Welcome to Elements of Community!
I am your host, Lucas Root, and in this episode, we are going to talk about the real estate professionals seeking their zone of genius. Joining me in this episode is Zach Hammer the founder of Real Estate Growth Hackers—a marketing consulting agency that brings cutting-edge marketing tactics from the top modern marketers to the real estate community. Zach teaches real estate agents, teams, and brokerages how to generate an endless supply of leads on demand. Offering services that make the process simple.
Zach’s community is composed of a lot of people but he focuses most of his attention and effort on helping real estate agents in being successful with their marketing, defining who they're looking to reach, and getting that message out effectively to the market. Which also translates to their zone of genius.
Along the process, he finds that mortgage professionals, Title folks, and software companies that serve the real estate space often find value in connecting with the kind of information he puts out. His community is now larger than ever. And it’s for those real estate professionals that are in this current world of real estate.
One of the key ideas here is, “People will always rally behind those who throw stones at their enemies.” If you understand who somebody's enemies are, and help them to fight those enemies, that's a great way to bring together a group of people to rally behind you.
Bringing together people under the same direction is what an effective community is about. It's a group of people coming together and moving forward in a consistent direction. And as a result, they have the same troubles, enemies, and the same ideas.
If you want to know more about Zach Hammer, you may reach out to him at:
Welcome to Elements of Community Podcast about
Lucas Root:discovering and exploring the elements of community. I am
Lucas Root:Lucas Root, and each week we talk with a community leader
Lucas Root:about what makes their community thrive and bring value to both
Lucas Root:the leaders and the members join me as we unpack the magic of the
Lucas Root:Elements of Community.
Lucas Root:We're live with elements of community. Zach, thank you so
Lucas Root:much for joining me can you lead off by telling the audience a
Lucas Root:little bit about yourself?
Zach Hammer:Yeah, so my name is Zach Hammer I am the founder I
Zach Hammer:call myself the chief bottle washer at a Real Estate Growth
Zach Hammer:Hackers, where that comes from ultimately. So the title is
Zach Hammer:basically I believe in servant leadership and as the founder of
Zach Hammer:Real Estate Growth Hackers, the chief bottle washer, I
Zach Hammer:ultimately get done whatever needs to be done. It's kind of
Zach Hammer:the idea there, where Real Estate Growth Hackers came from
Zach Hammer:is a really long journey, I actually started my career life
Zach Hammer:seeking to be a pastor, I went to Bible college and eventuallhy
Zach Hammer:trained to be a preacher. But ultimately felt called a
Zach Hammer:different directions. I dabbled in some MLM stuff, which led to
Zach Hammer:learning a lot of marketing, learning marketing, I found a
Zach Hammer:real passion for and ended up taking a job as a marketing
Zach Hammer:director for a real estate team. While I was there, we doubled in
Zach Hammer:business every year that I was there, I 5x, their lead flow and
Zach Hammer:cut their cost per lead in half. But I am a horrible employee,
Zach Hammer:I've been an entrepreneur at heart. And so I set out
Zach Hammer:leveraging the information that I learned there I that I
Zach Hammer:developed there, with agents all across the country, and that's
Zach Hammer:where Real Estate Growth Hackers came from. It shifted and
Zach Hammer:changed over the years from saying yes to any and every
Zach Hammer:project that sort of came up into ultimately, today, I'm more
Zach Hammer:focused in teaching and training in order to help enable people
Zach Hammer:to do the kinds of things that we learned and developed over
Zach Hammer:the years. So that's kind of where we are today.
Lucas Root:I love it. So we got a nice little chat before we got
Lucas Root:started. And we got to come up with a tagline for your
Lucas Root:community. You want to share that?
Zach Hammer:Forgive me I am horrible with specific, scripted
Zach Hammer:stuff. But yeah, so what we look to do is we are helping enable
Zach Hammer:real estate professionals to achieve their goals and dreams,
Zach Hammer:especially in light of the technology that's coming into
Zach Hammer:the space that essentially seeks to say that the real estate
Zach Hammer:agent has no value. The real estate profession has no value,
Zach Hammer:we're standing up and saying, where are we valuable? How can
Zach Hammer:we get that out to the market effectively? And how can we
Zach Hammer:still really provide value to the market that needs help with
Zach Hammer:real estate transactions and their real estate life?
Lucas Root:Hmm, I love it. May I offer a line for you?
Zach Hammer:Yeah, absolutely.
Lucas Root:Real Estate Professionals Seeking their Zone
Lucas Root:of Genius.
Zach Hammer:Real estate professionals seeking their zone
Zach Hammer:of genius, I like it!
Lucas Root:I think that's fantastic. I love it. Um, tell
Lucas Root:me more about the community.
Zach Hammer:Yeah, so my community is comprised of a lot
Zach Hammer:of people, I have this general belief that if you have a pretty
Zach Hammer:clear focus on who you're seeking to help, a very clear
Zach Hammer:and direct target that often, that information applies to a
Zach Hammer:wider group of people as well. So it's actually a trick that I
Zach Hammer:learned when preaching, if you want to make everyone feel like
Zach Hammer:you're making eye contact with them, when you're up on stage,
Zach Hammer:and you're speaking to them, what you do is you don't look at
Zach Hammer:a group of people, you look at individuals, you look at one
Zach Hammer:person and you make very clear direct eye contact, but what's
Zach Hammer:interesting is everybody around them feels like you're looking
Zach Hammer:directly at them as well. Whereas if you just look at kind
Zach Hammer:of a general group of people.
