Carrie Butler is an amazing young woman who works in bi-vocational ministry. Splitting her time between being the owner of Haven Interiors, which is a real estate staging company, and serving as the Campus Director at a local church called Christ the King Downtown, this woman makes waves in so many areas of her community, and is loved and known by so many. In this episode, we chat about finding gratitude when things don’t go as planned.

Welcome to the Collide Podcast. We're a growing community of everyday chicks colliding with Jesus in our mess, our pain, our joy, and our stories.

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What the heck, God? Like, did you forget me? Like, that was a huge thing. I had to lay on the altar last year.

You know, like, just this feeling of being forgotten, and he has to come back around and remind me and tell me, like, no. Like, I still know these things about you. I know you intimately. But we have some other work to do right now.

Welcome to the Collide Podcast. I'm Willow Weston, the founder and director of Collide, and today I'm so excited to have Carrie Butler on the podcast.

Carrie is an amazing woman who works in bi vocational ministry, splitting her time between being the owner of Haven Interiors, which is a real estate staging company, and then serving as well as the campus director at a church called Christ the King. And this woman makes waves in so many areas of her community. She's loved and known by many. She's absolutely inspiring.

She's an inspiring businesswoman, an inspiring leader, an inspiring minister, an inspiring friend. And I am sure that you will be inspired as you listen in to her story and a piece of it today.

Carrie, thank you for hopping on and having this convo with me.

Thanks, Willow. That was the most beautiful introduction. Thank you.

Well, guess what? You can press play and listen to it over and over again. I've known you for many years, and you've been a joy and a delight. And, man, you. You just.

You do. I've seen you. You have a servant's heart. And I've watched you serve youth and adults in the church and serve women through collide.

And you have so many gifts, and you started your own business and you strad both business and ministry, and there's so many things you've been a part of.

And as I think about that, I wonder, as you evaluate this place that you are in your life currently, are you where you thought you would be when you pictured life, you know, in this time, in this age? Is this what you picture?

Not at all. I think that my.

My dream, you know, I think every girl, you know, growing up, we've seen enough Disney movies or whatever, you think I'm gonna be married by 20, you know, three. It's coming gone. I am about to turn 37 this month, which seems like a big number, but. Yeah, it's, it's not where I thought I would be.

I, I think about that a lot. But I also, like, in hindsight when I look about, like back on the things that God's done and the thing that.

Things that he's shown me, the places he's taken me to, you know, I just go, well, yeah. Would I want it any other way? You know, like, so it's. Yeah, it's definitely not where I thought I'd be. I thought I'd be married with kids.

Not married. No. K. You know, like. Yeah, it's, it's, it's a, there's a tension there, but it's also, there's beauty in it too. So.

Yeah, and I want to talk about that. Like, I want to kind of enter into that a little bit and talk about sort of some of your longings and your dreams and how those have.

Some of those haven't kind of unfolded in the way that you maybe expected them to.

You're single and you're 37, and you kind of said like when you're little girl, watched a lot of Disney movies, you had this, this idea of what your life would look like. What does it look like even, you know, you mentioned kind of joking, like you pictured yourself married by 23.

Well, 23 was what, you know, 14 years ago for you. So what does it look like for you in the last 14 years to not have arrived to the place that you kind of pictured for yourself?

Has that been discouraging, disappointing? Tell us, tell us what that looks like on good days and bad days.

Yeah. So, I mean, the word that comes to mind is it's been an adventure. I feel like that's just how God and I work together.

You know, he's taken me on an adventure and any adventure has, you know, valleys and peaks. Right. And the in between places where you feel like, am I getting anywhere? You know, the middle of the mountain, Is this working?

Is this what I should be doing? Is this where I should be?

You know, I, I definitely thought that things would be different, but I think very early on, you know, I. I went to a school, like ministry school in England, and I think I was about 22, 23 around then. And honestly, God just captured my heart in a way in that time that it's just I've never been the same.

And the longing for adventure and to go with God wherever he wanted to take me was sort of this, like, I couldn't ignore that, you know, it was just too good.

