Shownotes
What makes a great bartender and why should you care? Gary asks, Bobby, Allison, and Joel answer! The team answer listener questions like how they choose what's on tap, what they drink beyond beer, and the most expensive beer they've tasted.
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TIMELINE
00:00 Welcome!
01:32 The Science of Paint Drying
02:04 Listener Questions: Bartending Tips
08:23 Brewing Styles and Trends
13:12 Creating New Beer Styles
16:42 Favorite Drinks Beyond Beer
17:32 Cost-Prohibitive Beers
19:35 Environmental Impact of Brewing
23:48 Most Expensive Beers
26:00 Overlooked Aspects of McFleshman
30:15 Supoort us on Patreon!
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CREDITS
Hosts:
Joel Hermansen
Music by Sarah Lynn Huss
Recorded & Produced by David Kalsow
Brought to you by McFleshman's Brewing Co
Transcripts
hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Respecting the Beer.
Gary Arndt:My name is Gary, and with me again, we got the usual suspects.
Gary Arndt:We got Mr. Bobby Fleshman, the man who was using a lathe to turn his own lagering tank.
Gary Arndt:We're gonna see how that goes.
Gary Arndt:They used to have wood ones in the past, so maybe something will come of it.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah, it will be solid.
Gary Arndt:And what we learned on our last episode, they were using that in, uh, was it Oshkosh up until like the sixties.
Gary Arndt:They had a wooden tank you said?
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, was it Oshkosh or was it new?
Bobby Fleshman:I think so.
Bobby Fleshman:M Minnesota.
Bobby Fleshman:We went a lot of places on that, but it was recent.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Probably the sixties.
Gary Arndt:Yeah.
Gary Arndt:Also with us, the historian of Hops and the man who is donating $50 to the Mack Fund.
Gary Arndt:Every time a 5, 4, 7 double play is turned.
Gary Arndt:Mr. Joel Hermansen
Joel Hermansen:Hi Gary.
Joel Hermansen:Thanks
Gary Arndt:for that.
Gary Arndt:Appreciate it.
Gary Arndt:And so far you, the amount you've donated is Zero.
Joel Hermansen:Hoping.
Gary Arndt:I'm hoping.
Gary Arndt:And finally, back on the show, Doctor Alison.
Gary Arndt:McCoy Fleshman, who recently gave a presentation to the students of Lawrence University, telling them the ways of Tom Petty and how if they follow him, they too can have a content life
Allison Fleshman:Rock on,
Gary Arndt:Glad to have you back.
Gary Arndt:So
Bobby Fleshman:The waiting,
Allison Fleshman:It's the hardest part.
Bobby Fleshman:What were you talking about exactly?
Bobby Fleshman:We should link, we should link to that talk.
Allison Fleshman:No, we shouldn't.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:I mean, no, she's blushing.
Gary Arndt:What was, what was it about?
Allison Fleshman:The talk was about the science of paint drying.
Allison Fleshman:It's more fascinating than it sounds.
Allison Fleshman:It really is.
Allison Fleshman:Um, no.
Gary Arndt:Today class, we'll be talking about the science of paint drying.
Gary Arndt:A highly exciting, an effervescent subject.
Allison Fleshman:No.
Allison Fleshman:Basically the theme was if, if I can make paint or paint drying fun and exciting and enjoyable and fascinating, like imagine what else can happen.
Joel Hermansen:Woo.
Gary Arndt:Can you?
Allison Fleshman:Yes.
Gary Arndt:Oh, okay.
Allison Fleshman:But more than that, the listeners were very engaged as well.
Allison Fleshman:Like,
Gary Arndt:Well, we have done a great many podcasts.
Gary Arndt:We've been doing this for over a year now, and as such, we get people who send us questions, and we're gonna use this opportunity to have you guys answer some of them.
Gary Arndt:And this comes from Jamie Beer Drinker 72 on Facebook, who asks, I've been a bartender for a little over a decade and recently got promoted to management.
Gary Arndt:What do you look for in a good bartender?
Allison Fleshman:Respecting the beer.
Gary Arndt:I mean, this is, this is, yeah.
Gary Arndt:This is a good question.
Gary Arndt:Mm-hmm.
Gary Arndt:What, and Joel, I think you can chime in on this as, as being a, I certainly can level one cerone.
Joel Hermansen:I, right, right.
Joel Hermansen:Um, I, I've said this a number of times to Allison.
Joel Hermansen:Um, she probably is sick of me talking about it.
Allison Fleshman:I love this.
Allison Fleshman:Keep going.
Joel Hermansen:You know what I'm about to say?
Allison Fleshman:I do know what you're gonna say.
Joel Hermansen:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:So much that I could probably tell the story for you.
Joel Hermansen:Right?
Joel Hermansen:Being here does not feel like work.
Joel Hermansen:This should not be like a job.
Joel Hermansen:This should be a place where you can come and meet people and tell stories and you know, just make a connection with somebody.
Joel Hermansen:I have a goal.
Joel Hermansen:I always try to make one friend every shift, and I think for the most part, I've done that.
Joel Hermansen:Um, so,
Allison Fleshman:because the other day you met like your twin
Joel Hermansen:Yeah, I did.
Joel Hermansen:Yeah.
Joel Hermansen:My twin Mike from Milwaukee.
Bobby Fleshman:And after that happened, you, you made this friend and you, and you sold him on our brand and he walked and Joel walks over to me and says, that was a symphony.