Lucas Root:That's a great trick.
Zach Hammer:Yeah, if you're just looking at a general group
Zach Hammer:of people, nobody feels like you're making eye contact with
Zach Hammer:them. And so nobody feels like they're actually being paid
Zach Hammer:attention to and so when you do the same thing your marketing or
Zach Hammer:with your targeting the same idea can can happen. So where I
Zach Hammer:focus most of my attention and effort is in helping the real
Zach Hammer:estate agent and in being successful with their marketing
Zach Hammer:defining who they're looking to reach, like you said, what their
Zach Hammer:zone of genius is, and getting that message out effectively to
Zach Hammer:the market and in doing so, I also find that that information
Zach Hammer:is really helpful to other people as well. Mortgage
Zach Hammer:professionals, Title folks, software companies that serve
Zach Hammer:the real estate space often find value in connecting with the
Zach Hammer:kind of information that I put out. And so the community is
Zach Hammer:larger than who I am, maybe directly focused on creating
Zach Hammer:content and help and training for. And it's really any of
Zach Hammer:those real estate professionals that are kind of in this curren
Zach Hammer:world of real estate.
Lucas Root:I love it. That's fantastic, that trick of like
Lucas Root:making actual eye contact is fantastic. That's the opposite
Lucas Root:of what I've heard before.
Zach Hammer:Right.
Lucas Root:But it makes so much sense.
Zach Hammer:Right. It's literally something that you
Zach Hammer:could test, you get up on stage and ask people you do the trick
Zach Hammer:of saying, hey, I only an eye contact with one specific
Zach Hammer:person. And who thinks I was looking at them. Versus if you
Zach Hammer:look at a group of people who thinks I was looking at them.
Zach Hammer:And yeah, you can run the test, it's kind of an interesting
Zach Hammer:thing to see the result of.
Lucas Root:It makes perfect sense. So you're a trained
Lucas Root:preacher, you've built at least one really successful community.
Lucas Root:So you have some thoughts on sort of what makes a community
Lucas Root:effective. Can you tell me, what is it that makes a community
Lucas Root:effective?
Zach Hammer:Yeah, so there's a couple of things that I'd say,
Zach Hammer:go into that, have you ever heard of? It's funny, I forget
Zach Hammer:the specifics of how this is described nearly every time I
Zach Hammer:describe it, but there's something called I believe the
Zach Hammer:one sentence copywriting course, if I recall, I think that's what
Zach Hammer:it's described as, have you heard of that concept before?
Lucas Root:No, but I mean, it makes sense. I get it, I think.
Zach Hammer:Yeah, fair enough. And I always forget the exact
Zach Hammer:specifics, even though it's just one sentence, like I said, I'm
Zach Hammer:not good at generally remembering, a script. But one
Zach Hammer:of the key ideas that they talked about is people will
Zach Hammer:always rally behind those who throw stones at their enemies
Zach Hammer:who excuse their mstakes, who basically like, there's a few
Zach Hammer:ideas here that if you could achieve those ideas in your
Zach Hammer:marketing and in your copywriting, then you align
Zach Hammer:yourself with a group of people. So if you understand who
Zach Hammer:somebody's enemies are, and help them to fight close enemies,
Zach Hammer:that's a great way to bring together a group of people that
Zach Hammer:all rally behind the common enemy, right? If you understand
Zach Hammer:the common troubles and strife that somebody goes through, and
Zach Hammer:you help them to get past that you help to lift them up out of
Zach Hammer:it, and you help them to understand that there are times
Zach Hammer:where there's a lot that stacked against you. And when you make
Zach Hammer:that clear, when you shine the light on it, you say, hey, there
Zach Hammer:is a lot of reason why you may not have been successful so far.
Zach Hammer:There's a lot of things that come into this, that hold you
Zach Hammer:back, that I want to help you get past that I want to help
Zach Hammer:enable you to move forward through. Those kinds of things
Zach Hammer:can actually really help to bring together a group of people
Zach Hammer:who have those same enemies, those same troubles, those same
Zach Hammer:kinds of goals. And bringing together people under that same
Zach Hammer:kind of direction is often to me what community is about, so it's
Zach Hammer:a group of people coming together, trying to move forward
Zach Hammer:in a pretty consistent direction. And as a result, they
Zach Hammer:have the same troubles enemies and those kinds of ideas.
Lucas Root:That sounds like a common purpose. And a project,
Lucas Root:right, because you're fighting a battle. And that's not just a
Lucas Root:purpose. That's a project. It's really making me think here and
Lucas Root:just out of curiosity, like how do you decide which stones to
Lucas Root:throw and which enemies to choose? Like, there are lots of
Lucas Root:different people that have enemies that want to fight a
Lucas Root:battle?