And over the years, you know, I've been able to travel a bunch and have freedom to do these things, to be in ministry, to build, you know, a couple of businesses, to be available in a way that I wouldn't have been able to be available had I been married at 22, 23, you know, and there's. Yeah, and I'm, I'm a pretty positive person. I'm a seven on the Enneagram.

So I'm very much like, okay, let me talk about the flip side of this first, you know, because that's definitely where I live. I'll live in like the positive.

But the tension, you know, comes in with, you know, looking at all my friends and going, okay, they have like 10 year olds, you know, they're sending their kids off to middle school or, you know, it's just a different life.

I have a lot of friends who.

Are a lot younger and I actually like that in a lot of ways they keep me young. I have this running joke that's like, I'm 25 in my mind forever.

Just, I like that, that place of just being free to serve and love people and yeah, I guess just be, be in that place of being available for God. That's the thing that I feel like he's really called me to as a ministry of availability is the way that I've heard it from him.

And that's just been key, you know, to go back to that and go like, well, I could, you know, and I still believe that, you know, I have those dreams.

I still want to be married, I still want to have kids, you know, but the way that I see that now is so different than I saw it at that time, you know, and 14 years later, my perspective is totally different.

Right. It's so interesting because. And there's so many questions I want to ask you. Taking notes ravenously. Yeah.

You, you say that God instilled in you in this experience that you had at this, at this Christian school. Was, was that what you said, a Christian school? A longing for adventure?

And I think that's a really interesting idea that like your dream became about a longing for adventure and you've, you've tried to find some gratitude in, in that dream being realized instead of some specific idealized dream. Like, I think in a lot of ways, women in general almost kind of write that part of our story. Like getting married and having kids is a definite.

It's a given, it's a for sure. And, or we even do it in other areas of our life where we have a specific idealized dream. Like, I dream to be a lawyer. I dream to be a doctor.

I dream to have two kids, and then something doesn't work out. And I think you're talking about something that's not like a specific kind of, like, idealized dream, but like this.

This longing that's being fulfilled in your life, which is pretty cool.

Yeah, it is cool. It's. I. I feel lucky in a way. You know, I. There's. There's the disappointments as well, you know, and that's. We can get into that, too.

But there's this space of. If I think of it as an adventure and that. That God kind of planted that seed to me, it's like, well, he's.

He's the best adventure partner that I'll ever have, ever, you know, period. And. And so that, for me, I guess, has just reframed the way that I've looked at my life.

I mean, last week, you know, I was still lamenting with a friend, though. I'm like, I'm not married. You know, this is not. It's not like, I'm just like, okay, cool, we're good.

You know, I don't want to give that impression away at all. But I think at the end of the day, I always have to come back to. I've given my life to Jesus, and He knows me through and through.

He knows the desires of my heart. He knows my dreams. He knows how he's made me.

And honestly, at this point in my life, like, with all of the things that I'm juggling, I sometimes go, like, there's no way I could be, like, doing all of that as well. And so I just have to go back to, like, purpose and calling and.

And really that adventure and trusting the Lord with that timeline, because otherwise I'll just be miserable, you know? Like. And there's certainly times where I'm like, what the heck, God? Like, did you forget me?

Like, that was a huge thing I had to lay on the altar last year. You know, like, just this feeling of being forgotten, and he has to come back and around and remind me and tell me, like, no.

Like, I still know these things about you. I know you intimately, but we have some other work to do right now.

And that frees me up to just live in the now and live in the present, which is also very difficult for me. So sometimes I feel like it's just like this big joke that I'm living in.

Like, I'm just Like, ah, you know, you thought, you thought you had this figured out.

But it's sometimes just the things that he's inviting me to directly go against, like my human nature and some of the like, difficult sides of that uglier side of my human nature, you know, like wanting to plan and wanting to know the future and wanting to feel complete and feel like I have everything I need to have enough. And you know, really it doesn't matter what's a part of my life, like Jesus is still enough.

And it's so interesting because as you're talking, you know, you've been able to almost pause and look back over your life, look back to when you're a little girl, when you had this dream and a dream carried, carried forward. And it's not that you don't still have this dream, but you've been able to sort of shift your perspective, it sounds like.

And the thing that has helped you shift your perspective and go from my dream isn't being met it being fulfilled to actually like, because I'm not married, because I don't have kids, I'm actually available to do all of these things that God has called me to do.

