen.

So that's coming up in just a week and and I'm also going to share that maybe another drum roll moment is that R21 just announced that just last week that we will be running a new we're releasing a new series entitled IRL.

This is the first time that R21 produces and distributes a social first series.

So as you mentioned, we have, you know, our documentaries, everything that's available on R21 but across our social channels that's a way of getting and tapping into new aud.

So we are very excited to be releasing new social first documentaries and introducing eight new artists into into the world.

The artists that we're we're featuring are all working in the digital sphere, both in the IRL in real life as well as the URL and digital.

Love that name.

It's so great.

It's so cool.

Yeah, it's a lot of fun.

So you can expect to see that starting November across our social channels.

It will be releasing on tikt and post it across our socials as well.

So I'm excited.

We're very excited to be doing this and to give entryways into so people can understand and find our 21 as we all consume media in this new time of multi screens, multi platforms.

It's crazy and you guys are rising to the challenge in so many beautiful ways.

That's so cool.

I mean, thank you so much for sharing that because that's so exciting and gives us things to look forward to.

I do have one small favorite ask, of course, because I know you said that the Quasi Film festival is next week, but the.

But the problem is I'm not going to be in New York until October 14th.

So can we just move it?

Can we just move the film festival like just a couple of weeks?

Let me send a quick email.

Yeah, it's easy.

Just.

Just move it.

Well, that's so exciting.

Wow, wow, wow, wow.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry you won't be in the city then.

Unless you can change it for a week.

Well, and I missed you in la.

You were just in la.

We were just in la.

We partnered with Red Cat in LA to celebrate the exhibition of an amazing artist, Guadalupe Maravilla, who just opened a show there and he was in conversation with, with the curator and the dean of KAL Arts to talk more about the his exhibition.

And we screened our film there and it was really, really amazing and a very timely, important work, just because of everything that's happening in LA with the immigrant community and to really showcase how to stay in resistance with what's happening around this.

So it's really poignant work.

I invite people to check out this film with Guadalupe Maravilla and his project Mariposa Relampago, which is a really beautiful story.

Yeah, no, I was really sad that I was out of town and not able to join you there.

It was a good turnout.

You felt really good about the outcome.

It was an amazing turnout.

People were showing up both for the talk and the screening, but also sticking around to see the show and to talk to Guadalupe.

It was really well attended.

Sorry.

Yeah, me too.

Well, you guys, I mean, R21 is doing more in LA, right?

Like you're coming.

I mean, over the last few years you've been.

And I don't know, maybe you've always been in la, but it feels like you Know, you guys are out here a lot more now, which is wonderful.

We're trying to do that because R21 is first and foremost a digital first organization.

We are don't have a physical space unlike museums and other institutions and that are able to welcome visitors and people into the world.

So we have to show up and find partnerships and find ways to bring our community together and to show ourselves IRL as well.

That's what you're seeing more and more of that.

We really want to be where people are.

Yeah, that's fantastic, Lolita.

I mean, you have such an important role at R21 as Director of development.

In the best of times, you know, your work is challenging and stressful.

As we know, these are not the best of times for arts organization organizations.

Lots of cuts from federal funds and grants and what have you.

And that's going to be felt across all kinds of philanthropic organizations, non nonprofit art arts organizations.

And then you have this phenomena happening with boomers transferring about $74 trillion of wealth to their children and grandchildren over the next many years, and concerns that the children of boomers may not be as generous as their boomer parents.

You know, as a professional development officer, how are you thinking about this challenge moving forward?

I mean, obviously R21 has this incredible legacy, incredible heritage, you know, incredibility, you know, to pull from, and you have, you know, an amazing support group of patrons and what have you.

But.

But certainly moving forward, there's going to be a lot of challenges and, and the pressure is real.

So how are you going to adjust in this new environment?

Well, thank you for asking that.

I think it's.

I appreciate you knowing the uncertainty that is happening in the arts at this time.

I think the way that I am approaching this is that this is not the first time that we have been here.

This has happened before and the arts continue to endure.

We just have to really stay focused on it.

I like to maintain a positive attitude.

I think just knowing that uncertainty is a constant, but I don't know, I think it really is about connecting and bringing people in closer.

I think as people understand and see the value in what our does and that means what artists are doing, they understand that it's important to protect this type of resource.

So it's not without trial and error.

And it's not without, like you said, a lot of rejection, but it means that people are stepping up to support their own local entities or their own where they see that's most lacking.

It is a lot of work that we have to brace ourselves for.

But I'm fortunate, and we are fortunate that we have a really amazing philanthropic community that is stepping up to preserve R21.