Zach Hammer:Yeah, I think the reality of that is that there's
Zach Hammer:a certain degree of introspection and experience
Zach Hammer:that comes into play on this, I think part of the reason why I
Zach Hammer:work with real estate professionals is because I've
Zach Hammer:worked in the real estate industry, like I have skin in
Zach Hammer:the game, I've seen the value that having a real estate agent
Zach Hammer:can bring to a transaction, and I can envision where the
Zach Hammer:problems come if you try and get rid of them completely, right.
Zach Hammer:And yet, there's also a balance here of, I try as much as
Zach Hammer:possible to be an unbiased person, I think it's nearly
Zach Hammer:impossible, but I try to be an unbiased person and so I also
Zach Hammer:admit the places where the real estate industry can be improved
Zach Hammer:and where we where we can adapt and can change and can grow. And
Zach Hammer:so looking at this idea of trying to be effective, brings
Zach Hammer:me to this point of trying to find that balance, of being able
Zach Hammer:to say, where are the real enemies? Where are the people
Zach Hammer:that we can look at that I feel like they have it wrong, the
Zach Hammer:people that are saying you are worthless, you are not valuable
Zach Hammer:anymore in the market. I think that's wrong. And yet still
Zach Hammer:looking at the criticism and trying to say, where is the
Zach Hammer:threat of truth in that too, though, right? Where are we
Zach Hammer:getting this wrong? Where can we improve? And where can we adapt?
Zach Hammer:And so in terms of finding those enemies, it's sort of wrestling
Zach Hammer:with those ideas of saying, Where do I believe that people
Zach Hammer:have it wrong? Maybe what are the elements that they have that
Zach Hammer:we need to adjust and adapt to? And then reinforce our marketing
Zach Hammer:and our vision for who we are as well.
Lucas Root:Awesome. And, again, you speak directly to real
Lucas Root:estate agents. But your community actually encompasses
Lucas Root:more than just real estate agents, your community is
Lucas Root:brokers and mortgage and software.
Zach Hammer:Correct.
Lucas Root:If you're picking a fight on behalf of the agents,
Lucas Root:how do these other people decide that they want to get involved?
Zach Hammer:It tends to be, companies and people that share
Zach Hammer:a similar vision. So if we're working with software companies,
Zach Hammer:the kind of software companies that tend to make sense, are the
Zach Hammer:software companies that are looking to equip agents, right?
Zach Hammer:If we're working with mortgage professionals, it's the same
Zach Hammer:thing. It's people who see the real estate transaction as more
Zach Hammer:than just their siloed part of the industry, they see it as a
Zach Hammer:bigger process that real estate professionals in general helping
Zach Hammer:people through. And so they need the help of the real estate
Zach Hammer:agent just as much as the real estate agent needs the help of
Zach Hammer:the mortgage professional. So it's everybody's business. The
Zach Hammer:concept of a rising tide raises all boats, they see the reality
Zach Hammer:of, we're all in this process together, how can we lift each
Zach Hammer:other up? At the same time, we're helping the real estate
Zach Hammer:agent ultimately helps the mortgage professional, and being
Zach Hammer:able to make an impact to the community through that symbiotic
Zach Hammer:relationship that happens there.
Lucas Root:Yeah, I love it, I get it. How did you end up in
Lucas Root:the role of being the community leader? I get the story, you're
Lucas Root:an entrepreneur, you're a horrible employee, you have some
Lucas Root:really great experience with helping people engage with the
Lucas Root:market. That's what marketing is. Right? Creating engagement.
Lucas Root:How did you end up being a community leader for this?T
Lucas Root:There are just so many other ways that you could have gone as
Lucas Root:an entrepreneur, but this is the one that drew you in?
Zach Hammer:Yeah. So I mean, it's a combination of things.
Zach Hammer:It's in the same way of saying, part of what I'm doing is
Zach Hammer:helping to throw stones at the enemies, right. So part of that
Zach Hammer:is that having been in the battle, having seen where the
Zach Hammer:industry is going, there's a little bit of like a personal
Zach Hammer:stake in this, I'm saying, I see the battle that we're facing,
Zach Hammer:and the question is, do I step up and try and enable this group
Zach Hammer:of people that I've seen value in? Do I step up and try and
Zach Hammer:help them? Or do I take my focus elsewhere? The basic idea of, if
Zach Hammer:not me, then who else right? Do I believe that there's somebody
Zach Hammer:else, that's better to help this industry. And there's a certain
Zach Hammer:degree of maybe hubris in this, but I think there are aspects
Zach Hammer:that I bring to the table, that I think I can help this group of
Zach Hammer:people, maybe better than they're currently being helped.
Zach Hammer:And so do I step up with that belief, saying, let's test that.
Zach Hammer:Let's see that, if that's the case, because I don't really
Zach Hammer:know until I try it, I don't really know until I try and help
Zach Hammer:this this community of people and see if I'm actually making a
Zach Hammer:meaningful difference. But I do have some inklings of why that's
Zach Hammer:the case. So the passion for the community itself, but further,
Zach Hammer:when I have had the opportunity to teach and train and kind of
Zach Hammer:rally around this community, I get the kind of feedback that
Zach Hammer:the stuff that I'm doing is making a real difference in
Zach Hammer:their life. And that's part of what continues to pull me back
Zach Hammer:into to keep helping.