Joel Hermansen:Right, Right.
Joel Hermansen:But at its core, it wasn't a symphony in sales.
Joel Hermansen:No, it wasn't a symphony in pushing the brand.
Joel Hermansen:What it was, it was a symphony in human relations.
Gary Arndt:Mm-hmm.
Gary Arndt:But, you know,
Joel Hermansen:Being a beer tender is about human relations.
Joel Hermansen:You can, you can take the most antisocial, narcissistic person you can find and teach them to pour a beer.
Gary Arndt:Like
Joel Hermansen:me.
Joel Hermansen:Okay?
Joel Hermansen:I don't think you're either of those things.
Joel Hermansen:Oh, I am.
Joel Hermansen:But you, if you can pour a beer and have a great conversation and make somebody feel good, uh, about themselves and make somebody.
Joel Hermansen:You know, uh, feel like they're important.
Joel Hermansen:Mm-hmm.
Joel Hermansen:That, that's really what
Gary Arndt:Joel, I have seen you behind the bar.
Gary Arndt:And people will come up and say like, can I get a mic glow Ultra?
Gary Arndt:And your reaction is very kind.
Gary Arndt:I'm just like, get the fuck out.
Gary Arndt:No beer for you.
Gary Arndt:Bye.
Gary Arndt:Gone.
Gary Arndt:No bye.
Bobby Fleshman:But those who know Joel, they could see the con, the, the conflict inside.
Bobby Fleshman:But to be fair,
Gary Arndt:there has to be a difference between, yes, anybody could potentially learn to pour a beer, but there's a difference between being a Walmart greeter and a public.
Bobby Fleshman:Correct, correct.
Bobby Fleshman:Shall we say?
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah, I was gonna pick that word.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Because we went to England, we were in, uh, Tadcaster and a few other places, but that, that's what it means to me to be a mm-hmm.
Bobby Fleshman:A bartender, you would, might say, yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:But really you're communicating to them on a different level and, and the beer's being in perfect condition, it goes without saying.
Allison Fleshman:Well, and it's really hard 'cause like, depending on the time of day and what day of the week, you know, you can give that kind of deep.
Allison Fleshman:You know, human connection building opportunities, um, in, in small packets on a very busy Saturday or big packets on, you know, a very slow Tuesday, uh, for example.
Allison Fleshman:But I'd like to think that, um, our beer tenders have eyes on two things, the eyes of their customer just to, not, not that they're creep but on 'em or anything, but, you know, make eye contact me when I look at
Bobby Fleshman:their glasses with perfect lacing, they think I'm looking at them,
Allison Fleshman:but like, you know, to have eyes on the beer.
Allison Fleshman:And to make sure that the beer, it's, it's final destination has made its way.
Allison Fleshman:I mean, the, the brewers in the back, they put so much effort and time into getting it to.
Allison Fleshman:The taps, but then it's the beer tender's job to finish, finish the way to get it to the next step.
Bobby Fleshman:There's three parts to this, right?
Bobby Fleshman:The liquid, the ambiance, and the service,
Allison Fleshman:right?
Allison Fleshman:And I'd like to think that, you know, they got eyes on the beer for that, but then they've also got eyes on the customer to make sure that they have what they need.
Allison Fleshman:Whether that's a friend, whether that's a beer, whether that's just a, oh hey, here's a connection, or something like that.
Joel Hermansen:And I think, 'cause we obviously have the first two, we have great beer and you've put together a gorgeous space.
Joel Hermansen:Um, so it's my job to do the last part,
Bobby Fleshman:and that never ends, right?
Bobby Fleshman:We can get the beer established at, for any given batch a month ago before it hits the tap.
Bobby Fleshman:And we built this place seven years ago, but every single day, the service has to happen.
Bobby Fleshman:Recreated, repeated every single day, right?
Bobby Fleshman:Every single interaction, which is why yeah.
Joel Hermansen:And again, I've, I've spoken to Allison about this.
Joel Hermansen:It is best that this not be like someone's, in my opinion, like I'm here 50 hours a week.
Joel Hermansen:You know, this is my sole career here because it is very difficult to replicate that kind of childish enthusiasm that is required.
Joel Hermansen:To doing this successfully if you're here every day from three to 11.
Joel Hermansen:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:That's also a compliment to those who can do that.
Joel Hermansen:Right?
Joel Hermansen:That that is true.
Joel Hermansen:If they can, I, that is more power to 'em.
Joel Hermansen:I, I, I don't know that I could do that, because again, when you set out and you have a goal, and also by the way, we're beer tenders, not bartenders, because Exactly.
Joel Hermansen:I could not make.
Joel Hermansen:Almost any mixed drink.
Joel Hermansen:I only drink beer.
Joel Hermansen:You are not a
Gary Arndt:mixologist.
Gary Arndt:No,
Joel Hermansen:no.
Joel Hermansen:And you've seen me open a bottle of wine
Gary Arndt:that's, that was sad.
Joel Hermansen:Yeah.
Gary Arndt:Yeah.
Gary Arndt:That we won't even talk about that.
Joel Hermansen:There'll be that.
Joel Hermansen:That's on Patreon.
Joel Hermansen:Maybe we could recreate it in the video.
Allison Fleshman:All right.
Allison Fleshman:Should we, should we pick another
Gary Arndt:question?
Gary Arndt:Did the, by the way, did the video of opening that one keg get put up?
Allison Fleshman:Yes, I believe so.