So I'm really grateful for all of our supporters in that end.

And yeah, I think in this light, there's like, in terms of federal funding and all of those cuts, private philanthropy needs to step up.

And so we're having a lot of really real conversations with our supporters where it is that we need to continue to elevate and sustain for the near future.

I think it's more like, wish us good luck.

Wish us, all of us in the arts will need a lot of luck and a lot of support.

And in the end, it really is about every single bit counts.

And that couldn't be more true.

It's not about any major special gifts, although they're, of course, really important and make a difference, but it's really about all of us stepping in and continuing to support the organizations that need to be supported.

Oh, that's so true.

So true.

Well, you know, for our audience who are listening, who are inspired and want to support Arc21 and the important work that you do, please tell us how our listeners can support.

Support R21.

You know, what are the various ways, programs, campaigns, you know, that people can support your work?

Thank you so much.

Well, Scott, I think the.

The easiest way is to go to r21.orggive or just r21.org and go to the far right corner and click donate.

Any amount really helps.

I would encourage people and listeners that support R21 that love R21 to donate even $5 or $10 a month.

That makes a huge difference.

It's like really maintaining a constant influx of support and contributions that keep us help our productions, our overhead costs, our very modest type of infrastructure that we have to continue to do what we do.

So I invite everybody to donate, and really, every single dollar counts and makes a difference.

So thank you.

Oh, for sure.

Well, you heard it here, people.

Get.

Get your wallets out, go go online and support this amazing organization and their incredible work.

Art 21.

I know you guys have.

I mean, you inspired me, and.

And I just learn a lot, you know, from watching your films.

And I mean, these artists are just.

I mean, they're.

They're angels among us, right?

Like, and some might be devils among us.

We love all the artists as long as they make us feel something and think something and they move us.

Right?

And so I know, I'm incredibly grateful as an art lover, as a storyteller, as a podcaster.

I mean, just, you know, being able to go to, go to R21 and watch these films that are so thoughtfully and elegantly and professionally obviously crafted and to honor these artists and their work, it's.

Thank you.

Thank, thank you so much for being a fan and for, for being so supportive of ours and for wanting to check out the full catalog to become.

I want my merit badge to get a merit badge.

We, we love our, our fans, our supporters.

And every time that, that a viewer reaches out to say how much they love it, it means the world to us because it keeps us motivated to know that someone, no matter where they are, they have been touched by these films and, and by what the artists are saying, what they're doing.

So it really means a lot.

Wonderful.

Wonderful.

Well, Lolita Fiero, I am so grateful that you came on the show today.

Thank you.

And you classed us up and took time out of your busy, busy schedule to share this important story with us.

And I want you to know, my friend, you have a open tour policy.

You are always welcome to come back.

You just let me know if there's something exciting, something new, something breaking news that, that you want to get out into the world.

On behalf of R21, you're always welcome here.

Thank you so much, Scott.

It means, means a lot to be here with you and to share what R21 has been doing.

And so thank you.

Maybe I'll take you up on, on a second interview.

I hope you do.

I, I And by the way, hey, shout out to your colleague Jerrell, who did a fabulous job.

I mean, he made me look so good the other day when we did our little online workshop for Fractured Atlas, he was phenomenal.

We had three incredible VIPs.

He was top of the list.

And so shout out to Jerrel for, for supporting that project.

That's it.

I'm so glad.

Happy to hear.

I know.

I knew you'd be in perfect hands with Jerrel.

He is so talented.

He's an incredible, you know, teammate.

He is our associate curator and he's just incredibly fantastic.

I don't know if he told you about the book that he edited for R21, but at the start of this year, he released a book for R21 called Artisan the Unknown, and it showcases 18 artists from the R21 catalog that are delving into the unknowability and uncertainty and what is more pressing than that, than in our times, than that.

So he really is fantastic and he's part of our curatorial team and, and we're very lucky to have him.

So I'm.

I'm very happy, not surprised that you were so taken by him.

Yes.

No, he's.

He's a pro and a world class human.

And so, yes, it was.

It was a delight.

And I'm very grateful that he.

That he.

That.

That you introduced us because you connected us.

So that was, you know, thank you for that.

Lolita.

Of course.

Yours.

All right, my friend.

Well, you have more important things to do.

I wanted you to.

I want you to go.

Be free.

Have a beautiful day and come back anytime.

Okay, we'll do.

Thanks so much, Scott.

Talk soon.

Thanks for listening to the Not Real Art podcast.

Please make sure to like this episode, write a review, and share with your friends on Social.

Also, remember to subscribe so you get all of our new episodes.