Lucas Root:Amazing. I'm hearing a couple of different elements
Lucas Root:there. So because you were involved in it, you had some
Lucas Root:really significant success ahead of time. You had the language of
Lucas Root:the people that you're talking to, you already knew exactly how
Lucas Root:they want to be spoken to, you already knew exactly what to
Lucas Root:say, to capture their attention. You were doing that really well.
Lucas Root:So you have the language. You it's clear to me at least that
Lucas Root:you share a purpose, right? These guys are under attack. And
Lucas Root:I don't think they should be or maybe they should be, but I
Lucas Root:don't think that they should fail. Maybe they should be under
Lucas Root:attack, but they shouldn't fail. So that you have a shared
Lucas Root:purpose. And then it sounds to me, like there's some value to
Lucas Root:you in being the leader, which is similar to the value they
Lucas Root:get.
Zach Hammer:Right.
Lucas Root:Cool. Um, would you say that those three sort of
Lucas Root:elements are what makes an effective community leader? They
Lucas Root:have they have the language? They share the purpose, and they
Lucas Root:have have some shared value?
Zach Hammer:Yeah, I'd say, we're looking at kind of the
Zach Hammer:basic idea of, when is leadership effective? In the
Zach Hammer:sense of, I mean, have you ever heard the concept? A leader
Zach Hammer:requires followers, because otherwise, without a leader,
Zach Hammer:having followers, it's just a person going for a walk. Right?
Zach Hammer:You have to have people that you actually are influencing that
Zach Hammer:want to follow along with what you're saying. So yeah, I think
Zach Hammer:that you're exactly right. I think there has to be that
Zach Hammer:shared language, there has to be that shared purpose. Otherwise,
Zach Hammer:why would people follow you, if you're not taking them to where
Zach Hammer:they want to go? Right, and that's where I would say that
Zach Hammer:that purpose fits in. And yeah, being able to step back and look
Zach Hammer:and say, ultimately, a group of people working together to
Zach Hammer:achieve anything, they have to have that purpose, that shared
Zach Hammer:language, because yeah, things in the community, for it to be a
Zach Hammer:community, they have to be different than somewhere else.
Zach Hammer:Right. Otherwise, it's not a community otherwise, it's not
Zach Hammer:its own thing. It's just a group of people or something, there
Zach Hammer:has to be something different that sets it apart from, we're,
Zach Hammer:you know, I'm either part of the community or I'm not, right, and
Zach Hammer:those elements definitely add up to me to make the difference for
Zach Hammer:that. And in terms of, being able to just be a leader of a
Zach Hammer:community, understanding those things, having that common
Zach Hammer:alignment. Definitely makes sense. I think it's an
Zach Hammer:interesting thing. I don't think every community necessarily
Zach Hammer:needs a single leader. But it tends to be that unless somebody
Zach Hammer:decides to lead, nobody does. And you might get multiple
Zach Hammer:leaders at some point but yeah, community doesn't just happen on
Zach Hammer:its own, I think you have somebody who has a heart and a
Zach Hammer:passion to do something that kind of creates that vision and
Zach Hammer:other people as well.
Lucas Root:Now, you mentioned that you actually threw some
Lucas Root:stones to yourself. Do you believe that a community leader
Lucas Root:has to be there on the frontlines throwing some stones
Lucas Root:and fighting the enemy?
Zach Hammer:You know, I guess you don't necessarily have to I
Zach Hammer:think it's a lot harder, if you haven't. I think there might be
Zach Hammer:personality types that make a bit of a difference, like how
Zach Hammer:much empathy do you have for another person situation, I
Zach Hammer:think would make a lot of difference in that. So whether
Zach Hammer:or not you've participated in the battle yourself, if you can
Zach Hammer:put yourself in the shoes of another person that might allow
Zach Hammer:you to lead another community, if you don't have that personal
Zach Hammer:experience in the battle yourself, if that makes sense?
Zach Hammer:And I'd say there's probably a degree of that for me. So my
Zach Hammer:experience comes as being the marketing director, and yet I'm
Zach Hammer:not a real estate agent. So I'm not on the direct line of
Zach Hammer:actually doing real estate transactions, but I'm closer to
Zach Hammer:the community than say, some person who just chooses real
Zach Hammer:estate, because they think it's gonna make the most money or
Zach Hammer:something. And I've been involved on the frontlines and
Zach Hammer:that way directly working alongside the people who were
Zach Hammer:trying to do the deals, right. But yeah, I think it's not
Zach Hammer:necessary. I think it definitely helps. I think it's probably one
Zach Hammer:of the quickest ways to be able to develop that empathy and that
Zach Hammer:shared language and really be able to hone that in.
Lucas Root:Now I'm wondering, what would it look like to have
Lucas Root:an effective community with a leader or multiple leaders, that
Lucas Root:did not participate in the project, right. So fighting the
Lucas Root:enemy, I'm wondering what that would look like?