Allison Fleshman:Oh, it has to.
Bobby Fleshman:Oh, the one with the picture.
Bobby Fleshman:We have it now.
Bobby Fleshman:It's there.
Bobby Fleshman:The, the, the My B. Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:That was awesome.
Bobby Fleshman:It it's in the marketing team's hands now.
Allison Fleshman:I thought it was posted that, like that moment.
Bobby Fleshman:Maybe.
Bobby Fleshman:But there's a video too.
Bobby Fleshman:I haven't seen that.
Bobby Fleshman:You mean the video too?
Joel Hermansen:Yeah, that was, I thought that
Bobby Fleshman:was video.
Bobby Fleshman:A brief one.
Allison Fleshman:It was like a, a live, is it a Yeah, yeah,
Bobby Fleshman:yeah, yeah.
Gary Arndt:Either way it's out there.
Gary Arndt:We'll, which
Joel Hermansen:is technically
Gary Arndt:a video.
Gary Arndt:It's on my phone.
Gary Arndt:Yeah.
Gary Arndt:Listener Hazy suck, says, oh,
Joel Hermansen:Bobby, are you submitting questions?
Joel Hermansen:Hey, Hey.
Gary Arndt:How do you choose which styles of beer to brew?
Gary Arndt:Do you just brew the types that interest you personally, or do you try to fill some roles that are underrepresented on the menu board and or the craft beer scene?
Bobby Fleshman:Ooh, good question.
Bobby Fleshman:Boy, that is yes, and yes, we have to brew to our brand, but that needle has to be a little bit flexible.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah,
Allison Fleshman:it took a lot for us to brew a hazy,
Bobby Fleshman:took me a long time to brew that hazy.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:And it's
Joel Hermansen:really good now.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:It's clear that it's here to stay.
Bobby Fleshman:It's clear that it's here to stay for the industry and for us.
Bobby Fleshman:Um, but let me back up a bit.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Why,
Gary Arndt:why was this such a, a mental hurdle that had to be overcome?
Joel Hermansen:Right.
Joel Hermansen:Bobby's a traditionalist.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:So Hazy are a recent brand, a recent style,
Bobby Fleshman:uh, yeah, about, I would say, let's, let's go as far back as 2010, if you really wanna dig deep.
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, it happened in New England.
Bobby Fleshman:Somebody made this beer with no bitterness, ridiculous amount of hops.
Bobby Fleshman:It looked terrible.
Bobby Fleshman:Heady Topper made it really famous.
Bobby Fleshman:And, uh, the Alchemist, uh, they decided that you should have to drink it out of the can because it was so ugly.
Bobby Fleshman:Until one, but tasted awesome.
Bobby Fleshman:But then it, then it started to get poured out and people thought they, they became acclimated to it.
Bobby Fleshman:And so the hazy IPA was born is this heady top where you're talking Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:And it's no, it's no turning back.
Bobby Fleshman:Now it's the genie out of the bottle.
Bobby Fleshman:And, and to the point now not to go off on a different topic, but when you order an IPA, the world is almost inverted.
Bobby Fleshman:If it's not hazy, people are a little bit concerned.
Bobby Fleshman:About it.
Bobby Fleshman:And it's, it's really an odd world.
Bobby Fleshman:This beer is too pure.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:This beer is where is the haze.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:And we drink with our eyes and it's, it's really, uh, strange to live in that world.
Bobby Fleshman:But, um, as to our brand, we obsess about it.
Bobby Fleshman:We, we, we, we created how many styles on our, on our trip to wherever it was to get to backward.
Bobby Fleshman:Oh, to Cincinnati.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:We thought this is what we're gonna do.
Bobby Fleshman:And you know, by and large those have all come true.
Bobby Fleshman:Um, but there have been some ands and we've added taps to accommodate.
Allison Fleshman:Well, and it's really hard to, like, you're stuck in the middle between, it's not a traditional brand, as in, it's not, you know, from the old English styles or the German styles.
Allison Fleshman:Um, but we also are a community space, and so we wanna.
Allison Fleshman:Build this place organically to what Appleton wants.
Allison Fleshman:And if most of the people who want to drink hazy, it's ridiculously irresponsible of us to not listen to them.
Bobby Fleshman:And that's a style thing.
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, there's also dietary issues.
Bobby Fleshman:People are looking at gluten-free.
Bobby Fleshman:They're looking at alcohol free or low alcohol.
Bobby Fleshman:They're looking at, um, any additive whatsoever, free citric acid, and so on and so on.
Bobby Fleshman:So we're trying to, to navigate.
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, dietary issues rather than just flavor preferences as well.
Bobby Fleshman:So that for me has been way more challenging than did we brew a hazy.
Bobby Fleshman:The question from the, what keeps me up at night is, uh, seltzers and we've talked about this before, and THC infused beverage, and now we're thinking about kombucha and it just goes on and on and on because we're trying to satisfy a different, uh, dietary need as opposed to just flavors, but.
Bobby Fleshman:You have to, you have to have a brand, in my opinion, this is me and my soapbox.
Bobby Fleshman:You have to have a brand and it has to guide you somehow.
Bobby Fleshman:It may have to be flexible.
Bobby Fleshman:I think that depends on who you are respecting.
Gary Arndt:The kombucha will be coming to a podcast player you in 2026.
Gary Arndt:I like that.
Gary Arndt:Uh, let me then ask you, what, is there a style of beer you have not brewed that you'd like to?