Not Relart is produced by Crew west studios in Los Angeles.

Our theme music was created by Ricky Peugeot and Desi Delauro from the band parlor Social.

Not Real Art is created by.

We edit podcasts and hosted by Captivate.

Thanks again for listening to Not Real Art.

We'll be back soon with another inspiring episode celebrating creative culture and the artists who make it.

Greetings and salutations, my creative brothers and sisters.

Welcome to Not Real Art, the podcast where we talk to the world's most creative people.

I am your host, faithful, trusty, loyal, tireless host.

Host Sourdough coming at you from Crew west studio in Los Angeles.

How are you people?

Thanks for being here.

We love you guys, so appreciate your loyalty, man.

Do we have a show for you today.

Not sure if You've heard of Art21, but if you haven't, you're about to.

Art21.org is an incredible organization out of New York City who creates incredible documentaries about artists.

And you can stream all of their videos on their website, art21.org I so encourage you to do it.

You might have seen their show on PBS, Art in the 21st Century.

It's been on for a long time.

They've been around about 30 years.

And we have their director of development, the one and only Lolita Fiero with us here today to talk about her work at Art21 and the work of Art21 Generally, the important work that they do.

And I can't wait to get into this conversation with Lolita.

It is a wonderful chat.

She's such a great human in arc 21 is such an amazing organization and so I'm so excited to get into this conversation and you know a little bit about Lolita.

Lolita Fierro is the Director of Development at Arc21, where she oversees the organization's annual operating budget and leads multifaceted strategies to expand and diversify its donor base.

Under her leadership, Art21 has strengthened its fundraising efforts by launching its inaugural gala, revitalizing its events, programming, and growing patron groups and travel initiatives that connect supporters with artists and cultural communities worldwide.

She works closely with staff and board to lead Art21 for everyone, the organization's first capacity building campaign designed to strengthen operations and expand programs that bring contemporary art to a wider audience audience prior to Art 21, fo held roles at Art Table, where she managed membership and annual giving, and at the Chinatti foundation in Marfa, Texas, where she supported fundraising for the capital campaign for a new permanent installation by American artist Robert Irwin.

She holds degrees in graphic Design, Marketing and Art History from the University of Texas at El Paso and is alum of Seth Godin's Alt NBA and the New York City Department of Cultural Affairs Leadership Etc Accelerator.

I am just so grateful Lolita took time out of her busy schedule to come on to the show today.

So without further ado, let's get into this and hear from the one and only Lolita Fiero.

Greetings and salutations, my creative brothers and sisters.

Welcome to Not Real Art, the podcast where we talk to the world's most creative people.

I am your host, faithful, trust, loyal, tireless host Sourdough coming at you from Crew West Studio in Los Angeles.

How are you people?

Thanks for being here.

We love you guys, so appreciate your loyalty, man.

Do we have a show for you today.

Not sure if You've heard of Art21, but if you haven't, you're about to.

Art21.org is an incredible organization out of New York City who creates incredible documentaries about artists this and you can stream all of their videos on their website, art21.org I so encourage you to do it.

You might have seen their show on PBS.

Art the 21st century has been on for a long time.

They've been around about 30 years and we have their Director of development, the one and only Lolita Fiero with us here today to talk about her work at R21.

In the work of Art 21 generally the important one work that they do and I can't wait to get into this conversation with Lolita.

It is a wonderful chat.

She's such a great human and arc21 is such an amazing organization and so I'm so excited to get into this conversation and you know a little bit about Lolita.

Lolita Fiero is the Director of Development at Arc21, where she oversees the organization's annual operating budget and leads multifaceted strategies to expand and diversify its donor base.

Under her leadership, Art21 has strengthened its fundraising efforts by launching its inaugural gala, revitalizing its events, programming and growing patron groups and travel initiatives that connect supporters with artists and cultural communities worldwide.

She works closely with staff and board to lead Art21 for everyone, the organization's first capacity building campaign designed to strengthen operations and expand programs that bring contemporary art to a wider audience.

Prior to Art 21 fo held roles at Art Table, where she managed membership and annual giving, and at the Chinatti foundation in Marfa, Texas, where she supported fundraising for the capital campaign for a new permanent installation by American artist Robert Irwin.

She holds degrees in graphic design, marketing and art history from the University of Texas at El Paso and is alum of Seth Godin's ALT MBA and the New York City Department of Cultural Affairs Leadership Etc Accelerator.

I am just so grateful Lolita took time out of her busy schedule to come on to the show today.

So without further ado, let's get into this and hear from the one and only Lolita Fiera.