Zach Hammer:Let me let me put it this way. I think ultimately,
Zach Hammer:I don't know. I could be wrong. Cuz Yeah, same thing. I don't
Zach Hammer:know exactly what it would look like, I think you don't
Zach Hammer:necessarily have to come into the community, having already
Zach Hammer:fought the battle, if that makes sense. I don't think there's any
Zach Hammer:way around fighting the battle at some point, right? Like, if
Zach Hammer:you're gonna lead, you have to be part of whatever battle is
Zach Hammer:going on whatever the purpose is. Otherwise, what are you
Zach Hammer:doing, right? Like, if you don't have any level of caring about
Zach Hammer:the purpose, caring about the direction that you're going, if
Zach Hammer:it just doesn't matter to you, then yeah, I think you'd really
Zach Hammer:struggle to be able to lead and I think the way that you develop
Zach Hammer:that care is by participating, but what I would say is there's
Zach Hammer:a difference between you could come into a community not having
Zach Hammer:been part of that battle before and learn through the community.
Zach Hammer:And then over time, you develop that bond amongst your fellow
Zach Hammer:warriors or whatever, right, that inevitably would happen,
Zach Hammer:but you may come into it pretty green. And I think that's
Zach Hammer:possible. I think how readily you're able to adapt and grow
Zach Hammer:and learn through that scenario is probably going to be that
Zach Hammer:empathy, and how much you're actually participating as well.
Lucas Root:Yeah, I get it. Um, it sounds like we got a lot to
Lucas Root:talk about on sort of the project or the battle that the
Lucas Root:community engages in. Can you talk to me more about the
Lucas Root:battle, the project, the battle that real estate growth hackers
Lucas Root:engages in?
Zach Hammer:So one of the biggest things that I think
Zach Hammer:currently holds real estate agents back is that we're kind
Zach Hammer:of at the precipice, actually, we're already in the middle of a
Zach Hammer:major shift that's happening in real estate in general, right.
Zach Hammer:It's been going on for a while, it's hitting a bit of a
Zach Hammer:groundswell, I think in terms of the impact of it. And that shift
Zach Hammer:is the level of attention and tech that's coming into the real
Zach Hammer:estate space. Right. So before we had, like a Zillow in the
Zach Hammer:market, making real estate listings just readily available
Zach Hammer:to everybody in the US to be able to search through and find
Zach Hammer:on their own. Before that the real estate agent was the keeper
Zach Hammer:of this knowledge, like they have the secret knowledge, the
Zach Hammer:only way that you could get it was to go through the real
Zach Hammer:estate agent. And that isn't actually necessarily that great
Zach Hammer:of a thing.
Zach Hammer:Yeah, exactly. I think there's a lot of good that
Lucas Root:Like do a lot of driving.
Lucas Root:came from that information being democratized. If all that the
Lucas Root:value that you bring is that I have the list that you don't get
Lucas Root:to have outside of me, there's not a lot of value that's being
Lucas Root:brought there, right? And so there's a lot of good that I
Lucas Root:think, is come from some of this technology and information
Lucas Root:coming into play. But what we have is that there's a lot of
Lucas Root:other things that happen in real estate transaction, right,
Lucas Root:there's complexity in terms of making the decision of really
Lucas Root:what might be a good home or a good situation for a person.
Lucas Root:There's the complexity of dealing with like the finances
Lucas Root:of it, there's a lot that could go wrong still in terms of
Lucas Root:problems with the home that may be hard to detect or dealing
Lucas Root:with the negotiation process. Anyway, there's a lot of chaos
Lucas Root:that happens in a real estate transaction that people miss.
Lucas Root:And so bridging this gap of the market is starting to see, like
Lucas Root:my first thing that I deal with is just looking for homes. And I
Lucas Root:could do that without a real estate agent. I could go to
Lucas Root:Zillow, I could start finding homes that I think are a good option.
Lucas Root:I would argue and these days most people do.
Zach Hammer:Yeah. Oh, exactly. I mean, the average real estate
Zach Hammer:agent isn't being consulted, until the person has probably
Zach Hammer:already found the home that they either think that they want or
Zach Hammer:that they at least want to look at. That's the trend at this
Zach Hammer:point. And so what's happening is that I think people are
Zach Hammer:throwing the baby out with the bathwater, right? There is an
Zach Hammer:aspect of a real estate agents old job that isn't really all
Zach Hammer:that useful anymore. And they're missing the other parts where
Zach Hammer:the agent has been very valuable, which is kind of being
Zach Hammer:the wise counselor in this process of saying, okay, I
Zach Hammer:understand your goals. I understand your needs. Let's
Zach Hammer:make sure that the transaction that's happening for you
Zach Hammer:actually accomplishes those effectively for you, because
Zach Hammer:it's really hard for me do to do that, to be able to navigate
Zach Hammer:that right now at least. And so in terms of, like, where we
Zach Hammer:exist, and what what I'm doing is I'm trying to equip real
Zach Hammer:estate agents to be able to effectively market to find the
Zach Hammer:people in the current scenario, where they're not just getting
Zach Hammer:people coming to them automatically, because they
Zach Hammer:happen to have the Tome of knowledge, because that's gone.