Bobby Fleshman:Oh, so many Belgian beers.
Bobby Fleshman:Best say the Belgians, but we're playing in Belgian right now.
Bobby Fleshman:We have a Cison on tap.
Bobby Fleshman:We have a triple.
Bobby Fleshman:Can I announce this?
Bobby Fleshman:Have I already announced this?
Bobby Fleshman:Have we?
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, it's
Joel Hermansen:your bar.
Joel Hermansen:So yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Belgian Triple.
Bobby Fleshman:Have
Allison Fleshman:we done a Dortmund?
Bobby Fleshman:But the Belgian triple's coming out for, only for people that support this podcast.
Bobby Fleshman:Oh, the Patreon.
Bobby Fleshman:Oh,
Allison Fleshman:well there we go.
Bobby Fleshman:So we're kind of thinking about maybe Belgian beers becoming.
Bobby Fleshman:What we do for those supporters, but we don't wanna pigeonhole them either.
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, anything else that, that you think of?
Bobby Fleshman:A Dortmund.
Bobby Fleshman:A Dortmund.
Allison Fleshman:We have it.
Allison Fleshman:Dortmund
Bobby Fleshman:is the very first beer I ever brewed.
Bobby Fleshman:Are you trying to rub that in?
Bobby Fleshman:That's the one.
Bobby Fleshman:Wait, was that the one where you That's the one left out,
Allison Fleshman:the half the ingredients?
Allison Fleshman:Yep.
Allison Fleshman:I've
Bobby Fleshman:never come back to it.
Bobby Fleshman:That's so funny.
Bobby Fleshman:So that I, I've told it before on this podcast, one of my, it was my very first home brew batch.
Bobby Fleshman:I left you, you recorded yourself with
Allison Fleshman:a video camera watch.
Allison Fleshman:Oh yeah.
Allison Fleshman:I've got a video of this.
Bobby Fleshman:It's out there.
Bobby Fleshman:We gotta find it.
Bobby Fleshman:Oh
Joel Hermansen:my gosh.
Joel Hermansen:Patreon,
Bobby Fleshman:it's out there.
Bobby Fleshman:I've never watched it.
Bobby Fleshman:It's on Will of thoses little stupid cassettes.
Bobby Fleshman:We've gotta find somebody.
Bobby Fleshman:You can take that and do something with it, Gary.
Bobby Fleshman:This is from 20 years ago in the technology of the, Gary's got the tech digital Ca Cass we're, yeah.
Allison Fleshman:Well there's also eBay.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:It's not hard.
Allison Fleshman:We can, yeah, we can figure this out.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Gary Arndt:Well, we just
Bobby Fleshman:did.
Gary Arndt:Gary's sitting right here, and then I got a question of my own.
Gary Arndt:So all your beers are of some style.
Gary Arndt:You got your pilsners, your laggers, your ales, your stouts hybrids, and can you make a beer that is of a completely new style?
Gary Arndt:Could you invent your own category of beer?
Gary Arndt:Did actually.
Bobby Fleshman:That's, well, that's where Hazy came from, and that's where Brutes came from before us.
Bobby Fleshman:Your
Allison Fleshman:Irish blonde.
Bobby Fleshman:Irish blonde is probably original.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Um, first of all, Irish blonde.
Bobby Fleshman:Is that a thing in real life or beer wise?
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:I don't, but yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:But the foam's not the same color as the Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:But if someone were to say, create something that no one has ever created, I, I don't know.
Bobby Fleshman:I don't, I don't think it's how you create beers.
Bobby Fleshman:I don't think that.
Bobby Fleshman:That's the goal.
Bobby Fleshman:I think it's, it's a consequence.
Bobby Fleshman:I think that you, you just follow your nose and I, I've never thought about that question.
Bobby Fleshman:That's great.
Bobby Fleshman:You got me on my heels here.
Allison Fleshman:A lot of times you, you've, we've made a beer and then like 5, 4, 7, for instance.
Allison Fleshman:It's really hard for us to send that to competition because it's.
Allison Fleshman:It's too heavy to be a West Coast IPA, but it's also too light to be a double IPA or an Imperial ipa.
Allison Fleshman:Like it fits.
Bobby Fleshman:It fits well in the imperial.
Bobby Fleshman:Does it?
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah, because we've
Allison Fleshman:had, we've struggled with that in the past.
Bobby Fleshman:Wisconsin, IPA.
Allison Fleshman:Oh, there we go.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah,
Bobby Fleshman:Midwest IPA.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:But it's really not and that's, so, I don't know Gary, that's gonna be a whole podcast.
Bobby Fleshman:You're got be thinking about this one.
Bobby Fleshman:Creating a whole new beer.
Gary Arndt:I mean, like, I mean obviously I don't, I don't know it as well as you, but it seems like, you know, the IPA craze was like, oh, put more hops in, and then people were putting more hops in and then they kind of, they took things kind of in a linear progression.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Gary Arndt:Is there a way you could.
Gary Arndt:Take it in a different direction or put hops in something else, or, I don't know.
Gary Arndt:I mean, well,
Bobby Fleshman:uh, man, it's like all, all of the plays have been written and all the songs have been written and I, I feel like that no matter what we do, we're gonna be brushed up against somebody else's creation.
Bobby Fleshman:I've been thinking about a, a, uh, an imperial brute IPA that is a barrel age imperial brute, IPA, that would be.
