Shownotes
What does dog agility have to do with spiritual growth?
Well, potentially a lot! Pamela Ziemann shares her experience with dog agility and highlights the importance of the connection and trust between the dog and handler in the sport and how it’s led to her own spiritual growth.
She also discusses how dysfunction in any relationship can affect other areas of life, as she discovered with her codependent tendencies affecting her agility performance. Pamela talks about how agility has led to personal development in other areas of her life, such as learning to let go of control and focusing on the present moment.
She believes that any activity, including agility,
can offer a spiritual curriculum for personal growth.
Pamela also emphasizes the benefits of allowing more space in life and not being afraid of a seemingly “boring life”. Listen to hear more about what she suggests happens when we give ourselves space and actions tend to come from an inspired place rather than from our ego.
In this episode:
- How dog agility is more than just running and jumping
- What is a spiritual curriculum
- Ways to ignite your personal development
About Pamela Ziemann
Pamela has been traveling, living in her van and performing her one-woman show until 2020. Since that time she’s been building a house, learning dog (and human!) agility and taking long walks by the Dungeness river, welcoming Olympic Peninsula travelers to her new short term rental studio.
www.Pamelaziemann.com
I really hope to connect with you personally so please send me a message here or join me in my Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/connectednesswithrevkaren. And in the meantime, enjoy the show!
Transcripts
Whatever you're doing, gardening or sewing, whatever it is,
rev karen:there is a lesson that the universe is showing us, and it's like, if you just
rev karen:slow down, for me, I just had to slow down and say, okay, let me just really feel
rev karen:into what was going on in that moment.
rev karen:when I flipped.
rev karen:when, when there was a lesson, you know, there's some kind of
rev karen:awareness that needs to happen.
rev karen:So slowing down, talking to people, journaling, and just recognizing that
rev karen:whatever you are doing in your life, it is your spiritual curriculum.
rev karen:Hello and welcome to the Connectedness Podcast.
rev karen:Just as you might have guessed, I talk about connection and connectedness
rev karen:on this podcast, our connection with everything in the world around us.
rev karen:Whether you see it or not, we're all connected.
rev karen:And it doesn't matter if it's our dog, our cat, our God, our body.
rev karen:And I'll also talk about some more abstract connections like our career or
rev karen:our land, our community, our emotions.
rev karen:Your body life is all about connection.
rev karen:So the sooner we recognize that, the sooner we can have an
rev karen:easier, more meaningful life.
rev karen:I will talk about these connections through different lenses.
rev karen:Things like synchronicities and coincidences are just everyday
rev karen:little bits of magic and miracles that we, we usually dismiss.
rev karen:It's really important that we pay attention to all of this so we can
rev karen:live an easier, more meaningful life.
rev karen:So welcome to the show.
rev karen:I'm your host, Karen Cleveland.
rev karen:hello.
rev karen:Welcome back everyone.
rev karen:So happy to have you back today.
rev karen:I'm actually talking with someone I met through a series of connections
rev karen:and coincidences that, uh, I might not have come in contact with Pamela if I
rev karen:hadn't just followed my intuition to go to a certain place at a certain time.
rev karen:It was a book signing.
rev karen:I'm talking with Pamela about Connect.
rev karen:and just a little brief intro about Pamela.
rev karen:She was traveling in her van doing a one woman show up until about
rev karen:2020, and at that, since that time, she has been building a home.
rev karen:She's been learning dog and human agility, taking long walks by the
rev karen:Dungeness River, which is here in Washington State, and just welcoming.
rev karen:Olympic Peninsula travelers to her new short-term rental studio, which
rev karen:I still need to go and check out and rent for a couple of nights.
rev karen:Welcome to the show, Pamela.
rev karen:Thank you, Karen.
rev karen:Yeah, you bet.
rev karen:So I'm really excited to hear because you got a new puppy, um,
rev karen:several years ago, and of course I've known you for more years.
rev karen:I've known you.
rev karen:Some of your dogs and, and some of what you've done.
rev karen:But why don't you just start , and tell the listeners , what this
rev karen:has meant for you , where does this connection story start that
rev karen:we're going to talk about today?
rev karen:Yeah, I think it's very interesting because you and I
rev karen:met at James Redfield, wasn't it?