Zach Hammer:So how do you find the people so you can still help them
Zach Hammer:effectively, ultimately, actually helping the consumer to
Zach Hammer:get a better end result than they would without the real
Zach Hammer:estate agent. And in order to do that, you need to up your game
Zach Hammer:on marketing, you used to not have to market so much. Now you
Zach Hammer:do. Now you need to be there on the front end, finding people
Zach Hammer:helping to get your message out there and influence them so that
Zach Hammer:they know that when the time is right, they do need to talk to
Zach Hammer:you in order to get the thing that they want, which is a
Zach Hammer:transaction that ends up with the home that they want with the
Zach Hammer:least amount of hassles and the least headache, they want that.
Zach Hammer:And everybody wants that. And as yet.
Zach Hammer:I want that.
Zach Hammer:Yeah, I haven't seen a better way to get there, then
Zach Hammer:leveraging the real estate agent and all of the technology that
Zach Hammer:comes into play hasn't really helped with that you still need
Zach Hammer:the person who can kind of sort through the chaos, that is a
Zach Hammer:real estate transaction to help you through that. And so we're
Zach Hammer:both helping a real estate agent to be able to achieve their
Zach Hammer:goals and dreams. But at the same time, I mentioned this at
Zach Hammer:the beginning, I believe all these things should be a win
Zach Hammer:win. If it's not what's best for the consumer, then I wouldn't
Zach Hammer:want to do it either. So it's ultimately got to be both good
Zach Hammer:for the real estate agent and for the consumer, in order to do
Zach Hammer:that, and so leveragingt echnology, leveraging good
Zach Hammer:marketing, in order to get that message out there to both help
Zach Hammer:the agents and help the consumers to ultimately have the
Zach Hammer:good end result is kind of what that process looks like.
Lucas Root:I love that. Yeah, that's exactly what I want. I
Lucas Root:want to go buy a house, I'm like, get me a real estate
Lucas Root:agent, right now, let's do this. Amazing.
Zach Hammer:There you go. And the key is so just like you
Zach Hammer:mentioned, not every real estate agent has that same view. Like
Zach Hammer:there are a lot of real estate agents who are still kind of in
Zach Hammer:the corner, grumbling about Zillow. And bemoaning days gone
Zach Hammer:by wishing that they were still in the situation where they
Zach Hammer:didn't have to think about some of these things, they're not
Zach Hammer:stepping up, they're not trying to better their service and make
Zach Hammer:sure that they're actually providing real value to the
Zach Hammer:consumer. So it's kind of, when when we talk about who is part
Zach Hammer:of this community, and who are we battling against, we're kind
Zach Hammer:of battling on both sides in a way, we're battling, there is
Zach Hammer:some really faulty belief that the real estate agent isn't
Zach Hammer:necessary. But from the industry itself, there's people who
Zach Hammer:believe that there's no value for the technology, either, that
Zach Hammer:I should just keep getting paid what I was getting paid before
Zach Hammer:for the same amount of work, even though what's available in
Zach Hammer:the market has drastically changed what a real estate agent
Zach Hammer:needs to provide in order to still be valuable, right?
Lucas Root:And the consumer.
Zach Hammer:Exactly. And I seek to work with people who have
Zach Hammer:that same vision of I realized that we need to be actually
Zach Hammer:providing something of value in order to justify getting paid
Zach Hammer:anything, right, as a real estate professional, I need to
Zach Hammer:provide something that's of real value to you the consumer,
Zach Hammer:right. And at the same time, being confident in the reality
Zach Hammer:of it's not like I've lost all my value because Zillow exists
Zach Hammer:because technology exists. Right? So where is that value?
Zach Hammer:And how do I communicate that? How do I find those people?
Lucas Root:I love it. Yeah. That's funny. Do you think all
Lucas Root:communities have a pinch? Like you do, where there's the old
Lucas Root:way of thinking, and there's a battle on that side. And then
Lucas Root:there's the sort of hyper minimalist, new way of thinking
Lucas Root:and a battle on that side, and you're sort of pinched.
Zach Hammer:You know, I don't I don't know if it would be all
Zach Hammer:communities or not, but I'd say probably the the way that humans
Zach Hammer:work, we tend to operate with that whole 50 Shades of Grey
Zach Hammer:sort of idea. So if you feel like there's somewhere in the
Zach Hammer:middle, that you feel like it's the right answer, then that
Zach Hammer:means that you're going to have people who are to the extremes
Zach Hammer:on either end. I mean, I guess what I would say is that the
Zach Hammer:communities that don't have that are probably at the very far
Zach Hammer:extreme of one after the other. But yeah, I think in general,
Zach Hammer:there's probably a some level of the old guard and the new guard
Zach Hammer:in a way, and that there's some blended between.
Lucas Root:That makes me think there's the sort of the pinch.
Lucas Root:So you talked about the battle, and I talked about the project.
Lucas Root:And I've equated those and I think we sort of agree. Is it
Lucas Root:appropriate to say that every community has more than one
Lucas Root:project?