Bobby Fleshman:Really interesting.
Bobby Fleshman:To me, that's like a basically of the strength of wine, of the dryness of wine.
Bobby Fleshman:Picking up the tannins of oak.
Bobby Fleshman:I feel like there's something there.
Bobby Fleshman:So that's a beer I've been thinking about for a while.
Bobby Fleshman:That sounds
Allison Fleshman:like the still lambic that we had at Won't be Sour City Beer, but Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:In otherwise San Francisco.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Allison Fleshman:That was the most amazing beer.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:It'd
Bobby Fleshman:be kind of in that line.
Bobby Fleshman:But anyway, so I'm taking inspiration from winemakers there.
Bobby Fleshman:I'm taking inspiration from IPA makers, uh, barrel age beer people.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah, there's a million of those that bounce around in my head.
Bobby Fleshman:But that's a really great question.
Bobby Fleshman:I don't think your goal should be, let's create a new style.
Bobby Fleshman:I think it has to just kind of fall out in the process.
Bobby Fleshman:Well then, let's say you accidentally did.
Bobby Fleshman:How would you know the writers tell you and then somebody puts you on the cover of magazine.
Bobby Fleshman:Someone copies you, you need someone to copy you, you embrace your first, so
Allison Fleshman:you would try and follower, well, probably you would try see if it the, if the, if the outcome matches any of the styles.
Allison Fleshman:And if it doesn't Oh, I
Bobby Fleshman:see.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah, that's attention.
Bobby Fleshman:How do you know that it's in new style?
Bobby Fleshman:That's your mm-hmm.
Bobby Fleshman:I'm just saying if you did it and you're, and you accidentally stumbled on a new style, the rider will tell you that and then all the beer fans will line up around the block.
Bobby Fleshman:So someday maybe.
Bobby Fleshman:So
Allison Fleshman:why don't we do that?
Allison Fleshman:Then
Bobby Fleshman:we do a, we do a rye age dopple B that I've never heard of before.
Bobby Fleshman:So that in and of itself is a riff on a, an existing style.
Bobby Fleshman:But yeah.
Gary Arndt:Mindy asks, do you like drinking things other than beer?
Gary Arndt:So what?
Joel Hermansen:I don't Yeah, this isn't for you.
Joel Hermansen:We
Allison Fleshman:Coffee
Bobby Fleshman:Scotch.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Smokier the better I'm into it.
Allison Fleshman:More acidic the better.
Allison Fleshman:Ya for ya for coffee.
Bobby Fleshman:Simple answers.
Gary Arndt:Yeah.
Gary Arndt:So just there's no alcohol that you would drink?
Allison Fleshman:You know, every once in a while, Bobby and I, I'll, well, Bobby won't, I'll get a bottle of wine and I'll open it up and we're like, Hey, what do you think of this?
Allison Fleshman:Um, in the last two, I think we didn't drink the rest of it's cheaper wine.
Bobby Fleshman:It wasn't good.
Allison Fleshman:Um,
Bobby Fleshman:wasn't well, was it in a box?
Bobby Fleshman:No.
Allison Fleshman:Although box wines wasn't a high C pouch pretty good.
Allison Fleshman:Like the wine, you know, the sealed bags,
Joel Hermansen:Was it a beat box?
Allison Fleshman:It was not.
Allison Fleshman:A beat box would use your beer in a box.
Allison Fleshman:, Gary Arndt: Sam asks.
Allison Fleshman:What beer would you love to make regularly but is just crazy, cost prohibitive?
Bobby Fleshman:Cost prohibitive?
Allison Fleshman:A square mile.
Bobby Fleshman:That's not cost prohibitive.
Allison Fleshman:Well, it is 'cause we don't sell it very well.
Allison Fleshman:Well, okay.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Gary Arndt:What is, I don't think I've ever seen that on the movie.
Bobby Fleshman:If it doesn't move, I guess it's,
Joel Hermansen:it's one of Chad Van Lanning's favorite piece.
Allison Fleshman:It's such a good beer.
Allison Fleshman:It is a, uh, English, uh, oatmeal stout.
Bobby Fleshman:So it, it has this, this following of like 2% of our, of our clientele,
Allison Fleshman:Me and Chad.
Bobby Fleshman:And they are really, really excited about it.
Allison Fleshman:It's so good.
Allison Fleshman:But they're just 2% of our client.
Allison Fleshman:It is, it is traditional cask conditioned ale.
Bobby Fleshman:It's cask and I, I do, I myself, I love it too.
Allison Fleshman:Low ABV.
Bobby Fleshman:It's a 3% oatmeal stout.
Bobby Fleshman:It's really good.
Bobby Fleshman:But, you know, what do you with that?
Allison Fleshman:But mild angel scores above it.
Allison Fleshman:So we normally give that
Bobby Fleshman:They're, they're kind of on two sides of the same coin.
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, cost prohibitive, though,
Gary Arndt:I'm guessing with cost.
Gary Arndt:It's probably gonna come in the, the way of putting in a barrel for a long time.
Gary Arndt:That's gerr or lagering or something.
Bobby Fleshman:It's Gertrude.
Bobby Fleshman:Well, I wish we could make that a bigger thing that we do.
Bobby Fleshman:It is extremely expensive to make.
Bobby Fleshman:That's our, uh, rye age doppelbach aged in wine barrels, frozen iced and all that.
Allison Fleshman:She's not rye aged, is she?
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:She starts in a rye barrel.