rev karen:His Yes.
rev karen:Talk and he was all about coincidences, the Celine prophecy.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:And I, I've watched that many times since then and it's, it's really good.
rev karen:So it's funny that we met there at James about coincidences.
rev karen:and, and I think oddly enough it was about his second book or th
rev karen:or maybe third or fourth, I don't know which number book it was.
rev karen:I got the book, but I never actually read it.
rev karen:But I went to his reading his, so yeah, I was there.
rev karen:That's where we met.
rev karen:And you still have the book?
rev karen:I think I do.
rev karen:I've moved and I still have some boxes, but yeah, I'm sure I do.
rev karen:No, I.
rev karen:not to get too off track, but I've watched the, the documentary
rev karen:that he did and he said, watch it many times because the first time
rev karen:it's like, oh yeah, this is good.
rev karen:But then you watch it again and again and after everything we've been through
rev karen:in the last couple of years, it's like, yeah, it's, it's really good.
rev karen:So it's the James Redfield documentary on the Celestine prophecy.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:I will look that up.
rev karen:It's probably not a documentary.
rev karen:I think it's a movie.
rev karen:A movie.
rev karen:A movie.
rev karen:Movie called Movie, yeah.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:But anyway, I'm sorry about that.
rev karen:Little sidetrack.
rev karen:Getting back to your question, I've had Zeta now for a year and a half.
rev karen:She's a year and a half.
rev karen:and Y and I had never done agility before.
rev karen:And for you and the people listening, I used to think dog agility was just like,
rev karen:oh my God, you just like let your dog run and jump over the jumps and do the tunnel
rev karen:and the A-frame and it's just all so fun.
rev karen:But there is something that is so much more.
rev karen:Complex than just watching your dog run and jump.
rev karen:It's all about the connection.
rev karen:It's all about how connected are you to the dog.
rev karen:And if you're not, you are gonna fail in the ring.
rev karen:Um, your dog will just go running around and not come when you call him.
rev karen:And it's really embarrassing this has happened to me.
rev karen:Um, because they want you in and out of the ring in competitions.
rev karen:and if you can't catch your dog, if your dog won't come to you, it's not fun.
rev karen:I mean, it can be kind of funny to watch if you're on the outside.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:But it is, it's just like, for me, the time it happened, it was, it was so
rev karen:difficult because it's like this is showing to the world on a magnified level
rev karen:that we are not connected and it hurt.
rev karen:Oh.
rev karen:You know, it's just like, it just was so hard.
rev karen:. Um, but then when things are connected, when you're connected with your dog,
rev karen:it's so smooth and so beautiful and so fun to watch and participate in.
rev karen:But it's, you gotta be connected.
rev karen:You gotta have the trust between you and the dog.
rev karen:Um, and I, I was thinking back when you asked me to come on this podcast about,
rev karen:uh, one of the times that I learned and I videotaped all my lessons and I
rev karen:saw my codependence really stand out.
rev karen:I was like, no, I'm not a codependent person.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:We've all been through that.
rev karen:We've all taken the classes and No, no, not to be codependent,
rev karen:but I was in this lesson and I.
rev karen:Running with my dog.
rev karen:You as a handler, you learned the, the blind cross, the
rev karen:front cross, the rear cross.
rev karen:There's all these different ways of you and your dog running together so that
rev karen:they're lined up for the next jump.
rev karen:Okay?
rev karen:It's, it's amazing.
rev karen:Um, okay.
rev karen:But anyway, I was trying to do this rear cross, and so the dog has to go
rev karen:ahead of you and you run behind them.
rev karen:I just couldn't get it.
rev karen:I could not get it.
rev karen:And so my trainer said, why don't you run with my dog?
rev karen:And when I ran with her dog, . I was doing what I needed to do.
rev karen:I was running, I was in position, and everything just flowed.
rev karen:Then when I looked at the video, I saw myself like crouching
rev karen:over trying to help Zeta.
rev karen:She's just a Boston Terri.
rev karen:Right?