Zach Hammer:I don't know, if every community has more than
Zach Hammer:one project. I guess it depends on how you define it. So going
Zach Hammer:with the battle, or like a war metaphor, if you have the
Zach Hammer:overall war being like the key objective, which might be you
Zach Hammer:have to come out of this thing, as unscathed as possible and
Zach Hammer:defeating the opponent, right. In that war, you're probably
Zach Hammer:going to have a number of skirmishes and, and individual
Zach Hammer:battles that actually take place along the path in the process to
Zach Hammer:get to that end result. So you might have, like you said,
Zach Hammer:multiple projects along the way that equate to that ultimate,
Zach Hammer:bigger picture that you're seeking to achieve. So I'd say,
Zach Hammer:almost definitely, you probably have multiple projects,
Zach Hammer:depending on depending on how you define it.
Lucas Root:You brought up some really great points that not
Lucas Root:just had me thinking now, but they're gonna have me thinking
Lucas Root:for a while, and I'm really looking forward to like, the way
Lucas Root:this all sort of comes together for me. So thank you very much.
Lucas Root:Um, is there something that I should have asked you but
Lucas Root:didn't?
Zach Hammer:Oh, I don't know. I think the way that these
Zach Hammer:conversations tend to go, for sake of how this works, I think
Zach Hammer:there are probably times where that happens, where somebody
Zach Hammer:has a key insight or a key idea that just doesn't naturally come
Zach Hammer:out through the source of the conversation. But I believe more
Zach Hammer:often than not, that whether it's the right way of believing
Zach Hammer:this, or whether it's just the way that I only know how to I
Zach Hammer:sort of trust the process and these kinds of things, if
Zach Hammer:something was important enough to come out, it's probably going
Zach Hammer:to come out if something wasn't a big enough thing.
Lucas Root:I'm similar.
Zach Hammer:Yeah, if something's a big enough deal,
Zach Hammer:that I feel like it really matters to the crux of this
Zach Hammer:conversation, then it's probably going to naturally come out, and
Zach Hammer:if not, it's either the refinement that happens over
Zach Hammer:time, or whatnot, just there's a fairly natural process to these
Zach Hammer:sorts of things of having the conversation and seeing what
Zach Hammer:services what comes up consistently, what doesn't. And
Zach Hammer:so, to answer your question, I don't have any specifics. I
Zach Hammer:don't have anything else that I would say, hey, you missed this
Zach Hammer:idea or something like that. I think the questions lead the
Zach Hammer:conversation in a good way for us to come to this with, at
Zach Hammer:least for me, especially, I didn't come to it with an
Zach Hammer:agenda, right. I just tried to authentically answer the
Zach Hammer:questions and dive into the conversation naturally. So, yeah
Zach Hammer:no, I don't have any other points that I think you should
Zach Hammer:ask.
Lucas Root:Actually, you just raised the point that I
Lucas Root:absolutely should have asked, and it was a fantastic one. Um,
Lucas Root:you just raised the point of trusting the process. And I'm
Lucas Root:wondering if we cycle back to what makes an effective
Lucas Root:community leader, if trusting the process is a necessary
Lucas Root:attribute to that community leader, someone who's willing to
Lucas Root:trust the process?
Zach Hammer:Yeah, I mean, shoot, to some extent, defining
Zach Hammer:that process and understanding if there is a process, it
Zach Hammer:probably matters right, in some communities, maybe they're just
Zach Hammer:understanding that there is a bit of a grinding that can
Zach Hammer:happen that may not feel good, always, but is necessary for the
Zach Hammer:forging of an idea and the refinement of thoughts and
Zach Hammer:processes that having people you know, yeah, I'd say there's some
Zach Hammer:good ideas there. So like as a for instance, no real estate
Zach Hammer:agent going to say, hey, I'm so glad that Zillow came into the
Zach Hammer:market and made my life 10 times harder. Like they're not gonna
Zach Hammer:say that and yet, there might be a few that would say that.
Lucas Root:Best remind me of you.
Zach Hammer:Yeah. But the reality is that that
Zach Hammer:uncomfortableness of what Zillow has done in the market is likely
Zach Hammer:what ultimately helps to refine the real estate profession to
Zach Hammer:step up and either either level up or get out. And so there's an
Zach Hammer:uncomfortableness there that is part of the process. That
Zach Hammer:inevitably as people grow as communities develop that that
Zach Hammer:grinding and that battle that happens is I think what refines
Zach Hammer:the community to be better over time. So, so yeah, and you're
Zach Hammer:right, I think there's a certain element of people, especially
Zach Hammer:today we sort of exist in a world where it's like, everybody
Zach Hammer:is constantly seeking to be perpetually happy. And I don't
Zach Hammer:think that's realistic. I don't think it's achievable to never
Zach Hammer:have downtimes, to I never have moments of uncomfortability,
Zach Hammer:where you're sometimes you're might be laboring through
Zach Hammer:something. And so yeah, trusting the process might be
Zach Hammer:understanding that and saying, like, there are gonna be times
Zach Hammer:in doing something that's worthwhile, where you have those
Zach Hammer:uncomfortable moments that make you question if it's worthwhile.