Bobby Fleshman:I didn't know that, but short age.
Bobby Fleshman:Okay, so we don't go in nine months, go like three months.
Bobby Fleshman:No.
Bobby Fleshman:And then it hits the ice, but, but it's
Allison Fleshman:not ice.
Allison Fleshman:Bing.
Allison Fleshman:Triple Deba.
Allison Fleshman:Your rye, it's ice.
Allison Fleshman:Bing, triple Deba, Dopple, Bach, right?
Bobby Fleshman:No, it's deba.
Bobby Fleshman:Your rye just instead of nine months is three months.
Bobby Fleshman:Okay, so effectively it's the same beer, huh?
Bobby Fleshman:But you think about it.
Bobby Fleshman:I know it's something new every day.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:You think about it, it's uh, all this.
Bobby Fleshman:Mobilization of liquid.
Bobby Fleshman:At the end of the day, you end up with two cgs of it.
Bobby Fleshman:It's so much, and it's why it's our white whale.
Bobby Fleshman:Maybe that in that sense, we shouldn't brew it too much, but
Joel Hermansen:people love it when you put it out there, oh my gosh, you gotta
Bobby Fleshman:make it, you gotta keep it a white whale.
Bobby Fleshman:So that, that might be the one.
Bobby Fleshman:I'd love to see that one scale up at some point in the future, but the, the demand and, and the FOMO have to sort of grow, you know, at the same time.
Gary Arndt:This one comes from Isabella.
Gary Arndt:You guys care about the environmental impact of your brewing, but why aren't bigger breweries doing anything?
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, big brewers care a lot about the environment, not because they care about the environment, but because it, it matters to their bottom line.
Gary Arndt:They care about people caring about the environment.
Bobby Fleshman:Well, that and Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Well, but also efficiency's sake.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Gary Arndt:Well, what are some of the things like you guys do?
Joel Hermansen:Sierra Nevada puts more energy into the local Yeah.
Joel Hermansen:power company than they take out They have, yeah.
Joel Hermansen:Mm-hmm.
Joel Hermansen:The entire facility.
Bobby Fleshman:We're not talking about those guys.
Bobby Fleshman:We're talking about the capital.
Bobby Fleshman:Big guys.
Bobby Fleshman:The big one, right?
Bobby Fleshman:We're talking about Bud, Miller, Coors.
Joel Hermansen:Yeah.
Joel Hermansen:I don't know what they're doing.
Bobby Fleshman:Well, they're, they're, they're being green and they're being, uh, stewards of the environment, but only because it matters to the bottom line, whether it's the marketing side, but really, like I said, they a penny's off of the expense.
Bobby Fleshman:Sometimes doing things the greenway means you're doing it the economical way.
Bobby Fleshman:It's more efficient at the end of the day, so they invest in these projects to save money, not because it's saving the earth.
Bobby Fleshman:Sorry about that.
Bobby Fleshman:But I mean, I, I talk, I talk highly of Budweiser and the others in terms of quality, but in this case, I'm not really sure they're thinking about the planet.
Bobby Fleshman:But I don't mean to, to.
Bobby Fleshman:To, to go down that path too much.
Bobby Fleshman:The, the brewers there are amazing and, and they, they exist sort of alongside and parallel to the, the people that run those companies.
Bobby Fleshman:Um.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah, but I will say this, I've taken students to see Miller down here in Milwaukee, and they've gotten, they, they've shown us behind the curtain and it's pretty amazing what they do.
Bobby Fleshman:No matter how they got there.
Bobby Fleshman:They're doing things extremely, uh, responsibly for the environment.
Bobby Fleshman:I even joke that if there were to be a nuclear reactor installed in any brewery, it would be installed in Milwaukee, at the Miller Brewing Company because it makes sense.
Bobby Fleshman:So, yeah, we care about, you know, on this little scale, we can't really do well by the environment.
Bobby Fleshman:So even though I'm beating my chest about how good we are, we're not as good as those guys.
Bobby Fleshman:They're much more, they're better for the environment because of their scale.
Bobby Fleshman:And, what we do try to look at, we try to recreate the whole concept of say, packaging.
Bobby Fleshman:And we don't use plastic whenever we can avoid it.
Bobby Fleshman:'cause that's never going away.
Bobby Fleshman:We are looking at, you know, Central Waters has done fantastic stuff with solar energy.
Bobby Fleshman:Rigs Brewing Company, we interviewed a few weeks ago Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:In Illinois.
Bobby Fleshman:And they've done great things with solar.
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, the little guys are doing things out there thinking about both the packaging stream and, and the energy usage.
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, when we opened this place, we almost plugged into the grid with an electric boiler to make steam, but they would've taken 100% of the available power to do so.
Bobby Fleshman:So we're waiting for those technologies to scale down, to become accessible for us.
Bobby Fleshman:Um, yeah, we obsess about this stuff and I think we do it from the heart, but it does affect our bottom line in a positive way if we can put our toe on those waters.
Gary Arndt:In theory, a big if small modular reactors come out.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Gary Arndt:The brewery could have a new brewery.
Allison Fleshman:My God, Mr. Fusion.
Allison Fleshman:That's where the grain could go.
Bobby Fleshman:Oh yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Oh yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:That would be fantastic.
Bobby Fleshman:Shove all our spin grain into it.
Bobby Fleshman:Oh, let's take a two second moment to talk about Alaskan Brewing Company, which wasn't anywhere near the grid, so to speak.