And you're kind of sure of your calling, which pretty much requires this sort of trusting you're at where you're at because you're supposed to be there.

Right?

Right. And it sounds like that's what you're trusting, which takes huge faith.

I, I kind of want to return back to something you said where last year you were feeling forgotten.

Tell us a little bit about what that feeling was like for you because I'm imagining that a lot of people listening and even me as I'm listening to you are like, oh, I know, I know what that feeling feels like and I want to hear what that looks like for you to feel that. And then you said kind of lay it on the altar and give it back to God. What was that like?

Yeah, so, I mean I, I've, I'm kind of coming through this year of learning how to rest, learning how to take those breaks, the built in rhythms that God's given us. And so I was on a sabbatical last year in England and Ireland and just had planned this like week for myself to be alone.

And you know, I'm sitting in this little cottage in the middle of Derbyshire and it was just beautiful and I just, I knew that I needed to take a day just, you know, kind of to rest and be with God.

And that phrase had come up quite often last year and I don't think I'd been able to, like, pinpoint it very much and just kind of that feeling, like you said, like, what does that feel like? Well, feelings can be really hard for me. Like I said, I tend to live in positive.

So if I'm feeling crummy about something, it's hard for me to, like, go, what is actually going on?

But in that time with him, that day that I spent, you know, with the Lord, just, like, journaling and drinking tea, being present, that phrase really came to mind. And I felt like I was able to finally verbalize this feeling of feeling forgotten.

And for me, you know, like I mentioned, like, you know, I have friends who are my age who have kids that are way older, and they're just in a completely different place of life. And it doesn't mean that we can't connect and we can't be community for one another. Now it's not just like, my friends my age. It's friend.

It's kids, you know, girls that I mentored in, like, high school or having kids and getting married. And so I'm in this, like, phase where I, like, okay, God, somewhere along the line, did you just forget that I want this too? You know?

Did you forget that I exist? You know, like, it can go that deep to just having. Having this fear, really, that he's.

He's forgotten this big chunk of my life, specifically when it comes to being married and. And having children and being a mom, you know. And so, yeah, in that moment, I guess I just had to offer it back.

It didn't come from him, but, like, it just was this thing that I'd sort of received and like, stamped on myself, I guess, and had to say, this is actually. This is how I feel. And this hurts, you know, like, God, okay.

And he's, you know, it's like he's the person that I get to be honest with about those feelings and those thoughts. And I think for a long time I didn't think that that was appropriate. I didn't think that he could take it or that he wanted to hear.

Hear it.

But that is something that, over the years, I've felt him inviting me into the rawness and the real, you know, places of my emotion and my feelings and saying, like, no, I'm strong enough. Like, I can. I can handle it. I made you to feel these things, you know?

And so I know what's in you, and I know and I want to hear it directly, you know?

So, yeah, I mean, there's still moments, I think Even just a few weeks ago, as I was feeling that again, you know, and just had to go like, okay, back to that moment in the cottage with the Lord and. And go like, I gave that up, you know, like, I gave that feeling up because that is not him and that's not who he is. He hasn't forgotten me.

He hasn't. He doesn't pick and choose, I think, the things that mean something to us, if that makes sense.

Like, he doesn't just go, I'm just, you know, like, you're a good servant, you know, like, I want you, I need you to do this work for the church or whatever. I need you to love people. But these other things that are in your heart, you know, we don't need those.

Right. That's not. Yeah.

At all. And so. But it can easily go there. It can go to kind of this, oh, am I just here to, like, serve you, you know, for the rest of my life?

You know, it's so interesting because here you are in some beautiful place in Europe and. And you said you stamped this thing that you realized was on you, which was not beautiful. Right.

It was this negative thing, belief, that you kind of probably spin inside your head even unconsciously. And I think there's so much power to. To naming it. And you named it. And then you keep having to remind yourself of what is true.

Like, no, I gave that up. And I think we as women need to keep doing that. We need to name what's sticking to us that isn't true about ourselves and isn't true about God.

But then we have to keep reminding ourselves, no, I gave up that lie. I gave up that belief. And keep believing that God big enough to handle our ick and our pain and our mess and the lies. So I love that.