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:So she's just 14 pounds.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:And my codependence kicked in and I was like, Like bending over, you
rev karen:know, trying to help her and all that stuff, which really messed her up.
rev karen:Oh, okay.
rev karen:And it made me look like an idiot too, because I wasn't doing my job.
rev karen:I wasn't running where I needed to run to let her do her thing.
rev karen:So the codependence that I saw on the videotape was really, . It was
rev karen:very humbling because I thought, oh, I'm passed all this stuff.
rev karen:I'm not a codependent person.
rev karen:But it really showed me that when we are in a dysfunctional
rev karen:relationship like that, I mean, it comes through with agility and me.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:But you could dig in anything you're doing in life.
rev karen:If you take a look at it, you'll see.
rev karen:How it is not helpful at all in the connection, , so first I just wanna
rev karen:say it seems like a year and a half is really young for a dog to be
rev karen:performing like this and, and I mean, I know that you can absolutely have a
rev karen:connection with an animal at that age.
rev karen:I mean much younger than then, but.
rev karen:I have so many questions based on what you just said.
rev karen:I'm not sure which one to ask first, but when would you say you started,
rev karen:before you realized the codependence?
rev karen:I guess when, when did that connection start?
rev karen:As far as her behavior, because I know it's probably based a lot on
rev karen:of what your expectation is and when you're expecting her to do something.
rev karen:even though that's not what you want her to do, maybe you're expecting
rev karen:it and maybe that's a little bit where the co-dependence comes.
rev karen:But anyways.
rev karen:I mean, how old was she when you really started feeling like, oh, we're connected.
rev karen:We can start doing this.
rev karen:Yeah, and to your point just a little bit ago, there's a difference between
rev karen:luring a dog, like luring to, to them to take a jump versus going right on.
rev karen:You did.
rev karen:What we set out to do.
rev karen:And then you reward after you don't lure them to do it.
rev karen:Mm-hmm.
rev karen:, because that's just manipulation.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:And, and manipulation doesn't work.
rev karen:So that's not how agility is because I agree.
rev karen:What, what you first said, it looks like fun.
rev karen:You know, look at the dogs out there jumping and playing and looks
rev karen:like you just train them to do it.
rev karen:You know, you give them treats, you just train them and they just do it.
rev karen:But that's not how it is.
rev karen:You, you need to be connected.
rev karen:The handler.
rev karen:has to learn so much.
rev karen:I've had a couple friends that were gonna do agility cuz it looked like
rev karen:fun and they took a lesson or two and they're just like, can't do that because
rev karen:there's just so much involved with it and I don't wanna get too deep into that.
rev karen:Yeah, but your question.
rev karen:They have to be 15 months old before they can go in the ring and compete.
rev karen:So Zeta was like 15 months and three days.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:And we're overachievers, what can I say?
rev karen:But I wanted her just to get in there, just get a feel,
rev karen:just get acclimated to it.
rev karen:I didn't push her too hard, but, um, she, she loved it.
rev karen:And I could tell that we were connect.
rev karen:when we just started running together and I could feel that she's over there.
rev karen:She wants, she loves agility, right?
rev karen:She wants to take the jump, she wants to do the A frame and everything.
rev karen:Um, and you can just feel it.
rev karen:It's like with a person, right?
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:You just feel it when you're connected versus when one of them is trying too
rev karen:hard or there might be manipulation.
rev karen:anything other than pure connection and when it's a pure connection.
rev karen:I've had friends in agility tell me there's just nothing like it.
rev karen:Like you go through all the training, all the trials and waiting and everything,
rev karen:and then when you feel it, when you have what's called a cue, when you
rev karen:make it through the whole obstacle.
rev karen:without fault, and you have good time.
rev karen:It's, there's nothing like it.
rev karen:It's so fun because you just feel that connection.
rev karen:And since you've started that and feeling that connection and, and
rev karen:really understanding how you feel it, are you f do you feel like you're
rev karen:feeling it other places in your life or has it led to further development,
rev karen:personal development for you?
rev karen:Uh, yeah, I feel it in different areas for.
rev karen:. Um, just in relationships in general.
rev karen:I can feel when I'm off or when the relationship is off and
rev karen:what I need to let go of, it's pretty much a lot of letting go.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Like the control, whenever I feel like I'm trying to control situation.
rev karen:It, it doesn't work.
rev karen:I mean, that sounds so simple and we know that, but Right.
rev karen:Like for example, this agility camp that we went to last year, it was supposed to
rev karen:be 93 degrees and she's got a flat nose.
rev karen:She doesn't do well in heat.
rev karen:I don't do well in that kind of heat either.
rev karen:And I could feel myself trying to control that situation.
rev karen:And then I thought, no, just focus on what you can control.
rev karen:Get a fan, get a chili vest, reflects the sun off the dog, and, and to let go
rev karen:as much as possible of trying to control the situation and focusing on what is
rev karen:within my realm here that I can control and just focus on that because otherwise,
rev karen:you know, you could drive yourself crazy.
rev karen:That's definitely a life lesson, isn't it?