Bobby Fleshman:So they had to end up taking their spent grain to feed their boiler or their, what was it called?
Bobby Fleshman:The co-generation system.
Bobby Fleshman:Um.
Bobby Fleshman:It was actually powering an, an electric generator and the heat that was produced obviously had, uh, utility in, in the brewery.
Bobby Fleshman:What I'm trying to say is that you, they're off the grid now because they had to be, there was no grid to connect to with Alaska.
Allison Fleshman:This is the Alaska Brewing Alaska, Juneau,
Bobby Fleshman:Alaska In Juneau.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, are they in Juno or?
Allison Fleshman:Pretty sure.
Bobby Fleshman:Okay.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Kind of way out in the middle of nowhere.
Bobby Fleshman:And they were like, they were moving their spent grain back to wherever they, who would ever would take it.
Bobby Fleshman:And they ran the numbers.
Bobby Fleshman:They said, let's just burn this stuff and create a co-generation system.
Bobby Fleshman:So when you're talking about green breweries, they should be in that conversation.
Bobby Fleshman:But so should, so should, uh, New Glarus and so should, uh, Central Waters and obviously Sierra Nevada is, is Mecca.
Gary Arndt:Jimmy, VVVS, what is the most expensive bottle of beer you have ever had?
Bobby Fleshman:Would it be that that lambic?
Allison Fleshman:It's either, so we, we go to, I don't even know if city, city beer, city beer and San Francisco.
Allison Fleshman:They rest.
Allison Fleshman:Peace.
Allison Fleshman:They close
Bobby Fleshman:another one of those casualties.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:So the bottle cost, uh, well, we've also had Utopia.
Bobby Fleshman:Well, that's true.
Bobby Fleshman:Carl was his name.
Bobby Fleshman:Mm-hmm.
Bobby Fleshman:He is a beer collector here in the Fox Valley and he shared it with us.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:We never had to buy one of those.
Allison Fleshman:No, we didn't buy it.
Allison Fleshman:But I think the, they're shaped like a little beer kettle.
Allison Fleshman:Would
Bobby Fleshman:that.
Bobby Fleshman:They're probably off the shelf now.
Bobby Fleshman:This is the thing off the shelf.
Bobby Fleshman:They're like 150 to 200 bucks and they're like a two liter, they, they're shaped like a copper.
Allison Fleshman:It comes in a little copper still.
Bobby Fleshman:It's a copper brew kettle.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:A little miniaturized.
Bobby Fleshman:But, but on the, but this is where it gets interesting in the secondary market.
Bobby Fleshman:Who knows?
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:And who knows what he paid.
Bobby Fleshman:But um, yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:But
Allison Fleshman:then we had, um, a still lambic from, um, oh my God, how am I blanking on the name?
Allison Fleshman:Uh, Canone.
Allison Fleshman:Canone.
Allison Fleshman:Yep.
Allison Fleshman:Um, I almost said Carcassone, but I was like, no, that's a game Carcassone.
Allison Fleshman:Um, but no, uh, Canone.
Allison Fleshman:Um, and I wanna say we spent $80 on it, but then we shared it with the bar.
Allison Fleshman:I think it was over a
Bobby Fleshman:hun, maybe 90 or a hundred.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah, it was in that neighborhood.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:Um, but yeah, and, and we
Bobby Fleshman:gave it to all the, the bard.
Bobby Fleshman:All the bartend, the bartenders and people helping all Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:We let them
Allison Fleshman:sample it with us.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:But yeah, it was a still lambic, um, no, no blend, no congregation, no blend.
Allison Fleshman:Single barrel.
Bobby Fleshman:Yep.
Allison Fleshman:Um, lambic beer.
Allison Fleshman:And it was in a charna barrel.
Allison Fleshman:It sounds like a scotch.
Allison Fleshman:It was, it sort of was remark.
Allison Fleshman:The reason
Bobby Fleshman:they released it is because it was so on its own.
Bobby Fleshman:So, so interesting.
Bobby Fleshman:Normally you blend lambic like you do wines.
Bobby Fleshman:All by itself.
Bobby Fleshman:There's something
Allison Fleshman:about like, when you drink a carbonated beverage, there's something about like the carbonation is, is gonna help some of those little molecules go up your nose once it goes in your mouth and such.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:But this took all that out, so it was just pure taste of this beer.
Gary Arndt:And where, where did you have this?
Bobby Fleshman:It's beer.
Bobby Fleshman:It was called, uh, it was a bottle City Beer Company in, uh, San Francisco.
Bobby Fleshman:And they were the best bottle shop in town.
Bobby Fleshman:Probably one of the best in the nation, but I think they since closed.
Gary Arndt:Alright, and this will be our last question.
Gary Arndt:Yep.
Gary Arndt:This comes from Mary who asks, what is your favorite part of Mc Fleshman that you think is usually overlooked?
Bobby Fleshman:Oh, I'll let Allison take it.
Bobby Fleshman:I've been talking too much.
Allison Fleshman:My favorite part of Mc Fleshman that I think is usually overlooked.
Allison Fleshman:Oh gosh.
Allison Fleshman:Oh, that's tough.
Allison Fleshman:Um, uh, oh, I know exactly what it is on the side of, um.
Allison Fleshman:You're walking towards the bathrooms and there is a spot between where the bar ends and the door just to the, what is that?
Allison Fleshman:The, um, to the left or the right of the door.