I love that that's the work that you're doing, and I love that you share it so openly. You mentioned you still have this dream, and I just wonder what's that like? Like, what's that like for you to have this longing?

And do you kind of have mental games, like almost like a mental tennis game? Or you have this longing and. And you hope in it and you want it and you pray for it and you ask God for it.

But then do you also have this kind of like, oh, I can't ask God for it. I haven't gotten it yet. I'm never going to get it. Or do you feel like you have to surrender the dream and not hope in the dream?

Like, what's that inner work like for You.

Yeah, that's such a good question. I actually had this image.

We did.

We did a series at our church back. Oh, my gosh. It's like, oh, yeah, that was this year. It was February, pre March. I don't remember much, but we did a series called Redeeming Sex.

And I actually, like, preached on singleness. And it.

We had these, like, times for Q and A after each service, and a friend actually asked a question, and he's a similar age to me, you know, not married, and there's just a real struggle there. And I had this image while he was sharing. I just saw, like, this picture of a room, you know, with all these shelves. And in.

In this room, on all the shelves, there were these boxes, and they were all just like, these white boxes. And I felt like one of those boxes was the desire to be married, you know, and. And I just clearly saw that the box is there.

God sees the box, but the box, like, isn't in play right now. You know, Like, I can take. I can open the box. I can look in the box. And I know. I acknowledge it. It's there, but I don't take it off the shelf.

And so I guess that. I guess for me, that is a. It's a trust act. Like, I've had a big issue that's just a little bit of a ramble.

But, like, a lot of folks will just say, like, if I mention a struggle or, like, I want to be married or. I don't even say that. I just think about, like, you know, it'd be really cool to, like, go grocery shopping with somebody. You know, like, there's.

That would just be, like, really helpful. It'd be fun to, like, drive around with somebody and, like, talk about things and, you know, the companionship. And I. I just.

Every time, like, I mention something like that, I feel like there's this, well, just go. An online date, you know, like, that's the answer for everything these days. And for me personally, like, I don't care if anybody online dates.

It's fine. Like, I want to know your motives. Like, that's the pastor and me coming out going, like, okay, why are we doing this? You know, what's the purpose?

Da, da, da, da, da. But for me, it's just felt like me taking that box off the shelf and opening it up and being like, God, look, it's ready.

You know, like, can we use this box now?

You know, I don't know if that picture makes sense to anybody, but for me, it's like, there's this awareness that there's this longing and this thing, and God knows it's there. And so for me, it's. It's really leaning back in that.

And trusting him as a good father, as somebody who knows that that dream's been in my heart since a very young age. And. And also being. I mean, I definitely had those moments with God of saying, like, is your desire for me to be single for the rest of my life?

You know, like, you have to kind of eke those words out at some point and ask him those questions. Because I think that's something that a lot of people, you know, as you get older and you're. If you're single, it's like, well, is this it?

You know, like, is this what you want? And I think for me, rather than, like, just ignoring. Ignoring it, it's. It's like, no, it's there, it's present. I know it's real.

I. I just have to, like, I have to bring it to mind often, too, and, like, remember, because I'll get busy and I. I just go like, okay, this is it. You know, I'm just doing my life. I'm. I'm good. You know, I'm independent, whatever. I actually have to remind myself, too.

And I think, honestly, when you first, like, ask that question, community is key for me. It's my friends who I get to talk to about that stuff and just be like, man, it'd be nice if this was a part of my life, but it isn't right now.

And so how do I live fully without that, you know?

Well, it's so. It's so interesting because you're kind of describing.

You're describing this room with these boxes, and that's one of the boxes, one of the longings that hasn't unfolded yet and. Right. And it sounds like in some ways you're trying to be real and. And kind of bring to God, is this something. Is this a box I'll never get?

But you're also holding out this longing of you could also give it to me, and you don't really know how the story is going to unfold, which is really like a place of mystery, faith, and not knowing, but you're trying not to swing to one side or the other, where we can get so unhealthy and so fixated on a specific dream that we're always so discontent with our life because we think until that one thing happens, we'll never be happy. We can live years and decades of our life like that, but then we can also swing to the other side and say, God hasn't given me this.