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:. Yeah, for sure.
rev karen:So I'm curious about when you didn't notice until you saw the
rev karen:video, how codependent you were about the, um, how she was doing.
rev karen:When you looked back at that, could you feel at the time, so in, in
rev karen:retrospect, could you say, oh, that's how I felt while I was doing that,
rev karen:and then turn around and recognize it in your life in other situations?
rev karen:because sometimes we don't know we're doing it right
rev karen:until we see a video and Yeah.
rev karen:And we feel a certain way and then we realize, oh, this is how
rev karen:I felt with this person or in this career, or in some other situation.
rev karen:Yeah, for sure.
rev karen:For me, it takes, looking at the video, a lot of journaling,
rev karen:what I felt in the moment.
rev karen:was, this just isn't working.
rev karen:Mm-hmm.
rev karen:, you know?
rev karen:Ok.
rev karen:And I've had that feeling before, like, I'm trying so hard.
rev karen:Like many of us, you know, you try so hard, you think
rev karen:you're doing everything right.
rev karen:What else do you want from me?
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:You know, I'm doing everything.
rev karen:And then you see that and it's like, oh, no wonder.
rev karen:But when we don't take an observer point of view, step back and
rev karen:just kind of observe all, all we can feel is something isn't.
rev karen:Something is flowing.
rev karen:It's the difference between control and, and things flowing.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:So do you have a way you step into that observer role now without a video camera?
rev karen:Well, I, I would say the more I have watched videos in the past,
rev karen:the easier it is for me to see in a lesson when I am over controlling.
rev karen:or trying to help too much.
rev karen:It's become very easy.
rev karen:In fact, now I'm working on distance and it's really cool because
rev karen:that's where in some of these.
rev karen:trials.
rev karen:You, you have your dog and you can't be near them.
rev karen:You have to send them to a jump from behind this marked line
rev karen:so you can't be close to them.
rev karen:Y so we're working on distance, which is super cool because she's over there.
rev karen:I'm over here and, and we're still connected.
rev karen:Mm-hmm.
rev karen:, like, we're still connected even though we're not like right next to each other.
rev karen:So that's helped in answer to your question, that's helped a lot.
rev karen:Just being able to focus on that too.
rev karen:Wow, is it truly a felt connection?
rev karen:Is she watching you or it's is she's just going by your energy and your connection?
rev karen:Well, the energy and connection, but she's watching too.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:These dogs are so incredibly.
rev karen:. Yeah.
rev karen:I, I have no idea.
rev karen:But they're watching everything.
rev karen:They watch.
rev karen:I've done a footwork horse, like which foot goes first and they actually take
rev karen:a different lead, like with horses, you know, when they're cantering
rev karen:around how they take a different lead.
rev karen:Well, dogs do that too, and if they go into the tunnel with the wrong
rev karen:lead, they can get really hurt.
rev karen:Oh.
rev karen:So it's up to me to have my foot the right foot forward.
rev karen:So that she changes lead to go into the tunnel.
rev karen:Interesting.
rev karen:And she watches it.
rev karen:And I said to my trainer one time, I said, how does she know that?
rev karen:She goes, they just do.
rev karen:They just do.
rev karen:They watch you so closely that, that they automatically will change leads.
rev karen:. Interesting.
rev karen:It does sound a lot like some of my friends and the work they
rev karen:do with their horses and mm-hmm.
rev karen:, the connection between them and, and how they move and how they train.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:So what do you think has fundamentally changed about your
rev karen:life or about your relationship with your dog through this process?
rev karen:Oh my gosh.
rev karen:Patience.
rev karen:. Just a small question.