Allison Fleshman:As you're facing the door, there is a piece of wood.
Allison Fleshman:That we have marked our daughter's height.
Joel Hermansen:Aw.
Allison Fleshman:And so every birthday we like scrape into this.
Allison Fleshman:And it's, you know, the, the, the corner post.
Gary Arndt:I've never noticed that.
Gary Arndt:There you go.
Gary Arndt:And so you can, everybody's bought by 12 as you walk by the bathroom 12 times when
Allison Fleshman:they're here.
Allison Fleshman:Like when you're walking towards the bathroom, look on your left and there will be into the trim in the back.
Bobby Fleshman:We have one steel column that holds the entire production, uh, area up.
Bobby Fleshman:It's the biggest piece of steel in the building.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:So that's a very, and it's marked there too.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:It's a very
Allison Fleshman:personal, that's my favorite.
Allison Fleshman:That nobody notices.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:But it's, it's right there.
Allison Fleshman:Um,
Bobby Fleshman:few people have, and they've, they said you better start adding to that trim because she's gonna exceed the height of that, of that chair rail.
Allison Fleshman:She doesn't have far to go.
Allison Fleshman:I'm a very short person.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:But what about the other?
Allison Fleshman:What do you, Joel?
Joel Hermansen:My a hundred percent mine is you.
Joel Hermansen:I know.
Joel Hermansen:You know what I'm about to say?
Joel Hermansen:When we close
Bobby Fleshman:that guitar on the wall,
Joel Hermansen:Nope,
Bobby Fleshman:Nope?
Joel Hermansen:Nope.
Joel Hermansen:When we close and I get everything cleaned up.
Joel Hermansen:Oh yeah.
Joel Hermansen:And I turn off the lights.
Joel Hermansen:I always, a hundred percent of the time, I have actually sat there for as long as a half hour.
Joel Hermansen:It's almost meditative.
Joel Hermansen:I'll sit on the stairs.
Joel Hermansen:The only thing that's happening in the tap room is the ambient light from the cooler where you can get the tego beer and then the backlighting of the back bar of the beautiful stained glass.
Joel Hermansen:Yeah.
Joel Hermansen:And I will sometimes sit there and just think about what I have to do tomorrow.
Joel Hermansen:I might think about, you know, a, a big decision that I, that I have to make and the not everybody obviously gets to see that.
Joel Hermansen:Mm-hmm.
Joel Hermansen:I do.
Joel Hermansen:So I, I guess it, yeah, fits the dynamic of being overlooked, but it is magical.
Bobby Fleshman:It really is the soul of the brewery in so many ways.
Bobby Fleshman:'cause it's around that is where all the conversations happen.
Bobby Fleshman:And that light has been turned off accidentally by some new employees at the end of a shift.
Bobby Fleshman:'cause it's one of the switches on the wall.
Bobby Fleshman:But in general, that light's never, ever off well and that's so big.
Bobby Fleshman:So if you ever walk into the room with it off, you can feel the soul of the brewery having been removed, it's hard to, it's very weird.
Allison Fleshman:See the light off.
Allison Fleshman:It really is.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Gary Arndt:How do you change the bulb?
Bobby Fleshman:Behind it.
Bobby Fleshman:It's, it's all built with, there's an access panel with poles.
Bobby Fleshman:There's access panels behind the entire back.
Bobby Fleshman:An D bulb.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, yeah, for sure.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah, that's the whole stick we have.
Bobby Fleshman:We have LEDs
Allison Fleshman:hanging, but then there's two big, um, I've had to like pull it back up.
Allison Fleshman:There's an incandescent that we have screwed in.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah, I know.
Bobby Fleshman:It's actually, there's two fixtures there, but, but yeah, the only reason this works is because of LED, because when that, when we bought that bar, it was built into a house that had this giant room behind it because it had to fan away all this incandescent heating.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah, I guess that's true because it had to shine through that light.
Bobby Fleshman:But now LEDs changed a lot, but
Allison Fleshman:Yeah, right above the back bar.
Allison Fleshman:There's this little kind of, um, three quarter height, uh, room storage area, call it the In Between.
Allison Fleshman:Um, and so you can climb back there or the Papst Lounge where we eventually gonna put a couch anyway and you can climb back and see the back of the back bar.
Allison Fleshman:Um, and so that's where there's a about,
Joel Hermansen:and I never, I never have a beer while I'm sitting there.
Joel Hermansen:Just,
Gary Arndt:and by the way, just a business tip from, from me to you guys.
Gary Arndt:Next time Joel asks for a raise, use this episode and say, well, you said here, you don't even consider this a job, Joel, and this is the highlight of your day.
Gary Arndt:So I think that,
Gary Arndt:just, just a tip,
Joel Hermansen:David, can we, this is how the big moguls operate, some editing of this.
Gary Arndt:That concludes this episode of respecting the beer.
Gary Arndt:The producer of Respecting the Beer is David Kalsow, without David, there would be no show.
Gary Arndt:Make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player, so you'll never miss an episode.
Gary Arndt:And if you would like to ask a question for our next question and answer episode, join the Facebook group so you can get updates and ask a question when it's submitted.
Gary Arndt:And you can also support the show over on Patreon where we have all sorts of good stuff that are being put up, including a video of Bobby making his very first beer.
Gary Arndt:Oh gosh, links to both of these are in the show notes.
Gary Arndt:And until next time, please remember to respect the beer.