I'm never going to get this. I'm never going to get any of my dreams, any of my hopes. And so why even try? Why even hope? Why even pray?

And it sounds to me like you're kind of open handed recognizing, hey, like this might not go the way I want it to, or I might have this specific longing fulfilled and I'm kind of waiting for God to decide if he's gonna hand me the box. I mean, that's kind of what I get from what you're saying. Would you, would you say that's, that's what you're saying or. Yeah, correct me.

Yeah, it's totally what I'm saying.

It's, it's attention, you know, of not ignoring, not hiding that feeling and that desire and continuing to bring that to God and saying, I still want this. You know, this is still here. But at the end of the day going like, yeah, he knows it's there. I trust him with that.

Like, I, you know, I've prayed a lot over it and there's huge gaps of time where I just don't ever pray specifically about it anymore because I feel like it's this thing that we're just in sync about. Like at this point, you know, he knows that desire. And I, I can't, honestly, I don't want to waste any time, you know, like, with being single.

There's so many benefits to that. There's so many things that I get to do because I have that freedom.

And honestly, like, I just, I don't want to, I don't want to waste that time because, you know, the hope is that one day that would be a part of my life and things are going to look different and parties are going to change. Like, there's no way I could have started a business, you know, in the midst of all of it.

I mean, sure, I could have had like that support person or, you know, but just in terms of just literally logistics of time and, you know, being free to do those things and not worry about, you know, just someone else in my life that I would want to respect in that sense, you know, like always, am I, am I being a good partner? And I think right now, yeah, I just have, I have the freedom to do some things that like, okay, here's, here's a, here's your chance.

You know, in a sense, you have.

Such a good attitude about it and I, I wonder, you know, we're in a series on gratitude. And it feels like you are experiencing gratitude in the midst of sort of unmet dreams that you've had for your life.

And I wonder, like, on the days where you have.

You have hard days or you feel a little bit overcome by the disappointments, what are the things that you do to lean into this gratitude perspective that you have, this grateful perspective?

Yeah, I think for me, that the. The key has been reversing my thinking.

So you kind of mentioned, you know, it's easy, I think, for us when we have something that we want and God isn't seemingly giving it to us or it's not in our timeline, it's easy to just kind of sit in that disappointment and sit in that space of, well, this isn't happening. And I will be completely honest and say, like, I'm there often.

You know, like, it's not that I don't ever feel those things, but it's what do I do to reverse it? And for me, that that means reflecting on the opportunities that I get to say yes to.

I just, you know, thinking about gratitude right now, you know, we're here. We are in the middle of a pandemic, and kids are at school or at home and doing school at home.

I get to help my family, you know, watch my nephews in the mornings on Thursdays. And it's so simple. But I'm just. I'm able to say yes to that right now and be a part of their lives in a really special way.

There's things that, you know, with. With just my involvement at church that, you know, I. I think I. I do have, like, you know, that awareness of, oh, you know, single people.

Just because they're single doesn't mean that they have, like, all these. This extra time. That's kind of a misnomer. And I think some. Something that kind of gets used against single people a lot. You know, it's.

It's kind of this, oh, well, you're good. You know, like, you've got all this extra space and whatever.

It's like, well, actually, I'm doing all of this by myself, so you really have to, like, rely on friends and family and stuff.

But I do get to the, you know, the opportunity to meet with people and be involved and say yes to things that had I other, you know, priorities and commitments, I wouldn't be able to be as involved.

Right.

You know, there's just. There's these beautiful sides of it. And I also realized that I have a voice.

Like you mentioned the word inspire and inspiring at the beginning, and it's funny because I have that, like, you know, metal art. It's. I'm looking at it right now. I see it every day. It's just the word inspire.

And it's actually a word that I really struggled with for a while because it was like, I don't feel inspirational, you know, like, just kind of trudging through my life doing the best I can, you know, like, serving where I can serve. And God's shown me in the last few years, like, no, you. You have a voice, and I want you to use it.

And one of the ways that you're going to use this is just your story, just your life, you know, just the things that you faced and to be open and honest about it, because, like, you said, like, there's other. There's women out there that need to hear that they're not alone, that they. Yeah. That they're heard, they're seen.