rev karen:. Big time.
rev karen:Really.
rev karen:I mean, I have, in the beginning, Zeta was a handful.
rev karen:I mean, she was, I.
rev karen:So demanding and she had so much energy and I could feel myself losing it.
rev karen:Just like, my God, my whole life is this dog now.
rev karen:You know?
rev karen:Like, what do you need now?
rev karen:And you know, she's got this thing called the monkey cry where she'll,
rev karen:you know, wine and she wants something and, and, uh, I've learned in myself,
rev karen:I could feel before when I would.
rev karen:and now I can feel where it's just like, oh, okay, she needs a time out.
rev karen:Mm-hmm.
rev karen:And I would put her in the C Crave and she actually relaxes in her.
rev karen:Crave.
rev karen:She loves it, and she can calm down.
rev karen:So before I would react to something, get angry or frustrated
rev karen:with her, I could feel myself.
rev karen:It's like, wow, I'm really maturing , I'm maturing because
rev karen:I, I'm not letting it get to.
rev karen:I am just going, okay, this is what needs to happen now, and it's, it's much better.
rev karen:Mm-hmm.
rev karen:. Mm-hmm.
rev karen:, what's your favorite way to process all the information that's coming
rev karen:in, because it sounds like it's been a really incredible journey.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:I, I really enjoy journaling.
rev karen:Doing the video in slow motion where I can see what point there
rev karen:was an error or something that could have been done better.
rev karen:I like talking to people.
rev karen:I like talking to you, and I have another good friend who's in
rev karen:agility, who's also into personal development, which not everybody is.
rev karen:I'll go to trials and right.
rev karen:. I'm like, what have you learned about yourself?
rev karen:And they go, what?
rev karen:? Huh?
rev karen:I'm like, oh my God.
rev karen:This is just ripe for learning about ourselves and our patterns.
rev karen:But my one friend, her and I will talk too, and we understand, um, how.
rev karen:How amazing this whole thing is for personal development, and I
rev karen:just wanna say with your listeners, it doesn't have to be agility.
rev karen:Whatever you're doing, gardening or sewing, whatever it is, there is a
rev karen:lesson that the universe is showing us, and it's like, if you just slow
rev karen:down, for me, I just had to slow down and say, okay, let me just really feel
rev karen:into what was going on in that moment.
rev karen:when I flipped.
rev karen:You know, when, when there was a lesson, you know, there's some kind
rev karen:of awareness that needs to happen.
rev karen:So slowing down, talking to people, journaling, and just recognizing that
rev karen:whatever you are doing in your life, it is your spiritual curriculum.
rev karen:Wow.
rev karen:your spiritual curriculum.
rev karen:So I, I think that's really interesting because going back to what you said,
rev karen:that you would see other people at the, trials and people had no idea
rev karen:what you were talking about, about the personal journey, and all of a sudden
rev karen:it was, to me it was like, oh, right, this isn't, you know, it's not a.
rev karen:Come to agility for your spiritual, spiritual development.
rev karen:Uh, it might be for some people, but like you said, it's, um, your
rev karen:spiritual curriculum, so it's going to be something different for all of us.
rev karen:Perhaps it might be agility, it might be.
rev karen:, like you said, those other things as well.
rev karen:Mm-hmm.
rev karen:. And so, yeah, so based on that, and you were talking about, okay, slowing
rev karen:down, look what happened at the shift.
rev karen:Journaling, talking to people, that's really important.
rev karen:So we're creating our own curriculum BA basically based on Yeah.
rev karen:What, what brought you I, I mean, so based on some kind of a personal
rev karen:interest or talent or something, what brought you to Agility in the first.
rev karen:Well, I just wanted to see what my dog was capable of.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:You know, and I wanted to give her the most exposure to be who she can be.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:Rather than just walking by my side.
rev karen:She can really perform.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:And really get out there.
rev karen:Um, yeah.
rev karen:Do you feel like she led you to agility or LE is leading you through this journey?
rev karen:I think.
rev karen:because I didn't know at all.
rev karen:And then I started looking at agility and, and I was like, oh
rev karen:my gosh, I'm gonna have to run.
rev karen:I'm like, I don't even know if I can run anymore , honestly.
rev karen:I'm like, they're out there running and, and so I started running.