Zach Hammer:Or at least make you question if you are up to the challenge. So
Zach Hammer:yeah, I think there's probably more to trusting the process
Zach Hammer:than that. But that's at least what comes to mind. To me, I
Zach Hammer:think there is a there is some power in that, in knowing what
Zach Hammer:actually goes on in the work of community.
Lucas Root:Amazing. That was fantastic. Thank you. Is it
Lucas Root:common, does the community also have to trust the process?
Zach Hammer:You know, I think the way that I define it is that
Zach Hammer:the process is going to happen regardless. And if you don't
Zach Hammer:have a certain level of being comfortable with some of the
Zach Hammer:awkwardness of that process, the only thing that changes isn't
Zach Hammer:necessarily the end result of where things go ahead. As much
Zach Hammer:as how do you feel about it along the way, right. If you if
Zach Hammer:an expense.
Lucas Root:Good point, I mean, you pointed out, if you don't
Lucas Root:have followers, you're not a leader.
Zach Hammer:Right. Yeah. And so, I would say, having people
Zach Hammer:trust that, I guess, the way that I would describe that is
Zach Hammer:the bigger concept, of like, if real estate agents in my
Zach Hammer:community don't don't understand that things have changed for
Zach Hammer:consumers, right? Like, there is meaningful difference there that
Zach Hammer:might be uncomfortable for the agent. And if they don't
Zach Hammer:understand that, they have to now wrestle with that. And they
Zach Hammer:have to figure out how to deal with that. And that's part of
Zach Hammer:the process, then what's going to happen is the industry is
Zach Hammer:going to move on without them. And so I think you're right, I
Zach Hammer:think for a community to exist, for those agents to still be in
Zach Hammer:business for that to happen, then yeah, they have to trust
Zach Hammer:the process of trust that they're gonna have to work and
Zach Hammer:change, they're gonna have to develop, right? And so yeah, I'd
Zach Hammer:say, for the community to exist, I guess what I would say is kind
Zach Hammer:of looking at it from the bigger level of the people are still
Zach Hammer:going to exist, real estate is still going to happen. There's
Zach Hammer:the question of whether or not you're going to be part of it.
Zach Hammer:Right. And I say that would be we're sort of the process and
Zach Hammer:paying attention to it would matter, both from the community
Zach Hammer:and the leader perspective of if you're going to stay involved.
Zach Hammer:You you got to be part of that process. And you can't just bow
Zach Hammer:out.
Lucas Root:Amazing. Yeah, I agree. Thank you. I really
Lucas Root:appreciate you going down that road with me.
Zach Hammer:Yeah, you got it. It's interesting.
Lucas Root:So you sold me on on being a member of this group and
Lucas Root:I'm not even in real estate. Where do people find you?
Zach Hammer:Yeah, so our website is
Zach Hammer:RealEstateGrowthHackers.com, that's probably the best place
Zach Hammer:to dive in and see everything else we have a Facebook group, I
Zach Hammer:do lots of webinars, I send out emails and let people know what
Zach Hammer:we're up to. But RealEstateGrowthHackers.com is
Zach Hammer:gonna be the best place to start.
Lucas Root:Awesome. I hope everybody goes and checks you
Lucas Root:out. That an amazing conversation. Thank you so much.
Zach Hammer:You got it.
Lucas Root:Any parting words?
Lucas Root:Yeah, no, I'm excited to see what you're up to. I'm excited
Lucas Root:to develop this. I mean, the reality. I think about things
Lucas Root:largely through the aspect of marketing and in like getting a
Lucas Root:message out there. But as a general business process, one of
Lucas Root:the things that has always been very clear to me, is that the
Lucas Root:key work of any business is being able to develop some sort
Lucas Root:of tribe or some sort of community that rallies behind
Lucas Root:whatever you're up to, because if you can't do that, you don't
Lucas Root:have a business, right? You might have a product, you might
Lucas Root:make a few sales, but you don't have like a real business. There
Lucas Root:has to be a group of people who want what you are putting out,
Lucas Root:who want what you're up to, in order for this thing to continue
Lucas Root:to exist. And so, the work of community and community
Lucas Root:development, I think is at the heart of really any successful
Lucas Root:business and so I'm very interested to see what you learn
Lucas Root:and develop and grow and what sort of key insights come out of
Lucas Root:this process that you're going through of exploring community
Lucas Root:and exploring that concept because I think it is, just like
Lucas Root:I think real estate agents need to be adapting to the times and
Lucas Root:growing and leveling up I think those of us who want to continue
Lucas Root:to be successful in business and to grow and get to make a mark
Lucas Root:in the world through entrepreneurship and all that we
Lucas Root:need to do the same. We need to be looking at, are we doing
Lucas Root:these aspects right? Are we are we playing at the fundamentals
Lucas Root:of business correctly, and I think community is definitely
Lucas Root:core to that.
Lucas Root:Yeah, love it. And I could not agree more obviously. Zack
Lucas Root:Hammer, thank you so much for being on the show. I can't wait
Lucas Root:to have our next conversation.
Zach Hammer:Absolutely, me as well.
Lucas Root:Thank you for joining us this week on Elements
Lucas Root:of Community. Make sure to visit our website
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