And so I think for me, realizing that God is using the valleys. He. He has used the valleys. And my job is to take my story and go, okay, God, like, where's your goodness in this? Like, where have you shown up?

And to reflect that out and share that and be. Yeah, to be encouragement, to be a light, shed some light on some dark places, but also reveal God's goodness in those places.

I love that you are an inspiration to those who get the blessing of hearing you share about your life. And we're getting that today. You know, you.

You said something that's so interesting, and all of us listening can literally put this into play in our lives, like this exact minute, which is you said the key to your gratitude is reverse thinking. And the example you gave. You said, we're in the middle of a pandemic.

And you said, but I think about it as I get to go and spend time with my, you know, my nieces and nephews or whatever. You said, like, instead of I don't get to. We're thinking in Covid all the things we don't get to do.

And you're thinking about what you do get to do, or you're hearing no, no, no in areas of your life that maybe you've prayed for and longed for and begged for. And instead of hearing all those no's and being disappointed, you're saying, because I'm hearing no's, I can say yes.

And I think so often, like, this. This idea of, like, I can't. I can't do all these things. I'm.

I've been blocked, hindered, there's obstacles in the way we don't think about all the things we can do.

So I love, like, you are saying, like, reverse the thinking, and you're gonna change your attitude into a place of gratitude, which is such fabulous advice. Thank you for that.

I. I want to take a few minutes to talk about how your story actually got a little bit more complicated within the last couple years when you experienced a really difficult health decision. And I'm wondering if you can kind of invite us into to that story a little bit.

Yes, for sure. Yeah. So it's about a little over two years ago, I decided to have a hysterectomy. And it had been kind of a long time coming.

I had been just battling fibroids. To all my sisters out there who have ever dealt with fibroids or endometriosis or anything like that, oh, my gosh, I feel you.

And, yeah, you are not alone. I think it's a very stigmatized thing, actually, that we don't talk about because our reproductive systems are very, you know, sacred, I guess.

Good for a few years.

Oh, yeah. I love those.

And I. Right,.

Yeah.

I decided to go forward with the surgery. But my.

I had a really great surgeon, and when she sat me down, I mean, I had tried everything for, like, you know, a year prior, really, two years prior. You know, we're trying to do the best we could, and all the while, you know, praying for a husband.

Honestly, like, you know, can we just, like, get one kid out of the deal? And I. Yeah, she just sat me down and basically said, your body is. Is. Is kind of working against you.

So right now, it's up to you to make a decision for your health, ultimately.

And in that moment, I just felt, like, complete peace about it, that God was telling me, you know, you have a choice here for yourself and for your future. It was pretty clear at that point, like, the fibroids were so large that they were starting to impede on my other organs and everything.

So it was kind of a clear medical decision, but giving up this dream of, you know, bearing my own kids, and that was. That was more difficult.

And that kind of came the grief with that came later because I just decided in that moment, yeah, okay, we're going forward with the surgery. And I. Yeah, I think over the. Over the next year, it was just a process of really, you know, riding the waves of grief, honestly.

But through that experience, God has reminded me of a couple things. One that I don't have to, you know, have bear my own kids to be a mom. I have a. Kind of.

Always wanted to adopt, and I'm at the place now even, you know, if. Obviously, it depends on what my husband wants. But if I. If I have the option, you know, I'm gonna. I'm gonna just take in a kid that needs a home.

And the other side of it was really just surrender, you know, of God and his plan and his timing. And I was so. I've been so grateful that I didn't really ever have this intense desire to be pregnant.

And I think a lot of women do have that, and I completely empathize with that, but I never really had that. And so I'm just grateful for that side of things. I don't. It seems like a weird thing to say, but I just.

Just.

I never had that piece, you know, to really process and think about. I'm also just really grateful that I wasn't married in some respects, because I was able to make that decision without that person in mind.

There's two sides to that, of course. But, like, for me, it was just like, okay, I can just. I can do it. You know, I talked to my family, I talked to friends and stuff like that.

I had a second opinion and. And went through all of those steps, but it really was my decision.

Not that it would have necessarily been my husband's decision, but it would have been a lot more complicated. And so, yeah, that's why I said I have a hard time with feelings.

And so for me, it really was a process after the surgery happened, because it happened. It was a really quick process. It was like, I went and saw the surgeon.