rev karen:I go, I can still run, but I never even, I wasn't a runner, I wasn't a sprinter.
rev karen:Any of those things you have to do short turns and all this stuff.
rev karen:Um, but I think she also has helped me to, Stay in the present moment more.
rev karen:There was a study done with, um, these dolphin trainers.
rev karen:It was either whales or dolphins, and the trainers would go in there and they did
rev karen:a study where they showed the trainers who went in with this, I know it all.
rev karen:I know it, how to control this animal.
rev karen:I know how to train them and.
rev karen:They compared that person with a trainer who went in and just said, what's
rev karen:different about this dolphin today?
rev karen:Hmm.
rev karen:How does this dolphin look different today than yesterday?
rev karen:or even like a half an hour ago, how is it different?
rev karen:And they said it was Dolphins.
rev karen:They said the dolphins had so much connection with the person because
rev karen:the person was in the present moment, not saying, I know it all.
rev karen:I'm a trainer.
rev karen:I know how to do all this.
rev karen:But how is this?
rev karen:And just imagine like you with your parents.
rev karen:or your friends or something when they're so tuned in and they're going,
rev karen:how is this person different right now?
rev karen:Mm-hmm.
rev karen:Right?
rev karen:Than yesterday.
rev karen:Rather than, oh yeah, she's my sister.
rev karen:I know.
rev karen:And you've already put 'em in a box.
rev karen:Right?
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:You who they are, what they're gonna say.
rev karen:It's like there's no room for connection because you've put them in a box.
rev karen:It's the same with the dogs.
rev karen:Like when I'm really tuned into.
rev karen:, she's tuned in to me like, we got this thing going.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:But yeah, one time adolescent, I was trying to get a jump set up and she ran
rev karen:off and it was training near a cliff, you know, it was like, I didn't want her
rev karen:running off, but somebody said to me, where were you when she lost interest
rev karen:and when she went running the other way.
rev karen:Ah.
rev karen:And I'm like, that's true.
rev karen:I was focused on setting up the jump.
rev karen:. Right.
rev karen:So that's when I came across that video of the dolphins and saying, you know, even
rev karen:with her in the ring, if I need to set up a jump, I need to hold her in my arms
rev karen:or put her in the van, because if I'm not connected with her out there when we're
rev karen:doing our thing, the disconnect happens.
rev karen:So there it's like a, a, a circular yeah.
rev karen:Connection.
rev karen:If you're not paying attention, then.
rev karen:, she won't go off.
rev karen:She won't pay attention to you.
rev karen:Yeah, exactly.
rev karen:That reminds me, um, I, I don't remember exactly what it is.
rev karen:It, it's not Krishna, but one of the Gods teaches.
rev karen:that in order to talk you have to have someone to listen,
rev karen:otherwise you're not talking.
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:So there, there needs to be, you know, both sides of it.
rev karen:And isn't that the truth of life?
rev karen:The, you know, balance and, and order and everything.
rev karen:It has to be, um, give and take, so, mm-hmm.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:And yeah, go ahead.
rev karen:And the intelligence between us, have you ever noticed, like when you are giving
rev karen:full attention, The answers that come from the other person are so much richer.
rev karen:Mm.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Like I've done communication skills where we're just really totally
rev karen:focused and we watch videos.
rev karen:It's like, we could not have done this without the person listening.
rev karen:Interesting.
rev karen:Without that deep, deep listening, because otherwise it's just a monologue.
rev karen:Right, right.
rev karen:. , that's.
rev karen:. , , when I would teach people animal communication or talk about
rev karen:animal communication, it's like, it's really about focus.
rev karen:You actually have to intentionally.
rev karen:, sit and be quiet and, and listen or try to connect, , same as with the
rev karen:friends on the couch, or you can sit next to a person, you might still be
rev karen:connected, but you're paying attention to your phone or whatever else.
rev karen:It's not until you look at each other and you start focusing on each
rev karen:other that things start happening.
rev karen:What is your, your education process for further development?
rev karen:Do you have one?
rev karen:I do.
rev karen:I work with a couple different people and I also work a lot with myself now.
rev karen:Like I think a lot of us are getting to that point where it's like, this
rev karen:is awesome and I love to share ideas.