She wanted me to have the surgery within, like, two weeks because it was that serious at that point. And so it actually made it a lot easier.

But then just the process of actually going to God with those raw feelings of really, like, you know, like, definitely didn't see this in the picture, you know, when I was 22. But it is what I have.

And so when you talk about, like, reversing my thinking on that, I think, well, one of the things that ironically God has called me to is just to create spaces for family to be family, and so there's a lot tied to that inter with Haven and then with just God's church and God's family. But when it comes to my home, I think about creating a space one day, hopefully where a kid can be invited into that or multiple kids.

I don't know what that's going to look like, you know, but that has been the reverse where, you know, I was a little bit frustrated with God at first. Like, isn't this weird, God, that you've called me to, like, this, all this family stuff, and I don't have a family of my own.

But he's shown me that that calling is not just to my, like, you know, nuclear family. It's actually to the greater family of God. And, yeah, it's. It's where I have to land every time. You know, that's my purpose. That's my calling.

And if that ultimately means that I'm, you know, single for the rest of my life and I don't have my own children, well, then I'm just that much more available to love people, you know, and invite them into God's family. However I can do that, whether that's through my home or into a church or into a community. That's what I'm here for.

I love how you're not only challenging us to reverse our thinking, but you're showing us how you're doing it. And it's beautiful. And so much surrender, so much faith and trust.

And I would imagine that you have moments where it feels pretty vulnerable for you to hope that God's gonna unfold the longings and dreams that you still have for your life. And I think what I want to ask you is because you have this incredible faith in the midst of this, of this story that you have.

And what is it that you are so confident, Carrie, about. About Jesus that gives you hope? When hope has kind of let you down in the past in some ways?

Oh, man. The first thing that comes to mind is I. The hope realize is. Is rested and founded on a God that is good. That is where I have to land every time.

So even in those moments that I'm like, you know, feeling forgotten or like God is this. This is something that you. You even want, you know?

And even getting to that place of surrender, I just have to remind myself that no matter what my story looks like, no matter what is thrown my way, he is good and he will bring good out of it. And I think that has had.

Just.

I love the character of God. I just want to talk about that all day long. Because I think we, We.

We get so stuck on the things that haven't happened or haven't gone quite as well as we thought. And we forget so easily that God is for us, that he wants beautiful things for us and good things for us.

And we kind of just get into this pattern of thinking like, well, who is he, you know, anyway?

Yeah, I love that God is good, and you're resting on that no matter what the story looks like today. And I think about women listening who have hoped and dreamed and planned and expected and those things have not been met.

And I wonder, as we come to a close, what your advice would be for women who are afraid to risk coping again.

I think one of the places that would be good to start is to maybe ask God what his dream is for your life, as hard as that can be, to actually invite him into that and be able to get to a place where you can completely surrender your story. You know, all those things that I've mentioned and, and get. Get into that space where you're dreaming with Him.

I think that's been really helpful for me. But I would say, like, God is. God wants to be with you. God wants to dream up a life and, and help you to see the beauty in your life. Maybe you're.

You're unable to see any of that right now, but God is amazing and he can pull good out of anything. So maybe it's just a matter of just sitting down with him and saying, like, what do you see right now? What do you see that's happening?

And he's not going to ignore the ugly stuff, you know, he's not going to ignore the pain and the disappointment. There's a place for that, too.

But I think he's so good at showing us the beauty, you know, in our stories and how he can use that and that in turns, like, it gives us purpose at the end of the day. So I would say just ask him. Ask him what he sees and how he wants to bring that to your mind constantly, as many times as you can. You know,.

Carrie, thank you so much for hopping on the podcast and sharing your story so honestly and vulnerably and in such a way that we're left with truly wanting to reverse our thinking and engage this good God and ask him what his dreams are for our lives. And you. You gave us so much to ponder on. And I just love who you are, who God's made you to be, and how he's using you to impact lives.

And I appreciate your time being with us.

Thanks, Willow. It's an absolute pleasure to be here with you.

You guys.

For those of you listening, my hope for you is that you will go chasing after that good God and collide with him this week and we will catch you next week.

Thanks for tuning in to keep up with us.

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