rev karen:Mm-hmm.
rev karen:, but I also just notice that when I tune in like this past couple of years, I've just.
rev karen:Really focusing on, on just, um, not depending so much on all the outside
rev karen:sources, but just going inward and just being still, and that can be so hard.
rev karen:I mean, I was raised in Minnesota where we were always going.
rev karen:Right?
rev karen:Right.
rev karen:And you, I could think that was a failure if I didn't do something.
rev karen:But I tried to turn my computer off like seven at the latest, and just either
rev karen:I'll lay in reconstructive pose and or I'll just stare at the fireplace.
rev karen:And that's, There's a lot coming up.
rev karen:Like, I should be doing something.
rev karen:I could be doing something else.
rev karen:But everything happens in that space where you allow more space.
rev karen:And who was it I just read the other day?
rev karen:Beware of the something of a boring life.
rev karen:Like, don't be scared to have a boring life.
rev karen:Mm.
rev karen:and, and that really struck me because I noticed that when I just
rev karen:thought my life has become so boring.
rev karen:I used to do all this stuff.
rev karen:I used to have something going on all the time, and now I'm
rev karen:laying on my bathroom floor.
rev karen:It's a heated floor.
rev karen:Oh.
rev karen:So notice.
rev karen:So it's really nice, but I just lay on that floor for hours sometimes, and I'm.
rev karen:I'm not doing anything, but everything happens.
rev karen:Everything unfolds.
rev karen:Mm-hmm.
rev karen:, when we just give ourselves that space, and I'm not saying like just become
rev karen:a couch potato and do nothing all the time, but the, the actions we take
rev karen:are more from that connected place.
rev karen:You know what I mean?
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:It's like it isn't from this predetermined control ego,
rev karen:it's from this inspired action.
rev karen:I mean, if I may, one last analogy with the A frame in agility.
rev karen:These little dogs run up at, uh, at an angle, they cannot
rev karen:see what's on the other side.
rev karen:Mm-hmm.
rev karen:, they, they have to go on trust and then we've worked it before, but I thought
rev karen:when she was doing her first one in a trial, I go, that's just like my life.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:It's like w most of us don't know where we're going.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:We can't see what's on the other side of this Exactly.
rev karen:What's happening on the planet.
rev karen:We don't know.
rev karen:I mean, that's the bottom line.
rev karen:We just don't know, but we have to trust.
rev karen:We have to, you know, go up that into the great unknown and get to the other side.
rev karen:That's true.
rev karen:Without necessarily knowing and just keep, I mean, trust in
rev karen:ourselves is, is just huge and.
rev karen:You know, I think sometimes, you know, I've said to myself,
rev karen:oh, I should have done that.
rev karen:And then I thought, when I couldn't sleep one night, I thought,
rev karen:what if every decision I've ever made has been the correct one?
rev karen:Mm wow.
rev karen:And I fell asleep.
rev karen:It was, yeah.
rev karen:That's pretty powerful.
rev karen:Every decision you made was the correct one.
rev karen:Ultimately it is isn.
rev karen:. Yeah.
rev karen:They're all the correct choices decisions, but we turn it over
rev karen:in our head so many times.
rev karen:Right?
rev karen:And that leads to sleepless nights and beating ourselves
rev karen:up, not being kind to ourselves.
rev karen:I could feel when I said that to myself, I just felt this like this.
rev karen:Just embrace like, yes.
rev karen:Being kind to yourself.
rev karen:Like even if I had made that other decision, that would've been right
rev karen:for my particular spiritual path.
rev karen:Right?
rev karen:So it takes, takes a load off.
rev karen:That's true.
rev karen:because of the last few years, I've, you know, had to turn certain decisions
rev karen:over in my head about do I wanna do something or not do something?
rev karen:And ultimately, checking in with my divine guidance.
rev karen:, either way is the right decision.
rev karen:There's, there's a lesson either way.
rev karen:Mm-hmm.
rev karen:, there's no wrong answer.
rev karen:So whether you do this or you don't do this, there's going
rev karen:to be some kind of a learning.
rev karen:There's going to be, you know, information you will learn and you will grow.
rev karen:. Yeah.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:And I look at the, you see, you got me started on agility , but in agility
rev karen:there's this refusal line, like if they don't take the jump or they refuse it,
rev karen:but it's different than if they go up to it and just get their footing right, and
rev karen:they kind of assess and then they do it.
rev karen:That's not a penalty.
rev karen:. And I thought with myself too, it's like, where am I not giving myself permission?
rev karen:Or am I just refusing something?
rev karen:Am I just in my ego going, no, no, I'm not gonna do that.
rev karen:Or am I just taking my time Yeah.
rev karen:To say, is this the right thing?
rev karen:Am I gonna go for it or not?
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:That's interesting.
rev karen:And earlier when you said, you know what, if every decision I made.
rev karen:Correct or the right decision.
rev karen:I love those.
rev karen:What if statements?
rev karen:I use those an awful lot because it really seems to open us up to it's okay.
rev karen:And possibilities.
rev karen:You know what?
rev karen:If I am fully supported doing what I love?
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:What if.
rev karen:That's powerful.
rev karen:Is there anything that you.
rev karen:That I should have asked you that I neglected to that, you know, or what
rev karen:if, if you would've asked me this one question , that would've been so awesome.
rev karen:What if we have covered everything?
rev karen:What if?
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:I love that too.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Is there anything you wish everyone knew?
rev karen:Like if you had a message to everyone, what would it be?
rev karen:, it probably changes every day, but right now I would say slow down.
rev karen:I gotta say this to myself all the time.
rev karen:I mean, I get excited talking about this topic.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:But it really does seem to me that if we all slowed down and really
rev karen:noticed what was revealing itself to us in our lives, um, we could relax.
rev karen:We could relax a lot.
rev karen:. Yeah, that's true.
rev karen:That's true.
rev karen:I like that.
rev karen:Thank you.
rev karen:Do you have anything you want the listeners to know about you?
rev karen:Uh, I'll of course put any links if you have 'em on my, on the show notes.
rev karen:But do you have any books or shows or anything coming up you wanna promote?
rev karen:Um, No, they could go to my website, pamela zema.com to see what I've been
rev karen:doing and also I'm just joining this, this other unite.live because it's
rev karen:all, um, I dunno, I'm just learning more about it, but I'll have my studio.
rev karen:Apartment on there that I'm renting out.
rev karen:If people are in Quim or they're in the Olympic Peninsula, I'm
rev karen:renting out my fabulous first floor place and I'm right by the river.
rev karen:Maybe you can see it, but that's kind right by the Dungeness River.
rev karen:Miles and miles of walking trails.
rev karen:And, uh, . Yeah.
rev karen:I just love to share it with people.
rev karen:I love to go foraging.
rev karen:I'm gonna be seaweed foraging next week and wow, I'm just
rev karen:doing all this really fun stuff.
rev karen:So that's actually where my energy is these days, is just
rev karen:welcoming people into my home.
rev karen:You know, the whole first floor, private entrance and all that, but just
rev karen:hanging out by the river and exploring.
rev karen:Nice.
rev karen:And And they find it@unite.live?
rev karen:Is that what you called?
rev karen:Actually, they could just email me and I can let 'em know more about it.
rev karen:Yeah.
rev karen:Okay.
rev karen:Fantastic.
rev karen:But you might wanna check out unite.live.
rev karen:I think it's a pretty cool site because, um, there's no harvesting
rev karen:of information like on all the other channels and stuff like that.
rev karen:It's very clean and Oh, I've, yeah, I've not heard of it, so I will check it out.
rev karen:All right.
rev karen:Yeah, you might like it.
rev karen:. Fantastic.
rev karen:Well, thank you Pamela.
rev karen:And, I will say goodbye to the listeners.
rev karen:Look forward to connecting with everyone later and, , have a great day.
rev karen:If you enjoyed the show, don't forget to head over to rev karen podcast.com.
rev karen:That's R E V K A R E N podcast.com.
rev karen:There you're gonna find the tools for finding more meaning
rev karen:and happiness in your own life.
rev karen:Plus, if you have a story that you want to share with me, either on or off the
rev karen:air, be sure to look for that form.
rev karen:Make sure you follow me so you get notified when new episodes drop.
rev karen:And also I'd love to connect with you and my Facebook group
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rev karen:So head over to rev karen podcast.com.
